Toney-Jirov scorecards, please.

[IntentionalButt]

Upon reviewing the last few rounds, I was shocked to catch a glimpse of Lederman's card going into the 12th...he had Vasiliy up 105-103, meaning that without the knockdown Toney would have lost. :blood

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The official scores are far more reasonable.

I think Harold's been shot as a judge since he switched tables. He wasn't that bad back when his professional opinion actually counted.

[Russell]

Lederman's "critera" is a bit fucked sometimes.

"Jirov was the one doing the pressuring!"

And who was landing all the clean punches again, and more of them, Harold?

[My2Sense]

He wasn't that bad back when his professional opinion actually counted.

Yes he was, he was one of the judges who scored for Ali in his third fight with Norton.

[GDG]

I had Toney winning, but not as clearly as the judges on the night.

I think I had it 7-5 Toney with 2 points deducted for Jirov.

[IntentionalButt]

Yes he was, he was one of the judges who scored for Ali in his third fight with Norton.


Oh. :oops: Well..:lol:

[bladerunner]

It was a competitive fight but Toney clearly won.

[IntentionalButt]

He also had Duran Williams two points ahead of the other judges before being stopped. He just really doesn't like Toney at all. :think Although to his credit he did have him winning comfortably close in the second McCallum bout.

He also probably gave Floyd Sr. too many rounds against Starling.

[Popkins]

For me Toney-Jirov is THE fight that should be used in the examinations at Judges School. Anyone who scores for Jirov is not cut out to be a judge. Anyone who scores for Toney makes the grade. I can easily see why an uneducated eye would think Jirov had won this fight, because of his aggression, pressure and activity levels. But there really can only be one winner. Toney does far less 'work', but his accuracy and elusiveness are superb throughout, and the KD seals the deal pretty indisputably. I thought the actual judges' scorecards were pretty much bang on.

[MrMarvel]

What a fight.

[klompton]

People forget that Lederman got his gig at HBO because of the controversial way he scored Holmes-Spinks.

That being said I had Jirov winning going into the last round and thought Toney pulled it out with the KD.

[Blood Green]

Tony close.

[KOTF]

Last time I saw this I had Toney ahead 7-5 or 8-4. The highlight of the fight was when Steward got all giddy when Toney KD'ed Jirov and said "He better pull a Julio Cesar and run across the ring!!!!"

[Thread Stealer]

I think I had Toney up by 3 or 4 points when I first watched it.

I never re-scored it. If I did, I have a feeling I'd have Toney farther ahead.

[Mendoza]

7-5 or 8-4 for Toney.

[Boro chris]

:think Although to his credit he did have him winning comfortably close in the second McCallum bout.



I allways felt McCallum won that very clearly. Not close at all.

[sweet_scientist]

116-112 Toney
Jirov: 2,4 and 9.
Toney: 1,3,5,7,8,10 and 12 ( 10-8 ).
Rounds 6 and 11 even.

[ChrisPontius]

I allways felt McCallum won that very clearly. Not close at all.

I thought McCallum took that one as well, although it was close.

On Toney-Jirov, i think i had it even going into the 12th.

[WhataRock]

116-112 Toney
Jirov: 2,4 and 9.
Toney: 1,3,5,7,8,10 and 12 ( 10-8 ).
Rounds 6 and 11 even.


Is that right? :think

Seems to add up to 117-112 to me.

[sweet_scientist]

Is that right? :think

Seems to add up to 117-112 to me.

Sorry mate, I had round 8 even at 9-9., not a round for Toney. Thanks for the pick up :good

[Popkins]

I allways felt McCallum won that very clearly. Not close at all.

I agree, but I think Toney won their first fight just as clearly. Never a draw IMO.

[FROST]

115-111 for Toney here, clear enough but closer than the official scorecards. Jirov gave a fantastic effort, the fight was always competitive, this coming from a big Toney fan. Give credit where credit is due. It takes 2 to make a classic.

Scores aside, a short look at the fighters at the final bell sometimes is enough to know who won - Jirov was all busted up and miserable, he knew he lost his belt, while Toney didn't have a scratch.

[ChrisPontius]

James Toney is almost insusceptible to facial damage though, in addition to having one hell of a chin. Even after Jones and Peter (rematch) blasted him for 12 rounds, he looked relatively unscathed.

[Beeston Brawler]

I think the scores are a little wide.... but Toney was certainly the winner by three or four.

Freddie Roach was certainly nervous (he said in Boxing Monthly that he is never 100% sure with modern judges and how they score) therefore he insisted Toney needed to drop Jirov to be confident.

Modern judging is based far too much on aggression, rather than actual clean punching.... there is a difference between running (DLH vs Tito say), fighting effectively off the back foot (Mayweather vs Hatton) and fighting off the ropes (Toney vs Jirov).

Clearly running should be penalised, but just because the ''aggressor'' is throwing allsorts and landing on gloves doesn't mean they win the fight, UNLESS the opponent does next to nothing in return.

[SteveO]

I don't have my card anymore, but when I watched it, I had Toney winning substantially, with the knockdown being the icing on the cake, but not necessary to win.

When Lederman announces his scores ("Ok, Jim") the other commentators seem a bit surprised that Lederman had Jirov up.

[ChrisPontius]

When Lederman announces his scores ("Ok, Jim") the other commentators seem a bit surprised that Lederman had Jirov up.

That's also because they were so far up his ass that they could see the hamburgers he had for lunch.