When was the last time Bernard Hopkins was in a live fight?

[PrideOfWales]

There's much talk about Old Man Hopkins being a legend, a p4p great, the best of the middleweights yaddah yaddah yaddah... But upon closer scrutiny, let's examine the recent record of this character.

Last fight: Winky Wright (age 35)- an old man himself, way out of his depth at 170lbs, doesn't possess any real attacking threat.

Antonio Tarver (age 37) - Spent pretty much a year out of the game to film a Rocky movie and was never that good anyway. Got lucky by catching RJJ at the right time.

Jermain Taylor (twice) - Taylor became the undisputed MW champ by taking Hopkins crown. We all know Taylor has poor footwork, is ugly and a light puncher and probably has a china chin waiting to be exposed.. a poor loss for Hopkins.

Howard Eastman (aged 34) - Eastman was a past prime B level fighter.

Oscar De La Hoya (aged 31)- A proven failure when it comes to the bigger bouts, a fans favourite, DLH has never been blessed with great boxing ability however.

Robert Allen (aged 34) - Nowhere near a top level fighter.

William Joppy (aged 33), Morrade Hakker (aged 31), Carl Daniels (aged 32) - see description for Robert Allen.

So it seems that the last real challenge the Hopkins took on was Tito Trinidad in September 2001. Look at the ages of everyone he's faced since. The exception to the mid 30's lot is Jermain Taylor who he lost against twice.

Bernard Hopkins, ring legend?? To me, he's a fraud.

[McGrain]

Tends to beat what's put in front of him. It's worth noting that he was an underdog for the Wright fight, that was considered "live", although a lot of what you say about that contest is true.

He may be overated, and i'm quite fresh to that opinion.

[unclepaulie]

i like how you left out that he was the frst person to beat trinidad. you are such an idiot. oscar de la hoya never had good boxing skill? Taylor has poor footwork? i cant believe you can even begin to start talking that way about hopkins and have joe calzaghe in your avatar. moron.

[McGrain]

i like how you left out that he was the frst person to beat trinidad.

Read the title of the thread.

[PrideOfWales]

i like how you left out that he was the frst person to beat trinidad. you are such an idiot. oscar de la hoya never had good boxing skill? Taylor has poor footwork? i cant believe you can even begin to start talking that way about hopkins and have joe calzaghe in your avatar. moron.

Read the whole thing before you make yourself look like a complete retard... Retard.

[McGrain]

Read the whole thing before you make yourself look like a complete retard... Retard.

Still, it is a bold claim.

What of the fact that Wright was a favourite going into their match and that A LOT of people I know and on the boards were picking Winky? I mean , what is your definition of "live"? Hopkins is a notorios spoiler, no-one he beats is going to come away looking like Sugar Ray.

[David UK]

Hopkins is horrendously over rated by virtue of his wins on the Seniors Tour and also that he is American. Remember he ducked out of a fight with Calzaghe once it had been verbally agreed.

[unclepaulie]

Read the whole thing before you make yourself look like a complete retard... Retard.
Wow. You say that Winky didnt pose any threat, even though he was the favorite, you claim that Tarver landed one lucky punch against RJJ, even though he lost a close decision in ther first fight and won UD in thier last fight, De La Hoya had little boxing skill, and Taylor has poor footwork, and you call someone else a retard? You are just taking away from the accomplishments of Hopkins opponents to try and suit your point. I dont have to try and make you look like a retard, you are already doing a fine enough job of it yourself with your ridiculous and flat out wrong analysis.

[KayEpps]

There's much talk about Old Man Hopkins being a legend, a p4p great, the best of the middleweights yaddah yaddah yaddah... But upon closer scrutiny, let's examine the recent record of this character.

Last fight: Winky Wright (age 35)- an old man himself, way out of his depth at 170lbs, doesn't possess any real attacking threat.

Antonio Tarver (age 37) - Spent pretty much a year out of the game to film a Rocky movie and was never that good anyway. Got lucky by catching RJJ at the right time.

Jermain Taylor (twice) - Taylor became the undisputed MW champ by taking Hopkins crown. We all know Taylor has poor footwork, is ugly and a light puncher and probably has a china chin waiting to be exposed.. a poor loss for Hopkins.

Howard Eastman (aged 34) - Eastman was a past prime B level fighter.

Oscar De La Hoya (aged 31)- A proven failure when it comes to the bigger bouts, a fans favourite, DLH has never been blessed with great boxing ability however.

Robert Allen (aged 34) - Nowhere near a top level fighter.

William Joppy (aged 33), Morrade Hakker (aged 31), Carl Daniels (aged 32) - see description for Robert Allen.

So it seems that the last real challenge the Hopkins took on was Tito Trinidad in September 2001. Look at the ages of everyone he's faced since. The exception to the mid 30's lot is Jermain Taylor who he lost against twice.

Bernard Hopkins, ring legend?? To me, he's a fraud.

You just overlooked the rest of his career? Remember the 20 defenses that he made.

Just like Roy was in the LHW Division - he beat everyone that was put in front of him. So when there were no more big names that wanted to fight him - people start saying that you're fighting nobodies.

What would you be saying if he had lost to any of those guys - other than Taylor?

His job is/was to win fights - and that's what he did.

B-Hop is a Ring Legend - and he did it his way - almost to the very end. At least give the man credit for his accomplishments.

[unclepaulie]

Hopkins is horrendously over rated by virtue of his wins on the Seniors Tour and also that he is American. Remember he ducked out of a fight with Calzaghe once it had been verbally agreed.
When was this? He called out Calzaghe on national television
after his last fight.

[brooklyn1550]

Fraud? Great wording....a guy who has beaten 3 future hall of famers, held all 4 middleweight belts, defeated 10+ world champion, held the middleweight title for 10 years, held the RING light heavyweight title, and made 21 total defenses is a fraud.

Hopkins IS a ring legend...deal with it

[halfamazin1]

That's funny, cause when he didn't fight these guys everyone was talking about how he needed to fight Eastman, they became overrated and "past their prime" once he dusted them. He was the middleweight champ and he fought them all as they came...he never waited to fight anyone, he fought all the top contenders while they were top contenders...if he made them look past their prime he must be doing something good.

[Amsterdam]

I'm telling you all, Joe Calzaghe fans are all insane, including me.:yep

Bad part is that I half agree with this, Hopkins' resume in terms of quality is not that impressive, however, Hopkins IS an ATG, he WAS highly avoided at his best and the reason his resume is 'good', is because he DOMINATED the vast majority of his competition.

Anyone who flat out dominates for years over solid to good comp and makes that many title defenses is a great fighter, not only this, but his longevity is impressive.

Not a top 20 IMO, but a top 40 of all time. Hopkins' career has been a pleasure to watch, but he absolutely CAN be overrated.

However, to say he is a 'fraud' is just unspeakable. Taylor is a 'fraud', Hopkins was and is a bad man and a great champion.

[Amsterdam]

The problem is revisionism. People tend to look different at fighters before and after a fight. To judge a worthy challenger he has to be judged at how he was looked at before the fight.

I kind of like that teuton chick in your avatar.:yep

[Ambition_Def]

Yea you really can't overlook longevity.

People will always harp on name quality opponents and that will never change. However common sense tells you that a man cannot make 20 title defenses without running into some real challenges. It just isn't possible in any era. Titles have changed hands on odds that were longshots on guys who were labeled easy HoF/great.

[halfamazin1]

The problem is revisionism. People tend to look different at fighters before and after a fight. To judge a worthy challenger he has to be judged at how he was looked at before the fight.

EXACTLY:good

[madpup]

Maybe he should move down in weight and face Bika and Manfredo, that will cement his legacy.

[halfamazin1]

I'm telling you all, Joe Calzaghe fans are all insane, including me.:yep

Bad part is that I half agree with this, Hopkins' resume in terms of quality is not that impressive, however, Hopkins IS an ATG, he WAS highly avoided at his best and the reason his resume is 'good', is because he DOMINATED the vast majority of his competition.

Anyone who flat out dominates for years over solid to good comp and makes that many title defenses is a great fighter, not only this, but his longevity is impressive.

Not a top 20 IMO, but a top 40 of all time. Hopkins' career has been a pleasure to watch, but he absolutely CAN be overrated.

However, to say he is a 'fraud' is just unspeakable. Taylor is a 'fraud', Hopkins was and is a bad man and a great champion.

How can he be overrated...he hasn't come close to losing (convincingly) in the last 14 years. You have never seen a 43 year old man with his will, stamina, etc. He still can beat every single person on the p4p list...and easily...NO ONE wants to fight this 43 year old man...

[Carlos Primera]

trinidad was a 3-1 favorite if memory serves me right, and he was expected to have go through hopkins enroute to a rjj mega fight. tarver was a favorite as well, in virtue of him being more accustomed to 175, crushing wins over rjj and a good couple of fights against johnson (weight drained excuses came out after the fight). wright was a favorite as well and was firmly wedged in the top 5 in some people's p4p rankings. even before the tito fight in those 20 defenses he faced solid competition. had a crushing performance against then undefeated glenn johnson, who would later become linear champ at 175. wins over solid fighters like hard punching antwun echols, william joppy (who some rated above hopkins in the 90's), one of the better european MW's in eastman, good win over future hof'er oscar, good win against ok guys like holmes, jackson, lipsey etc... thats a solid resume, and hopkins certainly is no fraud. despite being an underdog i'd still love to see a fight between him and calzaghe next year, as he usually puts on a great performance against a betting favorite.

[Amsterdam]

Oh, i think i remember some posts of you after his win over Wright where you called him a Top15 of all-time. Talking about overrating :P

I may or may not have been drunk on that occassion. Or I could have meant top 15 'H2H', which I'd agree with that 100%.

By the way, that doesn't look like Johanssen, looks like some girl from Bavaria from that angle. Maybe I'm just exhausted...

[Amsterdam]

Archie Moore!

And you are overrating him a bit. I´m a huge fan of B-Hop but i think he would lose to Kessler and Dawson - but would beat Calzaghe.

:lol:

He has a better chance against Dawson than Calzaghe. Styles and condition mate, you need to learn the difference. A guy who throws that many shots while moving in and out and not giving Hopkins any oppurtunity to work is going to win 10/10 times.

Kessler has that long jab consistently, Hopkins eats Kessler's more so than Taylor and is controlled off the end of it. Kessler stops the old man.

Dawson however gives Hopkins the most oppurtunity, even though I feel Dawson would stop him also, but only because Dawson can be 'bullied'. Hopkins can pull a dirty/rough fight and give himself a chance that he wouldn't have against Calzaghe or Kessler.

You can't 'out dirty' Calzaghe, in terms of clinching and then exploding out of a clinch, he's the best around.

[halfamazin1]

I disagree and you are proving my point...He is damn 43 years old, everyone here who is saying that he fought people past their prime are proving their arguments by stating he would lose to people fighting him while he's out of his prime...where were all these guys 2-3 years ago...they would stand no chance, and I still give b-hop a 50/50 chance on all of them. Everyone wants to call him out now...he'll be damn 50 years old in 6.5 years...it's ridiculous...what else can the guy do to prove to people...he's already blasted glenn johnson, Tito, tarver and winky who were all considered the best in and around his weight class (with the exception of GJ when they fought).

[halfamazin1]

Berlin and Heidelburg are pretty nice chicks too.

[China_hand_Joe]

Hopkins is both a fraud and a legend.

Hopkins most impressive performance was perhaps his loss to Roy Jones, in which Hopkins proved himself to be amongst the top 50 ever.

[Amsterdam]

I disagree and you are proving my point...He is damn 43 years old, everyone here who is saying that he fought people past their prime are proving their arguments by stating he would lose to people fighting him while he's out of his prime...where were all these guys 2-3 years ago...they would stand no chance, and I still give b-hop a 50/50 chance on all of them. Everyone wants to call him out now...he'll be damn 50 years old in 6.5 years...it's ridiculous...what else can the guy do to prove to people...he's already blasted glenn johnson, Tito, tarver and winky who were all considered the best in and around his weight class (with the exception of GJ when they fought).

If you lose twice to Taylor, even if it's controversial, it was still contested. Calzaghe, Kessler and Dawson are two steps above Jermain Taylor, just do the math.

[Amsterdam]

You know styles is the thing while i favour Hopkins. I think he would rough Calzaghe up, be dirty and slow him down like he did Wright. His great lead right would also pose problems for Joe. That´s how i would see the fight going down. Calzaghe coming out strong winninf the first three rounds, Hopkins getting rougher and dirtier every round, frustrating Calzaghe and winning a tight decision 7-5. I could also see Calzaghe dominating the fight because Hopkins has no answer for his speed by i doubt it.

A prime Hopkins and your prediction has merit, but he would be dead tired, like he was against Wright before a second wind(Wright is nothing at 170) and he could not fire off his right hand enough.

Even a peak Hopkins gets outworked, the in and out movement from Calzaghe is really a stylistic nightmare for Hopkins, as is the odd angle shots and speed.

Calzaghe can eat punches, Hopkins does not have overbearing power, Calzaghe is willing to eat a good lead right to dish out his workrate.

The reason Jones' lead right does damage is because Jones at 168 was a true KO puncher, therefore he stops Calzaghe dead in his tracks at times for his tactical advantage when timing the lead right, Hopkins' is not as snappy, nor as powerful.

[China_hand_Joe]

A 43 year old can never truly prove himself, if he simply isn't a good as he once was.

He can and will prove he is faded though, as soon as he comes up against a Calzaghe or Dawson.

[Amsterdam]

A 43 year old can never truly prove himself, if he simply isn't a good as he once was.

He can and will prove he is faded though, as soon as he comes up against a Calzaghe or Dawson.

Or any other young LHW that is competently skilled. Let's take Erdei for example, he'd shut Hopkins out.

[Amsterdam]

Erdei isn´t young himself. He is 34 and slowed doen himself quite a bit. Still a very good and underrated fighter. He has a good shot.

34 and a natural LHW with a good jab and good skills, I'd take Erdei.

Hopkins really showed his age against Wright, as did Wright for that matter, people don't get that I guess.

Point is -

Calzaghe, Kessler, Erdei, Dawson and the lot are all a step up in class from Jermain Taylor, who defeated Hopkins twice on paper in contested bouts.

[Amsterdam]

Yes, they did also i blame Wright´s performance also on the weight. I really want Hopkins to retire.

People forget Wright's bouts with Soliman and Quartey. Now don't get me wrong, he beat Quartey wide on the scores, but Quartey was competitive in a sense that he gave Wright a good scrap and Quartey is a totally shot WW-LMW. Quartey was also beating Wright to the jab early on.

Now let's take Dawson's, Calzaghe's and Kessler's jab into the equation, which is superior to the smaller Quartey's due to speed and size.

Wright was chosen for a reason against Hops. Wright thought he could win due to age, Hopkins knew Wright's limitations at the weight.

And think about it also, Winky's always been a favourite of mine, a guy who earned his spot, but people forget about the Vargas competitive bout, the Harry Simon competitive bout and the two competitive Mosely fights, none of these guys are on the level of 'elite' MW-SMW's in that regard.

Wright is a great fighter, no doubt, but he's a LMW, who deserved P4P regard, but he's no LHW at all and the Hopkins-Wright fight was contested because Hopkins can't fire off like he could in his prime.

Hopkins is 42 mate, it's amazing what he can do, but he can only do the maximum of what a 42 year old can do and that doesn't include defeating SMW-LHW's who are either 'fresh' or in their prime, IMO.

[PrideOfWales]

OK I see your points. I was a little strong calling Bernard Hopkins a fraud but if Joe Calzaghe gets picked up for fighting "bums" when he's matching himself against the likes of Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler who are mid to late 20's and should be in their fighting prime, why can I not make the point that everyone Bernard Hopkins has beaten in the last 6 years has been well over 30??

I appreciate that was a long sentance, poor English from me. But I never opened this debate up to ridicule Joe Calzaghe's record. I made no mention of him. Let's just discuss how old Bernard Hopkins' opponents have been without having a swipe at Joe Calzaghe.

[Motor City Sam]

Fraud? Great wording....a guy who has beaten 3 future hall of famers, held all 4 middleweight belts, defeated 10+ world champion, held the middleweight title for 10 years, held the RING light heavyweight title, and made 21 total defenses is a fraud.

Hopkins IS a ring legend...deal with it

Well said, Brooklyn. Sometimes I think a lot of posters on this site aren't fans of boxing as much as they are haters of certain boxers.

[brooklyn1550]

Hopkins wouldn't get stopped by anybody from 160-175 right now, but I do think there are some guys who can decision him. Calzaghe, Kessler, and Dawson are among those.