Roughly Were Would You Put Floyd Mayweather Jr In A/Your ATG List, at this stage?

[cotto20]

well??????????

[Flea Man]

Hey guys BoxingGlove1 sends private messages to try and intimidate you if you don't agree with him. Swell guy :rofl

[WhataRock]

Better watch out flea...You might get an e-mugging.

Maybe top 50...40-45. I dont know anymore with those lists, its near impossbile to make a definitive one were you are being completely consistent with your criteria..especially a top 100 and even a top 50.

[cotto20]

Hey guys BoxingGlove1 sends private messages to try and intimidate you if you don't agree with him. Swell guy :rofl

right :huh

[Flea Man]

Better watch out flea...You might get an e-mugging.

Maybe top 50...40-45. I dont know anymore with those lists, its near impossbile to make a definitive one were you are being completely consistent with your criteria..especially a top 100 and even a top 50.

Tha's how I feel. I have Floyd probably around the 50 mark at the moment, some seriously good uncriticisable (word?) wins and he could see himself move up significantly. He has the skills.

[cotto20]

Better watch out flea...You might get an e-mugging.

Maybe top 50...40-45. I dont know anymore with those lists, its near impossbile to make a definitive one were you are being completely consistent with your criteria..especially a top 100 and even a top 50.

would you rate him higher than Conn, Burley and Basilo? out of interest?

[Flea Man]

Basilio definitely higher.

[cotto20]

Basilio definitely higher.

reasons???????

[WhataRock]

would you rate him higher than Conn, Burley and Basilo? out of interest?


I dont think so no...Maybe Conn is just outside my 50 though. I definitely have Burley higher but the others I cant remember and without thinking about it to much if they are behind Money it either wouldnt be far or maybe I need to reconsider it.

[Flea Man]

I would say the win over Ray Robinson at Middle was pretty big. Also fought tough opposition throughout his career, and although doesn't have the slick skillset Floyd has, had an ATG chin and a Helluva offensive game.

I hope Floyd DOES step it up; with wins over Mosley and Pac he could start using the talent he has. But I do think he's one of the most seriously bad cherry pickers I have ever seen.

[Flea Man]

I probab;y have Basilio at about 40-45. Note that I don't rate any fighters that I haven't seen a substantial amount of footage of.

I HAVE done a list before where I included fighters that had fantastic resumes even if I hadn't seen them and I think it was;

1) Ray Robinson
2) Harry Greb
3) Sam Langford
4) Roberto Duran
5) Ezzard Charles
6) Muhammad Ali


That's all I can really recall. Might have to try again, but as WhatARock says, every day you remember something else or learn a new tidbit of information that makes one or two places uncertain; then you just get a headache over it and put it to one side, I can usually fathom what 'bracket' I will put a fighter if I am given an example.

As per the original question, I have Floyd around the 50-60 mark.

[Flea Man]

Left out Henry Armstrong! See these lists are murder, especially just before bed.

[cotto20]

Left out Henry Armstrong! See these lists are murder, especially just before bed.
:lol::lol:

[ripcity]

In terms of Talent/Ability he is as good as they come. In the terms of acomplishments that we seem to hold everyone else to there may be even less who have acheived more than Mayweather. His compotition has been very good but could be better. He will have to fight at 154 and above for that to happen. Only Mosley at 147 realy has the tools to serously chalege him. Williams maby. With the Marquz win he should be inside the top 10 or just out side of it.

[cotto20]

In terms of Talent/Ability he is as good as they come. In the terms of acomplishments that we seem to hold everyone else to there may be even less who have acheived more than Mayweather. His compotition has been very good but could be better. He will have to fight at 154 and above for that to happen. Only Mosley at 147 realy has the tools to serously chalege him. Williams maby. With the Marquz win he should be inside the top 10 or just out side of it.

Wow very bold statement! and i really don't know about top 10

[WhataRock]

A very bizarre statement...I cant possibly see an argument for it.

[PowerPuncher]

I would say the win over Ray Robinson at Middle was pretty big. Also fought tough opposition throughout his career, and although doesn't have the slick skillset Floyd has, had an ATG chin and a Helluva offensive game.

I hope Floyd DOES step it up; with wins over Mosley and Pac he could start using the talent he has. But I do think he's one of the most seriously bad cherry pickers I have ever seen.

Ray Robinson wasnt quite Ray then, old, faded and fighting for the money, and nowhere near as dominant

As for the question I'd probably rate Floyd below Burley who I rate very highly and probably below Conn who I also highly rate but thats debatable and above the less dominant Basilo.

Its easier to compare Floyd to fighters around his weight class and in mind of that I rate him above Chavez, Ortiz and Arguello but below Whitaker and Duran. And controversally I think he's better than Armstrong

[Gesta]

In terms of Talent/Ability he is as good as they come. In the terms of acomplishments that we seem to hold everyone else to there may be even less who have acheived more than Mayweather. His compotition has been very good but could be better. He will have to fight at 154 and above for that to happen. Only Mosley at 147 realy has the tools to serously chalege him. Williams maby. With the Marquz win he should be inside the top 10 or just out side of it.


I think you forgot an extra 0.

[Sweet Pea]

In the 50-60 range, probably. The Marquez win did absolutely nothing for his standing. If anything I lost even more respect for him based on that performance.

[PbP Bacon]

well??????????


No comments... but, I still hope Gayweather will be trashed some day :hey

[JudgeDredd]

just inside top 100

[Flea Man]

Ray Robinson wasnt quite Ray then, old, faded and fighting for the money, and nowhere near as dominant

As for the question I'd probably rate Floyd below Burley who I rate very highly and probably below Conn who I also highly rate but thats debatable and above the less dominant Basilo.

Its easier to compare Floyd to fighters around his weight class and in mind of that I rate him above Chavez, Ortiz and Arguello but below Whitaker and Duran. And controversally I think he's better than Armstrong

Floyd is not above Arguello, Chavez or Ortiz base on resume, and they are equally talented in different ways. Terrible nuthugging.

[JudgeDredd]

No way is Mayweather above Arguello, Ortiz or Chavez, he's got to do a whole lot more before he gets that accolade

[natonic]

Ray Robinson wasnt quite Ray then, old, faded and fighting for the money, and nowhere near as dominant

As for the question I'd probably rate Floyd below Burley who I rate very highly and probably below Conn who I also highly rate but thats debatable and above the less dominant Basilo.

Its easier to compare Floyd to fighters around his weight class and in mind of that I rate him above Chavez, Ortiz and Arguello but below Whitaker and Duran. And controversally I think he's better than Armstrong

Mayweather needs to quit cherry picking from lower weight classes. He's a great fighter, no doubt. Rate him above Chavez, Ortiz, Arguello? Nah, get back to me when he beats top quality opposition (Mosely, Williams) in his own weight class.

[Ezzard]

Skill levels he's as good as anyone. Resume, not that great in comparison to the cream. BUT his style should allow him to fight for quite a while yet.

[Sweet Pea]

Even if we were basing it solely on skills, I think he's terribly overrated and still wouldn't rate him among the best I've ever seen.

[Flea Man]

IMO, the whole hit-and-not-be-hit shtick that he displayed against Marquez the other day was exactly what Roy Jones was criticised for at Light-Heavy against overmatched opponents. Only Roy did it better. Floyd's punch output is still poor. The shoulder roll looks terrific but I wonder how easy he'd find it if say, he were fighting Pipino Cuevas.

People ae overlooking the decent but not fantastic standard of his opponents. I currently rank him around the same place as Pryor. Talented no doubt but a thin resume. Pryor IMO is still more impressive on film. And no amount of weight hopping from Floyd is going to change my opinion of him, I'd rather see him face some opponents who can genuinely test him.

Now Floyd's triumphant return has got everyone talking let's see if he steps up to the plate and fights his most dangerous foe at 147. Unlike Michalewski (spelling?) at 175 Mosley can actually be made.

[cotto20]

IMO, the whole hit-and-not-be-hit shtick that he displayed against Marquez the other day was exactly what Roy Jones was criticised for at Light-Heavy against overmatched opponents. Only Roy did it better. Floyd's punch output is still poor. The shoulder roll looks terrific but I wonder how easy he'd find it if say, he were fighting Pipino Cuevas.

People ae overlooking the decent but not fantastic standard of his opponents. I currently rank him around the same place as Pryor. Talented no doubt but a thin resume. Pryor IMO is still more impressive on film. And no amount of weight hopping from Floyd is going to change my opinion of him, I'd rather see him face some opponents who can genuinely test him.

Now Floyd's triumphant return has got everyone talking let's see if he steps up to the plate and fights his most dangerous foe at 147. Unlike Michalewski (spelling?) at 175 Mosley can actually be made.

To be honest i dont think Cuevas could get near floyd.

[Sweet Pea]

To be honest i dont think Cuevas could get near floyd.
I agree. Floyd would never sign the contract.

[cotto20]

I agree. Floyd would never sign the contract.

I don't think Floyd would be scared of Cuevas........

[Shake]

I suspect you underestimate Cuevas. He would hurt Floyd terribly -- wether he'd win is a seperate issue entirely, as Cuevas is susceptible to counter-shots, but his heavy hands would hurt Floyd even over a guard.

Cuevas would press the issue, and Floyd would have to knock him out.

[Flea Man]

No, there's no doubt that Floyd would never step up to fight someone like Cuevas. Basically he won't fight anyone who is dangerous. I can see him fighting Berto rather than Mosley, and Spinks at 154 rather than Pac/Cotto.


Floyd DOES coast at times. He'll go back to the ropes and allow his opponents to throw a flurry, smile, and take it back to centre ring again.

This wouldn't work the first time he tried it against Cuevas. Cuevas isn't Margarito (who Floyd would've outmanouvered easily IMO) and he would smash Floyd to bits. Literally.

[smitty_son408]

40-48 range. Terrific skill-set needs a few more wins against stiffer comp to prove his worth though.

Floyd would box circles around Cueves on his best night.

[PowerPuncher]

Floyd is not above Arguello, Chavez or Ortiz base on resume, and they are equally talented in different ways. Terrible nuthugging.

No nuhugging about it, rather Chavez, Arguello and Ortiz get the rose tinted glasses treatment. Floyd is more impressive on film, more dominant and his resume gets underrated in comparison to these 3, which I won't bother to debate as some minds aren't affected by logical debate

[Flea Man]

No nuhugging about it, rather Chavez, Arguello and Ortiz get the rose tinted glasses treatment. Floyd is more impressive on film, more dominant and his resume gets underrated in comparison to these 3, which I won't bother to debate as some minds aren't affected by logical debate


Yeah, YOURS.

[PowerPuncher]

No, there's no doubt that Floyd would never step up to fight someone like Cuevas. Basically he won't fight anyone who is dangerous. I can see him fighting Berto rather than Mosley, and Spinks at 154 rather than Pac/Cotto.

Floyd DOES coast at times. He'll go back to the ropes and allow his opponents to throw a flurry, smile, and take it back to centre ring again.

This wouldn't work the first time he tried it against Cuevas. Cuevas isn't Margarito (who Floyd would've outmanouvered easily IMO) and he would smash Floyd to bits. Literally.

No Margarito punches straighter (not saying much) and throws more leather and has more range/height. I'd honestly give Marg a better stylistic shot than Cuevas who is also a B class fighter at best, but both would get picked apart. Really if your going to pick someone over Floyd find someone who can at least throw a straight punch so it at least has a chance of landing

[Caponecartels]

Yeah, YOURS.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

:pop

[Flea Man]

No Margarito punches straighter (not saying much) and throws more leather and has more range/height. I'd honestly give Marg a better stylistic shot than Cuevas who is also a B class fighter at best, but both would get picked apart. Really if your going to pick someone over Floyd find someone who can at least throw a straight punch so it at least has a chance of landing


The fact of the matter is, at 147 Floyd throws single-shots or two-punch combos. They are not powerful enough to keep Cuevas away. Whilst Floyd employs great lateral movement and foot speed, he does drop into his shell and retreat to the ropes.

Now, straight shots are not going to matter because with every puncher that hits Floyd's guard it is going to do him serious damage. He's ging to have to go back to the ropes more frequently due to some serious steam being taken away from him. He won't be able to keep it up for the 12, and even his guard is going to come down after the punishment Cuevas puts him through.

Cuevas H2H is one of the most destructive forces at 147. Thing is, you'd probably pick Floyd over Hearns at 147 and you are a ridiculously unobjective poster.

[PowerPuncher]

The fact of the matter is, at 147 Floyd throws single-shots or two-punch combos. They are not powerful enough to keep Cuevas away. Whilst Floyd employs great lateral movement and foot speed, he does drop into his shell and retreat to the ropes.

Now, straight shots are not going to matter because with every puncher that hits Floyd's guard it is going to do him serious damage. He's ging to have to go back to the ropes more frequently due to some serious steam being taken away from him. He won't be able to keep it up for the 12, and even his guard is going to come down after the punishment Cuevas puts him through.

Cuevas H2H is one of the most destructive forces at 147. Thing is, you'd probably pick Floyd over Hearns at 147 and you are a ridiculously unobjective poster.

I wouldnt pick Floyd over Hearns at 147, I rate Floyds ability highly, no secret of that, I also don't rate Cuevas highly head to head.

Floyd's punches have been good enough to get the respect of and hurt Delahoya and Hatton who both had chins up there with Cuevas, Floyd just hasnt been getting hit at 147-154 and a wider slower puncher is going to land less and when he does it'll be less clean. Sure Cuevas looked brutal teeing off on club fighters but he never replicated it against anyone elite because he doesnt have the boxing skill to do so

Not to mention Cuevas was a champ in a weak WW era and his best win is Espada who isnt a big fuss. Cuevas may have been past prime but Hearns and Duran thoroughly exposed him

[Danny]

I probab;y have Basilio at about 40-45. Note that I don't rate any fighters that I haven't seen a substantial amount of footage of.

I HAVE done a list before where I included fighters that had fantastic resumes even if I hadn't seen them and I think it was;

1) Ray Robinson
2) Harry Greb
3) Sam Langford
4) Roberto Duran
5) Ezzard Charles
6) Muhammad Ali


That's all I can really recall. Might have to try again, but as WhatARock says, every day you remember something else or learn a new tidbit of information that makes one or two places uncertain; then you just get a headache over it and put it to one side, I can usually fathom what 'bracket' I will put a fighter if I am given an example.

As per the original question, I have Floyd around the 50-60 mark.

That's one hell of a list, but as someone laready stated, Armstrong should be there! Personally, I have Henry at NO.2. P4P of all time. Ahead of him is Robinson!

[Flea Man]

I wouldnt pick Floyd over Hearns at 147, I rate Floyds ability highly, no secret of that, I also don't rate Cuevas highly head to head.

Floyd's punches have been good enough to get the respect of and hurt Delahoya and Hatton who both had chins up there with Cuevas, Floyd just hasnt been getting hit at 147-154 and a wider slower puncher is going to land less and when he does it'll be less clean. Sure Cuevas looked brutal teeing off on club fighters but he never replicated it against anyone elite because he doesnt have the boxing skill to do so

Not to mention Cuevas was a champ in a weak WW era and his best win is Espada who isnt a big fuss. Cuevas may have been past prime but Hearns and Duran thoroughly exposed him

Yeah, by beating the shit out of him. Floyd isn't doing that.

[cotto20]

No, there's no doubt that Floyd would never step up to fight someone like Cuevas. Basically he won't fight anyone who is dangerous. I can see him fighting Berto rather than Mosley, and Spinks at 154 rather than Pac/Cotto.


Floyd DOES coast at times. He'll go back to the ropes and allow his opponents to throw a flurry, smile, and take it back to centre ring again.

This wouldn't work the first time he tried it against Cuevas. Cuevas isn't Margarito (who Floyd would've outmanouvered easily IMO) and he would smash Floyd to bits. Literally.

Cuevas was to slow for floyd. A 14 year old Tony Ayala Jr beat up Cuevas in sparring, when Cuevas was world champion.

Floyd is just to skilled for Cuevas

[Robbi]

Even if we were basing it solely on skills, I think he's terribly overrated and still wouldn't rate him among the best I've ever seen.

I think you underrate him, terribly.

[PetethePrince]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

:pop

LoL

[cotto20]

I think you underrate him, terribly.

I agree with ya

[Sweet Pea]

I think you underrate him, terribly.By saying he isn't among the best I've ever seen? Sorry, that's an opinion built up from watching a lot of fights and a lot of fighters. Floyd is not among the best of them. If you or anyone else would like I'll name some names as to who I'm more impressed by on film.

[Robbi]

By saying he isn't among the best I've ever seen? Sorry, that's an opinion built up from watching a lot of fights and a lot of fighters. Floyd is not among the best of them. If you or anyone else would like I'll name some names as to who I'm more impressed by on film.

Nope. Just in general you underrate him.

[Sweet Pea]

Nope. Just in general you underrate him.I disagree. I don't like him at all, which is why I so commonly speak of him in a lowly manner. Only when a comparison between he and the true greats of the sports comes up do I question his accomplishments and ability, because, IMO they're simply not up to par. Then again, to be completely honest, his accomplishments likely never will because of the weakness of the era he's fighting in. I consider him head and shoulders above anyone around today, and believe he'd beat them all unquestionably. Unfortunately, given the lack of true class for him to fight, we'll never really know how well he stacks up to the true greats of the sport, even if he does defeat them all. I consider Pacquiao a better P4P fighter than Floyd, but I believe Floyd would beat him no questions asked in a matchup due to his size advantage.

With this kind of viewpoint, I can only really judge him based on what he shows in the ring, and with performances like the one Saturday, against completely overmatched opponents, he isn't doing himself any favors other than to the delusional fans who believe Marquez stood any sort of chance in the first place. IMO, he hasn't proven to be a truly special fighter since his 130 pound days.

[cotto20]

I disagree. I don't like him at all, which is why I so commonly speak of him in a lowly manner. Only when a comparison between he and the true greats of the sports comes up do I question his accomplishments and ability, because, IMO they're simply not up to par. Then again, to be completely honest, his accomplishments likely never will because of the weakness of the era he's fighting in. I consider him head and shoulders above anyone around today, and believe he'd beat them all unquestionably. Unfortunately, given the lack of true class for him to fight, we'll never really know how well he stacks up to the true greats of the sport, even if he does defeat them all. I consider Pacquiao a better P4P fighter than Floyd, but I believe Floyd would beat him no questions asked in a matchup due to his size advantage.

With this kind of viewpoint, I can only really judge him based on what he shows in the ring, and with performances like the one Saturday, against completely overmatched opponents, he isn't doing himself any favors other than to the delusional fans who believe Marquez stood any sort of chance in the first place. IMO, he hasn't proven to be a truly special fighter since his 130 pound days.

Ok. Would you say he is a greater fighter than Manuel Ortiz and Dick Tiger?

[Flea Man]

That's one hell of a list, but as someone laready stated, Armstrong should be there! Personally, I have Henry at NO.2. P4P of all time. Ahead of him is Robinson!

Yeah, I did, after saying how stupid I was for forgetting him because I was tired/stoned:patsch

[cotto20]

Yeah, I did, after saying how stupid I was for forgetting him because I was tired/stoned:patsch

smoking, while talking about the history of boxing :roll:. :-(

[Flea Man]

smoking, while talking about the history of boxing :roll:. :-(

And? Monzon smoked (cigarettes) during roadwork. Chad Dawson was busted for Marijuana after winning a fight.

Doesn't help me haul my ass down to the gym very often but allows me to get very deeply immersed in fights and notice little nuances I wouldn't usually spot:good

[cotto20]

And? Monzon smoked (cigarettes) during roadwork. Chad Dawson was busted for Marijuana after winning a fight.

Doesn't help me haul my ass down to the gym very often but allows me to get very deeply immersed in fights and notice little nuances I wouldn't usually spot:good

:lol:..........Do you go to a boxing gym?

[Flea Man]

:lol:..........Do you go to a boxing gym?

Yeah, a Pro Gym in Southampton. Looks can be deceiving and that photo was taken when I was.....17??? Something like that. You obviously don't think I look very tough, but I'm probably tougher than the guy who sends PM's being rude about someones appearance and trying to intimidate them? Or 'keyboard warriors' as they're known.

Is your record on Boxrec?

[Sweet Pea]

Ok. Would you say he is a greater fighter than Manuel Ortiz and Dick Tiger?He's a more skilled boxer technically than Tiger, but arguably not as effective. You could argue otherwise, but the facts are that Tiger is far more proven against top notch opposition than Floyd is. Depends on what you prefer. I consider Tiger the greater fighter, though.

Ortiz is a difficult case. Based on the informed opinion of those who've watched him fight in person, he was one of the best fighters of the era and one of the first turnovers into the modern style of boxing. According to them, there's been no Bantamweight to match him, Jofe coming closest. That is mighty high praise from first hand accounts of the man. Unfortunately, not only is there little footage of him, but he was one of the types that didn't take the sport as seriously as he could have. Because of this, he'd often come into bouts looking out of shape and/or lackadaisical. One of those fighters that could look sublime one night, then lackluster the other. In terms of talent though, I'd rate him among the best to have ever fought at the lower weights.

In the footage available on Youtube against Castillo, he shows fantastic in-fighting ability. My2Sense compared him to Barney Ross. I'd agree in his general look and stance, but he seemed to be much more of an inside oriented, unorthodox type than Ross. No doubt he'd be a handful for any Bantamweight to have ever laced up the gloves.

As to how he matches up in a P4P sense to Floyd, I'd say that based on ability he'd be right up there no question. Floyd, while fighting under far different conditions than Ortiz (which are also things that need to be taken into account with these kinds of comparisons), has been a much more consistent performer. I don't consider him any more talented or capable a boxer, though.

[Sweet Pea]

smoking, while talking about the history of boxing :roll:. :-(One of my favorite past-times.

[Flea Man]

One of my favorite past-times.


:lol::good:goodGot some Afghani Resin on the blow at the moment Pea, watching some Luis Rodriguez:smoke

[cotto20]

He's a more skilled boxer technically than Tiger, but arguably not as effective. You could argue otherwise, but the facts are that Tiger is far more proven against top notch opposition than Floyd is. Depends on what you prefer. I consider Tiger the greater fighter, though.

Ortiz is a difficult case. Based on the informed opinion of those who've watched him fight in person, he was one of the best fighters of the era and one of the first turnovers into the modern style of boxing. According to them, there's been no Bantamweight to match him, Jofe coming closest. That is mighty high praise from first hand accounts of the man. Unfortunately, not only is there little footage of him, but he was one of the types that didn't take the sport as seriously as he could have. Because of this, he'd often come into bouts looking out of shape and/or lackadaisical. One of those fighters that could look sublime one night, then lackluster the other. In terms of talent though, I'd rate him among the best to have ever fought at the lower weights.

In the footage available on Youtube against Castillo, he shows fantastic in-fighting ability. My2Sense compared him to Barney Ross. I'd agree in his general look and stance, but he seemed to be much more of an inside oriented, unorthodox type than Ross. No doubt he'd be a handful for any Bantamweight to have ever laced up the gloves.

As to how he matches up in a P4P sense to Floyd, I'd say that based on ability he'd be right up there no question. Floyd, while fighting under far different conditions than Ortiz (which are also things that need to be taken into account with these kinds of comparisons), has been a much more consistent performer. I don't consider him any more talented or capable a boxer, though.

No I dont mean talent. I mean you should be remembered as the greater fighter?

[cotto20]

One of my favorite past-times.

:lol::good:goodGot some Afghani Resin on the blow at the moment Pea, watching some Luis Rodriguez:smoke

Smoking disgusts me. No offence, but I find it pretty amazing how you can seat there and watch legends in action, while your sitting there with a cigarette, destroying your lungs and getting yellow teeth and smelly breath.

But I guess thats why your watching the legends, and there not watching you.

[Sweet Pea]

No I dont mean talent. I mean you should be remembered as the greater fighter?I'd have to do more research on Ortiz to come up with my own informed opinion on the matter. Based on the opinions of those who are a lot more knowledgable on the man, I wouldn't have any problem with someone rating Ortiz above Floyd.

On paper Floyd's record looks great. If you dig just a bit deeper, you'll see what an easy career he's had. He's still relatively untested, and the only guys to have really pushed him were a poor man's Julio Cesar Chavez and an old, shopworn De La Hoya. Since moving up from 130 I don't consider him anything special in comparison to any of the true greats, despite the fact that he's more than grown into the weight classes. It's really only his work at that weight that has me considering his all time potential.

[Sweet Pea]

Smoking disgusts me. No offence, but I find it pretty amazing how you can seat there and watch legends in action, while your sitting there with a cigarette, destroying your lungs and getting yellow teeth and smelly breath.

But I guess thats why your watching the legends, and there not watching you.A) I think you're a bit confused, B) I take it you're none too familiar with Carlos Monzon or Nicolino Locche?

[cotto20]

A) I think you're a bit confused, B) I take it you're none too familiar with Carlos Monzon or Nicolino Locche?

No offence Monzon and Locche, were fighters who got away with it. You just do it and don't even box. don't compare yourselves with people like them, they were freaks.

[cotto20]

I'd have to do more research on Ortiz to come up with my own informed opinion on the matter. Based on the opinions of those who are a lot more knowledgable on the man, I wouldn't have any problem with someone rating Ortiz above Floyd.

On paper Floyd's record looks great. If you dig just a bit deeper, you'll see what an easy career he's had. He's still relatively untested, and the only guys to have really pushed him were a poor man's Julio Cesar Chavez and an old, shopworn De La Hoya. Since moving up from 130 I don't consider him anything special in comparison to any of the true greats, despite the fact that he's more than grown into the weight classes. It's really only his work at that weight that has me considering his all time potential.

So you belive Dick Tiger is a greater fighter than Mayweather?

[Sweet Pea]

So you belive Dick Tiger is a greater fighter than Mayweather?What is this, a fucking merry-go-round? I already answered that.

[Flea Man]

You seem to think you can only comment on boxing unless you've boxed. Is your record on boxrec? How many pro fighters have you sparred?

[Sweet Pea]

No offence Monzon and Locche, were fighters who got away with it. You just do it and don't even box. don't compare yourselves with people like them, they were freaks.So says you. I am like a mixture of Monzon and Locche in the ring. And I owe it all to smoking.

[cotto20]

You seem to think you can only comment on boxing unless you've boxed. Is your record on boxrec? How many pro fighters have you sparred?

17 amature fights with only 1 loss .It's great being a fighter, just knowing i have been in a ring and expreinced it.unlike some (cough cough)

[Flea Man]

[QUOTE=BoxingGlove1;4999773]17 amature fights with only 1 loss .It's great being a fighter, just knowing i have been in a ring and expreinced it.unlike some (cough cough)[/QUOTE well I've been stabbed and didn't cry so I'm de facto tougher than you. At 9 stone held my own wigh a pro middle, so at one point I've been in the ring. Shame you can't turn any of that ring experiance into knowledge. You've made nearly 200 posts in a few days, shouldn't you be out training?

[sugarsean]

we should wait till Floyd retires before we rate him

[PbP Bacon]

On paper Floyd's record looks great. If you dig just a bit deeper, you'll see what an easy career he's had. He's still relatively untested, and the only guys to have really pushed him were a poor man's Julio Cesar Chavez and an old, shopworn De La Hoya. Since moving up from 130 I don't consider him anything special in comparison to any of the true greats, despite the fact that he's more than grown into the weight classes. It's really only his work at that weight that has me considering his all time potential.


... let me bask in your wisdom :asskiss