Nogueira vs. Gonzaga?

[LB3000]

Rumours it could happen in december (107?). I think this would be a great chance for Gonzaga to get another 'big' win. I still think the wars have taken there toll on Nog despite his win over Randy. Would lean towards Gonzaga as I think he has the power to hurt Nog. But then again, with Gonzaga you never know.


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Polymath]

Nog will make him quit. Gonzaga has no heart.

[Sloth]

Big Nog takes out Gonzaga in any aspect of the game. Nog has a good chin, great ground game, and awesome submissions. Plus, he has fought the best and has tons of experience.

Nog by submission late in round 1

[LB3000]

Nog will make him quit. Gonzaga has no heart. Well he broke his nose in the Couture fight but he carried on fighting didn't he? Wouldn't go as far as saying he has no heart. I think its mentally where he suffers. The guy is talented but inconsistent.

[jimmie]

I dont expect Nog to pull of any submissions agianst Gonzaga as Gonzaga is one of the better Jiu Jitsu guys Nogueira has ever faced. Gonzaga is a better striker and is a better wrestler wherever he wants the fight I think he will put it but its extremly hard to put Nogueira away and once Gonzaga sees that after round 1 and starts to get hit back hard I think mentally he will break and be TKOed before round 3 finishes.

[québecwarrior]

Gonzaga TKO 2

[chimba]

I dont like this fight, I dont want anyone to submit Gonzaga or make him quit. I want someone to put a beatdown on this Gorilla, I say Dos Santos vs. Gonzaga

[Beebs]

Nog might just be too old; Gonzaga can actually match him on the ground, Nog doesn't really have KO power, and his chin is a shadow of what it was.

Gonzaga is really inconsistent, but if he shows up, his ability should win the day.

[Sloth]

Nog might just be too old; Gonzaga can actually match him on the ground, Nog doesn't really have KO power, and his chin is a shadow of what it was.

Gonzaga is really inconsistent, but if he shows up, his ability should win the day.



Nog's shadow is still better than Gonzaga. Bet on Nog in this one. Trust me.:deal

[chimba]

Why is everyone impressed so with Gonzaga when his only good win was a LHK against Crocop? Besides that He has beaten no one. He struggled against an old Randy, he got stopped by a guy who cant strike for shit Werdum (who isnt that great to begin with).

His striking is sloppy, his strength is overrated, sure hes explosive in the first minute of the fight, who the hell isnt at this level. His BJJ second rate, I mean the moment the fight went to the ground against Werdum it was automatic. In comparison, Jason Mcdonald BJJ isnt as revered as Gonzaga and he lasted against Maia whos a notch above Werdum.

[jimmie]

Why is everyone impressed so with Gonzaga when his only good win was a LHK against Crocop? Besides that He has beaten no one. He struggled against an old Randy, he got stopped by a guy who cant strike for shit Werdum (who isnt that great to begin with).

His striking is sloppy, his strength is overrated, sure hes explosive in the first minute of the fight, who the hell isnt at this level. His BJJ second rate, I mean the moment the fight went to the ground against Werdum it was automatic. In comparison, Jason Mcdonald BJJ isnt as revered as Gonzaga and he lasted against Maia whos a notch above Werdum.

What are you talking about :huh

[Polymath]

Well he broke his nose in the Couture fight but he carried on fighting didn't he? Wouldn't go as far as saying he has no heart. I think its mentally where he suffers. The guy is talented but inconsistent.

He quit. And he quit against Werdum. He has no heart.

[scurlaruntings]

Nog might just be too old; Gonzaga can actually match him on the ground, Nog doesn't really have KO power, and his chin is a shadow of what it was.

Gonzaga is really inconsistent, but if he shows up, his ability should win the day.Gonzaga is no slouch on the mat but he isnt aversed in as many submmisions as Nog. Either way i dont see Nog winning as Gonzaga is a big hitter and far better on his feet than Nog is currently. Nog from 2000 KO in under 2 rounds. The current version gets wasted.

[LB3000]

I say Dos Santos vs. Gonzaga [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[chimba]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


This is good news, apparently Dana is with me, he cant wait to get rid of Gonzaga

[québecwarrior]

JDS will make him quit.

[sugarngold]

Nogueira turned in a vintage performance against Couture. He is ready for anyone in the UFC.

[Ubersteve]

Idk if JDS is the real deal or not. Gonzaga is the ideal gatekeeper, though.

[Polymath]

Idk if JDS is the real deal or not. Gonzaga is the ideal gatekeeper, though.

No way!

Gonzaga would I think, lose to Nog, but he is nothing like a gatekeeper. He can beat anyone.

[Ubersteve]

Tend to think he loses to the top guys and beats the guys that aren't getting to the top.

[jimmie]

Tend to think he loses to the top guys and beats the guys that aren't getting to the top.

He destroyed Cro Cop when he was number 2 on the planet and coming off his best victorys. Dont say he is past it neither the guy was murdering people until those elbows and headkick now he refuses to pull the trigger.

[Ubersteve]

I wouldn't say Cro Cop was past it, but I would say he's never looked remotely comfortable in the cage.

[Polymath]

Gonzaga is the scariest heavyweight out there on paper. One of the best grapplers, murderous power, and is 260lbs.

But lacks intangibles.

He is way too dangerous to be a gatekeeper.

He's also a good example of how MMA math doesn't work.

[sam1222]

:good

[chimba]

What are you talking about :huh

Cmon Jimmie did you see the fight? The gap in BJJ skill is wide.

1st round, like I said Gonzaga is explosive early and a strong man, he took Werdum down, Werdum very comfortable on the ground. Gonzaga on sheer strength passes to half guard then to side control. Werdum calm using butterfly = damage ZERO.

Later in the same round Werdum now ending up on top,
Gonzaga = helpless eating elbows, saved by the bell.

2nd round, Gonzagas demeanor completely changed. Werdum flops to mat Gonzaga doesnt dare follow..why?? eventually getting beat up more turtling on the ground giving up his back dont know what to do. Save by the ref from getting permanently damaged.

Werdum is top of the food chain on BJJ gi/no gi. and significantly better than GG.

[chimba]

Again besides Crocop, show me an impressive win by this guy against quality. If MMA math doesnt work, I wont argue. All I can say is that in his brief career, he loses to good fighters and beats up below average ones. This is on paper, dont take it from me.

I wouldnt even count the tuscherer win because he nearly made him impotent.

[Vitor Belfort]

I expect big nog to take this fight to the ground and submit gonzaga.

[jimmie]

Cmon Jimmie did you see the fight? The gap in BJJ skill is wide.

1st round, like I said Gonzaga is explosive early and a strong man, he took Werdum down, Werdum very comfortable on the ground. Gonzaga on sheer strength passes to half guard then to side control. Werdum calm using butterfly = damage ZERO.

Later in the same round Werdum now ending up on top,
Gonzaga = helpless eating elbows, saved by the bell.

2nd round, Gonzagas demeanor completely changed. Werdum flops to mat Gonzaga doesnt dare follow..why?? eventually getting beat up more turtling on the ground giving up his back dont know what to do. Save by the ref from getting permanently damaged.

Werdum is top of the food chain on BJJ gi/no gi. and significantly better than GG.

I dont see any gap at all and im not sure how you can say this. Ive looked at both fights of theirs and dont see it. Fight 1, round 1 Gonzaga takes Werdum down early into half guard then Werdum gains full guard and starts looking to attempt a triangle but Gonzaga detects it and pulls out and stands up. Gonzaga takes him down a 2nd time and shortly thereafter moves to a half guard then shortly after that steps over into full mount. Gonzaga holds this postion for about a minute or 1 until Werdum rolls onto his front while Gonzaga odly decides to standup. Later in the 1st Gonzaga scores with a single leg takedown. Gonzaga hangs out in his ground but stands back up then attempts a wild pass and ends up in half guard where Werdum attempts a nice kneebar which Gonzaga defends they scramble to front headlock with Werdum on top and round 1 ends.

Round 2 Werdum attempts a kick while Gonzaga ducks under takes him down and into his guard, Werdum attempts a sweep which brings them back to their feet. Gonzaga scores with another single leg then passes into side control, Werdum gives up his back and Gonzaga secures a Kimura but Werdum rolls to his back to defend it and puts Gonzaga into his full guard. They remain in this postion for quite sometime with nothing of note happening which results in a standup. The fight then turns onesided with Werdum brutalizing a embarrsingly tired Gonzaga for about 2 minutes with strikes until eventually taking it down and finishing with strikes from mount.


2nd fight 20 secounds in Gonzaga takes Werdum down and uses tight passing skills to go to side control briefly but not long enough to gain points in a grappling match and Werdum reclaims half guard, Werdum trys 3-4 times to sweep and cants before Gonzaga stands it up, with an minute and a half left Gonzaga attempts a kick and Werdum uses it to trip him and Gonzaga goes into a turtle postion for a secound Werdum trys to take his back and Gonzaga rolls through and puts him into half guard. Werdum attempts to pass once and cant, Gonzaga moves for a kneebar which Werdum has defended before it really starts. End of round 1.

No real ground work in round 2. Werdum hurt him standing with the knees and yes finished him off on top but agian this is MMA and Werdum hurt him with strikes and finished a tired,hurt fighter with GNP not BJJ. Why would Gonzaga follow Werdum to the mat when at the time he was doing better on his feet ? The ground game proved in round 1 to cancel each other out why not try whats working better for you ?

As far a pure grappling goes I seen no gap expect the gap in wrestling with Gonzaga being far superior. When it was purely a BJJ match Gonzaga held more dominant postions and had the closest submission attempt with that kimura in fight 1.

[chimba]

thats a nice description of the fights but thats not the crux of it. Gonzaga has no bottom game and loves to turtle ala shogun but less mobile. His armbar attemp was just that an attempt.

His top game is good at postioning but cant seem to do any damage, he had mount in the first fight and had done zilch.

Werdum is the much more decorated grappler (and I give the edge in wrestling to GG) but you have to take advantage of the position just like Werdum does

As for standup his steam is good for 3 minutes tops. Hes just not that good, that is the gist of what my point is.

[Polymath]

By saying he disproves MMA math I mean he's less than the sum of his parts. Nog is more. Thats why one is a great fighter and one isnt.

[boxingcar]

Gonzaga is the scariest heavyweight out there on paper. One of the best grapplers, murderous power, and is 260lbs.

But lacks intangibles.

He is way too dangerous to be a gatekeeper.

He's also a good example of how MMA math doesn't work.

As far as i'm concerned, that guy's credibility was murdered right after losing a second time against Werdum. There's two possibilities.

1 - Either Fabricio just happens to have that guy's number.

2 - Gonzaga hasn't evolved one bit since 2003. (his first loss vs werdum)

Then his loss against Randy was the icing on the cake.

The only difference i can notice from 2003 to 2008/2009 is that he's clearly physically bigger than he used to be.

To his credit , he hits like a mule. But he's predictable. (which is why Crocop's beyond embarrassing KO loss via hk against that guy wasn't enough to convince me that he was the next "champ")...

He's like a gatekeeper 2.0....Slightly more dangerous than gatekeeper material...but not good enough to become hw champion.

Having said all that , i wouldn't be surprised to see him beat Nogueira. (after nog's pathetic performance vs herring , sylvia & especially Mir , nothing is surprising anymore)...

At the same time...Nog vs Couture was probably one of the best HW fight of the year. Huge fucking contrast compared to nog's previous fights. He was much more active , aggressive , great workrate.. He even looked in better physical shape.

So who knows...maybe he's "back"...(personally i'd say he hasn't been the same since 2005/2006 )..

If Nogueira shows up in top physical shape & with a solid gameplan (and motivated just like the last time)...I don't see Gonzaga beating him...

Right now i'll follow my instinct and say Nog by tko. (like Werdum did in the rematch)

[jimmie]

thats a nice description of the fights but thats not the crux of it. Gonzaga has no bottom game and loves to turtle ala shogun but less mobile. His armbar attemp was just that an attempt.

His top game is good at postioning but cant seem to do any damage, he had mount in the first fight and had done zilch.

Werdum is the much more decorated grappler (and I give the edge in wrestling to GG) but you have to take advantage of the position just like Werdum does

As for standup his steam is good for 3 minutes tops. Hes just not that good, that is the gist of what my point is.

Well who is as decorated as Werdum ? Its not like Gonzaga hasnt won any major tournaments he did win the 04 Mundials and im sure you know the importance of that so cleary hes a world class jiujitsu competitor. Sure he couldnt do anything with the mount but agian this is Werdum we are talking about anyone else Gonzaga mounts he destroys like McCully with a keylock and Marrero with the armbar. Give him credit for actually maintaining the mount for sometime. I dont like the mount honestly I dont think theres to many options unless the guy just panics and throws up his arms or gives up his back. I agree his bottom game is weaker but he was turtling up when he was getting his ass kicked with strikes. At one point in the rematch Gonzaga was turtled up and rolled right into guard very quickly so its not as bad as you think.

[radab]

Gonzaga will destroy Old Nog