James Bonecrusher Smith, 1984-1989

[IntentionalButt]

This guy never had a prime, entering the game at nearly 30 (and overweight, given a lesson and a spanking in his debut by James Broad). The closest to one he can be said to have had, in a career spanning the full breadth of two decades, was this six year period...wherein his record holds a dull glimmer of 10-7-1 (7).

Let's examine that period, though.

Hands Frank Bruno his first defeat by KO from hopelessly behind on points.

Lasts into the 12th with a reigning Larry Holmes, and buzzes the champ a bit before succumbing to his eye being nearly gouged out by an ATG jab.

Goes the distance with unbeaten Tony Tubbs, an estimable enough feat at the time.

Drops and defeats once-conquered Jose Ribalta (who would later KO Leon Spinks in two minutes, for what that's worth - and face a who's who of 80's and 90's heavies, all losing efforts)

Drops decisions to Terrible Tim Witherspoon and Marvis Frazier (breaking the latter's jaw).

Destroys Mike Hercules Weaver.

Outpoints contenders Jesse Ferguson and David Bey.

Avenges the loss to 'Spoon in savage fashion and becomes one of the unlikeliest world champions of all time.

Survives to hear the scores read and see a peak Iron Mike's hand raised...and in a few rare moments when actually imposing his strength, foreshadows Mike's vulnerability.

Drops a split decision to Adilson Rodrigues (actually netting 6 more cumulative points across the panel of cards).

Accepts a technical draw when undefeated Mike Rouse is unable to continue after a cut from a butt.

Sets a prime Razor Ruddock horizontal for the first time (from a punch anyway) and with memorable flair, before allowing the semolina to fade from Donovan's knees and ultimately getting smashed himself by the Smash.

Stops three men in the remaining five months of that year (including a finish of the job he'd started on Rouse) before his weight began to skyrocket and his remaining ten-year tenure as a prizefighter degenerated into a series of unremarkable victories and lopsided losses to mostly average opposition.

That's quite the wild ride for a late bloomer with a paltry amateur background.

Conclusion? When he was in shape and under the care of Don King, fighting very good fighters and losing to the best of them (but almost invariably hurting them in the process) - he was an absolute spoiler and a tough SOB. He'd force his own odd pace, mug you like a tourist if you let him, start flopping like a fish if you were landing flush (still taking punishment but reducing its efficacy), and make you pay through the nose if you made a mistake.

84-89 Smith would make life hell for nearly all of the top guys in the division today, with his physicality alone.

Imagine what could have been had he made his start ten years younger and perhaps fifteen pounds lighter, bringing more technique and experience to his 80's resume? :think

[MRBILL]

Bonecrusher Smith did have a prime....... It was in 1986 at age 33 / 34........... In '86, Smith beat "Weaver, Ferguson, Bey & Spoon." His prime was short lived, but Smith was the # 1 contender at heavyweight in 1986...........

MR.BILL

[Unforgiven]

He punched like a mule kicks. He really hit hard, incredibly hard.

His stoppage of Weaver was awesome .......

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He didn't do much else but punch though. He could take a punch but didn't really have a load of heart, he'd coast and stall a lot and fail to throw enough punches. When he let his hands go though and throw the heavy artillery, he was more than a handle.

[IntentionalButt]

Bonecrusher Smith did have a prime....... It was in 1986 at age 33 / 34........... In '86, Smith beat "Weaver, Ferguson, Bey & Spoon." His prime was short lived, but Smith was the # 1 contender at heavyweight in 1986...........

MR.BILL

Out of what's available in his real-world exploits, '86 is about as strong a case as can be made. But you don't think he might have been even more dangerous had he spent more time in the amateurs or turned pro earlier? An imaginary "physically and mentally prime" Smith - a more well-schooled, early-20's, 210lb Smith - seems to me like it could make for a pretty effective head to head presence.

[TheGreatA]

He hit as hard as anybody. Perhaps with some amateur experience and youth he could have been quite a bit better than he was. Still didn't do bad though for a man of his limitations.

[IntentionalButt]

He hit as hard as anybody. Perhaps with some amateur experience and youth he could have been quite a bit better than he was. Still didn't do bad though for a man of his limitations.

My sentiments exactly. :good

[Unforgiven]

He had more amateur fights than Tim Witherspoon or Pinklon Thomas if I remember rightly.

Thomas had something like 2 or 3.
I've heard Witherspoon only had 6 amateur fights ! But he was from Philly in the days when training there was like two fights a day !

I think Smith had about 20 fights when he was in the army.

[MRBILL]

"Lazy Bones" had strength and conditioning early on, and up until 1987 thru '89.... Smith was in-shape in 1989 for his 6th round KO loss to "Dull" Razor Ruddock on CBS, but age had caught up to Smith by then............ Smith's last significant win was against Greg Page in 1994 or something.... I never saw it.............. I have Smith's ugly TKO to Holmes in 1999.............

As for starting earlier, who knows?? "Lazy Bones" was always stiff and ponderous in his speed / movement......... His slowness and lack of reflexes is what hurt him the most....... Again, early on Smith had the work ethic, but not the true talent.........

MR.BILL


Note:

Smith was gross at 275 pounds for Holmes who was 250 himself in '99 on PPV......... Still, Holmes proved why he is considered a true master of the ring..........:deal

[mr. magoo]

As already mentioned, James was a big man who had a solid punch and a serviceable chin. He had an interesting life outside the ring as well. Apparently he was a prison guard in his 20's, while learning a bit about boxing here and there, plus became the first heavyweight champion to have completed his masters degree. He eventually purchased an insurance company in one of the Carolina states where he lived. James continued to fight well into his 40's and finished his career with bouts against old time household names like Holmes, Bugner and Weaver...

Smith retired as an educated, well balanced ( and probably wealthy man.) I'm thinking that it must be something to know him in private life.

[IntentionalButt]

He's a reverend and philanthropist, now. It's cool that to see an ex-champ make good later in life, as many wind up in tragic situations.


In 1995, James helped establish the NC Boxing Commission and served as its first chairman.:think

I'd love to pick his brain some time, if for no other reason than to confirm or deny the alleged killing-a-horse-with-a-single-blow incident. :yep

[lefthook31]

Out of what's available in his real-world exploits, '86 is about as strong a case as can be made. But you don't think he might have been even more dangerous had he spent more time in the amateurs or turned pro earlier? An imaginary "physically and mentally prime" Smith - a more well-schooled, early-20's, 210lb Smith - seems to me like it could make for a pretty effective head to head presence.
Possibly, and most likely he would have beaten some of the lower tier guys he lost to, but I dont think he would have ever gotten past Tyson, so realistically the big win over Witherspoon would have always been a highlight to his career. He was a bit mechanical and slow, so I would say he had respectable career overall. Guys like him (big strong), usually learn on the job. Hasim Rahman only had 10 amatuer fights, and he had a somewhat comparable run in the pros with a big upset over the then, champion.

[Titan1]

He had more amateur fights than Tim Witherspoon or Pinklon Thomas if I remember rightly.

Thomas had something like 2 or 3.
I've heard Witherspoon only had 6 amateur fights ! But he was from Philly in the days when training there was like two fights a day !

I think Smith had about 20 fights when he was in the army.

Actually lost to Marvis Frazier as an amateur.

[MRBILL]

Actually lost to Marvis Frazier as an amateur.

Smith lost to M. Frazier in '85 as a pro, but not before decking Frazier in the middle rds of their fight........
:scaredas::thumbsup

MR.BILL

P.S.

Marvis had a good '85 with wins over "Tillis and Smith."

[Titan1]

Smith lost to M. Frazier in '85 as a pro, but not before decking Frazier in the middle rds of their fight........
:scaredas::thumbsup

MR.BILL

P.S.

Marvis had a good '85 with wins over "Tillis and Smith."

I think he was starting to come on again.Then that fight with Tyson came up:verysad.

[Mendoza]

This guy never had a prime, entering the game at nearly 30 (and overweight, given a lesson and a spanking in his debut by James Broad). The closest to one he can be said to have had, in a career spanning the full breadth of two decades, was this six year period...wherein his record holds a dull glimmer of 10-7-1 (7).

Let's examine that period, though.

Hands Frank Bruno his first defeat by KO from hopelessly behind on points.

Lasts into the 12th with a reigning Larry Holmes, and buzzes the champ a bit before succumbing to his eye being nearly gouged out by an ATG jab.

Goes the distance with unbeaten Tony Tubbs, an estimable enough feat at the time.

Drops and defeats once-conquered Jose Ribalta (who would later KO Leon Spinks in two minutes, for what that's worth - and face a who's who of 80's and 90's heavies, all losing efforts)

Drops decisions to Terrible Tim Witherspoon and Marvis Frazier (breaking the latter's jaw).

Destroys Mike Hercules Weaver.

Outpoints contenders Jesse Ferguson and David Bey.

Avenges the loss to 'Spoon in savage fashion and becomes one of the unlikeliest world champions of all time.

Survives to hear the scores read and see a peak Iron Mike's hand raised...and in a few rare moments when actually imposing his strength, foreshadows Mike's vulnerability.

Drops a split decision to Adilson Rodrigues (actually netting 6 more cumulative points across the panel of cards).

Accepts a technical draw when undefeated Mike Rouse is unable to continue after a cut from a butt.

Sets a prime Razor Ruddock horizontal for the first time (from a punch anyway) and with memorable flair, before allowing the semolina to fade from Donovan's knees and ultimately getting smashed himself by the Smash.

Stops three men in the remaining five months of that year (including a finish of the job he'd started on Rouse) before his weight began to skyrocket and his remaining ten-year tenure as a prizefighter degenerated into a series of unremarkable victories and lopsided losses to mostly average opposition.

That's quite the wild ride for a late bloomer with a paltry amateur background.

Conclusion? When he was in shape and under the care of Don King, fighting very good fighters and losing to the best of them (but almost invariably hurting them in the process) - he was an absolute spoiler and a tough SOB. He'd force his own odd pace, mug you like a tourist if you let him, start flopping like a fish if you were landing flush (still taking punishment but reducing its efficacy), and make you pay through the nose if you made a mistake.

84-89 Smith would make life hell for nearly all of the top guys in the division today, with his physicality alone.

Imagine what could have been had he made his start ten years younger and perhaps fifteen pounds lighter, bringing more technique and experience to his 80's resume? :think


Nice career summary. Smith fought to his strengths. If he stared the game a bit earlier Smith could have been a better managed fighter, but he also would not have taken many of the risks that made him a fan favorite of sorts.

[MRBILL]

Smith was good but also flawed........ But prior to 1990, he was a contender who deserved some respect and credit........... Again, Smith's peak was indeed 1986........ It was the greatest year of his career.........

In 1987, Smith went to hell in boxing, yet made a lot of money........ His loss to Tyson on HBO sucked huge ass.... I, as did the rest of the world, expected a lot more from them two in their encounter for the WBC / WBA title......... I rarely review the tape cuz the fight sucked so bad.......

Smith's loss to Adilson Rodrigues was horrid.......... I don't care if Angie Dundee trained Rodrigues or not,I thought Rodrigues was a stinky fighter who also sucked ass............

The last fight in which Smith had a chance to do something was in his 1990 rematch with Mike Weaver..... Smith won again, but this time both guys appeared dreadful........ Again, I rarely glance at the tape cuz the fight stunk like on of those after the meal Taco Bell farts......

I have the tape of "Smith-Moorer" from 1993 on tape........... Moorer won, but not in an impressive manner at all...... Moorer fought Smith as if Smith's power was still a factor; it was too..........

My last glimpse on tape from "Old Bones" was his shameful and gross '99 rematch with Lawrence Holmes on PPV........ Smith was a slob at 275 pounds and Holmes was chubby but still a master at 250 pounds...... Holmes beat the piss outta Smith for a TKO victory.........

Christ, I haven't seen or heard from Bonecrusher Smith in 10 yrs....... I've been in the Carolina's since 2004......... Smith is the Invisible Man here....... I'm also guessing he's 300+ pounds, as well...........

MR.BILL:deal

[kinski]

Definitely an underachiever.

[MRBILL]

Definitely an underachiever.

Bullshit.... He won the WBA title and was always considered strong, powerful but limited in skills.......... Smith did more than ever expected of him....... He has a legacy......... No, not a great one, but he'll be remembered as the yrs toll...........
:deal:bbb

MR.BILL

[kinski]

Oh really?! U never knew what bonecrusher was going 2 show up! He lost fights he should of won! Legacy?! He'll b most rememebered for that awful performance against Tyson! Not a put down of him,tho. Just the truth.

[Cachibatches]

Two things about Bonecrusher that should never be forgotten: he was the first college graduate heavyweight champ, and and incredibly soft spoken gentleman. No, he wasn't the best, but he was a champion of life.

[Rubber Warrior]

This guy never had a prime, entering the game at nearly 30 (and overweight, given a lesson and a spanking in his debut by James Broad). The closest to one he can be said to have had, in a career spanning the full breadth of two decades, was this six year period...wherein his record holds a dull glimmer of 10-7-1 (7).

Let's examine that period, though.

Hands Frank Bruno his first defeat by KO from hopelessly behind on points.

Lasts into the 12th with a reigning Larry Holmes, and buzzes the champ a bit before succumbing to his eye being nearly gouged out by an ATG jab.

Goes the distance with unbeaten Tony Tubbs, an estimable enough feat at the time.

Drops and defeats once-conquered Jose Ribalta (who would later KO Leon Spinks in two minutes, for what that's worth - and face a who's who of 80's and 90's heavies, all losing efforts)

Drops decisions to Terrible Tim Witherspoon and Marvis Frazier (breaking the latter's jaw).

Destroys Mike Hercules Weaver.

Outpoints contenders Jesse Ferguson and David Bey.

Avenges the loss to 'Spoon in savage fashion and becomes one of the unlikeliest world champions of all time.

Survives to hear the scores read and see a peak Iron Mike's hand raised...and in a few rare moments when actually imposing his strength, foreshadows Mike's vulnerability.

Drops a split decision to Adilson Rodrigues (actually netting 6 more cumulative points across the panel of cards).

Accepts a technical draw when undefeated Mike Rouse is unable to continue after a cut from a butt.

Sets a prime Razor Ruddock horizontal for the first time (from a punch anyway) and with memorable flair, before allowing the semolina to fade from Donovan's knees and ultimately getting smashed himself by the Smash.

Stops three men in the remaining five months of that year (including a finish of the job he'd started on Rouse) before his weight began to skyrocket and his remaining ten-year tenure as a prizefighter degenerated into a series of unremarkable victories and lopsided losses to mostly average opposition.

That's quite the wild ride for a late bloomer with a paltry amateur background.

Conclusion? When he was in shape and under the care of Don King, fighting very good fighters and losing to the best of them (but almost invariably hurting them in the process) - he was an absolute spoiler and a tough SOB. He'd force his own odd pace, mug you like a tourist if you let him, start flopping like a fish if you were landing flush (still taking punishment but reducing its efficacy), and make you pay through the nose if you made a mistake.

84-89 Smith would make life hell for nearly all of the top guys in the division today, with his physicality alone.

Imagine what could have been had he made his start ten years younger and perhaps fifteen pounds lighter, bringing more technique and experience to his 80's resume? :think

Excellent. Very well written. :good

[Bummy Davis]

He was a big heavyweight with decent power...there was a mental weakness here though. I remember him doing well against Holmes but caught a thumb and a cut and did not like the sight or feel of his own blood...Fighters instinct was missing here...not enough killer and bite back

[IntentionalButt]

He was a big heavyweight with decent power...there was a mental weakness here though. I remember him doing well against Holmes but caught a thumb and a cut and did not like the sight or feel of his own blood...Fighters instinct was missing here...not enough killer and bite back

That can be built up in a younger man, though - that's sort of the crux of my hypothesis. He had 6 remarkable years (belied by a pretty awful win-loss record at a superficial glance) well beyond what he ought to have accomplished given his late start and lack of a solid foundation.

[Russell]

Anyone remember him lamely quitting against Butler?

Think his jaw was broken, but he went down in a sad way.

[MRBILL]

Anyone remember him lamely quitting against Butler?

Think his jaw was broken, but he went down in a sad way.

I have that fight............. Bones was 40ish and merely dickin' around at that point...... I actually thought Lionel Butler was gonna go somewhere at heavyweight, but then he choked against Lewis on HBO........
:bbb

MR.BILL

[ThinBlack]

Very good heavyweight with tremendous power.Was lucky to get his shot against Witherspoon in '86, for Mitch Green would have beaten him in NC had they fought.

[MAG1965]

He never had a real prime but he did have a peak time when he was a tough guy to beat and that was 1986. The counter he put on Mike Weaver was classic. Bonecrusher could punch.

[SuzieQ49]

A great read about James Bonecrusher Smith in Phil Berger's 1980s boxing book. basically sums up his career and life in one chapter. Smith used to go see a psychiatrist after losing 3 out of 4 to Tubbs, Spoon, Frazier...who told him "The ring is your domain. You have to protect your turf." He went on to rebound and knockout Weaver and Spoon. The same Pyschiatrist was with him during those fights.

[Chicago Nights]

I admit I have an extreme bias against fighters I consider boring. I will always lean in my evaluation ratings towards the Tommy Morrison's of the world who while not elite, provide great entertainment and leave it all on the line. Having said that, I think alot of people are giving the guy way too much credit just because he was a class act outside of boxing. Fact is the man fought in one of the worst eras for HW's, and had one of the most decieving nicknames ever. He had some pop, but guess what, he rarely put it together. More like James "Hold n Hit" Smith. He was just a guy, a filler body while we waited for the era of Holmes to end and Tyson's to begin. He's one of the reasons HBO's tourney was put together, the people were sick of belts being passed around for the mediocre to try on for 5 months.

[Doc Dynamo]

A great read about James Bonecrusher Smith in Phil Berger's 1980s boxing book. basically sums up his career and life in one chapter. Smith used to go see a psychiatrist after losing 3 out of 4 to Tubbs, Spoon, Frazier...who told him "The ring is your domain. You have to protect your turf." He went on to rebound and knockout Weaver and Spoon. The same Pyschiatrist was with him during those fights.


What did the shrink tell him before the Tyson fight: "Mike is your life raft, hnag on to him for dear life."