Taylor-Chavez Judge

[Jorodz]

I was just wondering about the judges in Taylor-Chavez 1. Apparently going into the 12th, 2 judges had Taylor ahead. Who was that 3rd judge, how the HELL did he have Chavez ahead, and what other fights, if any, was he allowed to work on?

[pioterbezkitu]

Chuck Giampa

(just checked BoxRec)

[Jorodz]

True enough. I've watched the fight repeatedly and have never been able to give chavez more than 2 rounds but different judges prefer different things i suppose...

[Zakman]

I was just wondering about the judges in Taylor-Chavez 1. Apparently going into the 12th, 2 judges had Taylor ahead. Who was that 3rd judge, how the HELL did he have Chavez ahead, and what other fights, if any, was he allowed to work on?

I dunno. Musta been Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder. :yep

[Thread Stealer]

Taylor was winning IMO, but not as far ahead as many (like the commentators) say he was, and there's been a lot of far worse scorecards from judges than that.

[M.I.G.]

Depending on how you score fights, Chavez could have been winning the fight. He was doing way way WAY more damage than Taylor was. He was pounding his body and hammering Taylor's head with HUGE punches... You should watch the fight with the commentators muted. They had a lot to do with why people thought it was such a robbery. They praised Taylor every time he landed a punch or two, and said nothing when Chavez did his damage...

[Relentless]

maybe he saw how chavez was brutally beating the shit out of taylor into brain damage

[pioterbezkitu]

I dunno. Musta been Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder. :yep

:lol:

Charles was Chuck and Wonder was Giampa :smoke

[o_money]

easiest way to score a fight when your not sure is by asking yourself "which guy would I least like to be rightnow?" and clearly it was taylor.

[o_money]

That didn't start to take effect until the later rounds, and someone's face doesn't exactly show how the fight is going. Taylor was outlanding him 3 to 1 it seemed, and was outboxing him. Sure, the punches Chavez landed were harder, but he was still getting outboxed and outlanded by a lot. No question Taylor should've been up on the cards.
I agree no question he should have been up on the cards. And its not like taylor was hitting chavez with feather fisted punches. He was doing a lot of in fighting and really turning on his shots. He hit chavez with a lot of bombs in that fight.

I can see someone having it close or maybe even but it would be hard to have him ahead.

That being said in my book with the knock down chavez gets a draw or wins. so even if he doesn't get stopped in my mind its a mute point anyways.

[Thread Stealer]

easiest way to score a fight when your not sure is by asking yourself "which guy would I least like to be rightnow?" and clearly it was taylor.

I prefer to score fights by the official criteria, not Max Kellerman's.

[o_money]

its just too bad richard steel was such a corrupt prick and had to rob taylor of the win. Personally, I'd be willing to let this one incident slide but with the amount number of other dodgy stoppages he made I'll glad he got chased out of boxing....the tyson rudduck stoppage was just bullshit.

[o_money]

I prefer to score fights by the official criteria, not Max Kellerman's.

haha I knew someone was gonna say something like that.

[Relentless]

That didn't start to take effect until the later rounds, and someone's face doesn't exactly show how the fight is going. Taylor was outlanding him 3 to 1 it seemed, and was outboxing him. Sure, the punches Chavez landed were harder, but he was still getting outboxed and outlanded by a lot. No question Taylor should've been up on the cards.

i remember watching this fight at the time, i was like wow chavez is taking a beating, i was also shocked and dissapointed at the result but when i watched the fight again after about 5 or 6 years later i didn't see the same fight.

[Thread Stealer]

its just too bad richard steel was such a corrupt prick and had to rob taylor of the win. Personally, I'd be willing to let this one incident slide but with the amount number of other dodgy stoppages he made I'll glad he got chased out of boxing....the tyson rudduck stoppage was just bullshit.

Steele made 2 well-known questionable stoppages, the Tyson-Ruddock 1 being an obviously quick one.

When else did Steele have a dodgy stoppage?

There was the time he probably Barkley-Hearns I go on too long....what are the numerous others?

Steele was a solid ref for many years, who unfortunately gets remembered for a couple of bad or questionable nights rather than how good of a ref he was for a long time.

[Jorodz]

haha, yeah duva may be kind of..eccentric but he knew damn well taylor would not get a fair shake if steele was the ref. don king couldn't let chavez lose and steele took the only opportunity to make it work...

as for scoring, damage or not, taylor owned him completely. he made chavez look like plooding and amateurish. 2 rounds is generous and that's without punch stats. it's the flurries, the combos, the movement the sheer boxing genius taylor exhibted. if you're going by damage taken, then chuvalo beat ali in both fights!

[Thread Stealer]

haha, yeah duva may be kind of..eccentric but he knew damn well taylor would not get a fair shake if steele was the ref. don king couldn't let chavez lose and steele took the only opportunity to make it work..

Lou Duva proved on the same episode of Legendary Nights when he talked about Richard Steele (who later deducted two crucial points from Chavez in his first official loss) that he has no problem completely lying about what happened.

Duva said Steele had a history of favoring King's fighters. When was this history prior to this bout? Tyson-Ruddock I came a year after Chavez-Taylor I.

[Jorodz]

oh yeah, duva was full of shit (i believe he said that he told taylor to box and move during the last round when evidence shows he told taylor to win that round and brawl cause he needed it). i don't know of questionable decisions but it was steele's personal relationship with don king that they were worried about. the rumour was they were close and that was where duva's concern lay.

[divac]

i remember watching this fight at the time, i was like wow chavez is taking a beating, i was also shocked and dissapointed at the result but when i watched the fight again after about 5 or 6 years later i didn't see the same fight.

5 or 6 years of boxing wiser, and removed from the complete and utter brainwashing that the HBO commentators do so well to those who dont have a semblance on how to score a boxing match.

Jim Lampley even admitted it months after the fight......he said, that although Taylor in his opinion was winning, he reviewed the tape and they were clearly calling the fight with a bias toward Taylor, and neglecting to point out the hard straight rights that Chavez would land through each Taylor shoeshine!


Make no mistake about it gentleman, Meldrick Taylor got systematically beatdown, and knocked out!!!!


.......:lol: :lol: :lol: its laughable that many point to a Taylor boxing lesson!
Clearly, I'd love to be at the recieving end of that particular boxing lesson!:yep

[Pat_Lowe]

5 or 6 years of boxing wiser, and removed from the complete and utter brainwashing that the HBO commentators do so well to those who dont have a semblance on how to score a boxing match.

Jim Lampley even admitted it months after the fight......he said, that although Taylor in his opinion was winning, he reviewed the tape and they were clearly calling the fight with a bias toward Taylor, and neglecting to point out the hard straight rights that Chavez would land through each Taylor shoeshine!


Make no mistake about it gentleman, Meldrick Taylor got systematically beatdown, and knocked out!!!!


.......:lol: :lol: :lol: its laughable that many point to a Taylor boxing lesson!
Clearly, I'd love to be at the recieving end of that particular boxing lesson!:yep

The HBO commentators were very biased and I can remember quite a few moments where Taylor would flurry but then Chavez would land a couple of shots and finish the exchange and the commentators would just talk about Taylor's shots.

Regardless I still think Taylor was ahead at the time of the stoppage, he hadn't won like 10 or 11 of the rounds like the HBO judge had it but he was outlanding Chavez by quite alot. Chavez was landing the harder punches but Taylor shouldn't be penalised because he doesn't hit as hard as Chavez and because he cuts and swells easier. Taylor's sheer volume of punches put him in the lead.

[bandeedo]

That didn't start to take effect until the later rounds, and someone's face doesn't exactly show how the fight is going. Taylor was outlanding him 3 to 1 it seemed, and was outboxing him. Sure, the punches Chavez landed were harder, but he was still getting outboxed and outlanded by a lot. No question Taylor should've been up on the cards.
that was the worst beating ever dished out by a plodding amateur and duva jumping up on the apron is an automatic disqualification so he did more to help meldrick lose than steele did.

[bandeedo]

haha, yeah duva may be kind of..eccentric but he knew damn well taylor would not get a fair shake if steele was the ref. don king couldn't let chavez lose and steele took the only opportunity to make it work...

as for scoring, damage or not, taylor owned him completely. he made chavez look like plooding and amateurish. 2 rounds is generous and that's without punch stats. it's the flurries, the combos, the movement the sheer boxing genius taylor exhibted. if you're going by damage taken, then chuvalo beat ali in both fights!
sorry sweet pea, i was trying to respond to jorodz

[Amsterdam]

As equally as bad as the stoppage in this bout, it's a shame championship bouts are not 15 rounders, as there would have been no controversy because Chavez would have had 3 rounds left to finish him off proper and nobody would have argued that stoppage with that in mind.

[divac]

As equally as bad as the stoppage in this bout, it's a shame championship bouts are not 15 rounders, as there would have been no controversy because Chavez would have had 3 rounds left to finish him off proper and nobody would have argued that stoppage with that in mind.

You're right there would'nt have been 3 more rounds, because Steele would have stopped it exactly where he did except without the controversy created by Taylor being oh so close to finishing the bout.

[divac]

Thank god that fight wasnt 15 rounds. While I do wish that championship fights were still 15 rounds, I personally believe with all seriousness that if that fight had gone on three more rounds that Taylor would have been killed in the ring. And I dont mean he might have been killed, or seriously hurt, but 100% saying that he would have have killed by Chavez. A round 13 would have seen Chavez beating him from pillar to post. He wouldt have gotten ripped with a body and head combo and not gotten back up.

The fight would not have gone on three more rounds, because Steele would have stopped it exactly when he did and everyone would have applauded the stoppage.

Steele gets criticized even today because Taylor was so close to the finish line.

Poor Richard, what could he have done different??????Taylor is unresponsive, and yet they criticize him for stopping it!:-(

[aliwasthegreatest]

this is going to turn into a completely different topic. i had taylor ahead. but i could see someone liking Chavez's work more than Taylors

[Jorodz]

bump (cause i'm drunk and ready to fight!)

[divac]

"We need this here round."
......that Lou Duva's instruction upon sending his fighter out for the final round against Chavez.
Duva was watching the same fight that Chuck Giampa was watching.

Poor Lou Duva only changed his tune about his intructions in hindsight, when the biased media was telling him at ringside Taylor was winning.:-(

[Jorodz]

"We need this here round."
......that Lou Duva's instruction upon sending his fighter out for the final round against Chavez.
Duva was watching the same fight that Chuck Giampa was watching.

Poor Lou Duva only changed his tune about his intructions in hindsight, when the biased media was telling him at ringside Taylor was winning.:-(

i remember that legendary nights: duva fucking lied right to the fucking crew and stated he would never tell taylor to go out and fight the 12th round. then they showed the footage of him doing just that.

there is no logical way to score that fight for chavez unless you give points for getting hit in the face, get outworked and made to miss. NOW looking back, chavez did AMAZING work inside and did far more damage, specially with the straight right. but on the 10 point must system, he won maybe 3 rounds

[techks]

i remember that legendary nights: duva fucking lied right to the fucking crew and stated he would never tell taylor to go out and fight the 12th round. then they showed the footage of him doing just that.

there is no logical way to score that fight for chavez unless you give points for getting hit in the face, get outworked and made to miss. NOW looking back, chavez did AMAZING work inside and did far more damage, specially with the straight right. but on the 10 point must system, he won maybe 3 rounds
Yeah I had rounds 5 & 10 for him but I will rewatch this fight once I get Taylor's career set. Taylor did appear tired especially in the last rounds and it was only a matter of time before Chavez would get to him. Much respect to both fighters as they put on a fight about 20 years ago(Yeah, believe it or not:lol:) that is still talked about and debated upon to this day. Great,epic fight:good

[freddy-wak]

True enough. I've watched the fight repeatedly and have never been able to give chavez more than 2 rounds but different judges prefer different things i suppose...


2 rounds !!! get the fuck outta here with that shit

[freddy-wak]

i remember watching this fight at the time, i was like wow chavez is taking a beating, i was also shocked and dissapointed at the result but when i watched the fight again after about 5 or 6 years later i didn't see the same fight.


there were 2 rounds in the fight (late in the fight) that chavez was pounding taylor and the commentators weren't saying a god damn thing......

[divac]

i remember that legendary nights: duva fucking lied right to the fucking crew and stated he would never tell taylor to go out and fight the 12th round. then they showed the footage of him doing just that.

there is no logical way to score that fight for chavez unless you give points for getting hit in the face, get outworked and made to miss. NOW looking back, chavez did AMAZING work inside and did far more damage, specially with the straight right. but on the 10 point must system, he won maybe 3 rounds

I dont agree with what you're saying.......as I watched the fight when it was shown live, that laser guided right that Chavez would shoot out like a missile would stick out to me like a sore thumb......
.......it was just vicious....and the digs to the body were debilitating.
I honestly watched the fight in anger because all the HBO crew talked about was the brilliance of Meldrick Taylor.......
.......when the rights by Chavez were landing with thudding regularity, it was conveniently the HBO crews lag time to talk about anything other than the right in front of them.

What happened afterward was that HBO headquarters got flooded with fanmail complaining about the bias of the boxing broadcast team.......
.....so many fans voiced their displeasure to HBO headquarters, that at one point weeks afterward, Jim Lampley went on record in an interview about the fan mail, and Lampley said that the fanmail forced him to view the videotape for himself.
Lampley re-watched the fight and admitted that the
HBO team was subconciously biased in their call of the fight.

Lampley went on to say, that although he still thought Taylor was winning the fight, he admitted that the HBO team, himself included should have given more credence to the work that now in hindsight having rewatched the fight, Chavez was clearly accomplishing.

In amatuer rules where a jab counts the same as a thudding shot his with force and square on the face, Meldrick Taylor is clearly ahead by amatuer standards.

.....but by pro rules, Chavez-Taylor was a coinflip headed into the final round.

[Jorodz]

I dont agree with what you're saying.......as I watched the fight when it was shown live, that laser guided right that Chavez would shoot out like a missile would stick out to me like a sore thumb......
.......it was just vicious....and the digs to the body were debilitating.
I honestly watched the fight in anger because all the HBO crew talked about was the brilliance of Meldrick Taylor.......
.......when the rights by Chavez were landing with thudding regularity, it was conveniently the HBO crews lag time to talk about anything other than the right in front of them.

What happened afterward was that HBO headquarters got flooded with fanmail complaining about the bias of the boxing broadcast team.......
.....so many fans voiced their displeasure to HBO headquarters, that at one point weeks afterward, Jim Lampley went on record in an interview about the fan mail, and Lampley said that the fanmail forced him to view the videotape for himself.
Lampley re-watched the fight and admitted that the
HBO team was subconciously biased in their call of the fight.

Lampley went on to say, that although he still thought Taylor was winning the fight, he admitted that the HBO team, himself included should have given more credence to the work that now in hindsight having rewatched the fight, Chavez was clearly accomplishing.

In amatuer rules where a jab counts the same as a thudding shot his with force and square on the face, Meldrick Taylor is clearly ahead by amatuer standards.

.....but by pro rules, Chavez-Taylor was a coinflip headed into the final round.

hmmm, it was a lot closer than i intially gave it credit for on first viewing but i can't imagine chavez winning after 8-10 viewings. i may rescore it soon but when you land 8 thudding blows but take 35 lighter ones, i give it to the other guy

[nastynas]

i remember that legendary nights: duva fucking lied right to the fucking crew and stated he would never tell taylor to go out and fight the 12th round. then they showed the footage of him doing just that.

there is no logical way to score that fight for chavez unless you give points for getting hit in the face, get outworked and made to miss. NOW looking back, chavez did AMAZING work inside and did far more damage, specially with the straight right. but on the 10 point must system, he won maybe 3 rounds

That really pissed me off. I hate when trainers act like they are more important than the fighters.

[Jorodz]

2 rounds !!! get the fuck outta here with that shit

:patschi know. that was a little harsh. i still can't give chavez the fight. between 3-5 rounds leading into the 12th is possible but by no means does chavez lead. that's unreasonable. taylor was absolutely leading into the last round. there is no scorecard i can imagine to the contrary

[WhataRock]

Taylor was winning...and Im pretty sure on my card would have won if Steele didnt stop it. But it would have been a pyrrhic victory if there has ever been one.

I think Ill watch it again and put my score up...Im pretty sure I had Mel up 7 to 4..with the 10-8 round that still would have given him a 1 point buffer.

But to be sure Ill give it another look...I think we all should.

[Piffer]

Who cares? The fight got stopped JUSTIFIABLY and Chavez scored a LEGIT stoppage. For the past 8 years of being on ESB it seems I have to argue this every 6 months or so. I'm getting tired of it; people need to get over this.

[Jorodz]

Taylor was winning...and Im pretty sure on my card would have won if Steele didnt stop it. But it would have been a pyrrhic victory if there has ever been one.

I think Ill watch it again and put my score up...Im pretty sure I had Mel up 7 to 4..with the 10-8 round that still would have given him a 1 point buffer.

But to be sure Ill give it another look...I think we all should.

agreed:good over the years i've become much more receptive to chavez's style and the work he did throughout the match. first viewing i gave him 2 rounds, now i can see a case for more. but like you said it didn't really matter, taylor would never have been the same after that. though, like it or not, he would have had a case for the HOF with a win over a nearly prime chavez. that goes a long way

[Jorodz]

Who cares? The fight got stopped JUSTIFIABLY and Chavez scored a LEGIT stoppage. For the past 8 years of being on ESB it seems I have to argue this every 6 months or so. I'm getting tired of it; people need to get over this.

that's what esb is all about, arguing:D this is possibly the most controversial fight of all time, it's only to be expected to come up once in a while

[Piffer]

that's what esb is all about, arguing:D this is possibly the most controversial fight of all time, it's only to be expected to come up once in a while

Touche on arguing being the main point of ESB, but to me it's a fairly obvious choice and I continue to wonder why there is so much controversy. For some reason, when this fight gets mentioned, people tend to forget that boxing is a sport with rules, not a timed street fight.

[ricardinho]

I was just wondering about the judges in Taylor-Chavez 1. Apparently going into the 12th, 2 judges had Taylor ahead. Who was that 3rd judge, how the HELL did he have Chavez ahead, and what other fights, if any, was he allowed to work on?

It is arguable that the same argument against Castillo beating Floyd...Chavez' punches were simply more effective. Plus throughout the fight Chavez was the agressor-- the reasoning used why Pac beat Marquez.

[Thread Stealer]

I gave Chavez rounds 2, 9, and 11.
I gave Taylor rounds 1, 3-8.
I had round 10 even.

7-3-1 Taylor going into the 12th.

[keith]

Taylor was winning...and Im pretty sure on my card would have won if Steele didnt stop it. But it would have been a pyrrhic victory if there has ever been one.

I think Ill watch it again and put my score up...Im pretty sure I had Mel up 7 to 4..with the 10-8 round that still would have given him a 1 point buffer.

But to be sure Ill give it another look...I think we all should.


I had it 7-4 for taylor also, and I could see how someone might have had it 6-5.

Only two rounds for Chavez???

He did a lot of fucking damage in two rounds.......... (I know he could do damage in rounds he lost, but that seemed so poetic.)


Keith

[keith]

I gave Chavez rounds 2, 9, and 11.
I gave Taylor rounds 1, 3-8.
I had round 10 even.

7-3-1 Taylor going into the 12th.

Same here, except I scored the 10th for Chavez not even.

And I thought the 5th could go either way. I think that was the round.

Keith

[Thread Stealer]

The 10th was a great round.

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[keith]

HAHAHAHAHAH Chavez on the verge of going down........


Lampley is such a douche.

I didn't remember him saying that.


Keith

[divac]

The 10th was a great round.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I beg all of you to watch the 3 rounds Thread Stealer posted......

Watch them with the sound off for Gods sake......I nearly punched a fucking hole through my computer screen hearing the nonsense of Lampley, Leonard, and Merchant.

I thought Chavez won all three of those rounds......
The eighth round Chavez actually outboxes Taylor on the backfoot, but is'nt given any credit by HBO because according to them, Taylor is making Chavez retreat.:patsch

The ninth was the closer round of the three, Chavez still landing the cleaner harder blows.......

The 10th was classic Chavez........his shots landing with thudding regularity......LOL at the commentating crew stating Chavez was about to go down by a Taylor flurry early in that 10 round, but Taylor actually missed every shot in that flurry with Chavez moving his head and swiveling his body to make Taylor miss everyone of those shots.......


I think what it comes down to for me when analyzing hte whole fight is that Taylor's workrate was higher, but Chavez was landing cleaner and harder, and at a higher connect %.
The difference thats evident to me is that Chavez' defense was much better than Taylor's......
When Chavez landed, it was crisp and thudding with Taylor taking the brunt of the punch.

So many of Taylor's connects were being parried, ridden, and nullified by Chavez riding the punch.......alot of people just pay attention to Taylor's hands moving but dont pay attention that Chavez is nullifying those shots with his head movement.

Chavez was the better defensive fighter throughout, and it was telling in the fighters faces as the fight wore.......



I could go on and on.......alot of you around here have seen me do it too.....:lol:


I'm absolutely emphatic about this, watch those rounds Thread Stealer posted with the sound off.......there is no other conclusion to me but that Chavez won those rounds!:deal

[tepaltzin]

HAHAHAHAHAH Chavez on the verge of going down........


Lampley is such a douche.

I didn't remember him saying that.


Keith


"Chavez the great body-puncher is reduced to head-hunting" says Lampley.

A second later Chavez connect with two solid body punches:lol:

[duranimal]

Thats the 1st time i've heard this commentary:yikes:fire what a bunch of cunts, jeezus i thought Col Bob got carried away but this is pure fantasy with more than a bit of SRL foreskin sucking thrown in for good measure:deal

I was at this fight & of course it ai'nt easy to score it effectivly what with the atmosphere & emotion of the night but it looked all Taylor from were i was sat but watching it when i flew back home with Col Bob commentating you'd think Chavez had'nt turned up. I've watched it a few times years back & had it for Taylor by 3 rounds.

I've watched it again recently & with the volume down low there's def a case that you could have Chavez pinching it I posted my rounds a while back & i'am sure that i had close or level coming into the last & in most of the early rounds Chavez blocked plenty of Taylors work & landed brutally,

I'll go watch it again:yep

But that commentary is a fuckin disgrace & near on identical too the Leonard/Duran "Montreal" bullshit which just gushed all over Leonard regardless of the battering he was getting:deal

[Bill Butcher]

I was just wondering about the judges in Taylor-Chavez 1. Apparently going into the 12th, 2 judges had Taylor ahead. Who was that 3rd judge, how the HELL did he have Chavez ahead, and what other fights, if any, was he allowed to work on?

I heard it was Chuck Giampa :lol:... the same incompetent fuck that had Barrera 8-4 up on Morales in their 2nd fight :rofl

[Bill Butcher]

Taylor was winning...and Im pretty sure on my card would have won if Steele didnt stop it. But it would have been a pyrrhic victory if there has ever been one.

I think Ill watch it again and put my score up...Im pretty sure I had Mel up 7 to 4..with the 10-8 round that still would have given him a 1 point buffer.

But to be sure Ill give it another look...I think we all should.

I actually watched last night but did not score it.... I just think its a brilliant fight between 2 top 5 (at that time) p4pers with an amazing finish.

Also... there would have been AT LEAST as much contraversy if the bell saved Taylor, it would have been clear as day that he was done & the real winner was only beaten by the clock as opposed to the fighter.

Chavez did the more damage but Taylor threw more & scored more punches... I think if it never got stopped, Taylor should have had enough of a lead to have had the fight won no doubt, personally but HBO had their heads up their asses, they only gave JCC rds 10 & 11... 7-4 going into the last rd (in Taylor`s favour) seems about fair to me tho I might have to score it next time to be sure.

Either way, it deseved to be voted FOTD for the 90s IMO... Im glad it did :good

[Jorodz]

I beg all of you to watch the 3 rounds Thread Stealer posted......

Watch them with the sound off for Gods sake......I nearly punched a fucking hole through my computer screen hearing the nonsense of Lampley, Leonard, and Merchant.

I thought Chavez won all three of those rounds......
The eighth round Chavez actually outboxes Taylor on the backfoot, but is'nt given any credit by HBO because according to them, Taylor is making Chavez retreat.:patsch

The ninth was the closer round of the three, Chavez still landing the cleaner harder blows.......

The 10th was classic Chavez........his shots landing with thudding regularity......LOL at the commentating crew stating Chavez was about to go down by a Taylor flurry early in that 10 round, but Taylor actually missed every shot in that flurry with Chavez moving his head and swiveling his body to make Taylor miss everyone of those shots.......


I think what it comes down to for me when analyzing hte whole fight is that Taylor's workrate was higher, but Chavez was landing cleaner and harder, and at a higher connect %.
The difference thats evident to me is that Chavez' defense was much better than Taylor's......
When Chavez landed, it was crisp and thudding with Taylor taking the brunt of the punch.

So many of Taylor's connects were being parried, ridden, and nullified by Chavez riding the punch.......alot of people just pay attention to Taylor's hands moving but dont pay attention that Chavez is nullifying those shots with his head movement.

Chavez was the better defensive fighter throughout, and it was telling in the fighters faces as the fight wore.......



I could go on and on.......alot of you around here have seen me do it too.....:lol:


I'm absolutely emphatic about this, watch those rounds Thread Stealer posted with the sound off.......there is no other conclusion to me but that Chavez won those rounds!:deal

you raise some good points and though i rarely make it a point to watch a fight without the sound, i think i should do so here:bbb

[Kush]

Giampa can see the future

[saul_ir34]

This fight gets brought up more than any other classic.

Get over it!! There was a damn rematch and Taylor got KTFO again.

Also as it has been said already Chavez was doing most of the damage and wasnt far behind. I forget my card but it was much closer than people make it out to be.

[Thread Stealer]

This fight gets brought up more than any other classic.

Get over it!! There was a damn rematch and Taylor got KTFO again.

Also as it has been said already Chavez was doing most of the damage and wasnt far behind. I forget my card but it was much closer than people make it out to be.

The rematch was about 3 to 4 years overdue and just a matter of "who has declined less".

[divac]

This fight gets brought up more than any other classic.

Get over it!! There was a damn rematch and Taylor got KTFO again.

Also as it has been said already Chavez was doing most of the damage and wasnt far behind. I forget my card but it was much closer than people make it out to be.

After the fight had been stopped, my feeling right away was that a year would'nt go by and they were going to do it again.......I mean my goodness, what a fight!

......but it was'nt to be.....and in fairness to Meldrick Taylor who was one hell of a fighter.....Duva promotions made sure that he would'nt have to face Chavez again at 140 lbs.
While Taylor wanted an immediate rematch, the Duva's convinced Meldrick Taylor to immediately jump to 147 lbs and make Chavez go to him at a weight they had an inkling Chavez would'nt take too as well as Taylor could.

The Duva's were so in awe and aware of what a monster Chavez was at 140 lbs and below, that when Whitaker jumped from 135 lbs the divsion where he fought for years to 140 lbs.......Whitaker was matched with Rafael Pineda for the IBF trinket, and the Duva's immediately had Pernell jump to 147 lbs away from the division that Julio Cesar Chavez ruled with an iron fist.

The Duva's did'nt want either Taylor or Whitaker to fight Chavez at the 140 lbs limit......and that my friends is a fact!:deal:deal:deal:deal

When Chavez and Whitker finally met, it was at a catchweight of 145 lbs, and Chavez could only go as far as weighing 142 lbs at the official weighin.

Whitaker came in at the contracted limit of 145 lbs, and was likely heavier than that when in the ring.
The Duva's were smart about that move, because it definitely benefited Whitaker that he was the heavier fighter.....and that extra weight he had on helped him against the strenghth of JC Chavez.


......back to Taylor, by the time he was able to secure the rematch that from the begginingg he wanted so badly......those idiots at Main Events led by the Duva's had furthered ruined Taylor by having him have fought at 154 lbs vs Terry Norris who was himself a monster of a fighter at that time at 154 lbs!

[keith]

"Chavez the great body-puncher is reduced to head-hunting" says Lampley.

A second later Chavez connect with two solid body punches:lol:


and while he said that, he landed two solid head shots.


Lampley is a douche.


Keith

[jaycuban]

you wanna know who that judge was ? well he was the one that was bought.

[techks]

After the fight had been stopped, my feeling right away was that a year would'nt go by and they were going to do it again.......I mean my goodness, what a fight!

......but it was'nt to be.....and in fairness to Meldrick Taylor who was one hell of a fighter.....Duva promotions made sure that he would'nt have to face Chavez again at 140 lbs.
While Taylor wanted an immediate rematch, the Duva's convinced Meldrick Taylor to immediately jump to 147 lbs and make Chavez go to him at a weight they had an inkling Chavez would'nt take too as well as Taylor could.

The Duva's were so in awe and aware of what a monster Chavez was at 140 lbs and below, that when Whitaker jumped from 135 lbs the divsion where he fought for years to 140 lbs.......Whitaker was matched with Rafael Pineda for the IBF trinket, and the Duva's immediately had Pernell jump to 147 lbs away from the division that Julio Cesar Chavez ruled with an iron fist.

The Duva's did'nt want either Taylor or Whitaker to fight Chavez at the 140 lbs limit......and that my friends is a fact!:deal:deal:deal:deal

When Chavez and Whitker finally met, it was at a catchweight of 145 lbs, and Chavez could only go as far as weighing 142 lbs at the official weighin.

Whitaker came in at the contracted limit of 145 lbs, and was likely heavier than that when in the ring.
The Duva's were smart about that move, because it definitely benefited Whitaker that he was the heavier fighter.....and that extra weight he had on helped him against the strenghth of JC Chavez.


......back to Taylor, by the time he was able to secure the rematch that from the begginingg he wanted so badly......those idiots at Main Events led by the Duva's had furthered ruined Taylor by having him have fought at 154 lbs vs Terry Norris who was himself a monster of a fighter at that time at 154 lbs!
Great post and to add to that, MT was on a winning streak but Norris made sure that wouldn't continue. After Norris, Taylor only had a little in the tank and just wasn't the same fighter that fought Chavez 4 years ago.

[Sweet Pea]

I could understand the fight being scored 7-4 at worst for Taylor going into the final, with that last round leaving Taylor a one point edge in the scoring had it been allowed to continue. Either way, Taylor was leading on the cards, but not by as much as people make out. Nor did the cards tell the story of the fight. One of the most subtle beatings of all time.

[keith]

After the fight had been stopped, my feeling right away was that a year would'nt go by and they were going to do it again.......I mean my goodness, what a fight!

......but it was'nt to be.....and in fairness to Meldrick Taylor who was one hell of a fighter.....Duva promotions made sure that he would'nt have to face Chavez again at 140 lbs.
While Taylor wanted an immediate rematch, the Duva's convinced Meldrick Taylor to immediately jump to 147 lbs and make Chavez go to him at a weight they had an inkling Chavez would'nt take too as well as Taylor could.

The Duva's were so in awe and aware of what a monster Chavez was at 140 lbs and below, that when Whitaker jumped from 135 lbs the divsion where he fought for years to 140 lbs.......Whitaker was matched with Rafael Pineda for the IBF trinket, and the Duva's immediately had Pernell jump to 147 lbs away from the division that Julio Cesar Chavez ruled with an iron fist.

The Duva's did'nt want either Taylor or Whitaker to fight Chavez at the 140 lbs limit......and that my friends is a fact!:deal:deal:deal:deal

When Chavez and Whitker finally met, it was at a catchweight of 145 lbs, and Chavez could only go as far as weighing 142 lbs at the official weighin.

Whitaker came in at the contracted limit of 145 lbs, and was likely heavier than that when in the ring.
The Duva's were smart about that move, because it definitely benefited Whitaker that he was the heavier fighter.....and that extra weight he had on helped him against the strenghth of JC Chavez.


......back to Taylor, by the time he was able to secure the rematch that from the begginingg he wanted so badly......those idiots at Main Events led by the Duva's had furthered ruined Taylor by having him have fought at 154 lbs vs Terry Norris who was himself a monster of a fighter at that time at 154 lbs!

Excellent post.

I have always contended that at 140 a prime Chavez ko's Whitaker, or beats him into running all night. But at 147, Chavez never really belonged, and Whitaker took advantage of that.

Keith

[divac]

Excellent post.

I have always contended that at 140 a prime Chavez ko's Whitaker, or beats him into running all night. But at 147, Chavez never really belonged, and Whitaker took advantage of that.

Keith

Thats what I've always said as well......

Whitaker was always going to be quicker and faster than Chavez at any weight......so what Chavez needed was a strenghth and punching power advantage to offset Whitaker's quickness and speed......

I've always just shook my head in disgust when the Whitaker fans have voiced their opinions that Whitaker would have beaten Chavez much clearer at 135 lbs because Whitaker was a better lightweight than a Welterweight.

With the fight at Welter and Whitaker being heavier, the strenghth factor that would have been Chavez' at any weight of 140 lbs and below, evened out and I believe even tilted toward Pernell.....
Whitaker did alot of running vs Chavez, but when they did body up at close quarters, Chavez was'nt physically moving Whitaker........
.....so yes, I do believe Whitaker was physically stronger than Chavez at 147 lbs, to go along with his advantage in quickness and speed.
A strenghth advantage that would not have been Whitaker's at 140 lbs and below.


Listen, what I'm saying is'nt even my opinion......Lou Duva even admitted to such in a boxing magazine before Chavez even fought Whitaker........so its a fact that that was the Duva plan all along....they wanted no part of JC Chavez at 140 lbs.

[Thread Stealer]

Norris-Taylor was at a catchweight of 149, but I agree that it was a bad management decision to put Taylor in with a guy like Norris. Taylor had enough problems at WW with his style and the talent level around at the time. Santana was a real tough style matchup regardless of the beatings Taylor had taken, but Taylor had to face him because he was a mandatory. Norris however, wasn't necessary.

[thanosone]

I was just wondering about the judges in Taylor-Chavez 1. Apparently going into the 12th, 2 judges had Taylor ahead. Who was that 3rd judge, how the HELL did he have Chavez ahead, and what other fights, if any, was he allowed to work on?

I think that he saw Chavez punishing Taylor with shots that break fucking bones. Which they did.

[Thread Stealer]

Sugar Ray Leonard said that Chavez was being "discomboomerated".

[Super_Fly_Sam]

The fight would not have gone on three more rounds, because Steele would have stopped it exactly when he did and everyone would have applauded the stoppage.

Steele gets criticized even today because Taylor was so close to the finish line.

Poor Richard, what could he have done different??????Taylor is unresponsive, and yet they criticize him for stopping it!:-(

I agree...

there is no denying it Richard was lookin straight at Meldrick and can be clearly seen askin him twice if he was ok to which he recieved not even a nod of the head..

Also even if u wanna make the there ws only 2 secs left claim.... its not the ref's job to watch the clock!!!..

headMeldrick and Lou only have themselves to blame for it if u ask me...


that being said though i would have liked to see Meldrick get the sattifaction of being the first man to beat Chavez as i had him winning the a close but deserving decision if he was granted the chance to go on. And it would be good for Meldrick to at least have that win as some sort of constilation prize due to his current mental and physical state.

[ricardinho]

True enough. I've watched the fight repeatedly and have never been able to give chavez more than 2 rounds but different judges prefer different things i suppose...

In that fight if you turn the sound up loud enough you realize how hard he was being hit. Chavez still remained the agressor and Taylor's shots were not as effective as Chavez' punches. Its a shame that the beating he received ruined him as an immediate rematch would have been an awesome fight.

[thanosone]

I agree...

there is no denying it Richard was lookin straight at Meldrick and can be clearly seen askin him twice if he was ok to which he recieved not even a nod of the head..

Also even if u wanna make the there ws only 2 secs left claim.... its not the ref's job to watch the clock!!!..

headMeldrick and Lou only have themselves to blame for it if u ask me...


that being said though i would have liked to see Meldrick get the sattifaction of being the first man to beat Chavez as i had him winning the a close but deserving decision if he was granted the chance to go on. And it would be good for Meldrick to at least have that win as some sort of constilation prize due to his current mental and physical state.

And deny CHAVEZ the KO? Not fair at all. Boxing has a time limit and rules for a reason. It's not charity. The guy got murdered before the 36 min mark.

[ricardinho]

I agree...

there is no denying it Richard was lookin straight at Meldrick and can be clearly seen askin him twice if he was ok to which he recieved not even a nod of the head..

Also even if u wanna make the there ws only 2 secs left claim.... its not the ref's job to watch the clock!!!..

headMeldrick and Lou only have themselves to blame for it if u ask me...


that being said though i would have liked to see Meldrick get the sattifaction of being the first man to beat Chavez as i had him winning the a close but deserving decision if he was granted the chance to go on. And it would be good for Meldrick to at least have that win as some sort of constilation prize due to his current mental and physical state.

I beg all of you to watch the 3 rounds Thread Stealer posted......

Watch them with the sound off for Gods sake......I nearly punched a fucking hole through my computer screen hearing the nonsense of Lampley, Leonard, and Merchant.

I thought Chavez won all three of those rounds......
The eighth round Chavez actually outboxes Taylor on the backfoot, but is'nt given any credit by HBO because according to them, Taylor is making Chavez retreat.:patsch

The ninth was the closer round of the three, Chavez still landing the cleaner harder blows.......

The 10th was classic Chavez........his shots landing with thudding regularity......LOL at the commentating crew stating Chavez was about to go down by a Taylor flurry early in that 10 round, but Taylor actually missed every shot in that flurry with Chavez moving his head and swiveling his body to make Taylor miss everyone of those shots.......


I think what it comes down to for me when analyzing hte whole fight is that Taylor's workrate was higher, but Chavez was landing cleaner and harder, and at a higher connect %.
The difference thats evident to me is that Chavez' defense was much better than Taylor's......
When Chavez landed, it was crisp and thudding with Taylor taking the brunt of the punch.

So many of Taylor's connects were being parried, ridden, and nullified by Chavez riding the punch.......alot of people just pay attention to Taylor's hands moving but dont pay attention that Chavez is nullifying those shots with his head movement.

Chavez was the better defensive fighter throughout, and it was telling in the fighters faces as the fight wore.......



I could go on and on.......alot of you around here have seen me do it too.....:lol:


I'm absolutely emphatic about this, watch those rounds Thread Stealer posted with the sound off.......there is no other conclusion to me but that Chavez won those rounds!:deal

Carolla Says It Best-- The ref is not a timekeeper

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[Jorodz]

I think that he saw Chavez punishing Taylor with shots that break fucking bones. Which they did.

he did but fights are scored on rounds, not overall damage. you cannot justify a score where chavez won more rounds. i was excessively harsh with 2 rounds. a case can be made for 3 or 4. no more than that though under virtually any scoring criteria

[Popkins]

Taylor had a wide, unassailable lead on my card. If he had lost that last round 10-8, he'd still have been a clear winner. He pretty much dominated Chavez for the majority of the fight.

[thanosone]

he did but fights are scored on rounds, not overall damage. you cannot justify a score where chavez won more rounds. i was excessively harsh with 2 rounds. a case can be made for 3 or 4. no more than that though under virtually any scoring criteria

Depends. Let's say Taylor landed 10 quick punches that really didn't do damage, but Chavez lands 5 blows that hurt Taylor. Who do you give that round to? I think Taylor was ahead 7-4 before the 12th. Chavez needed the KO and he got it.

[Jorodz]

Depends. Let's say Taylor landed 10 quick punches that really didn't do damage, but Chavez lands 5 blows that hurt Taylor. Who do you give that round to? I think Taylor was ahead 7-4 before the 12th. Chavez needed the KO and he got it.

for sure, it would be tough. but there are rounds where taylor lands 10 blows, then chavez nothing. if you are outlanded 4-1 consistently you aren't winning the round unless the guy is noticably hurt. anyone who said that the blows were visibly hurting, stunning and affecting taylor is biased at best: when you saw him in the corner sure but taylor was not stubbling around the ring at any point. he was rarely, if ever, stunned until the 11th and though there was a visual effect on his face, as you're scoring the rounds none of chavez's blows appeared to hurt him that badly or cause THAT much damage. that's why it's referred to as a subtle beating: only in retrospect do people score it close.