hagler vs ray robinson at SMW [Archive]

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lefthook89

10-19-2009, 11:06 PM

two of whom i consider the two best MW's that ever lived in a 15 round fight under WBC rules, who would win in this absolute war??

djanders

10-19-2009, 11:20 PM

As much as I like Hagler, I'm going with Sugar Ray in this one...in 15 hard fought rounds, Robinson gets the decision...in my opinion.

KOTF

10-19-2009, 11:26 PM

What made you decide to match them up at 168 lbs?

lefthook89

10-19-2009, 11:28 PM

What made you decide to match them up at 168 lbs?

because they were both ripped as shit, hagler and SRR could've most definitely fought at 168. they were both huge MW's

rm36

10-19-2009, 11:50 PM

Hagler would have given him a very tough fight, but I think Robinson would have won on points.

laxpdx

10-20-2009, 01:04 AM

I think if Hagler was really focused like he was in so many of his MW title bouts, I think he could wear out Rob late in the fight. I don't rule out a possible points win for Ray, he was that good, but Hagler is the ultimate MW in my book.

Sweet Pea

10-20-2009, 06:02 AM

because they were both ripped as shit, hagler and SRR could've most definitely fought at 168. they were both huge MW'sHagler was about as natural a MW as there ever was. Robinson was a natural WW. Fail.

Thread Stealer

10-20-2009, 06:34 AM

Hagler regularly made 160 with room to spare, often a pound or two for title defenses, even more than 2 lbs on a couple occassions, usually only a few hours before the fight. Robinson, who started at LW and peaked at WW, was still making 160 fourteen years after first winning the MW title. No reason for an 168 lb. fight, they'd probably way well below 168 anyway.

I can see another scenario where Robinson drops the first bout and wins the rematch (against another terrific rematch fighter in Hagler).

frankenfrank

10-20-2009, 08:08 AM

i doubt how good will SRR deal with the pressure hagler puts on him , SRR lost to lesser fighters than hagler , hagler lost to lesser than SRR , hagler couldn't stop duran and their fight was close , SRR had trouble stopping lamotta most of the time , and some others lesser than hagler as well + both were proven tough = so it will last the distance , hagler a little bit more accustomed to the weight , could have really gone either way by decision , but i voted hagler , maybe i am wrong here.

Why SMW and not MW ?

frankenfrank

10-20-2009, 08:09 AM

because they were both ripped as shit, hagler and SRR could've most definitely fought at 168. they were both huge MW's
neither was a huge MW - hagler was a midget , and SRR came from WW.
hagler would have been a small SMW had he ever fought there.

McGrain

10-20-2009, 08:10 AM

because they were both ripped as shit, hagler and SRR could've most definitely fought at 168. they were both huge MW's

:huh

Robinson only made 158lbs for his fight at LHW...Hagler often weighed in under the MW limit.

No point in making this one at 168 at all.

jaffay

10-20-2009, 08:54 AM

Hagler on points. He could be to big and to strong for SRR.

lefthook89

10-20-2009, 09:14 AM

teeto

10-20-2009, 09:20 AM

I made a thread about this a while ago, didn't really conclude with a winner though.

Manassa

10-20-2009, 09:26 AM

frankenfrank

10-20-2009, 10:15 AM

WOW!! people on ESB get irritated over the dumbest things! some of you should consider getting out a little more, honestly! i was just trying to shake things up a bit. okay if it makes you happy ill change it to MW. holy shit:-(
i think what you mean is called OCPD .

and btw , i think that if you really wanted them both performance , 163 could have been the optimal catchweight. very comfortable for hagler

lefthook89

10-20-2009, 10:22 AM

i think what you mean is called OCPD .

and btw , i think that if you really wanted them both performance , 163 could have been the optimal catchweight. very comfortable for hagler

yea OCPD would explain some of these posters:lol:

but 163 would be the perfect weight for both of them

fists of fury

10-20-2009, 10:31 AM

McGrain

10-20-2009, 11:14 AM

Yeah, facts and stuff.

turpinr

10-20-2009, 11:33 AM

even at middle robinson was only 150lb.hagler would take a decision in this fight.

Stevie G

10-20-2009, 11:39 AM

It depends where each man is in their respective timeframes. If we're saying the peak Hagler circa 1980-83 against the Robinson up to and including,the two Randy Turpin fights,I would go with Sugar Ray by close decision. Any later version of Robinson I would give it to Marvelous Marvin.

Bill Butcher

10-20-2009, 03:54 PM

two of whom i consider the two best MW's that ever lived in a 15 round fight under WBC rules, who would win in this absolute war??

I`ll take it that you accidently typed SMW as opposed to MWT in your thread title.

You have to take each guy at their middleweight best & I think the Robinson that TKO`d Lamotta in 1951 beats any MWT that was ever filmed in the ring, that was simply a complete & excellent fighting machine, that version of Robinson.

Robinson`s foot speed & movement in general would cause Marvin problems, Ray could also hold his own when forced to fight as he was a much better & faster combination puncher & hit harder than Marvin with either hand.... I see him outscoring Hagler from the outside for the majority (1st two thirds) of the fight tho not having it all his own way & both guys having a give & take war in the last 3rd as both tire & Marv gets urgent due to feeling (correctly) that he`s behind.

Hagler has virtually 0 shot at stopping Robinson as he was more an accumalation puncher & Ray was as durable as they come anyway, I give Robinson a reasonable chance of stopping Hagler, he hit like a horse & hit very often in his prime so I wouldnt be shocked to see Marv take the 10 count but my money says close but clear 15 rd decision in Sugar Ray Robinson`s favour.

:good

Bill Butcher

10-20-2009, 04:06 PM

Hagler on points. He could be to big and to strong for SRR.

Robinson was naturally bigger than his namesake Leonard tho, he was taller, had a longer reach, had comparable speed & hit harder with both hands... I understand this fight vs SRR will be a prime Hagler but if a past prime Leonard can beat a past prime Hagler without being bulled by the size, its a safe bet that a prime Hagler wont be able to bull a prime Robinson, especially as the bull Jake Lamotta couldnt.

Ps. Im not slagging your choice of `Hagler beats SRR` because its 2 of the best ever MWTs here afterall but I dont see the size as being the reason Ray loses, thats all.

:good

jaffay

10-20-2009, 04:31 PM

Robinson was naturally bigger than his namesake Leonard tho, he was taller, had a longer reach, had comparable speed & hit harder with both hands... I understand this fight vs SRR will be a prime Hagler but if a past prime Leonard can beat a past prime Hagler without being bulled by the size, its a safe bet that a prime Hagler wont be able to bull a prime Robinson, especially as the bull Jake Lamotta couldnt.

Ps. Im not slagging your choice of `Hagler beats SRR` because its 2 of the best ever MWTs here afterall but I dont see the size as being the reason Ray loses, thats all.

:good

I think that how past prime Hagler looked like isn't that meaningful when we are matching him and SRR in their primes. Can we compare how much did Hagler and Leonard lost from their prime abilities respectibly? Tough call.

SRR struggled with strong and stocky LaMotta and I think that Hagler was better and stronger than him.

Bill Butcher

10-20-2009, 05:04 PM

I think that how past prime Hagler looked like isn't that meaningful when we are matching him and SRR in their primes. Can we compare how much did Hagler and Leonard lost from their prime abilities respectibly? Tough call.

SRR struggled with strong and stocky LaMotta and I think that Hagler was better and stronger than him.

Better ? Yes.
Stronger ? Debateable, Id say no probably, JLM started at LHWT & often struggled making 160, he wasnt the tallest but was incredibly broad & strong, hence the monicker `Bronx Bull`

:good

stefanoitch

10-21-2009, 09:36 AM

I dont think any of these guys were that big

frankenfrank

10-21-2009, 02:01 PM

i think that one of the reasons for hagler's retirement was actually the lack of SMW division and his understandable reluctance to become a lhw.