Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

[David B]

Hopkins beat Tarver who beat Jones,but Jones was never the lineal champ.Erdei is the real lineal champ,he beat Gonzales who beat Dariusz M. who beat Virgill Hill.Since there was no linear light-heavy champ Dariusz M. unified the WBA,IBF and WBO titles by beating Hill and automatically became the linear champ.He then vacated the wba and ibf titles but still became the man to beat.Eventually Gonzales defeated Dariusz M. and Erdei defeated Gonzales making him the linear champ.
So why on earth was Jones regarded as the ring champ at light-heavy,then Tarver and eventually Hopkins?
It doesn't make sense........

[brooklyn1550]

Are you saying that Roy Jones Jr never deserved to be the RING champion at 175?

[yesihavearm]

Jones was the ring champion at LHW because he was the BEST LHW.

Tarver was then the ring champion because he was the BEST LHW.

Hopkins is now the ring champion because he is the BEST LHW.

Pretty simple really.

Going on your way of judging it, it wouldnt just be Hopkins who wouldnt be Ring champ, people like Calzaghe etc.. wouldnt be either.

[jopez707]

Hopkins is the now at light heavyweight without a doubt, Dawson should be at #2....

[kg0208]

Hopkins beat Tarver who beat Jones,but Jones was never the lineal champ.Erdei is the real lineal champ,he beat Gonzales who beat Dariusz M. who beat Virgill Hill.Since there was no linear light-heavy champ Dariusz M. unified the WBA,IBF and WBO titles by beating Hill and automatically became the linear champ.He then vacated the wba and ibf titles but still became the man to beat.Eventually Gonzales defeated Dariusz M. and Erdei defeated Gonzales making him the linear champ.
So why on earth was Jones regarded as the ring champ at light-heavy,then Tarver and eventually Hopkins?
It doesn't make sense........
Because when DM beat Hill, there was no Ring belt. Later on, when Ring started giving out belts, Jones was one of the only fighters who got one right off the bat because in 01, when they issued them, Jones had all 3 major ABC titles (the WBO is just now getting this type of recognition) and was widely considered (rightly or wrongly) the best LHW in the world. DM only had the WBO.

DM's Lineal status was in question for a while and still isn't competely accepted, but most see him as the Lineal champion(Erdai now). The reason for this is the confusion over how you can become Lineal champion when the title is vacated.

Hill beat Maske in unification of the WBA and the IBF titles, and was a match between #1 and #2. If #1 and #2 are considered the way to create Lineage, then it was created there. If not, then unifying all 3 major titles (4 now perhaps, not sure) was the way to do it. If thats the case, Hill was NOT Lineal, and DM never unified the WBC title.

It's just complicated. Just keep in mind, the Lineal Champ and Ring champ are different.

[David B]

Jones was the ring champion at LHW because he was the BEST LHW.

Tarver was then the ring champion because he was the BEST LHW.

Hopkins is now the ring champion because he is the BEST LHW.

Pretty simple really.

Going on your way of judging it, it wouldnt just be Hopkins who wouldnt be Ring champ, people like Calzaghe etc.. wouldnt be either.

You have to beat the man who beat the man....Erdei did that,Jones not....pretty simple really.

[yesihavearm]

You have to beat the man who beat the man....Erdei did that,Jones not....pretty simple really.

Eh ? Says who ?

Under your reasoning, people like Manny Pac and Joe Calzaghe would not be the Ring champions.

Ring magazine belt was not around when DM was fighting, so it doesnt matter who was the linear champion or not. it was awarded to Jones because he was the best.

Can you call Erdei the best ? Laughable.

SIMPLE REALLY

[thewoo]

Jones was the ring champion at LHW because he was the BEST LHW.

Tarver was then the ring champion because he was the BEST LHW.

Hopkins is now the ring champion because he is the BEST LHW.

Pretty simple really.

Going on your way of judging it, it wouldnt just be Hopkins who wouldnt be Ring champ, people like Calzaghe etc.. wouldnt be either.

Not really. I do see his point. Dm met the criteria for a ring belt and did not lose it in the ring so he should have always kept it. This would be true except that the ring stopped awarding belts in the 90's. They did not start again until 2002. DM gained and gave up his belts during the time when Ring was no longer awarding championships.

Roy Jones gained all (or most) of his belts prior to the ring begining to name champions again but he still held them in 2002 making him eligible for the belt.

[Stinky gloves]

Jones was the ring champion at LHW because he was the BEST LHW.

Tarver was then the ring champion because he was the BEST LHW.

Hopkins is now the ring champion because he is the BEST LHW.

Pretty simple really.
.
Probably Winky would be best LHW if he beat Hopkins, then Winky should fight DLH who would have aloso chance to become best LHW and then DLH should rematch Floyd. Gues whay Floyd fully deserve to be best LHW. Finally give a chance for Hatton and Cotto to be best LHW and do not forget about Manny. Any one of them fully deserve to have a great chnce to become best LHW. :deal

[David B]

The best doesn't make you the linear champ,i agree with you that Jones'would smash Erdei into pieces but that does not make him linear.
Mayweather is much better then Baldomir but when he held the ibf title and Carlos the wbc title Carlos was the linear champ.
If Floyd would never have fought Carlos he would never have taken the ring title away from Carlos.

[kg0208]

Probably Winky would be best LHW if he beat Hopkins, then Winky should fight DLH who would have aloso chance to become best LHW and then DLH should rematch Floyd. Gues whay Floyd fully deserve to be best LHW. Finally give a chance for Hatton and Cotto to be best LHW and do not forget about Manny. Any one of them fully deserve to have a great chnce to become best LHW. :deal

You know that scenario doesn't match the ones being played out.

And even so, that could be done with the Lineal title as well, so lets not make it out like there is a huge difference.

Wright could have beaten Erdai, and then the same scenario you proposed and imply taints the Ring title, would then apply to the Lineal title.

[Stinky gloves]

Eh ? Says who ?

Under your reasoning, people like Manny Pac and Joe Calzaghe would not be the Ring champions.

Ring magazine belt was not around when DM was fighting, so it doesnt matter who was the linear champion or not. it was awarded to Jones because he was the best.

Can you call Erdei the best ? Laughable.

SIMPLE REALLY
Simple is that the linear champion idea is beatifull. You want to
be linear champion you have to beat the guy who have this tiltle.
So untill someone beat Erdei he is rightfully deserving to be called champion.
.... what nobody beat him yet ... what a pity :hi:

[Rickypr18]

Probably Winky would be best LHW if he beat Hopkins, then Winky should fight DLH who would have aloso chance to become best LHW and then DLH should rematch Floyd. Gues whay Floyd fully deserve to be best LHW. Finally give a chance for Hatton and Cotto to be best LHW and do not forget about Manny. Any one of them fully deserve to have a great chnce to become best LHW. :deal
just:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

[thewoo]

The best doesn't make you the linear champ

Lineal does not make you the ring champ

[Stinky gloves]

You know that scenario doesn't match the ones being played out.

And even so, that could be done with the Lineal title as well, so lets not make it out like there is a huge difference.

Wright could have beaten Erdai, and then the same scenario you proposed and imply taints the Ring title, would then apply to the Lineal title.
Erdei is ABC beltholder and he cannot fight fighters who are not
approved by this aorganization. It means he cannot fight blown up Winky
Wright since Wright is not in the ranking of that organization.
I really doubt that anyone organziation would allowed Winky to
fight for the belt since he have no one fight at that weight class.

Assume Erdei get stripped from WBO belt by agrying to fight Winky.
If Winky win and stay at LHW then he become rightfull liner champion.
However if he do not fight other "rightfull" LHW contender then
he will probably lose "liner" title.

The Ring belt have no such restriction so if Hopkins wants rematch
with DLH then he can have one claiming its for the Ring belt.


Liner title is more like a core title within weight class.
Ring belt is more like "popularity" contest.

[kg0208]

Erdei is ABC beltholder and he cannot fight fighters who are not
approved by this aorganization. It means he cannot fight blown up Winky
Wright since Wright is not in the ranking of that organization.
I really doubt that anyone organziation would allowed Winky to
fight for the belt since he have no one fight at that weight class.

Assume Erdei get strpped from WBO belt by agrying to fight Winky.
If Winky win and stay at LHW then he become rightfull liner champion.
However if he do not fight other "rightfull" LHW contender then
he will probably lose "liner" title.

The Ring belt have no such restriction so if Hopkins wants rematch
with DLH then he can have one claiming its for the Ring belt.


Liner title is more like a core title within weight class.
Ring belt is more like "popularity" contest.

Your scenario is wrong. If Erdai was stripped and fought Wright anyways and Winky won. He is the Lineal champ.

If Winky then fights nothing but blown up MW, he is still Lineal. You cannot be stripped of the Lineal title.

[kg0208]

Who is the promoter of Hopkins? Who bought the RING belt? All 4 belts need to be unified first.

All 4 belts has nothing to do with Ring's policy.

It's #1 vs #2 or #3 under special circumstances, regardless of ABC titles.

[Stinky gloves]

Your scenario is wrong. If Erdai was stripped and fought Wright anyways and Winky won. He is the Lineal champ.

If Winky then fights nothing but blown up MW, he is still Lineal. You cannot be stripped of the Lineal title.
I think you may if you retire or do not longer fight within this weight class.
The important questions is who designate initially "linear" champion and
who may decide that "linear" champion is vacant?

Assume DLH blow up to 175 lb and fight either Hopkins (ring champion)
or Wright (who hipothetically won linear belt from Erdei).
Will you consider DLH equally to be rightfull Ring LHW champion
and rightfull linear LHW champion?

I think Ring title is more like p4p title, you do not need be within this class to become Ring champion.
While you have to be legitimate contender at this class to be "linear" champion.

[kg0208]

I think you may if you retire or do not longer fight within this weight class.
The important questions is who designate initially "linear" champion and
who may decide that "linear" champion is vacant?

Assume DLH blow up to 175 lb and fight either Hopkins (ring champion)
or Wright (who hipothetically won linear belt from Erdei).
Will you consider DLH equally to be rightfull Ring LHW champion
and rightfull linear LHW champion?

I think Ring title is more like p4p title, you do not need be within this class to become Ring champion.
While you have to be legitimate contender at this class to be "linear" champion.

You are confusing some rules. You don't have to be a legit contender in ANY class to win the Lineal title. If you beat the Lineal champion, jumping up 2 weight classes to do it, you will be Lineal champion.

If Jones had jumped up and miraculously beaten Lewis and not Ruiz, he would have been Lineal. Same thing with Ring. Both titles are won and lost in the ring, and you can lose it by retiring or vacating the class.

[Stinky gloves]

You are confusing some rules. You don't have to be a legit contender in ANY class to win the Lineal title. If you beat the Lineal champion, jumping up 2 weight classes to do it, you will be Lineal champion.

If Jones had jumped up and miraculously beaten Lewis and not Ruiz, he would have been Lineal. Same thing with Ring. Both titles are won and lost in the ring, and you can lose it by retiring or vacating the class.
But the question is would Tarver be liner HW champion if he beat Jones (after he miraculously beaten Lewis)
and Hopkins would be currently linear HW champion while never fought any one HW contender?

.... or maybe Jones would be automatically stripped from linear HW title for fighting Tarver?

[Axe]

Hopkins beat Tarver who beat Jones,but Jones was never the lineal champ.Erdei is the real lineal champ,he beat Gonzales who beat Dariusz M. who beat Virgill Hill.Since there was no linear light-heavy champ Dariusz M. unified the WBA,IBF and WBO titles by beating Hill and automatically became the linear champ.He then vacated the wba and ibf titles but still became the man to beat.Eventually Gonzales defeated Dariusz M. and Erdei defeated Gonzales making him the linear champ.
So why on earth was Jones regarded as the ring champ at light-heavy,then Tarver and eventually Hopkins?
It doesn't make sense........

Because Ring magazine never gave out titles back when Hill fought Maske (#1 facing the #2 in the division to crown new linear/Ring champion).

[kg0208]

But the question is would Tarver be liner HW champion if he beat Jones (after he miraculously beaten Lewis)
and Hopkins would be currently linear HW champion while never fought any one HW contender?

.... or maybe Jones would be automatically stripped from linear HW title for fighting Tarver?

Yes Tarver would be Lineal in that scenario. And If Hopkins then beat him, without ever facing a HW contender, he would be Lineal as well.

You can't be stripped of Lineal titles.

[Thread Stealer]

Nigel Collins has actually said that if The Ring belt was in place in the late 90s, that Michalczewski would have been LHW champ.

[C Money]

The longer the discussion, the more and more I say piss on LINEAL:good

Quite honestly, it doesnt represent THE TOP FIGHTER. It could be one and the same, but then that's UNIFIED:good Wish Boxing was run right:yep

Fighters concerned with lasting legacies should beat every "champ" they can and let history sort it out:D

Erdei aint the ebst LHW without beating the other champs and PBF aint the best WW without beating the other champs, IMO.

Lineal, smineal, whatever:hey

[Thom]

The longer the discussion, the more and more I say piss on LINEAL:good

Quite honestly, it doesnt represent THE TOP FIGHTER. It could be one and the same, but then that's UNIFIED:good Wish Boxing was run right:yep

Fighters concerned with lasting legacies should beat every "champ" they can and let history sort it out:D

Erdei aint the ebst LHW without beating the other champs and PBF aint the best WW without beating the other champs, IMO.

Lineal, smineal, whatever:hey
Ummm...you do realize that if Baldomir had paid his sanctioning fees, there would be two fewer "champions" at 147, right? If Team Baldomir had come up with enough cash to pick up the other belts and Mayweather had three titles right now, are you honestly telling me you wouldn't still be here trashing him every day?

Also, I remember quite clearly that if it weren't for political nonsense behind the scenes, Johnson and Tarver would have unified most of the LHW belts in their first fight. How do you reconcile the fact that the sanctioning bodies themselves often prevent unification with your stance that lineal titles don't matter?

[kg0208]

IMO both arguments have been ruined. Unification is diluted because of the stripping of champions leading to champions who are clearly not as good as some of the contenders. Lineal can't be stripped, but when someone beats an aging champion, then fights nobodies thereafter, the other champions (belt holders) end up being better than the Lineal champion.

We argue this all the time, but we are only arguing a problem which probably has little solution unless the sanctioning bodies step up and change things.

[C Money]

IMO both arguments have been ruined. Unification is diluted because of the stripping of champions leading to champions who are clearly not as good as some of the contenders. Lineal can't be stripped, but when someone beats an aging champion, then fights nobodies thereafter, the other champions (belt holders) end up being better than the Lineal champion.

We argue this all the time, but we are only arguing a problem which probably has little solution unless the sanctioning bodies step up and change things.

KG I comprehend where you're coming from but even if the Org strips the fighter? A wins a win and to the fan?? ITS OBVIOUS!!!

Let the orgs keep pulling that shit, they'll flush themselves completly down the toilet:good

Beat the best, and all the "champions", if you wanna be the man!!

[C Money]

Ummm...you do realize that if Baldomir had paid his sanctioning fees, there would be two fewer "champions" at 147, right? If Team Baldomir had come up with enough cash to pick up the other belts and Mayweather had three titles right now, are you honestly telling me you wouldn't still be here trashing him every day?

Also, I remember quite clearly that if it weren't for political nonsense behind the scenes, Johnson and Tarver would have unified most of the LHW belts in their first fight. How do you reconcile the fact that the sanctioning bodies themselves often prevent unification with your stance that lineal titles don't matter?

Uhmm, if it wasnt for public pressure to capture the "lineal" belt? Floyd wouldnt have fought BALDO at all. You might remember he announced Spinks at 54 and then caved under the outcry.

Also? Arum/Margarito drove the $$$ up for Floyd's liking vs Baldo.

If's, could'ves, would'ves, should'ves, still WASNT.

Theres far too much BS with all of it and thats no doubt. That's why, they should beat the "champs" and bot worry about the games.

You cant take away fair victory:good

[Thom]

KG I comprehend where you're coming from but even if the Org strips the fighter? A wins a win and to the fan?? ITS OBVIOUS!!!

Let the orgs keep pulling that shit, they'll flush themselves completly down the toilet:good

Beat the best, and all the "champions", if you wanna be the man!!

That makes no sense whatsoever. Your previous contention was that the belts are what matter. If the sanction bodies keep arbitrarily stripping fighters (in some cases for taking real fights instead of their bogus mandatories), then, by your standard, there will almost never be an established #1. Even if the major titles are unified, the WBA runs their sanctioning fee scam by creating another "world champion" in the same weight class. Your argument is shit.

[Thom]

Uhmm, if it wasnt for public pressure to capture the "lineal" belt? Floyd wouldnt have fought BALDO at all. You might remember he announced Spinks at 54 and then caved under the outcry.

Also? Arum/Margarito drove the $$$ up for Floyd's liking vs Baldo.

If's, could'ves, would'ves, should'ves, still WASNT.

Theres far too much BS with all of it and thats no doubt. That's why, they should beat the "champs" and bot worry about the games.

You cant take away fair victory:good

:huh

I don't take anything away from anyone. I respect Baldomir's victory over Judah and Mayweather's victory over Baldomir. You're the one who's claiming that Mayweather hasn't accomplished anything because he hasn't faced any of the other "champions" at 147 who all picked up their titles while the were vacant. You completely failed to address my question about whether or you would respect Mayweather more if Baldo had paid the sanction fees and brought three titles to their fight or my question about the notion of holding unification as the only standard to determine a real champion when the sanction bodies themselves often do not want their titles unified.

Also, what "public pressure" are you talking about? Sure, there were a few idiots who tried to claim Floyd was "ducking" Baldomir when the Spinks fight was on the table, but most people who didn't like the fight were still complaining about him not facing Margarito even after the Baldomir fight was signed. As soon as the Baldo fight was signed, there were people who started to bitch about Mayweather "ducking" Spinks. That wasn't public pressure. It was just a bunch rambling nonsense form the people who grasp at straws for reasons to attack Mayweather.

[sues2nd]

You have to beat the man who beat the man....Erdei did that,Jones not....pretty simple really.

Sorry to say dude...but Jones was the man at LHW before losing to Tarver....therefore, Erdei didnt beat the man.

Pretty simple really.

[C Money]

That makes no sense whatsoever. Your previous contention was that the belts are what matter. If the sanction bodies keep arbitrarily stripping fighters (in some cases for taking real fights instead of their bogus mandatories), then, by your standard, there will almost never be an established #1. Even if the major titles are unified, the WBA runs their sanctioning fee scam by creating another "world champion" in the same weight class. Your argument is shit.

What the hell are you talking about??:huh

Did you read or are you just spitting what you think??

Yes, Unification would and has worked previously, a la , Hopkins, Lewis, Tszyu, etc, etc. Yet that didnt sit well with orgs today and in fact they are actually double stacking Champs in some cases as another way around it without stripping said fighters as you pointed out. Tell me that you accept V Hill as world champ over Mormeck as unified champ at CW?? If you do?? Case closed, go on about you're merry way. Do you need an org to tell you this????

Lets say PBF beats Hatton and goes to fight the Winner of SSM vs Cotto but the BC stripped him (hypothetical), you mean to tell me that you still wouldnt respect the winner as Champ??? In my mind that winner should the fight P Williams, go ahead let the org strip, FUCK THEM. Who would they really be fooling??

Lineal?? just as full of shit because it doesnt necessarily mean you are the best, i.e. Erdei. Beat Hopkins, Dawson, etc and then you are the best.


Either you misunderstood my point/argument or go ahead with ya blind self and keep getting fleeced by BS.

All of this WAS SUPPOSED TO BE WHAT THE RING CHAMP WAS SOLVING. Has it? Will it continue?? You're guess is as good as mine, but victories over the top guys are everlasting:good

[C Money]

:huh

I don't take anything away from anyone. I respect Baldomir's victory over Judah and Mayweather's victory over Baldomir. You're the one who's claiming that Mayweather hasn't accomplished anything because he hasn't faced any of the other "champions" at 147 who all picked up their titles while the were vacant. You completely failed to address my question about whether or you would respect Mayweather more if Baldo had paid the sanction fees and brought three titles to their fight or my question about the notion of holding unification as the only standard to determine a real champion when the sanction bodies themselves often do not want their titles unified.

Also, what "public pressure" are you talking about? Sure, there were a few idiots who tried to claim Floyd was "ducking" Baldomir when the Spinks fight was on the table, but most people who didn't like the fight were still complaining about him not facing Margarito even after the Baldomir fight was signed. As soon as the Baldo fight was signed, there were people who started to bitch about Mayweather "ducking" Spinks. That wasn't public pressure. It was just a bunch rambling nonsense form the people who grasp at straws for reasons to attack Mayweather.

I would have still called for PBF to beat the other Champions, its called DEFENDING THE TITLE. Its what most great Champs do. I. E. BEAT THE BEST!!!!! It doesnt stop with gee I won the belt.

The public pressure to which Floyd caved too:lol: Defend him all ya like, even the most ardent supporters started swinging the other way when it appeared he wouldnt fight Baldo. Only the truely biased, nuthuggers felt it would have been OK.

Tell Me Baldo and Judah are better than SSM, Cotto, and Williams.

Then tell me about a shit argument:rofl :rofl :rofl

[C Money]

Sorry to say dude...but Jones was the man at LHW before losing to Tarver....therefore, Erdei didnt beat the man.

Pretty simple really.

Even "if" he was(:nono ) Could he have stayed the man by not facing Jones, Tarver, Hopkins, etc??

I know you know the answer, I'm just hoping others get it.

[sues2nd]

Even "if" he was(:nono ) Could he have stayed the man by not facing Jones, Tarver, Hopkins, etc??

I know you know the answer, I'm just hoping others get it.

Who was? Jones? Of course he was the number one LHW....is anyone REALLY arguing that?

I think I am a little confused....:huh

[Thread Stealer]

Who was? Jones? Of course he was the number one LHW....is anyone REALLY arguing that?

I think I am a little confused....:huh

Not too many people argued that Roy wasn't the best light heavyweight.

However, linear is another story. You can definitely make the claim for Michalczewski became linear champ when he beat Hill.

[C Money]

Who was? Jones? Of course he was the number one LHW....is anyone REALLY arguing that?

I think I am a little confused....:huh

I know Jones was but what I was saying is even if he "wasnt" and Erdei was, could Erdei have stayed that way by not fighting/ducking the best opposition i.e, Jones Tarver, Hopkins etc.??

ANSWER=NO!!!!!

That's why I said I KNOW YOU KNOW, I was hoping others would catch the drift.

[sues2nd]

Not too many people argued that Roy wasn't the best light heavyweight.

However, linear is another story. You can definitely make the claim for Michalczewski became linear champ when he beat Hill.

Seriously tho, if we are talking the ring champion (like the original poster brought up), then of course its Hop. It was Jones, then Tarver took it, then Hopkins.

If we are going by beating the man (as the original poster also claimed), then it also lends credance to the Hopkins deserving that honor as well.

[sues2nd]

I know Jones was but what I was saying is even if he "wasnt" and Erdei was, could Erdei have stayed that way by not fighting/ducking the best opposition i.e, Jones Tarver, Hopkins etc.??

ANSWER=NO!!!!!

That's why I said I KNOW YOU KNOW, I was hoping others would catch the drift.

Yeah....I get confused easily......ooooh my pizza is here......

Ummm, what were we talking about again?

:huh

Kidding...and agreeing.

[Thread Stealer]

Seriously tho, if we are talking the ring champion (like the original poster brought up), then of course its Hop. It was Jones, then Tarver took it, then Hopkins.

If we are going by beating the man (as the original poster also claimed), then it also lends credance to the Hopkins deserving that honor as well.

Yeah, but the question of the topic is why didn't The Ring doesn't call Erdei the champ.

It goes back to the whole RJJ/Darius mess.

Nigel Collins even said that The Ring would've called DM the champ if the policy was around in the late 90s.

[C Money]

Not too many people argued that Roy wasn't the best light heavyweight.

However, linear is another story. You can definitely make the claim for Michalczewski became linear champ when he beat Hill.

Thats precisely my point about Lineal meaning no more than anything else in itself!!!

Ok Erdei was lineal, was he the best?? NO. Could he still call himslef the best right now?? NO.

WTF does lineal mean?? In some cases, NADA. In other's like where Hopkins had UNIFIED and Taylor beat him?? Yes it meant Taylor was the best. Has Taylor defended against the best? YES. DOes he still have all the belts?? NO. Does not having them all mean shit in that case?? Absolutely not:good

Fight the best, beat the best, fuck the orgs, lineal, and let victories be you're guide. Hopefully?? Ring will have picked up on that and continues too.

[kg0208]

KG I comprehend where you're coming from but even if the Org strips the fighter? A wins a win and to the fan?? ITS OBVIOUS!!!

Let the orgs keep pulling that shit, they'll flush themselves completly down the toilet:good

Beat the best, and all the "champions", if you wanna be the man!!

Well therein lies the problem, as the best of the best won't be champions if they get stripped.

Unfortunately, the sanctioning bodies have gotten away with this for years, and as long as the fighters think the belts are important, they will continue to get away with it. Remember, we have gotten MORE ABC belts, not less, the worse they have gotten.

It's all a complicated mess.....being the one true champion is now more a matter of opinion. It may be the unified champion, the Ring Champion, the Lineal champion, the ESB champion...ok, not the last one:deal

Either way, we are now getting better fights (so far) but still not the unifications we desire or true champion in each weight class.

[C Money]

Well therein lies the problem, as the best of the best won't be champions if they get stripped.

Unfortunately, the sanctioning bodies have gotten away with this for years, and as long as the fighters think the belts are important, they will continue to get away with it. Remember, we have gotten MORE ABC belts, not less, the worse they have gotten.

It's all a complicated mess.....being the one true champion is now more a matter of opinion. It may be the unified champion, the Ring Champion, the Lineal champion, the ESB champion...ok, not the last one:deal

Either way, we are now getting better fights (so far) but still not the unifications we desire or true champion in each weight class.

Perhaps my "intensity" on this issue clouds things for some, not necessarily you. Please keep in mind I view this as a boxing issue not a "Floyd" issue.

When you say they are stripped and then not "champions", I SAY BS!!!
If, say Wladimir Klitschko were "stripped" for intending to face Chagaev or the Ibragimov vs Holfield winner?? THAT WOULD BE BS!!!
The winner of that "unifying" event is still the Champion, fuck the org that stripped him.

I think the Hopkins Ring Champ example is perfect. He beat the man, who beat the man. Erdei is lineal but that and $3 will get him coffee at Starbucks.

I respect you and many other fans on this site and after all we've(you and I especially) been through around these issues?? I think that the results of those debates have pretty much destroyed both Org BS and Lineal. I hope that the ESB rankings and members judge to the proper standard and have faith they will.

For those that cant get past my views of PBF? I'll say it AGAIN, I dont have to like him to respect what he accomplishes in the ring. I seek the same standard for him as everyone else, FIGHT AND BEAT THE BEST!! Thats what the greatest of this sport have always DONE! Dont make excuses and hide behind shit, aint nothin 2 but to do it:good

[kg0208]

Perhaps my "intensity" on this issue clouds things for some, not necessarily you. Please keep in mind I view this as a boxing issue not a "Floyd" issue.

When you say they are stripped and then not "champions", I SAY BS!!!
If, say Wladimir Klitschko were "stripped" for intending to face Chagaev or the Ibragimov vs Holfield winner?? THAT WOULD BE BS!!!
The winner of that "unifying" event is still the Champion, fuck the org that stripped him.

I think the Hopkins Ring Champ example is perfect. He beat the man, who beat the man. Erdei is lineal but that and $3 will get him coffee at Starbucks.

I respect you and many other fans on this site and after all we've(you and I especially) been through around these issues?? I think that the results of those debates have pretty much destroyed both Org BS and Lineal. I hope that the ESB rankings and members judge to the proper standard and have faith they will.

For those that cant get past my views of PBF? I'll say it AGAIN, I dont have to like him to respect what he accomplishes in the ring. I seek the same standard for him as everyone else, FIGHT AND BEAT THE BEST!! Thats what the greatest of this sport have always DONE! Dont make excuses and hide behind shit, aint nothin 2 but to do it:good
I am not saying that Wlad wouldn't be champion in that scenario. And notice I refrained from mentioning PBF as this issue goes deeper than one champion. Your view is a little intense on PBF, but I think you run into barriers because while you say you also respect PBF, you rarely mention it and not nearly as much as you criticize him. Perhaps there is more to criticize than respect in your eyes, but I would assume that is an issue when you speak to his fans and therefore makes them think your judgement is clouded concerning him. I am not his fan, so it makes no difference to me.

I don't think unification or Lineal is the answer. Yes, stripping Wlad would not make him less of a champion. But what of the NEW champion that gets Wlad's belt? Is he a champion? When do we stop counting the new champion as a real champion and therefore there is no need to unify his title? At some point, that new champion who won his title vacant shouldn't be looked at as a champion, otherwise there will always be another belt to unify.

Once someone unifies all the belts, they are the unified champion. So if he is stripped of 3 of the belts, he remains champion, but new champions pop up. Now what becomes of the man who beats the man who unified all the belts before they were stripped?

[Axe]

The longer the discussion, the more and more I say piss on LINEAL:good

Quite honestly, it doesnt represent THE TOP FIGHTER. It could be one and the same, but then that's UNIFIED:good Wish Boxing was run right:yep

Fighters concerned with lasting legacies should beat every "champ" they can and let history sort it out:D

Erdei aint the ebst LHW without beating the other champs and PBF aint the best WW without beating the other champs, IMO.

Lineal, smineal, whatever:hey

Good post, I agree that guys like Erdei and--to a far lesser extent--PBF, need to step up against the big threats in their respective divisions.

[Dorfmeister]

Bernard fought for the Ring Mag LHWT Champ for the same reasons that have taken Jeff Ryan, Ivan Goldman, William Dettloff and others there to write off JT from the P4P Top 10 List recently and to question the verdict that had the MW Title won for JT even as B-Hop only won rounds from the 8th round on ( with no knockdowns) back in 2004...

[PH|LLA]

cause the ring is an american mag

fact is Hopkins vs Erdei would establish a real, dominant, champ

[istmeno]

Perhaps my "intensity" on this issue clouds things for some, not necessarily you. Please keep in mind I view this as a boxing issue not a "Floyd" issue.

When you say they are stripped and then not "champions", I SAY BS!!!
If, say Wladimir Klitschko were "stripped" for intending to face Chagaev or the Ibragimov vs Holfield winner?? THAT WOULD BE BS!!!
The winner of that "unifying" event is still the Champion, fuck the org that stripped him.

I think the Hopkins Ring Champ example is perfect. He beat the man, who beat the man. Erdei is lineal but that and $3 will get him coffee at Starbucks.

I respect you and many other fans on this site and after all we've(you and I especially) been through around these issues?? I think that the results of those debates have pretty much destroyed both Org BS and Lineal. I hope that the ESB rankings and members judge to the proper standard and have faith they will.

For those that cant get past my views of PBF? I'll say it AGAIN, I dont have to like him to respect what he accomplishes in the ring. I seek the same standard for him as everyone else, FIGHT AND BEAT THE BEST!! Thats what the greatest of this sport have always DONE! Dont make excuses and hide behind shit, aint nothin 2 but to do it:good

do you realize that you contradict yourself in this post. on one hand you state that hopkins is the champion because he beat the man who beat the man. but you also say that a unifying champion being stripped is b.s., because the man who unified should still be considered the champion.

the man at lhw was virgil hill. d.m. got to him first therefore he was the champion. leading the lineage to erdei.

dm was stripped of the wba and ibf titles. so by your logic, how could roy be considered the man if he never beat the man. and before some of you get your panties in a bunch, it is not an issue of whetehr or not he was the best fighter in the division, rather should ring magazine have given roy the ring belt knowing that the lineal champion still held a title. and that at least one of the belts that roy held rightfully belonged to d.m.

[Stinky gloves]

Good post, I agree that guys like Erdei and--to a far lesser extent--PBF, need to step up against the big threats in their respective divisions.
So you mean Hopkins is standing up to currently biggest names at LHW ... Tarver and Wright?
Next year probaly he will fight the super winner of Jones-Trinidad ....
....or give rematch to biggest LHW treat: Oscar DLH.