A tidbit on SRL...

[Nemesis]

I was just reading my local newspaper, which had a feature on Paul Smith, who is in the 3rd Contender series and he mentioned that when he went to Leonard's for a BBQ, Leonard mentioned that he got Knocked out in sparring a couple of weeks before his fight with Hagler, thus the reason why he fought on the outside.

Does anyone know anything about this, or who the opponent was?

[My dinner with Conteh]

I was just reading my local newspaper, which had a feature on Paul Smith, who is in the 3rd Contender series and he mentioned that when he went to Leonard's for a BBQ, Leonard mentioned that he got Knocked out in sparring a couple of weeks before his fight with Hagler, thus the reason why he fought on the outside.

Does anyone know anything about this, or who the opponent was?


Rooster's your man here. :good

[JohnThomas1]

Rooster's your man here. :good

If he wasn't there, his friends Pepping, Hank or Street were.

:lol:

Hey, he was sparring southpaws, what's the odds Rooter claims a TKO win for the mercurial Frank "Le Animarl" Fletcher!

[redrooster]

I was just reading my local newspaper, which had a feature on Paul Smith, who is in the 3rd Contender series and he mentioned that when he went to Leonard's for a BBQ, Leonard mentioned that he got Knocked out in sparring a couple of weeks before his fight with Hagler, thus the reason why he fought on the outside.

Does anyone know anything about this, or who the opponent was?

Some guy on another forum (he is a real fanatic of ray leonard) said leonard was knocked out in the sparring session which validates my claim that hagler was very far gone if he couldn't do the same.

Don't believe John Thomas. I was not there to see it happen-I've never seen Leonard fight in preson. I watched hagler in sparring that was also a couple weeks before the Leonard fight and felt Hagler shouldn't be fighting anymore but did improve somewhat vs. leonard over what i saw him doing in sparring. he looked terrible.

[JohnThomas1]

Some guy on another forum (he is a real fanatic of ray leonard) said leonard was knocked out in the sparring session which validates my claim that hagler was very far gone if he couldn't do the same.

Don't believe John Thomas. I was not there to see it happen-I've never seen Leonard fight in preson. I watched hagler in sparring that was also a couple weeks before the Leonard fight and felt Hagler shouldn't be fighting anymore but did improve somewhat vs. leonard over what i saw him doing in sparring. he looked terrible.
Listen up and listen good :lol:

You say Hagler struggling in sparring let you know Hagler wasn't in shape to fight Leonard yet Leonard supposedly getting ko'ed in sparring doesn't get him the same concessions

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

[SgrRyLeonard]

I heard he ALMOST got KO'd in sparring, nearly out on his feet, but was somehow able to hide the fact that he was badly hurt. I don't know who the guy was that he was sparring with though.

[redrooster]

Listen up and listen good :lol:

You say Hagler struggling in sparring let you know Hagler wasn't in shape to fight Leonard yet Leonard supposedly getting ko'ed in sparring doesn't get him the same concessions

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

It's based on a lack of reflexes that Hagler floundered in sparring.

Leonard was knocked out in his sparring session because he didn't have a chin. That's what I've always said isn't it?

[redrooster]

I heard he ALMOST got KO'd in sparring, nearly out on his feet, but was somehow able to hide the fact that he was badly hurt. I don't know who the guy was that he was sparring with though.

Whew!

I stand corrected then. I was just going by what someone else said.

But the question arises, how do you almost get knocked out and what saved him from being ko'd?

[JohnThomas1]

Whew!

I stand corrected then. I was just going by what someone else said.

But the question arises, how do you almost get knocked out and what saved him from being ko'd?

Ask Ali about Shavers

;)

[JohnThomas1]

It's based on a lack of reflexes that Hagler floundered in sparring.

Leonard was knocked out in his sparring session because he didn't have a chin. That's what I've always said isn't it?

Well how did Leonard survive the biggest bombs in history at 147? How did he survive and thrive Haglers formidable power at 160? Why did KO and all the others rate his chin brilliantly?

P.S. Mom would kill me if she knew i was dishing out this whupping on some poor defenseless moron.

[redrooster]

Well how did Leonard survive the biggest bombs in history at 147? How did he survive and thrive Haglers formidable power at 160? Why did KO and all the others rate his chin brilliantly?

P.S. Mom would kill me if she knew i was dishing out this whupping on some poor defenseless moron.

To answer your first question, Hearns was was too frail at 145 to knock out anyone except tomato cans.

Second, Hagler was no longer formidable.

And KO has always overrated Leonard since the day he won the title. I think it was a mistake putting him in the same class as Robinson just for beating Benitez.

[ChrisPontius]

It's based on a lack of reflexes that Hagler floundered in sparring.

Leonard was knocked out in his sparring session because he didn't have a chin. That's what I've always said isn't it?

You must not think much of Hearns' power at 147 then, if he couldn't even floor Leonard the first time and Hagler couldn't even hurt a retired guy who was 13 pounds lighter than him with no chin!

[redrooster]

You must not think much of Hearns' power at 147 then, if he couldn't even floor Leonard the first time and Hagler couldn't even hurt a retired guy who was 13 pounds lighter than him with no chin!

because hagler was shot. haven't i always said that?

[bill poster]

Hagler was not fighting at his normal weight. That plus age

[achillesthegreat]

Leonard was working the talk shows MONTHS before he fought Hagler and said he would box him, out think him, be more skilled, scientific etc

I'm certain Leonard didn't conjure up the idea to box two weeks before facing Hagler.

Leonard didn't look like he was boxing when he would use Haglers head as a pinball - see round 9, 12 etc

[Nemesis]

Leonard was working the talk shows MONTHS before he fought Hagler and said he would box him, out think him, be more skilled, scientific etc

I'm certain Leonard didn't conjure up the idea to box two weeks before facing Hagler.

Leonard didn't look like he was boxing when he would use Haglers head as a pinball - see round 9, 12 etc

It came from the horses mouth

[achillesthegreat]

It came from the horses mouth
It doesn't matter.

It came from the horses mouth in my point too.

I have the talk shows on tape.

SRL visit ALL the MAJOR talk shows and said he was going to box Hagler blah blah blah.

My one came from the horses mouth, yours is now second hand information via Paul Smith.

It is Chinese whispers. Leonard could have said he got knocked down but at a loud BBQ, Smith thought he heard knocked out. Plus, what does he mean by knocked out? I wouldn't be suprised if SRL got knocked down hard and they stopped the sparring session. It happens all the time, its not a real fight, no need to take unnecessary punishment.

When it comes to SRL boxing Haglelr, it is irrefutable that Leonard decided on this gameplan MONTHS before facing Hagler.

[Robbi]

Leonard couldn't handle southpaws during training camp for his fight with Hagler. Gil Clancy visited Leonard and seen him sparring with southpaws, and he had a very hard time being effective against them.

Hagler was at his most effective when he turned southpaw against Leonard.

[Street Lethal]

If you guys avoided posting in pairs it might be less apparent that you are the same persons. If he wasn't there, his friends Pepping, Hank or Street were.

:lol:

Hey, he was sparring southpaws, what's the odds Rooter claims a TKO win for the mercurial Frank "Le Animarl" Fletcher!

[redrooster]

one thing I know for sure is what I saw in Marvin during his sparring session and he wasn't able to land anything on his three sparring partners.

that's why I wasn't surprised at all over his poor showing with leonard and why I don't rank leonard as the top fighter of the decade.

Ray absolutely needed Hagler to have a huge disadvantage and is the reason why he tried getting Marvin to take off a few pounds down to 154. and when he didn't cooperate, retired instead of taking the fight even though that's when most people consider him at his peak.

By 1987 Marvin slowed down enuff to where Ray could finally compete with him and you can even hear him quoted by Tim Ryan on the 6th round of the fight as saying he lost a lot of speed and that he was counting on thw slowness of Hagler.

Leonard fans hate hearing that-that's why they never bring it up.

[Street Lethal]

Well how did Leonard survive the biggest bombs in history at 147? How did he survive and thrive Haglers formidable power at 160? Why did KO and all the others rate his chin brilliantly?

P.S. Mom would kill me if she knew i was dishing out this whupping on some poor defenseless moron.
Neither you nor your momma have anything to worry about, 'cause you sure aren't whupping up on anybody here.

[Street Lethal]

If getting knocked out in sparring convinced him to run from Hagler then that was the best possible thing that could have happened to him. By surviving to the final bell, he was almost guaranteed the decision.

[JohnThomas1]

Neither you nor your momma have anything to worry about, 'cause you sure aren't whupping up on anybody here.

Spoken like a true disciple, or should i say alter ego

:lol:

[Robbi]

one thing I know for sure is what I saw in Marvin during his sparring session and he wasn't able to land anything on his three sparring partners.

that's why I wasn't surprised at all over his poor showing with leonard and why I don't rank leonard as the top fighter of the decade.

Ray absolutely needed Hagler to have a huge disadvantage and is the reason why he tried getting Marvin to take off a few pounds down to 154. and when he didn't cooperate, retired instead of taking the fight even though that's when most people consider him at his peak.

By 1987 Marvin slowed down enuff to where Ray could finally compete with him and you can even hear him quoted by Tim Ryan on the 6th round of the fight as saying he lost a lot of speed and that he was counting on thw slowness of Hagler.

Leonard fans hate hearing that-that's why they never bring it up.

I watched Leonard v Finch a few nights ago. Leonard said after the fight he would not be willing to go all the way up to full middleweight, and Hagler himself said getting down to 154lbs would mean he'd weaken himself. Leonard did say he'd meet Hagler at a catchweight, around 156lbs, and he further stated it would be fine since Hagler usually weighs in a few pounds under the middleweight limit. I'm sure Leonard mentioned Hagler coming in at 157 or 158lbs for one of his previous middleweight defenses.

The above maybe looks like I'm defending Leonard. But Im not taking any sides, I'm just accurately quoting what Leonard said after the Finch fight.

[redrooster]

I watched Leonard v Finch a few nights ago. Leonard said after the fight he would not be willing to go all the way up to full middleweight, and Hagler himself said getting down to 154lbs would mean he'd weaken himself. Leonard did say he'd meet Hagler at a catchweight, around 156lbs, and he further stated it would be fine since Hagler usually weighs in a few pounds under the middleweight limit. I'm sure Leonard mentioned Hagler coming in at 157 or 158lbs for one of his previous middleweight defenses.

The above maybe looks like I'm defending Leonard. But Im not taking any sides, I'm just accurately quoting what Leonard said after the Finch fight.

the weight he mentioned was 154, not 156. I read it Ring magazine covering the leonard interview following leonard-heanrs 1 and Hagler-hamsho.

If you watch hagler-hamsho you can hear it yourself. at first there was no mention about weights and I assumed leonard was for real when he said he wanted Hagler "I want to give him an opportunity"-he kept saying it throughout the fight.

but then the truth came out when Merchant went up to interview Marvin afterwards and said Ray would only fight at 154 which is the lower limit.

the only conclusion you can make is leonard never would face Hagler at full strength in the tradition of Griffith, Walker, Robinson. that's why you never see me mention his name with theirs.

[Robbi]

the weight he mentioned was 154, not 156.

Not trying to be funny mate. But your actually calling me a liar, as I watched the Finch fight at the start of the week, and I'm quoting you on what Leonard said about fighting Hagler. This aint no Leonard fan here, and I'm not twisting his quotes in anyway to make his case look better.

He did say he could not get up to middleweight at that point in his career as he'd be sacrificing speed with the extra added weight. He stated that he'd previously fought at 154lbs once, but he was really only a natural welterweight. He did take into consideration that Hagler coming down to 154lbs would weaken him, then he said a fight between Hagler and himself would need to take place between 154lbs and 160lbs, and he said around 156lbs.

Im not firing back and calling you a liar, as Leonard may well have said that in the Ring magazine, but trust me he did say the above after the Finch.

[Street Lethal]

By 1987 Marvin slowed down enuff to where Ray could finally compete with him and you can even hear him quoted by Tim Ryan on the 6th round of the fight as saying he lost a lot of speed and that he was counting on thw slowness of Hagler.

Leonard fans hate hearing that-that's why they never bring it up.
Honestly, bro, I don't think Leonard fans care. As long as Hagler's name is on Leonard's record with a W after it, that's good enough for them. What's good enough for Ray is good enough for his devotees.I also think that some on here get special joy out of his win over Hagler because Hagler so completely outclassed the top two British middleweight of the era. You can see by the way they reacted the night Hagler won the title that a number of boxing fans over there are driven by more than an appreciation of boxing excellence. Some - not all, but some - suffer from an inferiority complex because they have, with a few notable exceptions, always trailed the United States in the sport. They might wish to bring up Dave Boy here - "didn't Leonard beat him?" - but Green had already been humiliated by Palomino, so he was a two-time loser unworthy of indignation.

[Street Lethal]

the weight he mentioned was 154, not 156. I read it Ring magazine covering the leonard interview following leonard-heanrs 1 and Hagler-hamsho.

If you watch hagler-hamsho you can hear it yourself. at first there was no mention about weights and I assumed leonard was for real when he said he wanted Hagler "I want to give him an opportunity"-he kept saying it throughout the fight.

but then the truth came out when Merchant went up to interview Marvin afterwards and said Ray would only fight at 154 which is the lower limit.

the only conclusion you can make is leonard never would face Hagler at full strength in the tradition of Griffith, Walker, Robinson. that's why you never see me mention his name with theirs.
It really bugged me the way Leonard kept making it all about him. He was supposed to be a commentator. I wished somebody had told him to shut up and do his job.

[redrooster]

Not trying to be funny mate. But your actually calling me a liar, as I watched the Finch fight at the start of the week, and I'm quoting you on what Leonard said about fighting Hagler. This aint no Leonard fan here, and I'm not twisting his quotes in anyway to make his case look better.

He did say he could not get up to middleweight at that point in his career as he'd be sacrificing speed with the extra added weight. He stated that he'd previously fought at 154lbs once, but he was really only a natural welterweight. He did take into consideration that Hagler coming down to 154lbs would weaken him, then he said a fight between Hagler and himself would need to take place between 154lbs and 160lbs, and he said around 156lbs.

Im not firing back and calling you a liar, as Leonard may well have said that in the Ring magazine, but trust me he did say the above after the Finch.

I'll take your word for it then. I might be mistaken so i'll check the tape again.

[Robbi]

I'll take your word for it then. I might be mistaken so i'll check the tape again.

Redrooster. Not sure your version will be the same as mines. I have the British version, ITV. And Reg Guttridge never interviewed Leonard after the Finch fight in the ring, it was after the bout when Leonard was dressed and sitting down. In a hotel probably.

What I'll do tommorow is listen to the interview again, and write down exactly what Leonard said. And ITV did interviews with fighters 20 years ago after the fight away from the ring. Gutteridge interviewed Holmes in the locker room after his fight with Ali, and Hagler sat next to Sibson outside in the sun while Gutteridge interviewed them both after Hagler's second win over Obelmeijas.

[redrooster]

Redrooster. Not sure your version will be the same as mines. I have the British version, ITV. And Reg Guttridge never interviewed Leonard after the Finch fight in the ring, it was after the bout when Leonard was dressed and sitting down. In a hotel probably.

What I'll do tommorow is listen to the interview again, and write down exactly what Leonard said. And ITV did interviews with fighters 20 years ago after the fight away from the ring. Gutteridge interviewed Holmes in the locker room after his fight with Ali, and Hagler sat next to Sibson outside in the sun while Gutteridge interviewed them both after Hagler's second win over Obelmeijas.

don't bother. i just went thru the tape and never heard an actual weight mentioned-just a suggestion that Hagler might come down in weight.

I'm surprised that no one jumped on this before. all this time I was saying 154 and no one corrected me which would have been very embarrassing to me.

BTW, the interview you have sounds like something I should see. you said Reggie interviewed Hagler and sibson after the obel fight and Holmes after his fight with Ali?

[Robbi]

don't bother. i just went thru the tape and never heard an actual weight mentioned-just a suggestion that Hagler might come down in weight.

I'm surprised that no one jumped on this before. all this time I was saying 154 and no one corrected me which would have been very embarrassing to me.

BTW, the interview you have sounds like something I should see. you said Reggie interviewed Hagler and sibson after the obel fight and Holmes after his fight with Ali?


Yeah, Gutteridge interviewed both Hagler and Sibson together after his win over Obelmejias. Its quite a good interview, and it comes on right after the Obelmejias fight ended, delyaed coverage obviously. Both are sitting in the sun next to each other, and talking about their scheduled fight, which was Hagler's next defense.

The Holmes interview was in the locker room after the Ali fight. He said he held back on Ali and never wanted to hurt him.

I'll quote Leonard accurately tommorow when he sat down with Gutteridge after the Finch fight. If im mistaken and wrong, I'll still post it. Trust me.

[Robbi]

Rooster. I do send my apoligies. Ive just re-watched the interview, and your correct. Leonard said the Hagler fight would never happen as they could not agree with the weight. He told Gutteridge he weighs-in at 146lbs, Im pressuming that was his weight for the Finch fight, then he went onto say he would meet Hagler at 154lbs. Leonard then said Hagler weighs-in at 157lbs, so coming down a further couple of pounds shouldn't be a problem. To correct Leonard, its three rounds. He also said he felt it would be comparable and fair to him and Hagler regarding speed and power if they met halfway between welterweight and middleweight.

I was getting mixed up, as i thought Leonard said between 154lbs and 160lbs, I was probably saying 156lbs and got confused with the 146lbs he mentioned in the interview which was his weight for the Finch fight.

[JohnThomas1]

the only conclusion you can make is leonard never would face Hagler at full strength in the tradition of Griffith, Walker, Robinson. that's why you never see me mention his name with theirs.

Last time i looked Leonard took his belt in a 160 pound title fight.

[ChrisPontius]

I also think that some on here get special joy out of his win over Hagler because Hagler so completely outclassed the top two British middleweight of the era. You can see by the way they reacted the night Hagler won the title that a number of boxing fans over there are driven by more than an appreciation of boxing excellence. Some - not all, but some - suffer from an inferiority complex because they have, with a few notable exceptions, always trailed the United States in the sport.

Nah, i think the difference is that Brits always stand behind their fighter and support him when he fights overseas, whereas a US fighter typically has 2 or 3* fans in foreign fights, watch McClellan vs Benn or Douglas vs Tyson, Klitschko vs Byrd, etc.


*If we count their trainer.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Honestly, bro, I don't think Leonard fans care. As long as Hagler's name is on Leonard's record with a W after it, that's good enough for them. What's good enough for Ray is good enough for his devotees.I also think that some on here get special joy out of his win over Hagler because Hagler so completely outclassed the top two British middleweight of the era. You can see by the way they reacted the night Hagler won the title that a number of boxing fans over there are driven by more than an appreciation of boxing excellence. Some - not all, but some - suffer from an inferiority complex because they have, with a few notable exceptions, always trailed the United States in the sport. They might wish to bring up Dave Boy here - "didn't Leonard beat him?" - but Green had already been humiliated by Palomino, so he was a two-time loser unworthy of indignation.


Believe me squire, there's not many fighters more popular than Hagler in the over 30s bracket in the UK. In fact, probably none outside heavyweight.

[redrooster]

Yeah, Gutteridge interviewed both Hagler and Sibson together after his win over Obelmejias. Its quite a good interview, and it comes on right after the Obelmejias fight ended, delyaed coverage obviously. Both are sitting in the sun next to each other, and talking about their scheduled fight, which was Hagler's next defense.

The Holmes interview was in the locker room after the Ali fight. He said he held back on Ali and never wanted to hurt him.

I'll quote Leonard accurately tommorow when he sat down with Gutteridge after the Finch fight. If im mistaken and wrong, I'll still post it. Trust me.

thats great. thanks

[Robbi]

thats great. thanks

You have missed my reply below the one you quoted.