View Full Version : Rematch will give Machida an advantage for sure.
Kestrel
10-25-2009, 02:33 AM
There is a psychological damage when you get robbed like that.. it discourages you. In the rematch Machida is going to think he luck that one and he'll come in with a whole new game plan, and Shogun will feel like he has to go for a KO to win and that will play into Machida's style. Shogun has to stay patient and confident like the first match but the rematch might spell differently and gives Machida an advantage mentally.
chimba
10-25-2009, 02:34 AM
1st three rounds Machida won...watch the video.. This was a perfect fight for Shogun, Ive never seen him more technical and careful in his approach. MAchida will learn from this.
Kestrel
10-25-2009, 02:37 AM
1st three rounds Machida won...watch the video.. This was a perfect fight for Shogun, Ive never seen him more technical and careful in his approach. MAchida will learn from this.
Nope can't say I agree, I had Shogun winning 4-1 and that 1 could go either way.
But definitely Machida will learn from this and that's why I say Machida will have an advantage in the rematch.
chimba
10-25-2009, 02:39 AM
Someone needs to break it down for me punch for punch , kicks for kicks and knee by knee and tell me how Shogun won the first three rounds on video.
The third was the closest and Machida won the biggest exchange of the fight in that round.
You guys are so shocked by Shogun performing so well that you forgot they score this by rounds
boxingcar
10-25-2009, 02:42 AM
There is a psychological damage when you get robbed like that.. it discourages you. In the rematch Machida is going to think he luck that one and he'll come in with a whole new game plan, and Shogun will feel like he has to go for a KO to win and that will play into Machida's style. Shogun has to stay patient and confident like the first match but the rematch might spell differently and gives Machida an advantage mentally.
Or not.....Maybe Machida won't be as confident next time and Shogun will be less nervous. And since Machida has been using the same gameplan for years , Shogun should have no problems in the rematch...
Thing is , i doubt Shogun will get a rematch anytime soon.
audio101
10-25-2009, 02:45 AM
Someone needs to break it down for me punch for punch , kicks for kicks and knee by knee and tell me how Shogun won the first three rounds on video.
The third was the closest and Machida won the biggest exchange of the fight in that round.
You guys are so shocked by Shogun performing so well that you forgot they score this by rounds
I take it you missed the biggest shot of the night that shogun landed at the end of round 3? Just admit that you had Machida winning the first three rounds before they even started.
Vitor Belfort
10-25-2009, 02:48 AM
Someone needs to break it down for me punch for punch , kicks for kicks and knee by knee and tell me how Shogun won the first three rounds on video.
The third was the closest and Machida won the biggest exchange of the fight in that round.
You guys are so shocked by Shogun performing so well that you forgot they score this by rounds
Shogun won 2 of the 3 rounds then he won round 4. By round 5 machida needed a KO or sub to win the fight. Shogun was robbed and everbody knew it. I watch the fight in a sports bar and when the winner was announce we booed just like the crowd in LA did. Shogun won the fight
Dynamite Kid
10-25-2009, 02:49 AM
Correction. You mean this is advantage Shogun. He just went 5 rounds and landed his shots with hardly no problem at all against a man that is noted for incredible elusiveness. Probably the best in MMA. Shogun now has 25 mins of experience with him and now has MUCH better insight to the Machida playbook. Shogun is not a stupid fighter that's gonna come in and look for a KO. He's experienced and knows exactly what to do and will probably have an even better GP next time. Shogun at ABSOLUTELY no point in the fight even seemed uncomfortable. The man trained his ass off for everything Machida had and had him well scouted. Advantage mentally FOR SHOGUN. NOT MACHIDA. HE KNEW HE LOST. You assuming Shogun will come in looking for a KO is absurd & ridiculous. Are you a fortune teller or something?
Kestrel
10-25-2009, 02:52 AM
Correction. You mean this is advantage Shogun. He just went 5 rounds and landed his shots with hardly no problem at all against a man that is noted for incredible elusiveness. Probably the best in MMA. Shogun now has 25 mins of experience with him and now has MUCH better insight to the Machida playbook. Shogun is not a stupid fighter that's gonna come in and look for a KO. He's experienced and knows exactly what to do and will probably have an even better GP next time. Shogun at ABSOLUTELY no point in the fight even seemed uncomfortable. The man trained his ass off for everything Machida had and had him well scouted. Advantage mentally FOR SHOGUN. NOT MACHIDA. HE KNEW HE LOST. You assuming Shogun will come in looking for a KO is absurd & ridiculous. Are you a fortune teller or something?
If I was I wouldn't have pick the wrong guy to win. :lol: Just throwing out a psychological analysis. :good
ufoalf
10-25-2009, 07:27 AM
Someone needs to break it down for me punch for punch , kicks for kicks and knee by knee and tell me how Shogun won the first three rounds on video.
The third was the closest and Machida won the biggest exchange of the fight in that round.
You guys are so shocked by Shogun performing so well that you forgot they score this by rounds
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Here.
Shogun was more aggressive, landed more, attempted more takedowns, was the aggressor the whole fight.
Machida did not win a single round. Every single time he landed ANYTHING Shogun replied. There was ONE instance where Machida clearly out landed Shogun landed 3 strikes and a knee only to be answered with a right to a temple. Rest of the shite punches Machida through CLEARLY landed on the block which do not count in either damage nor as a statistic for judges.
bachatu
10-25-2009, 07:31 AM
It will favor Machida because all he needs to do is find an answer for the leg kick and come better prepared. The fact that Machida had no answer in the leg kick early on, slowed him down and it showed later in the fight, which made it easier for Shogun to connect. Shogun fought the perfect fight though, really determined... he fought as good as he could against Machida, IMO.
ufoalf
10-25-2009, 07:34 AM
It will favor Machida because all he needs to do is find an answer for the leg kick and come better prepared. The fact that Machida had no answer in the leg kick early on, slowed him down and it showed later in the fight, which made it easier for Shogun to connect. Shogun fought the perfect fight though, really determined... he fought as good as he could against Machida, IMO.
Definitely agree.
Shogun won, but his "weakness" has not be exposed so how can he possibly make his plan better? Yet, Machida has a chance to adapt and train appropriately to match Shogun. Shogun would have no way of telling what to expect next fight.
Rattler
10-25-2009, 09:05 AM
1 - Machida (the knees and stuffing takedowns gives him the edge)
2 - Machida (again, with stuffing td's and equal attacking gives slight edge to Lyoto)
3 - Shogun (the prep work with chopping the legs fully takes effect and Shogun steps it up while Machida slows down)
4 - Shogun (more of the same)
5 - Shogun (more of the same)
Shogun clearly won the rounds I score for him, whilst Machida narrowly won his.
ufoalf
10-25-2009, 09:07 AM
1 - Machida (the knees and stuffing takedowns gives him the edge)
2 - Machida (again, with stuffing td's and equal attacking gives slight edge to Lyoto)
3 - Shogun (the prep work with chopping the legs fully takes effect and Shogun steps it up while Machida slows down)
4 - Shogun (more of the same)
5 - Shogun (more of the same)
Shogun clearly won the rounds I score for him, whilst Machida narrowly won his.
How is stuffing a takedown = points? If anything it just gives Shogun the aggression kudos.
Rattler
10-25-2009, 09:59 AM
How is stuffing a takedown = points? If anything it just gives Shogun the aggression kudos.
Aggression is nice.... of course, if nothing comes of it, then what is it worth really?
A thousand punches that miss completely counts for something? How?
québecwarrior
10-25-2009, 10:04 AM
rua won. it suck
chimba
10-25-2009, 10:07 AM
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Here.
Shogun was more aggressive, landed more, attempted more takedowns, was the aggressor the whole fight.
Machida did not win a single round. Every single time he landed ANYTHING Shogun replied. There was ONE instance where Machida clearly out landed Shogun landed 3 strikes and a knee only to be answered with a right to a temple. Rest of the shite punches Machida through CLEARLY landed on the block which do not count in either damage nor as a statistic for judges.
You know I was rewatching the fight and I know for sure MAchida especially in the 1st two rounds landed the cleaner shots. I infer that the judges werent counting the takedown attempts and the pushing to the cage and kneeing the thighs.
I was watching it more like a boxing fight than anything given Machidas crispness. But I can see why the agression could have swayed people to Shogun, he had Machida backing up the whole fight trying to engage.
Even on the third round, Rua was actually very agressive early on and this is the round where he was starting to connect on the leg kicks flush. But I felt that Machida stole that round from the judges POV with a late flurry..and it was a significant flurry.
Either way Shogun had the fight of his life.
québecwarrior
10-25-2009, 10:09 AM
You know I was rewatching the fight and I know for sure MAchida especially in the 1st two rounds landed the cleaner shots. I infer that the judges werent counting the takedown attempts and the pushing to the cage and kneeing the thighs.
I was watching it more like a boxing fight than anything given Machidas crispness. But I can see why the agression could have swayed people to Shogun, he had Machida backing up the whole fight trying to engage.
Even on the third round, Rua was actually very agressive early on and this is the round where he was starting to connect on the leg kicks flush. But I felt that Machida stole that round from the judges POV with a late flurry..and it was a significant flurry.
Either way Shogun had the fight of his life.
Lol, in this significant flurry, its Rua who landed the best shot!!
chimba
10-25-2009, 10:10 AM
1 - Machida (the knees and stuffing takedowns gives him the edge)
2 - Machida (again, with stuffing td's and equal attacking gives slight edge to Lyoto)
3 - Shogun (the prep work with chopping the legs fully takes effect and Shogun steps it up while Machida slows down)
4 - Shogun (more of the same)
5 - Shogun (more of the same)
Shogun clearly won the rounds I score for him, whilst Machida narrowly won his.
Exactly the same way I saw it but that third round...Lyoto had Rua reeling towards the end against the cage in an exchange outlanding him 4 to 1 in power shots..Thats third was the toughest. Last two rounds Shogun won clearer than any of the rounds Lyoto won. I dont think the judges were biased, especially the two that scored the 1st three rounds for Lyoto, it made too much sense.
chimba
10-25-2009, 10:11 AM
Lol, in this significant flurry, its Rua who landed the best shot!!
How the hell would you say that when he got freaking kneed to the cage and ROGAN only called the right that landed at the end of the flurry. Again show the gif of this flurry from start to finish.
québecwarrior
10-25-2009, 10:17 AM
listen, even if ROgan was on Rua's nuts, and landed more shot in that exchange, Rua still landed a great shot in that exchange, + he was dictading the whole round!!!!
fact of the matter they both where swinging for the fences in that exchange the difference is after Machida connects Shogun kept punching, after Shogun connects Machida stopped and grabbed on. What does that tell you? I'd say that it tells me Shoguns punch had more effect.
ufoalf
10-25-2009, 10:46 AM
Round 1: Shogun landed 19, Machida 11. Case closed.
smbsmd
10-25-2009, 10:54 AM
imo, Shogun will win the rematch. Karate guys have problems defending themselves vs low kicks.
québecwarrior
10-25-2009, 11:11 AM
Rua landed 82 strikes vs 42 for Machida!!!!!
Rua landed more kicks than overall strike for Machida
Rua landed more, was dicdating the fight, effective agression, controlled the action...
Rattler
10-25-2009, 12:19 PM
Round 1: Shogun landed 19, Machida 11. Case closed.
Did you actually watch the fight?
Shogun got a few taps on leg kicks, several really good body and leg kicks and some landed but non-damaging knees to Machida's thighs up against the cage - about the same effect a foot stomp has.
All but a couple of Machida's lands were solid kicks and a string of good knees to the body.
Shogun only had a few really strong lands in the first round - most of his work wasn't any more effective than Machida's.
It's funny how you don't seem so concerned with the quality of the work as much as the quantity of it.
Rattler
10-25-2009, 12:23 PM
Rua landed 82 strikes vs 42 for Machida!!!!!
Rua landed more kicks than overall strike for Machida
Rua landed more, was dicdating the fight, effective agression, controlled the action...
Yes, Shogun clearly won the fight.
But for the first two rounds, Machida was striking with almost equal value to Shogun's work and was effective in keeping Rua's Muay Thai in control. Shogun didn't start to control the action until after about 12 minutes of repeated work on Machida's thighs and brought Lyoto's pace and manueverability down to his level.
Totomabs
10-25-2009, 01:06 PM
Rua landed 82 strikes vs 42 for Machida!!!!!
Rua landed more kicks than overall strike for Machida
Rua landed more, was dicdating the fight, effective agression, controlled the action...
those are telling stuff i must say
shogun should have won the decision..
i scored it 4 rounds to 1 for shogun (nevermind my avatar though.:lol:)
audio101
10-25-2009, 01:12 PM
Definitely agree.
Shogun won, but his "weakness" has not be exposed so how can he possibly make his plan better? Yet, Machida has a chance to adapt and train appropriately to match Shogun. Shogun would have no way of telling what to expect next fight.
Machida doesn't have any other style to bring to the rematch. Shogun clearly has his number, and will out strike/kick him every time. The rematch is a clear waste, shogun should move on to better fights now.
Totomabs
10-25-2009, 01:19 PM
Machida doesn't have any other style to bring to the rematch. Shogun clearly has his number, and will out strike/kick him every time. The rematch is a clear waste, shogun should move on to better fights now.
all roads to glory lead to machida just the same, since he's still the titleholder
LB3000
10-25-2009, 01:39 PM
Can't wait for the rematch. When the fight was first annoucned I knew Shogun would give Machida problems but my main concern was his stamina. After lasting 5 rounds and putting in a quality performance, I'm even more confident he will take the title in the rematch.
ufoalf
10-25-2009, 06:28 PM
Did you actually watch the fight?
Shogun got a few taps on leg kicks, several really good body and leg kicks and some landed but non-damaging knees to Machida's thighs up against the cage - about the same effect a foot stomp has.
All but a couple of Machida's lands were solid kicks and a string of good knees to the body.
Shogun only had a few really strong lands in the first round - most of his work wasn't any more effective than Machida's.
It's funny how you don't seem so concerned with the quality of the work as much as the quantity of it.
You're talking out of your ass. Not only did Shogun land 2:1 in numbers but every one of his kicks was WAY harder because he kicks Mui Thai style while Machida does his faggy karate leg taps. It was obvious. Don't give me that shit. Look at end results, Machida was limping with red ribs, thighs, and a torn up face. Even Machida's knees were a fucking joke, it looked like he was in aerobics class doing an exercise while Shogun actually threw his hips forwards for every one of HIS knees.
Did you actually watch the fight?
Shogun got a few taps on leg kicks, several really good body and leg kicks and some landed but non-damaging knees to Machida's thighs up against the cage - about the same effect a foot stomp has.
All but a couple of Machida's lands were solid kicks and a string of good knees to the body.
Shogun only had a few really strong lands in the first round - most of his work wasn't any more effective than Machida's.
It's funny how you don't seem so concerned with the quality of the work as much as the quantity of it .
Absolute rubbish. Machida was limping worse than a porn star after her 1st ass gangbang in the 5th. Shogun wore him down, thats why Machida didnt really land anything of note frpm the middle of the 4th onwards.You are just shifting the goalposts to suit your pro Machida agenda.
Did you actually watch the fight?
Rattler
10-26-2009, 09:05 AM
You're talking out of your ass. Not only did Shogun land 2:1 in numbers but every one of his kicks was WAY harder because he kicks Mui Thai style while Machida does his faggy karate leg taps. It was obvious. Don't give me that shit. Look at end results, Machida was limping with red ribs, thighs, and a torn up face. Even Machida's knees were a fucking joke, it looked like he was in aerobics class doing an exercise while Shogun actually threw his hips forwards for every one of HIS knees.
So, Shogun did all of that in the first round?
Amazing.
Rattler
10-26-2009, 09:06 AM
Absolute rubbish. Machida was limping worse than a porn star after her 1st ass gangbang in the 5th. Shogun wore him down, thats why Machida didnt really land anything of note frpm the middle of the 4th onwards.You are just shifting the goalposts to suit your pro Machida agenda.
Did you actually watch the fight?
Dumbass. Try some reading something within the context that it's designed for.
Dumbass. Try some reading something within the context that it's designed for.
Haha :good
AmericanSugar
10-26-2009, 01:53 PM
shogun was the more powerful man. he will know this in the rematch. it might be too much for machida the next time. but machida is a smart fighter.
codeman99998
10-26-2009, 02:28 PM
shogun was the more powerful man. he will know this in the rematch. it might be too much for machida the next time. but machida is a smart fighter.
Machida is a smart fighter for sure but he is used to imposing his style and forcing the other fighter to try to adapt to him. He showed last night that he can't necessarily change what he's doing to adapt to his opponent when his opponent has the upper hand.
After the first fight, I'd give a big mental edge to Shogun. He already knows what worked so well for him this fight and he can always go back to that in the rematch. Also, Shogun has more weapons than just leg and body kicks and Machida will have to be ready for an even better Shogun in the rematch. I don't know if Machida CAN adapt, I don't think he's ever had to change his gameplan to win before.
Someone needs to break it down for me punch for punch , kicks for kicks and knee by knee and tell me how Shogun won the first three rounds on video.
The third was the closest and Machida won the biggest exchange of the fight in that round.
You guys are so shocked by Shogun performing so well that you forgot they score this by roundsthe third round was not the closest it was the most dominate by machida I may have given him a 10-8 round the first two were the closest than 4 and 5 but 4 and five went to rua
imo, Shogun will win the rematch. Karate guys have problems defending themselves vs low kicks. You are an absolute moron.
codeman99998
10-26-2009, 03:32 PM
You are an absolute moron.
Lol from the guy who said he almost gave Machida a 10-8 round 3.
Lol from the guy who said he almost gave Machida a 10-8 round 3.
That was by far the best round for Machida I realize I am on here with an uneducated uninformed and emotional group. But I am on here anyway because sometimes I like to abuse the ignorant. Sometimes it saddens me to think that the rest of the world can't remember anything.
chimba
10-26-2009, 03:48 PM
the third round was not the closest it was the most dominate by machida I may have given him a 10-8 round the first two were the closest than 4 and 5 but 4 and five went to rua
The problem was Shogun was eeking out that round but i agree that exchanged clearly gave that round to lyoto.
codeman99998
10-26-2009, 03:56 PM
The problem was Shogun was eeking out that round but i agree that exchanged clearly gave that round to lyoto.
Yea, I think Lyoto won round 3 but even considering 10-8 is absolutely ridiculous.
chimba
10-26-2009, 04:02 PM
Yea, I think Lyoto won round 3 but even considering 10-8 is absolutely ridiculous.
If that was 10-8 then rd 5 has to be 10-7 for Rua because that was a more dominating rd
MaliSlamusrex
10-27-2009, 04:46 PM
Shogun will need a better game plan to beat Machida, He has the skills but counter kicking is not going to do it, I think Shogun is afraid of the transition to the ground because he doesn't want Machida on top of him. If Shogun had a chance to do some BJJ and tire Machida maybe he could attack with some Muay Thai instead of defending and counter punching.
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