Is boxing more mental toughness than physical?

[ranser]

Boxing can be the harshest sport in the world in terms of emotional pain.Nothing really compares.
After a ko loss or a demoralising beating,you feel like the world has come down crashing on you.

It sometimes amazes me how a boxer can be so immune to the emotional pain one goes through after a brutal loss , and come back just as motivated.
Do these people not have any feelings , do they put them aside, it really does amaze me.

If you have the mental strength, you can train and become even better than your last fight. If you are lacking that trait , then you can kiss your career goodbye.
How can you train yourself to get over the adversities that come with boxing, and learn to move on..
Look at Hatton.He is a prime example, or Prince Nasseem., albeit he did have 1 fight after his 1st loss got handed to him.

What are your thoughts?
This sport is definitely not for anybody.

[ipswich express]

Both the fighters you have mentioned only lost to all time greats. But I get your point.

[JOSEY WALES]

I don't really see your point regarding Hatton unless you are saying after getting KTFO v Mayweather he had the mental toughness to return v Pac , if that is the case then fair enough he did show a mental toughness to climb back through the ropes , i do 100% agree with you on this sport not being for everyone though .

Good Thread mate ...

[WhataRock]

Its not the fighters faults entirely...The culture of boxing these days has changed a lot.

Back in the day a loss meant nothing..a ko loss wasnt even a big deal. You dealt with it, learnt from it and moved on.

But in an age where fans and networks are so fickle, where fighters train 3-4 months to fight twice in a year, where the emphasis is about keeping the 0..there can be no room for a bad night, a fluke or a mishap .

Yes some fighters just cant take the loss mentally, its certainly not nice and it certainly cant be nice for the egos that some fighters have and need to have to take a hit like that...but even if a fighter can mentally deal with it these days..the powers at be can not tolerate failure and a fighter may never be able to get back the heights they were once at, even if mentally and physically they are able to...A loss in the modern era is like leprosy, no fighter wants it, they avoid risks that may lead to it and no network boss wants to touch a tainted fighter.

[ranser]

Its not the fighters faults entirely...The culture of boxing these days has changed a lot.

Back in the day a loss meant nothing..a ko loss wasnt even a big deal. You dealt with it, learnt from it and moved on.

But in an age where fans and networks are so fickle, where fighters train 3-4 months to fight twice in a year, where the emphasis is about keeping the 0..there can be no room for a bad night, a fluke or a mishap .

Yes some fighters just cant take the loss mentally, its certainly not nice and it certainly cant be nice for the egos that some fighters have and need to have to take a hit like that...but even if a fighter can mentally deal with it these days..the powers at be can not tolerate failure and a fighter may never be able to get back the heights they were once at, even if mentally and physically they are able to...A loss in the modern era is like leprosy, no fighter wants it, they avoid risks that may lead to it and no network boss wants to touch a tainted fighter.

yea it is pretty sad that a boxer's ultimate goal is to have an unblemished record for marketing purposes, and therefore will not take any risks.

Going back to my initial point, I know if I suffered an injury such as a broken nose or broken jaw,I'd find it hard to get back into the sport, and I know of other cases where boxers have left the sport because of severe injuries they have suffered, whereas others in the same situation would continue regardless of what injuries they suffer.

[PorkChopExpress]

I think alot of it has to do with the kind of athlete you are - you are either a results orientated athlete or a skills orientated athlete. The first fights opponents for wins and record - money and recognition etc, they are athletes for competition.

The other fights internally with themself to be the best. They pick and pick and pick away at their skills until they perfect them. The struggle is with themselves to be the best they can be, not necessarily better than someone else.

[bez]

This pork chop dude is some kind of visionary.

[Phil Austin]

Its not the fighters faults entirely...The culture of boxing these days has changed a lot.

Back in the day a loss meant nothing..a ko loss wasnt even a big deal. You dealt with it, learnt from it and moved on.

But in an age where fans and networks are so fickle, where fighters train 3-4 months to fight twice in a year, where the emphasis is about keeping the 0..there can be no room for a bad night, a fluke or a mishap .

Yes some fighters just cant take the loss mentally, its certainly not nice and it certainly cant be nice for the egos that some fighters have and need to have to take a hit like that...but even if a fighter can mentally deal with it these days..the powers at be can not tolerate failure and a fighter may never be able to get back the heights they were once at, even if mentally and physically they are able to...A loss in the modern era is like leprosy, no fighter wants it, they avoid risks that may lead to it and no network boss wants to touch a tainted fighter.

One of the very best posts ever! Blame the US TV network that looked after the '84 Olympians for starting this trend...

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Good posts, Rock & Pork Chop in particular.

The times are certainly well gone where a 'respectable' defeat was nothing to be ashamed of.

The 'protecting the zero' syndrome is very damaging to boxing as it strongly encourages mismatches, and Australian boxing has been as effected by it just as badly as everywhere else in the world.

There were many great champs who started with early losses on their records, and in some cases multiple ones. Sadly these days, those same guys may not have been granted second chances.

[roscoe]

Ask Kelly Pavlik right now. I think he's definately soul searching in the way Bhop schooled him. Meldrick Taylor was never the same fighter after losing to the tko to chavez. In saying that though I think thats what seperates the good fighters from the great ones. All the greats had to soul search after their initial loss & come back stronger.

[ipswich express]

Actually Taylor managed a good win against Aaron Superman Davis after Chavez. IMO, just as much to blame was Terry Norris giving him an absolute arse kicking at catchweight.

[roscoe]

I think it shows Ippy that Taylor was a great fighter to comeback & beat Davis but the Chavez loss haunted him for most of the later of his career. One wonders what he could have become had he survived the remaining 2 secs & got the decision.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Remember how well Zab Judah 'accepted' his first loss (against Kostya) - went off his scone! Would not believe it, and was more intent on assaulting the referee than congratulating Kostya on the win.

...did win 7 of his next 8 fights though.

[Farmboxer]

More mental. I have seen boxers go distance against superior boxers because of their mental toughness.

[boxoncottonon]

Mental toughness is all in the mind.....over rated.

If you a physically at your peak in the ring then it is one less thing eating away at you come fight nite.
Hours of training driven by the the thought that %90 of the fight is gonna be won in the later rounds indirectly adds to menatal toughness.
Train hard, fight easy.

[ranser]

Mental toughness is all in the mind.....over rated.

If you a physically at your peak in the ring then it is one less thing eating away at you come fight nite.
Hours of training driven by the the thought that %90 of the fight is gonna be won in the later rounds indirectly adds to menatal toughness.
Train hard, fight easy.


sometimes if your in the ring, and getting hit, you can ask yourself, should I just give up or can I keep going ,cop it and then eventually I can break his will by standing up to this man.

[atigerofold]

Great trainers should train to a system, of skill and fitness and healthy psychology or brain.
The preparation for fighting difficult fighters is mostly helped by excellent sparring partners, and gym evaluation. If the gym you train at has an atmosphere of success and previously good direction, then this is in your favour.

Losing any fight needs to be managed; a good boxing trainer CAN definitely lift you from your demonstration of poor skills on a bad night, and can resurrect your skills, or pump up your motivation to go on, or to rematch. This is a definite.

Boxing does not really figure in gauged treatment by professional psychiatrists or sports psychologists; valuable lessons, loyalty, strenght of unity, advice from gym-mates and colleagues seem to emulate a type of sports psychology. The trainer plays an important part in preparing a winning stage for his protege....." there is the grail son, you are skilled enough and keen enough to win it, so go do it !" etc.....

I never trained at a gym where people got beaten regularly....so I cannot comment on the typical boxer who might lose every second fight.

A good fight trainer will evaluate his champion, and perhaps realise, that the fight his boy just lost was a hic-cup, and that losing on the night could have been just a small fark up in mentality, motivation, or purely failing to apply technique to circumstance.

[atigerofold]

I am probably talking to myself here; my comments above were about the mental support that a boxer gets from his trainer and gym mates, regarding poor performance or the prospect of rematches due to losses, etc.......

i was thinking deeper about this today, and I was thinking about a boxer or fighter who gets really nailed and has to make "survival" decisions.......whilst he is making these decisions his "environment" seems to be caving in, the opponent sees the peril you might be in and is going for broke to buckle you to the floor; what to do? Your brain is suffering trauma, and during your wobbles a sickly dense cloud is forming, you fear that floor below you might suddenly rise up, grab you and drag you down to be counted out; your fight or flight gene comes to the rescue, not only because of animal instinct but because of boxing training. Who will do the evaluation here, of whether it is smarter to back off and fight another round later, or continue and slog it out (with a greater disadvantage than your opponent)

Is the ability to do a sensible retreat mental toughness ? Some punters would interpret this as showing a physical weakness. And there in lies the problem with the question you ask....if you are fighting to survive a near knockdown, then mental toughness would take on the role of what the brain is for - intelligence, and the physical retreat would follow.

I seriously think that Boxing is not about one or the other, it is about both......if boxing was just about mental toughness (stalwart intelligence), then boxers would stand in centre ring for all of the rounds and try to stare each other out.......:nut

[flamengo]

I am probably talking to myself here; my comments above were about the mental support that a boxer gets from his trainer and gym mates, regarding poor performance or the prospect of rematches due to losses, etc.......

i was thinking deeper about this today, and I was thinking about a boxer or fighter who gets really nailed and has to make "survival" decisions.......whilst he is making these decisions his "environment" seems to be caving in, the opponent sees the peril you might be in and is going for broke to buckle you to the floor; what to do? Your brain is suffering trauma, and during your wobbles a sickly dense cloud is forming, you fear that floor below you might suddenly rise up, grab you and drag you down to be counted out; your fight or flight gene comes to the rescue, not only because of animal instinct but because of boxing training. Who will do the evaluation here, of whether it is smarter to back off and fight another round later, or continue and slog it out (with a greater disadvantage than your opponent)

Is the ability to do a sensible retreat mental toughness ? Some punters would interpret this as showing a physical weakness. And there in lies the problem with the question you ask....if you are fighting to survive a near knockdown, then mental toughness would take on the role of what the brain is for - intelligence, and the physical retreat would follow.

I seriously think that Boxing is not about one or the other, it is about both......if boxing was just about mental toughness (stalwart intelligence), then boxers would stand in centre ring for all of the rounds and try to stare each other out.......:nut


Some relative decisions are obviously instinctively based.. Steven Marks, anytime he appeared hurt he'd go for broke, mixing it in a game of 'finsh me if you can'.. Always taking the fight up to the opponent when hurt.
Lester appeared no different. Feeling the effects when hit, he turn the fireworks on, going for broke. Trotter used his feet, circling and evading, catching and rolling. Craig never appeared momentarily concussed.. never lost his cool or sacrificed defense for heroics. There's no set pattern overall I guess.. just individual instincts that come to light at the moment of mental trauma.

[atigerofold]

Well described mate; regardless of the instinct of a fighter to fight or flight, the mental toughness is their in both... with the physical toughness.

I think the efforts to step up to the block anytime is a tremendous mental toughness; thinking in these lines, and talking of Steven Marks, when he fought and won the Auz championship.....now there is mental toughness, a young fellow who had recently lost his trainer Mick Canavan, then trying to pull it all together mentally before taking on that fight, and training like a robotic trojan, taking a mindset to win (for Mick) as though all of his life depended upon it (and with Kanoy he was probably accurate in thinking this way) then the fight out with hardnut Dindo Kanoy, and destrroying Kanoy with dynamic brilliant left jabs.....nearly took Dindo's head off. If you were looking for a documentary on mental toughness, Steve's preparation and championship would serve it to the letter. And, I was very privileged to be in his corner.

[goodnight]

need one to have the other in my opinion,

but metal toughness moreso - the isolation when training down to the fortitude to push yourself when its going bad in the ring.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Hey Tiger, did you hear Richo's retired?

Apparently the brain was still willing but the aging body's just plain had enough.

They might struggle to finish their usual 9th without him.

[atigerofold]

Yes I received the text message from a clubman about Richo...........I knew before the press did. I have a love hate regard for Richo.

Points towards Richo in his career......

No one in recent sides of the Richmond Club has shown as much valour
No one in the recent sides of Richmond has kicked more goals
No one in the side has taken as many marks
He is a fabulous clubman

BUUUUUUTTTT !! (Points against Richo)

For many years he was a reknowned "fuck up freddy" (dropping marks, and not kicking imporant match winning goals)

For too many years, that ball "had" to be kicked to him; because it was written into Richmond's code that he was the forward target to kick to.....therefore no one else kicked goals....because Richo demanded the ball be kicked to him - this was the game play.

For too many years, he created disunity amongst team mates with him pulling faces, and screaming, and spitting the dummy everytime he made a dashing lead and his team mates kicked the ball into a different direction or game play.

Conclusion:

His dad Bull Richardson was a better footballer, who invented the forty metre handball from the centre square to Centre Half forward, and who "involved" all other Richmond players and champions into the game....which is why we were so successful back then, and who could forget the great Royce Hart.....our living legend (I bow in the direction of Punt Road Oval and genuflect in his honour, as I say his holy, holy name)

Sad to say, I think us tigers have at least another ten or twelve years to go to climb to a higher perch and to try and win a premiership.....a shorter summary is: we are farking hopeless ! I have stopped going to the footy, as too many players look up at that replay video board at the grounds when they have accidently engaged in a bit of football play, and they immediately look up at their replay video, and push their hair in the right direction to make sure that their hair is looking good...just farkin girls....too many there for the glamour, pay and no regard,

Please someone up their in Tiger Heaven send us another Royce Hart!

[rusty nails]

i think one factor is the fighters opinion of themselves before a loss.

If they truly belive theyre the greatest fighter in the world and no one can touch them a loss will bring them down further and hurt their psyche much more (Tyson, Foreman, Fenech, Nunn, Judah) for example.
Where as guys like guys like gatti, lovemore ndou, Glen Johnson know theyre NOT the best fighters but they also know that they are damn tough and can give the elite problems.. so a loss for them is only like "oh well I wasnt supposed to win anyway but i had a crack, Life goes on"

[aaron]

Its more mental than physical. Most fighters can reach an astounding level of conditioning with hard training, but the Mental is what will leave you standing at the end. If you are not in the right state of mind on fight night, you are in for the longest night of your life.

Some bounce back, some dont. If you jump in the ring thinking "How the fuck am I going to win? This is impossible!" then you are probably right.

"Whether you think you can or you cant, you are probably right"

[Rodin]

Interesting stuff.

On the british Prizefighter last night, Darren Corbett decked Mickey Steeds.
He hit him so hard he went cross-eyed before he dropped to his knees with his head through the ropes & facing the officials.
He recovered to fight on but over 3 rounds, a 10-8 is a killer & he lost the decision.
Man, that bloke had a heart as big as Ularu.
All the things that have been proposed here.

[flamengo]

Well described mate; regardless of the instinct of a fighter to fight or flight, the mental toughness is their in both... with the physical toughness.

I think the efforts to step up to the block anytime is a tremendous mental toughness; thinking in these lines, and talking of Steven Marks, when he fought and won the Auz championship.....now there is mental toughness, a young fellow who had recently lost his trainer Mick Canavan, then trying to pull it all together mentally before taking on that fight, and training like a robotic trojan, taking a mindset to win (for Mick) as though all of his life depended upon it (and with Kanoy he was probably accurate in thinking this way) then the fight out with hardnut Dindo Kanoy, and destrroying Kanoy with dynamic brilliant left jabs.....nearly took Dindo's head off. If you were looking for a documentary on mental toughness, Steve's preparation and championship would serve it to the letter. And, I was very privileged to be in his corner.

Hey, I can't even find one, and you want me to bring back a colour one!


HMMMMM... I wonder how much a can of paint costs in China??

[Rodin]

HMMMMM... I wonder how much a can of paint costs in China??



About [Only registered and activated users can see links] and [Only registered and activated users can see links] pence :D

[PIPO23]

It comes down to talent, mental does help but the truth is if you dont have the heart and skillz you will never get far.

[bez]

mental

[flamengo]

It comes down to talent, mental does help but the truth is if you dont have the heart and skillz you will never get far.


Oh.... Mental plus talent then. Ok. :hi:

[Big Fish]

50-50 baby

[atigerofold]

Is it fair to apportion, this trophy of "mental" strength to those fighters who have their brains in their arce and do not defend themselves?

Is it fair to talk down the physical strength of a boxer who is superfit, not that strong (aka muscled up) and evades and escapes getting tagged regularly?

We need some definition of a rating here when we talk about mental and physical toughness or ability.......

I think another question that is being asked here, is about a boxer/fighter "stepping up onto the block" - at any time, ready to accept a dangerous challenge, ready to test himself bravely against what many might consider a dangerous match.......will that man
prevail on mental toughness or physical toughness?????

The answer here, really, is (d) NONE OF THE ABOVE. What makes fighters/boxers win fights boils down to Knowledge and Skill - knowledge (intelligence) to assess the circumstances and apply a solution, and his physical ability (not always about strength or toughness) to carry out that solution.

Want to see if you have Mental toughness? Then try this.....look into a mirror at yourself, stare at yourself, growl at yourself till your eyeballs are nearly popping out, the first to look away is a weak pussy.

[ranser]

Is it fair to apportion, this trophy of "mental" strength to those fighters who have their brains in their arce and do not defend themselves?

Is it fair to talk down the physical strength of a boxer who is superfit, not that strong (aka muscled up) and evades and escapes getting tagged regularly?

We need some definition of a rating here when we talk about mental and physical toughness or ability.......

I think another question that is being asked here, is about a boxer/fighter "stepping up onto the block" - at any time, ready to accept a dangerous challenge, ready to test himself bravely against what many might consider a dangerous match.......will that man
prevail on mental toughness or physical toughness?????

The answer here, really, is (d) NONE OF THE ABOVE. What makes fighters/boxers win fights boils down to Knowledge and Skill - knowledge (intelligence) to assess the circumstances and apply a solution, and his physical ability (not always about strength or toughness) to carry out that solution.

Want to see if you have Mental toughness? Then try this.....look into a mirror at yourself, stare at yourself, growl at yourself till your eyeballs are nearly popping out, the first to look away is a weak pussy.

thats an interesting assessement. :D

[atigerofold]

After you have failed that mirror test, grab a brick from somewhere, throw it up into the sky and stand under where it falls; as it hits your head, grimmace with the pain - that is in the rules and ok, but you mustn't cry, nor go to the doctor to get any gashes stitched, or to a psychiatrist to get some counselling.....

I have seen some mental giants in gyms over the years, hitting themselves in the face with their own fists........pushing the heavy bag away and let it swing back to hit their heads, wow is this the mental toughness we are thinking about? ( or is it the mental toughness of a knuckle head.)

There is a crazy movie out there called - " ? " (name escapes me now - "odd ball dumbfarkers" or something of that genre...) these crazy Americans do stupid things......like branding themselves with a glowing red iron......Now do these blokes show a mental toughness or mental craziness?

The mental toughness of a boxer is to show intelligence, forethought, make tough decisions, work his way out of a problem, etc. etc.

This is sending me mad this thread.....maybe I was already mad.

[Rise Above]

After you have failed that mirror test, grab a brick from somewhere, throw it up into the sky and stand under where it falls; as it hits your head, grimmace with the pain - that is in the rules and ok, but you mustn't cry, nor go to the doctor to get any gashes stitched, or to a psychiatrist to get some counselling.....

I have seen some mental giants in gyms over the years, hitting themselves in the face with their own fists........pushing the heavy bag away and let it swing back to hit their heads, wow is this the mental toughness we are thinking about? ( or is it the mental toughness of a knuckle head.)

There is a crazy movie out there called - " ? " (name escapes me now - "odd ball dumbfarkers" or something of that genre...) these crazy Americans do stupid things......like branding themselves with a glowing red iron......Now do these blokes show a mental toughness or mental craziness?

The mental toughness of a boxer is to show intelligence, forethought, make tough decisions, work his way out of a problem, etc. etc.

This is sending me mad this thread.....maybe I was already mad.


:lol:

Great post.

[ranser]

After you have failed that mirror test, grab a brick from somewhere, throw it up into the sky and stand under where it falls; as it hits your head, grimmace with the pain - that is in the rules and ok, but you mustn't cry, nor go to the doctor to get any gashes stitched, or to a psychiatrist to get some counselling.....

I have seen some mental giants in gyms over the years, hitting themselves in the face with their own fists........pushing the heavy bag away and let it swing back to hit their heads, wow is this the mental toughness we are thinking about? ( or is it the mental toughness of a knuckle head.)

There is a crazy movie out there called - " ? " (name escapes me now - "odd ball dumbfarkers" or something of that genre...) these crazy Americans do stupid things......like branding themselves with a glowing red iron......Now do these blokes show a mental toughness or mental craziness?

The mental toughness of a boxer is to show intelligence, forethought, make tough decisions, work his way out of a problem, etc. etc.

This is sending me mad this thread.....maybe I was already mad.

aren't you talking about those japanese extreme game shows?:D

[flamengo]

After you have failed that mirror test, grab a brick from somewhere, throw it up into the sky and stand under where it falls; as it hits your head, grimmace with the pain - that is in the rules and ok, but you mustn't cry, nor go to the doctor to get any gashes stitched, or to a psychiatrist to get some counselling.....

I have seen some mental giants in gyms over the years, hitting themselves in the face with their own fists........pushing the heavy bag away and let it swing back to hit their heads, wow is this the mental toughness we are thinking about? ( or is it the mental toughness of a knuckle head.)

There is a crazy movie out there called - " ? " (name escapes me now - "odd ball dumbfarkers" or something of that genre...) these crazy Americans do stupid things......like branding themselves with a glowing red iron......Now do these blokes show a mental toughness or mental craziness?

The mental toughness of a boxer is to show intelligence, forethought, make tough decisions, work his way out of a problem, etc. etc.

This is sending me mad this thread.....maybe I was already mad.


Mental will power against an inanimate object.. I.E.. Slamming a brick into your own forehead is barely circumstance in comparison to a fighters will...

1. The dill about to slap himself with the brick (I tried it this arvo.) reatains full control of velocity and impact!!! Yes, it bloddy hurt.. so much that I cant spell bloddy anymore... Burning a cigarette into an eye ball.. that hurt also!! Both eyes were blackened after the Brick incident...


2. Applying the mental will to conquer an indirect force, a force at its own will.. I.E another fighter, whilst in severely undermined focus due to the effect of the opponents blows to body, head or both, is a far greater test of mental toughness or fortitude than simply saying.. Pass me another Brick... Fighting against the stronger resistence, willing ones self back from the depths and aspiring to Whoop some Ass in return... Its a shame Bricks dont have the same attitude..

Brick 1 - Flamengo 0.

[atigerofold]

You should have done the "growling in the mirror at yourself until your eyes pop out", test before that brick test Flamengo, you need that competency first (before tackling the brick test).

When I did my brick test it affected my speech, and I asked my mum : "Kanya cake me a trup of tree, an I'zll feel buch metter" . She walked outside and bought me back in a pot plant, which I drank out of courtesy anyway.

[flamengo]

You should have done the "growling in the mirror at yourself until your eyes pop out", test before that brick test Flamengo, you need that competency first (before tackling the brick test).

When I did my brick test it affected my speech, and I asked my mum : "Kanya cake me a trup of tree, an I'zll feel buch metter" . She walked outside and bought me back in a pot plant, which I drank out of courtesy anyway.


If a Cactus was growing in the pot.. would that be a far superior test of will??? In comparison to the mirror, or brick test... Im running out of Bricks mate...

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

...Want to see if you have Mental toughness? Then try this.....look into a mirror at yourself, stare at yourself, growl at yourself till your eyeballs are nearly popping out, the first to look away is a weak pussy.

Put myself to the test Tiger. Reckon we both quit at pretty much the same time. But I'm up for a rematch any time he is!

Seriously though, the stare is a handy 'weapon'. Had a serious run-in with my boss just recently after he accused me of some b/s stuff. Just stared right through him at least 3 times during the course of the argument and it made a big difference in the outcome (he gave plenty back too mind you).

Once someone sees you are determined & not to be f---ed with the game can change dramatically!

[atigerofold]

Ranser: "aren't you talking about those japanese extreme game shows?"

Just hit myself on the head with a brick a few times, and I pushed that memory cell right into action.....those dudes were from the "Jackass" movies one and two.....wild, outlandish and crazy stuff.