Does Arthur Abraham remind any one else of a smaller version of jim jeffries?

[cotto20]

Both have the same type of bulid, both have cast iron chin and wills and both have great stamina and are as hard as nails!

[red cobra]

I saw a clip of the knockout over Taylor last Sunday..the first time I've ever seen Arthur, and I must say his style is rather unusual...like he arrive in this day and age from a time machine...very little speed or flash, agility or whatever you may call it, but he's extrremely strong, and that final shot..that right hand, was like a bomb..a very strongly built, slow, wrestlerlike guy..he fights like he has some inside knowledge of the script...that he's going to win eventually. I guess the comparison to Jeffries is a good one..he seems like a smaller version of Jeff...a small grizzly bear in a way. I was impressed by his sheer strength and power, and I think he could beat either Pavlik or Froch, but Kessler may be another story, and Calzaghe would have been way too much for him.

[McGrain]

I think Abraham's speed is underated. He has fast hands. And he puts punches together very quickly. And he can put them together quickly and properly whilst moving forwards, which is important.

He is strong, he is technically underated, he seems to be improving as his career advances, he has all these things in common with Jeffries.

[Rock0052]

I think Abraham's speed is underated. He has fast hands. And he puts punches together very quickly. And he can put them together quickly and properly whilst moving forwards, which is important.

He is strong, he is technically underated, he seems to be improving as his career advances, he has all these things in common with Jeffries.

He's making alot of progress in those areas- he may not move around the ring much, but he's got excellent short area quickness as far as throwing punches and reflexes are concerned. He's also got better flexibility and upper body movment than one would expect out of a musclebound-looking fighter. I think Abraham's a great example of a fighter who fights in a style that fits his physical talents while still working to improve and becoming a smarter fighter, which is somewhat rare to find in a big puncher. All too often, they fall in love with the punch and just ride that as far as it'll take them.

[IntentionalButt]

I think Abraham's speed is underated. He has fast hands. And he puts punches together very quickly. And he can put them together quickly and properly whilst moving forwards, which is important.

He is strong, he is technically underated, he seems to be improving as his career advances, he has all these things in common with Jeffries.

I agree with this. If anything, it's his power that is overrated in that people can't see past it. He has other redeeming qualities that compliment it, and while he's not a complete fighter in my view he's certainly not one-dimensional either.

[McGrain]

I agree with this. If anything, it's his power that is overrated in that people can't see past it.

Right.

[TheGreatA]

Of the little I've seen of Jeffries, I don't see too many similarities between him and Abraham aside from both being strong and durable.

Jeffries used upperbody movement, seemed to have a very good countering uppercut and fought from a close distance or the clinch.

Abraham uses a high guard, some head movement here and there, and he is not really an infighter despite being only 5'9. People might overlook Abraham's other skills but in truth he would not be nearly as good as he is without the raw punching power he has. He would be a Sebastian Sylvester, or a lesser version of Sven Ottke.

[TheGreatA]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[cotto20]

Of the little I've seen of Jeffries, I don't see too many similarities between him and Abraham aside from both being strong and durable.

Jeffries used upperbody movement, seemed to have a very good countering uppercut and fought from a close distance or the clinch.

Abraham uses a high guard, some head movement here and there, and he is not really an infighter despite being only 5'9. People might overlook Abraham's other skills but in truth he would not be nearly as good as he is without the raw punching power he has. He would be a Sebastian Sylvester, or a lesser version of Sven Ottke.

There are similarities. Both rely on there courage and toughness. Both are tremendous punchers, both have anvil chins, and both like to wear you down, and get you late.

There are lots between them. And I have seen every Jeffries fights, so I dont needs you putting up videos for attention. but whats new:roll:

[Mendoza]

Both have the same type of bulid, both have cast iron chin and wills and both have great stamina and are as hard as nails!

While I would not compare the two in boxing style, I would compare them a bit in tactics.

Neither guy for the most part is in there to end it early. Abraham seems to have great patience. Jeffries also had great patience. Chalk them up as opportunistic sluggers who prefer to up the ante in the mid to later rounds thanks to excellent durability and punching power.

I don't think Abraham is one of the ring unbreakable fighters. He was hurt a bit in the first Maranda fight correct?

Abraham is a natural middle. I think he'll take the super six crown. We'll see.

[rekcutnevets]

I haven't watched a lot of Abraham. I don't really see anything about him that reminds me of Jeffries style wise. Maybe you're saying he resembles him.

Some of you have stated his power is overrated, but I don't know what context that is coming from. If people are saying he is the hardest puncher ever, that's one thing; but he is one of the hardest current punchers anywhere near middleweight. He kind of reminds me of a middleweight Kostya Tyzsu, equal to minus, in this regard.

I wouldn't call him a speedster, but I have never thought of him as slow. I'd say he is a little faster, and harder hitting, than Kelly Pavlik. When Pavlik beat Taylor, I thought he became the best middeweight in the world. I had never watched a lot on Abraham at that time. Then I saw Abraham's rematch with Miranda. I was impressed by his "overrated" power in that fight. This fight was at 168, and Pavlik still deserved to be #1 at 160; but this fight made me wonder about head to head.

When Pavlik faced Gary Lockett, I began to question his chances against Abraham. Lockett in no way threatened Pavlik, but he was connecting ineffectual punches while fighting in a manner similar to what Abraham may attempt. The thing is, if Abraham were landing those shots, this could have been a very different looking fight.

[McGrain]

Abraham is a natural middle.


Negative.

Guy walked around at 180...the diet he was on to make 160 was sinister. This move up was inevitable and would have happened earlier if they weren't waiting for the Pavlik fight. I think one of the reasons he looked so excellent against Taylor was the cuffs being off a little as far as weight went.

[Bummy Davis]

They share patience and both are very fit men. Abraham proved his heart vs Miranda fighting 12 rds with a broken jaw but in Miranda 2 and the Taylor fight I seen Abe perserve himself behind a solid defence and lash out with a well timed explosive punch..Have not seen much of Jeff but if he punch like that at heavy...he may be Underated greatly but not sure there is evidence of that.

[mcvey]

There are similarities. Both rely on there courage and toughness. Both are tremendous punchers, both have anvil chins, and both like to wear you down, and get you late.

There are lots between them. And I have seen every Jeffries fights, so I dont needs you putting up videos for attention. but whats new:roll:
I would not call Jeffries a tremendous puncher based on his record .I think Abraham hits harder p4p.

[klompton]

their styles are nothing alike.

[cotto20]

I would not call Jeffries a tremendous puncher based on his record .I think Abraham hits harder p4p.

I dont know about that! Jim was a huge puncher!

[TheGreatA]

Negative.

Guy walked around at 180...the diet he was on to make 160 was sinister. This move up was inevitable and would have happened earlier if they weren't waiting for the Pavlik fight. I think one of the reasons he looked so excellent against Taylor was the cuffs being off a little as far as weight went.

I read about his "diet" and it consisted of ice cream and other rather questionable foods that should not exactly help making the weight.

He is a bit like LaMotta in that regard I'd say, not the tallest middleweight but very strong, solid and probably better off at 168.

[turpinr]

i've never seen abraham fight.does he fight against boxers 40lb lighter

[mcvey]

I dont know about that! Jim was a huge puncher!
Based on what?

[he grant]

I don't see him as a huge puncher ... Th emuch lighter Fitz was able to bounce Sharkey like a ball while Jeffries could not ... a good puncher, just not huge ..

[Flea Man]

Abraham has a nice tight guard which he brings up WHEN his opponents throw. When not under pressure he drops his hands low and/or looks to get off his fast punches.

A few things I LOVE about Abraham:

He can take a punch (Miranda 1)

He can take you out with a wide swing (miranda 2) or a short punch (Ghevor)

He has power in both hands.

But what I really like about him is the way he deliberately swings wildly in order to lead an opponent onto a short punch with the opposite hand he is swinging with. He did it against Taylor again at the weekend-Winged in a left hook just to move Taylor across slightly and make his right hand land perfectly.

God knows whether he's similar to Jeffries. Haven't got time to analyse that footage at the moment.

[ChrisPontius]

He surely hits harder than Jeffries, in a pound for pound sense. He defence seems to be better, but he is rather inactive and fights in spurts. Their durability does appear to be similar.



Ironically, given that Abraham weighs around 175-180lbs on fight night, they would've probably squared off as heavyweights if AA lived in the late 1800's.

[McGrain]

Their durability does appear to be similar.

I agree with most of what you say, but this is a serious shout given the beatings that Jeffries shipped.

It's not like he fought anyone so tough that they fed a bear gingersnaps from their own mouth.

[natonic]

Don't know about this comparison but I'm becoming increasingly impressed with Abraham. I think he's tightened up technically to go along with his physical power and tenacity.

[he grant]

He fights like Curley from "Hard Times".

[lefthook31]

Abraham has caught up to all his opponents. Lets see if he can do it against a younger slickster that can go 12 rounds easy. I think he would still be trying to catch up at the final bell. Lets see what happens in the next few fights, although I think he will KO Dirrell, hes not ready for AA.

[Shake]

I think Kessler wins a fairly easy decision.

Actually, I'll go on record saying he has more trouble with Dirrell than he does with Abraham.

[cotto20]

I think Kessler wins a fairly easy decision.

Actually, I'll go on record saying he has more trouble with Dirrell than he does with Abraham.
for me kessler is very over rated! arthur beats him and so does ward

[GPater11093]

I haven't watched a lot of Abraham. I don't really see anything about him that reminds me of Jeffries style wise. Maybe you're saying he resembles him.

Some of you have stated his power is overrated, but I don't know what context that is coming from. If people are saying he is the hardest puncher ever, that's one thing; but he is one of the hardest current punchers anywhere near middleweight. He kind of reminds me of a middleweight Kostya Tyzsu, equal to minus, in this regard.

I wouldn't call him a speedster, but I have never thought of him as slow. I'd say he is a little faster, and harder hitting, than Kelly Pavlik. When Pavlik beat Taylor, I thought he became the best middeweight in the world. I had never watched a lot on Abraham at that time. Then I saw Abraham's rematch with Miranda. I was impressed by his "overrated" power in that fight. This fight was at 168, and Pavlik still deserved to be #1 at 160; but this fight made me wonder about head to head.

When Pavlik faced Gary Lockett, I began to question his chances against Abraham. Lockett in no way threatened Pavlik, but he was connecting ineffectual punches while fighting in a manner similar to what Abraham may attempt. The thing is, if Abraham were landing those shots, this could have been a very different looking fight.

and youve seen alot of Jeffries

Abraham is more Winky Wright than Jeffries. I hink hes overrated he either punches or defends he cant do both or change between the 2 seamlessly its like he needs to flick a switch.

But he does have huge power but he makes fights tough for himself dosent he?

[cotto20]

and youve seen alot of Jeffries

Abraham is more Winky Wright than Jeffries. I hink hes overrated he either punches or defends he cant do both or change between the 2 seamlessly its like he needs to flick a switch.

But he does have huge power but he makes fights tough for himself dosent he?
OVER RATED! are you for real? and he is nothing like wright

[GPater11093]

OVER RATED! are you for real? and he is nothing like wright

i wasnt saying he was like Wright i was syaing he was more like Wright than Jeffries in that he was very vaguely similar. i.e the stance with the gloves up.

Overrated, why isnt he?

Peoples been tipping him for the tournament after KOing Taylor who has been beat in 5 of his last 6 (but he is still a good fighter.) Taylors jab was causing him problems. You think he beats Kessler, i dont see it Kessler is durable and a solid boxer with excellant staight punches i think he causes AA hell.

[cotto20]

i wasnt saying he was like Wright i was syaing he was more like Wright than Jeffries in that he was very vaguely similar. i.e the stance with the gloves up.

Overrated, why isnt he?

Peoples been tipping him for the tournament after KOing Taylor who has been beat in 5 of his last 6 (but he is still a good fighter.) Taylors jab was causing him problems. You think he beats Kessler, i dont see it Kessler is durable and a solid boxer with excellant staight punches i think he causes AA hell.
lets not forget the ten title defence's he made at middleweight, beating the unbeaten miranda with a broken jaw, beating howard eastman winnining the title after only 14 fights yes thats over rated! then stops miranda in 2 at supermiddleweight. And him and winky are nothing a like your the only person i have ever heard say that

[GPater11093]

lets not forget the ten title defence's he made at middleweight, beating the unbeaten miranda with a broken jaw, beating howard eastman winnining the title after only 14 fights yes thats over rated! then stops miranda in 2 at supermiddleweight. And him and winky are nothing a like your the only person i have ever heard say that


they are not alike i was using it to say they are not similar to Jeffries

ok fair enough they are good achievements but not great. The 10 title defences were mostly padded with the likes of Oral etc.. although a few good wins

yeh the eastman win was good

so was both Miranda wins (however my mate who seen the 1st one thinks Miranda won it, i aint seen it so cant comment but i saw the rematch)

[cotto20]

they are not alike i was using it to say they are not similar to Jeffries

ok fair enough they are good achievements but not great. The 10 title defences were mostly padded with the likes of Oral etc.. although a few good wins

yeh the eastman win was good

so was both Miranda wins (however my mate who seen the 1st one thinks Miranda won it, i aint seen it so cant comment but i saw the rematch)
does your mate were glasses? cos miranda did not win! and am a fan of both fighters. the reason i and some other posters think artur and jefferies are la like is both have cast iron chins, both great stamina both can punch, both can take incredbile amount of punishmene are both have simliar bulids! they are both built like silver back gorila's, also both fighters like to wrear you down. Come on mate you say your a boxer so you more than any one should no how hard the boxing game is! arthur is not over rated if anything are american friends underrate him! when was the last time you saw a eastern european in the rings pound for pound list??

[GPater11093]

does your mate were glasses? cos miranda did not win! and am a fan of both fighters. the reason i and some other posters think artur and jefferies are la like is both have cast iron chins, both great stamina both can punch, both can take incredbile amount of punishmene are both have simliar bulids! they are both built like silver back gorila's, also both fighters like to wrear you down. Come on mate you say your a boxer so you more than any one should no how hard the boxing game is! arthur is not over rated if anything are american friends underrate him! when was the last time you saw a eastern european in the rings pound for pound list??

my mate dont wear glasses no :lol:

yes but thats like saying Kid Gavilan and Jake Lamotta are similar great chins, good stamina, not the biggest hitters

they have similar attributes i agree with that but they arnt similar in anything else IMO. Also i dont think Abraham wears people down int he conventional sense he dosent really apply conventional pressure.

also i dont say im a boxer i am one trust me i know how hard it is, not taht this has anything to do with this thred.

i dont know last time i saw an Eastern European fighter in the Ring ratings as i havent bought Ring in awhile. But is any worhty of it?

[ChrisPontius]

I agree with most of what you say, but this is a serious shout given the beatings that Jeffries shipped.

It's not like he fought anyone so tough that they fed a bear gingersnaps from their own mouth.

Jeffries sure has suffered more injuries like broken noses, busted lips, etc, which is one of the reasons i think Abraham's defence is better.

However, i've never even seen AA stunned and he fought with a broken jaw for almost the entire Miranda (who is a very hard hitter) fight.

[GPater11093]

Jeffries sure has suffered more injuries like broken noses, busted lips, etc, which is one of the reasons i think Abraham's defence is better.

However, i've never even seen AA stunned and he fought with a broken jaw for almost the entire Miranda (who is a very hard hitter) fight.

hes also the class below

but it was amazing surving ten rounds with a broke jaw and winning :shock:

[cotto20]

my mate dont wear glasses no :lol:

yes but thats like saying Kid Gavilan and Jake Lamotta are similar great chins, good stamina, not the biggest hitters

they have similar attributes i agree with that but they arnt similar in anything else IMO. Also i dont think Abraham wears people down int he conventional sense he dosent really apply conventional pressure.

also i dont say im a boxer i am one trust me i know how hard it is, not taht this has anything to do with this thred.

i dont know last time i saw an Eastern European fighter in the Ring ratings as i havent bought Ring in awhile. But is any worhty of it?
Yes Arthur, waldmir, vitali and adamek are all worthy of a place, and yes arthur does wear people down have you seen more than one of his fights?

[GPater11093]

Yes Arthur, waldmir, vitali and adamek are all worthy of a place, and yes arthur does wear people down have you seen more than one of his fights?

who has Arthur beat to deserve a P4P ranking.

Wlad IMO has the best shout there, Vlads been too inactive and just been good at his weight recently whereas Wlad has dominated for ages. Vitali aint got taht depth in recent times.

Adamek again iffy. He is 2 weight champ but not the 2 most stacked weight classes. Not the most skilled guy either. You think hes got a better shot than say Cotto whos borderline P4P top 10 IMO

also yeh i have seen afew of Arthurs fights (not alot admittadly) I have seen Miranda 2, Lopez (i think it was on Nuts TV) and the Oral fight aswell as the Taylor one.

I never said he didnt wear people down he didnt do it conventionally, he kinda lets them wear themselves down hes not liek lamotta always coming and banging the body he kinda stands there and is defensive then bursts out. Which must be the most demoralising and drainging thing ever

[bodhi]

(however my mate who seen the 1st one thinks Miranda won it, i aint seen it so cant comment but i saw the rematch)

Is this myth still going around? Miranda broke Arthur´s jaw in the 4th round. Until then it was either 3-1 Miranda or 2-2. But then, even with a broken jaw, Abraham took over. He even put Miranda on queer street in the 9th but couldn´t follow it up due to beeing exhausted by the blood loss. The last rounds were Miranda´s but not by much. I had it 6-6 after 12. BUT you have to take into account that every third action of Miranda was against the rules, he was like Fritzie Zivic in there without beeing subtile. He earned his point deductions. I think he only didn´t get DQed was because the ref knew he should have aborted the fight after the 4th and wanted to make up for this mistake. Take those deductions into account, even when you think 3 points are too much at the very least 2 would have been okay, and Abraham won. Fairly and rightfully.

[bodhi]

who has Arthur beat to deserve a P4P ranking.

Nobody particular. That´s right. But he made more than 10 defences of his title. Nearly cleaned out mw - aside from Sturm and Pavlik who both avoided him. Constantly showed us his potential by knocking out most of his opponents. Avenging his the one blue eye in his career, Miranda 1. He showed that he has quality. Good enough to be ranked in the Top15-20 p4p.


Wlad IMO has the best shout there, Vlads been too inactive and just been good at his weight recently whereas Wlad has dominated for ages. Vitali aint got taht depth in recent times.

You mean at hw I suppose? You are right there. Wlad could be a borderline p4p Top10 if you include hws in these lists.


Adamek again iffy. He is 2 weight champ but not the 2 most stacked weight classes. Not the most skilled guy either. You think hes got a better shot than say Cotto whos borderline P4P top 10 IMO

Well, he is not the most skilled but he get´s the job done, doesn´t he? Not Top10 yet but let´s see what he can do at hw. I think he can become a top contender perhaps even picking up a belt. And that should earn him a place in the Top10.


also yeh i have seen afew of Arthurs fights (not alot admittadly) I have seen Miranda 2, Lopez (i think it was on Nuts TV) and the Oral fight aswell as the Taylor one.

I never said he didnt wear people down he didnt do it conventionally, he kinda lets them wear themselves down hes not liek lamotta always coming and banging the body he kinda stands there and is defensive then bursts out. Which must be the most demoralising and drainging thing ever

Well, he works the body quite well but he is very inactive. His biggest weakness and the one which will lead eventually to his downfall - by Kessler perhaps? I hoped he would be more active at 168 without all the draining but it seems he is not. Against Dirrell he has to be I think or he will lose a decision.

[Shake]

for me kessler is very over rated! arthur beats him and so does ward

He wins rounds. :shrug: I don't see how Abraham can win without crowding him, and Abraham's strong guard does not do particularly well against Kessler's bread-and-butter one-two down the middle. Unless Abraham nails him with a big punch, this fight is unwinnable for him.

[GPater11093]

Nobody particular. That´s right. But he made more than 10 defences of his title. Nearly cleaned out mw - aside from Sturm and Pavlik who both avoided him. Constantly showed us his potential by knocking out most of his opponents. Avenging his the one blue eye in his career, Miranda 1. He showed that he has quality. Good enough to be ranked in the Top15-20 p4p.

fair enough but i dont think 10 wins over a poor divisions contenders is as good as other peoples wins.

for example Cotto (i believe Ring have him 9th or 10th)

He has wins over Mosley and Clottey recently (1 is a fellow P4Per the other is a top contender in WW a very deep deivision)



You mean at hw I suppose? You are right there. Wlad could be a borderline p4p Top10 if you include hws in these lists.

no disagreement here



Well, he is not the most skilled but he get´s the job done, doesn´t he? Not Top10 yet but let´s see what he can do at hw. I think he can become a top contender perhaps even picking up a belt. And that should earn him a place in the Top10.

For me hed have to be a very obvious talent to get onto the P4P lists and therefore be very skilled. Hes achieved good things but not really amazing things.

Well, he works the body quite well but he is very inactive. His biggest weakness and the one which will lead eventually to his downfall - by Kessler perhaps? I hoped he would be more active at 168 without all the draining but it seems he is not. Against Dirrell he has to be I think or he will lose a decision.

yep

[PowerPuncher]

Nothing alike, since when did Jeffries have a high guard? He has more in common with Winky Wright or Chavez, but people dont compare fighters of different races

[UndisputedUK]

I saw a clip of the knockout over Taylor last Sunday..the first time I've ever seen Arthur, and I must say his style is rather unusual...like he arrive in this day and age from a time machine...very little speed or flash, agility or whatever you may call it, but he's extrremely strong, and that final shot..that right hand, was like a bomb..a very strongly built, slow, wrestlerlike guy..he fights like he has some inside knowledge of the script...that he's going to win eventually. I guess the comparison to Jeffries is a good one..he seems like a smaller version of Jeff...a small grizzly bear in a way. I was impressed by his sheer strength and power, and I think he could beat either Pavlik or Froch, but Kessler may be another story, and Calzaghe would have been way too much for him.

A big bomb, but a controlled shot, nothing wild and then a highlight reel KO. Good isn't he.:thumbsup