Top Superfeathers of today VS Top SFW 5 yrs ago.

[PacDbest]

I got this from Boxrec Forum(Courtesy of JAHamilton77) & I think it will be interesting to discuss it here:






I was wondering how the big four super featherweights (130) of the last 2 years.

Marco Antonio Barrera
Juan Manuel Marquez (just joined the division)
Erik Morales (Not so hot anymore)
Manny Pacquiao

would fair against the previous of 4 to reign over the division.

Floyd Mayweather jr.
Diego Corrales
Acelino Freitas
Joel Casamayor

I am thinking about the matchups of the guys when they were at their best in THIS division.

Now
Barrera (when he first moved up and beat Morales in 2004)
Morales (05 when he beat Pacquiao)
Pacquiao (Pretty much anytime since he moved up in 05)
Marquez (Now since the Barrera fight was his first at the weight)

Then
Mayweather (01 when he beat Corrales)
Corrales (00 when he smashed Manfreddy)
Freitas (02 when he beat Casamayor)
Casamayor (02 the fight with Freitas)

I was thinking the matchups would look like that
Barrera v Mayweather (the two real icons of the classes)
Morales v Corrales (the 2 largest men of the two groups, both more brawlers)
Pacquiao v Freitas (The two with the biggest/fastest punches)
Marquez v Casamayor (the two defensive vounterpunchers)

of course you could flip flob the two groups of brawlers & the two groups of techniciians, but lets stick with these for now.

Which group would come out on top?

[Amsterdam]

The group that glorifies Pacquaio, of course.

That's what you wish to hear correct?:D

[MSTR]

Delete. Bad post.

[MSTR]

Actually, Casa could have probably caused problems for Morales and maybe even Barerra. Also, the second group are naturally bigger guys, so although I think Pac and Morales are better technical fighters, size may be a factor.

Good thread, I am too tired to really give it proper thought right now.

[PacDbest]

For me what separates Pac & PBF from the rest are speed. If they made a rd robin of all the fighters Pac & PBF will still be on top.

On Pac-PBF match up, I still favor Pac coz Pac will be on his Prime while PBF is still young & untested against Great fighters.

Today's Group of SFW probably wins although they are the naturally smaller & Older bunch because these guys for sure will be HOFamers & more talented, Greater Chins & better offensive fighters.

On the 2000+ Group only PBF is a sure fire HOFamer, the others don't really shine during their Prime.

[Amsterdam]

Floyd KO's Pac at 130.

[PacDbest]

Floyd KO's Pac at 130.

Just like you said Darchinyan will KO Nonito easy?????

[digiram]

Just like you said Darchinyan will KO Nonito easy?????

You seriously think that Pacman can beat PBF??? :rofl :rofl

This is ridiculous.

I'm a big PBF fan, but I'm not making threads about how PBF can move up to 168 and ko Joe Calzahge.

[Morrissey]

For me what separates Pac & PBF from the rest are speed. If they made a rd robin of all the fighters Pac & PBF will still be on top.

On Pac-PBF match up, I still favor Pac coz Pac will be on his Prime while PBF is still young & untested against Great fighters.

Today's Group of SFW probably wins although they are the naturally smaller & Older bunch because these guys for sure will be HOFamers & more talented, Greater Chins & better offensive fighters.

On the 2000+ Group only PBF is a sure fire HOFamer, the others don't really shine during their Prime.

I am not playing a devil's advocate here, but PBF toyed with the comp in 130. Hence, he would be undefeated in those mythical match-ups. He was in a diff. league. Sorry to break that up to you.:D

Anyway, Casamayor may beat all of them (except PBF but that could have been an excellent fight).

You failed to factor in that the current group are already at the tail end of their careers (except for Pac and Morales) when they went up to 130, while the other groups started there and hence, they are the naturally bigger guys are were in there prime.

[Amsterdam]

Just like you said Darchinyan will KO Nonito easy?????

I never said that, I actually was one of the people who gave Nonito a shot.

[PATSYS]

I got this from Boxrec Forum(Courtesy of JAHamilton77) & I think it will be interesting to discuss it here:






I was wondering how the big four super featherweights (130) of the last 2 years.

Marco Antonio Barrera
Juan Manuel Marquez (just joined the division)
Erik Morales (Not so hot anymore)
Manny Pacquiao

would fair against the previous of 4 to reign over the division.

Floyd Mayweather jr.
Diego Corrales
Acelino Freitas
Joel Casamayor

I am thinking about the matchups of the guys when they were at their best in THIS division.

Now
Barrera (when he first moved up and beat Morales in 2004)
Morales (05 when he beat Pacquiao)
Pacquiao (Pretty much anytime since he moved up in 05)
Marquez (Now since the Barrera fight was his first at the weight)

Then
Mayweather (01 when he beat Corrales)
Corrales (00 when he smashed Manfreddy)
Freitas (02 when he beat Casamayor)
Casamayor (02 the fight with Freitas)

I was thinking the matchups would look like that
Barrera v Mayweather (the two real icons of the classes)
Morales v Corrales (the 2 largest men of the two groups, both more brawlers)
Pacquiao v Freitas (The two with the biggest/fastest punches)
Marquez v Casamayor (the two defensive vounterpunchers)

of course you could flip flob the two groups of brawlers & the two groups of techniciians, but lets stick with these for now.

Which group would come out on top?

I think it is unfair because Pac, JMM, MAB and Morales' primes were not really at 130 lbs.

I think they will all be competitive to say the least.

But if there is a tourney winner vs winner...

Pac takes home the crown, wins by KO.

[ripcity]

This is how I rank them at 130. This dose not reflect how how O think any future match-up real or fanasty would go
1. Floyd Mayweather jr.
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Marco Antonio Barrera
4. Diego Corrales
5. Acelino Freitas
6. Joel Casamayor
7. Erik Morales
8. Juan Manuel Marquez

[kg0208]

Just like you said Darchinyan will KO Nonito easy?????
Just like you picked Rojas to beat Arce:deal

PBF at 130 was tested by Genaro Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, along with Corrales. He fought good fighters at 130, better than Pacman has fought so far overall.

He stops Pacman in 8 or less. Casamayor gives everyone else hell, especially Morales and MAB.

[PacDbest]

Just like you picked Rojas to beat Arce:deal

PBF at 130 was tested by Genaro Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, along with Corrales. He fought good fighters at 130, better than Pacman has fought so far overall.

He stops Pacman in 8 or less. Casamayor gives everyone else hell, especially Morales and MAB.

Yup but Rojas was winning on all cards, 2 are shutout, that means I got close on my prediction, Arce just got lucky.

Genaro is old, where's Chavez now???, We knew how Corrales Chin are.
Pac will beat them too in their Prime way more impressive than Floyd.

[Amsterdam]

Yup but Rojas was winning on all cards, 2 are shutout, that means I got close on my prediction, Arce just got lucky.

Genaro is old, where's Chavez now???, We knew how Corrales Chin are.
Pac will beat them too in their Prime way more impressive than Floyd.

On the contrary, Genero prime has a good shot at Pac. As does Chavez.

Corrales would likely KO him.

[kg0208]

Yup but Rojas was winning on all cards, 2 are shutout, that means I got close on my prediction, Arce just got lucky.

Genaro is old, where's Chavez now???, We knew how Corrales Chin are.
Pac will beat them too in their Prime way more impressive than Floyd. Blah blah blah....if you're gonna point out other people's wrong predictions, don't go making excuses for yours. Just say you were wrong and shut up about it. Always got excuses.....

Genaro was old? Genaro had just turned 32....younger than Barrera is now, and only a year older than Morales and you hate when people say their old:deal He hadn't been in a ton of wars eithers like Morales and Barrera. Genaro could certainly beat Pacman at the age he fought PBF. Pacman could also pressure him and stop him.

Chavez JUST lost his lightweight title, thats where he is now. Still a championship level fighter. Is there an issue there? You think thats not accomplishing something?

Corrales had a shaky chin and even better power than Pacman. :deal He probably starches Pacman as he is too tall for Pacman to get close to without taking those power punches. Oh and Pacman can be KO'd, remember? He could KO Corrales, but he would have to take some massive bombs to do it. Not like Morales and MAB.

PBF stomps Pacman at 130. He is bigger, stronger, and FASTER than Pacman there. Total mismatch.

[kg0208]

PBF vs ANY of the guys at 130 you listed is a mismatch.

He is far too big and fast at that weight for any of them. MAB gets outboxed to a wide UD, Morales gets stopped on plain punishment because he would try to go to war, and JMM just gets UD in a one sided fight.

Casamayor can beat any of them, depending on who the judges are :good

[PacDbest]

Blah blah blah....if you're gonna point out other people's wrong predictions, don't go making excuses for yours. Just say you were wrong and shut up about it. Always got excuses.....

Genaro was old? Genaro had just turned 32....younger than Barrera is now, and only a year older than Morales and you hate when people say their old:deal He hadn't been in a ton of wars eithers like Morales and Barrera. Genaro could certainly beat Pacman at the age he fought PBF.

Chavez JUST lost his lightweight title, thats where he is now. Still a championship level fighter. Is there an issue there? You think thats not accomplishing something?

Corrales had a shaky chin and even better power than Pacman. :deal He probably starches Pacman as he is too tall for Pacman to get close to without taking those power punches. Oh and Pacman can be KO'd, remember?

PBF stomps Pacman at 130. He is bigger, stronger, and FASTER than Pacman there. Total mismatch.


I said I'm leaning on Rojas. That's different than Rojas by KO. I was wrong with the results, but right on the scenario. A lot of guys said Rojas is a bum, me said he's a tough boxer & I am right.

Pac beat MAB & EM when they were 29, MAB in now 33 but we knew Pac will win easy.

Chavez lost to Pac's victim Morales. Pac has nothing to gain by beating Chavez. Pac > EM > Chavez , that's easy math.

Corrales can't even finished Casa & St Clair. Where did Chico Proved he's got Extra ordinary Power??? Freitas?? Feather fisted Diaz stopped him sooner. Castillo??? Hatton KO that guy in one punch.

don't worry about Pac-PBF at 130, it won't happen. but I bet you it will happen in 2 years time at 140-147 lbs. And Pac will be on top, first to KO PBF. And your excuse will be Pac beat an old guy.:bbb

[Lance_Uppercut]

Barrera v Mayweather (the two real icons of the classes)
Mayweather by 9th round TKO. I don't think Barrera has the size to keep a much bigger and stronger Mayweather off him. And this is when Floyd was more aggressive then he is today. MAB is a fine boxer, but here he is simply outclassed.

Morales v Corrales (the 2 largest men of the two groups, both more brawlers)

This might be hard to gaurge. Morales @ 130 was never his best weight. But being at 130 was also burdensome for Chico as this was straining his lanky frame. Still, I would have to go with Chico here. Morales was too much of a warrior to fight intelligently, and tkaing bombs from Chico isn't a good idea.

Pacquiao v Freitas (The two with the biggest/fastest punches)
I think Freitas would win. He's quick in the hands, with very good power. Plus his awkward style might give him something Pac hasn't seen.

Marquez v Casamayor (the two defensive vounterpunchers)

Casa by a close UD. This would be a tactful fight, but Casa is a stong fighter for 130, and knows how to fight to his advantage.
---------

I guess I picked the previous era 130ers, but mainly because none of the current top 130ers are natual 130ers (or higher) as the other guys are.

[Amsterdam]

Wow Lance, do you really think it'd take 9 rounds for a 130 Mayweather to dispose of the 130 version of Barrera? Or even better, do you think the 130 Casamayor has any trouble KOing the faded 130 version of Juan Manuel Marquez, who enjoys a nice size disadvantage?

Damn, and Marquez is one of my all time favourites.

At least you got Freitas and Corrales realistically, but lets go into threads and harp on other poster's views mate.:yep

[PowerPuncher]

1. Mayweather
2. Cassamoya
3. Corrales
4. Pacman
5. Freitas
6. Barrera
7. Morales
8. Guzman
9. Chavez
10. Soto

[Lance_Uppercut]

Wow Lance, do you really think it'd take 9 rounds for a 130 Mayweather to dispose of the 130 version of Barrera? Or even better, do you think the 130 Casamayor has any trouble KOing the faded 130 version of Juan Manuel Marquez, who enjoys a nice size disadvantage?

Damn, and Marquez is one of my all time favourites.

At least you got Freitas and Corrales realistically, but lets go into threads and harp on other poster's views mate.:yep
I noticed you didn't make any of your own. Chickenshit? Or is it because they don't invovle Joe C or Taylor. Or maybe you just never seen these guys fight much. Nice one mr. playtime expert. :roll:

[Amsterdam]

I noticed you didn't make any of your own. Chickenshit? Or is it because they don't invovle Joe C or Taylor. Or maybe you just never seen these guys fight much. Nice one mr. playtime expert. :roll:

Of course I have seen them all, thus why I was able to respond back to the off examples that you posted. The thing that this proves however is that fights are watched are rose coloured sun glasses and not at face value, because Casa countering the hell out of the 130 faded version of Marquez and scoring a KO due to size and his sneaky power is easy to forsee, as is Casamayor totally controlling every aspect of the bout up until Marquez gets stopped.

Then with Floyd-Barrera, Barrera simply gets eaten alive here and lacks the polished defence to even make it 5 rounds. Marquez does not hit as hard as Floyd did at 130 and Marquez had Barrera hurt multiple occassions, now lets take Floyd's superior offensive arsenal and bodywork into the equation, as well as Barrera being able to amount to nothing offensively to offset Floyd and I think Floyd would get him in 3-5 rounds.

Both Barrera and Marquez are not the larger guys who drained down to 130 and these fights could be classified as mismatches, especially when given the state that Barrera and Marquez are in physically at 130 pounds and pacDbest's original question was which era beats the other, for the point of glorifying the era Pac fights in at 130.

Then I agreed that Freitas KO's Pac and Corrales KO's Morales.

[MSTR]

1. Mayweather - Toss up between him and Casamayor if they met at SFW
2. Casamayor
3. Corrales
4. Frietas

(big gap)

5. Pac
6. JMM
7. Barrera
8. Morales

The previous SFW's would crush the current crop. They all had belts while being undefeated at one point. The closest any division has been to having a fab 4 since the original of Hagler, Leonard, Duran and Hearns.

:nono Rubbish.

[MSTR]

Guys Pac has carried the weight pretty well though, and had his best wins at 126. 130 isn't that much of a stretch. I think against Corrales, he could win. He would have a great hand speed advantage, and most of Corrales power is off his hooks. This means he would need to get inside the straight punches of Pac to be effective. His only other weapon was the jab, which most times against southpaws can be in-effective.

Casamayor would have beaten MAB and Morales.

Frietas I honestly don't know, I think he is being over rated. Frietas was a good fighter, but I don't know if he was really as well rounded as MAB or Morales or JMM for that matter. He certainly doesn't have their heart or chin, which may have been a deciding factor.

Overall PBF woudl beat all of them, although i doubt by KO.

To those who said Morales would be done by KO, you can't really be serious.

We are talking close to prime Morales here aren't we, the guy whose chin was practically untouchable.

[MSTR]

Expand, those one word comments followed by an icon is what's rubbish.

Sorry I misread and thought you were saying the 4 best fighters to be in any one division since the fab 4. My mistake.

[mad_takamura]

I think the fundamental problem here is that the Top SFWs right now are all guys who started at around bantamweight and then moved up, while the fighters from five years ago started at 130 and have all moved up from there, although some more than others obviously. pac is the different of the younger batch: he started at flyweight,while the others: jmm., mab., em, all from bantam.

[Toopretty]

True, but exactly my point that the current guys are pretty much at their fighting size limit, while the guys from five years ago all had to drain themselves to make weight and have moved up in weight since. Floyd is at 147, Freitas and Casa are at 135, Corrales tried to jump to 140, as did Castillo.

I still believe Corrales ruined his health by having to lose so much weight to make 130. He should have never fought at that weight class. I think he would have had a lober career if he had started at 135. i think it affected his ability to take punches as well as recover after fights. Such a shame :-(

Thats bullshit.B/c Pac weighs in over 140 plus on fight night...thats more weight then floyd has ever put on at 130

[kg0208]

I said I'm leaning on Rojas. That's different than Rojas by KO. I was wrong with the results, but right on the scenario. A lot of guys said Rojas is a bum, me said he's a tough boxer & I am right.

Pac beat MAB & EM when they were 29, MAB in now 33 but we knew Pac will win easy.

Chavez lost to Pac's victim Morales. Pac has nothing to gain by beating Chavez. Pac > EM > Chavez , that's easy math.

Corrales can't even finished Casa & St Clair. Where did Chico Proved he's got Extra ordinary Power??? Freitas?? Feather fisted Diaz stopped him sooner. Castillo??? Hatton KO that guy in one punch.

don't worry about Pac-PBF at 130, it won't happen. but I bet you it will happen in 2 years time at 140-147 lbs. And Pac will be on top, first to KO PBF. And your excuse will be Pac beat an old guy.:bbb
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You didn't lean towards Rojas, you picked him to upset him (want me to post where you say "I picked an upset?") You were WRONG. Stop making excuses.

Like I said, MAB is older (and MUCH older in ring) than Hernandez was and I know you won't say MAB is old now...you only say these things about other fighters.

Corrales couldn't stop Casa and St Claire? Pacman couldn't stop JMM and Larios! Or are we only using that logic for everyone else? Corrales has a higher KO ratio than Pacman as well. Corrales hits harder than Pacman, not only at 130, but probably P4P as well. End of story there.

You didn't know who Chavez was!! That's why you made your statement. You went and looked up that he lost to Morales after I told you he just lost his title. Besides, who said he was better than Pacman? You said PBF was still untested at 130, I just pointed out the good fighters he fought there. Ikehara > Singsurat> Pacman right? That's the logic you just used right?

Hey, you brought up this 130 tourney. If you don't want to worry about it, don't discuss it or bring it up. If Pacman fights PBF at 140-147, he STILL gets beaten down.

[kg0208]

Guys Pac has carried the weight pretty well though, and had his best wins at 126. 130 isn't that much of a stretch. I think against Corrales, he could win. He would have a great hand speed advantage, and most of Corrales power is off his hooks. This means he would need to get inside the straight punches of Pac to be effective. His only other weapon was the jab, which most times against southpaws can be in-effective.

Casamayor would have beaten MAB and Morales.

Frietas I honestly don't know, I think he is being over rated. Frietas was a good fighter, but I don't know if he was really as well rounded as MAB or Morales or JMM for that matter. He certainly doesn't have their heart or chin, which may have been a deciding factor.

Overall PBF woudl beat all of them, although i doubt by KO.

To those who said Morales would be done by KO, you can't really be serious.

We are talking close to prime Morales here aren't we, the guy whose chin was practically untouchable.

Corrales is also 5 in taller than Pacman. His hooks would be devastating to the shorter fighter who would be struggling to get on the inside.

We're not talking about Prime Morales. There is no such thing as Prime Morales or MAB at 130. They were at their best below this weight. If Pacman can stop him, Corrales certainly could and PBF could stop him on accumilation of just a one sided beating.

[PacDbest]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You didn't lean towards Rojas, you picked him to upset him (want me to post where you say "I picked an upset?") You were WRONG. Stop making excuses.

Like I said, MAB is older (and MUCH older in ring) than Hernandez was and I know you won't say MAB is old now...you only say these things about other fighters.

Corrales couldn't stop Casa and St Claire? Pacman couldn't stop JMM and Larios! Or are we only using that logic for everyone else? Corrales has a higher KO ratio than Pacman as well. Corrales hits harder than Pacman, not only at 130, but probably P4P as well. End of story there.

You didn't know who Chavez was!! That's why you made your statement. You went and looked up that he lost to Morales after I told you he just lost his title. Besides, who said he was better than Pacman? You said PBF was still untested at 130, I just pointed out the good fighters he fought there. Ikehara > Singsurat> Pacman right? That's the logic you just used right?

Hey, you brought up this 130 tourney. If you don't want to worry about it, don't discuss it or bring it up. If Pacman fights PBF at 140-147, he STILL gets beaten down.

I was wrong with my pick , I already admit it right?? But I'm not like you guys that don't give a chance to Rojas. Same with Gerry & Nonito.
How do you predict this fight??? Did you predict tha Rojas will school Arce before the KO punch????

[PacDbest]

Corrales is also 5 in taller than Pacman. His hooks would be devastating to the shorter fighter who would be struggling to get on the inside.

We're not talking about Prime Morales. There is no such thing as Prime Morales or MAB at 130. They were at their best below this weight. If Pacman can stop him, Corrales certainly could and PBF could stop him on accumilation of just a one sided beating.

Chico is a short armed Hooker but Pac is a long Armed straight shooter & lightning fast. what do you think will be Chico's reaction When he gets hit by Pac's strt Left???

[kg0208]

I was wrong with my pick , I already admit it right?? But I'm not like you guys that don't give a chance to Rojas. Same with Gerry & Nonito.
How do you predict this fight??? Did you predict tha Rojas will school Arce before the KO punch????
Can you point me in the direction of my picks for Penalosa's fight and Nonito's fight? If you can't (since I never publicly made a prediction) then don't say "you guys".

You made an excuse after Arce won saying it was lucky otherwise you were right. He is a KO guy...he was no luckier than Pacman was when he stopped Sasakul. I also don't care when you make wrong predictions, just when you talk about someone else making wrong predictions as though it will automatically make them wrong in their next one, but of course that doesn't apply to you when YOU are wrong. When I make wrong predictions, I say good job to the other guy and honor my bet (Margarito-Williams). No excuses.

[kg0208]

Chico is a short armed Hooker but Pac is a long Armed straight shooter & lightning fast. what do you think will be Chico's reaction When he gets hit by Pac's strt Left???

Pacman isn't anywhere near lightning fast. He is actually slower at 130 than he was at 126. But you won't think that no matter what I say.

Pacman has long arms for HIS SIZE. He is signifigantly shorter than Corrales, 5in is ALOT. Corrales has at least a 3in reach advantage. What do you think Pacman's reaction will be when he gets hit by Corrales when he was wobbled by Morales, who is no where near the puncher than Corrales was?

[Oscar de la Roa]

I have always said barrera has the better chance to beat pbf

[PacDbest]

Pacman isn't anywhere near lightning fast. He is actually slower at 130 than he was at 126. But you won't think that no matter what I say.

Pacman has long arms for HIS SIZE. He is signifigantly shorter than Corrales, 5in is ALOT. Corrales has at least a 3in reach advantage. What do you think Pacman's reaction will be when he gets hit by Corrales when he was wobbled by Morales, who is no where near the puncher than Corrales was?

Ask Morales if Pac's not Lightning quick??? How much Slower was Pac at 130??? Is it noticeable??? Coz I didn't notice any slowness.

Pac's Arms from armpit to end of the fist at 25". Corrales is about 22-23". Reach are different, it's measured from finger tips to fingertips. You don't punch with your fingertips right????

Pac's Chin was already tested by the best Hitters at 126 & 130 & it holds up. Even the Ring & most writers respect that Chin.

Chico was Dropped by feather fisted PBF & Casa who is not known to be the Power puncher at 130.

[kg0208]

Ask Morales if Pac's not Lightning quick??? How much Slower was Pac at 130??? Is it noticeable??? Coz I didn't notice any slowness.

Pac's Arms from armpit to end of the fist at 25". Corrales is about 22-23". Reach are different, it's measured from finger tips to fingertips. You don't punch with your fingertips right????

Pac's Chin was already tested by the best Hitters at 126 & 130 & it holds up. Even the Ring & most writers respect that Chin.

Chico was Dropped by feather fisted PBF & Casa who is not known to be the Power puncher at 130.
Yes, and Corrales is 5in taller. That equates into reach because Pacman is going to be punching up and Corrales will be punching down.

Yes, Pacman was noticably slower. I wouldn't expect you to notice. And Morales was old buddy. Beating a fighter doesn't mean you were as fast as you used to be. Ruiz certainly thinks Jones was very fast at HW...and he was, but not as fast as he was at 168 or 175. Pacman isn't as fast as PBF at 130...period. Your post proves nothing when it comes to whether Pacman is lightning fast. He is fast, but he USED to be faster.

LMAO, PBF was feather fisted at 130? And so was Casa? Go watch boxing PacD. I beg you to watch boxing before you post. Something not involving Pacman. Go back and look at how many fighters PBF stopped at 130 and get back to me. There are certainly different levels of power between elite level and feather fisted. PBFs stopped something like 19 of the 26 fighters he fought before he moved up to LW permanently. That, my Pac loving friend, is not feather fisted.