Harry Greb vs Sam Langford

[Flea Man]

I can't imagine how many times this thread has been done.

Which incarnations of both men would make for a competitive matchup? if the 'best' versions of both men at Light-Heavy (I assume Greb would be conceding a fair few lbs) who would win?

Would Greb be able to dart in and out without being caught with a Langford haymaker? Would Langford be able to time Greb? Or would Greb he hopelessly outgunned against a giant killer even more proficient than he?

Maybe there are different versions of both men that mean you see different outcomes?

For me, I think Langford takes it. Until recently I discounted the 'old time' fighters ('Bah! We've advanced so much since then' 'they wouldn't have a clue what's going on!' LOL) but having immersed myself into the footage a bit more lately (i.e appreciating the innovation and of course toughness and the possible awkwardness a modern figher may experience fighting a pre-Louis fighter) I've started to become more receptive to 'rating' older fighters.

Langford DOES look pretty 'modern' on film. There can be no doubt about his chin and he wings his shots in like a smaller stature Foreman (with more speed and therefore more snap but less thunderous heaviness IMO) and given the people he stopped and the weights in which he ascended to there can be little argument that he hit very hard, be it for his time or, even today (older fighters thin gloves might hurt 'Modern' fighters, although todays fighters' padded gloves allow them to sit down on their punches more and they of course have th ability to study footage and modern science/training)

Now, these are two of the P4P greats, there can be no doubt, both of their resumes speak for themselves.

I'm still pretty much in the dark about both men (have both the Greb and Langford books on the way so looking forward to delve into both futher) so don't even mind if I get flamed :D

Who takes it over 15. And what weight would either man show up in? Would light-Heavy Langford (and which performance from Langford would you choose, even if it's one where he gave up poundage to a Heavy) just be too much for Greb?

Which opponent of Greb's would you say would be a good gauge as to what his performance may be like in the Langford fight?

I may be waffling, I'll leave it up to the more knowledgable posters, even I just get diverted to an old thread that has described this in detail:good:good

[MRBILL]

I gotta go with Sammy to beat Harry at a catch-weight............. I gotta' look back at the books, but I'm not sure S.L. could make 160 pounds without cutting off a leg.......

From what I've read, Harold Greb was a windmill winger of wild punches in punches, but generally effective........ Inspite of Greb's big biceps, he was not a serious puncher.... Greb was a winger / banger.......

I gotta assume Sammy was more technical and slightly bigger than Harry boy........ Sammy smacks him around for the win..............

MR.BILL

P.S.

At 175, Greb's ass gets kicked fo sho............. Greb was not the same above 168 pounds..........

[Flea Man]

That's what I'm saying. Greb would nondoubt give away lbs but was known for fighting bigger guys, the question is would Langford be a step too far?

[MRBILL]

That's what I'm saying. Greb would nondoubt give away lbs but was known for fighting bigger guys, the question is would Langford be a step too far?

Yes...... Lang would be that step too far for Grebbermeister.......:deal

MR.BILL

[Big N Bad]

Langford DOES look pretty 'modern' on film. There can be no doubt about his chin and he wings his shots in like a smaller stature Foreman (with more speed and therefore more snap but less thunderous heaviness IMO) and given the people he stopped and the weights in which he ascended to there can be little argument that he hit very hard, be it for his time or, even today (older fighters thin gloves might hurt 'Modern' fighters, although todays fighters' padded gloves allow them to sit down on their punches more and they of course have th ability to study footage and modern science/training)
good post:good

From watching langford vs bill lang, i can see langford has some good moves. he slips the jab and lands crushing body shots, has good a solid jab, blocks well with an open palm. he stalks his opponents down just like big george did.
alot of people have compared langford to george foreman and i totally agree, the way he stalks his opponents down, blocking and slipping their shots and getting closer. then he starts throwing his powerful punches foreman like.
i also like how you have described his power - more speed and snap than foreman but not the same heavieness. spot on. only i think because of his explosiveness they may have caused an even more devastating effect on his opponents. ever wondered why he has the 2nd highest ko's in history? foreman is one of the heaviest hitters ever, sometimes i just watch his fights just to hear them thudding punches land -BOOM BOOM

skill wise harry greb may trouble langford. I question how would greb handle langfords (tua like) power?
langford was knocking heavyweights spark out who ither never been knocked out or rarely. harry wills and joe jeannette who was only stopped twice in 165 fights!!

[JudgeDredd]

As much as I hate to say it, from what I know of Langford, he'd be a bit too much for Greb

[Unforgiven]

Greb and Langford were about the same weight - 165 pounds in their best condition.

Langford would beat Greb, IMO.

[Duodenum]

Nobody was ever able to take Harry out once he hit his stride. Over the distance, it would be a matter of quality versus quantity. Sam took out Wills twice when Harry was moving in for the kill. Greb would never attempt to do this, but aim for a decision win all the way. Many of Langford's opponents were afraid of him, but Ketchel apparently wasn't, and fought him to a standstill. Harry wouldn't have been scared of him either. I don't see Sam prevailing over 15 rounds against the kind of volume Greb would snow on him.

Greb UD 15 Langford

[Sweet Pea]

Nobody was ever able to take Harry out once he hit his stride. Over the distance, it would be a matter of quality versus quantity. Sam took out Wills twice when Harry was moving in for the kill. Greb would never attempt to do this, but aim for a decision win all the way. Many of Langford's opponents were afraid of him, but Ketchel apparently wasn't, and fought him to a standstill. Harry wouldn't have been scared of him either. I don't see Sam prevailing over 15 rounds against the kind of volume Greb would snow on him.

Greb UD 15 Langford
I agree. I don't see where people get off thinking Langford was a bad matchup for Greb rather than vice-versa. Probably just going by the "puncher>swarmer" method of thinking.

[PowerPuncher]

I'm going to quit watching boxing and just make predictions from reading newspaper clippings, obviously you can make judgements with far more certainty

[Sweet Pea]

At 175, Greb's ass gets kicked fo sho............. Greb was not the same above 168 pounds..........That's not true at all, but it's pretty much on par with everything else you post, so I couldn't have expected much different.:good

[KTFO]

Greb by comfortable UD

[BENNY BLANCO]

I'm going to quit watching boxing and just make predictions from reading newspaper clippings, obviously you can make judgements with far more certainty:lol: So damn true. This reminds me of a hilarious debate Sweet Pea had with DanePuglist on another forum in regards to Harry Greb.

[Bummy Davis]

It depends on what stage of there careers, they fought...Greb handled Tunney and some other strong Light Heavys....Langford was rugged and hit hard but I see this being a close fight for the most part

[MRBILL]

That's not true at all, but it's pretty much on par with everything else you post, so I couldn't have expected much different.:good

WTF?:patsch

MR.BILL

[djanders]

As much as I admire what Greb accomplished in the ring, I think Langford would have been too much for Greb to handle.

(Incidently, I think Dempsey would have been too much for Greb to handle, too, despite what seemed to be happening in their sparring sessions.)

[SLAKKA]

When Sam fought Jack Johnson 1906 Chelsea Mass he weighed 158!

[mcvey]

When Sam fought Jack Johnson 1906 Chelsea Mass he weighed 158!

156lbs to Johnson's 185.

[Flea Man]

So how woudl this fight pan out? Surely Greb's in and out swarming would see him hit with something big at some point as Langford times his rushes? Did he ever face as big a puncher as Langford (probably not due to Langford being the concensous hardest puncher of that time)

Although I usually say good chin beats big punch, I think Langford could stop Greb. I say greb wins a decision however, his movement, punch output and durability would see him through.

Thanks for everyones contributions thus far :good

[werety]

I think powerpuncher had a point. This fight involves way too much speculation for any worthwhile analysis to actually take place.

[Flea Man]

I think powerpuncher had a point. This fight involves way too much speculation for any worthwhile analysis to actually take place.


well, there is footage of Langford and we can make an approximation of Greb's style. Up until recently I never even discussed old-timers let alone take a genuine interest in them.

I think it's an interesting topic, even when it's discounted like you have done I think it's a valid point:good

[he grant]

It's an alltime match up but I favor Langford.

Sam lost to much bigger men , later in his career (post 30) who kept him on the outside with a fine jab, good speed and power. Men like Wills, Fulton or Smith. Sam's strength was men who came to him. Bad for Greb.

Of course I would imagine Harry being lightning fast, coming at all angles and very difficult to catch. However at 168 or 175, Sam would not be fighting some 190 or 200 plus guy hanging all over him in clinches weighing him down and tiring him out.

I just think Langford was way too strong and hardhitting. The way he cracked out huge guys, his exceptional power , his own terrific speed and inside fighting ability would be too much.

[frankenfrank]

langford at either weight they fight , be that 160 , 175 or 154 .
langford could make 160 till the end of his career.
making weight does not even mean you need to walk at this weight everyday , somehow people here don't understand it.
losing fat is not that hard.
he was fat above 160 , real fat above 175.
young langford weighing 156 went the distance with jack johnson.
not that johnson is at my top20 hw.
langford fought BIG men , he fought real SHWs , he did lose to most of them , at most occasions , but i don't think greb could equal his record , albeit a losing one , against them , that is called losing with respect.
sometimes losses like this are more impressing than foreman stopping frazier for example.

[Flea Man]

Frankenfrank you need to get a new translator you sound like Eric Cantonas poetry :rofl

[stevebhoy87]

well, there is footage of Langford and we can make an approximation of Greb's style. Up until recently I never even discussed old-timers let alone take a genuine interest in them.

I think it's an interesting topic, even when it's discounted like you have done I think it's a valid point:good

Can we though, i personally struggle, from what i've read of greb the closest modern fighter i would imagine to be calzaghe. But i'm not happy with that, just look at his record and the fighters he beat, he must have far more in his locker than joe.

Just for example imagine you'd never seen duran and only had read reports on him, i think it would be impossible to be able to properly envisage the way he was able to put together seemlessly defence and offense almost simultanusly for instance. It was unique, there will be large parts of greb style which i believe where total unique to him, things that perhaps we are not even aware of.

I have no issue ranking greb on a P4P list, his record is possibly the best in history but a discussion on how he does in a direct h2h is extremly difficult, fantasy matches at the best of time are subjective but without any footage of him, its impossible IMO

[djanders]

So how woudl this fight pan out? Surely Greb's in and out swarming would see him hit with something big at some point as Langford times his rushes? Did he ever face as big a puncher as Langford (probably not due to Langford being the concensous hardest puncher of that time)

Although I usually say good chin beats big punch, I think Langford could stop Greb. I say greb wins a decision however, his movement, punch output and durability would see him through.

Thanks for everyones contributions thus far :good

Yours is a very reasonable point of view. If they could fight 10 times, I'm sure Greb would win a decision in some of those fights, and I'm equally sure Sam would knock Greb out in some of them. I just think Sam would win most of those 10 fights, that's all.

Interesting matchup, for sure! :good