How good do you think Moorer could have been?

[TheUnstoppable]

Hey guys, always been a fan of Moorer but as seems to be the case with many a boxer he seemed to let emotional and personal issues affect his professional career.

So I was wondering how much further you think he could have gone had he not lost to Foreman (what fights should he have taken, who would he win/lose against), and where would you rank him had he got there?

Also, what you think of him at present?

[cotto20]

Moorer must be one of the most under rated fighters ever, even this thread is under rateing, He Was Lightheavy world champion After something like 10 fight, made 8 defences, never lost at the weight, then moved up and become the first ever southpaw world champion beating all time great evander holeyfield, moorer was in some classic heavyweight battles against bert cooper (one of the most excting heavyweight fight of all time) frans botha and jirov. After loseing the heavyweight title he then went over to germany and beat axel schulz and become a 2 time heavyweight champion, also alex schulz had been robbed against foreman, but moorer went over to germany and beat him in his own backyard. How about a thread about how good and under rated double m was?

[TheUnstoppable]

Very true, though I don't like to think i'm under-rating (I personally think very highly of him), however given that this is a classic boxing forum I assumed people wouldnt need telling about his acheivements.

In regard to your points though, playing devils advocate, he does take a lot of stick for the quality of opponents he faced, and that, as stated, he never lived up to his potential (they key issue being that many thought he could have been utterly superb, whereas he seemed to eek out a career that we would say is "pretty damn good").

[cotto20]

Very true, though I don't like to think i'm under-rating (I personally think very highly of him), however given that this is a classic boxing forum I assumed people wouldnt need telling about his acheivements.

In regard to your points though, playing devils advocate, he does take a lot of stick for the quality of opponents he faced, and that, as stated, he never lived up to his potential (they key issue being that many thought he could have been utterly superb, whereas he seemed to eek out a career that we would say is "pretty damn good").
to behonest i dont think he could of done much more than he did, maybe a belt a cruserweight

[lefthook31]

Moorer was a good solid fighter. Very good technician who threw one of the most difficult combinations very well, which was the hook off of the jab and his jab was a good one. The problem with Moorer was that he always fought very flat footed, plodded, and tried to block punches rather than slip them. With his shaky chin and being in the heavyweight division that would have always spelled bad news for him, and probably why he was on the deck so much.
I think he did pretty well. He seemed to fight with a lot more intensity at LH than heavy, but I dont think he would have ever gotten past the better fighters like Lewis Tyson, Bowe, or the bigger punchers, because he was there to be hit. Technically he was better than most of the contenders of the mid to late 90's. I remember when they announced Tua Moorer, all I could say was why??
Today Moorer is getting pretty heavy. Last I saw of him, he looked pregnant. I hope he doesnt fight again.

[Sweet Pea]

Pay no mind to anything St. Boxing ever says on any topic. He's an autistic pre-teen who knows absolutely nothing about boxing aside from whatever article he's just looked up to respond to threads. He even had a second account where he did nothing but plageurize articles to pass himself off as some kind of historian. I'm surprised he didn't mention Fahrenheit 911 or Bowling for Columbine when you posted this thread.

[TheGreatA]

Moorer seemed to have a pretty solid chin at 175.

I reviewed his fight against Jirov as well as his LHW fights recently and you don't see too many fighters with as much confidence in their punching power. He could be losing every round big and pull off a KO win in the last four rounds.

Leslie Stewart threw everything he could come up with at Moorer yet Moorer kept plodding forward.

[Mantequilla]

Moorer could have done more at light heavy, but i think he overachieved if anything as a heavyweight.

[PowerPuncher]

I think he achieved everything he could in beating Holyfield for the HW title, thats the highlight of the sport and hes lucky he got a shot at someone he matched up well with and someone who wasnt at their best.

He should have beaten Foreman really and if he was in better shape could have stayed away from that right for the 12rounds. Or maybe he should have just faced powerpuffs and been a sacrifical lamb for Tyson. Moorer just doesnt match up well against big punchers at HW so he wouldnt stand much chance against

I suppose he could have had a better 'legacy' if he got the big fights at LHW and won a cruser belt but not many men can claim to be the Real HW Champ, Moorer is 1

[ChrisPontius]

I don't understand the thread title. It sounds asif he died in a car crash before reaching his prime, or something. He was as good as he could've been.

[lefthook31]

I don't understand the thread title. It sounds asif he died in a car crash before reaching his prime, or something. He was as good as he could've been.
I think the loss to Foreman would probably be the one black cloud that hangs over his career, and one I think he is very bitter about. It was supposed to be an easy payday and a voluntary defense, and he just made a mistake after winning the entire fight. Other than that I think your right, he was as good as he couldve been.

[cotto20]

Pay no mind to anything St. Boxing ever says on any topic. He's an autistic pre-teen who knows absolutely nothing about boxing aside from whatever article he's just looked up to respond to threads. He even had a second account where he did nothing but plageurize articles to pass himself off as some kind of historian. I'm surprised he didn't mention Fahrenheit 911 or Bowling for Columbine when you posted this thread.
thats rich comeing from you, you post nothing but crap, and always go back on what you say, you also always agree with the older posters as you know they know your a fraud who does not no nothing him self, so you dont like upseting them incase they expose you for the fraud that you are

[Russell]

If he was as good or close to as good as he was at LHW at CW we'd be talking about him as one of the better fighters of the 90's at the higher weight classes.

[ChrisPontius]

I think the loss to Foreman would probably be the one black cloud that hangs over his career, and one I think he is very bitter about. It was supposed to be an easy payday and a voluntary defense, and he just made a mistake after winning the entire fight. Other than that I think your right, he was as good as he couldve been.

Yeah well, the Foreman loss IS part of his career and he let it happen. The "he was winning every second until he got caught" thing has become a bit of an exaggeration for dramatic effect, too. I know you didn't phrase it like that, but i often hear it. Foreman was landing right hands all along. Not that many, but they were making impact. A little bit like Chavez vs Taylor.

But facts that Foreman never stopped a noteworthy opponent during his comeback fight (sorry, a coked up, 3 year inactive Cooney doesn't count), yet he knocked out Moorer with a single punch. Morrison outboxed (yes, outboxed) him. Schulz should've gotten the win over him. Stewart ran him to a draw in my opinion. But Moorer got knocked out.

[MRBILL]

Back in the early to mid-90s, Michael Moorer was maybe the best technically skilled heavyweight on the scene...... BUT! Moorer had TWO major problems.... 1.) Moorer was lazy and never truly found his peak heavyweight fighting weight.... I think 214 pounds was it......... 2.) Moorer wasn't physically durable at 210 + Pounds; his jaw was bad / so-so..

Now, yes, I know that Moorer was 214 for Holy in his '94 title winning fight, but it was too bad that Moorer never was able to maintain that weight...... Moorer was 222 pounds for Foreman six months later..........

I gringed hard when Moorer stated after kayoing Vass Jirov on cable back in 2004 and he was 247 pounds when he said his trainer worked his ass off in camp.... 247 was nowhere near his best weight, even at age 36.......

MR.BILL

[My2Sense]

Moorer seemed to have a pretty solid chin at 175.



I don't know about that...

His chin was only occasionally tested at the weight, and I remember Frankie Swindell having him in some rocky moments in their first fight. I'd say his punch resistance at 175 is a bit of an unsolved mystery.

[My2Sense]

Moorer could have done more at light heavy, but i think he overachieved if anything as a heavyweight.

Agreed.

He was being pounded by Bert Cooper until he whacked him out with a desperation combo, he got a very questionable (IMO) decision over Holyfield to become champ, he avoided Lennox Lewis like the plague, he was KO'd by Foreman in what was supposed to be a very winnable title defense, and he was destroyed by a Holyfield who was now well past his prime. In all, he was a decent but unspectacular HW contender/titlist at best.

His biggest problem at heavy is that he didn't really gain anything from the jump up in weight. He was basically just a slower, less fierce, less powerful, and possibly more fragile version of what he had been at LHW.

As a LHW, we'll never know how good he really was or could've been because he didn't get any of the big fights that were available at the time. It would've been nice to see him in a unification fight with either Virgil Hill or Prince Williams.

[dmille]

Moorer fought a bunch of nobodies and has-beens at 175. He didn't fight Hill, Harding, Andries, or Williams.

Moorer was a very good fighter, but an average heavyweight champion.

[Russell]

Agreed.

He was being pounded by Bert Cooper until he whacked him out with a desperation combo, he got a very questionable (IMO) decision over Holyfield to become champ, he avoided Lennox Lewis like the plague, he was KO'd by Foreman in what was supposed to be a very winnable title defense, and he was destroyed by a Holyfield who was now well past his prime. In all, he was a decent but unspectacular HW contender/titlist at best.

His biggest problem at heavy is that he didn't really gain anything from the jump up in weight. He was basically just a slower, less fierce, less powerful, and possibly more fragile version of what he had been at LHW.

As a LHW, we'll never know how good he really was or could've been because he didn't get any of the big fights that were available at the time. It would've been nice to see him in a unification fight with either Virgil Hill or Prince Williams.

Moorer was just coming off a serious surgery before Holyfield II, and still managed to rock Holyfield. Not too bad considering the circumstances, and the heart he showed picking his ass off the canvas 5 or 6 times.

[Boilermaker]

Moorer must be one of the most under rated fighters ever, even this thread is under rateing, He Was Lightheavy world champion After something like 10 fight, made 8 defences, never lost at the weight,

I am sorry, but he was never the World Light heavyweight title.

He held the WBO title when it was about as highly regarded as todays WBF title. He was one of the very limited exceptions and WBO champions who were actually considered good fighters, but he never beat a World light heavyweight Champion or anyone close to it, unless of course you consider Ramzi hassan as close to it. Ramzi really earned his right to challenge with Michael for the vacant title. He was coming of a loss on points to world champion virgil Hill, and also a tko loss Tony willis who had won the NABF light heavyweight title. I wonder if the NABF was considered more prestigous than the WBO title. From memory, i think it would ahve been considered quite a bit higher and certainly around for a lot longer. The title was created and given to michael moorer, but it was not a World title, just because it had a W in its name.




then moved up and become the first ever southpaw world champion beating all time great evander holeyfield, moorer was in some classic heavyweight battles against bert cooper (one of the most excting heavyweight fight of all time) frans botha and jirov. After loseing the heavyweight title he then went over to germany and beat axel schulz and become a 2 time heavyweight champion, also alex schulz had been robbed against foreman, but moorer went over to germany and beat him in his own backyard. How about a thread about how good and under rated double m was?

Again, this IBF title was not a world championship. The IBF stripped George Foreman of the world title when he refused to face his mandatory. They gave the title to the winner of the fight between Axel Shulz and Frans Botha. Well Sort of, they actually gave it to the loser of the fight, because Frans Botha tested positive to drugs. Shulz then fought Moorer and again lost. This title adds zero to Moorers legacy.

Saying that, his win over Holyfield was a good win, and he deserves a solid legacy just as much as guys like Braddock. While i think he did well to win his world heavyweight title, i also think he underachieved as a light heavy. It is a shame he didnt rule the world before he went up. All in all, i think that he did have a lot of unfulfilled potential and could have done better than he did, although i think his heavyweight career was about all it could have been.

[TheGreatA]

I don't know about that...

His chin was only occasionally tested at the weight, and I remember Frankie Swindell having him in some rocky moments in their first fight. I'd say his punch resistance at 175 is a bit of an unsolved mystery.

Moorer did a bit of a chicken dance in that fight but other than that he took punches well and he was really eating them also. His defense wasn't anything spectacular, he always took punishment.

Leslie Stewart won nearly every round until getting caught:

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[Beeston Brawler]

I think his mental fragilities were a serious downfall.

Pretty much what My2Sense said - added to the above point, sum up my views.

There isn't a lot on his 175lb resume, didn't fight Hill and others.

The decision against Holyfield was questionable, and he was lured into a trap by Foreman, falling hook, line and sinker. He let his ego dictate the way he fought, which was fatal - Atlas was telling him what to do and he kept ignoring him, to his downfall.

Stepping to the left vs Foreman = early night.

[red cobra]

Yeah well, the Foreman loss IS part of his career and he let it happen. The "he was winning every second until he got caught" thing has become a bit of an exaggeration for dramatic effect, too. I know you didn't phrase it like that, but i often hear it. Foreman was landing right hands all along. Not that many, but they were making impact. A little bit like Chavez vs Taylor.

But facts that Foreman never stopped a noteworthy opponent during his comeback fight (sorry, a coked up, 3 year inactive Cooney doesn't count), yet he knocked out Moorer with a single punch. Morrison outboxed (yes, outboxed) him. Schulz should've gotten the win over him. Stewart ran him to a draw in my opinion. But Moorer got knocked out.
As for Tommy Morrison, you can overlook all the flashy, spectacular knockouts he ever scored and point to that victory over Foreman..where he did indeed OUTBOX him, and say that it was without a doubt, not only his finest performance, but it elevated his overall status as a fighter, and made him something other than a one dimensional type...a very solid performance especially taking in consideration how Foreman came back to ko Moorer and become champion again.

[Russell]

Morrison and his team actually watched the Jimmy Young fight extensively to train against Foreman during camp.

[lefthook31]

Yeah well, the Foreman loss IS part of his career and he let it happen. The "he was winning every second until he got caught" thing has become a bit of an exaggeration for dramatic effect, too. I know you didn't phrase it like that, but i often hear it. Foreman was landing right hands all along. Not that many, but they were making impact. A little bit like Chavez vs Taylor.

But facts that Foreman never stopped a noteworthy opponent during his comeback fight (sorry, a coked up, 3 year inactive Cooney doesn't count), yet he knocked out Moorer with a single punch. Morrison outboxed (yes, outboxed) him. Schulz should've gotten the win over him. Stewart ran him to a draw in my opinion. But Moorer got knocked out.
I think its fair to say he was comfortably ahead. Taylor in contrast was under some heavier sustained punishment. George was landing a shot here and there, but Moorer was cruising. Moorer was getting lazy and cocky about as much as George was carrying out this master plan.

[lefthook31]

As for Tommy Morrison, you can overlook all the flashy, spectacular knockouts he ever scored and point to that victory over Foreman..where he did indeed OUTBOX him, and say that it was without a doubt, not only his finest performance, but it elevated his overall status as a fighter, and made him something other than a one dimensional type...a very solid performance especially taking in consideration how Foreman came back to ko Moorer and become champion again.
The reason Morrison could box like that is because Foreman is about as slow as a land tortoise. Reason you never saw him do it again.