Is Hatton's resume better than Tszyu?

[Stinky gloves]

If yes than Hatton is ATG as Tszyu is.

[nervousxtian]

Not yet.

[gatorage]

He's got a 35 year old Tszyu and a Castillo who has struggled to make weight for the last two years.

He has yet to fight an elite fighter who is not on the downhill.

[MSTR]

Some fans are so ignorant when it comes to KT. Look at his career and how many world champions that he beat. Hatton has a way to go yet, although I will admit he is on the right path.

[PorkChopExpress]

His win over Tszyu can get no more credit than Tszyu's win over Chavez which on these boards, isn't a great deal but is still a decent scalp...

Hatton is elite and has good wins. He's shown he's up there with the best at the moment but is a long way off ATG. Tszyu's resume alone doesn't make him an ATG. It's his skill sets and achievements that have done that along with his record.

Hatton's 43 - 0 is made less impressive when you look at the entire mid-section of his career in respect to ATGreatness...

[Asterion]

Fuck no.

Tszyu: Jake Rodriguez, Roger Mayweather, Hugo Pineda, Rafael Ruelas, Hurtado, MA Gonzales, shot JCC, Sharmba Mitchell (X2), Urkal, Judah, Tackie and Leija.

Hatton: Ben Tackie, Michael Stewart, past-prime Tszyu, Maussa, Collazo and Jose Luis Castillo.

[CHATABOX]

Who has Hatton beaten to be rated an ATG? Hold your horses!

[achillesthegreat]

In terms of opposition yes. Tszyu is better than anyone on Tszyus record. The same is probably true for Castillo. Tszyu never beat guys who were great going into the fight or even post fight.

Tszyus has the longevity, dominance, defences etc that Hatton has to pick up.

[Relentless]

yes hatton is close, the best fighters tszyu beat were sharmba mitchell and zab judah

best fighters hatton beat were castillo and tszyu.

[Archie_Moore]

Fuck no.

Tszyu: Jake Rodriguez, Roger Mayweather, Hugo Pineda, Rafael Ruelas, Hurtado, MA Gonzales, shot JCC, Sharmba Mitchell (X2), Urkal, Judah, Tackie and Leija.

Hatton: Ben Tackie, Michael Stewart, past-prime Tszyu, Maussa, Collazo and Jose Luis Castillo.

:good

[Smith]

He's got a 35 year old Tszyu and a Castillo who has struggled to make weight for the last two years.

He has yet to fight an elite fighter who is not on the downhill.

Same could be said of Mayweather, and he's an ATG!:patsch





-------



btw, i think hatoon has a few big fights left before he can be considered an ATG

[jimmie]

Same could be said of Mayweather, and he's an ATG!:patsch

Yeah Floyds resume can be picked at Baldomir was just a journeymen in the right place at the right time, Judah has never been a great fighter and was coming off another loss, DLH hadnt beat a real good fighter in 5 years and was 34, 1st Castillo fight was extremly close and contreversally, Genaro Hernendaz was past his peak, Corrales was arguablly weight drained. But I can do that with any fighter even Ali his wins over Fraizer were after Foreman destroyed him, Foreman didnt train properly in the Altitude, Archie Moore and Floyd Patterson were both past it, Ken Norton where close close wins etc. Not comparing Floyds resume or Alis but I hope u get what I mean.

[Smith]

Yeah Floyds resume can be picked at Baldomir was just a journeymen in the right place at the right time, Judah has never been a great fighter and was coming off another loss, DLH hadnt beat a real good fighter in 5 years and was 34, 1st Castillo fight was extremly close and contreversally, Genaro Hernendaz was past his peak, Corrales was arguablly weight drained. But I can do that with any fighter even Ali his wins over Fraizer were after Foreman destroyed him, Foreman didnt train properly in the Altitude, Archie Moore and Floyd Patterson were both past it, Ken Norton where close close wins etc. Not comparing Floyds resume or Alis but I hope u get what I mean.

I do get what you mean, entirely, was just replying to the kid or kids that always will say Castillo & Tszyu where shot! These are the same people before the fights that dmended they fight them & didnt give him a hope in hell.

[Beatboxer]

Yeah Floyds resume can be picked at Baldomir was just a journeymen in the right place at the right time, Judah has never been a great fighter and was coming off another loss, DLH hadnt beat a real good fighter in 5 years and was 34, 1st Castillo fight was extremly close and contreversally, Genaro Hernendaz was past his peak, Corrales was arguablly weight drained. But I can do that with any fighter even Ali his wins over Fraizer were after Foreman destroyed him, Foreman didnt train properly in the Altitude, Archie Moore and Floyd Patterson were both past it, Ken Norton where close close wins etc. Not comparing Floyds resume or Alis but I hope u get what I mean.

Very well put

it is easy to twist any fighters resume to suit ones argument even the great Alis

Now as far as this threads title is concerned i agree with Achillies

Ricky has beaten better fighters than Zoo did

but Zoo has the longetivity and reign at the top and beat alot more B level fighters than Hatton has...im a Hatton fan but fuck sake he fought bums under ****** for ages!

but since 2005 he has the scalps of Zoo and Castillo and slightly faded or not those are BIG scalps

Zoo himself never beat a fighter the equal of Castillo or himself

[jimmie]

I do get what you mean, entirely, was just replying to the kid or kids that always will say Castillo & Tszyu where shot! These are the same people before the fights that dmended they fight them & didnt give him a hope in hell.

Tszyu was shot by no means he had just complety destroyed Sharmba Mitchell in 3 rounds I think :huh Sure he was like 35 and inactive but hes not shot thats the same thing with DLH alittle past it but clearly not shot still a competitve fighter. Castillo is a fight I never demanded cause Hatton ran away from 147 where the best fighters where Floyd,Cotto,Margarito,Cintron,Collazo rematch,Judah,Mosley etc. I do think Castillo is close to shot them Corrales fights took something out of him obviously hes so slow and weak looking his punches seem to have no velocity behind them and hes looked that way his last few fights. Even if he wasnt im not sure these people hear would be satisfied you feel there frequent users of the double standards. Hatton beats a possibly shot Castillo and he gets flamed while Pacquiao fights a CLEARLY shot Morales and is praised for it he takes 3 fights in a row where a guy is coming off a loss and when Floyd does it with Judah hes flamed. Floyd beats Judah coming off 1 loss then Cotto does it when Judahs coming off 2 losses and Cottos praised. Its fucking bullshit thats why I spend time mostly in the lounge,MMA or Training.

[Smith]

Tszyu was shot by no means he had just complety destroyed Sharmba Mitchell in 3 rounds I think :huh Sure he was like 35 and inactive but hes not shot thats the same thing with DLH alittle past it but clearly not shot still a competitve fighter. Castillo is a fight I never demanded cause Hatton ran away from 147 where the best fighters where Floyd,Cotto,Margarito,Cintron,Collazo rematch,Judah,Mosley etc. I do think Castillo is close to shot them Corrales fights took something out of him obviously hes so slow and weak looking his punches seem to have no velocity behind them and hes looked that way his last few fights. Even if he wasnt im not sure these people hear would be satisfied you feel there frequent users of the double standards. Hatton beats a possibly shot Castillo and he gets flamed while Pacquiao fights a CLEARLY shot Morales and is praised for it he takes 3 fights in a row where a guy is coming off a loss and when Floyd does it with Judah hes flamed. Floyd beats Judah coming off 1 loss then Cotto does it when Judahs coming off 2 losses and Cottos praised. Its fucking bullshit thats why I spend time mostly in the lounge,MMA or Training.

:good

Exactly the same mate. I rarely venture into the general boxing forum now, especially in the aftermath of fights, some of the people here are so fickle its untrue.

[Stinky gloves]

Which shot was better, KT KO Judah or Hatton KO Castillo?
I don't mean funnier but more devastating.

[brooklyn1550]

Tszyu's dominance for many years puts him above Hatton all time, but Hatton's two biggest win's are as big, if not bigger, than Tszyu's wins over Mitchell and Judah.

[flipmode]

Duh, of course Hatton's 'resume' is better than Tszyu's as Hatton can put down one of the defeated people as Kosta Tszyu.

The mentality of some people :p

[CarltonBlues]

Hatton wouldn't have even beat Tszyu if the fight was in Australia with a fair ref.

[Archie_Moore]

Very well put

it is easy to twist any fighters resume to suit ones argument even the great Alis

Now as far as this threads title is concerned i agree with Achillies

Ricky has beaten better fighters than Zoo did

but Zoo has the longetivity and reign at the top and beat alot more B level fighters than Hatton has...im a Hatton fan but fuck sake he fought bums under ****** for ages!

but since 2005 he has the scalps of Zoo and Castillo and slightly faded or not those are BIG scalps

Zoo himself never beat a fighter the equal of Castillo or himself

No fighter Hatton beat is better then the fighters Tszyu has on his resume. Tszyu dominated one of the toughest divisions in boxing and all the fighters he beat were in there primes (aside for JCC).

Tszyu's win over Judah is far better then that win over Castillo. Judah was at his very best and no one can deny that. With Castillo people knew he was on the downside of his career. It just wasn't how evident until his last 2 fights. :good

Look at Tszyu's record, the fighters he beat were very tough, and he dominated almsot all of them.

[Dekkers]

Fuck no.

Tszyu: Jake Rodriguez, Roger Mayweather, Hugo Pineda, Rafael Ruelas, Hurtado, MA Gonzales, shot JCC, Sharmba Mitchell (X2), Urkal, Judah, Tackie and Leija.

Hatton: Ben Tackie, Michael Stewart, past-prime Tszyu, Maussa, Collazo and Jose Luis Castillo.

Hatton also fought Tackie and Stewart past their best, Tszyu fought Tackie when he was still in rings top 10, big difference there.

[MancMexican]

Hatton wouldn't have even beat Tszyu if the fight was in Australia with a fair ref.

Not that you're bias at all of course...

[CarltonBlues]

Not that you're bias at all of course...

I'm not, he was crucified in that fight. He was my favourite fighter but I know he had limits. Oscar and Mosley would have whooped him but I still think he would have beat Hatton in a fair bout.

[gatorage]

Jake Rodriguez : Reigning World Champion
Jan Bergman : Undefeated at the time. Highly rated.
Hugo Pineda : Highly Rated at the time
Rafael Ruelas : past it when fought Tszyu.
Hurtado : one defeat to Pernell Whitacker only.
MA Gonzales : one defeat to De La Hoya only. World Champion
Shot JCC : Fight should not have happened
Sharmba Mitchell : World Champion at the time.
Urkal : Undefeated when he fought Tszyu
Judah : Undefeated world champ. Tszyu considered underdog.
Tackie : Solid if underwhelming fighter. Tszyu's performance in this fight was impressive though. Tszyu boxes him beautifully.
Roger Mayweather : Past it when fought Tszyu.
Juan Laporte : Past it when fought Tszyu, but was only Tszyu's forth pro fight.
Sharmba 2 : Mitchell had not been put down in eleven years and was the favourite. Impressive win with Tszyu coming off a serious shoulder injury.
Leija : Solid fighter. Could say he was past it when fought Tszyu, except Tszyu was older.

Losses to Phillips and Hatton obviously dent the record and that includes the obvious fact he actually lost to Hatton (although that was the final fight of his career and he went down fighting).

Two fights he failed to make weight first attempt? Hatton and Phillips
Trainer told him to retire after Mitchell 2 after seeing motivation start to wane. Trainer told him to delay Phillips fight due to being sued by promoter and training interrupted by court appearances.

Not excuses, but I think Tszyu tarnished his legacy with some poor decision making at the time as well as some arrogance in under-estimating some hungry opponents. Tried to out-slug concrete chinned Phillips when his corner had told him to box and take the win on the cards, then tried to fight on the inside with Hatton when his corner told him to jab and set up for the right (which he started doing in the middle rounds, his most successful, before fading which to me was a combination of Hatton pressure, weight drain and age)

Hatton then refused a rematch (publically).

Tszyu lacks one more big win to really establish him as the premiere 140 pound fighter (despite thirteen title defences and title unification). He needed to win the Phillips fight as the promise was a show-down with De La Hoya.

All that said, his resume is better than Hatton's. Tszyu destroyed the best versions of world champion fighters like Mitchell and Judah quicker than anyone else. He fought good and dangerous fighters from the very beginning. Add to that he is considered one of the best amateur fighters ever, as well as the nicest sportman I can think of, and he deserves some respect.

[rekcutnevets]

Not at the moment, but there are a lot of guys that want to fight him now. Mayweather, Casmayor, and Harris have all called him out on one particular web site.

Without getting into future outcomes, and just assuming he wins those, then he would surpass Tszyu.

Hatton doesn't really have a win as significant as Tszyu's win over Juhah at the moment. He also has fewer upperclass wins in general. I'm not saying he won't surpass him, he just hasn't.

[BoppaZoo]

TSZYU's record. *Title Fights

4. J.Laporte (37-12-0) (Juan was 33) WBC Champ (UD 10)
10. L.Bramble (34-11-3) (Bramble was 33) WBA Champ (UD 10)
11. H.Lopez (26-2-1) (Hector was 27) NABF Champ (UD 10)
14. J.Rodriguez (26-2-2) (Jake was 30) IBF Champ (TKO 6)*IBF belt
15. R.Mayweather (54-11-0) (Roger was 34) WBC Champ (UD 12)*IBF belt
16. H.Pineda (27-0-1) (Hugo was 25) WBA Latin Champ (TKO 11)*IBF belt
17. C.Johnson (20-1-1) (Cory was 25) IBC Champ (KO 4)*IBF belt
18. J.Bergman (32-0-0) (Jan was 27) WBC Int Champ (KO 6)*IBF belt
23. R.Ruelas (52-3-0) (Rafael was 27IBF Champ (TKO 9)
24. D.Hurtado (28-1-0) (Dios was 26) WBA Champ (TKO 5)*WBC belt
25. M.A.Gonzalez (43-1-1) (Miguel was 29) WBC Champ (TKO 10)*WBC belt
26. A.Santos (26-2-4) (Ahmed was 26) NABF Champ (TKO 8WBC belt
27. J.C.Chavez (103-4-2) (Julio was 37) IBF,WBC,WBA Champ (TKO 6)*WBC
28. S.Mitchell (47-2-0) (Sharmba was 31) WBA Champ (TKO 7)*WBC,WBA
29. O.Urkal (28-0-0) (Oktay was 31) WBC int Champ (UD 12)*WBA,WBC
30. Z.Judah (27-0-0) (Zab was 25) IBF,WBC,WBA Champ (TKO 2)*Undisputed
31. B.Tackie (24-2-0) (Ben was 29) NABF Champ (UD 12)*Undisputed
32. J.J.Lieja (43-5-2) (Jesse was 37) NABF Champ (TKO 6)*Undisputed
33. S.Mitchell (55-3-0) (Sharmba was 34) WBA Champ (TKO 3)*IBF


RICKY HATTON
22. J.Thaxton (19-5-0) (Jon was 26) IBF Int Champ (UD 12)
23. T.Pep (42-7-1) (Tony was 37) IBO Champ (TKO 4)
26. F.Pendleton (47-25-5) (Fred was 38 ) IBF Champ (KO 2)
29. E.Magee (23-2-0) (Eamon was 31) WBU Champ (UD 12)
32. V.Phillips (44-7-1) (Vince was 40) IBF Champ (UD 12)
34. B.Tackie (24-4-0) (Ben was 30) NABF Champ (UD 12)
37. M.Stewart (36-2-2) (Michael was 27) USBA Champ (TKO 5)
38. R.Oliveira (47-9-2) (Ray was 36) NABF Champ (KO 10)
39. K.Tszyu (31-1-0) (Kostya was 36) IBF,WBC,WBA Champ (RET 11)*IBF
40. C.Muasaa (20-2-0) (Carlos was 34) WBA Champ (KO 9)*IBF,WBA
41. L.Collazo (26-1-0) (Lius was 25) WBA Champ (UD 12)*WBA
42. J.Urango (17-0-1) (Juan was 26) IBF Champ (UD 12)*IBF
43. J.L.Castillo (55-7-1) (Jose was 33) WBC Champ (KO 4)

so there we have both careers on display if you think one is better than the other after this post read through and tell me your vote.

me i personally believe Zoo has faced more prime guys and had clearly way more title fights.
this topic isnt even close.

[Mook]

In terms of opposition yes. Tszyu is better than anyone on Tszyus record. The same is probably true for Castillo. Tszyu never beat guys who were great going into the fight or even post fight.

Tszyus has the longevity, dominance, defences etc that Hatton has to pick up.

I agree with this.

also people saying that Tszyu was past his prime... Maybe his physical prime, sure. but he was a far smarter better fighter than he was in his physical peak during his late 20s. Unless it is absolutely obvious - ie as much as I rate LL's other achievements, the Tyson that fought Lewis or the Chavez that took on ODLH - I think this prime and peak stuff is a bit of nonsense. The Tsyu that fought Hatton and Mitchell could well have beaten the Tszyu that beat Chavez.

when was LL prime? vs Ruddock or vs Holy? Almost certainly vs Ruddock, but he was a better fighter by the time he fought Holyfield.

the Tszyu win was a superb result for any fighter full stop.

[BoppaZoo]

I agree with this.

also people saying that Tszyu was past his prime... Maybe his physical prime, sure. but he was a far smarter better fighter than he was in his physical peak during his late 20s. Unless it is absolutely obvious - ie as much as I rate LL's other achievements, the Tyson that fought Lewis or the Chavez that took on ODLH - I think this prime and peak stuff is a bit of nonsense. The Tsyu that fought Hatton and Mitchell could well have beaten the Tszyu that beat Chavez.

when was LL prime? vs Ruddock or vs Holy? Almost certainly vs Ruddock, but he was a better fighter by the time he fought Holyfield.

the Tszyu win was a superb result for any fighter full stop.i dont care one anyone says but Tszyu had fought a total of 3 Professional Rounds of boxing in 2 and Half years before the Hatton.

even i as a Zoo fan knew it would be tough for him the longer the fight went on.

a win over a 36 year old Tszyu isnt as good as a win over him from 1997 until 2003 before the injury and huge layoff.

i mean some people forget that fighters can look old overnight and although Tszyu still fought hard and made Hatton work for it.

lets be honest 36 years of age when you have been fighting since 13 years of age can take its toll.

i give credit where credit is due and to beat Tszyu is a very huge win in my book but Phillips win in 1997 is better.

when people ask me about Tszyu beating Chavez i say the same thing well he was winding down in his career.
Ive also notice when Hatton fights Prime fighters he seams to go the distance and look very tired.

Great win by Hatton but Tszyu beating Judah at a time when he was underfeated and 25 years old and never lost.
is far better than Hatton beating Tszyu at 36.

[grayggr]

Tszyu's is clearly a better record.

Hatton still has time on his side to add some scalps to his record but simply cannot be compared to Kostya at the current time.

Hatton is only 28 and hopefully has 2/3 good years left in him, if he keeps active (at least 2 but should be 3 fights a year).

[deram]

TSZYU's record. *Title Fights

4. J.Laporte (37-12-0) (Juan was 33) WBC Champ (UD 10)
10. L.Bramble (34-11-3) (Bramble was 33) WBA Champ (UD 10)
11. H.Lopez (26-2-1) (Hector was 27) NABF Champ (UD 10)
14. J.Rodriguez (26-2-2) (Jake was 30) IBF Champ (TKO 6)*IBF belt
15. R.Mayweather (54-11-0) (Roger was 34) WBC Champ (UD 12)*IBF belt
16. H.Pineda (27-0-1) (Hugo was 25) WBA Latin Champ (TKO 11)*IBF belt
17. C.Johnson (20-1-1) (Cory was 25) IBC Champ (KO 4)*IBF belt
18. J.Bergman (32-0-0) (Jan was 27) WBC Int Champ (KO 6)*IBF belt
23. R.Ruelas (52-3-0) (Rafael was 27IBF Champ (TKO 9)
24. D.Hurtado (28-1-0) (Dios was 26) WBA Champ (TKO 5)*WBC belt
25. M.A.Gonzalez (43-1-1) (Miguel was 29) WBC Champ (TKO 10)*WBC belt
26. A.Santos (26-2-4) (Ahmed was 26) NABF Champ (TKO 8WBC belt
27. J.C.Chavez (103-4-2) (Julio was 37) IBF,WBC,WBA Champ (TKO 6)*WBC
28. S.Mitchell (47-2-0) (Sharmba was 31) WBA Champ (TKO 7)*WBC,WBA
29. O.Urkal (28-0-0) (Oktay was 31) WBC int Champ (UD 12)*WBA,WBC
30. Z.Judah (27-0-0) (Zab was 25) IBF,WBC,WBA Champ (TKO 2)*Undisputed
31. B.Tackie (24-2-0) (Ben was 29) NABF Champ (UD 12)*Undisputed
32. J.J.Lieja (43-5-2) (Jesse was 37) NABF Champ (TKO 6)*Undisputed
33. S.Mitchell (55-3-0) (Sharmba was 34) WBA Champ (TKO 3)*IBF


RICKY HATTON
22. J.Thaxton (19-5-0) (Jon was 26) IBF Int Champ (UD 12)
23. T.Pep (42-7-1) (Tony was 37) IBO Champ (TKO 4)
26. F.Pendleton (47-25-5) (Fred was 38 ) IBF Champ (KO 2)
29. E.Magee (23-2-0) (Eamon was 31) WBU Champ (UD 12)
32. V.Phillips (44-7-1) (Vince was 40) IBF Champ (UD 12)
34. B.Tackie (24-4-0) (Ben was 30) NABF Champ (UD 12)
37. M.Stewart (36-2-2) (Michael was 27) USBA Champ (TKO 5)
38. R.Oliveira (47-9-2) (Ray was 36) NABF Champ (KO 10)
39. K.Tszyu (31-1-0) (Kostya was 36) IBF,WBC,WBA Champ (RET 11)*IBF
40. C.Muasaa (20-2-0) (Carlos was 34) WBA Champ (KO 9)*IBF,WBA
41. L.Collazo (26-1-0) (Lius was 25) WBA Champ (UD 12)*WBA
42. J.Urango (17-0-1) (Juan was 26) IBF Champ (UD 12)*IBF
43. J.L.Castillo (55-7-1) (Jose was 33) WBC Champ (KO 4)

so there we have both careers on display if you think one is better than the other after this post read through and tell me your vote.

me i personally believe Zoo has faced more prime guys and had clearly way more title fights.
this topic isnt even close.

Agreed.

However, Hatton is doing well in terms of accomplishment. In terms of prime vs prime, Kostya is on a different level.

[Mook]

i dont care one anyone says but Tszyu had fought a total of 3 Professional Rounds of boxing in 2 and Half years before the Hatton.

even i as a Zoo fan knew it would be tough for him the longer the fight went on.

a win over a 36 year old Tszyu isnt as good as a win over him from 1997 until 2003 before the injury and huge layoff.

i mean some people forget that fighters can look old overnight and although Tszyu still fought hard and made Hatton work for it.

lets be honest 36 years of age when you have been fighting since 13 years of age can take its toll.

i give credit where credit is due and to beat Tszyu is a very huge win in my book but Phillips win in 1997 is better.

when people ask me about Tszyu beating Chavez i say the same thing well he was winding down in his career.
Ive also notice when Hatton fights Prime fighters he seams to go the distance and look very tired.

Great win by Hatton but Tszyu beating Judah at a time when he was underfeated and 25 years old and never lost.
is far better than Hatton beating Tszyu at 36.

although I don't entirely agree, it strikes me that you're not just twisting the facts to suit your argument, so I respect that opinion.

I don't think the Phillips win is better cos Tszyu became a much cannier fighter. the meeting of his experience and physical bests probably was the time of the Judah fight, though. It was certainly the fight that confirmed him as a Hall of Famer.

[Chiko_Tech]

Tszyu resume is overated, but Hatton need a more fights he had two good past his best fighter but no more.