Why doesnt Wlad hold the "Ring" belt at Heavy?

[PolishPummler]

We know with him it's a love/hate thing with fans but he is clearly the man at Heavy.

IMO the "Ring" wants the most popular fighters to hold there belts so they can sell more mags.There is without a doubt a anti non American Heavy weight Champ bias in the US.Could this be the reason?He is not as marketbale as some of the belt holders in the division.

[kg0208]

We know with him it's a love/hate thing with fans but he is clearly the man at Heavy.

IMO the "Ring" wants the most popular fighters to hold there belts so they can sell more mags.There is without a doubt a anti non American Heavy weight Champ bias in the US.Could this be the reason?He is not as marketbale as some of the belt holders in the division.
He hasn't fulfilled the rules they apply across the board to all champions. He needs to beat the #2 guy (while he is #2). Has nothing to do with American or non American. And the other belt holders aren't American either, so it's not an American marketability thing.

[sandwichsurgeon]

There is no Heavyweight champion of the world.

Unfortunate but true.

[PolishPummler]

He hasn't fulfilled the rules they apply across the board to all champions. He needs to beat the #2 guy (while he is #2). Has nothing to do with American or non American. And the other belt holders aren't American either, so it's not an American marketability thing.

Yeah but it has alot to do with popularity though.

[kg0208]

Yeah but it has alot to do with popularity though.

He is more popular and better known than the other 3 champs as well.

He hasn't fulfilled the rules....thats all.

[PolishPummler]

Well in that case who is the #2 guy???

[joeboxer]

He hasn't fulfilled the rules they apply across the board to all champions. He needs to beat the #2 guy (while he is #2). Has nothing to do with American or non American. And the other belt holders aren't American either, so it's not an American marketability thing.also now that ring magazine is owned by a boxing promotions company...the ratings are definitely called into question...if they weren't already.

[kg0208]

Right now Peter. But that may change once Peter fights Maskaev.

The rules say when a title is vacant, #1 vs #2 is needed to fill the vacancy.

#1 can fight #3 under special circumstances. But Wlad hasn't fought either since being ranked #1.

[PolishPummler]

Right now Peter. But that may change once Peter fights Maskaev.

The rules say when a title is vacant, #1 vs #2 is needed to fill the vacancy.

#1 can fight #3 under special circumstances. But Wlad hasn't fought either since being ranked #1.

Ring is just another ABC.

[kg0208]

Ring is just another ABC.

No, cuz they don't strip titles nor do they have mandatories.

He can't just be crowned champion, he hasn't earned it yet.

[PolishPummler]

When Wlad unites all 4 belts. (WBO, WBA, IBF, and WBC) and is still standing, and healthy, then and only then shall he have the RING belt.

Of course his last name isnt Hopkins,Jones,Johnson.

He has to work twice as hard.

[PolishPummler]

No, cuz they don't strip titles nor do they have mandatories.

He can't just be crowned champion, he hasn't earned it yet.

And you said it!

No mandatories because it is a popularity contest.They want the BIGGEST NAME to hold there belt not the best fighters.

And this is why guys like Tarver and Hopkins try and take the easy route!

[brooklyn1550]

Are you implying that he doesn't hold the RING belt because he is not American?

[PolishPummler]

Are you implying that he doesn't hold the RING belt because he is not American?

No im implying that the Ring is just another ABC.

[KobeIsGod]

When/if he unifies one more belt, i'll consider him champ. as of know, he is the undisputed #1 hw. i dont really think its possible to unify more than 2 at this point. too much politics, belt turnover, etc....

or he could sign with golden boy :yep

[PolishPummler]

His name isnt Hopkins, who's boss owns the RING belts.

The sky is falling OMG!!!!!:shock:

[kg0208]

And you said it!

No mandatories because it is a popularity contest.They want the BIGGEST NAME to hold there belt not the best fighters.

And this is why guys like Tarver and Hopkins try and take the easy route!

Think what you want. Pacman is immensly popular and doesn't hold the Ring Belt. Judah wasn't and held it.

[Illmatic]

Think what you want. Pacman is immensly popular and doesn't hold the Ring Belt. Judah wasn't and held it.

:patsch what is so hard about following the Rings rules? they are clear as day and easy to follow....i guess it gets lost in translation to europeans.

Judah was RING champ by beating undisputed champ Spinks, who became undisputed champ by beating mayorga.

get it? to be the man, beat the man.

Pac is not the ring champ at 130, b.c he vacated his ring belt at 126, fought the #2 at 130 3 times, but never the #1 (barrera) until now, when Barrera is no longer the #1.

Wlad wasn't #1 when he fought Peter, and Peter wasn't #2 when he fought Wlad, so therefore it wasnt for the ring belt.

what is so difficult?

[Illmatic]

my bad kg...i misread your post

[kg0208]

my bad kg...i misread your post
No prob :good

The rules are simple and it has nothing to do with Americans or non Americans or even popularity.

I mean Calzaghe has the Ring belt....Hopkins only got it because he beat Tarver, who beat Jones who had it because he unified the big 3 belts.

[PolishPummler]

:patsch what is so hard about following the Rings rules? they are clear as day and easy to follow....i guess it gets lost in translation to europeans.

Judah was RING champ by beating undisputed champ Spinks, who became undisputed champ by beating mayorga.

get it? to be the man, beat the man.

Pac is not the ring champ at 130, b.c he vacated his ring belt at 126, fought the #2 at 130 3 times, but never the #1 (barrera) until now, when Barrera is no longer the #1.

Wlad wasn't #1 when he fought Peter, and Peter wasn't #2 when he fought Wlad, so therefore it wasnt for the ring belt.

what is so difficult?

Im more American than you TERRORIST SYMPATHIZER.

[kg0208]

Im more American than you TERRORIST SYMPATHIZER.
Well regardless, it has to do with the rules of Ring Magazine, and nothing to do with popularity.

Each fighter that has a Ring belt got it going through those rules and some popular fighters own the belt, and some unpopular fighters own the belt.

If it was about popularity, Spinks wouldn't be rated ahead of DLH. Pacman would have the 130 title, etc.

[PolishPummler]

Well regardless, it has to do with the rules of Ring Magazine, and nothing to do with popularity.

Each fighter that has a Ring belt got it going through those rules and some popular fighters own the belt, and some unpopular fighters own the belt.

If it was about popularity, Spinks wouldn't be rated ahead of DLH. Pacman would have the 130 title, etc.

My final conclussion.

The Ring top 10 is a good source.

The Ring Championship is flawed.<<Another trincket though stronger than most still a trincket!

[kg0208]

My final conclussion.

The Ring top 10 is a good source.

The Ring Championship is flawed.<<Another trincket though stronger than most still a trincket!

All the belts have flaws. Even the old ones when it was just one belt. Ezzard Charles never being LHW champion is proof of that.

[DamonD]

Awarding Wlad the Ring belt out of the blue rather than winning it in the ring would be ridiculous.

[JAM Killer]

We know with him it's a love/hate thing with fans but he is clearly the man at Heavy.

IMO the "Ring" wants the most popular fighters to hold there belts so they can sell more mags.There is without a doubt a anti non American Heavy weight Champ bias in the US.Could this be the reason?He is not as marketbale as some of the belt holders in the division.

Because he hasn't unified dummy, you can't be the man until you unify, or beat the man that did.

[box03]

Who ever is holding the most belts when the smoke clears should be the ring champ, to get heavywieght boxing on track the belt holders need to fight other belt holders plain and simple.

[Drew101]

All the belts have flaws. Even the old ones when it was just one belt. Ezzard Charles never being LHW champion is proof of that.

Well, it just shows that there's precedent for the fact that the best fighter in a division often isn't the reigning champion. Like it or not, Lesnivich was the reigning LH champion when Charles was tearing through the LH ranks in the 40's. For that matter, Robinson was the best welterweight of the 40's, but had to wait for a couple of years before he got a shot at the actual championship, even though his predecessor, Marty Servo, had already lost to him twice.

Wlad's certainly the best fighter in the heavyweight division right now, but, until he fulfills the criteria by beating the Peter/Maskaev winner...or, whomever is #3 at the time, he's not the RING champ. Simple as that.

[Stinky gloves]

He should, he is beating one US fighter after another.

[PolishPummler]

Because he hasn't unified dummy, you can't be the man until you unify, or beat the man that did.

Arent we supposed to look to the Ring as to who is the Champ and dont people claim that the Ring Champ is way more legit than the ABC's.If some people dont recognise the ABC's then why unify them to prove your "Ring Championship"worth.

The "Ring" belt is no better than any other trincket belt.

[PolishPummler]

He should, he is beating one US fighter after another.

He beat America's #1 contender in Brock.

He the people's #1 contender in Peter.

He hasnt beat the Ring's #1 contender on there terms so i guess they wont allow him the priveldge of wearing there ugly little belt.

[Thread Stealer]

To fill a vacancy in The Ring, a #1 contender has to face a #2 contender or in some instances (#1 Vitali-#3 Sanders), a #3 contender.

Wlad hasn't been in any fights in which it has happened, so he's not The Ring champ at HW.

[kg0208]

He beat America's #1 contender in Brock.

He the people's #1 contender in Peter.

He hasnt beat the Ring's #1 contender on there terms so i guess they wont allow him the priveldge of wearing there ugly little belt.

Peter wasn't #2 when Wlad beat him and for that matter, Wlad wasn't #1.

They are entirely different fighters now. A belt isn't awared on past wins and accomplishments.

[kg0208]

Well, it just shows that there's precedent for the fact that the best fighter in a division often isn't the reigning champion. Like it or not, Lesnivich was the reigning LH champion when Charles was tearing through the LH ranks in the 40's. For that matter, Robinson was the best welterweight of the 40's, but had to wait for a couple of years before he got a shot at the actual championship, even though his predecessor, Marty Servo, had already lost to him twice.

Wlad's certainly the best fighter in the heavyweight division right now, but, until he fulfills the criteria by beating the Peter/Maskaev winner...or, whomever is #3 at the time, he's not the RING champ. Simple as that.

You're right and I agree with you. My sole point is that Ring is absolutely correct that you should have to beat the champ to get the belt. It's no popularity contest.

[PolishPummler]

Peter wasn't #2 when Wlad beat him and for that matter, Wlad wasn't #1.

They are entirely different fighters now. A belt isn't awared on past wins and accomplishments.

Yeah it's a mess.I forgot to mention his destruction of Byrd who was considered the #1 HW at the time i believe.

[kg0208]

Yeah it's a mess.I forgot to mention his destruction of Byrd who was considered the #1 HW at the time i believe.

Which is how Wlad got to be #1 I think. If Byrd himself had ever fought the #2 guy, he would have been champ and been able to pass it on to Wlad.

We all know Wlad is the best HW in the world, but rules are rules and if they break them for him, where does it stop?

[Dekkers]

Ring is just another ABC.
It'd be worse if they just handed out a belt because Wlads' winning a popularity contest, atleast the ABCs try to have some sort of excuse for a fight first. When the hell did ring become the authority on boxing anyway? No more credibility than any other rag with its own opinions/set of rankings. Get ten of ESB's most solid/savvy posters to come up with a set of rankings and it'd have the same amount of credibility (and they'd probably say the same thing, Wlad's the top guy but he ain't the champ, there isn't one yet).

[Stinky gloves]

Peter wasn't #2 when Wlad beat him and for that matter, Wlad wasn't #1.

They are entirely different fighters now. A belt isn't awared on past wins and accomplishments.

I think Ring belt do not work always in the same as linear champion.
For example Joe C is Ring champion cause he demolished US star
Lacy but he isn't linear cause he and Lacy were not #1 and #2.

Beating Peter gave Wald #1 spot. Beside that he beat Byrd who was top#3
at a time, and he beat also Williamson, Austin, Brock (top one contender)
and Brewster.

I think the current top ranked fighters (Maskaev, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Peter)
are on similar level of Byrd/Peter/Brock/Brewster/Austin at the time when
Wlad fought them.

The only thing which may be against Wlat to be rated #1 is he did not unify other belt.
So I would rather call Wlad a peoples champion now instead Ring champion.

Beside that Ring champion status is degraded a lot.

[kg0208]

It'd be worse if they just handed out a belt because Wlads' winning a popularity contest, atleast the ABCs try to have some sort of excuse for a fight first. When the hell did ring become the authority on boxing anyway? No more credibility than any other rag with its own opinions/set of rankings. Get ten of ESB's most solid/savvy posters to come up with a set of rankings and it'd have the same amount of credibility (and they'd probably say the same thing, Wlad's the top guy but he ain't the champ, there isn't one yet).

We're doing that lol....

[Dekkers]

We're doing that lol....

Screw Ring, go ESB!! :bbb

[kg0208]

I think Ring belt do not work always in the same as linear champion.
For example Joe C is Ring champion cause he demolished US star
Lacy but he isn't linear cause he and Lacy were not #1 and #2.

Beating Peter gave Wald #1 spot. Beside that he beat Byrd who was top#3
at a time, and he beat also Williamson, Austin, Brock (top one contender)
and Brewster.

I think the current top ranked fighters (Maskaev, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Peter)
are on similar level of Byrd/Peter/Brock/Brewster/Austin at the time when
Wlad fought them.

The only thing which may be against Wlat to be rated #1 is he did not unify other belt.
So I would rather call Wlad a peoples champion now instead Ring champion.

Beside that Ring champion status is degraded a lot.

No one knows why Joe Calzaghe is Ring champion. They invoked their "special circumstances" clause, which is written there in black and white mind you, but doesn't say what they entail. #1 vs #3 can fight under special circumstances. Lacy was #3 by Ring.

As for Wlad, he became #1 when he beat Byrd, not Peter. And Peter had been dropped because he lost to Wlad, and had to work back up by beating Toney, while others lost in front of him. (Brewster, Liakovich, etc). The only reason Wlad isn't Ring Champ is because he has not fought #2 (Peter) since he became #2 and Wlad was #1. When they fought, they were both out of the top 5 I believe.

It has nothing to do with the other belts.

[Stinky gloves]

The only reason Wlad isn't Ring Champ is because he has not fought #2 (Peter) since he became #2 and Wlad was #1. When they fought, they were both out of the top 5 I believe.
It has nothing to do with the other belts.
So you mean that if Wlad beat Peter right now for the second time
then he become rightfully Ring champion even if he do not fight
any other beltholder (Maskaev, Ibragimov, Chagaev)?

Is Peter's status at the current time higher because: he lost to
Wlad and beat twice blown up and fat James Toney ... two time
title contender and conqueror of Holyfield?

Is the line Holyfield -> Toney -> Peter more valuable than any one of these:
Lewis - > Vitaly -> Rahman -> Maskaev
Wlad -> Brewster -> Liakhovitch -> Briggs -> Ibragimov
Ruiz -> Valuev -> Chagaev

?

[kg0208]

So you mean that if Wlad beat Peter right now for the second time
then he become rightfully Ring champion even if he do not fight
any other beltholder (Maskaev, Ibragimov, Chagaev)?

Is Peter's status at the current time higher because: he lost to
Wlad and beat twice blown up and fat James Toney ... two time
title contender and conqueror of Holyfield?

Is the line Holyfield -> Toney -> Peter more valuable than any one of these:
Lewis - > Vitaly -> Rahman -> Maskaev
Wlad -> Brewster -> Liakhovitch -> Briggs -> Ibragimov
Ruiz -> Valuev -> Chagaev

?

The answer to your question is yes, if Wlad beat Peter tomorrow, or vice versa, the winner would become Ring champion.

It's not about the ABC lines, it's simply about the rankings Ring has. ABC has nothing to do with ABC titles or their lineage, though they are the best ways in general to recognize the champion.

In the 130 division, Pacman is the #1 rated fighter, he has NO belt. So it's not about the belts.

I am just telling you the rules.

[Stinky gloves]

The answer to your question is yes, if Wlad beat Peter tomorrow, or vice versa, the winner would become Ring champion.

It's not about the ABC lines, it's simply about the rankings Ring has. ABC has nothing to do with ABC titles or their lineage, though they are the best ways in general to recognize the champion.

In the 130 division, Pacman is the #1 rated fighter, he has NO belt. So it's not about the belts.

I am just telling you the rules.

So what credibility have Ring belt if they decided to put Peter at #2
after he lost to Wlad who wasn't in top#5 at that time and beat twice
blown up Toney with VERY close margin?

So losing to outside top#5 guy and beating twice guy who lost all he could at HW makes you #2?

Other question, will winner of Wlad/Peter be also linear champion?

[Lance_Uppercut]

We know with him it's a love/hate thing with fans but he is clearly the man at Heavy.

IMO the "Ring" wants the most popular fighters to hold there belts so they can sell more mags.There is without a doubt a anti non American Heavy weight Champ bias in the US.Could this be the reason?He is not as marketbale as some of the belt holders in the division.

Dude...it's quite sinmple. He hasn't met the criteria they require. Don't start this "Anti-non American" shit if you don't even know the criteria.

[kg0208]

So what credibility have Ring belt if they decided to put Peter at #2
after he lost to Wlad who wasn't in top#5 at that time and beat twice
blown up Toney with VERY close margin?

So losing to outside top#5 guy and beating twice guy who lost all he could at HW makes you #2?

Other question, will winner of Wlad/Peter be also linear champion?

What crediblity? Who cares. You are getting your timelines mixed up anyways. Toney lost all he could? He lost only 2 times, both to Peter.

Ring and Lineal have nothing to do with each other. I don't know how else to get you to understand that. Having one doesn't guarantee the other.

[Lance_Uppercut]

He beat America's #1 contender in Brock.

He the people's #1 contender in Peter.

He hasnt beat the Ring's #1 contender on there terms so i guess they wont allow him the priveldge of wearing there ugly little belt.

You're a tool...:patsch

[PolishPummler]

You're a tool...:patsch

:finger5

The Ring Belt sucks as much as Alaska!

[Lance_Uppercut]

:finger5

The Ring Belt sucks as much as Alaska!

:lol: So fuckin lame...

[BoxingGuru]

Ring magazine is just like pound for pound. Complete BS, means nothing. Wlad easily handles any heavyweight around right now, period.

[PolishPummler]

:lol: So fuckin lame...

Stupid funny!

:blurp

[kg0208]

Ring magazine is just like pound for pound. Complete BS, means nothing. Wlad easily handles any heavyweight around right now, period.

Which is why they have him #1.

[Illmatic]

Im more American than you TERRORIST SYMPATHIZER.
:lol: yeah, what an American. To come to this country and believe what everyone tells you sure shows great patriotism and courage....good job :good

[PolishPummler]

:lol: yeah, what an American. To come to this country and believe what everyone tells you sure shows great patriotism and courage....good job :good

As if im fresh off the boat:patsch

I can hate Bush without hating America as a whole unlike your fucking closet terrorist ass.

[Thom]

What the fuck? How can you claim that the Ring is "anti-Euro" because they don't just hand Wlad the title without accomplishing anything, when the same organization thart you're attcking actually made a mockery of its own rules when they anointed Vitali as THE HW champ despite the fact that the other belt holders (as pathetic as they were) had better resumes.

Wlad is in the same position Vitali was during his "title reign." I'd pick him to beat anyone in the division, but HE HAS TO FUCKING FIGHT SOMEONE BEFORE HE RECEIVES ACCOLADES.

Jesus Christ man. The nerve of some the fucking posters here is mind boggling. You see guys slagging off fighters with myriad accomplishments, and then they turn around and start crying about national bias and "racism" because the boxing establishment doesn't get down on its knees for their favorite guy.

[PolishPummler]

What the fuck? How can you claim that the Ring is "anti-Euro" because they don't just hand Wlad the title without accomplishing anything, when the same organization thart you're attcking actually made a mockery of its own rules when they anointed Vitali as THE HW champ despite the fact that the other belt holders (as pathetic as they were) had better resumes.

Wlad is in the same position Vitali was during his "title reign." I'd pick him to beat anyone in the division, but HE HAS TO FUCKING FIGHT SOMEONE BEFORE HE RECEIVES ACCOLADES.

Jesus Christ man. The nerve of some the fucking posters here is mind boggling. You see guys slagging off fighters with myriad accomplishments, and then they turn around and start crying about national bias and "racism" because the boxing establishment doesn't get down on its knees for their favorite guy.

So much to touch on but i wont bother.

Read the fucking THREAD!

[Asterion]

He doesn't hold the Ring belt at HW because of the rules.

Wlad hasn't fought a Ring's top contender yet.

[Ambition_Def]

I don't believe there should be a Ring champion without the title unification at least being partially resolved.

I didn't like it when Lennox didn't face Ruiz or Byrd, and I don't like it now.

Whoever it may be: Waldo, Sam, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Maskaev - that one name has to come out on top of all.

My guess is it will be either Sam, or Chagaev, or maybe Povetkin if he proves ready.

[Dorfmeister]

We know with him it's a love/hate thing with fans but he is clearly the man at Heavy.

IMO the "Ring" wants the most popular fighters to hold there belts so they can sell more mags.There is without a doubt a anti non American Heavy weight Champ bias in the US.Could this be the reason?He is not as marketbale as some of the belt holders in the division.

I guess PolishPummler wants Wlad
to be recognized for something he is yet to prove positive, la crème
de la crème des les poids lourds, the most precious jewel in the
crown, el verdadero campeon, and that is another step towards
backstage corruption - Klitschko can't be elected The Ring HWT Champ
while he is sitting in the living room, awaiting for a stupid IBF
tourney winner just cause he produced a good technical display
against a former WBO Champ who was mostly in poor shape to sustain
more than 6 rounds of one-sided box activity and was pulled off by
chief second Buddy McGirt or cause he took 2 rounds and some clumsy
left hook hammerin to get rid of the Rain Man Ray Austin... Please,
you can't elect him the best of the rest only cause he looks to be
the biggest, most athletic, technical sound hwt out there, he still
gat to take the risk and go for it against the other true Champs! Actually, based on Wlad's somber and senseful post-fight interview against Brewsta, he's the only Kltschko fan who is not judging the ratings so please don't tie your wagon to the would-be star, tie your wagon to da truth!

[PolishPummler]

God.....

I think we came to a conclusion YESTERDAY guys.

[Illmatic]

As if im fresh off the boat:patsch

I can hate Bush without hating America as a whole unlike your fucking closet terrorist ass.

im sorry, i assumed you were fresh off the boat since you have such trouble comprehending a rule book thats 3 sentences long and in every single RING issue

[PolishPummler]

im sorry, i assumed you were fresh off the boat since you have such trouble comprehending a rule book thats 3 sentences long and in every single RING issue

This is a discussion board therfor i started the discussion to be further enlightened!

Doesnt change the fact that you are a keyboard Jihadist.

[Illmatic]

This is a discussion board therfor i started the discussion to be further enlightened!

Doesnt change the fact that you are a keyboard Jihadist.

:tired how so...

[PolishPummler]

:tired how so...

One only needs to read what you write in the lounge to see that.

[Illmatic]

One only needs to read what you write in the lounge to see that.

how dare i not step right in line with everything the government says...i mean, they have proven to be sooo truthful. Or is it b/c I dont like the name Washington Redskins? How unpatriotic of me. If only everyone was an illiterate tool like yourself.

Get some examples or dont talk at all. step your game up.

[barneyrub]

Vitali retired with the ring belt after Lewis previously retired with it, now vitali is back maybe he still can call him self ring champ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Illmatic]

Championship vacancies can be filled by winning a box-off between The Ring’s number-one and number-two contenders, or, in certain instances, a box-off between our number-one and number-three contenders.

The only three occasions when a fighter will lose his championship status are when he retires, moves to another weight division, or is defeated in a championship bout.



***no small print here...pretty easy to comprehend for most