Vitali Klitschko vs. Muhammad Ali

[KOTF]

Let's see if this thread can go 80 pages.

[lefthook89]

ali by a wide UD with VK's face beaten and battered beyond recognition, due to ali's high work rate, accurate punches and amazing footwork.

[clark]

I'll say Ali takes him out by the 10th or 11th round.

[djanders]

As much as I respect Vitali Klitschko, he's not in Joe Louis' class and he is not in Muhammad Ali's class. Joe and Muhammad are both on an entirely different level. I'm voting for Ali by KO/TKO.

[he grant]

Ali by TKO in 9 .

[Boro chris]

Should be in the general forum. Much more entertaining.:D

Any way. Ali spanks him like a red haired Ernie Terrell.

[PetethePrince]

I like you but you're getting greedy now.

[Rubber Warrior]

The Vitali we saw a month ago would be a complicated assignment. Ali's movement and straight punches would make the difference in a very tight, ugly and closely-contested unanimous decision victory. Nobody would look good in this one, with Ali only looking slightly less worse than Vitali. I think if anything Ali would need to find a way to trick Vitali into doing most if not all of the leading if he wanted the judges to really see it his way.

[mrbassie]

Ali-tko-cuts.

To the op, if you want to see how many pages you can get then post it on the GF: you're guaranteed thousands of VK ko 1 > Ali replies.

[Woddy]

The correct answer would be Vitali KO's Ali. I can't think of a greater mismatch. Ali is way out of his league in this one.

[My2Sense]

The correct answer would be Vitali KO's Ali. I can't think of a greater mismatch. Ali is way out of his league in this one.

You mean the way Vitali KO'd Chris Byrd in a mismatch in which Byrd was way out of his league?

[TheGreatA]

The only question I have is whether Ali would win a decision or stop Vitali on cuts.

[Tin_Ribs]

You mean the way Vitali KO'd Chris Byrd in a mismatch in which Byrd was way out of his league?

Don't reply. It's like an annoying pest; ignore it and it will go away.

[Woddy]

You mean the way Vitali KO'd Chris Byrd in a mismatch in which Byrd was way out of his league?

Sort of like that yeah. If you want to try and bank on the ods that Vitali will suffer the same exact shoulder injury and quit, then go with Ali.

[lefthook89]

Sort of like that yeah. If you want to try and bank on the ods that Vitali will suffer the same exact shoulder injury and quit, then go with Ali.

yea ur right, ali would beat his face to a bloody mess and vk would get a shoulder injury from throwing so many missed punches, good call:good

[Brit Sillynanny]

Since this isn't the GF and the Klithuggers need more support in getting out the vote here's some hometown help for Vit (it is about Wlad but it is nearly the same thing really <g>). More than a few good GF type points to get the ball rolling ...

Vladimir Klitschko much better than Muhammad Ali

I really love boxing. This was huge sport in Soviet Union. My friend from army was name Yuri. We both went to army together as young boys to be trained as infantry. Because our schooling was in mechanics, we were spared ground duty in Afghanastan. Instead we spent long hours on base in very hot weather working on ground vehicles. Many hours we spent talking about sports and our favorites were always boxing. Olympic boxing was so much better during days of Soviet Union compared to now. Then, they fought hard and well. Today, too much padding around head and no more knockouts. Best matchups were always against Americans. Almost always, Soviet Union won but not all the time. Gold medal in boxing always mean becoming huge hero in Soviet Union. Klitschko and Ali have many similarities. Both were considered best of their time. Both win gold medals in Olympics. And both are huge heros in their countries. Klitschko has many homes all over but he will always be Soviet Union to me. His father was important man in army but I did not know him. Klitschko is much taller than Ali and that gives him big advantage over the smaller Ali. Klitschko also much smarter and would find a way to beat Ali. Ali was not that smart. Unlike Klitschko, he never got doctor degree. Ali did not even pass army test and then refused to go into army because of Vietnam. I don't agree with not fighting for your country. In Soviet Union, this is act of traitor. People just didn't do this. They go to work camp and never seen again. Yuri hated army but I didn't mind because I was doing my best for Soviet Union. Klitschko is in military family and I like that very much. This makes man stronger in ring. Ali boxed much to long. His last fight was big news in Soviet Union because he was nearly killed. Now he is sick and old. I liked very much how Ali used to talk but it is sad to listen to him now. Even though I did not agree with Ali on war, I understood his big fear of fighting. Not all men can fight in army. I must make it clear that I did not fight in Afghanastan. I had a weapon but never fired it. Instead I worked on cars and trucks for soldiers. I always did my best because they were brave and needed my best work to fight against enemy. It is funny to me that Americans used to hate Soviet Union for fighting in Afghanastan. Huge misunderstanding. Taliban was never freedom fighters like Americans wanted to believe back than. Now America understands that they were terrorists but it is sadly to late. Soviet Union was never fooled by terrorists like United States was at that time. If two countries worked together instead of cold war, maybe no more terrorists today. We will never know but it is what I think. I remember Yuri telling me that Americans were also in Afghanastan helping our enemy but I never saw any so I did not believe him. Instead we talk about boxing because we did not want to fight over politics that we had no control over anyways. We were different in thinking but best of friends. I don't understand why Vladimir changed his name to Wladimir to sound more German. And he fights to much in Germany. Either fight in America for more money or go and fight in Russia to make people very happy. And maybe also in Ukraine which used to be Soviet Union. I think Klitschko could beat Ali in boxing match but I know for sure he would destroy Ali if he was trained during days of Soviet Union. He is perfect in every way. American media don't give him enough respect because he is from old Soviet Union and not United States. If Klitschko was from USA he would be a big hero here. Everybody would love him.

:D

[lefthook89]

Since this isn't the GF and the Klithuggers need more support in getting out the vote here's some hometown help for Vit (it is about Wlad but it is nearly the same thing really <g>). More than a few good GF type points to get the ball rolling ...

Vladimir Klitschko much better than Muhammad Ali

I really love boxing. This was huge sport in Soviet Union. My friend from army was name Yuri. We both went to army together as young boys to be trained as infantry. Because our schooling was in mechanics, we were spared ground duty in Afghanastan. Instead we spent long hours on base in very hot weather working on ground vehicles. Many hours we spent talking about sports and our favorites were always boxing. Olympic boxing was so much better during days of Soviet Union compared to now. Then, they fought hard and well. Today, too much padding around head and no more knockouts. Best matchups were always against Americans. Almost always, Soviet Union won but not all the time. Gold medal in boxing always mean becoming huge hero in Soviet Union. Klitschko and Ali have many similarities. Both were considered best of their time. Both win gold medals in Olympics. And both are huge heros in their countries. Klitschko has many homes all over but he will always be Soviet Union to me. His father was important man in army but I did not know him. Klitschko is much taller than Ali and that gives him big advantage over the smaller Ali. Klitschko also much smarter and would find a way to beat Ali. Ali was not that smart. Unlike Klitschko, he never got doctor degree. Ali did not even pass army test and then refused to go into army because of Vietnam. I don't agree with not fighting for your country. In Soviet Union, this is act of traitor. People just didn't do this. They go to work camp and never seen again. Yuri hated army but I didn't mind because I was doing my best for Soviet Union. Klitschko is in military family and I like that very much. This makes man stronger in ring. Ali boxed much to long. His last fight was big news in Soviet Union because he was nearly killed. Now he is sick and old. I liked very much how Ali used to talk but it is sad to listen to him now. Even though I did not agree with Ali on war, I understood his big fear of fighting. Not all men can fight in army. I must make it clear that I did not fight in Afghanastan. I had a weapon but never fired it. Instead I worked on cars and trucks for soldiers. I always did my best because they were brave and needed my best work to fight against enemy. It is funny to me that Americans used to hate Soviet Union for fighting in Afghanastan. Huge misunderstanding. Taliban was never freedom fighters like Americans wanted to believe back than. Now America understands that they were terrorists but it is sadly to late. Soviet Union was never fooled by terrorists like United States was at that time. If two countries worked together instead of cold war, maybe no more terrorists today. We will never know but it is what I think. I remember Yuri telling me that Americans were also in Afghanastan helping our enemy but I never saw any so I did not believe him. Instead we talk about boxing because we did not want to fight over politics that we had no control over anyways. We were different in thinking but best of friends. I don't understand why Vladimir changed his name to Wladimir to sound more German. And he fights to much in Germany. Either fight in America for more money or go and fight in Russia to make people very happy. And maybe also in Ukraine which used to be Soviet Union. I think Klitschko could beat Ali in boxing match but I know for sure he would destroy Ali if he was trained during days of Soviet Union. He is perfect in every way. American media don't give him enough respect because he is from old Soviet Union and not United States. If Klitschko was from USA he would be a big hero here. Everybody would love him.

:D


so basically this poster thinks that just because wlad has a phd and is from the soviet union, he can beat ali?? wow, just wow.

[Seamus]

I am assuming we are talking prime Ali here. Yes, he would win but he didn't have the pop to stop Vit unless on a vicious cut. Vit could land his share and control his share of rounds but not as many as Ali. Then again, who would you pick over a prime Ali?

[My2Sense]

Sort of like that yeah. If you want to try and bank on the ods that Vitali will suffer the same exact shoulder injury and quit, then go with Ali.

Given that Ali's done EXACTLY THAT to opponents, then yeah I'd say any sensible person can bank on that.


yea ur right, ali would beat his face to a bloody mess and vk would get a shoulder injury from throwing so many missed punches, good call:good

:yep :good

[dezbeast]

I think Ali would take this by decision. But I don't buy all that nonsense that he would destroy Vitali though I'm am a huge Ali fan.

[groove]

quote "Ali was not that smart" i didn't read anymore.... who gives these losers the time of day.

[Brit Sillynanny]

quote "Ali was not that smart" i didn't read anymore.... who gives these losers the time of day. And yeah i'm talkin to Brit Sillynanny, you can go and fuk yourself you ignorant freak.

Wake up doofus. I didn't write that post.

As for ignorance, I highly doubt that. I was with Arthur Andersen, Coopers & Lybrand, and a fortune 200 as a tax accountant, auditor, accounting manager, and divisional controller before "retiring" in my early 30s. I have been an equity trader for myself for the past nearly fifteen years.

Consider that in '71 as a youth I was taken to watch the first Ali / Frazier fight on closed circuit. I've been to dozens of fights at the Olympic Auditorium and the Forum (California) in the early to mid '70s and live in Vegas today (which you'll discover has had a few fights over the years).

I am very familiar with boxing from the '60s and '70s, as I lived through it. I have been ringside to watch the Quarry bros. a few times. You can be certain that I hold Ali in the absolute highest regard a a fighter.

Clue up.

[groove]

Please accept my apologies. I thought that you wrote that nonsense.

[Unforgiven]

"Ali was not that smart, he had no university degrees. "

:rofl

[Mr Butt]

ali by ud or cuts stoppage

[junior-soprano]

The correct answer would be Vitali KO's Ali. I can't think of a greater mismatch. Ali is way out of his league in this one.

hahaha yeah this is what i already aspected from you woddy. you are getting a little predictable.
ever thought of giving up you're current ocupation and becoming a stand-up comedian ???

[Squire]

ali has a better resume and legacy, and for that stands above vitali in ATG rankings; but vitali stops him head 2 head

[lefthook89]

ali has a better resume and legacy, and for that stands above vitali in ATG rankings; but vitali stops him head 2 head

no, no he doesn't. vitali is too slow and too predictable to face ali. he just wouldn't have an answer for ali's toughness, speed and overall athleticism.

[Squire]

no, no he doesn't. vitali is too slow and too predictable to face ali. he just wouldn't have an answer for ali's toughness, speed and overall athleticism.

vitali is anything but predictable. i just think height, reach, range and power beats boxing skill and athleticism in this one

[lefthook89]

vitali is anything but predictable. i just think height, reach, range and power beats boxing skill and athleticism in this one

the only thing vitali brings in this matchup his height and size, ali has a longer reach than him (ali: 84", vitali 82"). i honestly think vitali wouldn't be able to land a glove on ali, ali would see just about every punch he throws at him. vitali has and never will face an opponent like ali, his punches would be too fast and too crisp for vitali to capitlze on. vitali's power is overrated as well, he wouldn't hurt ali even if he COULD hit him.

[mcvey]

This guy writes like that Meerkat talks in the car insurance advert
,"Compare the Meerkat .com" "Simple"!

[Brit Sillynanny]

Please accept my apologies. I thought that you wrote that nonsense.


Forgotten. My bad for overreacting too. Cheers.

[Seamus]

the only thing vitali brings in this matchup his height and size, ali has a longer reach than him (ali: 84", vitali 82").

errr... ali is usually credited with a 78-80" reach.

and he'd win regardless.

[tommygun711]

Ali batters vitali's face in cuts before he makes it to the 8th round. Vitali would hit air and Ali would come in and out at will. what a mismatch.

[SuzieQ49]

Ali TKO 1 Vitali

[PetethePrince]

Ali TKO 1 Vitali

:lol:

[mr. magoo]

Ali TKO 1 Vitali

Aren't you forgetting that Vitali was the man who beat " super south paw Sanders?" Surely you must have intended for your post to read this,

Vitali TKO 1 Ali..

[itrymariti]

This is really General Forum childish. There's no need for all the mindless hate VK's getting here.

[Bummy Davis]

Ali by a very close decision. Vitali very awkward give Ali a lot of trouble, speed of Ali makes the difference in a close Decision 8-7, 9-6, 7-7-1

[Brummy1976]

Ali by a very close decision. Vitali very awkward give Ali a lot of trouble, speed of Ali makes the difference in a close Decision 8-7, 9-6, 7-7-1 You chinese yes ?

[Kalasinn]

Ali by UD or late TKO via cuts.

[Boilermaker]

Before totally writing Vitali off, you need to look at Ali's opponents. I would be correct in saying that Vitali would be the biggest opponent, wouldnt i. And certainly the biggest opponent who uses his reach and a jab.

Probably the closest that Ali fought to Vitali was Bugner, and Bugner did cause some problems for Ali, even though he was pretty much outclassed. I think that Vitali is probably better than bugner by quite a decent amount.

We know that Vitali wil shoot out a power jab from the low guard position, every time Ali hits, but the problem he has is that Ali will land two or three shots to one. And i believe, like with Foreman, he will regularly plant his feet, and perhaps even land the lead right with regularity. Vitali is big and strong, but he doesnt have that much power and relies on wearing down Ali. Ali never had problems with taking power shots and i think that Vitali will be unable to wear him down (a prime version anyway). One has to wonder whether Ali would employ the rope a dope against Vitali. I think he might. It would draw Vitali in, where he would not do too much damage and allow Ali to land heavily when he chose to. I have trouble seeing anything but an Ali KO. But, a prediction for Vitali is not totally ridiculous.

[Squire]

I think its especially hard to predict fantasy fights involving Vitali because of his combination of size, good chin and unorthodox style. I quite like the analysis posted above but Ali KO'ing Vitali seems pretty farfetched to me.

[Boilermaker]

I think its especially hard to predict fantasy fights involving Vitali because of his combination of size, good chin and unorthodox style. I quite like the analysis posted above but Ali KO'ing Vitali seems pretty farfetched to me.

He Ko D the iron chinned Foreman.

I think it is a combination of speed and stamina which would lead to the KO (perhaps even a tko). Ali stopped Foreman, Bonavena, Liston, Wepner, Folley, Ellis, Williams, Quarry. All good solid chins. I dont think stopping vitali is far fetched.

[SuzieQ49]

But, a prediction for Vitali is not totally ridiculous.



When did Vitali ever come close to defeating a heavyweight that compares to a prime muhammad ali?

[Boilermaker]

When did Vitali ever come close to defeating a heavyweight that compares to a prime muhammad ali?
I agree that no one Vitali has faced compares to a prime Muhammed Ali or is in his class.

But then again, does anyone compare to a prime Muhammed Ali?

If we are using this criteria then the guys with the best chance of beating Ali would be:

Bob Fitzsimmons (beat Corbett)
Tom Sharkey (beat Corbett)
Jim Jeffries (Beat Corbett)
Joe Choynski (beat Prime Johnson)
Marvin Hart (beat Prime Johnson)
Micheal Spinks (beat Larry Holmes)
Mike Tyson (beat Larry Holmes)
Harry Greb (beat prime Gene Tunney)
Joe Frazier (beat close to prime Muhammed Ali)
Ken Norton (beat close to prime Muhammed Ali)

Do you give anyone else a chance?

[djanders]

Emphasis=mine:Before totally writing Vitali off, you need to look at Ali's opponents. I would be correct in saying that Vitali would be the biggest opponent, wouldnt i. And certainly the biggest opponent who uses his reach and a jab.

Probably the closest that Ali fought to Vitali was Bugner, and Bugner did cause some problems for Ali, even though he was pretty much outclassed. I think that Vitali is probably better than bugner by quite a decent amount.

We know that Vitali wil shoot out a power jab from the low guard position, every time Ali hits, but the problem he has is that Ali will land two or three shots to one. And i believe, like with Foreman, he will regularly plant his feet, and perhaps even land the lead right with regularity. Vitali is big and strong, but he doesnt have that much power and relies on wearing down Ali. Ali never had problems with taking power shots and i think that Vitali will be unable to wear him down (a prime version anyway). One has to wonder whether Ali would employ the rope a dope against Vitali. I think he might. It would draw Vitali in, where he would not do too much damage and allow Ali to land heavily when he chose to. I have trouble seeing anything but an Ali KO. But, a prediction for Vitali is not totally ridiculous.

If I remember correctly, a past his prime Ali won about 11 of 15 rounds in the Bugner fight. Those were the days when Ali would rest in some rounds to maximize his stamina. In his prime, if it had gone the distance, I believe Ali would have won about 14 or 15 of 15 rounds against Bugner.

[SuzieQ49]

I get the point you are breaking but....



Bob Fitzsimmons (beat Corbett)
Tom Sharkey (beat Corbett)
Jim Jeffries (Beat Corbett)
Joe Choynski (beat Prime Johnson)
Marvin Hart (beat Prime Johnson)
Micheal Spinks (beat Larry Holmes)
Mike Tyson (beat Larry Holmes)
Harry Greb (beat prime Gene Tunney)

- Corbett was past his prime by the time he fought Fitz, Shark, and Jeff. Corbett had not won a fight for SIX years prior to fighting Jeffries. Lastly, Corbett even on his best day is nowhere near as good as Muhammad Ali(At least imo).

- Joe Choynski did not beat a prime Johnson. He beat a 170lb kid version of Johnson. Not the 205lb chizzled man we later saw in 1908. The 1901 Jack Johnson does not compare to a prime muhammad ali.

- Beating a 36 year old Holmes in 1985 does not compare to a Prime Muhammad Ali.

- Beating a 38 year old Holmes in 1988 does not compare to a Prime Muhammad ALi

- Gene Tunney was a smaller, less durable version of Ali. Greb never beat Tunney when Tunney weighed in above 180lb. Ali was 6'3 212lb.



I like the point you are trying to make...but the examples you used were way off.

[Mendoza]

Look, Ali had trouble with good boxers. See the Doug Jones, Patterson, Norton, Young, and Lyle. In all stages of Ali's career he lost rounds multiple rounds to good out fighters who could jab.

Fact : Ali lost more rounds to Doug Jones, Blin and Mildenberger than Vitali has in his entire pro career.

Unlike Jones, and Young, Vitali had some serious size, activity and power.

Unlike Norton, Lyle, or Paterson, Vitali took a great punch.

Kenny Norton totally owned Ali, busted him up, and in my opinion might have scored a stoppage win ( watch the full 12 round fight ) if the match was 15 rounds. Don't give me crap that Ali was past his best as Norton defeated Ali before Ali beat either Frazier or Foreman!

In many ways, Vitali is Ali's toughest match up. The rope a dope would not work with him.

[SuzieQ49]

Look, Ali had trouble with good boxers. See the Doug Jones, Patterson, Norton, Young, and Lyle. In all stages of Ali's career he lost rounds multiple rounds to good out fighters who could jab.

Fact : Ali lost more rounds to Doug Jones, Blin and Mildenberger than Vitali has in his entire pro career.

Unlike Jones, and Young, Vitali had some serious size, activity and power.

Unlike Norton, Lyle, or Paterson, Vitali took a great punch.

Kenny Norton totally owned Ali, busted him up, and in my opinion might have scored a stoppage win ( watch the full 12 round fight ) if the match was 15 rounds. Don't give me crap that Ali was past his best as Norton defeated Ali before Ali beat either Frazier or Foreman!

In many ways, Vitali is Ali's toughest match up. The rope a dope would not work with him.

:lol::lol::lol::rofl:rofl:rofl

My god,

Can't you just admit Vitali would get beaten?

[SuzieQ49]

Look, Ali had trouble with good boxers. See the Doug Jones, Patterson, Norton, Young, and Lyle. In all stages of Ali's career he lost rounds multiple rounds to good out fighters who could jab.

Fact : Ali lost more rounds to Doug Jones, Blin and Mildenberger than Vitali has in his entire pro career.

Unlike Jones, and Young, Vitali had some serious size, activity and power.

Unlike Norton, Lyle, or Paterson, Vitali took a great punch.

Kenny Norton totally owned Ali, busted him up, and in my opinion might have scored a stoppage win ( watch the full 12 round fight ) if the match was 15 rounds. Don't give me crap that Ali was past his best as Norton defeated Ali before Ali beat either Frazier or Foreman!

In many ways, Vitali is Ali's toughest match up. The rope a dope would not work with him.

Mendoza,



:lol:

[Mendoza]

Mendoza,



:lol:

When a poster laughs, but can't debunk facts, I'm the one who :D's

Fact : Ali lost more rounds to Doug Jones, Blin and Mildenberger than Vitali has in his entire pro career.

Unlike Jones, and Young, Vitali had some serious size, activity and power.

Unlike Norton, Lyle, or Paterson, Vitali took a great punch.

Kenny Norton totally owned Ali, busted him up, and in my opinion might have scored a stoppage win ( watch the full 12 round fight ) if the match was 15 rounds. Don't give me crap that Ali was past his best as Norton defeated Ali before Ali beat either Frazier or Foreman!

In many ways, Vitali is Ali's toughest match up. The rope a dope would not work with him.

[SuzieQ49]

When a poster laughs, but can't debunk facts, I'm the one who :D's

Fact : Ali lost more rounds to Doug Jones, Blin and Mildenberger than Vitali has in his entire pro career.

Unlike Jones, and Young, Vitali had some serious size, activity and power.

Unlike Norton, Lyle, or Paterson, Vitali took a great punch.

Kenny Norton totally owned Ali, busted him up, and in my opinion might have scored a stoppage win ( watch the full 12 round fight ) if the match was 15 rounds. Don't give me crap that Ali was past his best as Norton defeated Ali before Ali beat either Frazier or Foreman!

In many ways, Vitali is Ali's toughest match up. The rope a dope would not work with him.

:lol::lol::lol::rofl

[Bummy Davis]

You chinese yes ?

Why because I shortened my sentence...or because of my wisdom

[Fighting Weight]

Look, Ali had trouble with good boxers. See the Doug Jones, Patterson, Norton, Young, and Lyle. In all stages of Ali's career he lost rounds multiple rounds to good out fighters who could jab.

Fact : Ali lost more rounds to Doug Jones, Blin and Mildenberger than Vitali has in his entire pro career.

Unlike Jones, and Young, Vitali had some serious size, activity and power.

Unlike Norton, Lyle, or Paterson, Vitali took a great punch.

Kenny Norton totally owned Ali, busted him up, and in my opinion might have scored a stoppage win ( watch the full 12 round fight ) if the match was 15 rounds. Don't give me crap that Ali was past his best as Norton defeated Ali before Ali beat either Frazier or Foreman!

In many ways, Vitali is Ali's toughest match up. The rope a dope would not work with him.

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

I love the way VITLAY takes a great punch, when in reality he's fought mostly bums, and the only 2 fighters that REALLY clocked him had him on queer st (Lewis and Sanders)

Ali faced some of the most murderous punchers in HW history and never got KO'd, not once. VITLAY has lived in the weakest era in living memory and still managed to get stopped twice, once by a feather-fist :patsch

Also, if you think the Ali that fought Frazier and Foreman was the best version of Ali then you've got a lot to learn about this sport my son.

[PetethePrince]

Ali embarrasses Vitali. That sniper left hand low bend by the waist shit won't work with Ali.

Wlad, on the other hand gives Ali a much much better fight.

[Son of Gaul]

If you're talking about a prime Ali then...

Ali by ridiculously one sided decision.

[Son of Gaul]

Vitali versus '74 Foreman would have been a bit more intriguing.

[Fighting Weight]

Vitali versus '74 Foreman would have been a bit more intriguing.

Not really, Foreman by ownage. If VITLAY thought Sanders and Lewis hit hard then he's in for the night of his life against that version of Foreman. Foreman by KO inside of 3 rounds, and VITLAY would have been stuttering worse after this fight than he was after the Lewis fight, count on it.

[Fighting Weight]

Wlad, on the other hand gives Ali a much much better fight.

Actually I agree with this....for as long as it lasted then WALDO would be pretty competitive I reckon. But 'that' chin won't last 12-15 rounds against a guy like Ali. I reckon Ali KO's WALDO after about 9 rounds but it would be relatively close on the cards (I know how important that shit is to Klit-lovers)

[SuzieQ49]

I recently came across Mendoza's top 10 heavyweights of all time list. He had Vitali as number 9 on his All time List. :lol:

[PetethePrince]

Actually I agree with this....for as long as it lasted then WALDO would be pretty competitive I reckon. But 'that' chin won't last 12-15 rounds against a guy like Ali. I reckon Ali KO's WALDO after about 9 rounds but it would be relatively close on the cards (I know how important that shit is to Klit-lovers)

I think it would go to a decision due to styles, but there's zero way that Wlad can continuously out-box Ali. And his stamina will suffer while Ali's under-appreciated stamina/work-rate come blazing at him. I think in a 15 round contest he could get stopped due to exhaustion or possibly a ref stoppage. Otherwise, he'll win a 9-10/6-5 type decision.

Vitali would be embarrassed by Ali's reflexes and speed, though. He's just not getting by with size against the fastest, fleetest, best reflexed HW champ ever.

[Gander Tasco]

Vitali doesn't belong in the ring with Ali let alone any ATG.

[popejking]

Bad fight for Vitali.

[Boxed Ears]

Why because I shortened my sentence...or because of my wisdom

:lol::good

[johnmaff36]

Prime Ali would hit him everywhere except the soles of his feet. I voted Ali on pts but now im not sure that Ali might stop him. Ali either way

[johnmaff36]

Before totally writing Vitali off, you need to look at Ali's opponents. I would be correct in saying that Vitali would be the biggest opponent, wouldnt i. And certainly the biggest opponent who uses his reach and a jab.

Probably the closest that Ali fought to Vitali was Bugner, and Bugner did cause some problems for Ali, even though he was pretty much outclassed. I think that Vitali is probably better than bugner by quite a decent amount.

We know that Vitali wil shoot out a power jab from the low guard position, every time Ali hits, but the problem he has is that Ali will land two or three shots to one. And i believe, like with Foreman, he will regularly plant his feet, and perhaps even land the lead right with regularity. Vitali is big and strong, but he doesnt have that much power and relies on wearing down Ali. Ali never had problems with taking power shots and i think that Vitali will be unable to wear him down (a prime version anyway). One has to wonder whether Ali would employ the rope a dope against Vitali. I think he might. It would draw Vitali in, where he would not do too much damage and allow Ali to land heavily when he chose to. I have trouble seeing anything but an Ali KO. But, a prediction for Vitali is not totally ridiculous.
Dunno bout Bugner, i woulda thought Terrell

[johnmaff36]

Sorry, in that last post i was refering to size and maybe styles, not rounds won

[Holmes' Jab]

Can't believe so many reckon Vitali would last the distance. Ali TKO somewhere between rounds 7-10 for me after toying with Vitali.

[Mendoza]

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

I love the way VITLAY takes a great punch, when in reality he's fought mostly bums, and the only 2 fighters that REALLY clocked him had him on queer st (Lewis and Sanders)

Ali faced some of the most murderous punchers in HW history and never got KO'd, not once. VITLAY has lived in the weakest era in living memory and still managed to get stopped twice, once by a feather-fist :patsch

Also, if you think the Ali that fought Frazier and Foreman was the best version of Ali then you've got a lot to learn about this sport my son.

Vitali has taken bombs from three big punchers. Lewis, Sanders, and Hide. He has never been floored. Simply stated he takes a great punch, If you add the fact that no man has come close to out boxing him, and he can hit move and stay active all night, he's a tall order to beat literally.

Ali has also taken bombs, but he was floored by the likes of Banks, and nearly Ko'd by a cruiser weight in Henry Cooper. For a guy with great defense, Ali sure got tagged plenty.

The best version of Ali is debatable. Sure the 60's version was faster. No doubt. But the early 70's version was smarter, a better counter puncher, hit a little harder ( I think ) and much better clinching / covering up. The clinching and covering up part played a big role in Ali's victory over Frazier and Foreman.

[McGrain]

Wasn't Ali up at 4 against Cooper? By what standard is that "nearly KO'd"

[JohnThomas1]

Wasn't Ali up at 4 against Cooper? By what standard is that "nearly KO'd"

By Mendoza's when anyone's compared to a Klit :lol:

[madballster]

Vitali would by far be the toughest opponent Ali has ever faced.

I'd give it a 50/50 to go either way. Ali would have to force an injury on Vitali to win by stoppage.

[Stevie G]

ali by a wide UD with VK's face beaten and battered beyond recognition, due to ali's high work rate, accurate punches and amazing footwork.
Very similar to my scenario on this one. It would resemble the Ernie Terrel fight,imo.

[Holmes' Jab]

By Mendoza's when anyone's compared to a Klit :lol:


Ali and Larry are mere unsosphisticated old-time dinosaurs in comparison to the mighty Quitali. :yep :dead

[McGrain]

By Mendoza's when anyone's compared to a Klit :lol:


Fraid so. It's more rabid than the Jeffries stuff now.

[itrymariti]

I don't think the Doug Jones fight was close, actually. I only gave him 1 or 2 rounds.

[TheGreatA]

I don't think the Doug Jones fight was close, actually. I only gave him 1 or 2 rounds.

I'd say it was closer than that, but a clear win for Ali, although a tough, tough fight for him. Jones gave him a real test.

[Fighting Weight]

Vitali has taken bombs from three big punchers. Lewis, Sanders, and Hide.

:lol::lol::lol:

[punchy]

Vitali looks good in most of his fights because his opponents can not get to him, Lewis did a lot of damage once he worked him out and he did it with his right, which I see Ali doing as well. Don't underestimate Vitali he would be a tough fight but Ali would emerge the winner either by a clear points or a stoppage on cuts.

[ripcity]

Vitali Klitchko is one of the best power punchers in history. Even his lead jab is a power punch. There is a problem though. A good combonation should be 1,2 or 1,2,3. Vitali punches 1 and 2. In otherwords a good combonation the punches are conected to each other. Vitali more or less throws one punch at a time. Someone with speed should be able to counter him. Muhammad Ali has speed.
Another thing I don't like about Vitali or Wald for that matter is that if you can hit them you can beat them. I don't think this is the case for all boxers. Ali for example is a boxer you have to do more than just hit. I think as good as theybare the brothers Klitchko break easly.
By no means will this be an easy fight. Ali will have to be at is best throughout the fight. I think he uses his speed gets in and out. He will take a few good punches. Vitili will even win some of the rounds. In the end I think Ali wears down Vitali down and stops him around the 10th round.:rasta

[PowerPuncher]

Who was better Doug Jones or Chris Byrd?

[frankenfrank]

Ali can win by stoppage on cuts , but so can vitali.
ali is somewhat smaller than lewis whom was smaller himself than vitali and it will make the task of landing even harder for ali.
ali was fast for his size but so is vitali .
ali's only way of landing in this fight is move forward.
since when ali moves forward against a bigger unhurt opponent ?
and vitali can move backwards and continue to pepper ali

[Seamus]

Vitali wins fights largely by controlling distance and pace. Unfortunately, a prime Ali likes to operate at about the same distance Vitali prefers and has the speed both of fist and foot to break Vitali's tactics. Ouch.

Stoppage on cuts around 10.

[frankenfrank]

Vitali wins fights largely by controlling distance and pace. Unfortunately, a prime Ali likes to operate at about the same distance Vitali prefers and has the speed both of fist and foot to break Vitali's tactics. Ouch.

Stoppage on cuts around 10.
are you suggesting that ali can land on vitali from the same distance vitali can land on him ?

[Seamus]

are you suggesting that ali can land on vitali from the same distance vitali can land on him ?

Yes. Footwork and timing mean more than height and a couple inches of reach. Its not Rock'em Sock'em Robots where they stand static and the one with the longer limbs does the hitting. I think VK is usually under-rated in these parts but this is just a bad, bad match-up for him, and just about anyone else...

[Bokaj]

Look, Ali had trouble with good boxers. See the Doug Jones, Patterson, Norton, Young, and Lyle. In all stages of Ali's career he lost rounds multiple rounds to good out fighters who could jab

Patterson? Really? Would this be the first fight, when Ali absolutely toyed with him, or would it be the second, when Ali took him out within three rounds after actually starting to fight?

The rest of these guys did give Ali trouble, though. That's true. But I don't think Vitaly is really that comparable to them. He's much slower and much less skilled than most of them. He also fights tall, which Jones and Norton didn't do. Lyle fought kind of tall, but then Ali's right also had little trouble finding him. The same with Foreman, who also fought tall.

What Vitaly has going for him is rather his size, strength, durability and power. He combines those attributes better than probably anyone Ali fought (well, Foreman would perhaps argue with that). He also has a kind of awkward style that could bother Ali. Would be intersting to see how his leaning back defense works against Ali, and vice versa.

[Bokaj]

are you suggesting that ali can land on vitali from the same distance vitali can land on him ?

He did so just fine against other opponents with longer reach, such as Liston, Terrell and Bugner.

[mcvey]

Yes. Footwork and timing mean more than height and a couple inches of reach. Its not Rock'em Sock'em Robots where they stand static and the one with the longer limbs does the hitting. I think VK is usually under-rated in these parts but this is just a bad, bad match-up for him, and just about anyone else...

Good post,though I don't think Ali stops Vitali,I suppose he could open up cuts on his eyes ,but somehow I think the big man goes the distance,

[frankenfrank]

He did so just fine against other opponents with longer reach, such as Liston, Terrell and Bugner.
these fighters did not have vitali's size nor his skill.
i don't care what boxrec and other sources say about liston's reach.
i saw parts of his first fight with ali and ali had the reach advantage in that one , he did not have to swarm liston as he could reach him from outside of liston's range.
vitali will have a bigger advantage against ali.
if vitali stood still , ali could reach him , but vitali will move too , and despite my vote , i tend more to think that it will actually be vitali by decision

[frankenfrank]

Yes. Footwork and timing mean more than height and a couple inches of reach. Its not Rock'em Sock'em Robots where they stand static and the one with the longer limbs does the hitting. I think VK is usually under-rated in these parts but this is just a bad, bad match-up for him, and just about anyone else...
vitali has footwork too , i did not think it will be static , but vitali will have a size and skill combination ali had never met before.
nothing like the smaller liston , the foolish terrell , or joe bugner whom was very close to ali's size himself , and had nothing to offer except being a big target for his era.

[kickbxn5]

Ali by decsison.

[Bokaj]

these fighters did not have vitali's size nor his skill.

You do realise they were all more skillful, don't you? Vitaly is skillful for his size, but only for his size.

[frankenfrank]

You do realise they were all more skillful, don't you? Vitaly is skillful for his size, but only for his size.
i do not realize.
terrell and bugner had minimal skill.
if bugner had skill he would not have ended against shavers like he did.
maybe liston had about the same skill , i guess less , but he had a range disadvantage as opposed to vitali whom would have a big range advantage

[viljushka]

maybe liston had about the same skill , i guess less , but he had a range disadvantage as opposed to vitali whom would have a big range advantage

liston actually had a longer reach than vitali, at 84"

[Bokaj]

i do not realize.
terrell and bugner had minimal skill.
if bugner had skill he would not have ended against shavers like he did.
maybe liston had about the same skill , i guess less , but he had a range disadvantage as opposed to vitali whom would have a big range advantage

If you know anything about boxing you will immediatly see that Liston is substantially more skilled than Vitaly. Terrel is also more skilled, Bugner is the closest to Vitaly in terms of skill.

Vitaly is not a skillful boxer per se. He does have pretty good skill, very functional skill, for his size, though. But the difference between him and Liston is very easy to see.

[McGrain]

liston actually had a longer reach than vitali, at 84"


Auspicious start, correcting an idiot.

Welcome to the board.

[johnmaff36]

I don't think the Doug Jones fight was close, actually. I only gave him 1 or 2 rounds.
I watched it 2weeks ago and gave it to Ali by 6-4. A hard enough fight for Ali but i didnt think the decision should have been as disputed as it was

[The Wanderer]

Ali laughs at Vitali while he picks him apart.

[johnmaff36]

quote "Ali was not that smart" i didn't read anymore.... who gives these losers the time of day.
Im glad you said that because ive had to check that my missus hasnt put acid in my food and that i really did read that. Absolutely absurd statement to make

[viljushka]

Auspicious start, correcting an idiot.

Welcome to the board.

thx, a pleasure to be here.

as for the discussion, my newbie opinion is that this is one of those "speed kills" instances - ali just too damn fast for vitali. vitali's size means almost nothing - ali fought guys just as big and much stronger.

[itrymariti]

thx, a pleasure to be here.

as for the discussion, my newbie opinion is that this is one of those "speed kills" instances - ali just too damn fast for vitali. vitali's size means almost nothing - ali fought guys just as big and much stronger.

Who?

I agree with your general case, but Vitali is a quite unique fighter.

[SuzieQ49]

Liston's reach is actually 5" longer than Vitali's. Vitali has short arms for a man of his height.


Checkout Liston's abnormally long arms here
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

pause at 0:02. :shock:

[viljushka]

Who?

I agree with your general case, but Vitali is a quite unique fighter.

whoops, i just saw what i wrote, sorry. meant to say he fought guys with bigger reach and stronger (foreman, liston the most obvious ones). just realised vitali's height alone might present some problems, even without the reach. BUT, terrell was only 1 inch shorter than vitali and had a longer reach and that didnt stop him getting hit all night long.

[tommygun711]

vitali has footwork too , i did not think it will be static , but vitali will have a size and skill combination ali had never met before.
nothing like the smaller liston , the foolish terrell , or joe bugner whom was very close to ali's size himself , and had nothing to offer except being a big target for his era.

you know, I can do that too. vitali has never faced a boxer like Ali, and NEVER WILL. Ali has a speed, heart, chin, and footwork combination that vitali will never face. Liston was much better then vitali, don't be rediculous. liston's reach is longer then vitalis, he's harder hitting, and stronger.
it's an insult to Ali to ever compare vitali to him. vitali is slow, lethargic, and not hard hitting for his size. terrell was still faster and had a better jab then vitali, so don't go there, bugner was faster too, and could move better.
you're just outgunned here. Ali would embarress the ukranian, while making him shit his pants at the press conferences.

[Gander Tasco]

You do realise they were all more skillful, don't you? Vitaly is skillful for his size, but only for his size.

Vitali has skill?

[punchy]

Ali can win by stoppage on cuts , but so can vitali.
ali is somewhat smaller than lewis whom was smaller himself than vitali and it will make the task of landing even harder for ali.
ali was fast for his size but so is vitali .
ali's only way of landing in this fight is move forward.
since when ali moves forward against a bigger unhurt opponent ?
and vitali can move backwards and continue to pepper ali

Vitali would be the one coming forward, Ali's speed with his jab and his ability to slip Vitali's would be the key here.

[kickbxn5]

How the hell can you even say Klitschko in the same sentence as.
Ali (see, two different sentences here)

[Mendoza]

Vitali would be the one coming forward, Ali's speed with his jab and his ability to slip Vitali's would be the key here.

Vitali does not always come forward. Sometimes he prefers the action come his way. Vitali would have a significant height advantage here, and a significant punch out put advantage as well.

[Mendoza]

Liston's reach is actually 5" longer than Vitali's. Vitali has short arms for a man of his height.


Checkout Liston's abnormally long arms here
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

pause at 0:02. :shock:

In terms of reach the way HBO defines it, from the pit of the arm to the fist, Vitali owns the record at 29.5"...even more than Lewis.

Liston had broad shoulders and long fingers....but as you know long fingers mean jack. Its the distance from the arm to the first that matters for reach.

BTW, Whitehurst went the distance with Liston. Vitali would stop Whitehurst.

[Mendoza]

I don't think the Doug Jones fight was close, actually. I only gave him 1 or 2 rounds.

WOW. I gave Jones 4 rounds, and Ali 6. It was a close fight. You only gave Doug Jones 1 or 2 rounds in this 10 round fight?

I took your Louis vs. Pastor score card at face value. Now I want to score it myself.

[Mendoza]

Wasn't Ali up at 4 against Cooper? By what standard is that "nearly KO'd"

By the standard that the knockdown came at the tail end of the round, the ropes let Ali fall as softly as possible, and Cooper did not have a chance to follow up as the round ended.

By the standard that Dundee jumped in the ring to escort Ali to his corner ( Could be illegal , and in some fights constitutes a DQ ).

By the standard that Ali was dazed in his corner, and Dundee used smelling salts which is illegal in British boxing. When Ali came too, his eyes looked like pinballs. He did not know where he was. Watch the tape.

I recommend watching ESPN's Ali the young champion. In that documentary, Dundee comments about the delay as well. Watch it sometime.

[Fighting Weight]

In terms of reach the way HBO defines it, from the pit of the arm to the fist, Vitali owns the record at 29.5"...even more than Lewis.

Liston had broad shoulders and long fingers....but as you know long fingers mean jack. Its the distance from the arm to the first that matters for reach.

BTW, Whitehurst went the distance with Liston. Vitali would stop Whitehurst.

I bet Liston would stop Byrd though, and Kevin Johnson.

[McGrain]

Vitali does not always come forward. Sometimes he prefers the action come his way. Vitali would have a significant height advantage here, and a significant punch out put advantage as well.

Punch out put tends to drop when a slower opponent fights a highly mobile opponent. These numbers are not black and white.

Liston had broad shoulders and long fingers....


:lol:


And I love the way Klitschko fans try to endlessly discredit the method for measuring reach that has been used forever whenever they are confonted with an opponent with superior reach. It makes my head ache.

Like Vitali doesn't have broad shoulders.

Like Vitali has tiny Jeremy Beadle hands.

[McGrain]

By the standard that the knockdown came at the tail end of the round, the ropes let Ali fall as softly as possible, and Cooper did not have a chance to follow up as the round ended.

By the standard that Dundee jumped in the ring to escort Ali to his corner ( Could be illegal , and in some fights constitutes a DQ ).

By the standard that Ali was dazed in his corner, and Dundee used smelling salts which is illegal in British boxing. When Ali came too, his eyes looked like pinballs. He did not know where he was. Watch the tape.

I recommend watching ESPN's Ali the young champion. In that documentary, Dundee comments about the delay as well. Watch it sometime.

Ali came up at four.

I watched the tape, yes.

"Ali did not know where he was."

He was in discussion with his corner. He was not in extremely hurt. He was up at four, talking. That's nearly knocked out to you?

"His eyes looked like pinballs."

I'm not sure what this is meant to mean, but his eyes look okay to me.

"Watch the tape."

Whole thing is on YouTube.

"Dundee speaks about the delay aswell."

Whole thing is on YouTube. Delay is almost non-existant.





Ali was up at 3 or 4. He looked hurt in the corner. He left the corner with no difficulty at the beginning of the new round. In the next action of the fight, Cooper was stopped.

Nearly knocked out?

Shite.

[Fighting Weight]

Ali came up at four.

I watched the tape, yes.

"Ali did not know where he was."

He was in discussion with his corner. He was not in extremely hurt. He was up at four, talking. That's nearly knocked out to you?

"His eyes looked like pinballs."

I'm not sure what this is meant to mean, but his eyes look okay to me.

"Watch the tape."

Whole thing is on YouTube.

"Dundee speaks about the delay aswell."

Whole thing is on YouTube. Delay is almost non-existant.





Ali was up at 3 or 4. He looked hurt in the corner. He left the corner with no difficulty at the beginning of the new round. In the next action of the fight, Cooper was stopped.

Nearly knocked out?

Shite.

Saved me the trouble of typing it out, thanks. Not that it'll do any good though....a 21 year old Ali/Clay gets no excuses for getting dropped like that, whereas every excuse in the book comes flying out for WALDO's losses to Purrity, Sanders and Brewster, not to mention VITLAYS quit job, 'used tampon face' against Lewis, and the fact that Sanders put him on his arse.

You're dealing with the king of double standards here mate, remember that.

[SuzieQ49]

BTW, Whitehurst went the distance with Liston. Vitali would stop Whitehurst.


Bryd and an over the hill Lennox Lewis TKO'd Vitali. Liston would knock them both out.

[SuperSouthpaw]

Had Corrie been in his prime, he would have eaten vitali alive and spit out his bones.


Look what a past his prime Corrie did to Vitali's face
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[The Mongoose]

I bet Liston would stop Byrd though, and Kevin Johnson.


Doubtful, I'm a huge Liston fan but he was subpar when it came to cutting off the ring. Byrd and Johnson would run for their lives and lose wide decisions.

[Fighting Weight]

Bryd and an over the hill Lennox Lewis TKO'd Vitali. Liston would knock them both out.

Yep.

Byrd would have been a no contest for Liston, he'd have just flattened the guy. VITLAY hit him with everything but the kitchen sink, couldn't get the guy out of there so he quit and regardless of anything the Klit-ites tell you, that's a mental weakness right there.

As for a 37 year old, fat and lazy Lewis....Liston by KO. Lewis might have won the event though :rofl:rofl:rofl

[bigjake]

this would be another bum of the month club fight for ali in 1965 to 1967

[Brit Sillynanny]

Had Corrie been in his prime, he would have eaten vitali alive and spit out his bones.


Look what a past his prime Corrie did to Vitali's face
[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Looking at your avatar ... did a sniper shoot that guy laying on the floor? Looks dead ....

[JohnThomas1]

Ali and Larry are mere unsosphisticated old-time dinosaurs in comparison to the mighty Quitali. :yep :dead

:lol:

[Bill Butcher]

Ali would be just too fast, slick & outright good technically for Vitali.

I dont see him stopping the big guy unless by cuts but I do see Vitali being made to look ridiculously slow & amateurish for most of the bout, especially if we`re talking the Ali from Liston-Folley.

Ali has the chin to take whatever Vitali does land... which might not be anything of note thru the whole 12 rds IMHO.

[johnmaff36]

Ali came up at four.

I watched the tape, yes.

"Ali did not know where he was."

He was in discussion with his corner. He was not in extremely hurt. He was up at four, talking. That's nearly knocked out to you?

"His eyes looked like pinballs."

I'm not sure what this is meant to mean, but his eyes look okay to me.

"Watch the tape."

Whole thing is on YouTube.

"Dundee speaks about the delay aswell."

Whole thing is on YouTube. Delay is almost non-existant.





Ali was up at 3 or 4. He looked hurt in the corner. He left the corner with no difficulty at the beginning of the new round. In the next action of the fight, Cooper was stopped.

Nearly knocked out?

Shite.
Exactly. Especially the last word. Ali was up as quickly as is physically possible in any knockdown he encountered:good

[Mendoza]

Ali came up at four.

I watched the tape, yes.

"Ali did not know where he was."

He was in discussion with his corner. He was not in extremely hurt. He was up at four, talking. That's nearly knocked out to you?

"His eyes looked like pinballs."

I'm not sure what this is meant to mean, but his eyes look okay to me.

"Watch the tape."

Whole thing is on YouTube.

"Dundee speaks about the delay aswell."

Whole thing is on YouTube. Delay is almost non-existant.



Ali was up at 3 or 4. He looked hurt in the corner. He left the corner with no difficulty at the beginning of the new round. In the next action of the fight, Cooper was stopped.

Nearly knocked out?

Shite.


Get a f'n clue. Lots of guys get up only to be knocked down again. Ali was hurt in his corner, and did not know where he was. Watch what happened when Ali finally comes to and smells the salts.

As I explained the knockdown happened at the very end of the round, Dundee entered the ring to escort Ali to his corner, and Dundee woke Ali up with smelling salts. Also what Dundee says is not on you tube.

Watch the ESPN doc sometimes. In this case it is you who are going on highlights.

[Mendoza]

not to mention VITLAYS quit job, 'used tampon face' against Lewis, and the fact that Sanders put him on his arse.

You're dealing with the king of double standards here mate, remember that.


Oh, Ali wanted to quit vs. Liston. Cut the gloves off he said. Dundee saved him. If Ali had Vitlai's corner, they let him quit. It looks like Dundee really helped Ali in this one as well. And stop lying, Sanders did not score an official knockdown. It was a shove down.

[McGrain]

Get a f'n clue.

"Nearly knoked out" means barely beating the count. That's it. Getting up at nine, getting up at 8 and having a stumble, otherwise everyone who has ever been knocked down was "nearly knocked out".

Ali was hurt in his corner, and did not know where he was.

Shite.

Ali knows exactly where he was. Proof? He walks directly to his corner.

Watch the ESPN doc sometimes. In this case it is you who are going on highlights.


Watch an ESPN documentary instead of the raw footage? Why?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Dundee entered the ring and escorted Ali to the corner

Yeah, i'm afraid this is another one of your lies on "mis-rememberances". He did not "escort Ali to the corner". Ali gets up at the count of 3 or 4 and takes four VERY calm steps to his corner. He does not wobble. He does not fall over. He seems calm and collected. Angelo Dundee gets into the ring behind him and puts an arma round his shoulders as he takes his seat, again, calmly, without difficulty.

YOU ACTUALLY THINK THIS IS "ESCORTING HIM TO THE CORNER"? YOU ACTUALLY THINK FIGHTERS HAVE BEEN DISQUALIFIED FOR THIS? ARE YOU BLIND OR JUS STUPID?

Moving FURHTER away from the corner (boy, he must have been RIGHT in that ring), Dundee removes Ali's gumshield.

He asks Muhammad a question, Muhammad responds, he slaps Muhammad on the thigh. Muhammad momentarily stands up, re-testing his legs, the commentator goes bersker screaming tha Ali "doesn't know where he is" inspite of ALL evidence to the contrary. They sponge him (normal after KD), pour water on him (normal after KD), and then give smelling salts (normal after KD).

The extra delay is reckoned to be about six seconds.

Ali looks absolutley fine and stops Cooper.



If you want to describe a guy getting up after a 3 second knockdown and walking calmly to his corner (When we've seen guys try to fight on, walk to the wrong corner, fall down again in such situations) as "nearly knocked out" that's your outlook. I think it's total shite. If you want to describe Dundee as "coming into the ring and escoring Ali to the corner" i've got to categorise that with the same lala land analysis that had you insisting that Joe Louis "did a backflip out of the ring. only a miracle saved him".

You are the only poster on this forum that I have to address for making things up which don't happen on film.

[Fighting Weight]

Oh, Ali wanted to quit vs. Liston. Cut the gloves off he said. Dundee saved him. If Ali had Vitlai's corner, they let him quit. It looks like Dundee really helped Ali in this one as well. And stop lying, Sanders did not score an official knockdown. It was a shove down.

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl Excuse number 324,711 - it was VITLAYS corners fault :patsch

Also Sanders might not have scored an official knockdown but everyone apart from the referee saw what happened - Sanders landed a big shot, VITLAY went backwards across the ring on rubber legs and hit the deck in the next exchange, it was a legitimate knockdown. In fact under recently discovered criteria, VITLAY was almost knocked out. :nut

[johnmaff36]

"Nearly knoked out" means barely beating the count. That's it. Getting up at nine, getting up at 8 and having a stumble, otherwise everyone who has ever been knocked down was "nearly knocked out".



Shite.

Ali knows exactly where he was. Proof? He walks directly to his corner.




Watch an ESPN documentary instead of the raw footage? Why?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]




Yeah, i'm afraid this is another one of your lies on "mis-rememberances". He did not "escort Ali to the corner". Ali gets up at the count of 3 or 4 and takes four VERY calm steps to his corner. He does not wobble. He does not fall over. He seems calm and collected. Angelo Dundee gets into the ring behind him and puts an arma round his shoulders as he takes his seat, again, calmly, without difficulty.

YOU ACTUALLY THINK THIS IS "ESCORTING HIM TO THE CORNER"? YOU ACTUALLY THINK FIGHTERS HAVE BEEN DISQUALIFIED FOR THIS? ARE YOU BLIND OR JUS STUPID?

Moving FURHTER away from the corner (boy, he must have been RIGHT in that ring), Dundee removes Ali's gumshield.

He asks Muhammad a question, Muhammad responds, he slaps Muhammad on the thigh. Muhammad momentarily stands up, re-testing his legs, the commentator goes bersker screaming tha Ali "doesn't know where he is" inspite of ALL evidence to the contrary. They sponge him (normal after KD), pour water on him (normal after KD), and then give smelling salts (normal after KD).

The extra delay is reckoned to be about six seconds.

Ali looks absolutley fine and stops Cooper.



If you want to describe a guy getting up after a 3 second knockdown and walking calmly to his corner (When we've seen guys try to fight on, walk to the wrong corner, fall down again in such situations) as "nearly knocked out" that's your outlook. I think it's total shite. If you want to describe Dundee as "coming into the ring and escoring Ali to the corner" i've got to categorise that with the same lala land analysis that had you insisting that Joe Louis "did a backflip out of the ring. only a miracle saved him".

You are the only poster on this forum that I have to address for making things up which don't happen on film.
I wish you were my union rep.:yep

[Abdullah]

Ali by decision.

[Mordechai]

prime ali never faced a fighter like prime vitali, the same goes for vitali, no way in hell could ali knock vitali out... the only exception is if he is able to give vitali a bad cut. ali will give up about 40 pounds and vitali is 4 inches taller and has a longer reach. he has way more power then ali and is smart, it's allowed to love the past, but you have to think clear for a moment, imo vitali would beat ali by ud.

[McGrain]

I wish you were my union rep.:yep

:lol:

[SuzieQ49]

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl Excuse number 324,711 - it was VITLAYS corners fault :patsch

Also Sanders might not have scored an official knockdown but everyone apart from the referee saw what happened - Sanders landed a big shot, VITLAY went backwards across the ring on rubber legs and hit the deck in the next exchange, it was a legitimate knockdown. In fact under recently discovered criteria, VITLAY was almost knocked out. :nut

:yep

[SuzieQ49]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Check this out. Vitali is badly hurt, stumbles into the ropes glassey eyed, then goes down. Could be ruled a knockdown.

[PetethePrince]

Vitali does not always come forward. Sometimes he prefers the action come his way. Vitali would have a significant height advantage here, and a significant punch out put advantage as well.

This is just idiotic. One Arreola fight where Vitali throws 800 arm-punches and all of a sudden he has superior stamina to Ali. It's stupid. Ali's punch-output is insanely underrated. And his stamina and punch-output is arguably better than any HW besides Rocky Marciano. Even Rocky commented Ali on his non-stop punching. Chuvalo does the same when comparing FOTC Ali to Ali of the 60's.

[Brit Sillynanny]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Check this out. Vitali is badly hurt, stumbles into the ropes glassey eyed, then goes down. Could be ruled a knockdown.


It absolutely was a knockdown.

[Brit Sillynanny]

Vitali does not always come forward. Sometimes he prefers the action come his way. Vitali would have a significant height advantage here, and a significant punch out put advantage as well.



This is just idiotic. One Arreola fight where Vitali throws 800 arm-punches and all of a sudden he has superior stamina to Ali. It's stupid. Ali's punch-output is insanely underrated. And his stamina and punch-output is arguably better than any HW besides Rocky Marciano. Even Rocky commented Ali on his non-stop punching. Chuvalo does the same when comparing FOTC Ali to Ali of the 60's.

:good

[Fighting Weight]

It absolutely was a knockdown.

:yep

VITLAY was on rubber legs, the referee got it wrong.

[SuzieQ49]

:yep

VITLAY was on rubber legs, the referee got it wrong.

:good

Just imagine if Sanders was a couple years younger, and had the stamina to fight past 2 rounds?

[Fighting Weight]

:good

Just imagine if Sanders was a couple years younger, and had the stamina to fight past 2 rounds?

I was going to post that, but thought better of it :D

He did give VITLAY a good beating in that first round though didn't he...you can just see it on VITLAYs face....."hey, they've gone and matched me with someone that hits back again, this does not compute" :lol:

[punchy]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Check this out. Vitali is badly hurt, stumbles into the ropes glassey eyed, then goes down. Could be ruled a knockdown.

Should have been ruled a knockdown, Vitali has fallen over as a result of the last punch Sanders threw but the punch didn't knock him down directly, in my view a knock down he was in a bad way. Sanders could punch, Vitali has a good chin, but Sanders could punch.

[punchy]

Vitali has shown weaknesses against a large quick opponent who could punch ie. Lewis and Sanders so it does raise the question how he would have gone against Ali and Bowe, a fighter like Areolla who was courageous but too small to get to Vitali is the type of fighter he likes to fight.

[Fighting Weight]

Vitali has shown weaknesses against a large quick opponent who could punch ie. Lewis and Sanders so it does raise the question how he would have gone against Ali and Bowe, a fighter like Areolla who was courageous but too small to get to Vitali is the type of fighter he likes to fight.

Arreolla also had no idea about defence which made him even more the kind of fighter VITLAY loves to fight. Prime Lewis or Bowe or even Holyfield would be the ultimate nightmare for either Klit brother, and don't even get me started on prime Tyson :shock:

[McGrain]

Ali was specialized for puncher-brawlers! He never had a height or reach disadvantage!

Yes, he did.


He was to small for Vitali! The guy is only 6'3, 210 pounds in his prime and fought men mostly between 190-220!

Do you think Tyson is to small for Bruno?


-he is deceptively fast

You cannot list speed as an advantage for Klitschko if he is slower.

and his awkward style may prove difficult for Ali to figure out

Ali has figured out a vaster array of styls than any other HW in filmed history. The case for Ali being somehow "unable" to fathom Klitschko is unproven at best and baseless at worst.

-has the a lot more power

But less power than many men Ali beat.


Alis advantages over Vitali:
-has better speed
-has more big match experience

:lol::lol:

How about -

Ring generalship(all aspects)
Punch variety
Accuracy
Mobility
Proven stamina
Durability
Heart
Strategical adatpion


For starters.

You list two advantages for Ali over Klitschko. Is that some sort of joke?

Weakness:
-Ali never fought anyone with the size and strength of Vitali ( Foreman was his biggest opponent at 6'3 with 220 pound was still small compared to the 6'7+ , 250 pound Vitali),

That's not a "weakness"!! If it's a weakness then i'd like to see "hasn't beaten a fighter that is even only 3 classes removed from Ali's" as a "weakness" under Klitschko's weaknesses.


-does not like brawling

He did it with some of the hardest punchers in history though, and came out with the better of it. Who has Vitali out-fought? Corrie Sanders?


-he gets hit to much(Ali didnt end up having Parkinsons because on NOT getting hit to many times in the head)

In his prime, Ali didn't get hit very much.

-does not have enough power to bother Vitali( in his lighter faster form)

That's pathetic. He KO'd George Foreman (yes i know it was hot) he stopped Joe Frazier, he stopped fucking Oscar Bonavena but he doesn't have enough power to - wait for it - bother Vitali?


Mentally they're on the same level! Vitali does not fight with rage, therefore Ali loses his advantage in psychological warfare!

:lol:

Both men fight with heart -although Ali quit on his stool 2 times against Holmes( cant blame him for that) and against Frazier in their third fight ( Ali admitted after the fight that he wouldn't have come out to the 15th round, but was saved by Fraziers doctor who did not let Frazier continue the fight, despite the boxers protest)-

:lol:

Vitali quit 2 times because of cuts aswell

:lol:

Both men can adjust during a fight, if the original game plan does not work ( Ali against Foreman and Vitali against Sanders)

:lol:


Chances Vitali 65% - Ali 35%
Prediction: Late round KO or a UD win for Vitali


I know English is not your first language, and i'm honestly making allowances for that, but you have a lot of facts wrong in what is a horribly unbalanced post. You need to have a rethink.

[Fighting Weight]

Both men can adjust during a fight, if the original game plan does not work ( Ali against Foreman and Vitali against Sanders)


Chances Vitali 65% - Ali 35%
Prediction: Late round KO or a UD win for Vitali



I have no interest in insult! So if you dont have anything usefull to write, then dont write

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

Just set fire to your PC and have done with it, you know nothing.

[PetethePrince]

Ali does not have the power to KO Vitali!

Ali was specialized for puncher-brawlers! He never had a height or reach disadvantage!
He was to small for Vitali! The guy is only 6'3, 210 pounds in his prime and fought men mostly between 190-220!

Vitalis advantages over Ali:
-he is deceptively fast and his awkward style may prove difficult for Ali to figure out
-has the a lot more power
-is taller
-has a reach advantage
-he can brawl, he can box
-has the better D overall of the 2

weakness:
-prone to injuries, so we never saw his real prime
-susceptible to cuts

Alis advantages over Vitali:
-has better speed
-has more big match experience

Weakness:
-Ali never fought anyone with the size and strength of Vitali ( Foreman was his biggest opponent at 6'3 with 220 pound was still small compared to the 6'7+ , 250 pound Vitali),
-does not like brawling
-he gets hit to much(Ali didnt end up having Parkinsons because on NOT getting hit to many times in the head)
-does not have enough power to bother Vitali( in his lighter faster form),


Mentally they're on the same level! Vitali does not fight with rage, therefore Ali loses his advantage in psychological warfare!
Both men fight with heart -although Ali quit on his stool 2 times against Holmes( cant blame him for that) and against Frazier in their third fight ( Ali admitted after the fight that he wouldn't have come out to the 15th round, but was saved by Fraziers doctor who did not let Frazier continue the fight, despite the boxers protest)-
Vitali quit 2 times because of cuts aswell
Both men can adjust during a fight, if the original game plan does not work ( Ali against Foreman and Vitali against Sanders)


Chances Vitali 65% - Ali 35%
Prediction: Late round KO or a UD win for Vitali



I have no interest in insult! So if you dont have anything usefull to write, then dont write


Attributing quit jobs to Ali in a time when he didn't even quit. Your theoretical nonsense doesn't work here. You're clearly trolling.

[punchy]

saw the vid! There was no KD! Sanders pushed Vitalis head with his right hand( now way did he hit him) and Vitali sliped

Good call from the reff! Vitali resisted much bigger power than that and remained on his feat

Sanders did push Vitali but Vitali was out on his feet which is why he went down he didn't slip.

[Beeston Brawler]

Ali does not have the power to KO Vitali!

Ali was specialized for puncher-brawlers! He never had a height or reach disadvantage!
He was to small for Vitali! The guy is only 6'3, 210 pounds in his prime and fought men mostly between 190-220!

Vitalis advantages over Ali:
-he is deceptively fast and his awkward style may prove difficult for Ali to figure out
-has the a lot more power
-is taller
-has a reach advantage
-he can brawl, he can box
-has the better D overall of the 2

weakness:
-prone to injuries, so we never saw his real prime
-susceptible to cuts

Alis advantages over Vitali:
-has better speed
-has more big match experience

Weakness:
-Ali never fought anyone with the size and strength of Vitali ( Foreman was his biggest opponent at 6'3 with 220 pound was still small compared to the 6'7+ , 250 pound Vitali),
-does not like brawling
-he gets hit to much(Ali didnt end up having Parkinsons because on NOT getting hit to many times in the head)
-does not have enough power to bother Vitali( in his lighter faster form),


Mentally they're on the same level! Vitali does not fight with rage, therefore Ali loses his advantage in psychological warfare!
Both men fight with heart -although Ali quit on his stool 2 times against Holmes( cant blame him for that) and against Frazier in their third fight ( Ali admitted after the fight that he wouldn't have come out to the 15th round, but was saved by Fraziers doctor who did not let Frazier continue the fight, despite the boxers protest)-
Vitali quit 2 times because of cuts aswell
Both men can adjust during a fight, if the original game plan does not work ( Ali against Foreman and Vitali against Sanders)


Chances Vitali 65% - Ali 35%
Prediction: Late round KO or a UD win for Vitali



I have no interest in insult! So if you dont have anything usefull to write, then dont write

Oh.

My.

God.

:patsch

[icemax]

So if you dont have anything usefull to write, then dont write

You should perhaps have taken your own advice :thumbsup

[JohnThomas1]

I wish you were my union rep.:yep

I think it is called,

GAME, SET & MATCH!!

New Balls please :lol:

[JohnThomas1]

:yep

VITLAY was on rubber legs, the referee got it wrong.

On this one i actually disagree. We need to have a close look at Sanders right foot in relation to Klit's left. The small shove simply toppled him over due to the foot positions. Definitely hurt prior tho, just no legitimate KD.

[Mendoza]

Vitali has shown weaknesses against a large quick opponent who could punch ie. Lewis and Sanders so it does raise the question how he would have gone against Ali and Bowe, a fighter like Areolla who was courageous but too small to get to Vitali is the type of fighter he likes to fight.

But Punchy,

Sanders won one round. Lewis won two rounds. Besides, Ali isn't in their class as a punch, and does not have their style. I fail to see a comparison here. As I stated before, Ali had trouble with active jabbers on multiple occasions.

If you want to look at matches where Vitlai fought boxer types, see Donald, Bean, or Johnson fail to do anything.

Also is Aerolla is too small, then Ali's even smaller.

[Sardu]

There is a great interview with Emanuel Steward discussing Vitali's place in heavyweight history. Steward states that Vitali knows his legacy is based on his tough, gritty, albeit losing performance against Lewis. I think his legacy will be greatly enhanced by the fact that he was able to come back so well after a five year layoff and perform the way he has performed. That is a testament to his great conditioning and the fact that he never let himself go and get out of shape.

However, because the last ten years of so have been a very dismal time in heavyweight history Vitali had no chance to really be tested the way someone like Ali obviously was. Steward rightfully states that Vitali basically fought and beat essentially a bunch of stiffs (nobodies). Steward also said that Vitali's legacy could be enhanced by beating a David Haye or Valuev. Bostov looks very promising but is on the smaller side and too young right now. Vitali would be no day at the beach for anyone - Ali included. However, it is hard for me to envision Vitali, who had his face busted up by a very sluggish and ill prepared Lewis, being able to defeat any version of Ali before 1976. Even the Ali who outgutted Shavers would probably been even money vs Vitali I believe.

[he grant]

Ali by clear decision or cut stopage .. If both fought prime today a 220 Ali with his speed and 8o" reach would dice Vitali up easily ...

[Seamus]

You wheezing, adolescent queens are still wooing about your heroes?

Jesus, give it a break and move on.

[McGrain]

You wheezing, adolescent queens are still wooing about your heroes?.

:lol:

I hate your whining bullshit, but even I have to admit that this is a cracking line.

[PetethePrince]

But Punchy,

Sanders won one round. Lewis won two rounds. Besides, Ali isn't in their class as a punch, and does not have their style. I fail to see a comparison here. As I stated before, Ali had trouble with active jabbers on multiple occasions.

If you want to look at matches where Vitlai fought boxer types, see Donald, Bean, or Johnson fail to do anything.

Also is Aerolla is too small, then Ali's even smaller.

Adamek is taller than Arreola. And Adamek is listed at 6'1 1/2 so I think there's something off with Arreola's height measurements.

Besides, Ali will fight tall, and probably is taller anyway.

[Boxed Ears]

Adamek is taller than Arreola. And Adamek is listed at 6'1 1/2 so I think there's something off with Arreola's height measurements.

Besides, Ali will fight tall, and probably is taller anyway.

There's got to be something off with both of their listed measurements for the pictures of them side-by-side to make any sense. I mean, they must have rounded up Arreola's height on his best day and rounded down Adamek's height on his worst day and then cut off Arreola's feet because damn.

[MrPook]

Ali stops him late on cuts. My bet.

[PetethePrince]

There's got to be something off with both of their listed measurements for the pictures of them side-by-side to make any sense. I mean, they must have rounded up Arreola's height on his best day and rounded down Adamek's height on his worst day and then cut off Arreola's feet because damn.

Yeah, and now in the weigh in pics Arreola looks slightly taller. Something is still off regardless.

[kenmore]

Ali wins a decision. There is no possible way that Ali could stop Vitali. Ali would win comfortably on the cards, but Vitali would give a good account of himself over all.

[tommygun711]

Ali wins a decision. There is no possible way that Ali could stop Vitali. Ali would win comfortably on the cards, but Vitali would give a good account of himself over all.
it's quite possible that Ali could stop him on cuts.. Actually it's possible for any boxer to stop another boxer if they get a picture perfect punch on them... even if it is unlikely, it's still possible.
i think he may stop him on cuts.

[SuzieQ49]

There is a great interview with Emanuel Steward discussing Vitali's place in heavyweight history. Steward states that Vitali knows his legacy is based on his tough, gritty, albeit losing performance against Lewis. I think his legacy will be greatly enhanced by the fact that he was able to come back so well after a five year layoff and perform the way he has performed. That is a testament to his great conditioning and the fact that he never let himself go and get out of shape.

However, because the last ten years of so have been a very dismal time in heavyweight history Vitali had no chance to really be tested the way someone like Ali obviously was. Steward rightfully states that Vitali basically fought and beat essentially a bunch of stiffs (nobodies). Steward also said that Vitali's legacy could be enhanced by beating a David Haye or Valuev.


Good. Even Steward admits Vitali has a shit resume. I wonder how mendoza feels about this.

[punchy]

But Punchy,

Sanders won one round. Lewis won two rounds. Besides, Ali isn't in their class as a punch, and does not have their style. I fail to see a comparison here. As I stated before, Ali had trouble with active jabbers on multiple occasions.

If you want to look at matches where Vitlai fought boxer types, see Donald, Bean, or Johnson fail to do anything.

Also is Aerolla is too small, then Ali's even smaller.

Ali is a larger man than Aerolla, Aerolla is carrying too much weight for his frame, Ali's reach is the same as Vitali's and he is much faster and even more athletic. The damage Lewis did to Vitali's face showed he was able to land the right consistently and I see Ali doing the same and stopping him in a similar way. I am bot a Vitali hater he is to my thinking an all time top twenty fighter but I don't see him beating Ali.

[Mendoza]

There is a great interview with Emanuel Steward discussing Vitali's place in heavyweight history. Steward states that Vitali knows his legacy is based on his tough, gritty, albeit losing performance against Lewis. I think his legacy will be greatly enhanced by the fact that he was able to come back so well after a five year layoff and perform the way he has performed. That is a testament to his great conditioning and the fact that he never let himself go and get out of shape.

However, because the last ten years of so have been a very dismal time in heavyweight history Vitali had no chance to really be tested the way someone like Ali obviously was. Steward rightfully states that Vitali basically fought and beat essentially a bunch of stiffs (nobodies). Steward also said that Vitali's legacy could be enhanced by beating a David Haye or Valuev.

Good. Even Steward admits Vitali has a shit resume. I wonder how mendoza feels about this.

This is not what Steward directly said, it is a poster saying this. Steward never said Vitali essentially beat a bunch of stiffs. Dream on.

Vitali's accomplishments are good. Its not his fault Lewis balked from the re-match. Haye also backed out of a fight with Vitali too. It seems the best guys do want Vitali if there is an easier way out. That speaks volumes about how good he is. Steward said next to Tyson and Liston, Vitali is the most intimidating fighter he has seen.

Vitali at age 38, soon to be 39 is not done. He is still very formidable, and could whip Povektin, or Haye. By the time Ali was 38, he was done. In fact I think Vitali would beat the 1970-1976 version of Ali. And it was in this time line where Ali made his legacy by beating Frazier, Foreman, Lyle and Norton.

Ali's legacy in the 60's was fair, but most people view the Liston fights as odd events as Sonny either quit or took a dive in the 2nd match, and opted out in the first match. In the first match Liston might be guilty of shenanigans by burring Ali's eyes. When that did not work, he quit on a shoulder injury that did not require surgery. By the way other fighters have accused Liston of cheating. Ali got away with illegal clinching behind the head. If there was a ref who enforced the rules, the Frazier match might have played out differently. I think Futch said he counted 70+ times ( anyone want to look it up for me ) where Ali clinchced Frazier behind the head. No way Ali can clinch Vitlai like that. He's going to have to trade punches, and reach way up there. No way the rope a dope work with Vitlai either. Kevin Johnson tried it, and lost every round.

[Ponysmallhorse]

Ali is a larger man than Aerolla, Aerolla is carrying too much weight for his frame, Ali's reach is the same as Vitali's and he is much faster and even more athletic. The damage Lewis did to Vitali's face showed he was able to land the right consistently and I see Ali doing the same and stopping him in a similar way. I am bot a Vitali hater he is to my thinking an all time top twenty fighter but I don't see him beating Ali.
To be fair Lewis is MUCH bigger puncher then ALi. Also Lewis has big reach and height advantage. And I can't see Ali cutting Vitalis face same way Lewis did.
You should also remember that Vitaly was in pretty big disadvantage in Lewis fight in terms of experience. He was lost in many situations and fought on pure instincts. I guess Vitaly got a LOT better after Lewis fight. He knows now how to deal with clinch and how to mange a fight.
I'm not saying Vitaly will beat him FOR SURE. But I guess if Norton could then why not Vit? I can bet that Holmes would be much harder to beat for Vit.

[Boxed Ears]

Ali is a larger man than Aerolla, Aerolla is carrying too much weight for his frame, Ali's reach is the same as Vitali's and he is much faster and even more athletic. The damage Lewis did to Vitali's face showed he was able to land the right consistently and I see Ali doing the same and stopping him in a similar way. I am bot a Vitali hater he is to my thinking an all time top twenty fighter but I don't see him beating Ali.

Who?

[PetethePrince]

Yes, 60's Ali legacy is fair but Vitali's legacy triumphs even the 60's part of Ali's legacy.

Dream on Mendoza.

Ali was done because he took on wars in a golden age of HW fighting. Vitali isn't done because he fights a bunch of fat stiffs that can't move forward with half of their midsection rolling around. Yes, Vitali keeps himself in shape too. Nobody denies this.

So basically, in this entire thread of defending Vitali you do think prime Ali beats him? You pick only the 70-76 version (What a wide gap) of Vitali beating Ali. By the way, I would say any Ali up to the Rumble in the Jungle would beat Vitali. Just because he did it with Foreman doesn't mean he will with Vitali. In fact, I think a fight with Vitali could look a bit like his fight with Bugner. And Bugner is wayyyy faster than Vitali. Albeit, not superior though.

[SuzieQ49]

In fact I think Vitali would beat the 1970-1976 version of Ali. And it was in this time line where Ali made his legacy by beating Frazier, Foreman, Lyle and Norton.

:lol:

[Fighting Weight]

Vitali's accomplishments are good. Its not his fault Lewis balked from the re-match. Haye also backed out of a fight with Vitali too. It seems the best guys do want Vitali if there is an easier way out. That speaks volumes about how good he is. Steward said next to Tyson and Liston, Vitali is the most intimidating fighter he has seen.

Vitali at age 38, soon to be 39 is not done. He is still very formidable, and could whip Povektin, or Haye. By the time Ali was 38, he was done. In fact I think Vitali would beat the 1970-1976 version of Ali. And it was in this time line where Ali made his legacy by beating Frazier, Foreman, Lyle and Norton.

Ali's legacy in the 60's was fair, but most people view the Liston fights as odd events as Sonny either quit or took a dive in the 2nd match, and opted out in the first match. In the first match Liston might be guilty of shenanigans by burring Ali's eyes. When that did not work, he quit on a shoulder injury that did not require surgery. By the way other fighters have accused Liston of cheating. Ali got away with illegal clinching behind the head. If there was a ref who enforced the rules, the Frazier match might have played out differently. I think Futch said he counted 70+ times ( anyone want to look it up for me ) where Ali clinchced Frazier behind the head. No way Ali can clinch Vitlai like that. He's going to have to trade punches, and reach way up there. No way the rope a dope work with Vitlai either. Kevin Johnson tried it, and lost every round.

Ah, the old rematch chestnut again....is that it? The legend of VITLAY is based on the fact that he couldn't beat an old, undertrained champion and bitched about not getting a rematch? Maybe it's not VITLAYS fault that there was no rematch, but it's definately 100% VITLAYS fault that he even needed one. If he were any damn good he'd have won the fight first time round :deal

Haye backed out of a VITLAY fight, sure, VITLAY backed out of about 4 Rahman fights, as we all know.

Yes Ali was done at 38, he fought on with Parkinsons disease when he was 10% of the fighter he once was. The mighty VITLAY quit in his prime against a feather fist because he had a sore arm, the same shit you're mocking Liston for doing - I note the hasty inclusion of "did not require surgery" after you said it though :lol::lol::lol::lol:

I've saved the funniest one for last though....Kevin Johnson couldn't make the rope a dope work so neither could Ali, obviously :shock::patsch

[SuzieQ49]

I have one question for all boxing fans out there. Who has Vitali ever beaten that is very good?



Haye backed out of a VITLAY fight, sure, VITLAY backed out of about 4 Rahman fights, as we all know.


:good

[Fighting Weight]

I have one question for all boxing fans out there. Who has Vitali ever beaten that is good?

He beat Lewis in the rematch.

In a poll in the General Forum.

But only just.

[SuzieQ49]

Why did Vitali pull out of the Rahman fight so many times, then pretend like he was going to fight him, then suddenly retire 2 days before the fight?

[Fighting Weight]

Why did Vitali pull out of the Rahman fight so many times, then pretend like he was going to fight him, then suddenly retire 2 days before the fight?

Apparently, this means he is a coward and a bitch.

But for some reason criteria that gets applied to normal fighters doesn't get applied to the Klitschkos - hence Ali was "almost knocked out" agaist Cooper yet VITLAY was "tripped" against Sanders, and didn't hold on for dear life when Lewis nearly took his head clean off with that uppercut :nut

[Mendoza]

Fighting WeightI've saved the funniest one for last though....Kevin Johnson couldn't make the rope a dope work so neither could Ali, obviously

If you think Ali could rope a dope vitali you haven't got a clue. The rope a dope works on fighters that lack stamina, do not fight smart, and punch themselves out, not vs guys who throw on average 70 punches a round and are more tactical in attack.

Ali tired the rope a dope on Lyle. The result was he was DOWN on points, and had to switch his style in the late in the fight to win. Your just a lounge act.

[Mendoza]

Apparently, this means he is a coward and a bitch.

Lewis acted like a jerk in the interview after the fight. He said he would give a re-match He told the press he would give a re-match. He talked junk. He hoped Kirk Johnson would win...but he didn't than he waited somemore. 15-18 million was there for Lewis to take the fight he kept talking about. Fans wanted to see Klitschko vs. Lewis II

The WBC told Lewis to take the re-match or lose your belt!. Lewis exited stage left as quitely as possible....because he knew he wasn't going to win the re-match. Those are the facts. Blind Lewis fans or Birts have to deal with it, just like that have to deal with the fact that Lewis was in fact Ko'd twice by one punch.

I wonder how upset Lewis fans would be if Rhaman or McCall opted out their re-match?

[SuzieQ49]

Lewis was 38 years old at the time of the requested rematch. He was old, overweight, and ready for retirement.


Rhaman or McCall opted out their re-match?


were mccall or rahman 38 years old and ready for retirement?

[Fighting Weight]

Lewis acted like a jerk in the interview after the fight.

The post fight interview where VITLAY came over to him, crying like a faggot and punching Lewis in the arm begging for a rematch....that interview you mean?

Yeah Lewis really acted like a jerk in that one :patsch

I see you're still struggling with the concept of challengers getting one shot, even after all these years. Lewis did not have to beat VITLAY twice at 38 years of age to prove his superiority. At that age, once is enough, and it'll always be remembered that way too. Lewis, TKO6 :smoke

Yep, Lewis was KO'd twice...both avenged. VITLAY has never avenged a defeat and was "almost knocked out" against a fat dougnut injecting golfer and 38 year old Lennox Lewis.

[Fighting Weight]

If you think Ali could rope a dope vitali you haven't got a clue. The rope a dope works on fighters that lack stamina, do not fight smart, and punch themselves out, not vs guys who throw on average 70 punches a round and are more tactical in attack.

Ali tired the rope a dope on Lyle. The result was he was DOWN on points, and had to switch his style in the late in the fight to win. Your just a lounge act.

So Ali lost the event against Lyle then? Funny how 30 years later no-ones bitching about there being no rematch.....Ali was down on the cards too, the ultimate sin :rofl

Please stop with the 70 punches per round bullshit with VITLAY too, he throws 70 punches per round against guys that don't fight back

Again, Ali is not Kevin Johnson - and VITLAY is not Lyle either :nut

[SuzieQ49]

Vitali also throws a lot of arm punches. Ive hardly ever seen him use his body torque and punch with leverage. I doubt he has the coordination too do so.

[groove]

ali or clay then was 20 when he fought doug jones. he'd been pro not long but still fighting the best contenders at such an early age. he got the title at just 22 & at his peak he was 24/25 then banned undefeated champ in the peoples eyes. how old were fighters like the legendary rocky marciano when they even won the title?

[Jersey Joe]

Vitali is not a pressure fighter, which is the best style vs a slick fast boxer, and he has slow hands and feet. Ali has lightning fast hand and foot speed. Ali wil be elusive and accurate with his jab and right hands from the outside IMO, and will clinch on the inside. Vitali would hit air all night and his face would get slowly cut to ribbons. Ali wins by TKO on cuts late in the fight.

[combatesdeboxeo]

Ali would win for sure, i do not know if he would do by ud or tko by cuts. Vitali is good and movile for his size, but is too slow compared with ali. Ali would outbox him without great problems. And vitali has the same reach than ali.

[Kalasinn]

Vitali by KO/TKO: Bummy Davis ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Dnipro ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), frankenfrank ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Mordechai ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), sompong ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Squire ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), trainer ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Vitali by decision: BoxingWM ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Brummy1976 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Ezzard ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Mendoza ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Sardu ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

:lol:

[turpinr]

ali beats one of the brothers and then beats the other.he then asks them "how come you are so dull, what happened to heavies after lennox lewis ?"

[jc]

Ali comfortable UD. Hands and feet too far, too much variety of punche. Will make Klitschko look slow.

[tommygun711]

Why would you revive this dead thread again ?

Anyways Ali outclasses Vitali anyday. Even 74 Ali.

[werety]

There is a great interview with Emanuel Steward discussing Vitali's place in heavyweight history. Steward states that Vitali knows his legacy is based on his tough, gritty, albeit losing performance against Lewis. I think his legacy will be greatly enhanced by the fact that he was able to come back so well after a five year layoff and perform the way he has performed. That is a testament to his great conditioning and the fact that he never let himself go and get out of shape.

However, because the last ten years of so have been a very dismal time in heavyweight history Vitali had no chance to really be tested the way someone like Ali obviously was. Steward rightfully states that Vitali basically fought and beat essentially a bunch of stiffs (nobodies). Steward also said that Vitali's legacy could be enhanced by beating a David Haye or Valuev.



This is not what Steward directly said, it is a poster saying this. Steward never said Vitali essentially beat a bunch of stiffs. Dream on.

Vitali's accomplishments are good. Its not his fault Lewis balked from the re-match. Haye also backed out of a fight with Vitali too. It seems the best guys do want Vitali if there is an easier way out. That speaks volumes about how good he is. Steward said next to Tyson and Liston, Vitali is the most intimidating fighter he has seen.

Vitali at age 38, soon to be 39 is not done. He is still very formidable, and could whip Povektin, or Haye. By the time Ali was 38, he was done. In fact I think Vitali would beat the 1970-1976 version of Ali. And it was in this time line where Ali made his legacy by beating Frazier, Foreman, Lyle and Norton.

Ali's legacy in the 60's was fair, but most people view the Liston fights as odd events as Sonny either quit or took a dive in the 2nd match, and opted out in the first match. In the first match Liston might be guilty of shenanigans by burring Ali's eyes. When that did not work, he quit on a shoulder injury that did not require surgery. By the way other fighters have accused Liston of cheating. Ali got away with illegal clinching behind the head. If there was a ref who enforced the rules, the Frazier match might have played out differently. I think Futch said he counted 70+ times ( anyone want to look it up for me ) where Ali clinchced Frazier behind the head. No way Ali can clinch Vitlai like that. He's going to have to trade punches, and reach way up there. No way the rope a dope work with Vitlai either. Kevin Johnson tried it, and lost every round.

Why have you not responded to Mcgrain's post where where he proved you were bullshitting about the Ali Cooper fight? At least admit you were utterly and completely wrong about Ali being "nearly knocked out."

[combatesdeboxeo]

Vitali by KO/TKO: Bummy Davis ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Dnipro ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), frankenfrank ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Mordechai ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), sompong ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Squire ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), trainer ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Vitali by decision: BoxingWM ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Brummy1976 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Ezzard ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Mendoza ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Sardu ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

:lol:

:rofl:rofl:rofl:D LOOOOOL HOW DO YOU KNOW IT?

[crippet]

Since this isn't the GF and the Klithuggers need more support in getting out the vote here's some hometown help for Vit (it is about Wlad but it is nearly the same thing really <g>). More than a few good GF type points to get the ball rolling ...

Vladimir Klitschko much better than Muhammad Ali

I really love boxing. This was huge sport in Soviet Union. My friend from army was name Yuri. We both went to army together as young boys to be trained as infantry. Because our schooling was in mechanics, we were spared ground duty in Afghanastan. Instead we spent long hours on base in very hot weather working on ground vehicles. Many hours we spent talking about sports and our favorites were always boxing. Olympic boxing was so much better during days of Soviet Union compared to now. Then, they fought hard and well. Today, too much padding around head and no more knockouts. Best matchups were always against Americans. Almost always, Soviet Union won but not all the time. Gold medal in boxing always mean becoming huge hero in Soviet Union. Klitschko and Ali have many similarities. Both were considered best of their time. Both win gold medals in Olympics. And both are huge heros in their countries. Klitschko has many homes all over but he will always be Soviet Union to me. His father was important man in army but I did not know him. Klitschko is much taller than Ali and that gives him big advantage over the smaller Ali. Klitschko also much smarter and would find a way to beat Ali. Ali was not that smart. Unlike Klitschko, he never got doctor degree. Ali did not even pass army test and then refused to go into army because of Vietnam. I don't agree with not fighting for your country. In Soviet Union, this is act of traitor. People just didn't do this. They go to work camp and never seen again. Yuri hated army but I didn't mind because I was doing my best for Soviet Union. Klitschko is in military family and I like that very much. This makes man stronger in ring. Ali boxed much to long. His last fight was big news in Soviet Union because he was nearly killed. Now he is sick and old. I liked very much how Ali used to talk but it is sad to listen to him now. Even though I did not agree with Ali on war, I understood his big fear of fighting. Not all men can fight in army. I must make it clear that I did not fight in Afghanastan. I had a weapon but never fired it. Instead I worked on cars and trucks for soldiers. I always did my best because they were brave and needed my best work to fight against enemy. It is funny to me that Americans used to hate Soviet Union for fighting in Afghanastan. Huge misunderstanding. Taliban was never freedom fighters like Americans wanted to believe back than. Now America understands that they were terrorists but it is sadly to late. Soviet Union was never fooled by terrorists like United States was at that time. If two countries worked together instead of cold war, maybe no more terrorists today. We will never know but it is what I think. I remember Yuri telling me that Americans were also in Afghanastan helping our enemy but I never saw any so I did not believe him. Instead we talk about boxing because we did not want to fight over politics that we had no control over anyways. We were different in thinking but best of friends. I don't understand why Vladimir changed his name to Wladimir to sound more German. And he fights to much in Germany. Either fight in America for more money or go and fight in Russia to make people very happy. And maybe also in Ukraine which used to be Soviet Union. I think Klitschko could beat Ali in boxing match but I know for sure he would destroy Ali if he was trained during days of Soviet Union. He is perfect in every way. American media don't give him enough respect because he is from old Soviet Union and not United States. If Klitschko was from USA he would be a big hero here. Everybody would love him.

:D


Vlad is greater than Ali due to having a phd???

I wonder how Vlad would fare against Stephen Hawking? Funnily enough they both talk with a similar accent......

[tommygun711]

Then here is all the sensible people that voted for Ali by Decision
196osh ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), 1_man_army ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Abdullah ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), adampbarr ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Addie ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), AMCBOMB ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Apollo ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), AussieMauler ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Axl_Nose ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), bg0 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), bighappy ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), bigjake ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), biglads ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Bill Butcher ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Bill1234 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Billy 2 Gats ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Bing ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), bleed_oil ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Blood Green ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), BoxingFanNo1 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Boxinglad123 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), boxsensei ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Briscoe ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), bum of the week ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Casey91 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), cesare-borgia ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), CF Gauss ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), ChrisPontius ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), clinikill ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), combatesdeboxeo ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), crippet ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), DemolitionDan ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), dezbeast ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), DudeGuyMan ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), elgoadie ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), emallini ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Escopeta ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), exwrestler ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), fg2227 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), fininan ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Gander Tasco ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), groove ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Harman ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Hookie ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Jake_ ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Jappa ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), jc ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), johnmaff36 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), junior-soprano ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Kalasinn ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Karl Jade ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), keith ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), kenmore ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), kickbxn5 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), KOTF ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), lefthook89 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), mani0 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), McGrain ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), mckay_89 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), mcvey ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), mightyd40 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Mr Butt ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), MrMarvel ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Neverchair ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Pachilles ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), PetethePrince ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), PhillyPhan69 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), popejking ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), PowerPuncher ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), prime ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), pugilist_boyd ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), punchy ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Quick Cash ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), rccwilliams ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), rekcutnevets ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Reuben ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), reznick ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), rinsj ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), RockyJim ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Rubber Warrior ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Schmapps ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Seamus ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), silenc ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Son of Gaul ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), stephen ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), The Wanderer ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), TheBeatKonducta ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Thread Stealer ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), tommygun711 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Vanboxingfan ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Wu-Gambino ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), yanus ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), young griffo ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[DDDUUDDDEE]

Ali by clear, but close, UD.

Vitali causes him alot of problems along the way with his size advantage and awkward style though.

[tommygun711]

Ali by clear, but close, UD.

Vitali causes him alot of problems along the way with his size advantage and awkward style though.
No I don't even think it would be close.
Ali would be ahead a few points.

[bigjake]

[quote=Stevie G;6612838]Very similar to my scenario on this one. It would resemble the Ernie Terrel fight,imo.
ali would make a fight with vitali look like a sparring session.hes not in ali's league at all,just being bigger won't be enough in this case ali eats him up

[Boxed Ears]

You know who would've knocked out Ali is that Allan Green. Ali was prone to left hooks landing on him.

[Bokaj]

I like Wlad's chances much better. I think he really would give Ali a fight.

[Jorodz]

14 pages? ali wins

[DDDUUDDDEE]

You know who would've knocked out Ali is that Allan Green. Ali was prone to left hooks landing on him.

Harry Greb would have gave him a hiding too, man.

[Kalasinn]

I like Wlad's chances much better. I think he really would give Ali a fight.

To what degree?

[Boxed Ears]

14 pages? ali wins

We can only say for certain if Ali hadn't have ducked really tall Ukranians while fighting random short American guys like Frazier and Shavers and whoever throughout his career. :conf

[DDDUUDDDEE]

Still not as bad as Frazier though.

Don't even get me started on Joe fucking lizard man Frazier again.

[Boxed Ears]

Still not as bad as Frazier though.

Don't even get me started on Joe fucking lizard man Frazier again.

:lol: We did good work on that thread.

[DDDUUDDDEE]

The people deserve to know the truth.

[Jorodz]

We can only say for certain if Ali hadn't have ducked really tall Ukranians while fighting random short American guys like Frazier and Shavers and whoever throughout his career. :conf

:lol:who the fuck is frazier? ohhhh, you must mean marvis frazier. that guy was a legend

[Bokaj]

To what degree?

These things are of course extremely hypothetical, but I think Ali may just have to be at his sharpest to beat him. He wouldn't really be able to exploit Wlad's vulnerabilities against power and agreession, and I think Wlad's jab and right would give him problems. I may actually give Wlad a better chance than just about anybody else. Very hypothetical, of course.

[gentleman jim]

I see this as a similar fight to Ali vs Bugner only Vitali doesn't have Bugner's mobility. Ali would pot shot his way to a clear decision using his superior hand and foot speed. Vitaly is big and strong and takes a good shot so I don't think Ali ko's him but gives him a boxing lesson all night long. Vitaly certainly isn't knocking Ali out so outboxing him is his only chance and let's face it fellas...that aint happening. Ali unanimous decision.

[combatesdeboxeo]

I like Wlad's chances much better. I think he really would give Ali a fight.
:rofl:rofl:rofl

[Azzer85]

Ali cuts Vitalis face open.