HW division better now or in the 90s

[box03]

The Heavywieght division was at one time respected but now it seems to be more of a joke among the boxing experts. Is it the fact that the title changes hands so much anymore or is it that theres no premier american heavywieghts to cheer for. What made the 90s so much more exciting than now?

[McGrain]

The division is weak now.

There are no fighters as good as Lewis, Bowe, Hollyfield and even 90's Tyson would probably be undisputed no.1 now. He'd certainly be carrying as many straps as politics would allow.

[RUSKULL]

In the 90's you had a unified champion - until Bowe threw 2 belts in the can rather than face a fighter who defeated him in the Olympics named Lennox Lewis.

Then Lewis did his part to split the belts by taking step aside money from Don King so he wouldn't have to fight Byrd if I'm not mistaken.

Talent wise it's hard to judge today's HW's until they're retired. Many boxing fans hated Lewis until he retired, then they appreciated him. I rather wait for history to judge how strong or weak this current crop of HW's is............................

[RUSKULL]

The division is weak now.

There are no fighters as good as Lewis, Bowe, Hollyfield and even 90's Tyson would probably be undisputed no.1 now. He'd certainly be carrying as many straps as politics would allow.

:rofl .............and you expect people to take you seriously right?

[box03]

:rofl .............and you expect people to take you seriously right? Your telling me a 90s Tyson wouldnt beat Iggy or Maskaev, these guys would be another warm up fight before he thought Holyfield.

[McGrain]

:rofl .............and you expect people to take you seriously right?

Sure. Why not? My posts seem to form a denser core than emoticons/rhetorical (i'm guessing) questions and extended versions of "i don't know" which is the middling standard you've set in this thread.

[McGrain]

Your telling me a 90s Tyson wouldnt beat Iggy or Maskaev, these guys would be another warm up fight before he thought Holyfield.

I don't agree with that - these men would be legitimate challangers. But I do think that Tyson could blow both of those guys up or out.

[box03]

I don't agree with that - these men would be legitimate challangers. But I do think that Tyson could blow both of those guys up or out. Iggy was the same guy that had been knocked down by Ray Austin which the fight itself ended in a draw, Maskaev has been knocked out by guys who possesed average power. These guys are no better than Botha or Bruno.

[McGrain]

Iggy was the same guy that had been knocked down by Ray Austin which the fight itself ended in a draw, Maskaev has been knocked out by guys who possesed average power. These guys are no better than Botha or Bruno.

I think that I would list the something like: Bruno, Maskaev (we'll know more about him pretty soon, but I think he's underated), Iggy, Botha. But it's close. My point was more; the 90's version of Tyson would need to prepare properly for these guys or he could get found out. Treating them as warm ups wouldn't be wise.

[Lance_Uppercut]

The HW division is pretty weak. And boring.

[RUSKULL]

Your telling me a 90s Tyson wouldnt beat Iggy or Maskaev, these guys would be another warm up fight before he thought Holyfield.

90's Tyson would probably KO both Maskaev & Ibragimov but they aren't the best beltholders at the moment are they? In fact most people rate Chagaev or Peter number 2 with those guys a distant 4th & 5th.

[RUSKULL]

Sure. Why not? My posts seem to form a denser core than emoticons/rhetorical (i'm guessing) questions and extended versions of "i don't know" which is the middling standard you've set in this thread.

STFU :rofl

[mike464]

The HW division now is a joke. In the 90s we had Lewis, Tyson, Holy and Bowe.

[box03]

I think that I would list the something like: Bruno, Maskaev (we'll know more about him pretty soon, but I think he's underated), Iggy, Botha. But it's close. My point was more; the 90's version of Tyson would need to prepare properly for these guys or he could get found out. Treating them as warm ups wouldn't be wise. I understand point, but if Tyson was properly trained he should have no problem beating both Iggy and Maskaev.

[McGrain]

STFU :rofl

Deep. I feel refuted.

[McGrain]

I understand point, but if Tyson was properly trained he should have no problem beating both Iggy and Maskaev.

Properly prepared I would make him a heavy favourite over both, yes.

If he is stupid about it, Maskaev especially has the tools to cause him problems.

[RUSKULL]

Deep. I feel refuted.

Read my original post on how almost everyone hated on Lewis before he retired and now they sing his praises. History will judge this division better than you or I will - nuff said.

[McGrain]

Read my original post on how almost everyone hated on Lewis before he retired and now they sing his praises. History will judge this division better than you or I will - nuff said.

I'll pass on the re-read if that's ok.

I don't know quite what your understanding of history is, mine would be that it's happening now.

[RUSKULL]

I'll pass on the re-read if that's ok.

I don't know quite what your understanding of history is, mine would be that it's happening now.

No need for you to read any of my posts then asshole :good

[boxingcar]

The HW division now is a joke. In the 90s we had Lewis, Tyson, Holy and Bowe.

In other words
Bowe = Golota's bitch. (too bad golota was mentally unstable).
Who is golota? a reject and never was compared to a prospect such as Povetkin.

Just imagine , if a guy like golota can pull this shit against Bowe...imagine what a prime prospect would do to his sorry ass.

Lewis? Only had to fight 2 euro fighters in his career...
1rst one was Mavrovic (a guy he was never able to ko or hurt btw).

2nd and last one was Vitali. (in a fight he should've lost...but ended up winning because of a huge cut on vitali's face. but there's no denying that vitali was winning on points and better yet the guy could also take lennox's best punches...)...

Ever seen Lennox Lewis ' amateur record?
almost all his losses are against eastern euros. coincidence?

Today's era is not worse than the 90's...only difference is that now people are bitching a bit more cause americans are out of the picture.

it sure is different from ali's era too , in which eastern euros used to get banned from participating in the first place.

[box03]

In other words
Bowe = Golota's bitch. (too bad golota was mentally unstable).
Who is golota? a reject and never was compared to a prospect such as Povetkin.

Just imagine , if a guy like golota can pull this shit against Bowe...imagine what a prime prospect would do to his sorry ass.

Lewis? Only had to fight 2 euro fighters in his career...
1rst one was Mavrovic (a guy he was never able to ko or hurt btw).

2nd and last one was Vitali. (in a fight he should've lost...but ended up winning because of a huge cut on vitali's face. but there's no denying that vitali was winning on points and better yet the guy could also take lennox's best punches...)...

Ever seen Lennox Lewis ' amateur record?
almost all his losses are against eastern euros. coincidence?

Today's era is not worse than the 90's...only difference is that now people are bitching a bit more cause americans are out of the picture.

it sure is different from ali's era too , in which eastern euros used to get banned from participating in the first place. Im guessing you were either born or live in a European country.

[standing 8]

Your telling me a 90s Tyson wouldnt beat Iggy or Maskaev, these guys would be another warm up fight before he thought Holyfield.

The Tyson from the early 90's would, the Tyson from the mid to late part of the decade maybe.

[RUSKULL]

In other words
Bowe = Golota's bitch. (too bad golota was mentally unstable).
Who is golota? a reject and never was compared to a prospect such as Povetkin.

Just imagine , if a guy like golota can pull this shit against Bowe...imagine what a prime prospect would do to his sorry ass.

Lewis? Only had to fight 2 euro fighters in his career...
1rst one was Mavrovic (a guy he was never able to ko or hurt btw).

2nd and last one was Vitali. (in a fight he should've lost...but ended up winning because of a huge cut on vitali's face. but there's no denying that vitali was winning on points and better yet the guy could also take lennox's best punches...)...

Ever seen Lennox Lewis ' amateur record?
almost all his losses are against eastern euros. coincidence?

Today's era is not worse than the 90's...only difference is that now people are bitching a bit more cause americans are out of the picture.

it sure is different from ali's era too , in which eastern euros used to get banned from participating in the first place.

Some fair points there but a bit too extreme IMO. The fact is many boxing fans are turned off by the fact they can't call one guy champion anymore. That combined with the lack of decent American HW's tends to leave the American fans without a hero :yep

[RUSKULL]

Im guessing you were either born or live in a European country.

...........and why should that matter? My guess is you aren't European and neither were your ancestors so you have a hard time indentifing with any of the current beltholders. :D Did I touch a nerve?

[box03]

...........and why should that matter? My guess is you aren't European and neither were your ancestors so you have a hard time indentifing with any of the current beltholders. :D Did I touch a nerve? No, if you read his post its very pro European. Actually I would be happy to see Peter on top and you know that, I dont judge a fighter by where hes from. I judge the fighters I like by how they fight in the ring, I dislike Wlad because hes a cry baby who gets knocked down too much.

[Rumsfeld]

The Heavywieght division was at one time respected but now it seems to be more of a joke among the boxing experts. Is it the fact that the title changes hands so much anymore or is it that theres no premier american heavywieghts to cheer for. What made the 90s so much more exciting than now?

Better fighters, better personalities.

:smoke

[Fighting Weight]

Then Lewis did his part to split the belts by taking step aside money from Don King so he wouldn't have to fight Byrd if I'm not mistaken.


:patsch

Yeah, Lewis ducked Byrd, obviously :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch

[Fighting Weight]

I think that I would list the something like: Bruno, Maskaev (we'll know more about him pretty soon, but I think he's underated), Iggy, Botha. But it's close. My point was more; the 90's version of Tyson would need to prepare properly for these guys or he could get found out. Treating them as warm ups wouldn't be wise.

If Bruno were active right now he'd probably be undisputed, that's how shit the division is right now.

No way would any of the current belt-holders be able to take Bruno's arsenal, no way in hell.

[Rumsfeld]

:patsch

Yeah, Lewis ducked Byrd, obviously :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch

To a certain extent, he did. I don't believe Byrd would have beaten him, and I certainly don't believe he was afraid of Byrd, but he did avoid a fight with him, and deserved to be stripped of his title as such.

Byrd earned his shot after beating Mo Harris and David Tua in an eliminator tournament.

[AJAX]

FW,your an idiot! plain and simple

[Toopretty]

The 90s were better. Only if you are eastern euro you think todays heavyweights are just as good like the guys of that era. Everybody else knows these ABC 123 fighters now are not in the same league. Shit, I take a prime Golota over 99% of them.

[McGrain]

No way would any of the current belt-holders be able to take Bruno's arsenal, no way in hell.

Ibragimov would give him serious trouble IMO. Put it this way, Bruno would find his road to alphabelt less rocky post Lewis than he did in his own era.

[Cachibatches]

I don't really think this is an American vs Eastern Europe thing. The division is no good in the same way it was in the eighties, or the thirties, or even the Patterson era.

The future is Eastern Europe, and just wait until Wladdy, Chag, Povetkin, Sultan, Dimintrenko, and Boystsov are all fighting each other along with Peter, Haye, and Solis.

[boxingcar]

The 90s were better. Only if you are eastern euro you think todays heavyweights are just as good like the guys of that era. Everybody else knows these ABC 123 fighters now are not in the same league. Shit, I take a prime Golota over 99% of them.

The reality is that you're forced to take a "prime golota" against 99% of them because you realise that if a mental midget (or a "never was") guy such as Golota was able to dominate a guy like Bowe...

chances are , the more experimented and talented prospects of today would do the same or much better.

[El Bombasto]

better now, but not as popular, and it seems to be harder to get fights made today than it was back then

[semichin]

I agree with Ruskulls early post saying it is hard to judge them now till they are retired....I consider Lewis as closer to now than then..and he'd do fine

[Toopretty]

The reality is that you're forced to take a "prime golota" against 99% of them because you realise that if a mental midget (or a "never was") guy such as Golota was able to dominate a guy like Bowe...

chances are , the more experimented and talented prospects of today would do the same or much better.

Yeah he could box though..and didnt get starched by Corrie Sanders. as the other top guys.:nut:nut

[brooklyn1550]

1990s

[boxingcar]

Yeah he could box though..and didnt get starched by Corrie Sanders. as the other top guys.:nut:nut
still doesn't change the facts i've mentioned...
You know it.

[thesandman]

Today's era is not worse than the 90's...only difference is that now people are bitching a bit more cause americans are out of the picture.

it sure is different from ali's era too , in which eastern euros used to get banned from participating in the first place.

What a load of shit.

Todays division is worse simply because guys that could reach contender status ONLY in the 90's, when they were young and more in their prime - can now be beltholders.

Briggs. About 50% if that of the fighter he was. Became a belt holder in todays division.
Maskaev. Again, becomes a belt holder in todays division - not good enough to even get a title shot in the 90's.
McCall. STILL hanging around, is one of the many mandatories for the WBC.
Holy. Still around. Getting title shots now when clearly about half the fighter he was. Actually being given a chance to win.


Do I need to go on? the fact that guys when they were late 20's, early 30's werent good enough - can come back now, 10 years later, and be champions says it all really.

[box03]

What a load of shit.

Todays division is worse simply because guys that could reach contender status ONLY in the 90's, when they were young and more in their prime - can now be beltholders.

Briggs. About 50% if that of the fighter he was. Became a belt holder in todays division.
Maskaev. Again, becomes a belt holder in todays division - not good enough to even get a title shot in the 90's.
McCall. STILL hanging around, is one of the many mandatories for the WBC.
Holy. Still around. Getting title shots now when clearly about half the fighter he was. Actually being given a chance to win.


Do I need to go on? the fact that guys when they were late 20's, early 30's werent good enough - can come back now, 10 years later, and be champions says it all really. Well said, I guess everybody has there own opinion on todays era.

[Lacyace]

The reality is that you're forced to take a "prime golota" against 99% of them because you realise that if a mental midget (or a "never was") guy such as Golota was able to dominate a guy like Bowe...

chances are , the more experimented and talented prospects of today would do the same or much better.

Uh, a 280 pound boxer with asthma won a title in this era. Not to mention, he was never anything more than a contender in the 90s who won the championship in a robbery.

Edit - My mistake. I didn't see someone already acknowledged that.

And that logic is flawed btw.

Oh yeah, Maskaev won a belt in this division which is supposedly the best since the 80s! What a joke.

[thesandman]

Well said, I guess everybody has there own opinion on todays era.

My opinion is Wald is the only guy that you could pick up, and drop into the 90's, and would be anything more than a half decent contender.

All the rest would fall into the likes of being a Morrison, Ruddock, Mercer, etc type of fighter.

Guys like Bruno, Moorer etc, guys that had belts, would win the majority of times against the current crop of beltholders.

[box03]

My opinion is Wald is the only guy that you could pick up, and drop into the 90's, and would be anything more than a half decent contender.

All the rest would fall into the likes of being a Morrison, Ruddock, Mercer, etc type of fighter.

Guys like Bruno, Moorer etc, guys that had belts, would win the majority of times against the current crop of beltholders. I couldnt agree more with you, The top 10 of the 90s vs the top 10 of 2000s there really is no comparison

[boxingcar]

What a load of shit.

Todays division is worse simply because guys that could reach contender status ONLY in the 90's, when they were young and more in their prime - can now be beltholders.

Briggs. About 50% if that of the fighter he was. Became a belt holder in todays division.
Maskaev. Again, becomes a belt holder in todays division - not good enough to even get a title shot in the 90's.
McCall. STILL hanging around, is one of the many mandatories for the WBC.
Holy. Still around. Getting title shots now when clearly about half the fighter he was. Actually being given a chance to win.


Do I need to go on? the fact that guys when they were late 20's, early 30's werent good enough - can come back now, 10 years later, and be champions says it all really.

No , that's just you looking at the negative aspects of the situation. and ignoring the other side.
I can also point out some rather embarrassing facts about any divisions actually.

Let's talk about 85-90's era...
and you'll see that what you're saying was just as bad during that time too...

Gerry Cooney anyone? ("white hope"...more like no hoper of the time).
Gets tkoed by a past prime Foreman. The same guy...als gets beat by the likes of Holmes and spinks...(all were past their primes)... Tyson's win over spinks was just the icing on the cake to finish that guy's career.

and you come here and dare to talk about Holyfield?...as if it was some sort of unique situation...what's wrong with that?

you're forgetting Foreman in his 40's beating the much younger Moorer.
suddenly Holyfield's case doesn't seem too bad or unique doesn't it?...and that was in 94 btw.

and please don't make it sound as if Holyfield was the champ already...or as if he was totally dominating this division cause he isn't.


You talk about Maskaev...and yes i agree , but AGAIN...you're forgetting Foreman...
Guess what? Maskaev also beat rahman when he was younger.
you can't even have an excuse for rahman. (saying that he was past his prime like you did for Briggs for example)
and rahman (for what he's worth)
happens to be the guy who once owned Lennox Lewis.
(fluke or not , it happened).

[boxingcar]

My opinion is Wald is the only guy that you could pick up, and drop into the 90's, and would be anything more than a half decent contender..
because you're deluded

[boxingcar]

Oh yeah, Maskaev won a belt in this division which is supposedly the best since the 80s! What a joke.

look what foreman did in his 40's....the joke's on you.

[2smart4u]

:smoke The 90s were better but it was possibly better then any other era ! This era is much better then given credit for however ! :good

[box03]

look what foreman did in his 40's....the joke's on you. Foreman had a great chin and was still extremely powerful, the only great win he had between 87-97 was against Morrison who won practically every round until the 10th where he left his guard down and got caught. So other than that who did Big George beat that was any good in the 90s era, Wlad got caught by an old journeymen in sanders. Shit happens, even a great gets caught with a lucky punch here and there.

[box03]

I meant Moorer my bad.

[thesandman]

No , that's just you looking at the negative aspects of the situation. and ignoring the other side.
I can also point out some rather embarrassing facts about any divisions actually.

Let's talk about 85-90's era...
and you'll see that what you're saying was just as bad during that time too...

Gerry Cooney anyone? ("white hope"...more like no hoper of the time).
Gets tkoed by a past prime Foreman. The same guy...als gets beat by the likes of Holmes and spinks...(all were past their primes)... Tyson's win over spinks was just the icing on the cake to finish that guy's career.

Why are you talking about the 80's? they were shit too, and it took a Tyson to sort out the division. I never said the 80's were any good.



and you come here and dare to talk about Holyfield?...as if it was some sort of unique situation...what's wrong with that?

you're forgetting Foreman in his 40's beating the much younger Moorer.
suddenly Holyfield's case doesn't seem too bad or unique doesn't it?...and that was in 94 btw.

and please don't make it sound as if Holyfield was the champ already...or as if he was totally dominating this division cause he isn't.

I'm not forgetting Foreman at all. What he did was impressive. BUT - he lost badly to HOly. Got another shot at a blown up LHW - was losing badly, and landed a great punch when the guy got careless.

Awesome achievement, yes.

But a bit lucky, and George got his shot because of promotion, not results.

George then very quickly gave up fighting live bodies after that.


You talk about Maskaev...and yes i agree , but AGAIN...you're forgetting Foreman...
Guess what? Maskaev also beat rahman when he was younger.
you can't even have an excuse for rahman. (saying that he was past his prime like you did for Briggs for example)
and rahman (for what he's worth)
happens to be the guy who once owned Lennox Lewis.
(fluke or not , it happened).

That doesn't make any sense. Forget Foreman.

Maskaev is older now yes? late 30's? Is now a belt holder, and never could be previously.

Maskaev didn't make a comeback against tomato cans to get his shot. He's still considered an active fighter.

Foreman was a one off in the 90's. It was shocking because it was so unexpected.

the very fact that it's NOT so shocking any more, just shows how weak the current generation is. Why do you think so many guys from the 90's are coming back in their mid to late 30's, early 40's?

Because they've suddenly got better - or because there is less competition?

...because you're deluded

Whatever man. You're the one rambling about some form of anti-Eastern European conspiracy.

You don't have any facts or even logic to back up your arguments.

I don't care what colour or race anyone is in the heavyweight division.

I see a lot of guys that are out of shape, with poor technique, little power, and little determination.

No way in the world a fighter like Tony Thomson would be considered a genuine top 10 fighter in the 90's. No way known. Seems like a nice guy, tries hard, does the right thing - but he would have been a journeyman at best 15 years ago.

[hmi]

I don't think that we even have to ask this question. The HW division now is a joke. The belt holders don't even look fit.

[box03]

I don't think that we even have to ask this question. The HW division now is a joke. The belt holders don't even look fit. Its not always about how you look its how you perform in the ring, but the heavywieght division is a joke to me and most other fans.

[KobeIsGod]

I feel the 90's were clearly better at the top. Wlad is the only elite hw now despite his paperbag chin :yep Depth wise you could make an interesting argument, but the 90's was pretty stong all-around. That being said, there is clearly some anti-euro sentiment floating around.

[hmi]

box03, how you look affects how you perform. If you don't look fit (with obvious fats around the body), you don't expect them to be quick and to have good stamina. That's why I said they don't even look fit. Hence, you don't expect them to perform well.

[the_churn]

Prime Ray Mercer would have decent shot at demolishing any of today's beltholders. In my mind, this says a lot about HW boxing in this era.

[box03]

box03, how you look affects how you perform. If you don't look fit (with obvious fats around the body), you don't expect them to be quick and to have good stamina. That's why I said they don't even look fit. Hence, you don't expect them to perform well. I see what your saying, but I got a better body than half the top 10 Heavywieghts but there faster, stronger, and have more stamina than me. I would also put thousand down James toney would out run 90% of the posters on this site and would probably win, you cant judge a book by its cover.

[the_churn]

I see what your saying, but I got a better body than half the top 10 Heavywieghts but there faster, stronger, and have more stamina than me. I would also put thousand down James toney would out run 90% of the posters on this site and would probably win, you cant judge a book by its cover.

This is true. Look at Shannon Briggs v. past it Larry Holmes. Shannon may look great, but wouldn't stand a chance against even the Holmes that lost to Tyson.

[box03]

This is true. Look at Shannon Briggs v. past it Larry Holmes. Shannon may look great, but wouldn't stand a chance against even the Holmes that lost to Tyson. Briggs has a body of a greek statue but his stamina sucks, he cares more about looking good than actually performing good.

[KobeIsGod]

Prime Ray Mercer would have decent shot at demolishing any of today's beltholders. In my mind, this says a lot about HW boxing in this era.

Prime Ray Mercer gave Prime on near Prime Lennox all he could handle. Mercer was a beast and would give any hw fighter a tough fight. Granite chin, great jab, and good power. Unfortunately, his style does not lend itself to long careers.

[Rumsfeld]

:smoke The 90s were better but it was possibly better then any other era ! This era is much better then given credit for however ! :good

I agree with this.

The 90s were definitely better than the current era, but it's not the fairest of comparisons for the 90s might well have been the second best era in the division's history.

[the_churn]

Prime Ray Mercer gave Prime on near Prime Lennox all he could handle. Mercer was a beast and would give any hw fighter a tough fight. Granite chin, great jab, and good power. Unfortunately, his style does not lend itself to long careers.

I agree with all of that and think that his fight with Lennox was the best of Lennox's career. Mercer was just a tiny bit below the best of his era and probably born at the wrong time. Actually, I think that history will judge him more fairly as time goes by. That said, when a guy falling slightly short of ATG status would have had the ability (if transported in a time machine or some such nonsense) to dominate the next era handedly, it causes one to place the strength of the next division into question.

[box03]

I agree with this.

The 90s were definitely better than the current era, but it's not the fairest of comparisons for the 90s might well have been the second best era in the division's history. I myself believe there is no comparison between the two, I just did this thread to show a few posters on here that Im not the only one that thinks the Heavywieght division is weak nowadays.

[Rumsfeld]

I myself believe there is no comparison between the two, I just did this thread to show a few posters on here that Im not the only one that thinks the Heavywieght division is weak nowadays.

Well, I don't think it's quite as bad as many make it out to be, but given the 90s compariosn, yeah...it's weak.

[TheGreat]

90's by far, today's division is the weakest it's been since Marciano's era IMO

[boxingcar]

Why are you talking about the 80's? they were shit too, and it took a Tyson to sort out the division. I never said the 80's were any good.




I'm not forgetting Foreman at all. What he did was impressive. BUT - he lost badly to HOly. Got another shot at a blown up LHW - was losing badly, and landed a great punch when the guy got careless.

Awesome achievement, yes.

But a bit lucky, and George got his shot because of promotion, not results.

George then very quickly gave up fighting live bodies after that.



That doesn't make any sense. Forget Foreman.

Maskaev is older now yes? late 30's? Is now a belt holder, and never could be previously.

Maskaev didn't make a comeback against tomato cans to get his shot. He's still considered an active fighter.

Foreman was a one off in the 90's. It was shocking because it was so unexpected.

the very fact that it's NOT so shocking any more, just shows how weak the current generation is. Why do you think so many guys from the 90's are coming back in their mid to late 30's, early 40's?

Because they've suddenly got better - or because there is less competition?



Whatever man. You're the one rambling about some form of anti-Eastern European conspiracy.

You don't have any facts or even logic to back up your arguments.

I don't care what colour or race anyone is in the heavyweight division.

I see a lot of guys that are out of shape, with poor technique, little power, and little determination.

No way in the world a fighter like Tony Thomson would be considered a genuine top 10 fighter in the 90's. No way known. Seems like a nice guy, tries hard, does the right thing - but he would have been a journeyman at best 15 years ago.

Alright , i remember you now. (from the other forum).
I'll respond back to this since you took time to post several of your points on this subject...

In order..

1
I was also talking about the 80's (might as well do) since i get the feeling that you people believe that today's hw division is the worst ever...I was just giving an example.

2
Well yeah , Foreman lost to holyfield but i don't give a shit. The reason why i was talking about Foreman in the first place was to give another example of a + 40 fighter who was fighting against other top fighters. People come here and say "holyfield is even a contender at his age in this division" (or something like that).....Well , i guess history repeats itself doesn't it?.....Same shit , different time. It happened in the 90's too...

3
huh...Sorry but Foreman got to holyfield also because of "results". prior to his fight against holyfield george had something like 22 or 24 wins..5 of em took place in 1990....The point is , a past prime Foreman was able to pull that shit back then.....a past prime Holyfield? ...the guy already lost against the likes of Byrd , Toney & Donald. that was between 2002 and 2004....The point is , no matter "how shitty" this division is , it's not like granpas of boxing are putting on a rampage like foreman used to back in the 90's..but hey , maybe i'll eat my words if he'll ko Ibragimov.
but i'll tell you what , even "if" it actually happens...he sure was struggling to get there unlike Foreman in the so called "superior" era of the 90's....

4
you're asking me to forget Foreman?...I can't...we're talking about a guy who was in his 40's...people come here and talk about Holyfield and Maskaev as if their situation could ONLY be possible in 2007...(because it's too "weak")....So I HAVE to bring Foreman in the conversation...cause granpa foreman was doing even better in the so called "superior" 90's.

5
Yes Maskaev is older now. and YES , he's a belt holder and YES , he NEVER could previously. And ? It just proves that he was inconsistent but still capable. Guess what? That guy was tkoed by Tua in 97.
and where is Tua now?...and where's Maskaev?...Maskaev was also koed in only 2 rounds by Whitaker in 2001...big fucking deal , ibragimov tkoed Whitaker too...does that mean Iggy > whit > maskaev ?...or that Tua > Maskaev > Rahman > Lennox?...(even though tua lost against lennox and even though lennox won his rematch)...But you get the point....Maskaev being a champ in today's era is not an embarrassing thing nor an indication of the state of today's division....They gave the guy a chance to have a rematch against Rahman...call him an opportunist maybe...but whatever it was , Rahman couldn't beat the old man.
is that really an indication of how "poor" this division is?...
What does that tell about Lennox himself then? remember when he lost to that guy?...
No one's perfect... and again , i'll repeat this...no need to tell me that "rahman who fought against lennox was different or better"....cause Maskaev also beat Rahman in 99.


6
you're talking about all these guys coming back but that's where i'm losing you. You see , the difference is that they're not doing shit...However , Foreman was..and THAT was the big difference...Don't forget his major victory against Moorer in 94....which was just after his fight vs Holyfield and btw (prime holyfield couldn't finish the old man either).


Who's coming back?...
Tua? ...Guess what? he couldn't beat Byrd back then , what's he gonna do now?..you've seen him against lennox right?...too fucking small..a puncher's chance would save his ass against a guy like wlad...that's it. He's nothing special for today's standards...and the very same guy used to be very feared back in the 90's and was still in his prime when he fought lennox and Byrd....today?...he's not pulling a foreman that's for sure.

Byrd?...
recently defeated by wlad...and you can't even talk about being "past prime" cause he was also defeated by the same guy in 2000.

Rahman?...got fucked by maskaev again.

Golota? a mental midget... (who btw , had Bowe's number... and THAT was in the 90's...if it wasn't for his bullshit antics , he would've defeated that guy twice) who the fuck is golota today?...and how good is that guy prime for prime compared to the upcoming talent povetkin?..

OOhh but golota was part of the "superior 90's era"...

this message is getting too fucking long...
I wanted to point out some other details about all this but i'm not gonna write a fucking book here..

I just don't see it though..just tryign to compare and i don't see it.

Prime Bowe? wtf would he do to today's competition? the guy was already struggling against mental midget golota?

Prime Moorer vs today's competition?...i don't see that guy pulling the shit he used to get away with with today's guys...

Prime Morrison? nah....
Prime Mercer?...maybe..
Prime Lennox? yes.....however , technically speaking , wlad's got nothing to envy at this point in his career....

but i think Lennox would beat him cause wlad's chin is too fragile.

Prime for Prime though..(since we're talking about eras..)
for example , in a fight larry holmes vs wlad...i'd still pick wlad.
(& wlad's jab has nothing to be ashamed of when compared to Holmes)..

even though i'm saying all this...i don't even like the guy...(wlad that is)..i don't like him.

[Holmes' Jab]

The division is weak now.

There are no fighters as good as Lewis, Bowe, Hollyfield and even 90's Tyson would probably be undisputed no.1 now. He'd certainly be carrying as many straps as politics would allow.

Spot on. :yep

[boxingcar]

Spot on. :yep
wlad's jab > holmes' jab.

[sues2nd]

90s by FAR.

Hell even the journeymen were better back then.

There isnt a fighter alive right now who could take the 90s versions of Lewis, Holyfield and Bowe.

[sues2nd]

wlad's jab > holmes' jab.

Thats a joke right?

:huh

[boxingcar]

Thats a joke right?

:huh

it isn't. prove me that i'm wrong.
post some videos , compare or something...jab vs jab..

[boxingcar]

90s by FAR.

Hell even the journeymen were better back then.

There isnt a fighter alive right now who could take the 90s versions of Lewis, Holyfield and Bowe.

Riiight..but mental midget Golota could?
Morrison could?

where's the logic in that?

[Jack]

The 90's were better. This era is proabbly more competitive, however, the 90's had better fighters. They had at least 4 ATG's throughout.

Asking is this current era or the 19890's is a lot closer. There is a lot of parrallels between these two eras, which one really good fighter (Wlad and Holmes) and then a fair few good contenders.

[Fab2333]

the 90's fro sure, there was a plethora of grade A fighers.
2day there isnt even a recognized heavyweight champ of the world.