Hall of Fame...

[Luigi1985]

You can take off 5 names you think who don´t belong to the HOF and you can surrogate them with 5 fighters who missed the list in your opinion incomprehensibly...

[fists of fury]

Good thread, but I don't even know who is in the HOF anymore Luigi. I'll come back to this after some research.

[Luigi1985]

Good thread, but I don't even know who is in the HOF anymore Luigi. I'll come back to this after some research.


Do it! :thumbsup

[Manassa]

Not sure who I'd put in, but the first ones I'd take out would be Nino Benvenuti and Duilio Loi.

[Luigi1985]

Not sure who I'd put in, but the first ones I'd take out would be Nino Benvenuti and Duilio Loi.


:lol:


I´m not Sweet_Science who counters now with all my curse words I have...

[Manassa]

:lol:


I´m not Sweet_Science who counters now with all my curse words I have...

;)

In all seriousness; take out Jess Willard, Barry McGuigan, Ingemar Johannsen, Ray Mancini and maybe Ken Norton. Add Willie Joyce and Holman Williams - the others I'll have to think about.

[Luigi1985]

;)

In all seriousness; take out Jess Willard, Barry McGuigan, Ingemar Johannsen, Ray Mancini and maybe Ken Norton. Add Willie Joyce and Holman Williams - the others I'll have to think about.


Very good choices, I agree with all...

[Sweet Science]

:lol:


I´m not Sweet_Science who counters now with all my curse words I have...

I only swear when I need to, I have never uttered any obscenities towards you.

The problem with the IBHOF is that it seems the popularity of a boxer counts more to voters than dominance, Ken Norton is a prime example of this.

[Luigi1985]

I only swear when I need to, I have never uttered any obscenities towards you.

The problem with the IBHOF is that it seems the popularity of a boxer seems to count more than dominance, Ken Norton is a prime example of this.


It was just a joke!, when 2 people (or like in your case with many others) have any disputes, it´s never only one who get´s the blame...


I agree here with your opinion, but look at Papp, he did nothing and is in the IBHOF...

[Sweet Science]

It was just a joke!, when 2 people (or like in your case with many others) have any disputes, it´s never only one who get´s the blame...


I agree here with your opinion, but look at Papp, he did nothing and is in the IBHOF...

Fair enough.

Inductees that I feel were undeserving off the top of my head are:

Max Baer
Terry Norris
Barry McGuigan
Ingemar Johansson
Edwin Rosario

[Jack Dempsey]

Jose Sulaiman would be first on my list to come out

[Sweet Science]

Terry Norris? Really? He´s arguably the best 154 lber ever. Could you explain why please? Max Baer i would also disagree, he was the 3rd best hw in the 30s beat many top contenders including the 2nd best hw of the era, he´s not the first choice for the HoF but i think he deserves to be in there.

Yes of course.

Terry Norris was an excellent boxer but he kept losing to guys he should have beaten. So he lacks consistency and dominance, that is precisely why he would just miss out on my vote.

Max Baer was one of the worst heavyweight champions of all time. He was upset by Jim Braddock in his first defence. Along the way he also dropped decisions to Loughran and Farr and was knocked out twice by Lou Nova. Thus he is not worthy of induction to the IBHOF. Though this does not surprise me because at the moment the IBHOF resembles a college bar (students union) rather than the elite exclusive club it should be.

he was the 3rd best hw in the 30s beat many top contenders

Oh you mean he beat Primo Carnera?! Who were the other many top contenders he beat?

[Sweet Science]

Max Schmeling, Primo Carnera, Tommy Farr, Ernie Schaaf, Johnny Risko.

His losses against McCarthy and Abbot were DQ and traditionally aren´t counting to much against a fighter. He was still too green to take on a seasoned veteran and atg like Tommy Loughran. His losses against Schaaf, Risko and Farr were avenged and the Nova losses were on the end of his career. Also the Davies loss shouldn´t be one because it was originally an exhibition. So, he has losses to Les Kennedy, when he was stil a little green, Paolino Uzcudun, a contender, Jim Braddock, Joe Louis, you can lose to that guy ;) . That is not too bad.

Being as you've summarised Baer's career and resume as 'not too bad'. I would have to say that your criteria for deserving IBHOF inductees differs somewhat from mine. However, on the bright side your criteria fits in much better with the current judges who think being pretty good is good enough.

In my opinion, the IBHOF shouldn't be about good boxers getting their due or even under-appreciated boxers being recognised. It should be about the truly great and elite boxers being enshrined. That way the IBHOF would be a lot more meaningful and presigious, the way any hall of fame should be.

[Sweet Science]

Well, you now i tend to say "not too bad" when i mean "great" or "good" just when is say "ok" when i´m very very happy about something. That´s just me.

:think

Hmm, so you think Max Baer was a Great fighter?

[Sweet Science]

He is my Top20 hw. And yes he was an atg hw. I don´t think he is an atg without any divisions, not p4p4. I hope you get what i mean.

Yes I get what you mean. I just don't see Max Baer as an ATG, or even as an ATG soley in relation to other heavyweights. Again, I think your criteria and mine are vastly different.

[Manassa]

I think Jess Willard's inclusion is by far the most criminal of the lot.

[Luigi1985]

I think Jess Willard's inclusion is by far the most criminal of the lot.


IMO Willard and Papp. What´s about Laslzo in your opinion?

[quintonjacksonfan]

Here is the complete list of Hall of Famers

Modern
Muhammad Ali
Sammy Angott
Fred Apostoli
Alexis Arguello
Henry Armstrong
Carmen Basilio
Wilfred Benitez
Nino Benvenuti
Jackie "Kid" Berg
Jimmy Bivins
Joe Brown
Ken Buchanan
Charley Burley
Miguel Canto
Michael Carbajal
Jimmy Carter
Marcel Cerdan
Antonio Cervantes
Bobby Chacon
Jeff Chandler
Ezzard Charles
Curtis Cokes
Billy Conn
Pipino Cuevas
Roberto Duran
Flash Elorde
Jeff Fenech
George Foreman
Bob Foster
Joe Frazier
Gene Fullmer
Khaosai Galaxy
Victor Galindez
Kid Gavilan
Joey Giardello
Wilfredo Gomez
Humberto Gonzalez
Billy Graham
Rocky Graziano
Emile Griffith
Marvin Hagler
"Fighting" Harada
Beau Jack
Lew Jenkins
Eder Jofre
Ingemar Johansson
Harold Johnson
Ismael Laguna
Jake LaMotta
Sugar Ray Leonard
Sonny Liston
Nicolino Locche
Duilio Loi
Ricardo Lopez
Joe Louis
Barry McGuigan
Mike McCallum
Rocky Marciano
Joey Maxim
Bob Montgomery
Carlos Monzon
Archie Moore
Jose Napoles
Ken Norton
Terry Norris
Azumah Nelson
Ruben Olivares
Bobo Olson
Carlos Ortiz
Manuel Ortiz
Carlos Palomino
Laszlo Papp
Willie Pastrano
Floyd Patterson
Eusebio Pedroza
Willie Pep
Pascual Perez
Aaron Pryor
Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Sugar Ramos
Luis Rodriguez
Sugar Ray Robinson
Edwin Rosario
Matthew Saad Muhammad
Sandy Saddler
Vicente Saldivar
Salvador Sanchez
Max Schmeling
Michael Spinks
Dick Tiger
Jose Torres
Randy Turpin
Jersey Joe Walcott
Pernell Whitaker
Ike Williams
Chalky Wright
Tony Zale
Daniel Zaragoza
Carlos Zarate
Fritzie Zivic

Old Timer
Lou Ambers
Baby Arizmendi
Abe Attell
Max Baer
Jim Barry
Benny Bass
Battling Battalino
Paul Berlenbach
James J. Braddock
Jack Britton
Lou Brouillard
Panama Al Brown
Tommy Burns
Tony Canzoneri
Georges Carpentier
Kid Chocolate
Joe Choynski
James J. Corbett
Young Corbett III
Johnny Coulon
Eugene Criqui
Les Darcey
Jack Delaney
"Nonpareil" Dempsey
Jack Dempsey
Jim Driscoll
Jack Dillon
George Dixon
Johnny Dundee
Sixto Escobar
Jackie Fields
Bob Fitzsimmons
Tiger Flowers
Joe Gans
Frankie Genaro
Mike Gibbons
Tommy Gibbons
George Godfrey
Harry Greb
Young Griffo
Harry Harris
Pete Herman
Peter Jackson
Joe Jeanette
James J. Jeffries
Jack Johnson
Louis "Kid" Kaplan
Stanley Ketchel
Dixie Kid
Johnny Kilbane
Fidel LaBarba
Sam Langford
Kid Lavigne
Benny Leonard
Battling Levinsky
John Henry Lewis
Ted "Kid" Lewis
Tommy Loughran
Benny Lynch
Joe Lynch
Sammy Mandell
Jack McAuliffe
Charles "Kid" McCoy
Packey McFarland
Terry McGovern
Jimmy McLarnin
Sam McVey
Freddie Miller
Charley Mitchell
Pedro Montanez
Owen Moran
Battling Nelson
Kid Norfolk
Phila. Jack O'Brien
Billy Papke
Billy Petrolle
Willie Ritchie
Maxie Rosenbloom
Barney Ross
Tommy Ryan
Jack Sharkey
Jimmy Slattery
Tom Sharkey
Freddie Steele
Young Stribling
Charles "Bud" Taylor
Lew Tendler
Marcel Thil
Gene Tunney
Pancho Villa
"Barbados" Joe Walcott
Mickey Walker
Freddie Welsh
Jimmy Wilde
Jess Willard
Kid Williams
Harry Wills
Ad Wolgast
Midget Wolgast
Teddy Yarosz

[Duodenum]

Fair enough.

Inductees that I feel were undeserving off the top of my head are:

Max Baer
Terry Norris
Barry McGuigan
Ingemar Johansson
Edwin RosarioNot having considered the issue that carefully, I like this list a great deal at first glance.

I think Baer was enshrined more for his potential, and the attention he brought to boxing, rather than his actual competitive achievements.

Terry Norris has a record stained with three disqualification losses, and had pretty much shot his bolt by the time he was 30. If he had 156 matches on his record, instead of just 56, I might be able to accept him as an ATG and HOFer, but he blew hot and cold just a little too much over too abbreviated a career in my estimation.

McGuigan's inclusion was more a matter of geopolitical considerations, I suspect. Sometimes, it seems to me that the IBHOF is overly sensitive to charges of jingoism, and overcompensates accordingly, by inducting boxers who may not measure up to an all-time competitive standard. Then, they turn around and pander to the fan base of the country in which they are located.

Now if Ingo belongs, simply by virtue of having been an undisputed HW king, then let's open the door to Leon Spinks and Marvin Hart.

Rosario met a tragically early demise, but should that alone qualify one for induction? If so, bring on Tyrone Everett. Sal Sanchez did enough by the time of the Azumah Nelson defense to belong. Sal unseated a dominant, colorful and exciting champion, and took out his dominant successor. He clearly belongs, as does Little Red. (And make no mistake about it, Danny Lopez is long overdue for induction. So far as I am concerned, he punched his ticket with his 15 round classic over Mike Ayala, just as Joe Frazier finalized his by demolishing a peak Bob Foster in 1970.)