Left Hook- palms down or facing inward?

[wordisbond]

Some great answers for the questions I've ask previously. :thumbsup

When throwing the left hook, I've heard some coaches say to turn the hand over and have the palms facing downward, and I've heard some say that it's better to have the palm facing inward. I've also heard one say that both can be utilized (from up close, one should have the palm down, and from a distance, the palm shoud face inward for a longer reach). What's you take on this? Your input is appreciated.
-WIB

[gatto]

kill yourself ....use the search it was asked before

[thejokerswild]

kill yourself ....use the search it was asked before
:emma such a drama queen.

[taj-09]

you answered it corrctly in your original post about different ranges

[RightHooker]

My first trainer said that you should throw palm in to the body. To the head amateurs should throw palm down to avoid being called for slapping. Said pros can do whatever feels best since they don't have to worry about slapping (atleast not as much).

[wordisbond]

you answered it corrctly in your original post about different ranges

Thanks so much bro.

[elmaldito]

Palms down for power........anyway you can land it would be the best. For power, palms down.

[turpinr]

i always threw mine palm inward,but never gave it much thought.

[RDJ]

I throw it with palms inward in close range or when I load up on it, palms facing the floor when it's more of a probing hook.

[achillesthegreat]

Palm is supposed to be down or at 45 degrees. Big gloves take away accuracy and smooth delivery so alot of people go thumb up and are in effect throwing a haymaker. Elbow isn't up because of open palm and if it is then you can feel your palm being up isn't natural. There will be a slight strain on the forearm. Ultimately it affects your technique.

Keep that palm down and throw the shot for accuracy. Thumb up and you are covering more surface area on the face, which shouldn't be the desired aim.

[boxon123]

And the counter view of this ! keep you thumb up as the glove is thinner that way. it will pass around the right hand defence much easier. Palm is supposed to be down or at 45 degrees. Big gloves take away accuracy and smooth delivery so alot of people go thumb up and are in effect throwing a haymaker. Elbow isn't up because of open palm and if it is then you can feel your palm being up isn't natural. There will be a slight strain on the forearm. Ultimately it affects your technique.

Keep that palm down and throw the shot for accuracy. Thumb up and you are covering more surface area on the face, which shouldn't be the desired aim.

[boxon123]

And the counter view of this ! keep you thumb up as the glove is thinner that way. it will pass around the right hand defence much easier.
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[JagOfTroy]

I was taught that when throwing a left hook, to keep the hand level with my shoulder and palm facing down. He gave good reasoning why to throw it with the palm down but the most obvious one is that it puts your shoulder in a good place to block and roll punches off of incase the hook misses or they are trying to counter-punch the hook.

[The Predator]

Another big issue is that if you have your palm towards you, the judges might think it´s slap or punch with your inside, even if it´s not. However, nowadays they teach both ways at national team leavel, at least here in Sweden.
I don´t lose any power, not turning the hand. A lot of the pro´s throws the hooks with their thumbs up.
Both ways works, best to learn them both
IMO
All the best
The Predator

[achillesthegreat]

And the counter view of this ! keep you thumb up as the glove is thinner that way. it will pass around the right hand defence much easier.

It's simply going to cover a bigger surface area thus distributing the power rather than concentrating it.

It also means that to get around the gloves you are going to go longer with the hook thus opening yourself up more. You can go long and be more accurate with the palm down because you are trying to land your knuckles to establish the power line. After all, the desired aim is to rattle that chin isn't it.

[scrap]

Its better Biomechanicaly to Turn the Shot for direction and Technique.

[Bodi]

Depends what you are trying to achieve with the punch and what openings are present at the time.

It amazes me how many people ask how to throw this punch, that punch and the other punch. If you only had one style of jab, one way of throwing the right hand, one type of hook and one way of throwing the uppercut, you would be an extremely limited fighter. A good fighter needs to be versatile to be able to adapt to different situations.

Practice throwing all shots, from all angles, with differing angles of the hand at impact, from all ranges, off the back foot, off the front foot etc.

If I have said this once, I have said it a million times - the more options you have, the more problems your opponent will have.

[RDJ]

That's a good point Bodi.

[Bodi]

Thank you RDJ

It tires me when I hear people say that you should throw a punch "this way because it gives more power". There is a big difference between throwing a punch in a certain manner repeatedly, and being able to throw that same punch when the situation requires you to throw it. All of the power in the world doesn't mean a s*** if you can't land. Accuracy is the key to every punch we throw.

Let me refer back to the Mayweather - Hatton fight. Floyd effectively sealed the deal with one of the sweetest check hooks we will ever see, but did Mayweather only throw check hooks throughout the fight? Of course he didn't! The variation in his attacks is what caused Hatton so much trouble, and this is why Floyd is arguably the best fighter of his generation.

I would also like to see someone tell Roy Jones that he is throwing hooks wrong when he lands 7 of them in quick succession.

Yes, I am pointing out two of the best in the game, but the point remains the same, which if something isn't working, you need to have the ability to tweak things slightly, and you can only do this if you have worked different variations in training - sparring is the perfect time to work on things like this.

[RDJ]

We may not be Jones Jr. or Mayweather, but that's ok we're not fighting their competition either.

I'm convinced after thinking about it. My right hook is more powerful when thrown with the thumb up against a bag, but I can't land it so it just stinks in sparring. With the thumb towards me I can get it off faster and hide the punch better, Hopkins style. Landed a few of them today actually, which surprised me.

Same for the jab, I sometimes throw it with the thumb up. Salvador Sanchez does that a lot, and so does McCallum. I'm being told not to do it, but biomechanically it just feels so nice in certain circumstances.

I'll be doing both from now on, and no longer bother myself with wondering what the "correct" way is. The correct way is when it lands on your opponents chin and bothers him.

:good

[achillesthegreat]

We may not be Jones Jr. or Mayweather, but that's ok we're not fighting their competition either.

I'm convinced after thinking about it. My right hook is more powerful when thrown with the thumb up against a bag, but I can't land it so it just stinks in sparring. With the thumb towards me I can get it off faster and hide the punch better, Hopkins style. Landed a few of them today actually, which surprised me.

Same for the jab, I sometimes throw it with the thumb up. Salvador Sanchez does that a lot, and so does McCallum. I'm being told not to do it, but biomechanically it just feels so nice in certain circumstances.

I'll be doing both from now on, and no longer bother myself with wondering what the "correct" way is. The correct way is when it lands on your opponents chin and bothers him.

:good
Are your shoulders level when throwing the hook or find yourself leaning thus making it more of an overhand (or even a cross) which can be argued as the most powerful punch possible.

[RDJ]

It leans a bit towards overhand but it was still a true hook I think. It's too short to be called an overhand unless I'm confused with the terminology. Shoulders were leveled I think, I'll need to check next time to be sure.

Hopkins does it a lot as he steps in. He steps in, ducks a bit, leans to the left, then sneaks it in.

[achillesthegreat]

It leans a bit towards overhand but it was still a true hook I think. It's too short to be called an overhand unless I'm confused with the terminology. Shoulders were leveled I think, I'll need to check next time to be sure.

Hopkins does it a lot as he steps in. He steps in, ducks a bit, leans to the left, then sneaks it in.

Not really a hook. Either a leaning right cross or short overhand me thinks. For both you can do palm open. Not so much right cross but given the situation it can work. I don't think your thumb is completely up when you are doing the Hopkins move, more 45 degrees.

Is that right?

[RDJ]

Not really a hook. Either a leaning right cross or short overhand me thinks. For both you can do palm open. Not so much right cross but given the situation it can work. I don't think your thumb is completely up when you are doing the Hopkins move, more 45 degrees.

Is that right?

No not up, towards me. The fist is horizontal.

[achillesthegreat]

No not up, towards me. The fist is horizontal.

I re-read your original post. I see what you are saying. My mistake.

[scrap]

How much a shot turns is in relation to where the elbows are starting from Horses for Courses, nearer the Bumhole the better :lol:

[boxon123]

Interestingly I thought the idea was to land the shot. If the glove if too wide one way and it fits through the other I think I would make the Adjustment.:)It's simply going to cover a bigger surface area thus distributing the power rather than concentrating it.

It also means that to get around the gloves you are going to go longer with the hook thus opening yourself up more. You can go long and be more accurate with the palm down because you are trying to land your knuckles to establish the power line. After all, the desired aim is to rattle that chin isn't it.

[TommyV]

I pretty much always keep mine at a 45 degree angle, so half way between inwards & downwards.

[achillesthegreat]

Interestingly I thought the idea was to land the shot. If the glove if too wide one way and it fits through the other I think I would make the Adjustment.:)

It's a risk vs reward scenario. I wouldn't want to make adjustments to land a punch but be open at the same time. Personally, I'd wait for the right moment to throw the right shot or I would try to create the right moment rather than throw the wrong type of shot.

[Pugsley]

Palm is supposed to be down or at 45 degrees. Big gloves take away accuracy and smooth delivery so alot of people go thumb up and are in effect throwing a haymaker. Elbow isn't up because of open palm and if it is then you can feel your palm being up isn't natural. There will be a slight strain on the forearm. Ultimately it affects your technique.

Keep that palm down and throw the shot for accuracy. Thumb up and you are covering more surface area on the face, which shouldn't be the desired aim.

So you're saying that technique-wise it is better to have the palm facing down so that your elbow will naturally point up?
Mechnically I have to agree, since I find that with the palm down or the thumb almost facing down, you get a better 'hook'. That is the punch starts off high and then slants downwards as it curves back to you... a better angle to dig into the chin.

...some guy the other day was 'correcting' me by saying to throw with the thumb up and STILL hold the elbow up and it just did not feel right. It was almost like my elbow was going to bend off... I get irritated by idiots.

So I'm going to ask, is there any such rationale that a thumb-up hook can or should ever be used? Its a dumb question almost.

[wordisbond]

So you're saying that technique-wise it is better to have the palm facing down so that your elbow will naturally point up?
Mechnically I have to agree, since I find that with the palm down or the thumb almost facing down, you get a better 'hook'. That is the punch starts off high and then slants downwards as it curves back to you... a better angle to dig into the chin.

...some guy the other day was 'correcting' me by saying to throw with the thumb up and STILL hold the elbow up and it just did not feel right. It was almost like my elbow was going to bend off... I get irritated by idiots.

So I'm going to ask, is there any such rationale that a thumb-up hook can or should ever be used? Its a dumb question almost.

I would definitely use it when I'm a bit further away. With the thumb, one is able to cover more ground.

[achillesthegreat]

So you're saying that technique-wise it is better to have the palm facing down so that your elbow will naturally point up?
Mechnically I have to agree, since I find that with the palm down or the thumb almost facing down, you get a better 'hook'. That is the punch starts off high and then slants downwards as it curves back to you... a better angle to dig into the chin.

...some guy the other day was 'correcting' me by saying to throw with the thumb up and STILL hold the elbow up and it just did not feel right. It was almost like my elbow was going to bend off... I get irritated by idiots.

So I'm going to ask, is there any such rationale that a thumb-up hook can or should ever be used? Its a dumb question almost.

Thumb up and elbow up does not sit nicely with the ligaments, tendons, muscle etc People can refute this but footage doesn't lie. The large majority of boxers wear big gloves, expect the glove to protect their hand, throw a bit of a haymaker with thumb up and the elbow naturally pointing down THUS not really getting the shoulder into it properly or establishing the most effective power line.

Some do argue that on range you put the thumb up but again the elbow will dip if the thumb is completely up. The more you turn the thumb down, the more the elbow will go up helping to be more accurate and establish the power line.

I can accept 45 degree hand turn though so not completely down or up. I find this also works effectively.

Final point, you can throw long hooks with palm down.

[boxon123]

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[achillesthegreat]

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he is a good coach but i have to disagree with him. he is simply showing his opponent that a hook is coming.

[scrap]

Interestingly when throwing a Hook the only thing turning and moving is the Elbow. The Hand doesnt turn its a Biomechanical impossabilty. What makes the Left Hook is the right Foot and Shoulder, if the right shoulder isnt balanced its not happening.

[scrap]

Oh and that vidio is a terrible demonstration of a Left Hook, He has lost all Oral Stability and centre Line, when throwing one you are open to one when you reachof the back foot all form is lost.

[Kieran]

I throw them thumb up and elbow down. Originally I used the more traditional elbow right up and palm down but found this slow and painfull on the shoulder. Once I switched I started landing hooks far more regularly, I think you don't see it coming as much.

The hooks in this video of Ike Quartey training are a good example of what I mean:

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Edit: forgot to add the reason for my post. I wanted to get coaches opinions of hooking like this. Is it technically wrong? My coach prefers the more traditional way but I figure if it feels natural and is more effective then it can't be bad. I just wanted some more input.

[Starched Him]

Some great answers for the questions I've ask previously. :thumbsup

When throwing the left hook, I've heard some coaches say to turn the hand over and have the palms facing downward, and I've heard some say that it's better to have the palm facing inward. I've also heard one say that both can be utilized (from up close, one should have the palm down, and from a distance, the palm shoud face inward for a longer reach). What's you take on this? Your input is appreciated.
-WIB
Shane Mosely Fights Palm down, He basically Fights off his 1st 2 knucles now. I like the Last 3 knuckles so palm in for me like Mike

[boxon123]

Oh and that vidio is a terrible demonstration of a Left Hook, He has lost all Oral Stability and centre Line, when throwing one you are open to one when you reachof the back foot all form is lost.
Exactly how experienced are you people here commenting on the left hook?

[scrap]

Achilles is biomechanicaly correct, once again the bodys working all or nothing everything as regards joints have a part to play. The prime movers are the foot and knee below the elbow and the opposite shoulder. Interestingly once the Fist goes past the opposite shoulder and the knee below power and position is lost, you are off Balance. Put your fist on someones chin with all the knuckles on his jawbone, that will give you a clue to not getting bad Hands. The position of the back foot helps the range you can throw the shot. Oh Boxon, been about.

[Journey Man]

I box (fighting tomorrow) and i can say its 100% palm down. If the palm is facing inwards then your body is making a scooping motion, meaning the power is going sideways but not all the leverage is hitting because your like scooping towards yourself. Its hard to explain but my good friend, (also boxing tomorrow on home show) has a problem and throws palm inwards and he loses alot of power doing so.

[Youngblood]

Oh Boxon, been about. :lol: Since the dawn of time.

[boxon123]

Oh and that vidio is a terrible demonstration of a Left Hook, He has lost all Oral Stability and centre Line, when throwing one you are open to one when you reachof the back foot all form is lost. Interesting! Evander Holyfield employed Weldon as his Balance Coach. And I think Holyfield may have used one of Weldon's moves to ko Buster Douglas(bounce forward bounce out and throw the right hand). Holyfield used the hook far more often that most fighters he uses the thumb up method.

[scrap]

Thuoght it was the Head down method no Balance.

[achillesthegreat]

Ali's the greatest heavyweight of all time but if he tried to teach me how to do many things, I surely wouldn't listen.

Pulling rank is too often a power trip. It has to make sense.

[Mohak]

I throw them thumb up and elbow down. Originally I used the more traditional elbow right up and palm down but found this slow and painfull on the shoulder. Once I switched I started landing hooks far more regularly, I think you don't see it coming as much.

The hooks in this video of Ike Quartey training are a good example of what I mean:

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Edit: forgot to add the reason for my post. I wanted to get coaches opinions of hooking like this. Is it technically wrong? My coach prefers the more traditional way but I figure if it feels natural and is more effective then it can't be bad. I just wanted some more input.



Love this clip.

[Jerry]

I find that the type of hook I throw is in relation to how high my target is. If they are tall and leaning back I like palms in. I feel that extends the power away from me a bit better if I have to reach. If they are my size and up close I put the palms down because it pulls the power back to my chest better. I wasn't trained to do this either way, it just happens naturally, and I'm only a low-level tough-man style fighter. I'm just chiming in with what I feel works.

[Jerry]

I tried palm down on the bag tonight because Achilles said it was a good idea and the dude's pretty smart. I was able to generate a lot more pressure on the inside knuckle, while I may still use palm in on some head shots I think for a painful body shot palm down is the way to go. I've quit throwing body shots except for flare in my past few fights because they just didn't seem to be doing any damage, and my fights are too short to use the shots to wear them down. I think turning my palm down on the hooks may have been the trick I needed. I actually walked away from the bag with sore knuckles..I don't pack a lot of power so normally that doesn't happen.

Keep in mind I was throwing these shots short and very close, both right and left.

[boxon123]

I have a couple of question .Why is the hook to the body not thrown with the thumb down? This is more a challenge than a question Hold your left hand about 18inches in front of your face Then try which is the the strongest when someone pushes it in a few different directions .Thumb up or thumb down.

[achillesthegreat]

Hook to the body is thrown with palm up by about 45 degrees. Body shots you turn under, head shots you turn over.

[scrap]

Thumb up keeps the elbow in line with the knee when throwing Body shots, good Biomechanics.

[norfolkinchance]

no one has really mentioned what the greats do. watch any video of famous left hookers.

frazier, trinidad, jopnes, tua, tyson etc etc none of them hook palm down , it is all palm in. so therefore you have your answer i think.

[wayneflint]

Interesting! Evander Holyfield employed Weldon as his Balance Coach. And I think Holyfield may have used one of Weldon's moves to ko Buster Douglas(bounce forward bounce out and throw the right hand). Holyfield used the hook far more often that most fighters he uses the thumb up method.

Well there are flaws in the mans theorys then, anybody that knows anything about the human body and balance knows we are top heavy our heads is what tips us over, so to be leaning forward is going to make you off balance as your centre of gravity isnt big enough to maintain balance which most commonly is compensated for with a wider stance which means movement from this stance will be slow and awkward rather than controlled movement, now your using a series of controlled falls rather than a more controlled movement using your legs to drive off in a certain direction. wasted energy using muscles to stabilize in back and legs hams/glutes to compensate for the poor posture when you have a skeletal structure you can use properly to bear a lot of the weight instead thus saving energy, dont fight against your joints work with them, i could go on but you get the idea, leaning is counter productive in terms of balance which will effect striking and movement, to sum it all up you just cant drive off a foot as easy from the stance leaning will leave you with thus effecting your explosiveness, potential range, speed etc, etc. not to mention leaving you open to being spoon fed a nice uppercut.