George Foreman vs Jerry Quarry

[ChrisPontius]

How do you see this one going down, prime vs prime or in '72/'73. Quarry in his prime had a good counter punching style which might work very well against Foreman, but then again, his power and strength may well be too much, as Frazier's was for Quarry.

Foreman did state that he didn't want to fight Quarry, but he said the same about Frazier & Norton.

[mcvey]

How do you see this one going down, prime vs prime or in '72/'73. Quarry in his prime had a good counter punching style which might work very well against Foreman, but then again, his power and strength may well be too much, as Frazier's was for Quarry.

Foreman did state that he didn't want to fight Quarry, but he said the same about Frazier & Norton.
Id give the edge to Foreman because of his physical advantages,I know Quarry beat some good big men like Lyle and Foster,but george is their superior for power and strength,Jerry would do well early,he had good handspeed and could make Foreman look plodding and predictable ,but around the 9th George would start to dominate,plus I think Foremans jab would be a factor in controlling Quarry at range,defensively Foreman looked crude,his gloves up taking punches on them like a catchers mitt,but he was effective.Foreman by late stoppage due to cuts.

[mr. magoo]

I have the utmost resect for Quarry, but I can't give him much of a chance against Foreman. Quarry's swarming attempt against Shavers wouldn't work on a much more durable Foreman, and nor would he be able to box with George as he did against Patterson and Lyle. George would hit Quarry hard and early. Jerry had the tendency to box from mid to close range and this would play right into Foreman's hands.

Prediction: Foreman by KO between rounds 3-5.

[JohnThomas1]

Foreman KO4. He's going to land his share and his chin saves him from the Shavers type scenario.

[Longhhorn71]

Gil Clancy was trainer to both of them.

It would be interesting to hear Gil's opinion.

Supposedly Quarry was to get a title shot at Foreman after his victory over Shavers in late 1973, but Foreman signed to fight Ali in the Fall of 1974.

Quarry ended up having a return fight with Joe Frazier in June of 1974, got beat, and was never really ever the same thereafter.

However, a fight with Quarry in June might have helped Foreman immensely for an Ali fight in Fall 1974.

Quarry was very tough, would have hit Foreman back, and might have exposed some of Foreman's so-called conditioning problems.

I see Foreman winning in 7 rounds by TKO, with Jerry still on his feet.

George would have then defeated Frazier, Norton, & Quarry...all top heavyweights......and maybe had corrected his all out-early attack conditioning problem that hurt him so much against Ali.

[Bummy Davis]

Quarry had a good chin and was very successful vs the Big Slow punchers, I saw him KO Big Mac Foster 24-0 24KO's, Earnie Shavers, Joe Alexander, Thad Spencer, Ron Lyle and they all had one thing in common, hard punchers with no stamina, George Foreman hit as hard as Shavers but was slow and tired after 5 rounds or less, Quarry could take a shot and was never down vs Frazier, the 1st fight was even until Fraziers stamina took over. Quarry was also eratic when young but improved under Gil Clancy. On a good night the Quarry of the Lyle,Shavers and Foster fight had a good chance of stopping George, just a matter of styles but I liked QUARRY BIG VS fOREMAN FOR AN UPSET and George was very protected leading to the Frazier fight and his record was very padded

[Ted Stickles]

George stops him in 2 ...Quarry was always too brave for his own good

[Duodenum]

Leroy Caldwell made it very clear that Foreman and Lyle hit about the same, with Shavers hitting harder than both put together.

Foreman had sparred with Jerry, got knocked on his keister, and wanted no part of Quarry in the ring afterwards, especially when Peralta proved that Jerry had the size and strength necessary to make George give ground. After some of his early televised wins, Foreman was asked about taking on Quarry next. His trepidation at the idea of facing Jerry was far more evident than Liston's was after beating Henry Clark.

George was just the sort of big easy target Quarry feasted on, and both knew it. At Jerry's best, NOBODY of his era could blow him out quickly, and Quarry favored the same mid range distance the much slower Foreman preferred.

Jerry had speed, quickness, lower center of gravity, mobility and experience over Big George. Yes, Foreman said he was afraid of both Frazier and Norton, but actions speak louder than words, and his defense against Roman in Tokyo is Exhibit A that he is telling the truth about avoiding Jerry.

However, a Quarry dethroning of Foreman would have been a disaster for boxing. As popular as Jerry was, nobody would have accepted him as any more than a transitional champion with Ali waiting in the wings. The result of a Quarry challenge to Foreman would have established Ali was the best heavyweight in the division.

Still, Quarry would have probably made an inaugural title defense against Chuvalo, if only to get back at the Canadian Champ for that ignominiously galling earlier defeat. Then, take on Frazier. That bout would have determined who Muhammad got to dethrone to regain his title. (I believe Ali and Herbert Muhammad would have been willing to wait until sufficient interest was generated in Ali's recrowning to allow for such a delay to promote a lucrative buildup, probably rooting for Frazier to regain the title, given the one sided nature of Ali's last win over Jerry.)

[JohnThomas1]

Leroy Caldwell made it very clear that Foreman and Lyle hit about the same, with Shavers hitting harder than both put together.


Scott Le Doux said Greg Page hit him harder than Foreman, Lyle, Norton, Weaver and Holmes. Should we just take that at face value and treat it as gospel?

I learnt very early to take most things boxers say about one another with a grain of salt. There is often a very strong element of doubt. Some is entirely true, others not.

[mr. magoo]

[quote=Duodenum]Leroy Caldwell made it very clear that Foreman and Lyle hit about the same, with Shavers hitting harder than both put together.


I don't know about that Deen.

[JohnThomas1]

[quote]


I don't know about that Deen.

If so i think we might have been seeing a Cole/Dr. Malcolm Crowe situation myself.

[My dinner with Conteh]

I have the utmost resect for Quarry, but I can't give him much of a chance against Foreman. Quarry's swarming attempt against Shavers wouldn't work on a much more durable Foreman, and nor would he be able to box with George as he did against Patterson and Lyle. George would hit Quarry hard and early. Jerry had the tendency to box from mid to close range and this would play right into Foreman's hands.

Prediction: Foreman by KO between rounds 3-5.


I'm with you here. Quarry does have the skills to pose more problems for George than Fraizier but losing the big one seemed to haunt him. Foreman 5th round stoppage, after a shaky few moments in round 3.

[Duodenum]

Scott Le Doux said Greg Page hit him harder than Foreman, Lyle, Norton, Weaver and Holmes. Should we just take that at face value and treat it as gospel?LeDoux may well have been telling the truth, but Earnie's name is not among those on Scott's record. Another point that needs to be mentioned concerns how fast Page was (if "not that quick," as Stan Ward puts it). Foreman was comebacking from the Ali defeat, at a time when Gil Clancy was changing George's former free swinging style. (This has been suggested by some as a key reason why a shot Frazier was able to last longer in his rematch with Foreman.) It also doesn't matter how hard somebody throws, if he's so slow, and telegraphs so much that the punch fails to land with full impact, or in the right spot. It has been suggested that Cleveland Williams was a harder puncher than Sonny Liston, but the Big Cat never was able to connect solidly on Ali, so Muhammad can never compare his power to that of Liston, Foreman or Shavers. (All the better, as "You're NOT supposed to get HIT!"-Billy Conn.)

Lyle was 38 years old when he broke up arguably the best undefeated streak of LeDoux's career. He came off the deck early to wobble LeDoux repeatedly (and get wobbled over and over by Scott himself), but was clearly faded, and had to settle for a split decision (as I recall).

Norton outboxed LeDoux handily, and should have taken the decision, but fortunately for Scott, it was in Bloomington, so he got the hometown draw. In that match, Kenny repeated banged LeDoux's midsection with his fine hook (one of the better displays of boxing skill in Norton's career), but Ken's reputation for power has been severely inflated by having broken Ali's jaw. (Due to some dental care negligence on Ali's part.) Norton did take Duane Bobick out quickly, but Bobick was a notoriously slow starter who was stunned early, then stood up to an awful lot of bombs from Ken before finally falling, in their 58 seconds of action. Norton was a very respectable puncher, but by no means a great one. The only clean single punch knockout I ever saw him score was against cruiserweight Randy Stephens, on the Holmes/Evangelista undercard (ironically, the only clean one punch kayo I ever saw Holmes record).

Mike Weaver jabbed his way to a 12 round points verdict over LeDoux. Scott made the mistake of wearing leather soled shoes in the ring, and then all the resin was swept off of the floor before the bout began. This prevented LeDoux from getting any solid traction on the ring surface, and Weaver took advantage accordingly. While LeDoux has blamed the poor footing for his performance, it may also be responsible for his surviving 12 rounds, as getting his feet firmly planted may have given Weaver a chance to connect on him solidly.

Finally, we have Holmes. While Larry is in my top three heavyweights of all time, he was really a pure boxer, not a major puncher. Aside from his uppercut knockdown of Weaver, his right to Evangelista's neck, and the left jab knockdown which finished off Ocasio, there are not a great many highlight clips of individual punches he produced during his career. (Still, Holmes did manage to floor LeDoux using just one finger, "The poke of blinding death!":good) But Scott himself did say immediately after their match that with the exception of getting shook by one good jab, most of the jabs Larry hit him with were of the "flicking variety."I learnt very early to take most things boxers say about one another with a grain of salt. There is often a very strong element of doubt. Some is entirely true, others not.Yes, and that's why a consensus should be sought among those with such experience.

The footage of these various contests makes it clear that Page did indeed hit LeDoux harder than the others you mentioned. Now, how many others agreed with Scott's assessment of Greg's punching power? Furthermore, was this the only shot Page delivered on LeDoux which carried such steam behind it, or did LeDoux report Greg to have struck with hard shots throughout those four rounds?

Regarding Shavers, if only Leroy Caldwell had rated Shavers tops in power, that would be one thing, but when Ali, Holmes, Lyle, Norton and Cobb all agree with Caldwell, how can such a consensus be conveniently dismissed so cavalierly?

[brooklyn1550]

Foreman by TKO

[Duodenum]

[quote]I don't know about that Deen.And that we don't have first hand experience discovering the answer for ourselves may well be the reason we are alive to discuss this topic. (I don't know about you, but if ole' Deen sought to find out the answer to this question by taking punches from all three, the name Deen might have to be changed to "Ding:nut," "Dung:barf," or "Dead:dead.")

[mr. magoo]

[quote=mr. magoo]And that we don't have first hand experience discovering the answer for ourselves may well be the reason we are alive to discuss this topic. (I don't know about you, but if ole' Deen sought to find out the answer to this question by taking punches from all three, the name Deen might have to be changed to "Ding:nut," "Dung:barf," or "Dead:dead.")

Well,

Weather we're talkin' DEEN or ButterBEAN, or the kitchen cleanser Mr. CLEAN, We can be certain of one thing, that all those guys hit hard.

[Duodenum]

Well,

Whether we're talkin' DEEN or ButterBEAN, or the kitchen cleanser Mr. CLEAN, We can be certain of one thing, that all those guys hit hard.And if somebody's rendered unconscious, what difference does it make how hard he was hit, as long as he was Beaned solidly enough? (Now, who do you suppose looked most like Mr. Clean? Beanfart, old George, Shavers, Hagler, or the Frazier of the Foreman rematch? And can you hear how loud those collective groans from the rest of the forum are getting at these gawd awful puns? We could both wind up getting banned if the mods take notice:p.)

Sincerely,

Deen-Bean-Clean-Dung-Dead

[mr. magoo]

And if somebody's rendered unconscious, what difference does it make how hard he was hit, as long as he was Beaned solidly enough? (Now, who do you suppose looked most like Mr. Clean? Beanfart, old George, Shavers, Hagler, or the Frazier of the Foreman rematch? And can you hear how loud those collective groans from the rest of the forum are getting at these gawd awful puns? We could both wind up getting banned if the mods take notice:p.)

Sincerely,

Deen-Bean-Clean-Dung-Dead

I wouldn't worry about us getting REEMED for things that should have been DEEMED as not being what they SEEMED. I think Bean Fart would have had to lose an aweful lot of weight before he looked like Mr. Clean. Frazier in his later years sort of reminded me of the blue thing from the Disney movie Alladin. Foreman was a bit more like a chinese Budda.

At anyrate,

enjoy your Saturday night DEEN.

[Duodenum]

I wouldn't worry about us getting REEMED for things that should have been DEEMED as not being what they SEEMED.:patschNext, we'll be using a thesaurus to cheat on these.I think Bean Fart would have had to lose an awful lot of weight before he looked like Mr. Clean.Yeah, he looks more like the Michelin Man, Pillsbury Doughboy, or King Kong Bundy. (Long lost twins, perhaps?)Frazier in his later years sort of reminded me of the blue thing from the Disney movie Alladin. Foreman was a bit more like a chinese Budda.Well, I now have some idea of what my dreams are going to look like tonight.At anyrate,

enjoy your Saturday night DEEN.And you as well, Bloss Man.:bowdown

[Bummy Davis]

Scott Le Doux said Greg Page hit him harder than Foreman, Lyle, Norton, Weaver and Holmes. Should we just take that at face value and treat it as gospel?

I learnt very early to take most things boxers say about one another with a grain of salt. There is often a very strong element of doubt. Some is entirely true, others not.

Sometime certain fighter can land punches that others can not Jersey Joe Walcott was one of them, Page had a weird right hand that could catch you hard when he was fit, while other fighters telegraph

[JohnThomas1]

Sometime certain fighter can land punches that others can not Jersey Joe Walcott was one of them, Page had a weird right hand that could catch you hard when he was fit, while other fighters telegraph

Yeah, like a bolt of lightning that Super Page right hand really

:D

[Duodenum]

Sometime certain fighter can land punches that others can not Jersey Joe Walcott was one of them, Page had a weird right hand that could catch you hard when he was fit, while other fighters telegraphAbsolutely, and the knockdown Snipes scored on Holmes has been described as an example of that. Until that moment, Renaldo never looked like he could crack an egg, as big and impressive as his physique was. Even Eddie Mustafa Muhammad never took a backward step against him. Yet, after Holmes repelled his challenge, Snipes was also able to drop Berbick in round one. Only the lethal punching Tyson and Mercado, at their very best, were ever able to do anything like that to Berbick.

Hence, my emphasis on wide consensus of opinion from common opponents of Shavers, as measured against his record. What Page did to LeDoux might be argued as an isolated incident, but what Shavers did repeatedly, and was so frequently reported as doing by those he hit, can't be so conveniently dismissed. Yes, when Holmes says Shavers hit him harder than Tyson did, I absolutely believe him, because of the overwhelming preponderance of correlating evidence and testimony.

Although endurance, a great chin and defensive skill are always desirable traits in a boxer, the fact that Shavers had none of these advantages, while Lyle, Foreman, Tyson, Weaver, or Norton all had at least one or more of these qualities, also hints strongly at the supremacy of Earnie's power. (Norton had endurance, George had a chin, Weaver had both, Lyle had skill and some endurance, Tyson still showed a good chin against Lennox, but Shavers usually had none of those advantages.)

[mcvey]

Absolutely, and the knockdown Snipes scored on Holmes has been described as an example of that. Until that moment, Renaldo never looked like he could crack an egg, as big and impressive as his physique was. Even Eddie Mustafa Muhammad never took a backward step against him. Yet, after Holmes repelled his challenge, Snipes was also able to drop Berbick in round one. Only the lethal punching Tyson and Mercado, at their very best, were ever able to do anything like that to Berbick.

Hence, my emphasis on wide consensus of opinion from common opponents of Shavers, as measured against his record. What Page did to LeDoux might be argued as an isolated incident, but what Shavers did repeatedly, and was so frequently reported as doing by those he hit, can't be so conveniently dismissed. Yes, when Holmes says Shavers hit him harder than Tyson did, I absolutely believe him, because of the overwhelming preponderance of correlating evidence and testimony.

Athough endurance, a great chin and defensive skill are always desirable traits in a boxer, the fact that Shavers had none of these advantages, while Lyle, Foreman, Tyson, Weaver, or Norton all had at least one or more of these qualities, also hints strongly at the supremacy of Earnie's power. (Norton had endurance, George had a chin, Weaver had both, Lyle had skill and some endurance, Tyson still showed a good chin against Lennox, but Shavers usually had none of those advantages.)
Certainly to floor Berbick was an acheivment he had a very good chin. I thought the punch that Snipes dropped Holmes with looked very impressive,holmes could be caught with right hands ,but had phenomenal powers of recuperation,who can forget that Shavers right hand? Larry getting up and stamping his foot ,trying to get some feeling in it!

[Duodenum]

Certainly to floor Berbick was an acheivment he had a very good chin. I thought the punch that Snipes dropped Holmes with looked very impressive,holmes could be caught with right hands ,but had phenomenal powers of recuperation,who can forget that Shavers right hand? Larry getting up and stamping his foot ,trying to get some feeling in it!Like everybody else, I couldn't believe what I was seeing when Snipes toppled Larry to the deck. When Shavers and Snipes dropped him, one word flashed through my mind watching the way Holmes crashed down:

"Timbeerrrrrrrr!"

[DocDevil]

Quarry was tough,and wins over Shavers, Foster,Bodell,Lyle etc were impressive.But I watched the Chuvalo fight,Jerry didn't look good then getting counted out against Chuvalo.Never seen the fight since,but i still remember George,when Quarry said it wasn't that good of a punch.Chuvalo standing right there,said{if he couldn't tell nine from ten it musta been a good punch}.Make no mistake Foreman would anhilate Quarry.

[Holmes' Jab]

Foreman TKO6 Quarry. :good

[Blacc Jesus]

Foreman by TKO in 4.

[anut]

I KNOW THEY SPARRED IN 73 IN CALIFORNIA AND QUARRY SAID GEORGE FOREMAN WAS ABSOLUTE POWER....WELL I THINK QUARRY WOULD GET INTO A SLUG FEST WITH GEORGE ANSD LOOSE IN 6 RDS OR LESS IN A BRUTAL BEATING:smoke:smoke:smoke

[The Kurgan]

Scott Le Doux said Greg Page hit him harder than Foreman, Lyle, Norton, Weaver and Holmes. Should we just take that at face value and treat it as gospel?


Yes, because LeDoux was almost certainly telling the truth. HOWEVER, just because Page hit LeDoux harder in their fight than anyone else, it does not follow that Page hit harder than Foreman/Lyle/Norton etc. It just means that the punches Page connected with were harder.

Caldwell might be exaggerating, but the point is clear: the punches Shavers hit Caldwell with were a lot, LOT harder than the punches Foreman hit him with.

[Luigi1985]

Did Holmes every fight Foreman?So how would he know if Shavers punched harder than Foreman?Ali has said Foreman was the hardest puncher he ever faced but he also said Shavers was the hardest puncher he faced and he never mentions Frazier's punching power yet Frazier knocked him down and had him hurt big time and so did Herny Cooper.
Quarry knocked Foreman down?Lol when did this happen?Are you high on something or are just another one of these racist white boys?Foreman was afraid to fight Quarry?Give me a break..Foreman says that now because he always gives praise to other fighters in a attempt to seem nice.Quarry was slow and plodding which is why he was punched in the head so many times he suffered brain damage which is something we cant say for Foreman can we?Foreman was protected and didnt fight anybody early in his career?But Quarry did right?In his 3rd pro fight Foreman fought Wepner a fighter who decked Ali years later with a body shot.Foreman Also fought Peralta 2 times,Chuvalo and a few other top prospects early on his career like Boone Kirland.Go to boxrec.com and check out the guys record.
But anyway Quarry would be destroye in a couple of rounds.

Are you stupid or what? In every post, I read another thing about "being white" and all that. Why do you post here than? Search for a forum where only black people are allowed to write, you little dumbass, damn, I hate those kiddies who always play the cyberbully, in reality you´re probably a skinny, ugly, pimply, frustated and stupid gay, get the fuck out of here...

[Luigi1985]

Dave Krieg is a faggot. Foreman fought 17 guys out of 37 with losing records before he fought Frazier. So what if Wepner knocked down Ali? He was a bum.


You know, there´s a difference between just making fun sometimes (for me personally it´s better) and what he does. Look also what he writes about the fighters, "Quarry was slow", etc...


:patsch

[Longhhorn71]

I like both George and Quarry.

When George was training / fighting at the Olympics, Quarry was fighting in the WBA Hvywt tourney....Jerry was about 4 years ahead of George as a pro.
If they had sparred during that time it is not surprisiing Quarry might have come out on top.

But the window of Jan 1974 -June 1974 we are talking a different story.
Quarry should have got a shot at George after beating Shavers, but they gave him Frazier in June which was a bad matchup for him.

George gets the standard "TV" fight against Roman, then crushes Norton who many people thought beat Ali the second time.

The public wanted Ali-Foreman next.

If George had fought Quarry, Foreman would have been at the top of his game.

George is just too big and powerful....with 3 inches in height and 10 inches or so in reach advantages.

George in 5 rds....with Quarry trapped on the ropes when the ref stops it.