Riddick Bowe vs Vitali Klitschko

[rekcutnevets]

I am really having trouble of thinking of a 90's heavyweight that I could say, with little doubt, would be a safe pick to defeat Vitali Klitschko head to head.
Other than Lewis, and Riddick Bowe, that is.

Holyfield did not look good as an aggressor. Though Vitali is larger, I still think he would make Holyfield come to him.

Vitali would be a TALL order for Mike Tyson, and I think a fight featuring the two would go the distance. I can't see a 90's Tyson getting the decision.

I think Andrew Golota would stand a real chance stylistically. I think Golota had the better jab, but he is too much of a head case to pick over a top notch opponent. I thought people were crazy to pick Michael Grant to beat Golota, and look what happened.

Riddick Bowe had trouble against opponents that could out jab him. Riddick Bowe only has one official loss, but he looked like the losing fighter on three occasions. On those occasions, he was in the ring with fighters that were capable of out jabbing him at times. Bowe was out of shape when he first faced Golota, but I don't think he was shot in the rematch. I believe Golota made him look so bad because he could out jab Bowe. Golota's jab was straighter and snappier, and that wasn't just because Bowe was all of 29 years old.

Vitali's jab looks to be more pesky than great to me, and I think Bowe may be able to win in this department. Bowe was a couple inches shorter than Vitali, but he has an inch in reach. Bowe also had a high punch output for a big man, and he throws far fewer arm punches than Vitali.

I think this could be a great fight. What do you think?

[Russell]

Oh yes, I'd love to see Vitali lean back against Tyson, what with his explosiveness, sharpness and speed. :lol:

[rekcutnevets]

Posted by Russell
Oh yes, I'd love to see Vitali lean back against Tyson, what with his explosiveness, sharpness and speed.
Tyson did not pursue with the multi-punch combinations that he threw in the 80's. With Tyson's speed, he is still a threat to ko Vitali in the 90's. I just don't think that a 25-30 punch per round Tyson has the same chance as a 40+ punch version.

[MRBILL]

V.K. is an all-time badass motherfucker with conditioning and skill................ He is head and shoulders (Literally) over dudes like "Tyson & Bowe." Both Tyson and Bowe finished up in an ugly manner........ But while Tyson is a sure bet to make the H.O.F. next year, I cannot say the same about Bowe.....

Right now I am anxious to see "Klit vs. Johnson" in December on HBO... GO KLIT!!

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

Tyson only threw lotsa' punches when he wasn't threatened or in NO fear of his opponent......... Christ, prime or not, Tyson was slowing down well BEFORE a mere age of 30.... How old was Tyson when he fought Ruddock in 1991? Tyson was just SHY of age 25.......... I clearly saw that a ripped like Tyson at 216 pounds for his rematch with Ruddock was clearly slowing and slipping by 1991....... Tyson was indeed overrated....

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

I never felt Bowe was overrated because I felt Bowe still had things to prove by the time he was washing up in 1996 at age 29......... Bowe never came close to living up to his full potential.......

MR.BILL

[Bummy Davis]

Vitali not lacking what Golota was.....Bowe had skill but he was an easy target...Vitali late 8-12th

[mr. magoo]

Tyson did not pursue with the multi-punch combinations that he threw in the 80's. With Tyson's speed, he is still a threat to ko Vitali in the 90's. I just don't think that a 25-30 punch per round Tyson has the same chance as a 40+ punch version.


Agreed. A 1987 Tyson beats Vitali in similar fashion to the way he beat Tucker. Maybe 9 rounds to 3 in a 12 round decision. A 1991 Tyson vs Klitschko is a toss up. Tyson from 1995 onward is a good candidate to lose to Vitali.

[MRBILL]

Hmmm... Tony "The Fucker" Tucker is not even a pimple on V.K.'s ass in terms of toughness, durability & skills....... Tucker was a jabber who'd only throw the right with conviction against lesser opponents............. Tucker always FAILED in his fights against "A" grade fighters....... I was never sold on Tucker..........

I cannot see V.K. being as tentative and timid against the much smaller Mike Tyson in a ring like Tucker of '87 was...... I see Tyson eating lotsa' leather from long range against Vitali Klit............. V.K. just is too big and strong for Tyson......... Tyson gets battered for a late round TKO loss...........

MR.BILL

[dabox]

i like vitali but

bowe beats him and stops

tyson gets under him and distroys him.....

[mr. magoo]

Hmmm... Tony "The Fucker" Tucker is not even a pimple on V.K.'s ass in terms of toughness, durability & skills......
MR.BILL

Jesus, why don't you tell us how you really feel Bill...:lol:

[sues2nd]

i like vitali but

bowe beats him and stops

tyson gets under him and distroys him.....

Was gonna post the same thing. People forget all too often just how amazing a fighter that a prime Bowe was for such a short, short time period. Which is the reason they forget in the first place.

[MRBILL]

Jesus, why don't you tell us how you really feel Bill...:lol:

It's all true, though......... Back in the 80s, I recall how KO and World Boxing mags were hailing Tony Tucker as a hot prospect with size, talent and finess......... And, to a large degree, he lived up to a lot of the hype.... BUT! That was only against the "D" and "C" competition he was being pitted against........

Tony Tucker WAS LOSING to Buster Douglas before Douglas ran outta gas and haired out in 1987......... Lucky win.......

Tucker looked good in round 1 against Tyson, but then jabbed, held and waltzed around the ring for 12 rds........ YAWN!!

Tucker stunk with Ollie McCall for a lackluster draw or something on Showtime in 1992..... Boring........

Tucker came to fight Lenny Lewis on PPV in 1993, but once against faded late and lost a decision.....

Tucker totally stunk against Bruce Seldon on PPV in 1995 and whined like a bee-yatch afterward...... I never saw Tucker again......

MR.BILL:deal

[mr. magoo]

Riddick Bowe was indeed a very good fighter who was never stopped and was truly only beaten once by a fighter whom he defeated twice. The problem I have with giving him an automatic "W" against a man like Vitali Klitschko, was that as many good attributes that Bowe had as a fighter, he also had a fair number of weaknesses that I think could have been exposed by such a man.

Riddick's tendency to get tagged repeatedly by a strait left jab is often over stated by people here, but it is a valid observation to make. Tony Tubbs found a home for that jab, and fought Bowe to a virtual standstill. Evander Holyfield fired Lou Duva after his first defeat to Bowe, hired Steward for the rematch, and used the jab to box his way to a victory. And finally, Andrew Golata was able to beat him from pillar to post, and at one point left me wondering if Bowe was even going to leave that ring alive.

Unfortunately, Riddick Bowe's durable chin and desire to brawl in close, had the tendency to over compensate for his poor defense and pattern for getting hit with certain kinds of punches. Against Vitali Klitschko, I could see this as being problematic for a variety of reasons. First, Klitschko may have very conceivably been the largest foe Bowe ever faced, along with being one of the hardest hitting. For a man who was well accustomed to facing smaller foes, as well as a number who were past prime, this would be a different paradigm. On top of that, Klit had every bit as good of an effective strait jab as Golata and Tubbs, only with more power to back it. In addition, despite what anyone says of Vitali's durability issues, his chin was still well tested, and unless he succumbs to the unlikely event of a freak torn rotator cuff twice in one career, or a huge gash over his eye, his ability to take Bowe's best has my full confidence. Lastly, these two men had a very different approach to fight preparation when contrasted to one another. One of them was not exactly a glutant for hard training and dietary awareness, while the other basically treated his body like a temple even well into middle age. In the sport of boxing, such differences can always have a huge impact.....

I say this with no real conviction, but I think I'll favor Vitali Klitschko by late stoppage or a decision, in a war that would could potentially ruin both fighters.

[Genesis]

The Bowe of 1992 has a great chance.

[DamonD]

I don't think any version of Bowe has a great chance, I think Vitali has the mix of style and physical gifts that makes him a bit of a bugger for Bowe. Styles make fights is an old cliche but it's a cliche for good reason.

Magoo nails it pretty well.
I think a prime Bowe could test Vitali more than anyone else he's ever fought, so that could be interesting, maybe some doubt there. But there's no doubt in my mind that Vitali can heavily challenge Bowe in turn.

It would definitely be a cool fight to watch. Bowe always came forward for the knockout, and Vitali isn't the shrinking violet type either when he has to stand his ground. Both guys are also capable of some pretty impressive workrate for such big guys.

[Holmes' Jab]

Bowe is the better fighter, at his best he'd stop Vitali.

[lefthook31]

Bowe (at his best), would have been able to institute the same gameplan that Lennox Lewis did somewhat sloppily, to perfection. That was his style. Vitali would have a very difficult time keeping Bowe off of his chest. Bowe would beat Klitschko like Lewis did, only look better doing it.

[mr. magoo]

Tucker totally stunk against Bruce Seldon on PPV in 1995 and whined like a bee-yatch afterward...... I never saw Tucker again......

MR.BILL:deal


I vageuly remember that fight to. I also recall Larry Merchant commenting on how ridiculous it was that Tucker was the WBA's #1 contender, while Seldon was #2. The whole thing was basically bullshit. My theory was that guys like Seldon, Tucker, Bruno, etc. Were all steared into top slots, presumably to be easy pickings for a returning Tyson. But that's just a theory.

Anyway, if I remember, wasn't tucker cheek bone shattered in that fight or something?

[Hatesrats]

Bowe from the first Evander fight, defeats any version of either Vitali/Wladamir, IMO.

[Unforgiven]

I'm not sold on Vitali Klitschko.
His opponents have been mostly shit, and he was beaten by a fading Lewis in a very unskilled brawl.
Bowe had skills, and did well in unskilled brawls too. I mean, he showed a ton of heart against Holyfield and Golota in 1995 and '96, and that wasn't him at his best.
I dont think Vitali punches harder than Holyfield or Golota, he seems to wear guys down.
When Bowe was boxing well he looked better than Vitali, and Vitali hasn't beat anyone really good ....... but Bowe struggled with a fading Tyrell Biggs a bit, and Tony Tubbs ...... so I dont know.

[lefthook31]

I'm not sold on Vitali Klitschko.
His opponents have been mostly shit, and he was beaten by a fading Lewis in a very unskilled brawl.
Bowe had skills, and did well in unskilled brawls too. I mean, he showed a ton of heart against Holyfield and Golota in 1995 and '96, and that wasn't him at his best.
I dont think Vitali punches harder than Holyfield or Golota, he seems to wear guys down.
When Bowe was boxing well he looked better than Vitali, and Vitali hasn't beat anyone really good ....... but Bowe struggled with a fading Tyrell Biggs a bit, and Tony Tubbs ...... so I dont know.
Poor Riddick Bowe. Always getting beat on. To me fairly respectable performances for a young fighter some 8 or 9 fights away from his eventual title shot. Especially Tony Tubbs, who was still world class at that time, and came to fight in respectable shape. Tubbs one of the more underated fighters. Biggs ehh..

[MRBILL]

Magoo,

Yes, Tucker sustained some form of injury to his eye / cheek and the fight was halted in the mid-rds..... Seldon was awarded the WBA title and a TKO win over a 36 year old Tucker... Christ, Tucker cried a river of tears afterward to anyone who cared to listen..... My ears fell deaf after a minute or so...

Four months later on the undercard of "Tyson-McNeely," Seldon defended his title against Joe Hipp..... That fight kinda' stole the show from Tyson-McNeely for obvious reasons.......

Lamar Murphy was supposedly butt-reamed on the undercard by the judges against Miguel Angel Gonzalez.....

MR.BILL

[mr. magoo]

Magoo,

Yes, Tucker sustained some form of injury to his eye / cheek and the fight was halted in the mid-rds..... Seldon was awarded the WBA title and a TKO win over a 36 year old Tucker... Christ, Tucker cried a river of tears afterward to anyone who cared to listen..... My ears fell deaf after a minute or so...

Four months later on the undercard of "Tyson-McNeely," Seldon defended his title against Joe Hipp..... That fight kinda' stole the show from Tyson-McNeely for obvious reasons.......

Lamar Murphy was supposedly butt-reamed on the undercard by the judges against Miguel Angel Gonzalez.....

MR.BILL

That whole WBA elimination tournament was a butt reaming if you ask me. I think Don King did everything he could to ensure that Tyson would not have to go through Riddick Bowe or Lennox Lewis to get his hands on a strap, therefore he jerry rigged the scene so that guys like Seldon, Tucker and Bruno would be easier candidates. When the smoke cleared, Frank Bruno was holding the WBC and Bruce Seldon had the WBA - two opponents, one of whom Tyson had already creamed years earlier, while the other had been starched in one round by Bowe, beaten by Tubbs and McCall, then basically fell to the canvas after faking being tagged.This whole thing about Tyson regaining two thirds of the title post -prison needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It sure as hell can't be compared in the same context of Ali regaining the title from Foreman or Holyfield regaining it from Bowe.

[MRBILL]

"Bruno & Seldon" froze like a pair of Mammoths in an ice glacier upon entering the ring to face a rusty and faded Tyson in 1996....... Tyson had me fooled after Seldon took a nose-dive in round 1..... I too, thought Tyson was back as a killer in 1996.... But that changed when I saw how a faded 34 year old Holyfield took Tyson apart pretty systematically to cap off '96....... Tyson looked fit in 1996 / '97, but his skills were gone......

MR.BILL

[mr. magoo]

"Bruno & Seldon" froze like a pair of Mammoths in an ice glacier upon entering the ring to face a rusty and faded Tyson in 1996....... Tyson had me fooled after Seldon took a nose-dive in round 1..... I too, thought Tyson was back as a killer in 1996.... But that changed when I saw how a faded 34 year old Holyfield took Tyson apart pretty systematically to cap off '96....... Tyson looked fit in 1996 / '97, but his skills were gone......

MR.BILL


Agreed,

Tyson's post-prison comeback, along with his claim to still being a champion, was nothing more than smoke and mirrors in my opinion.. I honestly would have picked Lewis, Bowe and Holyfield to beat him anytime from 1995 onward.

[MRBILL]

By 1999 all Tyson had left was his conditioning and punch....... I liked Tyson in at 220 solid pounds for Frans Botha, but Botha had Tyson totally flustered and schooled before he got caught with a huge right hand haymaker in round 5.... That fight showed me just how far Tyson had slipped as a fighter at a still youthful age 32.....

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

I thought Mike Tyson was doing well with Tommy Brooks in his corner, but Tyson's ego surfaced and Brooks was let go....... Tyson was horrid in his fights against "Lewis, Williams & McBride." I'll pass on mentioning Clifford Etienne cuz the "Black Rhino" came to collect a payday not to fight in 2003.....

MR.BILL

[lefthook31]

I thought Mike Tyson was doing well with Tommy Brooks in his corner, but Tyson's ego surfaced and Brooks was let go....... Tyson was horrid in his fights against "Lewis, Williams & McBride." I'll pass on mentioning Clifford Etienne cuz the "Black Rhino" came to collect a payday not to fight in 2003.....

MR.BILL
He had a shot with Brooks. He was improving, fight by fight. Tyson had a good run up until the Golota fight, and then he basically had to start over with Nielson. Who knows, Nielson probably was paid to throw in the towel, because Tyson was close to gassing out, and God forbid they risk the Lewis fight. Like I said before, I think Tyson was ready to face Lewis after Golota, he was somewhat consistently fighting.
Brooks was let go because he wouldnt cut his fee to train Tyson for the Lewis fight, but always maintained a call from Tyson would have easily persuaded him to do it. He believed Finkel was the reason behind it and had been short changed on previous fights.
I hold Brooks very highly as a trainer. He was THE guy who set the gameplan for Holyfield vs Tyson. Holy went back to Turner being the lead guy for the Lewis fights when Brooks left for Tyson.

[MRBILL]

Speaking of Don Turner, I kinda' like Ol' Turner...... He's generally calm and smooth in talking...... He knows what he's doing in there....... Hell, Holy and Larry Holmes worked with Turner on many occasions.... Turner MUST KNOW something..... Turner did the right thing by tossing in the towel on Holy against James Toney..... Later on, Holy seemed bitter about that, but Holy's ass was kicked by Toney in round 9.....

MR.BILL

[lefthook31]

Speaking of Don Turner, I kinda' like Ol' Turner...... He's generally calm and smooth in talking...... He knows what he's doing in there....... Hell, Holy and Larry Holmes worked with Turner on many occasions.... Turner MUST KNOW something..... Turner did the right thing by tossing in the towel on Holy against James Toney..... Later on, Holy seemed bitter about that, but Holy's ass was kicked by Toney in round 9.....

MR.BILL
I personally dont think much of Turner as a trainer.

[MRBILL]

I personally dont think much of Turner as a trainer.


That's how I've always felt about King's boy Richie Giachetti...... Giachetti screams and hollers too much and never truly coaches his kid in the fight..... Or Richie says the basic shit: "Pump The Jab And Come Over With The Right, Followed By The Hook. Do You Hear Me Goddammit?

MR.BILL:bbb

[lefthook31]

That's how I've always felt about King's boy Richie Giachetti...... Giachetti screams and hollers too much and never truly coaches his kid in the fight..... Or Richie says the basic shit: "Pump The Jab And Come Over With The Right, Followed By The Hook. Do You Hear Me Goddammit?

MR.BILL:bbb
You're right. I still thought Giachetti was better for Tyson than Jay bright, who was just clueless. People forget Giachetti was in the corner for the second Holy fight. He didnt have much sustained luck with Tyson.:yep

[JohnThomas1]

Tony Tucker WAS LOSING to Buster Douglas before Douglas ran outta gas and haired out in 1987......... Lucky win.......


Tucker was losing? WTF?

There's nothing lucky about outlasting and outgutting your opponent in a very close fight, certainly not on the planet i reside on.

[lefthook31]

Tucker was losing? WTF?

There's nothing lucky about outlasting and outgutting your opponent in a very close fight, certainly not on the planet i reside on.
I agree, it wasnt lucky, and somewhat typical of Douglas before his showing against Tyson. Holyfield brought out the same Douglas who didnt really prepare himself to well anyway. He had the skills, just not too much desire to be in rough and hard fights.

[Morrissey]

Did Bowe really duck LL in the mid-90s?

[mr. magoo]

Tucker was losing? WTF?

There's nothing lucky about outlasting and outgutting your opponent in a very close fight, certainly not on the planet i reside on.

Good point. If Mr. Bill's criticism coincided with how fights were judged, then I suppose Ali's win over Foreman doesn't count.

[mr. magoo]

Did Bowe really duck LL in the mid-90s?

I don't know if there was a challenge on the table during the MID 90's, but in late 1992, following his win over Holyfield, Bowe blatantly threw away his title and broke a binding contract, holding him to what could have been the biggest match of the decade.

[Bummy Davis]

Tucker was losing? WTF?

There's nothing lucky about outlasting and outgutting your opponent in a very close fight, certainly not on the planet i reside on.


Exactly, no luck at all Buster faded like he always did ( except in Tyson)....Tucker beat him convincingly

[lefthook31]

Exactly, no luck at all Buster faded like he always did ( except in Tyson)....Tucker beat him convincingly
Tucker was the best of all the 80's contenders. He had skill, a good chin and a decent punch, plus really he was the first big man with these type of skills. Drugs probably kept him under the radar a bit and diminished what he could have been. He basically went into the Tyson fight with a fractured hand and shattered it badly in the opening rounds.

[Muchmoore]

I like Vitali here. Bad matchup for Bowe.

I'm watching Vitali-Lewis as I type this, and what a fight it was. Lewis was in the worst shape of his career to be fair though, and Vitali came to fight. He landed some bombs early on against Lennox that pretty much disproved the notion that Lewis had a weak chin. Vitali was really hungry in that fight, he's not even close to the same guy now as he was back then.

I think Bowe is in trouble against skilled SHW's with good straight shots. His style/strengths/weaknesses make him very tough to beat if you're a brawler, but against guys like Lennox/Vitali/Golota the holes in his game get exploited. It's hard for me to pick guys under 220 to beat Bowe, the guy's the best superheavy of all time on the inside and one of the two best offensive superheavies of all time in my opinion, maybe the best. He also is one of the toughest SOB's to ever step in the ring. I give the edge to Vitali based primarily on styles, but it would be a brawl.

[Muchmoore]

Tucker was the best of all the 80's contenders. He had skill, a good chin and a decent punch, plus really he was the first big man with these type of skills. Drugs probably kept him under the radar a bit and diminished what he could have been. He basically went into the Tyson fight with a fractured hand and shattered it badly in the opening rounds.

By 80's contenders do you mean everyone not named Tyson or Holmes?

I'm fairly impressed by Tucker on film but there's a few 80's alpha champs who I'd not only rank above him in terms of resume (more than a few if it's resume) but head to head as well.
Witherspoon, Dokes, and Thomas were three really, really good fighters that I'd pick to beat any version of Tucker assuming they themselves were close to their A game.

I do agree though that Tucker had potential coming out of his ears. It's a pity, being 6'5 with his agility and chin he should of been able to accomplish so much more.

[Genesis]

Exactly Tucker was a good fighter, but overrated.

He beat nobody of note prior to fighting Tyson despite his unbeaten record going in.

He won the vacant IBF title against a nobody named Buster Douglas. He was never truly a world Champion when you consider the the title was made vacant by the unbeaten Michael Spinks in 1987, who was the man who beat the man, while Tucker beat a Buster Douglas who was a nobody.

[Mendoza]

I like Vitali here. Bowe was not much for defense, and tended to lose focus at times.

[lefthook31]

By 80's contenders do you mean everyone not named Tyson or Holmes?

I'm fairly impressed by Tucker on film but there's a few 80's alpha champs who I'd not only rank above him in terms of resume (more than a few if it's resume) but head to head as well.
Witherspoon, Dokes, and Thomas were three really, really good fighters that I'd pick to beat any version of Tucker assuming they themselves were close to their A game.

I do agree though that Tucker had potential coming out of his ears. It's a pity, being 6'5 with his agility and chin he should of been able to accomplish so much more.
Yes. I rate him highly from a skill point. He may not have accomplished as much as those guys you mentioned, but I think he was a better fighter overall.

[Jaws]

A prime Bowe defeats Vitali. He has a better and more varied skill set.

[MRBILL]

Fuck me raw................... Look............. All I'm stating is, Buster D. had the damn fight going his way in '87......... Tony Tucker looked clueless and ordinary against Douglas on the undercard of "Tyson-Thomas." Buster Douglas had the tools to beat Tucker, but his conditioning and stamina betrayed him once again......... Douglas was a lemon / flop, cuz he was a lazy slob for the most part of his career but, the guy had talent / skill....... Deep down, Douglas was better than Tucker....... But Tucker did have better training habits......... Cheers...........

MR.BILL:bbb:hat

[lefthook31]

Fuck me raw................... Look............. All I'm stating is, Buster D. had the damn fight going his way in '87......... Tony Tucker looked clueless and ordinary against Douglas on the undercard of "Tyson-Thomas." Buster Douglas had the tools to beat Tucker, but his conditioning and stamina betrayed him once again......... Douglas was a lemon / flop, cuz he was a lazy slob for the most part of his career but, the guy had talent / skill....... Deep down, Douglas was better than Tucker....... But Tucker did have better training habits......... Cheers...........

MR.BILL:bbb:hat

Thats kind of part of being a top fighter though. Its not all about talent. Toughness, training, discipline, etc all part of it. Douglas didnt have what it took in the trenches most times, he just wasnt interested in getting into a deep tough brawl. If he was, I believe your right he would have acomplished a lot more, because he did have real good skills, and you saw what he could do when he was willing to fight against Tyson.

[MRBILL]

Thats kind of part of being a top fighter though. Its not all about talent. Toughness, training, discipline, etc all part of it. Douglas didnt have what it took in the trenches most times, he just wasnt interested in getting into a deep tough brawl. If he was, I believe your right he would have acomplished a lot more, because he did have real good skills, and you saw what he could do when he was willing to fight against Tyson.

I already said Buster was a lazy slob............... That was his problem........ Still, like others such as: "Tubbs, Page & Dave Bey," Douglas had talent, but no real eye of the tiger................. The "Tyson" fight of '90 was Buster's BEST and ONLY great showing.............. Peace....

MR.BILL:thumbsup

[lefthook31]

I already said Buster was a lazy slob............... That was his problem........ Still, like others such as: "Tubbs, Page & Dave Bey," Douglas had talent, but no real eye of the tiger................. The "Tyson" fight of '90 was Buster's BEST and ONLY great showing.............. Peace....

MR.BILL:thumbsup
Your right. I wonder why that group was so dam lazy, with the talent some of them had.

[JohnThomas1]

Fuck me raw................... Look............. All I'm stating is, Buster D. had the damn fight going his way in '87......... Tony Tucker looked clueless and ordinary against Douglas on the undercard of "Tyson-Thomas." Buster Douglas had the tools to beat Tucker, but his conditioning and stamina betrayed him once again......... Douglas was a lemon / flop, cuz he was a lazy slob for the most part of his career but, the guy had talent / skill....... Deep down, Douglas was better than Tucker....... But Tucker did have better training habits......... Cheers...........

MR.BILL:bbb:hat

Douglas fought well vs Tucker but Tucker hung in and wore him down.

This is what you said

Tony Tucker WAS LOSING to Buster Douglas before Douglas ran outta gas and haired out in 1987......... Lucky win.......

Wrong, plain and simple. I agree Buster had more talent, but he sure lacked that x factor excepting mainly for one mysterious night where all the stars seemed to align his way, both via himself and Tyson.

[MRBILL]

Douglas fought well vs Tucker but Tucker hung in and wore him down.

This is what you said



Wrong, plain and simple. I agree Buster had more talent, but he sure lacked that x factor excepting mainly for one mysterious night where all the stars seemed to align his way, both via himself and Tyson.


Johnny Boy,

GODDAMMIT! Yes, Douglas had the talent and skill to win, but he was a slob and lost to Tucker in '87............ I know that................ BUT! If Douglas had better drive and focus in 1987, he'd have been the IBF chump back then instead of 1990............... Tucker did NOT beat Douglas; Douglas LOST!!! Douglas PISSED me off hard on that night............ I have the fight on tape.............. Fuckin' Buster simply had no more gas after round 6 and fizzled in the middle of the road............ Why? Cuz he was a lazy slob and trained like a wussy for Tucker.............. BUT!! The Sum Bitch had the talent and skill to win, just not the drive or focus............. ARGH!!!
:hat:bbb:rasta:admin

MR.BILL

[ChrisPontius]

I recently watched that fight on YouTube. To me it didn't seem like Douglas gassed, but Tucker simply caught him with a very good combination that made his body say "Fuck this, i'm out of here", even if he was still standing. For instance, in the beginning of the round when he suddenly deteriorated, he was still pretty quick with the jab and defensive reflexes. He didn't look like he was staggering around the ring from tiredness, to me.

It seems to me that the "Douglas running out of gas" has become urban legend over the decades since, but in my opinion, Tucker genuinely TKO'd him (as much as i like Douglas to win).

[lefthook31]

Johnny Boy,

GODDAMMIT! Yes, Douglas had the talent and skill to win, but he was a slob and lost to Tucker in '87............ I know that................ BUT! If Douglas had better drive and focus in 1987, he'd have been the IBF chump back then instead of 1990............... Tucker did NOT beat Douglas; Douglas LOST!!! Douglas PISSED me off hard on that night............ I have the fight on tape.............. Fuckin' Buster simply had no more gas after round 6 and fizzled in the middle of the road............ Why? Cuz he was a lazy slob and trained like a wussy for Tucker.............. BUT!! The Sum Bitch had the talent and skill to win, just not the drive or focus............. ARGH!!!
:hat:bbb:rasta:admin


MR.BILL

Is there hidden messages in all those dots? Some sort of boxing morse code? :hey

[MRBILL]

Jesus, I'm going back on memory, and I MIGHT need to pullout the tape for review, but I think I recall where Douglas did complain in the corner prior to the stoppage that he, QUOTE: "I Got Some Shit In My Eye." UNQUOTE...... Douglas did say that...... Now, what was wrong with his eye??? Was it a hair, vaseline or Tucker's jab / thumb???

MR.BILL:deal:bbb:huh

[Rubber Warrior]

I am really having trouble of thinking of a 90's heavyweight that I could say, with little doubt, would be a safe pick to defeat Vitali Klitschko head to head.
Other than Lewis, and Riddick Bowe, that is.

Holyfield did not look good as an aggressor. Though Vitali is larger, I still think he would make Holyfield come to him.

Vitali would be a TALL order for Mike Tyson, and I think a fight featuring the two would go the distance. I can't see a 90's Tyson getting the decision.

I think Andrew Golota would stand a real chance stylistically. I think Golota had the better jab, but he is too much of a head case to pick over a top notch opponent. I thought people were crazy to pick Michael Grant to beat Golota, and look what happened.

Riddick Bowe had trouble against opponents that could out jab him. Riddick Bowe only has one official loss, but he looked like the losing fighter on three occasions. On those occasions, he was in the ring with fighters that were capable of out jabbing him at times. Bowe was out of shape when he first faced Golota, but I don't think he was shot in the rematch. I believe Golota made him look so bad because he could out jab Bowe. Golota's jab was straighter and snappier, and that wasn't just because Bowe was all of 29 years old.

Vitali's jab looks to be more pesky than great to me, and I think Bowe may be able to win in this department. Bowe was a couple inches shorter than Vitali, but he has an inch in reach. Bowe also had a high punch output for a big man, and he throws far fewer arm punches than Vitali.

I think this could be a great fight. What do you think?

Stylistically, Bowe matches-up poorly with what we have been seeing from Lurch on his comeback. His arching overhand right would be deflected by Vitali's well-timed left arm as we saw over and over again with Arreola. Bowe never had a straight, short right hand....and even if he did it wouldn't help him with Vitali....again given the styles at play.

Bowe often shuffled forward behind his left jab and then threw that arching right. His left jab would be his best weapon with Vitali. His inside game wouldn't even be a factor.

For Klitschko's part, he likes to throw combinations, and I think after the first three or four rounds as Bowe becomes more frustrated he'd be landing them.

I'd bet the farm on the 38 year-old I saw a few months ago over Riddick Bowe.

[The Mongoose]

Stylistically, Bowe matches-up poorly with what we have been seeing from Lurch on his comeback. His arching overhand right would be deflected by Vitali's well-timed left arm as we saw over and over again with Arreola. Bowe never had a straight, short right hand....and even if he did it wouldn't help him with Vitali....again given the styles at play.

Bowe often shuffled forward behind his left jab and then threw that arching right. His left jab would be his best weapon with Vitali. His inside game wouldn't even be a factor.

For Klitschko's part, he likes to throw combinations, and I think after the first three or four rounds as Bowe becomes more frustrated he'd be landing them.

I'd bet the farm on the 38 year-old I saw a few months ago over Riddick Bowe.


Excellent observations. I agree completely. Bowe was often very sloppy with his right hand and Vitali won't give him the chance to go wild on the inside. Unlike the streaky Golota, Vitali can also keep that frustrating 80 punch output up round after round and finish the fight.

[lefthook31]

Stylistically, Bowe matches-up poorly with what we have been seeing from Lurch on his comeback. His arching overhand right would be deflected by Vitali's well-timed left arm as we saw over and over again with Arreola. Bowe never had a straight, short right hand....and even if he did it wouldn't help him with Vitali....again given the styles at play.

Bowe often shuffled forward behind his left jab and then threw that arching right. His left jab would be his best weapon with Vitali. His inside game wouldn't even be a factor.

For Klitschko's part, he likes to throw combinations, and I think after the first three or four rounds as Bowe becomes more frustrated he'd be landing them.

I'd bet the farm on the 38 year-old I saw a few months ago over Riddick Bowe.
The overhand right that Bowe throws works even better on tall opponents. Its easier to land. has Vitali ever faced a 6'5" guy that comes forward and throws bombs and does it pretty good? Why yes, it was Lennox Lewis... Bowe's game was exactly the fight that Lewis instituted against Vitali. Vitali doesnt have a good pumping jab that keeps fighters at bay either. Bowe would be up in his chest quicker than Lewis was, and then Vitali would fall apart.

[MRBILL]

Well, Bowdacious looked great against Jorge L. Gonzo in 1995 on HBO, but Gonzo was merely a hulking amateur with many flaws............ R.B. looked great cuz of the match-up............

I doubt Bowdacious would find Vitali Klit that easy to find and reach........ Vitali Klit has more skill and determination than Gonzo ever had............ That also goes for Golota too......... Klit eats BOTH "Gonzo & Golota" for supper............

I see Bowe as dead meat against V.K.

MR.BILL

[Rubber Warrior]

The overhand right that Bowe throws works even better on tall opponents. Its easier to land. has Vitali ever faced a 6'5" guy that comes forward and throws bombs and does it pretty good? Why yes, it was Lennox Lewis... Bowe's game was exactly the fight that Lewis instituted against Vitali. Vitali doesnt have a good pumping jab that keeps fighters at bay either. Bowe would be up in his chest quicker than Lewis was, and then Vitali would fall apart.

That arching overhead right only gets there if it isn't blocked....and Vitali WOULD block it.

Shall we take this the whole distance?

The fight would never have happened. Vitali's KO percentage is too damned high. Riddick left the punchers for Lennox to handle.

;)

[lefthook31]

That arching overhead right only gets there if it isn't blocked....and Vitali WOULD block it.

Shall we take this the whole distance?

The fight would never have happened. Vitali's KO percentage is too damned high. Riddick left the punchers for Lennox to handle.

;)
Cmon, Vitali couldnt carry a retiring Lennox Lewis' jockstrap. Prime Bowe was a monster offensive fighter. You cant block an overhand right anyway, especially thrown from a guy thats 6'5! :p

[Rubber Warrior]

Cmon, Vitali couldnt carry a retiring Lennox Lewis' jockstrap. Prime Bowe was a monster offensive fighter. You cant block an overhand right anyway, especially thrown from a guy thats 6'5! :p

First, you CAN block a sloppy, arching overhand right...but what you suggest in back-handed fashion is that Bowe would need a straight right...and THAT he didn't have.

Besides, Vitali is WAY more focused than Bowe ever was.

[lefthook31]

First, you CAN block a sloppy, arching overhand right...but what you suggest in back-handed fashion is that Bowe would need a straight right...and THAT he didn't have.

Besides, Vitali is WAY more focused than Bowe ever was.
You ever see anyone block Bowes righthand? Watch the Gonzalez fight and you'll basically see how Bowe would deal with a taller man thats back pedaling (not to suggest Gonzalez is in Vitali's league). Not sure I would classify Bowes overhand right as sloppy either he got good leverage for a big man.

[Rubber Warrior]

You ever see anyone block Bowes righthand? Watch the Gonzalez fight and you'll basically see how Bowe would deal with a taller man thats back pedaling (not to suggest Gonzalez is in Vitali's league). Not sure I would classify Bowes overhand right as sloppy either he got good leverage for a big man.

He had leverage on his sloppy arching overhand right - yes.

Gonzalez and Vitali are a hemisphere apart in terms of ability, focus, professionalism and grit.

[lefthook31]

He had leverage on his sloppy arching overhand right - yes.

Gonzalez and Vitali are a hemisphere apart in terms of ability, focus, professionalism and grit.
The problem with me and Riddick Bowe and I often get into pissing matches about him, is because I saw a very good fighter coming up the ranks. I saw a guy who showed tremendous championship heart in taking Evander Holyfields title. No fighter up until that point or after was able to do to that version of Evander Holyfield what Bowe did. Even in the Golota fights the shell of Bowe was still able to make Golota foul out and quit. Has Vitali ever faced a fighter like that even? How would he respond to Bowe who would basically have to be KO'd to stop him. Hes never come out of a tough grueling fight on top even with a depleted great fighter.
That took focus, determination and ten tons more grit than Vitali has ever shown in his career. That in itself is what propels a fighter with less physical attributes to conquer bigger stronger men, and what what Evander made a career out of. So when you factor that in with Bowe's size and ability at his best, he was truly one of the great talents.
That being said, it was short lived and wasted by his total lack of understanding that staying in shape was paramount for competing on the championship level regardless of what opponent was in front of him.
So really Bowe peaked at the first Evander Holyfield fight, that was the best he could be, and what I usually think of when comparing him to other fighters. What would Bowe at his best do to Vitali K. If your speaking of the Bowe that fought Herbie Hide, or Golota, thats a different story, and I fully understand why most people dont think highly of him, but talent for talent, Bowe was a better fighter than Vitali in all departments.

[Mendoza]

Stylistically, Bowe matches-up poorly with what we have been seeing from Lurch on his comeback. His arching overhand right would be deflected by Vitali's well-timed left arm as we saw over and over again with Arreola. Bowe never had a straight, short right hand....and even if he did it wouldn't help him with Vitali....again given the styles at play.

Bowe often shuffled forward behind his left jab and then threw that arching right. His left jab would be his best weapon with Vitali. His inside game wouldn't even be a factor.

For Klitschko's part, he likes to throw combinations, and I think after the first three or four rounds as Bowe becomes more frustrated he'd be landing them.

I'd bet the farm on the 38 year-old I saw a few months ago over Riddick Bowe.

Rubber Warrior nails it.

[rekcutnevets]

Posted by Rubber Warrior
Stylistically, Bowe matches-up poorly with what we have been seeing from Lurch on his comeback. His arching overhand right would be deflected by Vitali's well-timed left arm as we saw over and over again with Arreola. Bowe never had a straight, short right hand....and even if he did it wouldn't help him with Vitali....again given the styles at play.

Bowe often shuffled forward behind his left jab and then threw that arching right. His left jab would be his best weapon with Vitali. His inside game wouldn't even be a factor.

For Klitschko's part, he likes to throw combinations, and I think after the first three or four rounds as Bowe becomes more frustrated he'd be landing them.

I'd bet the farm on the 38 year-old I saw a few months ago over Riddick Bowe.
This fight would be determined with the jab. Riddick Bowe was only troubled by fighters that could out jab him.

Riddick Bowe was outjabbed, at times, by Tubbs, Holyfield, and Golota. Vitali does not have that type of jab. Vitali jabs are less committed feelers. Vitali is a fighter Bowe stands a good chance of winning the jab battle against.

Bowe gives up a couple inches in height, but has an inch advantage in reach. It is not as though Bowe is a much shorter fighter Vitali can move in and out of ranch at will against. Bowe would be looking to nail him with the jab, and anything else he can afterward.

Bowe's right hand would be far more dangerous than Arreola's, because of Bowe's ability to establish his jab.