How will our smaller fighters rate in East Side ATG rankings?

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

It will be interesting to see how some of our lighter weight division fighters rate in East Side ATG rankings.

So far they've done:

Heavyweight Top 10
1.1675 Muhammad Ali (52)
2. 1375 Joe Louis (23)
3. 638 Rocky Marciano (1)
4. 580 Larry Holmes
5. 488 Lennox Lewis (1)
6. 462 Jack Johnson (1)
7. 318 [tie] George Foreman
7. 318 [tie] Jack Dempsey (2)
9. 233 Mike Tyson
10. 221 Joe Frazier

for full list of Top 22: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Light Heavyweight Top 10
1. 971 Ezzard Charles (30)
2. 652 Archie Moore (4)
3. 557 Gene Tunney (8 )
4. 452 Sam Langford (4)
5. 328 Michael Spinks (1)
6. 288 Bob Foster
7. 181 Harry Greb
8. 148 Billy Conn
9. 140 Tommy Loughran
10. 81 Bob Fitzsimmons

for full list of Top 24: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Middleweight Top 10
1. 736 Carlos Monzon (13)
2. 718 Harry Greb (15)
3. 606 Marvin Hagler (8 )
4. 513 Sugar Ray Robinson (5)
5. 214 Bernard Hopkins
6. 155 Bob Fitzsimmons (2)
7. 140 Charles Burley
8. 121 Stanley Ketchel
9. 120 Mickey Walker
10. 116 Dick Tiger

for full list of Top 35: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Will be interesting to see how/if Darcy, Sands, Carrothers, Rose, Fammo, Fenech, Kostya, Darchinyan etc rate when their divisions are voted on.

[WhataRock]

Im not sure if Rummy will do jnr welter or super fly Coulda. I think he is doing the original 8.

Bantam will be interesting...I might start researching now because the others I pretty much just did others on the fly..Id love to be able to slot Jimmy and Lionel in my rankings..but that divvy is stacked.

Jeff I dont think will rate anywhere really..just doesnt have the names. He is more a p4p and h2h kind of guy. Dont think he will make a top 10 for bantam or feather...superbantam no doubt but Im not sure if thats getting done.

[flamengo]

I like making a comparison between Darcy a Greb. Both born a year apart, Greb the older. By the age of 21 Greb had 40 contests. Darcy 50 contests.

Greb. Of those 40 contests, 1 ten round battle, 3 draws, 6 losses, 1 ko by, 3 ko's, all the rest were 6 round ND's (No Decisions). Greb had been KO'd in 3 rounds by George Chip, Les Darcy's last opponent. Darcy KO'd Chip in 9.

Darcy 16 points wins.
29 KO's
1 by Disq.
LD Twice
LF 1
L dsq 1

He'd fought a dozen 20 round distance fights. 22 times past the 10 round journey. He was known to carry opponents the journey, under instruction of Stadiums Ltd. Nothing America sent to our shores actually got the better of Darcy. He either bettered them, broke them, or suffered the indignation of their unwillingness to fight a final result. Jeff 'sooky pants' Smith being a prime example.

Placing Darcy in a top10 list might stur the idiots mate, but he has the goods to be cast in stone in any top ten that include Greb or Ketchell.

[WhataRock]

I actually had him in my 10 initially flamey..right under Flowers but he got pushed out when I kept on remembering names.

That division is just to hard to rank.

[flamengo]

I actually had him in my 10 initially flamey..right under Flowers but he got pushed out when I kept on remembering names.

That division is just to hard to rank.


More than fair, as Darcy's Tale is a left unfulfilled. He'd have shaked the boots of all Americans of the day, including the skinny up and comer 'Tunney' had Darcy seen another 5 years. Dempsey would have been a great match up.

So many matches were missed, and so much history left in tatters. McCoy, Dillion, Carpentier, Willard.. all expecting a bout, and all expected to be beaten.

[ipswich express]

Gee I don't know if Darcy beats them all, however there's some fantastic battles amongst them.

[flamengo]

Gee I don't know if Darcy beats them all, however there's some fantastic battles amongst them.

Willard and Dempsey.. I dont see many other hurdles.

[ipswich express]

They were the main two I was referring to, although you could make a case for The Orchid Man too.

[flamengo]

They were the main two I was referring to, although you could make a case for The Orchid Man too.

With Darcy's chin and strength?? I doubt it. They already faced mutual opponents who were well in favour of Darcy. Fred Fulton giving up after 2 rounds of sparring convinced himself (Fulton) and others that Willard was a body ready to break.

[ipswich express]

You know yourself though that fighter A beating Fighter B, is no guarantee of a result with fighter C. I don't see Darcy beating Dempsey at all. But that says more about Jack than it does about Les. Carpentier would have had a significant height and reach advantage. Whether he could keep the relentless Darcy off him is anyone's guess.

[flamengo]

You know yourself though that fighter A beating Fighter B, is no guarantee of a result with fighter C. I don't see Darcy beating Dempsey at all. But that says more about Jack than it does about Les. Carpentier would have had a significant height and reach advantage. Whether he could keep the relentless Darcy off him is anyone's guess.

Dempsey would be the hardest test.

Had Carpentier been convinced to visit America, soon after Darcy's arrival (as was planned an 90% agreed), Darcy would have been in a position to fight at L/HW. Carpentier was little more than a trimmed M/W. Les continually fought larger men, from the age of 16.. Taller men... I can't imagine Carpentier having more luck with Darcy than any other man. The if's and But's are numerous, although Darcy had spent his early days, of multiple preparations, sparring the men available to him in the U.S.A. Rickard was certain to match Darcy with Willard, after making huge money against Carpentier. Tex obviously held out for the 'massive' pay days. I doubt he was seeking anything for Darcy at any time outside of NYS. Rickards hand, IMO, was firmly placed up Whitmans arse, for the sake of M.S.G.

[ipswich express]

Nothing much has changed after all these years has it? It's still about the coin.

[flamengo]

Nothing much has changed after all these years has it? It's still about the coin.

Tex was looking to finance the purchase of M.S.G.

[ranser]

I must admit, it surprises me the knowledge some of you posters have on boxing.
You can name real specific details about many boxers' careers.
Most of you must have been boxing fans for a long long time.

[flamengo]

I must admit, it surprises me the knowledge some of you posters have on boxing.
You can name real specific details about many boxers' careers.
Most of you must have been boxing fans for a long long time.

Got it all from Boxrec. :D

[roscoe]

I find it hard to believe that a fighter of a prime Roy Jones Jnr doesn't get a rating at lightheavy.

[ipswich express]

Hard to make a case for him anywhere higher than 8th IMO. Beating David Telesco and Julio Gonzalez only gets you so far.

[WhataRock]

When you look who is ahead of him roscoe..its not that big of a surprise.

He really didnt beat to many good fighters at 175..and was unable to get a bout with his main rival during that time.
His two biggest wins were against Hopkins (middleweight) and Toney (supermiddle)..and actually his next one would probably be Ruiz at heavy.

I think losing to guys like Tarver and Johnson does hurt him a little but not to much.

He would make my top 10 h2h for sure...but his resume at the weight is a little thin.

[Phil Austin]

I like making a comparison between Darcy a Greb. Both born a year apart, Greb the older. By the age of 21 Greb had 40 contests. Darcy 50 contests.

Greb. Of those 40 contests, 1 ten round battle, 3 draws, 6 losses, 1 ko by, 3 ko's, all the rest were 6 round ND's (No Decisions). Greb had been KO'd in 3 rounds by George Chip, Les Darcy's last opponent. Darcy KO'd Chip in 9.

Darcy 16 points wins.
29 KO's
1 by Disq.
LD Twice
LF 1
L dsq 1

He'd fought a dozen 20 round distance fights. 22 times past the 10 round journey. He was known to carry opponents the journey, under instruction of Stadiums Ltd. Nothing America sent to our shores actually got the better of Darcy. He either bettered them, broke them, or suffered the indignation of their unwillingness to fight a final result. Jeff 'sooky pants' Smith being a prime example.

Placing Darcy in a top10 list might stur the idiots mate, but he has the goods to be cast in stone in any top ten that include Greb or Ketchell.

Sooky Pants isn't a very tough ring name. He really should have thought of something better

[roscoe]

Ippy not saying up the top but has to be in the 10. There's plenty of Telescos & Gonzales on most fighters log's Ippy. Go thru Bhops fight log & you"ll find plenty of them, yet he sits in 5th of ATG middles. The fact remains in his prime, Roy was pretty much untouchable. He dismantled Virgil Hill with one body shot. He did it to all the fighters he fought. Beat all of them with natural speed both hand & foot,and fantastic reflexes.
You talk P4P fighters in their prime, Roy Jones Jnr gets a mention.

[ipswich express]

Jones was beaten 2 out of 3 fights by his biggest rival at 175lbs. He ducked the other one. We're not talking P4P. It's his body of work at Lt Heavy, where wins over a faded Mike McCallum, Hill and either Tarver or Reggie Johnson are the highlights.

[ranser]

Got it all from Boxrec. :D


hehe, all you boxrec warriors!

[flamengo]

Sooky Pants isn't a very tough ring name. He really should have thought of something better

'sooky pants' is adaptable to Jeff Smith...

MISTER SOOKY SOILED PANTS is an adaptable title for your Swimwear.....

[China_hand_Joe]

Tszyu is one of the 10 best P4P fighters in the history of boxing.

[roscoe]

Ippy I'm talking prime, not past versions of Roy. And don't try & tell me he ducked DM. Roy would have walked thru him. Your obviously not a fan as you keep hold of those losses more than his wins. Each to their own.

[ipswich express]

I'm not a great fan, but I can appreciate his achievements. It's just there has been plenty of better Lt Heavy's than him.

[WhataRock]

You have to remember Lt heavy has a deep and rich history...You have a lot of great fighters to consider when rating the division.

[roscoe]

I here what your both saying. But here's my question, where does a talent of Roy Jones Jnr sit then if its not lightheavy. Amazing talent, speed, skills & power but can't crack a top 10 ATG list at either middle or lightheavy. Doesn't make sense to me especially when he was the P4P king for nearly a decade.

[WhataRock]

Thats the thing..he ranks very high in p4p rankings because he was so successful over a range of weights, not just one in particular.

Id have him probably 12-13 at lightheavy..of course he is top 5 at supermiddle even if he only had like half a dozen fights there.

He also ranks very high for my personal h2h rankings, meaning who likely beats who. No fighter who has fought in the supermiddle division since its creation beats him, very few fighters beat him a middleweight...quite possibly no one. A few guys Id pick to beat him at 175 but not many..As I said he comfortably makes the top 10 H2H there.

Roy has had a fantastic career...but as for his specific reign at 175, performances and names all taken into account, I dont have any issue rankings 10 guys in front of him.

[ipswich express]

What he said...

[roscoe]

Good read whata, hard to argue with what you said mate.