max schmeling vs evander holyfield

[Mr Butt]

this fight is at cruiserweight and is the schmeling of the first louis fight against the holyfield of the first qawi fight ,gloves are of schmeling's era
the fight is over 15 rounds and there is no standing eight count.

[jaffay]

Holyfield to fast, to sharp and to good for Max. 4th round KO

[Ezzard]

Schmeling, absolutely no doubt. The guy who beat Louis is a superior fighter to the guy who beat Qawi.

Prime for prime would be much closer and I'd probably elan more towards Holyfield then, but it's close.

[KTFO]

Def wouldn't go the distance. Would be war. Holy was a force at cruiserweight. Schmeling's win against Louis was a strategy job. I just don't see Schmeling destroying Holyfield's chin. On the other hand we have Holy with Ko-power and decent technique. So I'd say Holy by late round stoppage.

[Beeston Brawler]

Schmelling would beat the Evander of the first Qawi fight.

But not the Evander of the 2nd.

[MrMarvel]

Why are we talking about crusierweights? Schmeling was 190 lbs. He was a heavyweight. So was Holyfield at this weight.

War? Before Schmeling destroyed Louis, he had been outpointed by Jack Sharkey and knocked out by Max Baer. He then dropped a decision to Steve Hamas and drew with Paulino Uzcudun. War? Please. Schmeling's only victory in this pre-Louis series was against middleweight Mickey Walker.

Louis took the Schmeling fight because he figured Schmeling was a has-been. And, really, Schmeling was. The problem was that Schmeling wasn't enough of a has-been for Louis.

I suppose people think Holyfield-Schmeling is a competitive fight because they believe Louis beats Holyfield and Schmeling handled Louis. There's a bad assumption in there. It's not hard to figure out.

[MrMarvel]

Put Holyfield in with Louis. They were the same size then. Holyfield will beat Louis.

[Chris Warren]

MrMarvel probably because 190 pounds isnt a heavyweight anymore it is a cruiserweight.

Schmeling knocking Louis out isnt much of a big deal since Louis couldnt take a punch. Holyfield on the other hand could. Holyfield moved up and beat big fighters like Bowe. Max didnt and couldnt do the same.

Holyfield would slaughter Schmeling.

[Maxmomer]

It would be a war of attrition. Slight edge to Holyfield.

[Quick Cash]

12 fights into his career might be cutting it too close. Put a little more seasoning on him, then he should win it. Victory through volume; starting and then finishing the exchanges.

[frankenfrank]

i voted holyfield but only after it i noticed it is the 1st qawi fight holyfield.
this makes it a tough question. i don't know , holyfield inexperienced .


to the mods and admin :

why i can't see the votes after i vote in a public poll ?

[Holmes' Jab]

Evander, by UD.

[frankenfrank]

Put Holyfield in with Louis. They were the same size then. Holyfield will beat Louis.
a 3rd true assessment ! you do not fit here !

[frankenfrank]

MrMarvel probably because 190 pounds isnt a heavyweight anymore it is a cruiserweight.

Schmeling knocking Louis out isnt much of a big deal since Louis couldnt take a punch. Holyfield on the other hand could. Holyfield moved up and beat big fighters like Bowe. Max didnt and couldnt do the same.

Holyfield would slaughter Schmeling.

holyfield didn't really beat bowe , though , it is 2(1):1(0) for bowe , with holyfields' win a close MD. it is much more of 'bowe beat holyfield'.

and seen 3 fights , btw , each one twice and more , i think that actually 3 times each one.

[JIm Broughton]

I se Holyfield winning by mid round KO. Too much speed, chin,power and combination punching. Max would try for a sneaky right hand bomb to set up a fight ending combo but that's his only chance (and a small one at that). Holy would overwhelm him.

[janitor]

This is a hard fight to figure out. I don't think that it would end in a knockout win for either fighter. Holyfield was incredibly durable himself but probably did not have enough power to take schmeling out. That leaves it in the hands of the judges.

In theory Schmeling's style is well suited to countering Holyfield because he was a specialist in countering orthodox fighters. I could see him outboxing Holyfield. On the other hand Holyfield has his own box of tricks and a high workrate. I could see him getting wise to Schmelings ways and turning the tables on him.

I will vote with Schmeling due to the fact that Holyfield is still developing at this stage and has the stylistic edge.

[GDG]

I se Holyfield winning by mid round KO. Too much speed, chin,power and combination punching. Max would try for a sneaky right hand bomb to set up a fight ending combo but that's his only chance (and a small one at that). Holy would overwhelm him.


Holyfield isn't unhittable though. If he gets rocked early...do you think the 12-0 Holyfield can keep his composure?? I'm not so sure.

I'd take prime Evander by TKO, but I think I like Schmeling in this one!!
Good fight.

[janitor]

On a side note Schmeling would probably have done prety well against Qawi.

He seemed to excel against fighters with that sort of style.

[McGrain]

I will vote with Schmeling due to the fact that Holyfield is still developing at this stage and has the stylistic edge.

I guess me too, but with no conviction. Wonderful, wonderful fight.

[frankenfrank]

This is a hard fight to figure out. I don't think that it would end in a knockout win for either fighter. Holyfield was incredibly durable himself but probably did not have enough power to take schmeling out. That leaves it in the hands of the judges.

then how do you explain schmellings' previous stoppage losses ?

[GDG]

then how do you explain schmellings' previous stoppage losses ?

I think the point is, on that night Joe Louis wasn't able to, so........................

[Bummy Davis]

This is a very tough fight for me to pick...I like Evanders strength and heart but I could see max being effective with his counters and could see him hurt Evander with his right hand..this is a very competitive fight and it could come down to a ebb and flow battle over 15 or a KO along the way. Max would use his angles and movement and Evander would want to trade. If Evander gets hurt like he did against Burt Cooper expect Schmeling to finish him. Evander can punch but he is not at the level of Louis or Baer with one punch....I may lean torwards Max here because of the style configuration

[janitor]

then how do you explain schmellings' previous stoppage losses ?

The only people who stopped him anywhere close to his prime were Louis and Baer, the two most formidable punchers of that era.

[frankenfrank]

Why are we talking about crusierweights? Schmeling was 190 lbs. He was a heavyweight. So was Holyfield at this weight.

War? Before Schmeling destroyed Louis, he had been outpointed by Jack Sharkey and knocked out by Max Baer. He then dropped a decision to Steve Hamas and drew with Paulino Uzcudun. War? Please. Schmeling's only victory in this pre-Louis series was against middleweight Mickey Walker.

Louis took the Schmeling fight because he figured Schmeling was a has-been. And, really, Schmeling was. The problem was that Schmeling wasn't enough of a has-been for Louis.

I suppose people think Holyfield-Schmeling is a competitive fight because they believe Louis beats Holyfield and Schmeling handled Louis. There's a bad assumption in there. It's not hard to figure out.

Put Holyfield in with Louis. They were the same size then. Holyfield will beat Louis.

n[/B];5130332]MrMarvel probably because 190 pounds isnt a heavyweight anymore it is a cruiserweight.

Schmeling knocking Louis out isnt much of a big deal since Louis couldnt take a punch. Holyfield on the other hand could. Holyfield moved up and beat big fighters like Bowe. Max didnt and couldnt do the same.

Holyfield would slaughter Schmeling.
good posts from d good posters

[frankenfrank]

The only people who stopped him anywhere close to his prime were Louis and Baer, the two most formidable punchers of that era.
and a bad post from 1 of d worse posters .
Max Diekmann , Larry Gains , Gipsy Daniels , Max Baer stopped him b4 he even faced Louis , then he also had 2 decision losses and 4 draws and who knows how many robbery and foul wins in Germany , also prior 2 knocking out Joe Louis . Schmelling was crap and Louis was KOd by him .
chmelling was also 31 and smaller than Louis by d time of their 1st fight which Schmelling won by KO , yet 2 yrs later Louis KOd a 33 yrs old Schmelling and there was never a rubber match . Great Joe Louis ..

[bodhi]

Voted before I read the thread. Stupid. At hw it is a no brainer. Holyfield would be bigger and a bit better. At cw however it is different.

IMO even at his best Holyfield lacks the experience to deal with a savvy and tricky fighter as Schmeling was. He would have no size advantage, the speed advantage would be marginal if there would be any, power-wise I think this one goes to Schmeling who also would be the superior ring general, counter-puncher and would have show a better defence. Would be a competable fight no doubt but in the end Schmeling would control it for the most part and put more rounds in the bag than Holyfield. 10-5 or 9-6 for the Black Uhlan.


Why are we talking about crusierweights? Schmeling was 190 lbs. He was a heavyweight. So was Holyfield at this weight.

War? Before Schmeling destroyed Louis, he had been outpointed by Jack Sharkey and knocked out by Max Baer. He then dropped a decision to Steve Hamas and drew with Paulino Uzcudun. War? Please. Schmeling's only victory in this pre-Louis series was against middleweight Mickey Walker.

Louis took the Schmeling fight because he figured Schmeling was a has-been. And, really, Schmeling was. The problem was that Schmeling wasn't enough of a has-been for Louis.

I suppose people think Holyfield-Schmeling is a competitive fight because they believe Louis beats Holyfield and Schmeling handled Louis. There's a bad assumption in there. It's not hard to figure out.

Lots of assumptions by this boxrec scholar here. Little reminder, general is one up.

[Legend X]

I'm a huge fan of Holyfield but this is really a no-brainer ...

.. The question is the Holyfield of Qawi 1 in 1986 versus the Schmeling who beat Joe Louis in 1936 .... Holyfield barely beat Qawi, a superb all-time performance for a novice professional BUT nowhere good enough to beat that version of Max Schmeling.

Schmeling's experience was too much for a 24-0, #1 rated, 198-pound Joe Louis.
He'd be too much for the 12-0, 186 pound Holyfield, for sure.

[frankenfrank]

I'm a huge fan of Holyfield but this is really a no-brainer ...

.. The question is the Holyfield of Qawi 1 in 1986 versus the Schmeling who beat Joe Louis in 1936 .... Holyfield barely beat Qawi, a superb all-time performance for a novice professional BUT nowhere good enough to beat that version of Max Schmeling.

Schmeling's experience was too much for a 24-0, #1 rated, 198-pound Joe Louis.
He'd be too much for the 12-0, 186 pound Holyfield, for sure.
Qawi >> Schmelling . If those unknowns stopped him , novice Holyfield and veteran Qawi could 2 .

[bodhi]

Qawi >> Schmelling . If those unknowns stopped him , novice Holyfield and veteran Qawi could 2 .

Hush, back to your cave troll.

[frankenfrank]

Hush, back to your cave troll.
quite obvious 2 get this reply from this poster 2 my post .
my reply 2 janitor holds 4 u2 :
and a bad post from 1 of d worse posters .
Max Diekmann , Larry Gains , Gipsy Daniels , Max Baer stopped him b4 he even faced Louis , then he also had 2 decision losses and 4 draws and who knows how many robbery and foul wins in Germany , also prior 2 knocking out Joe Louis . Schmelling was crap and Louis was KOd by him .
chmelling was also 31 and smaller than Louis by d time of their 1st fight which Schmelling won by KO , yet 2 yrs later Louis KOd a 33 yrs old Schmelling and there was never a rubber match . Great Joe Louis ..

[MadcapMaxie]

Holyfield takes it buts its more competitive than alot are making out

[Legend X]

I find it incredible that so many are making a 186-pound 12-0 Holyfield a favourite over a 1936 Schmeling.

[bodhi]

quite obvious 2 get this reply from this poster 2 my post .
my reply 2 janitor holds 4 u2 :
and a bad post from 1 of d worse posters .
Max Diekmann , Larry Gains , Gipsy Daniels , Max Baer stopped him b4 he even faced Louis , then he also had 2 decision losses and 4 draws and who knows how many robbery and foul wins in Germany , also prior 2 knocking out Joe Louis . Schmelling was crap and Louis was KOd by him .
chmelling was also 31 and smaller than Louis by d time of their 1st fight which Schmelling won by KO , yet 2 yrs later Louis KOd a 33 yrs old Schmelling and there was never a rubber match . Great Joe Louis ..

And Orlin Norris is Top10 p4p. :lol:


I find it incredible that so many are making a 186-pound 12-0 Holyfield a favourite over a 1936 Schmeling.

Why? Boxing started either with SRR or Ali or somewhere in the 80s, depends on definition. Everything before was crap.

[he grant]

An interesting fight .. I think Holyfield was too gifted and had that incredible chin but who knows ? I'm just not sure Max would be busy enough ... however a very competitive bout ...

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

The best Holyfield would press Max........Would be difficult to Max land any of those counter-punches with the right with Holyfield all over him.....because Max wasn´t too fast IMO....Holyfield was faster and threw better combinations !

[edward morbius]

Why are we talking about crusierweights? Schmeling was 190 lbs. He was a heavyweight. So was Holyfield at this weight.

War? Before Schmeling destroyed Louis, he had been outpointed by Jack Sharkey and knocked out by Max Baer. He then dropped a decision to Steve Hamas and drew with Paulino Uzcudun. War? Please. Schmeling's only victory in this pre-Louis series was against middleweight Mickey Walker.

Louis took the Schmeling fight because he figured Schmeling was a has-been. And, really, Schmeling was. The problem was that Schmeling wasn't enough of a has-been for Louis.

I suppose people think Holyfield-Schmeling is a competitive fight because they believe Louis beats Holyfield and Schmeling handled Louis. There's a bad assumption in there. It's not hard to figure out.


I think this list of Schmeling failures is misleading.

Most thought he actually deserved the decision in the loss to Sharkey.

Most thought he actually deserved the decision in the draw with Uzcudun.

The first loss to Hamas was legit, but Max gave Hamas such a beating in the return that he ended his career.

That leaves Max Baer. Okay.

I think the more experienced Schmeling edges the young Holyfield in a close one. Of course the juiced Holyfield of latter years would be too much for Max who did not have the option of supplements.

[greynotsoold]

Schmeling out-foxed Louis. Louis was a better fighter than Holyfield, especially Holyfield in his 12th fight. Much higher boxing IQ than Holyfield and the wisdom of Blackburn as well and still beaten by Schmeling and a brilliant tactical fight. Max would school Holyfield as well; outsmart him and stop him late.

[Legend X]

Why? Boxing started either with SRR or Ali or somewhere in the 80s, depends on definition. Everything before was crap.

:lol:

Yeah, I didn't think of that.


I should correct my previous statement, Holyfield was 11-0 , not 12-0.
And people think that Holyfield beats a guy who a 24-0 Joe Louis couldn't beat. :patsch

[Legend X]

Schmeling out-foxed Louis. Louis was a better fighter than Holyfield, especially Holyfield in his 12th fight. Much higher boxing IQ than Holyfield and the wisdom of Blackburn as well and still beaten by Schmeling and a brilliant tactical fight. Max would school Holyfield as well; outsmart him and stop him late.


:deal

:good

[mr. magoo]

Even a cruiserweight Holyfield, would have been considered a heavyweight by the standards of the thirties. He showed early on that he could go 15 rounds in an all out war with a great like Qawi, was in phenomenal condition, and had extensive amateur pedigree. I think his chances of beating Schmeling were still pretty strong, but Max's experience and tricky style would make this up for grabs.

[frankenfrank]

And Orlin Norris is Top10 p4p. :lol:

and if he isn't then he's just a few (1-5) places below it .


Why? Boxing started either with SRR or Ali or somewhere in the 80s, depends on definition. Everything before was crap.
Not at all , boxing died when Holmes retired , with d sole lights shining out of Hopkins & Lewis .

[frankenfrank]

I think this list of Schmeling failures is misleading.

Most thought he actually deserved the decision in the loss to Sharkey.

Most thought he actually deserved the decision in the draw with Uzcudun.

The first loss to Hamas was legit, but Max gave Hamas such a beating in the return that he ended his career.

That leaves Max Baer. Okay.

I think the more experienced Schmeling edges the young Holyfield in a close one. Of course the juiced Holyfield of latter years would be too much for Max who did not have the option of supplements.
while ur at it would u mind adressing this ?:
Max Diekmann , Larry Gains , Gipsy Daniels , Max Baer stopped him b4 he even faced Louis , then he also had 2 decision losses and 4 draws and who knows how many robbery and foul wins in Germany , also prior 2 knocking out Joe Louis . Schmelling was crap and Louis was KOd by him .
chmelling was also 31 and smaller than Louis by d time of their 1st fight which Schmelling won by KO , yet 2 yrs later Louis KOd a 33 yrs old Schmelling and there was never a rubber match . Great Joe Louis ..

[frankenfrank]

Schmeling out-foxed Louis. Louis was a better fighter than Holyfield, especially Holyfield in his 12th fight. Much higher boxing IQ than Holyfield and the wisdom of Blackburn as well and still beaten by Schmeling and a brilliant tactical fight. Max would school Holyfield as well; outsmart him and stop him late.
just like he did gipsy daniels , larry gains , Max Baer and co ..
Schmelling does what Tyson couldn't in 2 fights out of 2 , Lewis couldn't in 2 out of 2 against quite a shot Evander , and Bowe couldn't in 2 out of 3 and possibly managed in d 3rd due 2 Holyfield having Hepatitis and being past his prime .
I'd mention Ruiz as well because Ruiz >> Schmelling , just not 4u homoerotic romanticists .

[The_Rock]

I think I would favor Holyfield.

[gentleman jim]

Evander at his best takes this one. Schmeling was good but I think his upset of Louis tends to get him overrated. Holyfield had too much of everything for Max. Holy by ko around the 7th or 8th.

[Hookie]

Why are we talking about crusierweights? Schmeling was 190 lbs. He was a heavyweight. So was Holyfield at this weight.

War? Before Schmeling destroyed Louis, he had been outpointed by Jack Sharkey and knocked out by Max Baer. He then dropped a decision to Steve Hamas and drew with Paulino Uzcudun. War? Please. Schmeling's only victory in this pre-Louis series was against middleweight Mickey Walker.

Louis took the Schmeling fight because he figured Schmeling was a has-been. And, really, Schmeling was. The problem was that Schmeling wasn't enough of a has-been for Louis.

I suppose people think Holyfield-Schmeling is a competitive fight because they believe Louis beats Holyfield and Schmeling handled Louis. There's a bad assumption in there. It's not hard to figure out.


...not me, I don't think Max has a snowballs chance in hell

[bodhi]

and if he isn't then he's just a few (1-5) places below it .

Q. e. d.



Not at all , boxing died when Holmes retired , with d sole lights shining out of Hopkins & Lewis .

So, boxing died in 2002? :huh