muscle

[JMonster]

what does everybody think is the most important muscle for increasing power? and for speed?

[JMonster]

or the best exercise i guess

[gregsid]

Most power for punches comes from the legs, the rest from upperbody (back, shoulders, arms). Really the whole body is used in a single punch, if thrown properly that is.
It takes hard training and lots of fighting experience, to really increase power.
Don't think by going to the gym and lifting a few weights will do anything.

[Relentless]

there isn't a single muscle which increases punching power.

[viru§™]

If you want to become really strong the best thing you can do is push cars :good

[JMonster]

i know that...this is sorta like a poll...like which is the most important...cus i've heard plenty of people on here saying to people, "why would u do that exercise? that has no benefit to a boxer" so if people wanna talk bad about certain ones, let's talk about the good ones too...i personally belive that for speed and maybe even power that 2 important parts of the body r the lats. and also the whole back/torso/stomach

[scott c]

I think alot of people on here train like bod builders and are more about immage than anything else.

I think exercises that encompase the whole body are most usful due to the biomechanical requirements of a punch. They would be you cleans , jerks and snatch exercises. Then on a more specific note I do bench , latt pull down , bent over row and for legs i do front squats , leg press and one leged leg press. 6 reps of each at my 6rep max.

Hearing people talking about incline bench press or bicep and tricep workouts sems abit daft to me. And counterproductive.

The back is very important though as an injury there can really mess you up. Im contemplating adding seated row to my routiene. Im going to have a feweeks trial doing that as well to see how it goes.

Specific exercises like cable pulls etc should only be done if there is a specific weakness I think. But thats just my opinion and i don't know alot abut actual boxing. But iv been lifting for along time in other sports and it seems to be the same regardless of sport as it is conditioning an athlete and should not be the main focus.

[viru§™]

I think alot of people on here train like bod builders and are more about immage than anything else.

I think exercises that encompase the whole body are most usful due to the biomechanical requirements of a punch. They would be you cleans , jerks and snatch exercises. Then on a more specific note I do bench , latt pull down , bent over row and for legs i do front squats , leg press and one leged leg press. 6 reps of each at my 6rep max.

Hearing people talking about incline bench press or bicep and tricep workouts sems abit daft to me. And counterproductive.

The back is very important though as an injury there can really mess you up. Im contemplating adding seated row to my routiene. Im going to have a feweeks trial doing that as well to see how it goes.

Specific exercises like cable pulls etc should only be done if there is a specific weakness I think. But thats just my opinion and i don't know alot abut actual boxing. But iv been lifting for along time in other sports and it seems to be the same regardless of sport as it is conditioning an athlete and should not be the main focus.
In my opinion only bodybuilders or people who are recovering from an injury should use isolation lifts, and that includes using machines.

Your body has evolved as a unit, train it as one.

[gregsid]

In my opinion only bodybuilders or people who are recovering from an injury should use isolation lifts, and that includes using machines.

Your body has evolved as a unit, train it as one.

I agree with this.

[scott c]

I agree. ONly machines i use are lat pull down and may be using the seated row as we have a very good one at our gym. Its single arm and on pivots rather than your tipicle dual handle job and I have had back problems. I also use those elastic things for my shoulder atm as iv pulled two muscles in my rotator cuff holding pads but il swop that for shoulder press and then lifting the weight right above my head in snatch etc like I was doing before unjury.

Whats everyones veiws on lunges?

I used them alot in rehab and to strengthen VM controling Gluteals but I dont use them as part of actual training. Views would be appreciated.

[viru§™]

I agree. ONly machines i use are lat pull down and may be using the seated row as we have a very good one at our gym. Its single arm and on pivots rather than your tipicle dual handle job and I have had back problems. I also use those elastic things for my shoulder atm as iv pulled two muscles in my rotator cuff holding pads but il swop that for shoulder press and then lifting the weight right above my head in snatch etc like I was doing before unjury.
Can you do pull/chin-ups? If you can, why are you doing lat pulldown?

Whats everyones veiws on lunges?
Lunges are by far one of the most underated bodyweight exercises out there.

[KTFO]

i know that...this is sorta like a poll


Where's that poll? Would be good idea.

[gregsid]

Can you do pull/chin-ups? If you can, why are you doing lat pulldown?


Lunges are by far one of the most underated bodyweight exercises out there.

Again, I agree with this. In my opinion machines are useless.
They isolate one muscle group and forget about the rest of the body.
Calisentics and that's it. Only time you should incorperate weights is when your adding them you your calisenic workout (example, pullups with weighted vest, pushups with weighted vest, blah blah ect.)
Again this is my opinion and its worked very well for me and my students.

[lenzo]

Cardio, breathing. Long hard uphill runs for the legs. Sidesteps for strong ankles.
Without stance and balance, all the upper body power in the world wont hold you up. Remember what Hagler did to Hearns!

[scott c]

Can you do pull/chin-ups? If you can, why are you doing lat pulldown?


Lunges are by far one of the most underated bodyweight exercises out there.

DOing lat pull down due to the nature of my shoulder injury. One of the effected muscles hits the top of the scapular and gets inflamed when doing chin ups , pull up , press up etc. Because lat pull down is alsmost a reverse in contractions to chin ups its ok to do atm.

I keep it in my session though as I try to stay away from high rep exercises where possible due to te risk of overuse being greater for me personally than the gains in strength. Chin ups are mostly done in my circuits.

What about doing lunges at 6 rep max with a bar in front squat possition? OR walking 6 strides? Too risky at this weight? Have you tried it?

[gregsid]

DOing lat pull down due to the nature of my shoulder injury. One of the effected muscles hits the top of the scapular and gets inflamed when doing chin ups , pull up , press up etc. Because lat pull down is alsmost a reverse in contractions to chin ups its ok to do atm.

I keep it in my session though as I try to stay away from high rep exercises where possible due to te risk of overuse being greater for me personally than the gains in strength. Chin ups are mostly done in my circuits.

What about doing lunges at 6 rep max with a bar in front squat possition? OR walking 6 strides? Too risky at this weight? Have you tried it?

You should just get some physical therapy rather then take the chance of injuring yourself.

[scott c]

You should just get some physical therapy rather then take the chance of injuring yourself.

Is that with regards to the shoulder or the knee?

[gregsid]

Is that with regards to the shoulder or the knee?

Either or I guess, I don't know how badly you injured them. Go to a doctor and have them checked out and see what he suggests.

[scott c]

oh yeah iv been seeing a top physio for a long time. Its one of the reasons i switch to boxing as my knee is so badly damaged i wouldnt be able to do my last sport at elite level again. I tore my vastus medialis and had alot of scar tissue around it and myshoulder iv just pulled two of the muscles on the rotator cuff. I have a whole load of exercises and massage that i have everyday for that,

I was woundering on the effectiveness of lunges under weight. For example i do 4X6 front sqauts at 120kg This is a very safe exercise.

Lunges have been very productive in my rehab but I was woundering that if they were a safe exercise regardless of past injury under 6 rep max or if the knee would be prone to ACL tears etc due to the nature of the exercise.

And if it is deemed to be safe what would be the best way to execute them. Stationary or by doing strides down the track?

Thanks

[Nwil]

hitting the bag builds more power than any amount of lifting. I recently got a 100 lb. bag and the difference in my power in two weeks is superior to that of weight lifting. And it's not even the same - the weights build strength, but it's obviously more geared towards lifting/pushing rather than fast, explosive punching (with the exception of cleans, snatches...). And as for muscles, a power punch starts in the legs but also have a very strong core since you rotate on every power punch. Really, it's just mastering the technique, then applying it on the bag. I know guys who can punch hard as hell who rarely ever lift, because they have the technique and leverage.

[Relentless]

hitting the bag builds more power than any amount of lifting. I recently got a 100 lb. bag and the difference in my power in two weeks is superior to that of weight lifting. And it's not even the same - the weights build strength, but it's obviously more geared towards lifting/pushing rather than fast, explosive punching (with the exception of cleans, snatches...). And as for muscles, a power punch starts in the legs but also have a very strong core since you rotate on every power punch. Really, it's just mastering the technique, then applying it on the bag. I know guys who can punch hard as hell who rarely ever lift, because they have the technique and leverage.


placebo effect.


many pro boxer dont even use the heavy bag yet they still punch like sledge hammer.

[Nwil]

placebo effect.


many pro boxer dont even use the heavy bag yet they still punch like sledge hammer.

nah, not placebo effect. I wasn't expecting/thinking about any improvements in skill areas before I got it - I just wanted a hanging bag. I noticed it after hitting it consistently. and it makes sense that it would build more power, as you're hitting hard .....the actual motion, not just pushing a weight.

as for your 'boxers', they could have good genetics. and what specific examples do you have?

the heavy bag is the most essential piece of training equipment...

[Relentless]

nah, not placebo effect. I wasn't expecting/thinking about any improvements in skill areas before I got it - I just wanted a hanging bag. I noticed it after hitting it consistently. and it makes sense that it would build more power, as you're hitting hard .....the actual motion, not just pushing a weight.

as for your 'boxers', they could have good genetics. and what specific examples do you have?

the heavy bag is the most essential piece of training equipment...

you never used to use a hanging bag?

i remember asking marvin hagler about his training routine when he was in london to watch his friend compete in an amateur tournament and he told me how much he hated using the heavy bag, he said he didn't think it was necessary and you can get alot more done by focusing more on the pads and sparring.

joe calzaghe (although not a very hard hitter) doesn't use the bag often, infact i remember him saying he hates it because it hurts his hands, he also doesn't do alot of sparring.

Nigel Benn was a great puncher and he didn't use the bag that often, he also said he hated it, he liked sparring, pads and that body bag thing (its a circlular bag with 2 handles where the trainer holds)

these are just a few that i remember off the top of my head.

[Sagefrancis]

ive got strong doubts that the weight of your heavybag will have any effect on your power. you may as well be hitting a brick wall but the resistance is all the same.
get some heavier gloves and you'll be able to hit harder after a while because you have to move that weight, which increases strength, which i would argue increases power (if the techniques right of course).
but hitting a 100lb bag instead of a 150lb bag for example wont make you lose any power.

[Relentless]

in my gym the heaviest bag we have is probably a 100 lb and the rest go down from 80 to 40 and we have a record of 250 national champions who all used the same bags.

[Relentless]

nah, not placebo effect. I wasn't expecting/thinking about any improvements in skill areas before I got it - I just wanted a hanging bag. I noticed it after hitting it consistently. and it makes sense that it would build more power, as you're hitting hard .....the actual motion, not just pushing a weight.



that could be said about anything, why do you do push ups, your just pushing weight, why do you do GPP drills? why do you do sprint?

[Relentless]

ive got strong doubts that the weight of your heavybag will have any effect on your power. you may as well be hitting a brick wall but the resistance is all the same.
get some heavier gloves and you'll be able to hit harder after a while because you have to move that weight, which increases strength, which i would argue increases power (if the techniques right of course).
but hitting a 100lb bag instead of a 150lb bag for example wont make you lose any power.

IMO nothing beats punch outs on the heavy bag, or tabata punch outs.

or short power boxing rounds on the bag.

a heavy bag isn't really needed, just something that does not move so easy.

[box03]

Doing squats could help the power of your punch increase, I also found that wrist roller improves the snap at the end of your punch. But the thing that improves your punching power the most would be to learn the proper technique on how to throw certain punches, a good trainer will work with you to show you in steps how to throw a more powerful punch.

[Nwil]

you never used to use a hanging bag?

nah, didn't have anywhere to hang it, so I would use the hanging ones at my gym along with my standing one.

ive got strong doubts that the weight of your heavybag will have any effect on your power. you may as well be hitting a brick wall but the resistance is all the same.
get some heavier gloves and you'll be able to hit harder after a while because you have to move that weight, which increases strength, which i would argue increases power (if the techniques right of course).
but hitting a 100lb bag instead of a 150lb bag for example wont make you lose any power.

I agree that heavier gloves help - which is why I stick to 14 and 16 oz. Punching a heavier bag obviously improves power - it's simple: if you can move an 80 lb. bag x amount far, and then move up to 100 lb. bag and move it the same length with a punch, then you have increased your punching power. That's like saying benching more weight doesn't improve strength.

that could be said about anything, why do you do push ups, your just pushing weight, why do you do GPP drills? why do you do sprint?

yeah, I know, I wasn't saying don't do anything else; I was just giving the reason why I thought heavy bag built more power.

he said he didn't think it was necessary and you can get alot more done by focusing more on the pads and sparring.

yes, in a sense b/c pads help with speed, timing, accuracy, and sparring is....sparring. but the bag is so fundamental.

[gregsid]

It's a about preference, everyones body is different.
There is no better or worse drills, just do what you feel works the best for you.

[Sagefrancis]

I agree that heavier gloves help - which is why I stick to 14 and 16 oz. Punching a heavier bag obviously improves power - it's simple: if you can move an 80 lb. bag x amount far, and then move up to 100 lb. bag and move it the same length with a punch, then you have increased your punching power. That's like saying benching more weight doesn't improve strength.

not quite. When lifting weights you have constant resistance throughout the movement.
When hiitting a bag unless your pushing that bag after you hit it the weight wont matter at all, since we retract our punches after we throw them. The force that your going to apply to the bag has already been created before you make contact, and since you dont make further efforts to move the bag after that then theres no gains from using a heavier bag.

[viru§™]

not quite. When lifting weights you have constant resistance throughout the movement.
When hiitting a bag unless your pushing that bag after you hit it the weight wont matter at all, since we retract our punches after we throw them. The force that your going to apply to the bag has already been created before you make contact, and since you dont make further efforts to move the bag after that then theres no gains from using a heavier bag.
So your trying to say a guy hitting a 50lbs bag will have the same punching power as a guy punching a 150lbs bag?

That'll be your little secret :thumbsup

[Nwil]

The force that your going to apply to the bag has already been created before you make contact, and since you dont make further efforts to move the bag after that then theres no gains from using a heavier bag.

yes, the force is created before you connect, but how can you ignore that simple equation? Ok, instead of moving the bag, let's say when you hit an 80lb. with a left hook, it takes the force and wobbles back and forth for pretty long.....if you hit a 100 lb. bag and it wobbles back and forth the same way for the same amount of time, that is increased punch power.

Just go to a sporting goods store and hit an empty standing bag and watch it fall over.....and then (hypothetically) buy it and fill it up. if you can eventually knock it over with it full of sand, your power has increased through hitting it.

[Relentless]

both of you have valid points, i think there is no point of continuing this argument, there is no right or wrong answer to this.

[Sagefrancis]

of course if you can move an 80lb bag by hitting it and then move a 100lb bag the same distance you have increased punching power. what im saying is that its not the heavier bag that makes you more powerful. otherwise everyone would be buying 1000lb bags to get as strong as possible.