What ATG Heavyweights, If Any, Could Jack Dempsey Have Beaten?

[EleventhHour]

Hmmmm?

[Shake]

Patterson, for one. Norton. Shavers. Wladimir Klitschko.

[Unforgiven]

Muhammad Ali

[PowerPuncher]

Patterson, for one. Norton. Shavers. Wladimir Klitschko.

The first 3 maybe, none are givens and all could potentionally KO him. Wlad, no chance, Dempsey couldnt get past Tunneys jab yet hes getting past a jab of Wlad who has 10 inches more reach and 6 inches more height? Not to mention Wlads jab maybe heavier than any punch Dempseys taken

Maybe he'd beat a few from Jeffries/Langford/Wills/Corbett/Fitz if you call them ATG HWs

[AussieMauler]

If we are considering Wlad all time then Dempsey chews on him all day until he quits. Just something about the level of mongrel in Dempsey that i think Wlad cant handle.

Odd that i think Vitali (all time ?) steam rolls Dempsey

[Mr Butt]

The first 3 maybe, none are givens and all could potentionally KO him. Wlad, no chance, Dempsey couldnt get past Tunneys jab yet hes getting past a jab of Wlad who has 10 inches more reach and 6 inches more height? Not to mention Wlads jab maybe heavier than any punch Dempseys taken

Maybe he'd beat a few from Jeffries/Langford/Wills/Corbett/Fitz if you call them ATG HWs

not saying dempsey would beat wlad, but reach when comparing wlads jab to tunney's may not be the key point from dempsey's point of view it may be the speed which it is delivered by tunney's jab seems to me to be quicker than wlad's

[RockyJim]

In his prime...Dempsey was a FIGHTER...no dancing...no shuffle...no gold medals...
....early on in his life the man had to fight to stay alive...put the Dempsey who fought Willard on July 4,1919 in the ring with anyone!!!

[guilalah]

Any of them. Probably has a better chance against his succesors if one imagines them coming along at the same time, rather than time-machined together. But even the time machine scenario is a long way from hopeless.

[janitor]

Any of them on a given day.

I doubt that anybody could have gone 3-0 against a prime Dempsey.

[lefthook89]

Muhammad Ali

no, just.....no. dempsey to sloppy and too predictable for someone like ali. ali would complately embaress his for 15 rounds straight with dempsey's face beaten beyond recognition. dempsey is one of my all time favorite heavys, but this is a fight that would end his career. dempsey can beat marciano, patterson, maybe cleveland williams.

[janitor]

no, just.....no. dempsey to sloppy and too predictable for someone like ali. ali would complately embaress his for 15 rounds straight with dempsey's face beaten beyond recognition.

There was nothing sloppy or predictable about Dempsey.

When you break down what he did it was practicaly picture perfect in terms of his style.

[Duodenum]

All of them.

[TommyV]

Maybe he'd beat a few from Jeffries/Langford/Wills/Corbett/Fitz if you call them ATG HWs

If? Jeffries & Wills are definate ATG heavweights.

[Dempsey1238]

Any giving day, any atg heavyweight could beat each other.

IE Marciano could beat Dempsey, but at the same time, it can be aruge the other way around.

We never know for sure, its all guesses one way or other, no cold facts.

[Boilermaker]

The first 3 maybe, none are givens and all could potentionally KO him. Wlad, no chance, Dempsey couldnt get past Tunneys jab yet hes getting past a jab of Wlad who has 10 inches more reach and 6 inches more height? Not to mention Wlads jab maybe heavier than any punch Dempseys taken

10 inches longer, half a second slower and thrown about 10 times less per round!


Maybe he'd beat a few from Jeffries/Langford/Wills/Corbett/Fitz if you call them ATG HWs

if?:lol:

[he grant]

Dempsey lost to Tunney because his legs were shot and his speed with it ... In addition Tunney was vastly more skilled, faster and better conditioned than either K Brother. In his prime Dempsey crushes either guy, especially Jr. with his china chin.

As far as beating all time greats, matters who you consider an all time great. I see him losing a fast paced decision to Ali but could have beaten Rocky. He has an even money shot against Frazier and a decent shot against Holmes and Foreman.

Lennox likely too big and too good. Tyson the same. Holyfield a hell of a match but I like Evander. Johnson decisions him.

[PetethePrince]

no, just.....no. dempsey to sloppy and too predictable for someone like ali. ali would complately embaress his for 15 rounds straight with dempsey's face beaten beyond recognition. dempsey is one of my all time favorite heavys, but this is a fight that would end his career. dempsey can beat marciano, patterson, maybe cleveland williams.

Dempsey has a better chance against Ali than Marciano I think.

[Seamus]

Another moronically phrased question on this board. Are you people all fucking morons? Could he have beaten? Could? Well, shit, he COULD have beaten damn near any of them, being himself a heavyweight possessed of excellent power. Which WOULD I pick him over, that's a different question. But then again, framing an articulate question in these parts is as rare as... well, a fighter of Dempsey's calibre.

[djanders]

Dempsey, in his prime, at his best, would have given any of them hell...of that, I'm sure! :good

[OuterDrake]

I don't think Dempsey even beats Ray Mercer

[Unforgiven]

Another moronically phrased question on this board.

Another moronic post from Seamus.

Are you people all fucking morons?

Does a moron know he's a moron ?

Could he have beaten? Could? Well, shit, he COULD have beaten damn near any of them, being himself a heavyweight possessed of excellent power.

We'll take that as your answer then. :good

Which WOULD I pick him over, that's a different question.

A different question, indeed.

But then again, framing an articulate question in these parts is as rare as... well, a fighter of Dempsey's calibre.

The question "What ATG Heavyweights, If Any, Could Jack Dempsey Have Beaten?" is perfectly clear to anyone with a brain, and even you seem to understand it.

[turpinr]

ali,foreman,liston,holmes,louis,lewis,walcott and tyson all beat dempsey.

[nastynas]

I dont seem to rate Dempsey anywhere nearly as high as some of the posters in the classic section do. Is there something Im missing? B/c the only heavyweight champions I see him beating with a decent probability is Fitzsimmons, Jeffries, Sharkey, Braddock, and maybe Patterson==depending on which ones of those you consider great.

[Ezzard]

An all-time great left hook, great speed, finishing, great swarmer with a good defence... Dempsey could and would beat many greats.

[bodhi]

On his best day any of them but he could also lose to everyone.

[Shake]

The first 3 maybe, none are givens and all could potentionally KO him. Wlad, no chance, Dempsey couldnt get past Tunneys jab yet hes getting past a jab of Wlad who has 10 inches more reach and 6 inches more height? Not to mention Wlads jab maybe heavier than any punch Dempseys taken

Maybe he'd beat a few from Jeffries/Langford/Wills/Corbett/Fitz if you call them ATG HWs

It is rare on this board, but I concede the point. Dempsey has a good puncher's chance against Wlad, but the odds are indeed against him. I don't agree that he has no chance at all because of his fast offense, but he's just so much smaller. I would definitely make him a favorite against Shavers, though.

[Mendoza]

Hmmmm?

Could have beaten? Any. Dempsey's speed, power, and agility are impressive. He has a punchers chance vs. anyone.

[mcvey]

another moronically phrased question on this board. Are you people all fucking morons? Could he have beaten? Could? Well, shit, he could have beaten damn near any of them, being himself a heavyweight possessed of excellent power. Which would i pick him over, that's a different question. But then again, framing an articulate question in these parts is as rare as... Well, a fighter of dempsey's calibre.

We are not worthy of you master.

You humble us with your presence.

[Seamus]

Another moronic post from Seamus.



Does a moron know he's a moron ?



We'll take that as your answer then. :good



A different question, indeed.



The question "What ATG Heavyweights, If Any, Could Jack Dempsey Have Beaten?" is perfectly clear to anyone with a brain, and even you seem to understand it.

No, it's not. It was another horribly phrased question on this board. Yet, you people seem perfectly satisfied by its lack of context and logical direction. That speaks a lot for wanting intellects.

[KTFO]

ATGs? None.

[lefthook89]

Dempsey has a better chance against Ali than Marciano I think.

i would say so too as dempsey had better boxing fundamentals than marciano, but i still think ali would embaress him.

[Boilermaker]

I dont seem to rate Dempsey anywhere nearly as high as some of the posters in the classic section do. Is there something Im missing? B/c the only heavyweight champions I see him beating with a decent probability is Fitzsimmons, Jeffries, Sharkey, Braddock, and maybe Patterson==depending on which ones of those you consider great.

I am extremely interested in your choice of heavyweight champions.

I am guessing that you forgot to put Willard on the list, or are you thinking that the old Willard Dempsey faced was a much easier task than Prime Jess willard?

Sharkey, i definitely agree on, considering Dempsey already beat him.

Fitzsimmons and Braddock, i can see why you might think this, although i do think you might be pleasently surprised by Fitz' chances if you look into things further.

the two selections i have difficulty understanding, why they were selected from a range of other champions are Jeffries and Patterson. In particular, why did you select Jeffries from many others? He had size, speed, stamina, chin and strenght (arguably all better than dempsey), so why do you single him out over so many others?

I

[prime]

Holmes
Foreman
Frazier
Louis
Marciano
Liston
Jeffries
Lewis

[janitor]

i would say so too as dempsey had better boxing fundamentals than marciano, but i still think ali would embaress him.

Ali did not exactly embaras Doug Jones, Henry cooper or George Chuvalo.

You need to be more realistic here.

[turpinr]

Holmes
Foreman
Frazier
Louis
Marciano
Liston
Jeffries
Lewisare you serious ??:think:think

[KTFO]

Jack Dempsey was an unskilled slugger who relied on powershots and chin, that's all. That guy got in several streetfights that were provoked by himself. He even put a horse shoe into his boxing glove to gain an advantage. It can't be said how many fights were manipulated by the mob in favour of Dempsey, but you can imagine. Dempsey lost to journeymen and got awful lot of draws in his record. The only big win in his resume was against Jess Willard who was an unskilled bum too, but even worse than Dempsey. Some questionable title defenses followed, apparantly fixed by the mob, until Gene Tunney schooled him a boxing lesson. Dempsey wouldn't pull a win against any of the modern ATGs, not to speak about modern superheavies.

[janitor]

[quote=KTFO;5335327]Jack Dempsey was an unskilled slugger who relied on powershots and chin, that's all.

If you think that then you either havnt seen footage of Dempsey or don't know what you are looking at.

Even if you have only seen the worst footage available you should be able to pick out more than that.

That guy got in several streetfights that were provoked by himself. He even put a horse shoe into his boxing glove to gain an advantage.

What evidence is there for either of these claims?

It can't be said how many fights were manipulated by the mob in favour of Dempsey, but you can imagine.

What evidence do you have that Dempsey was backed by the mob?

Dempsey lost to journeymen and got awful lot of draws in his record.

This was an era where fighters were thrown into the profesional ranks with no amateur fights and you somtimes got a draw for finishing a fight on your feet.

If you are going to judge a fighter only on the basis of his boxrec resume then at least try to understand the era.

The only big win in his resume was against Jess Willard who was an unskilled bum too, but even worse than Dempsey.

Miske, Fulton, Brennan, Firpo, Gibbons and Sharkey were all big wins at the time.

until Gene Tunney schooled him a boxing lesson. Dempsey wouldn't pull a win against any of the modern ATGs, not to speak about modern superheavies.

I think you need to go back to the drawing bourd with Dempsey.

You clearly don't understand his style, era, opponents or even his career history.

[cross_trainer]

Jack Dempsey was an unskilled slugger who relied on powershots and chin, that's all. That guy got in several streetfights that were provoked by himself. He even put a horse shoe into his boxing glove to gain an advantage. It can't be said how many fights were manipulated by the mob in favour of Dempsey, but you can imagine. Dempsey lost to journeymen and got awful lot of draws in his record. The only big win in his resume was against Jess Willard who was an unskilled bum too, but even worse than Dempsey. Some questionable title defenses followed, apparantly fixed by the mob, until Gene Tunney schooled him a boxing lesson. Dempsey wouldn't pull a win against any of the modern ATGs, not to speak about modern superheavies.

:lol:

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, so perhaps I shouldn't post this, but I thought this was really funny.

[KTFO]

[quote]

If you think that then you either havnt seen footage of Dempsey or don't know what you are looking at.

Even if you have only seen the worst footage available you should be able to pick out more than that.



What evidence is there for either of these claims?



What evidence do you have that Dempsey was backed by the mob?



This was an era where fighters were thrown into the profesional ranks with no amateur fights and you somtimes got a draw for finishing a fight on your feet.

If you are going to judge a fighter only on the basis of his boxrec resume then at least try to understand the era.



Miske, Fulton, Brennan, Firpo, Gibbons and Sharkey were all big wins at the time.



I think you need to go back to the drawing bourd with Dempsey.

You clearly don't understand his style, era, opponents or even his career history.



Who are you? And why are you constantly talking to me? We have the same case here like in the Louis/Vitali thread. I actually don't give a sh**e what's your opinion on that topic cause you're on my ignore list already. Talk to the hand......:hand