Who do you lads have ranked higher ATG? Hopkins or Mayweather [Archive]

Evil Rich

09-21-2009, 12:03 PM

Who the fuck says that ?? let me at'em :twisted:

Me :tong

I agree with you about the topic though, Floyd is on another level compared to B-Hop and I am a fan of both. Hell, there aren't many boxers I'm not a fan of (except M. Hatton) but I love to watch PBF as classless as he is out of the ring, he's so classy inside it and that's what I pay my money to see :good

noonan

09-21-2009, 12:10 PM

maybe add RJJ to this poll........

Diablo

09-21-2009, 12:22 PM

Hopkins and Calzaghe are of similar ATG status...they both spent much of their career defending a belt while the big fights passed them by until later in their careers.

Floyd and Pac rank higher.

Mazallan

09-21-2009, 12:22 PM

:huh If people class Joe Calzaghe as an 'ATG', then how the hell isn't Hopkins one!?

Calzaghe is an ATG domestic fighter but he is nothing on the world stage. Mayne if he had stepped into the ring against prime RJJ and B-Hop he would be considered differently, even if he lost those fights.

B-Hop had a superb career but he is not an ATG, maybe if he had gone out to really prove himself he could have been a great.

Mayweather has fought some great fighters and also picked some fights that really should not have happened when you consider the difference between himself and the opponent such as the Marquez and Hatton fights. If he fights maybe Cotto, Mosley then Williams he can be near top p4p ATG instead of a guy who gets his ATG status because he picked the fights that kept him endefeated.

Grant1

09-21-2009, 12:24 PM

Was robbed aginst Joe too :lol:

Let's see your scorecard :deal

kosaros

09-21-2009, 12:27 PM

Calzaghe is an ATG domestic fighter but he is nothing on the world stage. Mayne if he had stepped into the ring against prime RJJ and B-Hop he would be considered differently, even if he lost those fights.

B-Hop had a superb career but he is not an ATG, maybe if he had gone out to really prove himself he could have been a great.

Mayweather has fought some great fighters and also picked some fights that really should not have happened when you consider the difference between himself and the opponent such as the Marquez and Hatton fights. If he fights maybe Cotto, Mosley then Williams he can be near top p4p ATG instead of a guy who gets his ATG status because he picked the fights that kept him endefeated.

Trinidad, De La Hoya, Tarver, Pavlik, Winky, Johnson and Joppy are on his record, yet he hasn't proved himself, nor is he an ATG?

Lee Mc

09-21-2009, 12:28 PM

Let's see your scorecard :deal

Are people STILL moaning about that fight? :scaredas:

It was close... It could have gone to Calzaghe by 2 or 3, Hopkins by 1 or 2 or a draw.

Should have been a re-match but Calzaghe took the easy option in Jones Jr.

kosaros

09-21-2009, 12:30 PM

Let's see your scorecard :deal

Dan's scorecard:

1. Hopkins 10-8 Calzaghe
2. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
3. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
4. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
5. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
6. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
7. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
8. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
9. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
10. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
11. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
12. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe

Hopkins 120-107 Cazlaghe :yep

Boro chris

09-21-2009, 12:31 PM

Floyd. I hate to say it as his fight against Marquez was a disgrace but theres no denying his supreme talent.
As for Calzaghe and Hopkins, I think their borderline atg's. Maybe Joe falls just short. This whole atg, hof status is a bit geeky for my tastes anyway. I'd prefer to remember how the fighters actually were in the ring than harp on too much about their appropiate status.

essexboy

09-21-2009, 01:08 PM

Calzaghe is an ATG domestic fighter but he is nothing on the world stage. Mayne if he had stepped into the ring against prime RJJ and B-Hop he would be considered differently, even if he lost those fights.

B-Hop had a superb career but he is not an ATG, maybe if he had gone out to really prove himself he could have been a great.

Mayweather has fought some great fighters and also picked some fights that really should not have happened when you consider the difference between himself and the opponent such as the Marquez and Hatton fights. If he fights maybe Cotto, Mosley then Williams he can be near top p4p ATG instead of a guy who gets his ATG status because he picked the fights that kept him endefeated.

Im not sure I can think of one active fighter who has proved his greatness more than Hopkins, hes certainly done more than PBF. Hes a cast-iron ATG to me. His resume is phenomenal.

safc1990

09-21-2009, 01:13 PM

Dan's scorecard:

1. Hopkins 10-8 Calzaghe
2. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
3. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
4. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
5. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
6. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
7. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
8. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
9. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
10. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
11. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe
12. Hopkins 10-9 Calzaghe

Hopkins 120-107 Cazlaghe :yep

I thought that he scored them all 10-8. :patsch

Mazallan

09-21-2009, 01:18 PM

Trinidad, De La Hoya, Tarver, Pavlik, Winky, Johnson and Joppy are on his record, yet he hasn't proved himself, nor is he an ATG?

Tarver was never special.

Trinidad, Winky and Hoya were all far better at lower weight.

Pavlik? Who gives a shit about that win.

B-Hop has good wins but he is far from having really proved himself. He liked to pick on smaller fighters.

kosaros

09-21-2009, 01:25 PM

Tarver was never special.

Trinidad, Winky and Hoya were all far better at lower weight.

Pavlik? Who gives a shit about that win.

B-Hop has good wins but he is far from having really proved himself. He liked to pick on smaller fighters.

Could that same logic not be applied to Mayweather as well?

Tarver was a very good fighter, and Hopkins pretty much shut him out.

Pavlik was in many peoples P4P top 10 lists when the fight was made, again Hopkins pretty much shut him out - if you don't give a shit about that win, then which of Mayweathers don't you want to give a shit about - Hatton? Corrales? Judah?

threethirteen

09-21-2009, 01:27 PM

Hopkins. Ability, talent, commitment, longevity, length of reign, recovery from his later career losses, defeating Trinidad - who was favourite going in - beating Pavlik - who was favourite going in - beating Oscar for the first time anyone did convincingly. Who's Mayweather got?

Boro chris

09-21-2009, 01:31 PM

Trinidad, De La Hoya, Tarver, Pavlik, Winky, Johnson and Joppy are on his record, yet he hasn't proved himself, nor is he an ATG?

Trinidad was a decent win, Oscar was a farce of a fight,Tarver was decent as well,Pavlik was a great performance although KP's shortcomings are there for everyone to see (unless your from youngstown) Winky was a fat dwarf so thats meaningless, Johnson was fairly average at 160 but it was a masterclass from Hopkins and Joppy had been near ruined by Trinidad and was not particularly special to begin with.
I guess I have rather mixed feelings about him, superb fighter, at mw only the elites like SRR, Monzon and Hagler would be favoured to beat him imo. At LH the list of who I would favour over him grows substantiantly longer.
All this talk abou atg status depends on what your definition of atg really is. Mines rather cloudy and I don't often tend to give it much thought.

beecho1988

09-21-2009, 01:32 PM

Mayweather without a doubt

essexboy

09-21-2009, 01:32 PM

Tarver was never special.

Trinidad, Winky and Hoya were all far better at lower weight.

Pavlik? Who gives a shit about that win.

B-Hop has good wins but he is far from having really proved himself. He liked to pick on smaller fighters.

The wins against Johnson, Tarver and Pavlik should be counted in his favour. What the hell does 'who gives a shit about the Pavlik win' mean, why? Hopkins was underdog. Tarver was a top fighter when Hopkins met him. He gave a far younger fighter in Calzaghe one of his toughest fights. Trinidad, Winky and De la Hoya were all very good/great fighters, if they couldnt cope coming up they shouldnt have bothered. Not Hopkins problem.

essexboy

09-21-2009, 01:36 PM

Trinidad was a decent win, Oscar was a farce of a fight,Tarver was decent as well,Pavlik was a great performance although KP's shortcomings are there for everyone to see (unless your from youngstown) Winky was a fat dwarf so thats meaningless, Johnson was fairly average at 160 but it was a masterclass from Hopkins and Joppy had been near ruined by Trinidad and was not particularly special to begin with.
I guess I have rather mixed feelings about him, superb fighter, at mw only the elites like SRR, Monzon and Hagler would be favoured to beat him imo. At LH the list of who I would favour over him grows substantiantly longer.
All this talk abou atg status depends on what your definition of atg really is. Mines rather cloudy and I don't often tend to give it much thought.

ATG is your top hundred boxers ever. I thought that was the way everybody judged it.

Mazallan

09-21-2009, 01:39 PM

The wins against Johnson, Tarver and Pavlik should be counted in his favour. What the hell does 'who gives a shit about the Pavlik win' mean, why? Hopkins was underdog. Tarver was a top fighter when Hopkins met him. He gave a far younger fighter in Calzaghe one of his toughest fights. Trinidad, Winky and De la Hoya were all very good/great fighters, if they couldnt cope coming up they shouldnt have bothered. Not Hopkins problem.

Good point but I do not think he should be rated as an ATG. I am not saying he was not a very very good champion and very very good at what he needed to do but for me he jusat falls short.

Tarver for me was not great, he was a good fighter who had some style.

Pavlik was an hyped up white Jeff Lacy, decent but nothing to crow about.

Mayweather has some not too great names on his record but he worked his way up through the divisions. He couldhave fought a few more real class acts himself to underline his greatness.

I think both fighters will be rated high but both need a little more to be genuine ATG's. Mayweather still has age and ability on his side to sort it out. B-Hops time has passed.

Boro chris

09-21-2009, 01:48 PM

ATG is your top hundred boxers ever. I thought that was the way everybody judged it.

:rofl Your kidding?!
I wasn't aware there was an official way to do it.
I just try to follow my instinct. Duran,Ali,SRR....etc
You think of them and you automatically identify them as 'great'.
I think we are a bit too rigid in our efforts to define a boxers status. They're just oppinions and in no way official.
Also a bit misleading sometimes. Calzaghe is a divisive fighter but a lot of people think hes an atg, two of his biggest 'name' wins were at LH.
Few people outside hardcore boxing fans (and people of a certain age) can remember who John Conteh was but I can guarentee he would've absolutely kicked the shit out of Calzaghe and Hopkins at LH.

essexboy

09-21-2009, 01:56 PM

:rofl Your kidding?!
I wasn't aware there was an official way to do it.
I just try to follow my instinct. Duran,Ali,SRR....etc
You think of them and you automatically identify them as 'great'.
I think we are a bit too rigid in our efforts to define a boxers status. They're just oppinions and in no way official.
Also a bit misleading sometimes. Calzaghe is a divisive fighter but a lot of people think hes an atg, two of his biggest 'name' wins were at LH.
Few people outside hardcore boxing fans (and people of a certain age) can remember who John Conteh was but I can guarentee he would've absolutely kicked the shit out of Calzaghe and Hopkins at LH.

The overall problem with it is nobody does a top 100 so every time something like this crops up most people just say yeah so in your head theres probably about 200 or more guys you consider ATG's when it can only actually be a hundred. I know a few guys in the classic have done it but nobody else bothers, I've only done my top thirty personally so its all guesswork really. I dont think Calzaghe is an ATG but Hopkins is for me, Conteh was a terrific talent but didnt have the resume of Hopkins. Also Hopkins sparkling career at middleweight should be considered.

Boro chris

09-21-2009, 02:08 PM

The overall problem with it is nobody does a top 100 so every time something like this crops up most people just say yeah so in your head theres probably about 200 or more guys you consider ATG's when it can only actually be a hundred. I know a few guys in the classic have done it but nobody else bothers, I've only done my top thirty personally so its all guesswork really. I dont think Calzaghe is an ATG but Hopkins is for me, Conteh was a terrific talent but didnt have the resume of Hopkins. Also Hopkins sparkling career at middleweight should be considered.

I think Mcgrain once said that doing a p4p list was worse than filling out a tax return.:D

As for Conteh/Hopkins. This is the old Record vs Ability arguement. Hopkins clearly had the more succesful career but he clearly wasn't as talented as Conteh. I think thats why I'm not as concerned with records and status as some people are. I would obviously rate Hopkins higher in a top 100 p4p list.
Also Ken Buchanan, definately not an atg but probably a better boxer than some who are considered atg. Just depends really on how much importance you place on it.

brown bomber

09-21-2009, 04:28 PM

Mayweather ATG - one of the greatest.
Hopkins ATG- Run of the mill great.
Jones Jnr- One of the greatest.
Calzaghe- Greatest in Newbridge,.

Little Tyson

09-21-2009, 04:30 PM

Mayweather Jr is a certain ATG. Hopkins im unsure...

essexboy

09-21-2009, 04:35 PM

I cant believe what I'm hearing here, Hopkins' record pisses all over Jones and Mayweather's. The guys 44 years old and still competing at the top level. Hes a phenomenon. This is madness.

trotter

09-21-2009, 04:36 PM

Could that same logic not be applied to Mayweather as well?

There are similarities between them; neither has convincing signature wins

Floyd's best is against Hatton, but again, he beat a smaller guy

On talent alone Floyd is on another planet, but Floyd gets WAY too much credit for who he would beat 'on paper'. Until he does it in the ring against legitimate threats he's remaining some way off the status his skill could probably have gained him, IMO.

THE KNUCKLE

09-21-2009, 05:23 PM

Mayweather is the best boxer that has lived in my opinion,he makes world class operators look below average,...talent does what it can genius does what it must.

essexboy

09-21-2009, 05:25 PM

Mayweather is the best boxer that has lived in my opinion,he makes world class operators look below average,...talent does what it can genius does what it must.

Oh God :roll:....abandon thread.

trotter

09-21-2009, 05:29 PM

Mayweather is the best boxer that has lived in my opinion,he makes world class operators look below average,...talent does what it can genius does what it must.

Well, we'd be able to judge better if he'd fight some cunt of his own size, in their pomp

Hatton gave him enough heat and he was the smaller man, Judah gave him plenty, Castillo too

Not the record of the best ever, nowhere fucking near

Best win against Arturo Gatti?

Grant1

09-21-2009, 06:50 PM

Are people STILL moaning about that fight? :scaredas:

It was close... It could have gone to Calzaghe by 2 or 3, Hopkins by 1 or 2 or a draw.

Should have been a re-match but Calzaghe took the easy option in Jones Jr.

Yeah they are, the week after the fight something like 80% scored the fight to Joe in a poll.

Now the whole forum has changed it's mind.

kosaros

09-21-2009, 06:52 PM

Mayweather is the best boxer that has lived in my opinion,he makes world class operators look below average,...talent does what it can genius does what it must.

:patsch

TFFP

09-21-2009, 06:53 PM

Mayweather slightly.

I actually think there is not a great deal in it, it can only be a matter of a few places.

AndrewFFC

09-21-2009, 06:54 PM

Hopkins is hardly an ATG. He was a very good fighter but missed too many big fights.

:nono
The guy has had tons of big fights and beaten a fair few future Hall of Famers.

AndrewFFC

09-21-2009, 06:59 PM

I cant believe what I'm hearing here, Hopkins' record pisses all over Jones and Mayweather's. The guys 44 years old and still competing at the top level. Hes a phenomenon. This is madness.

This is Sparta!

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

essexboy

09-21-2009, 07:06 PM

This is Sparta!

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

:rofl
Thats what happens to those who disrespec the legend that is Hopkins.

:nono
The guy has had tons of big fights and beaten a fair few future Hall of Famers.

Thank you! :good

Dan684

09-21-2009, 07:13 PM

See people are having a few cheap shots at my expense here eh lads ????

kosaros

09-21-2009, 07:14 PM

See people are having a few cheap shots at my expense here eh lads ????

What are you talking about?

threethirteen

09-21-2009, 07:20 PM

Mayweather ATG - one of the greatest.
Hopkins ATG- Run of the mill great.
Jones Jnr- One of the greatest.
Calzaghe- Greatest in Newbridge,.

Jeff, you're a bright guy who knows his boxing, but seriously: Mayweather and Jones Jr?

The two have perpetrated the greatest smokescreen in modern boxing. While Hopkins took on the best available in his weightclass and unified his division against Trinidad, Mayweather and Jones have sought to pad their record with guys who never had a realistic chance of beating them.

Jones hadn't fought a truly difficult opponent between Toney and Griffin, who gave him fits before Jones was disqualified. From the impressive blow out return with Montell, he didn't fight a single guy who was anything like a 50-50 fight. He chose to fight Clinton Woods rather than face Tarver (who had thrashed Griffin easily for the vacated belts) and unify. He jumps to HW to fight the weakest HW champ around, wins and then, forced to fight Tarver, wins an unconvincing decision. We all know what happened in the rematch. Roy is not an ATG. He's an ATG talent with a sub-par resume. End of discussion.

Mayweather is diminishing his legacy with stupid fights like the one against Marquez. Add to that, that since his fights against Castillo he's not exactly picked the toughest fights or any fight where he's not at risk and you have another one who's hardly an ATG. He might be yet, but he doesn't seem to want it.

Hopkins is worth 100 of both of them. At least he's been in fights that might be competitive. He faced unbeaten guys like Calzaghe and Pavlik, after beating the reigning LHW champ in Tarver - coming back from two losses where he held Taylor close despite his engine at MW running dry.

threethirteen

09-21-2009, 07:23 PM

Well, we'd be able to judge better if he'd fight some cunt of his own size, in their pomp

Hatton gave him enough heat and he was the smaller man, Judah gave him plenty, Castillo too

Not the record of the best ever, nowhere fucking near

Best win against Arturo Gatti?

People listen to Mayweather's delusional diatribe, look at his abilities and ascribe greatness on that basis. He's a great fighter, but not an ATG - I'll only consider him that if he fights some guys that actually have some advantages against him or something to balance the match out - Cotto, Mosley, Pacquaio perhaps. Maybe a Paul Williams - someone that makes him answer some questions.

Dan684

09-21-2009, 07:33 PM

THE KNUCKLE

09-21-2009, 07:47 PM

Well, we'd be able to judge better if he'd fight some cunt of his own size, in their pomp

Hatton gave him enough heat and he was the smaller man, Judah gave him plenty, Castillo too

Not the record of the best ever, nowhere fucking near

Best win against Arturo Gatti?
WAS A WORLD CHAMPION IN HIS FIRST YEAR AS A PRO,HAS BEEN EVER SINCE,WHEN HE SMASHES PACMAN HE STILL WONT GET CREDIT BECAUSE HES SMALLER THAN MARQUEZ THATS HOW HE,L PROBABLY FIGHT MOSLEY 1ST,PS..HENRY COOPER GAVE ALI HEAT BUT GOT WHIPPED IN THE END UP:happy:happy:happy

Dan684

09-21-2009, 07:49 PM

Honestly can't beleive people are picking Hopkins here ?

He got beat by Calzaghe FFS :lol:

kosaros

09-21-2009, 07:53 PM

WAS A WORLD CHAMPION IN HIS FIRST YEAR AS A PRO,HAS BEEN EVER SINCE

Negative.

PS..HENRY COOPER GAVE ALI HEAT BUT GOT WHIPPED IN THE END UP:happy:happy:happy

Arguably losing on points (Castillo) is a lot different to getting put on your ass. If your going to use Ali as an example in this situation then pick Norton III :good

Grant1

09-21-2009, 08:05 PM

Honestly can't beleive people are picking Hopkins here ?

He got beat by Calzaghe FFS :lol:

:lol:

JonOli

09-21-2009, 10:11 PM

People listen to Mayweather's delusional diatribe, look at his abilities and ascribe greatness on that basis. He's a great fighter, but not an ATG - I'll only consider him that if he fights some guys that actually have some advantages against him or something to balance the match out - Cotto, Mosley, Pacquaio perhaps. Maybe a Paul Williams - someone that makes him answer some questions.

If Floyd beats Mosley you can bet it will just be discredited like the win over Oscar. Mosley was done etc... he looked terrible in the fight before Margo.

The winner of Cotto v Pac looks like the best fight to me.

As far as fighting smaller men goes, they can both be accused of such, with Hopkins only ever fighting two men out of his career weight and losing to one of them. Dawson destroyed the older version of Tarver too, twice.

FrochPascal

09-21-2009, 11:08 PM

Mayweather. Hopkins is overated in my view. Handled pretty comfortably by RJJ, Taylor loss x2, calzaghe beat him and we are left with those big name catchweight wins vs smaller fighters......

Lee Mc

09-22-2009, 03:52 AM

What is actually happening with B-Hop? Is he going to keep fighting on?

threethirteen

09-22-2009, 05:28 AM

3/13

Trinidad was a blown up Welter :good

What advantages would Cotto/Mosely/Pacquiao hold over Mayweather. Not arguing with you i'd just like to see because I see Floyd as holding advantages over everyone barring Williams who's now at Middle ???

Cotto - stronger, physically bigger (though i think he's an inch shorter) excellent timing against speed fighters

Mosley - as fast as Mayweather when punching, works constantly, better chin, much much stronger than Floyd - he'd wear down Floyd whenever the pretty boy tried to grapple

Pacquaio - much more explosive as a fighter, something Floyd's not really had to deal with

Floyd has advantages over tham of course, in general speed, footwork and defensive ability, but many just say he's unbeatable rather than looking at who he's fighting.

I think Mosley beats him because Floyd wouldn't be able to put a dent in him and hold him off. Eventually that body attack starts to get through.

i think Cotto could beat him, but would expect a close fight with Floyd winning on a boring decision, running for the last four rounds.

Pacquaio wins, I think. Fast, strong and explosive enough that Floyd won't be able to predict his attacks so easily.

Anyway, Trinidad had been fighting effectively at 154 and looked effective at MW - so i don't buy the "blown up welter" - certainly Floyd was fighting a blown up LWW in Hatton who had already been shown up as limited and vulnerable at the weight.

Lee Mc

09-22-2009, 05:46 AM

El Cepillo

09-22-2009, 07:13 AM

Hopkins is hardly an ATG. He was a very good fighter but missed too many big fights.

:nut

Mazallan

09-22-2009, 07:24 AM

:nut

Ok he had big fights but not against opponents that had a chance of beating him plus he lost to Calzaghe.

threethirteen

09-22-2009, 07:36 AM

I read recently that Teddy Atlas believes that Cotto is shot and that's why he failed to last the pace againt Clottey and had to change his tactics for the last 3 rounds.

I can see where he's coming from because the Margarito fight must have taken a lot out of him.

But does anyone else believe that Cotto is shot?

Atlas is good at providing colour commentary, but his opinion on fights and fighters is completely off a lot of the time. A shot fighter wouldn't have survived against Clottey, much less adapted and won. Cotto was fighting a much bigger man with a horrible injury, so changed tactics and won the fight. That's not shot - he was getting his punches off, defending himself and his reflexes were still there.

This, incidentally, is the same Atlas who has picked against Pacquaio in his last two fights, including against Hatton when it was obvious to any balanced viewer he was going to get thrashed.

robpalmer135

09-22-2009, 07:37 AM

mayweather is probably the greatest defensive fighter of all time.

El Cepillo

09-22-2009, 07:40 AM

Tarver was never special.

Trinidad, Winky and Hoya were all far better at lower weight.

Pavlik? Who gives a shit about that win.

B-Hop has good wins but he is far from having really proved himself. He liked to pick on smaller fighters.

Tarver was the legitimate Light-Heavyweight Champion. Pavlik was the legitimate Middleweight Champion and P4P elite. Not only did an aged Hopkins beat them, he took them to school in the most embarrassingly one-sided way possible.

Trinidad was an established, proven Middleweight title holder. Winky Wright's style was NOT built on size and weight advantages (and neither was Hopkins'). DLH was a good win nothing more than that...

So, to summarize; Hopkins' only losses were highly disputed and close decisions against P4P elite, either when he was green or old. He has a resume which includes dominant wins over champions and title holders like Wright, Johnson, Joppy, Holmes and Aquino. As well as contenders like Daniels, Echols and Eastman.

He made 20 succesful defenses of his middleweight title, became the first undisputed middleweight king since Hagler by destroying an undefeated Tito Trinidad (the betting favourite), defended that championship six times, stepped up to Light-Heavy to school the champion Tarver, then at age 43, he utterly dominated the undefeated middleweight king Kelly Pavlik - again the hot favourite.....

Hopkins has proved his greatness many MANY times over. :roll:

achillesthegreat

09-22-2009, 08:12 AM

I think it is foolish to rank X above Floyd. Floyd has never lost and gone through 5 weight classes. X has longevity but a solid peak beats that, BUT it's not impossible that Floyd also has longevity.

dan-b

09-22-2009, 08:17 AM

Lee Mc

09-22-2009, 08:20 AM

Would Floyd have been able to neogiate his way through 5 weight divisions if same-day weigh-ins had been in place?

El Cepillo

09-22-2009, 08:56 AM

For me, its Hopkins at the moment. Probably FMJ somewhere down the line though.

threethirteen

09-22-2009, 11:05 AM

mayweather is probably the greatest defensive fighter of all time.

Better than Whitaker?

Lee Mc

09-22-2009, 11:08 AM

Better than Whitaker?

Better than Pep? :shock:

achillesthegreat

09-22-2009, 11:50 AM

Would Floyd have been able to neogiate his way through 5 weight divisions if same-day weigh-ins had been in place?

Absolutely. He is one of the few fighters in the modern era who could. Floyd lost 6 pounds for Chavez and felt weight drained and left the division. Floyd lost $600k rather than 2 pounds on the day of the fight. That is how serious he is about not draining himself. Floyd's weight is Floyd's weight. This is what history has shown at least.

threethirteen

09-22-2009, 11:54 AM

I never saw Pep, bar a couple of grainy old clips, so I think it's unfair to judge on that criteria. But I have a lot of Whitaker's fights and he's miles ahead of Floyd. he's another WW I'd have picked to beat Floydo.

Dan684

09-22-2009, 11:59 AM

ThreeThirteen all the good work you did explaining advantages they had over Floyd went completely out of the window when you tried to claim that all 3 of Pac, Mosely and Cotto would beat Floyd :-(

rusticraver

09-22-2009, 12:12 PM

Mayweather is a frustration more than an ATG...

Hall of fame lightweight and not much else as it stands. His career 135+ is an illusion

essexboy

09-22-2009, 12:26 PM

Tarver was the legitimate Light-Heavyweight Champion. Pavlik was the legitimate Middleweight Champion and P4P elite. Not only did an aged Hopkins beat them, he took them to school in the most embarrassingly one-sided way possible.

Trinidad was an established, proven Middleweight title holder. Winky Wright's style was NOT built on size and weight advantages (and neither was Hopkins'). DLH was a good win nothing more than that...

So, to summarize; Hopkins' only losses were highly disputed and close decisions against P4P elite, either when he was green or old. He has a resume which includes dominant wins over champions and title holders like Wright, Johnson, Joppy, Holmes and Aquino. As well as contenders like Daniels, Echols and Eastman.

He made 20 succesful defenses of his middleweight title, became the first undisputed middleweight king since Hagler by destroying an undefeated Tito Trinidad (the betting favourite), defended that championship six times, stepped up to Light-Heavy to school the champion Tarver, then at age 43, he utterly dominated the undefeated middleweight king Kelly Pavlik - again the hot favourite.....

Hopkins has proved his greatness many MANY times over. :roll:

Indeed he has some people refuse to recognise though, God only knows why, his record stands out over almost all the elite active fighters today. Hes an ATG for sure.

Bill Butcher

09-22-2009, 03:51 PM

Mayweather.

5 weight champ, never came up against a style he couldnt best & is plain & simply a better boxer than Hopkins.

Asterion

09-22-2009, 04:46 PM

Mayweather slightly.

threethirteen

09-22-2009, 05:17 PM

ThreeThirteen all the good work you did explaining advantages they had over Floyd went completely out of the window when you tried to claim that all 3 of Pac, Mosely and Cotto would beat Floyd :-(

You misread - I said I think Mosley would, and that while Cotto could, i see him losing a decision. I believe Pac has an excellent chance because of his explosiveness. It's more ridiculous to say, on the evidence of beating a fat, slow, old Marquez, that Floyd is somehow invincible.

threethirteen

09-22-2009, 05:19 PM

Mayweather is a frustration more than an ATG...

Hall of fame lightweight and not much else as it stands. His career 135+ is an illusion

I don't see how people can even argue he's an ATG because of this. What has he actually done that's particularly impressive above 135?

Mosley is far superior because he's continued looking for challenges ever since he left 135.

PrideOfWales

09-22-2009, 05:23 PM

Calzaghe- Greatest in Newbridge,.

You've never seen me box then.

PrideOfWales

09-22-2009, 05:28 PM

I appreciate Hopkins - he's very clever and uses everything within his power to find ways to outsmart his opponent. But I am staggered by Mayweather. He's an absolute fighting genius with far more strings to his bow.

Bill Butcher

09-23-2009, 11:43 AM

duranimal

09-23-2009, 01:20 PM

Trinidad, De La Hoya, Tarver, Pavlik, Winky, Johnson and Joppy are on his record, yet he hasn't proved himself, nor is he an ATG?

Yer beat me 2 it, B-Hop Undisputed 160 CHAMP, demolished TiTo, schools Tarver (Univerally acknowleged Lt/Heavyweight boss & Pavlik Universally Acknowleged Middleweight boss) & at his ripe old age of 40+ something:smoke & who's floyd been in with lately:think

Marquez.....disgracefull match-up
Hatton.......Limited euro world champ
DLH...........past sell by date
Baldimir......Limited brawler
Judah........Erratic underacheiver
Gatti.........past sell by date
Pacquiao....another midgit

No contest, it's B-Hop all the way until Money fights someone his own size & dominates a division + he's avoided all the bad bastards at WW to date:deal

JonOli

09-28-2009, 12:08 AM

No contest, it's B-Hop all the way until Money fights someone his own size

How many people above his career weightclass has Bernard ever beat?

Sarah

09-28-2009, 04:13 AM

Very good thread, it's close and I can't make a decision on it. Sure Floyd has gone through the weight classes but he's never unified a division and hasn't cleaned a division out since 130. What Floyd does now, at 147, will decide just how high he ranks. Wins over Mosley, Pac and perhaps a Williams or Cotto will see him eclipse Hopkins.

Don't delude yourself fanboy Hopkins isn't in Floyds league P4P. Hopkins spent most of his career beating guys smaller than him to make a name for himself, was ultimately beaten by Taylor , went up & beat a tailor made Tarver, got outworked and tried cheating versus Calzaghe, again fought smaller guys out of their prime weight classes in Winky/Pavlik before consistently ducking Dawson whilst chasing a 1 dimensional Adamek.

dan-b

09-28-2009, 05:10 AM

Don't delude yourself fanboy Hopkins isn't in Floyds league P4P. Hopkins spent most of his career beating guys smaller than him to make a name for himself, was ultimately beaten by Taylor , went up & beat a tailor made Tarver, got outworked and tried cheating versus Calzaghe, again fought smaller guys out of their prime weight classes in Winky/Pavlik before consistently ducking Dawson whilst chasing a 1 dimensional Adamek.

You're developing a bit of an obsession with me aren't you? Desperate, attention seeking girls from forums don't float my boat. Maybe you should give Zelenoff a shout.

'Ben'

09-28-2009, 07:05 AM

I voted for Hopkins because I'm sick of Floyd and hid cherrypicking ways. Maybe he deserved Marquez because if his ring inactivity but he still shows no sign that he will fight an ellite welterweight when it's the hottest division in the world right now with out a doubt!

I also think Hopkins has beat better the opposition.... Wright, Tarver (masterclass) Pavlik, De la Hoya (not his best weight, but still a world champ at middle) Trinidad and Glen Johnson who he knocked out!

Compare that to Floyds and Hopkins does it for me. No doubt being a five weight world champion is very impressive and was quite frankly incredible at super feather and lightweight in which he beat all challlengers who were very tough.... like Corrales, Hernandez and Castillo.... but since then has cherrypicked his way through the weights not fighting ONE elite welterweight along the way! a washed up Judah who got beat by Baldimor don't count.... neither does Baldimor for that matter!