How many of these boxers would you pick Kessler to beat?

[PrideOfWales]

If they fought early next year, how many of the following boxers would you pick Mikkel Kessler to beat?


Jermain Taylor (168lbs)
Kelly Pavlik (168lbs)
Winky Wright (168lbs)
Bernard Hopkins (175)
Roy Jones Jnr (175)
Chad Dawson (175)

[pioterbezkitu]

Where's option: "None of them" :D

[PrideOfWales]

Where's option: "None of them" :D

Shit! Good point! I haven't set a poll up for a while... call it ring rust.

[China_hand_Joe]

Dawson is the only one who you might be able to favor.

(Old, small) Wright, (lazy old man) Hopkins, (couldn't beat Wright) Taylor, (the clumsy) Pavlik, and (the shadow of himself) Roy Jones have no hope.

[Boro chris]

If they fought early next year, how many of the following boxers would you pick Mikkel Kessler to beat?

Jermain Taylor (168lbs)
Kelly Pavlik (168lbs)
Winky Wright (168lbs)
Bernard Hopkins (175)
Roy Jones Jnr (175)
Chad Dawson (175)
I'd favour him narowly over Taylor and Pavlik. Wright,Hopkins and Jones would be easy meat at this stage in their carers but I think Dawsons size an skills give him the edge over MK.

[McGrain]

We will know so much more about Kessler after we see him in with Calzaghe.

[PrideOfWales]

We will know so much more about Kessler after we see him in with Calzaghe.

But knowing what you know about him now, how many do you think he could beat?

[McGrain]

But knowing what you know about him now, how many do you think he could beat?

OK, fair point.

Taylor - At 168 I would pick Taylor. Kessler should be a natural favourite but Taylor has been draining himself for some time now in order to make 160. This is one of my pet hates but it's understandable where Taylor is concerned, he IS undisputed MW champ (worth boiling down for). I am going to assume that he will be better than he's looked the last few times out. But this one is all about intabgibles (Taylor as 168, Kessler never mixed it top 1%) so I would be highly influenced by the Calzaghe fight here.

Pavlik - At 168 I would pick Kessler. I think his big win is overated, I think he is overated.

Wright - At 168 I would pick Kessler. The fact is that Wright isn't big enough for this type of elite company at the bigger weights.

Hopkins - It's perfectly reasonable to pick Kessler but I wouldn't do it. Picking against Hopkins is not a thing i do - when he loses, i'll just be wrong, that's all.

Roy Jones Jnr - @175 you have to be less than 99% sure, but I'll go for Kessler.

Dawson - I guess I would favour Dawson here.

So, Jones, Wright & Pavlik. But when I see him v Calzaghe, I will be making changes, almost undoubtedly.

[PrideOfWales]

OK, fair point.

Taylor - At 168 I would pick Taylor. Kessler should be a natural favourite but Taylor has been draining himself for some time now in order to make 160. This is one of my pet hates but it's understandable where Taylor is concerned, he IS undisputed MW champ (worth boiling down for). I am going to assume that he will be better than he's looked the last few times out. But this one is all about intabgibles (Taylor as 168, Kessler never mixed it top 1%) so I would be highly influenced by the Calzaghe fight here.

Pavlik - At 168 I would pick Kessler. I think his big win is overated, I think he is overated.

Wright - At 168 I would pick Kessler. The fact is that Wright isn't big enough for this type of elite company at the bigger weights.

Hopkins - It's perfectly reasonable to pick Kessler but I wouldn't do it. Picking against Hopkins is not a thing i do - when he loses, i'll just be wrong, that's all.

Roy Jones Jnr - @175 you have to be less than 99% sure, but I'll go for Kessler.

Dawson - I guess I would favour Dawson here.

So, Jones, Wright & Pavlik. But when I see him v Calzaghe, I will be making changes, almost undoubtedly.

Respect :good

[McGrain]

Respect :good

Cheers. So what about you yourself?

[thewoo]

I see him beating Wright, Hopkins, RJJ, and Taylor. Wright and Hopkins fights against Taylor show the trouble that they would have against the bigger man in Kessler and RJJ is a shell is his former self. I'd favor Dawson over him simply because he is a natural lightheavy but that might change after the calzage fight.

[PrideOfWales]

Personally, I think Pavlik, Wright and RJJ have little chance against Kessler. The others you could make a case for but don't think Taylor has it in him to beat a bigger, solid boxer with good skills. BHop would be 50/50 due to the age difference but I'd favour Dawson.

[brooklyn1550]

I would pick him over 4 or 5, but it's not out of the question that he wins all of 'em.

[PrideOfWales]

i cant see erdei in the list. does it mean anything? no hope for kessler to beat him?

It means it's my list and you play by my rules. OK cupcake?

[Alo2006]

I can give a more accurate opinion after his fight with Calzaghe.

[Brickhaus]

I'd favor Dawson, give Taylor even odds and give Hopkins and Pavlik about 40/60 odds. He'd dominate Winky and Roy boy - too much reach for the Winkster to fight using his game plan, too quick for the shaky looking Jones.

[PrideOfWales]

I can give a more accurate opinion after his fight with Calzaghe.

We can all do that. We can also give a more accurate opinion after he fights the named opponents above. Why sit on the fence?

[BITCH ASS]

Dawson is the only one who you might be able to favor.

(Old, small) Wright, (lazy old man) Hopkins, (couldn't beat Wright) Taylor, (the clumsy) Pavlik, and (the shadow of himself) Roy Jones have no hope.

Those dudes would beat the fuck out of Kessler.

[DanePugilist]

I think the only one to spell trouble for Kessler would be Dawson. Chad has tremendous amount of talent, and is undoubtedly going to become a major factor in boxing.

As it is, I still feel that Kesslers experience will become the deciding factor.

So my answer is: Kessler would beat all of them.

[PrideOfWales]

I think the only one to spell trouble for Kessler would be Dawson. Chad has tremendous amount of talent, and is undoubtedly going to become a major factor in boxing.

As it is, I still feel that Kesslers experience will become the deciding factor.

So my answer is: Kessler would beat all of them.

If Kessler's next 6 fights were against the said fighters after Calzaghe and he beat them like you think, he would be an ATG.

[DanePugilist]

If Kessler's next 6 fights were against the said fighters after Calzaghe and he beat them like you think, he would be an ATG.Quite frankly, I wouldn't give him too much credit for beating those fighters. Only Chad and of course Calzaghe. The others are either way-past prime, and/or smaller.

But thats just me - the wide public would give him tons of credit for it, because they just look at names, rather than their current ability or optimal weight.

[Laydown]

If Kessler's next 6 fights were against the said fighters after Calzaghe and he beat them like you think, he would be an ATG.

I guess that's his plan :good

[DanePugilist]

I guess that's his plan :goodSo far everything is going according to plan - however the biggest obstacle is just around the corner, imho.

[mightyd40]

If they fought early next year, how many of the following boxers would you pick Mikkel Kessler to beat?

Jermain Taylor (168lbs)
Kelly Pavlik (168lbs)
Winky Wright (168lbs)
Bernard Hopkins (175)
Roy Jones Jnr (175)
Chad Dawson (175)
i would pick him to beat pavlik bc i think he may be overated and i would favor him over rjj but wouldnt be surprised if i was wrong...i would pick the rest to beat him and would have alot of confidence in saying dawson would beat him decisively. maybe hopkins as well

[ripcity]

Roy Jones Jnr (175) A prime Jones would win easy
Winky Wright (168lbs) His best weight is 154lbs

[Astola]

Dawson is the only one to spell trouble for Kessler.

According to Flod Mayweather SR - Kessler would propably win though:D

[DanePugilist]

Dawson is the only one to spell trouble for Kessler.

According to Flod Mayweather SR - Kessler would propably win though:DThough I have little respect for the Mayweathers' - I do find that as a pad on the back.

[Dorfmeister]

Absolutely none, I'm sorry and I have nothing against the dude... Does that answer on Kessler's chances against Calzaghe or was not that part of the question?

[DanePugilist]

Absolutely none, I'm sorry and I have nothing against the dude... Does that answer on Kessler's chances against Calzaghe or was not that part of the question?So you don't even think he can beat a guy who fights at 154(Winky)? A guy who struggled with Soliman, who in turn got KTFO by Mundine, who in turn got schooled by Kessler?

Fair enough. You will learn soon enough.

[Dorfmeister]

So you don't even think he can beat a guy who fights at 154(Winky)? A guy who struggled with Soliman, who in turn got KTFO by Mundine, who in turn got schooled by Kessler?

Fair enough. You will learn soon enough.

God, Dane, he could beat all of them but I don't think he would... Winky is a star at the Global level and he is favored to win against whomever ( there are people who believe he beat 170 pounder Bernard for a 175 pound title), it doesn't have to do with his natural weight but with his difficult style to fight against... As far as I know Soliman was caught by Mundine at 168 and Winky beat him at 160 for the right to face Taylor and drew with Jermain, Kessler "schooled" Mundine sometime before, these are not straight lines or are they?

If you don't think it's fair, then why is Bernard calling for Joe in the Yankee Stadium and not for Mikkel? That's right, cause Joe is the door to bigger fights for Mikkel and Joe wouldn't need him or Lacy to get fights with the ones mentioned in this thread... Tell you what, if Mikkel wins, I'll learn and join his bandwagon too, fair enough? My respects

[DanePugilist]

God, Dane, he could beat all of them but I don't think he would... Winky is a star at the Global level and he is favored to win against whomever ( there are people who believe he beat 170 pounder Bernard for a 175 pound title), it doesn't have to do with his natural weight but with his difficult style to fight against... As far as I know Soliman was caught by Mundine at 168 and Winky beat him at 160 for the right to face Taylor and drew with Jermain, Kessler "schooled" Mundine sometime before, these are not straight lines or are they? The sky has a limit. You even acknowledge that Winky struggled at 160 with Soliman - a guy that failed at 168. If Winky can't perform well at 160 against a guy that is MW/SMW, how would he fare at 168? Going the distance with a 42 year old Hopkins who isn't even a natural 175 either, means nothing to me. Maybe it does to you. Kessler is a prime fighter, and top lvl at 168.

No doubt that Winky is slowly showing wear and tear of his many battles in Europe before gaining well deserved dues. Taylor, Winky and Hopkins do not possess power to knockout Kessler, and workrate-wise - they simply do far too little to win on points.

If you don't think it's fair, then why is Bernard calling for Joe in the Yankee Stadium and not for Mikkel? That's right, cause Joe is the door to bigger fights for Mikkel and Joe wouldn't need him or Lacy to get fights with the ones mentioned in this thread... Tell you what, if Mikkel wins, I'll learn and join his bandwagon too, fair enough? My respectsI have never heard Hopkins call out for JC at all. But lets say you are right - nothing wrong with that - JC is still considered top dog at 168 for 10 year reign and dismantlement of Lacy. Calzaghe is simply a bigger name than Kessler. Names however does not equal bigger threat.

I hope for the sake of Hopkins that he isn't serious about taking Calzaghe on, because it would end very messy for him. He should stick to fairly inactive light hitters(Taylor, Winky) or out-of-focus past-primers(Tarver) - just like he has...

RJJ would have beaten them all in his prime - however the man is no longer there... You must accept these facts to have some sort of validity. Elites are not elites till end of days.

[Toopretty]

Any idiot that picked all of them needs to find a new sport in a hurry. 4 of the fighters are more skilled then him. Dawson would beat the utter shit out of him Ademek style. In which Ademek is the better fighter and would whoop Kesslers ONE, TWO ass as well.

[pipe wrenched]

I only got to see him kick the shit out of Andrade for 12 rounds, but that was a good showing. However I will like to see more from him to make a good judgement.

[China_hand_Joe]

I have never heard Hopkins call out for JC at all. But lets say you are right - nothing wrong with that - JC is still considered top dog at 168 for 10 year reign and dismantlement of Lacy. Calzaghe is simply a bigger name than Kessler. Names however does not equal bigger threat.

I hope for the sake of Hopkins that he isn't serious about taking Calzaghe on, because it would end very messy for him. He should stick to fairly inactive light hitters(Taylor, Winky) or out-of-focus past-primers(Tarver) - just like he has...



The way shrewd Hopkins only began calling Joe out after the Kessler fight was signed signifies his intentions.

[McGrain]

The way shrewd Hopkins only began calling Joe out after the Kessler fight was signed signifies his intentions.

I really, really, really think that Hopkins genuinley wants to fight Calzaghe. I think it could happen.

Whatever you and Amsterdam think of Hopkins, for me beating Kessler then Hopkins seriously, seriously impacts my perception of him. I don't care that people say Hopkins is old, for me he may still be the hardest man to beat in or around that weight. He's just hard to beat.

[DanePugilist]

Any idiot that picked all of them needs to find a new sport in a hurry. 4 of the fighters are more skilled then him. Dawson would beat the utter shit out of him Ademek style. In which Ademek is the better fighter and would whoop Kesslers ONE, TWO ass as well.I personally you should just stop writing. I do hope that you are aware that there is a thing called time - and time hurts even the best of men - eventually. Somehow you still find yourself in a bubble, where no clock is ticking.

I think the classical forum is the place for you.

[DanePugilist]

The way shrewd Hopkins only began calling Joe out after the Kessler fight was signed signifies his intentions.:rofl - absolutely.

[DanePugilist]

Chad would put the beats on Kessler. Kessler, like Adamek, has that stand up european style which Dawson would have a field day with.Very possible, Assassin. However, I still think that the Adamek fight showed that Dawson tends to make mistakes due to his youthful age, a thing that is very dangerous vs a smart fighter such as Kessler.

But by no means a bad call...

[China_hand_Joe]

I really, really, really think that Hopkins genuinley wants to fight Calzaghe. I think it could happen.

Whatever you and Amsterdam think of Hopkins, for me beating Kessler then Hopkins seriously, seriously impacts my perception of him. I don't care that people say Hopkins is old, for me he may still be the hardest man to beat in or around that weight. He's just hard to beat.

I was wrong about Hatton vs Floyd, I though Hatton would want to cash in some more before he cashed out. I hope I am wrong about Hopkins' character too.

[DanePugilist]

I was wrong about Hatton vs Floyd, I though Hatton would want to cash in some more before he cashed out. I hope I am wrong about Hopkins' character too.I don't see it happening. If JC beats Kessler, he would have no part of it, and if Kessler beats JC - he wouldn't gain very much out of it.

Thats my 2 kroner.

[brooklyn1550]

Here are my picks for the following fights...

Mikkel Kessler TKO10 Jermain Taylor
Mikkel Kessler UD12 Winky Wright
Mikkel Kessler UD12 Kelly Pavlik
Mikkel Kessler UD12 Bernard Hopkins
Mikkel Kessler TKO7 Roy Jones, Jr.
Chad Dawson SD12 Mikkel Kessler (the most intriguing fight on here in my opinion - either guy can win)

[China_hand_Joe]

Here are my picks for the following fights...

Mikkel Kessler TKO10 Jermain Taylor
Mikkel Kessler UD12 Winky Wright
Mikkel Kessler UD12 Kelly Pavlik
Mikkel Kessler UD12 Bernard Hopkins
Mikkel Kessler TKO7 Roy Jones, Jr.
Chad Dawson SD12 Mikkel Kessler (the most intriguing fight on here in my opinion)

I see why you were nominated multiple times.

[DanePugilist]

I see why you were nominated multiple times.:good - my pick was well placed.

[brooklyn1550]

I see why you were nominated multiple times.

I take it you agree with the Kessler W12 Hopkins pick?

[China_hand_Joe]

I take it you agree with the Kessler W12 Hopkins pick?

Given Hopkins' cageyness and Kessler's lack of really devastating power, I see the Kessler decision being the most likely result.

[MSTR]

Dawson is the only one who you might be able to favor.

(Old, small) Wright, (lazy old man) Hopkins, (couldn't beat Wright) Taylor, (the clumsy) Pavlik, and (the shadow of himself) Roy Jones have no hope.
Great post. Dawson would beat Kessler though. Dawson is a real talent.

[DanePugilist]

Given Hopkins' cageyness and Kessler's lack of really devastating power, I see the Kessler decision being the most likely result.:rofl:good

[DanePugilist]

Pavlik is the only guy he definitely beats.

He may have a chance against RJJ, Dawson and Winky but those are 50/50 fights in my view, RJJ isn't so shot that he doesn't know how to deal with an orthodox jabber.

B-Hop dismantles him comfortably
Taylor beats him at his own gameNot bad, even if you are too high on Taylor and Hopkins.

[MSTR]

Here are my picks for the following fights...

Mikkel Kessler TKO10 Jermain Taylor
Mikkel Kessler UD12 Winky Wright
Mikkel Kessler UD12 Kelly Pavlik
Mikkel Kessler UD12 Bernard Hopkins
Mikkel Kessler TKO7 Roy Jones, Jr.
Chad Dawson SD12 Mikkel Kessler (the most intriguing fight on here in my opinion - either guy can win)
I like all your picks except the last one. Dawson is faster, bigger, and still powerful. He can do things in the ring that 99% of fighters simply cannot. The way he uses the angles, throws unorthadox combinations, and utilises his superior technical skills is impressive. Kessler is far to orthadox to be able to deal with someone like Chad.

[DanePugilist]

I like all your picks except the last one. Dawson is faster, bigger, and still powerful. He can do things in the ring that 99% of fighters simply cannot. The way he uses the angles, throws unorthadox combinations, and utilises his superior technical skills is impressive. Kessler is far to orthadox to be able to deal with someone like Chad.You might be right, but if Kessler handles JC, its almost certain to say that he can handle Dawson. Chad still makes youthful mistakes.... But no doubt its a name that will resound throughout the boxing world for many years.

[brooklyn1550]

I like all your picks except the last one. Dawson is faster, bigger, and still powerful. He can do things in the ring that 99% of fighters simply cannot. The way he uses the angles, throws unorthadox combinations, and utilises his superior technical skills is impressive. Kessler is far to orthadox to be able to deal with someone like Chad.

You make some real good points

[PrideOfWales]

Most people think Kessler would beat all of the 6 boxers.

[henrik]

IMO ithink that on a night where everything just works,he can take anybody,that we are talkimg about......maybe dawson is a too big a cake to swollow.

[Amsterdam]

Dawson is the only one that even poses a threat.

Come on guys, Wright and Taylor? Wright is 35 and hasn't been all that impressive at 160 and looked like shit at 170, which is 2 pounds north of 168. Wright could not beat old man Hopkins at 170, how will he beat a young, skilled, powerful and quick technical boxer puncher who even has a more pin point jab than he does himself?

This how 'names' get seriously overrated.

Taylor? Please. He barely gets by the Cory Spinks' of the world. Style don't favour him here, nor does he have the skill to compete with someone who is of superior quality in every area and of a similiar style.

Hopkins? Well, let's see, he couldn't beat Taylor clearly, how's he going to beat Kessler when he's at the end of that jab all night? Hopkins was cautious of Taylor's counter punches, he'll be even more so of Kessler counter punches.

Pavlik? No defense, too sloppy, too slow.

Kessler beats all of them but Dawson, and in that bout, I'd slightly favour Kessler in fact.

[Amsterdam]

Cheers. So what about you yourself?

Let me ask you McGrain, do you consider an old Hopkins and Wright to be the true 'top 1%' when it comes to the 160-175 crop.

Taylor would be a fish out of water against Kessler and at 168.

[Amsterdam]

Pavlik is the only guy he definitely beats.

He may have a chance against RJJ, Dawson and Winky but those are 50/50 fights in my view, RJJ isn't so shot that he doesn't know how to deal with an orthodox jabber.

B-Hop dismantles him comfortably
Taylor beats him at his own game

So let me get this straight Blockhead. Taylor is more dangerous than Dawson?

Fuck off you obnoxious piece of garbage.

[Dekkers]

... As far as I know Soliman was caught by Mundine at 168 and Winky beat him at 160 for the right to face Taylor and drew with Jermain, Kessler "schooled" Mundine sometime before, these are not straight lines or are they?
'Molested' by Mundine would more accurately describe that fight as opposed to 'caught'.

fzcrhCQxb_A

[Dorfmeister]

I have never heard Hopkins call out for JC at all. But lets say you are right - nothing wrong with that - JC is still considered top dog at 168 for 10 year reign and dismantlement of Lacy. Calzaghe is simply a bigger name than Kessler.

I hope for the sake of Hopkins that he isn't serious about taking Calzaghe on, because it would end very messy for him. He should stick to fairly inactive light hitters(Taylor, Winky) or out-of-focus past-primers(Tarver) - just like he has...


Bernard called out for Joe Calzaghe to fight in the Yankee Stadium, NYC, and predicted he would knock out Joe, please check out Bernard's interview with Max post fight with Winky... He called Joe cause Calzaghe is the Top Dog in the SMW Division at the Global Scale and that's why Mikkel needs to overcome the Welsh to get fights which would make him a SuperStar Worldwide, not definitely fighting Librado Andrade on HBO just...

Hopkins is a very crafty, rough and tricky 6' 1'' tall, superbly fit physical specimen who beat to the punch genuine LHWT lefty Antonio Tarver alongside with the best defensive, tricksy, slickiest MW/SMW in the world, former unified LMW champ, former nº1 WBC MW Contender Ronald Wright... Remember that same 42 year old is the longest MW undisputed Champ & Titles holder ( 10 years and 8 months, 20 successful title defenses from 1994 to 2004) and he was beaten by a 6' 1'' broad shouldered, massive tree trunk youngster in Jermain Taylor from the US class of 2000, in what were two extremely competitive fights at the highest level... Now, you want to compare these with Mikkel Kessler? I'm sorry, Kessler may be a potential Top Class 168 pounder ( 160-168 pounds, 72-76 kg, all the same let's face it) but he is not about there yet based on the facts, not on predictions and fortune telling, again no disrespect to Mikkel who may come across with JT on his own way up in weight and even B-Hop if the Dan beats Joe...

[China_hand_Joe]

Bernard called out for Joe Calzaghe to fight in the Yankee Stadium, NYC, and predicted he would knock out Joe, please check out Bernard's interview with Max post fight with Winky... He called Joe cause Calzaghe is the Top Dog in the SMW Division at the Global Scale and that's why Mikkel needs to overcome the Welsh to get fights which would make him a SuperStar Worldwide, not definitely fighting Librado Andrade on HBO just...It is safe to call out a pre-occupied opponent as mentioned earlier.

[DanePugilist]

Bernard called out for Joe Calzaghe to fight in the Yankee Stadium, NYC, and predicted he would knock out Joe, please check out Bernard's interview with Max post fight with Winky... He called Joe cause Calzaghe is the Top Dog in the SMW Division at the Global Scale and that's why Mikkel needs to overcome the Welsh to get fights which would make him a SuperStar Worldwide, not definitely fighting Librado Andrade on HBO just...I have never thought otherwise. Nor do I care about Kessler facing an old man - Calzaghe is the best Kessler can fight, from 160-168, and with the exception of Erdei and Dawson, none at 175 either.

Btw, if you want to post lines of what I have said, don't leave something out - you forgot this: "Names does not equal bigger threat".

Hopkins is a very crafty, rough and tricky 6' 1'' tall, superbly fit physical specimen who beat to the punch genuine LHWT lefty Antonio Tarver alongside with the best defensive, tricksy, slickiest MW/SMW in the world, former unified LMW champ, former nº1 WBC MW Contender Ronald Wright... Remember that same 42 year old is the longest MW undisputed Champ & Titles holder ( 10 years and 8 months, 20 successful title defenses from 1994 to 2004) and he was beaten by a 6' 1'' broad shouldered, massive tree trunk youngster in Jermain Taylor from the US class of 2000, in what were two extremely competitive fights at the highest level... Now, you want to compare these with Mikkel Kessler? I'm sorry, Kessler may be a potential Top Class 168 pounder ( 160-168 pounds, 72-76 kg, all the same let's face it) but he is not about there yet based on the facts, not on predictions and fortune telling, again no disrespect to Mikkel who may come across with JT on his own way up in weight and even B-Hop if the Dan beats Joe...Before you go into some rant of hailing Hopkins, Taylor, Winky et al, you must understand Tarver was shit in his Hopkins fight, and is 36 years old. Oh yeah he beat way-past prime RJJ, then showed up against Hopkins totally out-of-focus, hardly trained. Taylor gained recognition for fighting a Hopkins that, even if he is a physical speciman, is no longer a top top performer, neither is Taylor. Taylor went on to face smaller men, including Winky. Winky had to go from natural 154 to 175 to fight Hopkins, and with Winky being feather-fisted, what threat would he pose? All of them have low work-rate.

If you don't acknowledge these facts, but just go about names, and not taking weight, style and fading by age into account, then you are just kidding yourself.

[Dorfmeister]

'Molested' by Mundine would more accurately describe that fight as opposed to 'caught'.

fzcrhCQxb_A

Well, I give ya the benefit of the doubt since I didn't watch that fight but when I say "caught" I am simply refering to the fact that Sam Soliman was beaten by the short route, inside the distance... "Molested" is much more a metaphorised, euphemistic term to describe what really happened there and then, in my manner of understanding... I understand that my own use of words may be categorised as diminutive but then I can alledge that my english vocabulary knowledge is limited and that my imagination doesn't allow me to make paralells between boxing fights and sexual assaults. BTW, Thnx 4 the Video link, Dekkers

[PrideOfWales]

You have to give Mikkel Kessler credit. If he beats Joe Calzaghe then he will look for his next challenge. If none of the big fights are made, it won't be through the lack of Mikkel Kessler's trying

[Toopretty]

'Molested' by Mundine would more accurately describe that fight as opposed to 'caught'.

fzcrhCQxb_A

:rofl:rofl:rofl Thats how you guys rank these Euro fighters on fights like this..That had to be the easiest knockout that I ever seen. Sam was pretty much ASKING to be knocked out.."Please..oh please sir please keep hitting me with the same right hand as I bob my head right in to it of balance with my gloves down like 13 times in one round..":nut:nut:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::l ol::lol::lol::lol: A win over the equally bland mundine dont mean crap for Kessler..Guys like Taylor/Wright and Bhop are in another dimension.....Just b/c you guys rack up 30 wins fighting nothing but other Euro fighters and you think you could beat the best in the US old or not...CRACKHEADS.lol

[Toopretty]

I have never thought otherwise. Nor do I care about Kessler facing an old man - Calzaghe is the best Kessler can fight, from 160-168, and with the exception of Erdei and Dawson, none at 175 either.

Btw, if you want to post lines of what I have said, don't leave something out - you forgot this: "Names does not equal bigger threat".
Before you go into some rant of hailing Hopkins, Taylor, Winky et al, you must understand Tarver was shit in his Hopkins fight, and is 36 years old. Oh yeah he beat way-past prime RJJ, then showed up against Hopkins totally out-of-focus, hardly trained. Taylor gained recognition for fighting a Hopkins that, even if he is a physical speciman, is no longer a top top performer, neither is Taylor. Taylor went on to face smaller men, including Winky. Winky had to go from natural 154 to 175 to fight Hopkins, and with Winky being feather-fisted, what threat would he pose? All of them have low work-rate.

If you don't acknowledge these facts, but just go about names, and not taking weight, style and fading by age into account, then you are just kidding yourself.

You are kidding yourself to think the two bums in this fight are anything to an old Hopkins, Roy, Bhop, Winky etc. They could all be past it but will always beat those fighters like I said that fight nothing but Euro fighters. History has taught us this..

[Dekkers]

:rofl:rofl:rofl Thats how you guys rank these Euro fighters on fights like this..That had to be the easiest knockout that I ever seen. Sam was pretty much ASKING to be knocked out.."Please..oh please sir please keep hitting me with the same right hand as I bob my head right in to it of balance with my gloves down like 13 times in one round..":nut:nut:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::l ol::lol::lol::lol: A win over the equally bland mundine dont mean crap for Kessler..Guys like Taylor/Wright and Bhop are in another dimension.....Just b/c you guys rack up 30 wins fighting nothing but other Euro fighters and you think you could beat the best in the US old or not...CRACKHEADS.lol

:lol::lol::lol: Yes i'm sure that's why 'another dimension' Wright had such a tough fight against Soliman. The problem with you yanks is that you have to many 'jerk circles' with name fighters, the Tarver, Johnson, RJJ, jerk circle was already exposed, the Wright (way above his best weight and past prime), Hopkins (great fighter just way past his prime), Taylor jerk circle looks to be the next to go, enjoy the ride it'll be fun :D

[Toopretty]

:lol::lol::lol: Yes i'm sure that's why 'another dimension' Wright had such a tough fight against Soliman. The problem with you yanks is that you have to many 'jerk circles' with name fighters, the Tarver, Johnson, RJJ, jerk circle was already exposed, the Wright (way above his best weight and past prime), Hopkins (great fighter just way past his prime), Taylor jerk circle looks to be the next to go, enjoy the ride it'll be fun :D


:lol::lol::lol: yeah...winky schooled his ass for 9 rounds but couldnt put him away and his crazy untalented style winky was not accustomed to..he is used to fighters that can actually box..when Calzaghe and Kessler get the shit beat out of them by the first real US top fighter I will be laughing my ass off..maybe not calzaghe but you ingrates amuse me...:lol::lol::nut

[Brickhaus]

:rofl:rofl:rofl Thats how you guys rank these Euro fighters on fights like this.

Dude, neither of them is even remotely European....

[Dekkers]

Well, I give ya the benefit of the doubt since I didn't watch that fight but when I say "caught" I am simply refering to the fact that Sam Soliman was beaten by the short route, inside the distance... "Molested" is much more a metaphorised, euphemistic term to describe what really happened there and then, in my manner of understanding... I understand that my own use of words may be categorised as diminutive but then I can alledge that my english vocabulary knowledge is limited and that my imagination doesn't allow me to make paralells between boxing fights and sexual assaults. BTW, Thnx 4 the Video link, Dekkers

Your english is quite good :lol::D.

We Australians found the fight quite interesting since their first contest was actually a very close fight. Outside Australia the picking seemed to be closer, we actually had a few people wander into the Australian forum and ask us why we were picking Mundine. The logic being that a fighter that had a close fight with Wright should be able to beat Mundine... I think our analysis was better (the majority of Australian posters picked Mundine) since we'd seen more of both fighters recently, better than making an analysis because one had been competitive with a name fighter.

[Toopretty]

Dude, neither of them is even remotely European....

I throw Australia in with the EUROs..it is the same shit..its an Island on the bottom of the earth with what...EUROS.....You are lumped into the same category.

[Dekkers]

:lol::lol::lol: yeah...winky schooled his ass for 9 rounds but couldnt put him away and his crazy untalented style winky was not accustomed to..he is used to fighters that can actually box..when Calzaghe and Kessler get the shit beat out of them by the first real US top fighter I will be laughing my ass off..maybe not calzaghe but you ingrates amuse me...:lol::lol::nut
I go by film, not by names, I don't think American fighters are bad, but Hops and Wright are past their primes (and one is fighting about 2 weight divisions to high). Dawson is a better fighter than Taylor, Hopkins or Wright at this point, names tend to get overrated, strip away the aura and look at the film, RIGHT NOW Dawson is better than any of them.

[Toopretty]

I go by film, not by names, I don't think American fighters are bad, but Hops and Wright are past their primes (and one is fighting about 2 weight division to high). Dawson is a better fighter than Taylor, Hopkins or Wright at this point, names tend to get overrated, strip away the aura and look at the film, RIGHT NOW Dawson is better than any of them.

Dawson still has not reached his potential and that is scarrry knowing that he is fighting off pretty much all natural ability with no smarts...the guy could be the best 168-175 which he already is anyway. But I mean whoop those other guys asses.

[BITCH ASS]

I really, really, really think that Hopkins genuinley wants to fight Calzaghe. I think it could happen.

Whatever you and Amsterdam think of Hopkins, for me beating Kessler then Hopkins seriously, seriously impacts my perception of him. I don't care that people say Hopkins is old, for me he may still be the hardest man to beat in or around that weight. He's just hard to beat.

Hopkins is hard as fuck.

[BITCH ASS]

Pavlik is the only guy he definitely beats.

He may have a chance against RJJ, Dawson and Winky but those are 50/50 fights in my view, RJJ isn't so shot that he doesn't know how to deal with an orthodox jabber.

B-Hop dismantles him comfortably
Taylor beats him at his own game

Why?

Pavlik punches harder than Kessler, is just as tall and may even have more reach.

Pavlik also has a better arsenal than Kessler, and really, who has Kessler beat?

You can say the same thing about Pavlik, but Pavlik will likely win the fight against Taylor, yet Kessler will lose against Calzaghe.

[DanePugilist]

I throw Australia in with the EUROs..it is the same shit..its an Island on the bottom of the earth with what...EUROS.....You are lumped into the same category.Funny you are so stupid that you don't realize that most people in America are all denizens of Europeans.

[MrMagic]

At worst Kessler has a 50/50 shot, and that's against Dawson.
I'm serious. :bbb

[DanePugilist]

I go by film, not by names, I don't think American fighters are bad, but Hops and Wright are past their primes (and one is fighting about 2 weight divisions to high). Dawson is a better fighter than Taylor, Hopkins or Wright at this point, names tend to get overrated, strip away the aura and look at the film, RIGHT NOW Dawson is better than any of them.:good

[*BOX_FAN*]

3 - Pavlik, Wright and RJJ.

[Axe]

Most people think Kessler would beat all of the 6 boxers.

Actually that's incorrect. 68% think that he would NOT beat all of the above. :good

If you mean to say which of the 6 slots has the most votes, then that would make some sense.

[PrideOfWales]

Actually that's incorrect. 68% think that he would NOT beat all of the above. :good

If you mean to say which of the 6 slots has the most votes, then that would make some sense.

You missed the early voting patterns

[Laydown]

Dude, neither of them is even remotely European....

:rofl :rofl

[Laydown]

Funny you are so stupid that you don't realize that most people in America are all denizens of Europeans.

He's from Mexico

[Dorfmeister]

You are kidding yourself to think the two bums in this fight are anything to an old Hopkins, Roy, Bhop, Winky etc. They could all be past it but will always beat those fighters like I said that fight nothing but Euro fighters. History has taught us this..

Just to make one thing clear to Toopretty, Dekkers and DanePugilist ( btw to radical China_Hand_Joe 2), I have no doubts that both Joe Calzaghe and Mikkel Kessler are at the same A level of Hopkins, BHop, Winky Wright, actually why wouldn't they? The European / Non-European factor is irrelevant in itself ( obviously Toopretty) but Frank ****** may have affected Joe's chances to succeed in the States against Bernard now, for instance - he fought too many times in his home turf so that he wouldn't get tricked by someone who tricked the trickiest in Winky, that's all, otherwise Joe would whirlwind Bernard for 12 rounds in the RJJ's fashion so gifted, fast and experienced (same 20 successful SMW title defenses and undefeated against the likes of Mitchell, Brewer, Lacy and so on) is the Prince of Wales ... Same logic applies to Kessler, the spectacular wins over Beyer and Soliman may not mean a lot if he comes into a situation such as Calzaghe's, he still is too green to fight the best american fighters on american soil, remember what happened to former european mw champ Morrade Hakkar in Philly and he was a good fighter...

[Axe]

You missed the early voting patterns

No I was there. :deal

Unless you mean before this even had 10 votes, then I concede, but that isn't exactly a statistically significant result.

[PrideOfWales]

No I was there. :deal

Unless you mean before this even had 10 votes, then I concede, but that isn't exactly a statistically significant result.

Yeah, you got me there.. lol

[Dorfmeister]

What nobody wants to admit is that this fight can be a tossup... If Joe uses his awkward pesky puncher style well, his deceptive hand speed, uses angles to nail and his footwork to get outa there, he wins... If Kessler controls well his sense of distance and imposes the heavier, solid jab, and proves that his combination punching style is much more effective than slap-pitty-pat punchin, Mikkel may even hurt Calzaghe bad... I believe there is too much at stake in this fight, big-fight nerves are required and I know who can show more of that when it happens.

[PrideOfWales]

What nobody wants to admit is that this fight can be a tossup... If Joe uses his awkward pesky puncher style well, his deceptive hand speed, uses angles to nail and his footwork to get outa there, he wins... If Kessler controls well his sense of distance and imposes the heavier, solid jab, and proves that his combination punching style is much more effective than slap-pitty-pat punchin, Mikkel may even hurt Calzaghe bad... I believe there is too much at stake in this fight, big-fight nerves are required and I know who can show more of that when it happens.

But Kessler is unproven when it comes to big fight nerves. If he holds it together, who would you pick on the assumption that both boxers bring their best to the party?

[Dorfmeister]

But Kessler is unproven when it comes to big fight nerves. If he holds it together, who would you pick on the assumption that both boxers bring their best to the party?

Yes, Kessler is unproven but many make the same comment to Calzaghe ( in threads that question his level of opposition) but going straight to your point, if Mikkel holds it together and shows great hunger in front of 60 thousand at the Milennium and Joe brings his best like against Lacy, if Kessler doesn't get back problems or Joe's hands get injured, I'll go with the majority of experts - check out "The Ring" December issue -Calzaghe vs. Kessler What the experts are saying ( pags 38-39) - final tally: Calzaghe 15; Kessler 5 - Joe toughs out a close win aiming for a B-Hop career final bout.

[MrStayman]

If Kessler were to fight Pavlik and Taylor one after the other, I think there is an above 50% chance that he would lose once. I might give him as high as 70% odds for each fight, but that means he would still probably lose one of them.

Dawson also probably gets the edge for the extra weight division.

[PrideOfWales]

If Kessler were to fight Pavlik and Taylor one after the other, I think there is an above 50% chance that he would lose once. I might give him as high as 70% odds for each fight, but that means he would still probably lose one of them.

Dawson also probably gets the edge for the extra weight division.

Fighting Pavlik and Taylor is mutually exclusive. So if you think there's 70% chance he'd beat each then you're saying there's a 70% chance he'd beat both, one after the other.

Your math makes no sense with the 50% you give him.

[EL MATADOR13]

hopkins and pavlik only have a chance everyone else gets beat (roy jr. ,winky, taylor get knocked out).

[MrStayman]

Fighting Pavlik and Taylor is mutually exclusive. So if you think there's 70% chance he'd beat each then you're saying there's a 70% chance he'd beat both, one after the other.

Your math makes no sense with the 50% you give him. .7 * .7 = .49, so if he has a 70% chance against each, then he'd have a 49% chance of beating both, one after another. This is because each fight is an independent event.


You're right in that it's an odd way of looking at things. I'm just saying how many I think he would beat if he fought all in succession.

[Rollo]

All of them - except Dawson.

[Dorfmeister]

.7 * .7 = .49, so if he has a 70% chance against each, then he'd have a 49% chance of beating both, one after another. This is because each fight is an independent event.


You're right in that it's an odd way of looking at things. I'm just saying how many I think he would beat if he fought all in succession.

Sorry , MrStayman, can't help myself to intervene here. If you multiply Kessler's chances of beating Pavlik ( event A with P(A)=.7) and beating Taylor ( event B with P(B)=.7) then you get in percentage the chance (P(A).P(B)=.5) that Kessler has to beat both if they were mutually independent events... But happens that they are not mutually independent, Kessler only fights and beats Taylor if he beats Pavlik) so this is a case of conditional probability P(B/A) with P(AB) = P(B/A)P(A) which is not .5

[PrideOfWales]

Sorry , MrStayman, can't help myself to intervene here. If you multiply Kessler's chances of beating Pavlik ( event A with P(A)=.7) and beating Taylor ( event B with P(B)=.7) then you get in percentage the chance (P(A).P(B)=.5) that Kessler has to beat both if they were mutually independent events... But happens that they are not mutually independent, Kessler only fights and beats Taylor if he beats Pavlik) so this is a case of conditional probability P(B/A) with P(AB) = P(B/A)P(A) which is not .5

You are so cool! :good

[David UK]

I don't know too much about Dawson so can't comment. I'd narrowly favour Kessler over Pavilk. He beats all the other US Senior Tour members convincingly

[PrideOfWales]

On reflection, would anyone who voted now change their vote?

[Harry]

On reflection, would anyone who voted now change their vote?

no. why?. joe and kessler beats all of them, the fight was not so onesided as some people claim it was. joe and kessler are both great, and a rematch in copenhagen would be interesting:think.

[Haye]

Where's option: "None of them" :D

The thread is for people who actually have some knowledge, so it aint applicable.

[jammerdk]

The thread is for people who actually have some knowledge, so it aint applicable.

:lol:

[Djarnis]

no. why?. joe and kessler beats all of them, the fight was not so onesided as some people claim it was. joe and kessler are both great, and a rematch in copenhagen would be interesting:think.

Agreed i have wathced the fight many times and up untill round 5 they are switching between winning rounds. Then Kessler seems to loose his stamina. I was really impressed by JC in that fight i had kessler as a sure win, but damn JC can suck up punches. The two uppercuts from MK in round 4 would have shaken anyone, JC just shrugged.
That coupled with his workrate won him the fight, but it was close. I still think Kessler would have a chance in a rematch, he learned some valuable lessons in Cardiff.

[jammerdk]

The Viking will prevail :bbb ...but both Pavlik and Hopkins is a fight I'd love to see :deal

[PrideOfWales]

Agreed i have wathced the fight many times and up untill round 5 they are switching between winning rounds. Then Kessler seems to loose his stamina. I was really impressed by JC in that fight i had kessler as a sure win, but damn JC can suck up punches. The two uppercuts from MK in round 4 would have shaken anyone, JC just shrugged.
That coupled with his workrate won him the fight, but it was close. I still think Kessler would have a chance in a rematch, he learned some valuable lessons in Cardiff.

I can guarentee that there will absolutely be no rematch. Calzaghe and ****** have seen too much of Kessler - Mikkel needs to think about alternative ways to construct his future career. Mikkel will need 2 more fights before challenging for a world title again, by this time, hopefully, Joe will have retired. There are plenty of other names out there for Kessler - the problem will be trying to get them in the ring with him.

[THN]

Kessler lost a battle but not the war, he'll come back even stronger.
In Cardiff he made me proud, he was fighting to the end, everything was wrong for him, to bad he'll never have another shot on Calzaghe, but I understand that and so does Kessler. I think he will go for the money in USA, afterall he got himself a name, it will be hard for him to unify the belts in smw.
they will avoid him as the plauge.

[Djarnis]

If Kessler or JC could beat any of these guys they would have already done so. This is what champions do. Well, at least they used to.
That they haven't engaged any of these elite fighters is a tremendous statement in itself.

There should be a "NONE" option.
Better yet, there should be a "never happen, because of excessive ducking" option.

Kessler has always fought the best available to him, hopefully he will continue to do this.
He would love to fight anypne on that list.

[cuchulain]

If they fought early next year, how many of the following boxers would you pick Mikkel Kessler to beat?


Jermain Taylor (168lbs)
Kelly Pavlik (168lbs)
Winky Wright (168lbs)
Bernard Hopkins (175)
Roy Jones Jnr (175)
Chad Dawson (175)

Befor his Calzaghe loss (and today also) I would pick Kessler over all of those mentioned, with the POSSIBLE exception of Dawson.

[thesandman]

If Kessler or JC could beat any of these guys they would have already done so. This is what champions do. Well, at least they used to.
That they haven't engaged any of these elite fighters is a tremendous statement in itself.

There should be a "NONE" option.
Better yet, there should be a "never happen, because of excessive ducking" option.

Wow, how simple to completely fuck up that argument.

"If anyone of those guys could beat either Calzaghe or Kessler, they would have by now."

I mean, Calzaghe and Kessler between them have beaten EVERYONE at supermiddle.

You think there's a reason Hopkins bypassed the division altogether - but is happy to fight at 170????

[The Kurgan]

He's from Mexico

Which is fully of Spanish blood.