After Watch the Taylor/Pavlik Countdown...

[Jose FM]

I have a few observations...
1. First, HBO has done a great job producing these shows, better opening credits. The shots were great, interviews, and personal profiles also great.
2. Erica Taylor is Smokin'! Oh man, i wanna get up in that!
3. Taylor-Pavlik II (first time in amatuers) is gonna be very diferent. Like Jack Lowe i hope that Taylor and Stewart are not banking on the first fight as to what will happen the next time.
4. Both Taylor and Pavlik look in great shape!
5. Winky beat Taylor.
6. A Dubya, doesnt mean Jermain won. Just ask his own hometown DJ's. Taylor has more experience and has been in bigGer fights but that doesnt mean JACK in the ring.
7. Taylor avoided Edison Miranda, and Pavlik destroyed him.
8. Miranda hits harder than Hopkins, Wright, Ouma, and Spinks, so how is Taylor gonna hurt Pavlik?
9. Emmanual Stewart is a great trainer, if Taylor wins, it has to go down as one of Stewart greatest wins....
10. I think the Poconos training facility is the best choice for Taylor, no distractions.
11. Experience is a great thing to have, but hunger is the best motivational tool! Pavlik is very hungry, and looks to be very focused for this fight.

Bottom line, as you could have guessed, im picking Pavlik via 10th round KO, or TKO.

[Thor]

Good points, don't agree with 5 and 7. Number 8 is an interesting point. Taylor needs to be very accurate and accumulate damage on Pavlik. Gonna be good regardless of the outcome.

[PacDbest]

Agree!!! except Taylor won't last 9 rds.

[Scar]

Damn, it's strange how everyone is giving Taylor no chance at all here.

[Alo2006]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion :yep

[jonesjrp4p1]

Damn, it's strange how everyone is giving Taylor no chance at all here.

i am.....taylor ud

[Sug3]

After watching i see emanuel steward taking taylor back to the basics and the fact that taylor's own hometown is against him,i think we will see the best of taylor in this fight,i'm still going with taylor by ud.

[PacDbest]

Damn, it's strange how everyone is giving Taylor no chance at all here.

His only chance is to box & run. Ala Floyd. But he don't have that skills either. Kelly knows how to cut the Ring & taylor will ran out of space to run.

[Jose FM]

I understand why people would think everyone is riding the "Pavlik Hype train" but the fact is that i think Pavlik is young & hungry, a better boxer & puncher, and Jermain doesnt seem to be taking instruction well.

Even Jermains former trainer said that he had hit a wall with Jermain, and thats why they brought in Stewart.

Taylor has too many flaws, and Pavlik will expose them come next week, both are in great shape and there should be no excuses as to why one lost.

Pavlik 10th round KO, or TKO

[Thor]

After watching i see emanuel steward taking taylor back to the basics and the fact that taylor's own hometown is against him,i think we will see the best of taylor in this fight,i'm still going with taylor by ud.

His hometown ain't against him, just fickle fans that are jumping off the bandwagon.

[brooklyn1550]

Great show - HBO does a great job producing these. Sometimes, the countdowns can be more exciting than the fight itself. However I don't believe that will be the case with this fight. Saturday couldn't come any sooner...

Pavlik TKO7 Taylor

[jsimps]

Great show... However, needed a little about Kelly's old school training. From Y-town.

[jsimps]

HBO needed to do a 24/7 piece.

[lillarry]

Taylor UD or Late TKO. Does anybody know when was the last time a Manny trained fighter has lost?

[jsimps]

Taylor UD or Late TKO. Does anybody know when was the last time a Manny trained fighter has lost?

September 29, 2007.

[Jose FM]

This makes no sense.
Ok, what i meant is that Miranda hits harder than all of Taylor comp. If Miranda didnt hurt Pavlik how is Taylor gonna hurt him.

[Jose FM]

Miranda hits harder than any opponent Taylor has faced since winning the title, and Miranda was not able to hurt Pavilik. If Miranda cant hurt Pavilik, then how can Taylor?
:lol: Haha, just wrote the same thing basically...

[brooklyn1550]

September 29, 2007.

Be patient:lol:

[Scar]

His only chance is to box & run. Ala Floyd. But he don't have that skills either. Kelly knows how to cut the Ring & taylor will ran out of space to run.

He doesn't need good movement(running, in your disctionary) for this fight anyway. Taylor can box and I'm pretty sure he'll do that with a bit of movement here and there, not to forget that he will land some serious punches on Pavlik that WILL hurt him at some point or stun him. Taylor needs his A game here, if he's going there to fight Pavlik the way he fought Spinks/Ouma then he loses and by KO, I doubt he'll take this fight lightly, it's one of the most dangerous fights he has been in. I'm expecting Taylor to box his way to a UD or late round TKO, I'm also expecting him to cut Pavlik. However, both of us know that Taylor WILL exchange at some point even if he's doing good boxing, it's just his style I guess and COULD lead to his downfall in this fight if he's not careful enough.

[Scar]

Ok, what i meant is that Miranda hits harder than all of Taylor comp. If Miranda didnt hurt Pavlik how is Taylor gonna hurt him.

Because Taylor isn't his "comp", he can bang hard when needed too and I'm sure he'll prove his power very soon.

[brooklyn1550]

What really caught my attention is hearing no fighter that has ever trained in the Pocono's with Emanuel Steward has lost. Very impressive record.

[jsimps]

I said this before, but I think Taylor is going into this fight with a chip on his shoulder and he feels he has something to prove. Which means, he won't listen to Manny, he won't box, and he'll want to slug to get respect = KO.

[Scar]

Pavlik isn't fighting Taylor's competition, he's fighting Taylor.

Exactly. :lol:

[Scar]

I said this before, but I think Taylor is going into this fight with a chip on his shoulder and he feels he has something to prove. Which means, he won't listen to Manny, he won't box, and he'll want to slug to get respect = KO.

That's what I'm afraid of and what's not making me too confident.

[PacDbest]

What really caught my attention is hearing no fighter that has ever trained in the Pocono's with Emanuel Steward has lost. Very impressive record.

There's always the first time.

Erik was Granite chin & unstopable but Pac stop him first.

[PacDbest]

He doesn't need good movement(running, in your disctionary) for this fight anyway. Taylor can box and I'm pretty sure he'll do that with a bit of movement here and there, not to forget that he will land some serious punches on Pavlik that WILL hurt him at some point or stun him. Taylor needs his A game here, if he's going there to fight Pavlik the way he fought Spinks/Ouma then he loses and by KO, I doubt he'll take this fight lightly, it's one of the most dangerous fights he has been in. I'm expecting Taylor to box his way to a UD or late round TKO, I'm also expecting him to cut Pavlik. However, both of us know that Taylor WILL exchange at some point even if he's doing good boxing, it's just his style I guess and COULD lead to his downfall in this fight if he's not careful enough.

Once Taylor Got hit Flush by Pavlik Killer punch, It will rattle him & will forgot everything Steward Teach him.

[jsimps]

Pavlik will finish sparring today (Sunday). He will leave for AC on Wed. He has a look of determination. God Speed!!!

[Carlos Primera]

Taylor UD or Late TKO. Does anybody know when was the last time a Manny trained fighter has lost?
:think i think it was when vivian harris got ktfo by maussa. i'm not sure though.

[Scar]

Once Taylor Got hit Flush by Pavlik Killer punch, It will rattle him & will forgot everything Steward Teach him.

Another thing underrated, obviously, Taylor's chin. I doubt 1 punch will totally hurt and wobble Taylor, Pavlik will have to land A LOT of those to start hurting Taylor in my opinion and I doubt Taylor will stand there and allow him to. Taylor has the speed advantage here too, so expect the first big punch to come from Taylor.

[jsimps]

Another thing underrated, obviously, Taylor's chin. I doubt 1 punch will totally hurt and wobble Taylor, Pavlik will have to land A LOT of those to start hurting Taylor in my opinion and I doubt Taylor will stand there and allow him to. Taylor has the speed advantage here too, so expect the first big punch to come from Taylor.

Pavlik didn't knock out Zertuche nor Miranda with just one punch. He sets up his shots rather well.

[Scar]

Pavlik didn't knock out Zertuche nor Miranda with just one punch. He sets up his shots rather well.

That's what I'm clearly hinting at in my post, Pavlik needs to land A LOT of his punches to finally hurt Taylor, one punch won't totally wobble/brutally hurt Taylor like PacDBest is suggesting.

[PacDbest]

That's what I'm clearly hinting at in my post, Pavlik needs to land A LOT of his punches to finally hurt Taylor, one punch won't totally wobble/brutally hurt Taylor like PacDBest is suggesting.

I didn't say it will end by one punch KO. I said once Taylor Feel Pavlik's Power, he'll lose his heart & will breakdown & eventually will give up.

[Scar]

I didn't say it will end by one punch KO. I said once Taylor Feel Pavlik's Power, he'll lose his heart & will breakdown & eventually will give up.

We'll see about that, if Taylor is the type to breakdown then he wouldn't have had the patience to beat someone like Hopkins twice. We'll see what will happen and I doubt Pavlik's power will be too much for Taylor to handle either.

[lillarry]

What really caught my attention is hearing no fighter that has ever trained in the Pocono's with Emanuel Steward has lost. Very impressive record.

and after the 29th it will stay that way:yep

[Thor]

I didn't say it will end by one punch KO. I said once Taylor Feel Pavlik's Power, he'll lose his heart & will breakdown & eventually will give up.

Your anticipation of Countdown to Pacquiao and Barrera II after the Taylor victory has clouded your judgement.

[Scar]

Your anticipation of Countdown to Pacquiao and Barrera II after the Taylor victory has clouded your judgement.

Clearly.

[lillarry]

Ok, what i meant is that Miranda hits harder than all of Taylor comp. If Miranda didnt hurt Pavlik how is Taylor gonna hurt him.

He doesnt have to hurt him to outpoint him.

[madjabber]

Taylor UD

[bachatu]

I object to item #8. Necessarily Miranda doesn't hit harder than Taylor. There is no evidence of this. In addition, I believe Miranda never really hit Pavlik flush because he was fighting going back most of the time and on the ropes. In addition, he seemed to be drained from even before the bell ran, miranda looked weak or like he killed himself to make weight...he looked drained.
Im not sure if you guys saw the fight of Pavlik vs Zertuche. But Zertuche rocked pavlik in the beginning of the fight...Pavlik did look slightly wobbled a couple times but it seemed it was more from not being warmed up properly. Yes Pavlik has a chance, but at the same time, I think people are counting out Taylor way too quick. He has proven himself where as Pavlik has by what, beating Miranda? Let Pavlik beat B-Hop twice and Winky (at least by the score cards) and then I would be a bit more convinced.
In the meanwhile, I pull for Taylor winning by close split decision or K.O.... My biggest fear of Taylor coming into this fight is his lack of following his corners instructions. Emmanual Steward knows what his fighter needs to do to win, but he cant fight for hiim... Taylor needs to listen!

And by the way - even if Taylor ducked Miranda... i believe Taylor would ktfo Miranda. I dont think he ducked Miranda, I think he chose to fight more well known fighters: B-Hop, Winky, Kasim, Spinks. All of these guys he fought had been champions at one point in their careers

[perfume]

Power is power but chins are another story. Taylor never been down in the pro's or amateurs but Pavlik been down THREE times so who chin is better.

Pavlik in my opinion will be a tough fight for Taylor but I think Taylor has fought the better comp...I don't think Pavlik could beat Hopkins twice or draw with Wright..



Hell, I think Stewart other middleweight Andy Lee can beat Pavlik....by KO!

[brooklyn1550]

Power is power but chins are another story. Taylor never been down in the pro's or amateurs but Pavlik been down THREE times so who chin is better.

Pavlik in my opinion will be a tough fight for Taylor but I think Taylor has fought the better comp...I don't think Pavlik could beat Hopkins twice or draw with Wright..



Hell, I think Stewart other middleweight Andy Lee can beat Pavlik....by KO!

You can't always go with the Fighter A, Fighter B, and Fighter C equation. And saying Andy Lee KO's Kelly Pavlik is really pushing it. Lee is good, but still very untested and not yet in his prime.

[bachatu]

Power is power but chins are another story. Taylor never been down in the pro's or amateurs but Pavlik been down THREE times so who chin is better.

Pavlik in my opinion will be a tough fight for Taylor but I think Taylor has fought the better comp...I don't think Pavlik could beat Hopkins twice or draw with Wright..



Hell, I think Stewart other middleweight Andy Lee can beat Pavlik....by KO!

My point exactly.

[perfume]

And saying Andy Lee KO's Kelly Pavlik is really pushing it. Lee is good, but still very untested and not yet in his prime.


And Pavlik has been tested how?!?!?!

Pavlik is a puncher-boxer while Lee is a boxer-puncher...I will always go with the boxer-puncher first, what if the guy you hit doesn't go anywhere, you'll need a plan B..

Lee never been down either.

[o_money]

man taylor is gonna get knocked the fuck out. I you can't be trying to get a guy back to basics or work on his motivation before a big fight. You have to be proactive and get rid of these things bofore the little fights so that when the big fights come along you've already got that shit sorted.

Sun Tzu said it best "Win first, Fight later". When you have to make big changes to your preparation before a fight you've already lost.

[o_money]

Taylor UD or Late TKO. Does anybody know when was the last time a Manny trained fighter has lost?

I have a far better question....does anyone remember the last time a guy was badly being called out by his own trainer for lack of focus and motivation? Cause I have never seen a guy get dogged the way emanuel was calling him out in the spinks fight. And he was still shit talking him in the HBO special. I mean not overretly but the comments about him only focusing for two hours a day. you don't here that shit coming from trainers very often.

[o_money]

I will add this to my previous point. This fight is taylor's to lose. He has the speed, power, athletism and petigree to win this fight. But if he's got no fight left in him then he's fucked. Because kelly is not puffed up WW.

I will also add this. I will not be suprized if kelly get hurt by taylor in this fight. I know that a lot of people on here have been talking about the way he took miranda's punches as evidence that he has a great chin. I don't feel that that fight told the whole story because 1) miranda looked wieght dained and thus didn't look like he had his usual sting, 2) Kelly saw all the punches that hit him coming in that fight and 3) miranda was constantly on the back foot.

I think that jermaine has the ability to fight going backwards. will come in in-shape and has the ability to hit pavlik with shots that he doesn see coming. so I wouldn;t be suprised to see him get hurt.


But I'm still predicting a jermaine lose dude to an accumulation of bad habbit outside of the ring that are just not going to be solved by fight time.

[RUSKULL]

I object to item #8. Necessarily Miranda doesn't hit harder than Taylor. There is no evidence of this. In addition, I believe Miranda never really hit Pavlik flush because he was fighting going back most of the time and on the ropes. In addition, he seemed to be drained from even before the bell ran, miranda looked weak or like he killed himself to make weight...he looked drained.
Im not sure if you guys saw the fight of Pavlik vs Zertuche. But Zertuche rocked pavlik in the beginning of the fight...Pavlik did look slightly wobbled a couple times but it seemed it was more from not being warmed up properly. Yes Pavlik has a chance, but at the same time, I think people are counting out Taylor way too quick. He has proven himself where as Pavlik has by what, beating Miranda? Let Pavlik beat B-Hop twice and Winky (at least by the score cards) and then I would be a bit more convinced.
In the meanwhile, I pull for Taylor winning by close split decision or K.O.... My biggest fear of Taylor coming into this fight is his lack of following his corners instructions. Emmanual Steward knows what his fighter needs to do to win, but he cant fight for hiim... Taylor needs to listen!

And by the way - even if Taylor ducked Miranda... i believe Taylor would ktfo Miranda. I dont think he ducked Miranda, I think he chose to fight more well known fighters: B-Hop, Winky, Kasim, Spinks. All of these guys he fought had been champions at one point in their careers

Miranda did hit Pavlik flush more than once during their fight.

[Amsterdam]

We'll see about that, if Taylor is the type to breakdown then he wouldn't have had the patience to beat someone like Hopkins twice. We'll see what will happen and I doubt Pavlik's power will be too much for Taylor to handle either.

Hopkins does not have the style to bother Taylor though, Pavlik does. Obviously Hopkins is a level above, but this no comparison for 'mentality breakdowns' when Hopkins doesn't have what would particularly 'bug' Taylor, which in this case, it is constant pressure.

[Sug3]

If miranda's wild punches could bust pavlik up i can see taylor's accuracy along with his handspeed could be too much for pavlik,all pavlik has over taylor is probaly strength and punching power.

This fight could end up looking like mayweather vs corrales,taylor has a very good defense and pavlik is there to be hit and he's never faced anybody in his career that has the skills that taylor has.

I think this could be a easy fight for taylor,because how many times we seen a pressure fighter who has devastating punching power get exposed by a better overall fighter with greater skills,i question that win against a weight drained miranda,but pavlik won,but taylor is no miranda.

[achillesthegreat]

Taylor CAN win but only if he has suddenly decided to do what he hasn't done in his past 5 fights i.e. listen to Steward, clean up his horrible technical flaws etc

Kelly is simple - what you see, is what you get. He is big, strong, powerful, tenacious and brutal. That is what you get for 12 rounds, no fancy dressing, just in your face.

Kelly appears to train hard. He runs the bleachers, hills etc Not sure on his gym work but he does some caveman shit like sledgehammers, flipping tires etc

I'm pumped for this fight. Kelly of Miranda should beat Taylor of Spinks. Kelly potential is more maxed out than Taylors though. Taylor has spent an entire career not performing like his ability allows him to. Pavlik knows what he has and uses it.

[bigeddie27]

Miranda hits harder than any opponent Taylor has faced since winning the title, and Miranda was not able to hurt Pavilik. If Miranda cant hurt Pavilik, then how can Taylor?

uh, its called miranda was not able to tee off on him like miranda did with his other oppenents. pavlik backed him up and gave him no room, that was mirandas weakness. miranda could not set up his shots, he was too worried about having no room and getting blasted by pavlik. Taylor will be a different story however, and i believe will knock pavlik out.

[jsimps]

If miranda's wild punches could bust pavlik up i can see taylor's accuracy along with his handspeed could be too much for pavlik,all pavlik has over taylor is probaly strength and punching power.

This fight could end up looking like mayweather vs corrales,taylor has a very good defense and pavlik is there to be hit and he's never faced anybody in his career that has the skills that taylor has.

I think this could be a easy fight for taylor,because how many times we seen a pressure fighter who has devastating punching power get exposed by a better overall fighter with greater skills,i question that win against a weight drained miranda,but pavlik won,but taylor is no miranda.

1) First of all, Miranda did land flush and he snapped Kelly's head back. However, he still kept coming forward and Miranda only landed 22%.
2) Miranda was unable to generate power, because HE WAS BEING PUSHED BACKWARDS. Pavlik is a bigger MW than Miranda... The weight excuse is BS.
3) Pavlik had a bloody nose, his eyes were wide-open. Did you see the fight? I agree Pavlik does not have the resume of Taylor, but as I said before, neither did Taylor before B-Hop.
4) Taylor is going into this fight with a chip on his shoulder. He feels he needs to take Pavlik's head off. Big mistake.. Pavlik's kind of fight. He looked hungry. Taylor does not. Pavlik = KO = rd7. Same as Miranda.

[lefthook31]

People have the same expectations of Pavlik as they did with Miranda, Trinidad and Tyson during his comeback. They see a big puncher mowing over his compeititon.
They're blinded by the fact that the best boxer he has faced is probably Bronco McKart, who is a C level boxer at best. Pavlik looks like a giant killer, but for the most part, these type of blue collar fighters that come straight forward and are conditioned well, get taken apart by the top level guys. Taylor certainly possesses those type of skills, but does he have the heart to hang in there with a gutsy guy who isnt going to lay down? My gut says yes, and he will earn some respect by grinding out an exciting fight.

[Orishaman]

I have a few observations...
1. First, HBO has done a great job producing these shows, better opening credits. The shots were great, interviews, and personal profiles also great.-
HBO single han ded has created the image of Jermain Taylor, the made him the arren to the MW thrown way before he deserved it...but they created the excitement around him....that JT will have to answer on this fight....he can treat Pavlik like he treated Kassim or he will be KO early in the fight...JT is not confortable with Emanuel, he recented Dibella forcing him to chamge trainers..regardless of what anybody says...
2. Erica Taylor is Smokin'! Oh man, i wanna get up in that!

Back when HBO was building the image of JT, Erica was interview in several times, and she is one hot Mama...I ride that also...given the chance!!!!
3. Taylor-Pavlik II (first time in amatuers) is gonna be very diferent. Like Jack Lowe i hope that Taylor and Stewart are not banking on the first fight as to what will happen the next time.
Let me just say this....in similar fashion with Cotto who style alwasy been a pro style, lost to a couple of fighters that have less skills and boxingtools that Cotto, yet the amateurs style allowed them to beat Cotto...JT I always said has always fought in an amateur style and I not saying this to put him down, since obvioulsy he has hang with the best on his division with that style...but with Pavlik that style will not work, since Pavlik like Cotto have had a pro style....I can see Pavlik softening JT and setting the bed for a KO by accumulation of punches in the 11th or 12th....
4. Both Taylor and Pavlik look in great shape!

One thing I can say with cetainty is that Taylor is always in great shape and Pavlik in the past 2 yearsor so has stepped up on his training regimen.
5. Winky beat Taylor.

Nope, he didn't, he needed to close the show and he didn't....after all is a mchampionship fight and JT is the champion not WW...remeber that the burden of proof was on WW not JT....
6. A Dubya, doesnt mean Jermain won. Just ask his own hometown DJ's. Taylor has more experience and has been in bigGer fights but that doesnt mean JACK in the ring.

??????????and.....
7. Taylor avoided Edison Miranda, and Pavlik destroyed him.

Miranda was a great test for Pavlik, and in allhonesty I taught Miranda would destryed him, instead it was the other way around...now Pavlik show anincredible chin eating Miranda's shoots....I like his chin on this fight...as for Taylor avoiding Miranda...well...I beleive it was allmental on JT's part....
8. Miranda hits harder than Hopkins, Wright, Ouma, and Spinks, so how is Taylor gonna hurt Pavlik?

See previous....

9. Emmanual Stewart is a great trainer, if Taylor wins, it has to go down as one of Stewart greatest wins....

Again, the chemistry needed for fighter trainer relationship is not here, JT doesn't beleive or have not bought into Emanuel's philosophy, he is recentfull and this will come clear in the late rounds of this fight when JT see the title slipping away.......

10. I think the Poconos training facility is the best choice for Taylor, no distractions.

We will see......his distractions are inside his head not on the exterior....


11. Experience is a great thing to have, but hunger is the best motivational tool! Pavlik is very hungry, and looks to be very focused for this fight.

One thing we can forget even thou JT didn;t clearly won the fights agaisnt BHop nor WW, and faded agaist Kssin, he still fought 48 close rounds with the best of the best at 160...regardless of the decision on each, the fight were close, very close....and that is JT's wild card on this fight...but Pavlik has the power on both hands and the chin and wilingness to do waht he need to do...

Bottom line, as you could have guessed, im picking Pavlik via 10th round KO, or TKO.

see my reply on red letters

[PacDbest]

If miranda's wild punches could bust pavlik up i can see taylor's accuracy along with his handspeed could be too much for pavlik,all pavlik has over taylor is probaly strength and punching power.

This fight could end up looking like mayweather vs corrales,taylor has a very good defense and pavlik is there to be hit and he's never faced anybody in his career that has the skills that taylor has.

I think this could be a easy fight for taylor,because how many times we seen a pressure fighter who has devastating punching power get exposed by a better overall fighter with greater skills,i question that win against a weight drained miranda,but pavlik won,but taylor is no miranda.

Taylor has speed, but he has it in short burst only, Just like Judah. They're not Pac relentless speed & PBF cat-like speed. I don't know what Skills Taylor has other than his Jab. He can't even win Clearly against smaller & feather fisted Spinks.

Pavlik is not as fast as Taylor but he is as relentless as Pac & Cotto. He goes for the kill when he smells blood. Pavlik also has a longer arms & will exploit any Taylor mistakes.

Here's how I see the fight. Pavlik will be the one coming forward, Taylor backing up Flipping his Jab with occasional right. Kelly makes the Jab miss then counter strt Right, BOOM!!! Wobbled Taylor... Kelly goes for the Kill... Taylor on the ropes... BOOM!! Another srt Right followed by Left Hook... Taylor Down... Game Over!!!

[bigeddie27]

man taylor is gonna get knocked the fuck out. I you can't be trying to get a guy back to basics or work on his motivation before a big fight. You have to be proactive and get rid of these things bofore the little fights so that when the big fights come along you've already got that shit sorted.

Sun Tzu said it best "Win first, Fight later". When you have to make big changes to your preparation before a fight you've already lost.

omoney - i believe that quote by sun tzu is basically saying this: fight only when you absolutely have to, try to win without fighting first. have you even read the book 'the art of war'?

[bigeddie27]

Another thing underrated, obviously, Taylor's chin. I doubt 1 punch will totally hurt and wobble Taylor, Pavlik will have to land A LOT of those to start hurting Taylor in my opinion and I doubt Taylor will stand there and allow him to. Taylor has the speed advantage here too, so expect the first big punch to come from Taylor.

the funny thing about these pavlik nuthuggers scar is that they think pavlik wont get any return fire and not be rattled himself. bunch of taylor haters in here. taylor by ko

[Zakman]

Another thing underrated, obviously, Taylor's chin. I doubt 1 punch will totally hurt and wobble Taylor, Pavlik will have to land A LOT of those to start hurting Taylor in my opinion and I doubt Taylor will stand there and allow him to. Taylor has the speed advantage here too, so expect the first big punch to come from Taylor.

UNDER-rated?? Hah - there is a REASON he has been facing light-hitting fighters from lower weight classes since Hopkins rocked him - and Hopkins wasn't exactly the Earnie Shavers of middleweights, either!

Pavlik is gonna DESTROY this HBO hype job, and indeed show what many of us suspect - Taylor doesn't take a hard MIDDLEweight punch. Hell, he seems to have a bit of trouble with light-hitting WELTERweights!:lol:

[Orishaman]

I have to agree that thrughout JT's career he has been facing lite hitting opponents..that;s a fact...yet he took BHop's best.....which is the stronger puncher he has face in the last 5 fights..which is not saying a lot but BHop had enough pop to KD Tarver...

[bigeddie27]

UNDER-rated?? Hah - there is a REASON he has been facing light-hitting fighters from lower weight classes since Hopkins rocked him - and Hopkins wasn't exactly the Earnie Shavers of middleweights, either!

Pavlik is gonna DESTROY this HBO hype job, and indeed show what many of us suspect - Taylor doesn't take a hard MIDDLEweight punch. Hell, he seems to have a bit of trouble with light-hitting WELTERweights!:lol:
wow, so pavliks straight right hand is better than hopkins? who exactly has pavlik beaten with his straight right? Let me tell you hopkins beat with his:

tito - undefeated top 5 pound for pound at time
glenn johnson - undefeated middleweight (if you even watched hopkins at this point)
winky wright - top ten pound for pound
tarver - undisputed light heavy champion of the world who just took out roy

you do know that with age power is the last thing to go right? and that hopkins ages really well? so dont give me that 'hopkins was old shit' either. hopkins still has a HARD MIDDLE WEIGHT PUNCH that TAYLOR TOOK EXTREMLY WELL. hater

[Thor]

UNDER-rated?? Hah - there is a REASON he has been facing light-hitting fighters from lower weight classes since Hopkins rocked him - and Hopkins wasn't exactly the Earnie Shavers of middleweights, either!

Pavlik is gonna DESTROY this HBO hype job, and indeed show what many of us suspect - Taylor doesn't take a hard MIDDLEweight punch. Hell, he seems to have a bit of trouble with light-hitting WELTERweights!:lol:

Will you stop cutting and pasting the one argument you have when talking about Taylor? Hope you aren't too crushed when you have to kiss that avatar goodbye.

[bigeddie27]

Will you stop cutting and pasting the one argument you have when talking about Taylor? Hope you aren't too crushed when you have to kiss that avatar goodbye.

lol, that is funny thor. the guy cant even think up his own arguments, he has to copy and paste his own prolly cause he cant remember his own rubbish.

[swedeone]

Taylor UD or Late TKO. Does anybody know when was the last time a Manny trained fighter has lost?



He'll start that streak next Saturday. Manny can't stop the inevitable...

Pavlik by TKO, round 8 :yep

[perfume]

Chins are chins and no one can say that Taylor has faced all light-hitter throughtout his career. Pavlik has been down THREE times as a pro..



Number of Times down:

Pavlik: 3
Taylor: 0

It's simple mathmatics ladies and gentlemen.

[bigeddie27]

Chins are chins and no one can say that Taylor has faced all light-hitter throughtout his career. Pavlik has been down THREE times as a pro..



Number of Times down:

Pavlik: 3
Taylor: 0

It's simple mathmatics ladies and gentlemen.

if you are counting against bronco Mckart please dont. that was a bullshit knockdown and shouldnt have been one. i remember watchgin that fight on VS and saying how much bs it was.

[perfume]

if you are counting against bronco Mckart please dont. that was a bullshit knockdown and shouldnt have been one. i remember watchgin that fight on VS and saying how much bs it was.

Hey, he's a boxers. He's responsible for not being in a position to get a bs knockdown...But Zuniga and Berburch DROPPED him, and those were no BS knockdowns either.


Matter of fact, Zuniga dropped him in the first round!!!

[o_money]

omoney - i believe that quote by sun tzu is basically saying this: fight only when you absolutely have to, try to win without fighting first. have you even read the book 'the art of war'?
Yes I have read the art of War. Have you? And how might I ask you do you win without fighting. By making yourself unbeatable, so that no one will fight you because they have no hope of winning. And how do you make yourself unbeatable? By being so prepared for a fight that if anyone ever fought you they would have no hope of winning (i.e. they will have lost before the fight even begins....hence "win first fight later") Believe me that quote is 100% about preparation. Its about being so well prepared for a fight that you've already won before you even step into the ring. It most certainly is not about only fighting when you have to.

Like in the DLH PBf build up when PBF was talking about his preparation, he said "The hard work has already been done. He's already beat. All we have to do now is fight." This is the kinda shit that Sun Tzu is talking about.

It certainly is not about avoiding a fight.

[bigeddie27]

Yes I have read the art of War. Have you? And how might I ask you do you win without fighting. By making yourself unbeatable, so that no one will fight you because they have no hope of winning. And how do you make yourself unbeatable? By being so prepared for a fight that if anyone ever fought you they would have no hope of winning (i.e. they will have lost before the fight even begins....hence "win first fight later") Believe me that quote is 100% about preparation. Its about being so well prepared for a fight that you've already won before you even step into the ring. It most certainly is not about only fighting when you have to.

Like in the DLH PBf build up when PBF was talking about his preparation, he said "The hard work has already been done. He's already beat. All we have to do now is fight." This is the kinda shit that Sun Tzu is talking about.

It certainly is not about avoiding a fight.
'how do you win without fighting?' - simple - you see in sun tszu art of war the actual quote goes like this
Therefore One hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the most skillful. Seizing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful. War is of vital importance to the state and should not be engaged carelessly
read carefully the second sentence. siezing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful. in other words - this would apply to a fighter who would give his most dangerous opponent a disease so he pulls out and never fights again so the fighter would win the belt without actually fighting. you are pretty dumb dude. boxing is not 'war' as hopkins likes to call it. true war has no rules, boxing does.

[bigeddie27]

Hey, he's a boxers. He's responsible for not being in a position to get a bs knockdown...But Zuniga and Berburch DROPPED him, and those were no BS knockdowns either.


Matter of fact, Zuniga dropped him in the first round!!!

now those i consider knockdowns, when they actually DROP and HURT him.

[brooklyn1550]

12. The corn in the shit of Jack Presscot has more boxing knowledge than you have now, have ever had, or will ever have, and you are dead ass wrong. Taylor, via brutal KO, as Pavlik is not afraid of a toe to toe war like B-Hop.

Brutal KO? We'll see

[El Bombasto]

Taylor UD or Late TKO. Does anybody know when was the last time a Manny trained fighter has lost?

i think manny was lewis's trainer when he got starched by mccall, but i'm sure some of his fighters have lost since then. manny trains a lot of boxers, we only hear about the high profile ones.

[o_money]

'how do you win without fighting?' - simple - you see in sun tszu art of war the actual quote goes like this
Therefore One hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the most skillful. Seizing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful. War is of vital importance to the state and should not be engaged carelessly
read carefully the second sentence. siezing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful. in other words - this would apply to a fighter who would give his most dangerous opponent a disease so he pulls out and never fights again so the fighter would win the belt without actually fighting. you are pretty dumb dude. boxing is not 'war' as hopkins likes to call it. true war has no rules, boxing does.
Sorry, the quote I'm talking about is actually from the the "Book of the Samurai" by Yamamoto Tsunetomo. And the passage goes like this:

The phrase, ''Win first, fight later, '' can be summed up in the two words, "Win beforehand." The resourcefulness of times of peace is the military preparation for times of war.

So ya its not from the Art of War. Sorry my bad. but as I recall the whole "make yourself unbeatable" theme that is central here is one of the themes in the art of war.

But why did you think I was talking about the quote you quoted cause clearly thats a different idea all together?

[El Bombasto]

12. The corn in the shit of Jack Presscot has more boxing knowledge than you have now, have ever had, or will ever have, and you are dead ass wrong. Taylor, via brutal KO, as Pavlik is not afraid of a toe to toe war like B-Hop.

i would say you just staked your reputation on that statement, but.............what reputation?

[Relentless]

A reputation above someone who is a fan of the WWF like your pathetic self.

speaking of wwf, how was that iron sheik video you bought?

[bachatu]

Anything can happen in a fight and circumstances can be different depending on who fights who...styles make fights and can brake some or make some fighters. However, taking facts in to the picture... I think Taylor has been more successful and has proven more at this point in his career. People are counting out Taylor by KO without taking into account that he has defeated or gone even with some of the ones who are considered to be the best in boxing: Benard Hopkins & Winky Wright.

Ok - We know Pavlik has KO'd guys in an impressive and exciting fashion--but this has been against who? A rated or elite? mmm no. Miranda got his reputation for beating two known guys from the U.S. Before that, he got his impressive K.O record from fighting in Colombia and south america, which we all have seen before, colombians coming out with 22 - 0 20 ko record. In addition to this, we all know that Miranda had been knocked down before a couple of times, so his chin was never considered to be granite or iron. Taylor will be the most physical, strongest and toughest fighter Pavlik has ever faced. How will he do? We don't know until Sept. 29th.

Personally, I think the fight will be competitive, but I think Pavlik is not ready for Taylor at this point in his career. Taylor is at another level and you will see that come September 29th.

[bigeddie27]

Sorry, the quote I'm talking about is actually from the the "Book of the Samurai" by Yamamoto Tsunetomo. And the passage goes like this:

The phrase, ''Win first, fight later, '' can be summed up in the two words, "Win beforehand." The resourcefulness of times of peace is the military preparation for times of war.

So ya its not from the Art of War. Sorry my bad. but as I recall the whole "make yourself unbeatable" theme that is central here is one of the themes in the art of war.

But why did you think I was talking about the quote you quoted cause clearly thats a different idea all together?

no the quote from my last post was from 'the art of war' in reference to the 'win first, fight later' from the book. when sun tzu wrote 'win first, fight later' he was referring to battling a country (oppenent, etc..) basically saying that if you can take over somewhere and impose your will and authority without actually killing anyone or fighting - then you save the fighting for later in which you will have more resources to fight with. Kind of like how Julius Ceaser took over egypt without fighting anyne. He just scared the population into thinking there would be a massacre when really he did not have the manpower to take it over by force. He just forged an alliance with Cleopatra and won over the territory that way. that gave him power because he now owned egypt and still had his army.

[Toopretty]

no the quote from my last post was from 'the art of war' in reference to the 'win first, fight later' from the book. when sun tzu wrote 'win first, fight later' he was referring to battling a country (oppenent, etc..) basically saying that if you can take over somewhere and impose your will and authority without actually killing anyone or fighting - then you save the fighting for later in which you will have more resources to fight with. Kind of like how Julius Ceaser took over egypt without fighting anyne. He just scared the population into thinking there would be a massacre when really he did not have the manpower to take it over by force. He just forged an alliance with Cleopatra and won over the territory that way. that gave him power because he now owned egypt and still had his army.

I am a big on the ancient China culture and the story of the three kingdoms. Its a nerdy guilty pleasure of mine. Warfare is my thing.

[Antwuan Maxx]

If miranda's wild punches could bust pavlik up i can see taylor's accuracy along with his handspeed could be too much for pavlik,all pavlik has over taylor is probaly strength and punching power.

This fight could end up looking like mayweather vs corrales,taylor has a very good defense and pavlik is there to be hit and he's never faced anybody in his career that has the skills that taylor has.

I think this could be a easy fight for taylor,because how many times we seen a pressure fighter who has devastating punching power get exposed by a better overall fighter with greater skills,i question that win against a weight drained miranda,but pavlik won,but taylor is no miranda.

:?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

:lol:

[o_money]

no the quote from my last post was from 'the art of war' in reference to the 'win first, fight later' from the book. when sun tzu wrote 'win first, fight later' he was referring to battling a country (oppenent, etc..) basically saying that if you can take over somewhere and impose your will and authority without actually killing anyone or fighting - then you save the fighting for later in which you will have more resources to fight with. Kind of like how Julius Ceaser took over egypt without fighting anyne. He just scared the population into thinking there would be a massacre when really he did not have the manpower to take it over by force. He just forged an alliance with Cleopatra and won over the territory that way. that gave him power because he now owned egypt and still had his army.

thanks for explaining that one I was wondering why we were getting crossed up there.

[o_money]

no the quote from my last post was from 'the art of war' in reference to the 'win first, fight later' from the book. when sun tzu wrote 'win first, fight later' he was referring to battling a country (oppenent, etc..) basically saying that if you can take over somewhere and impose your will and authority without actually killing anyone or fighting - then you save the fighting for later in which you will have more resources to fight with. Kind of like how Julius Ceaser took over egypt without fighting anyne. He just scared the population into thinking there would be a massacre when really he did not have the manpower to take it over by force. He just forged an alliance with Cleopatra and won over the territory that way. that gave him power because he now owned egypt and still had his army.
this would be the Sun Tzu version of what I was thinking of "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win." and if i recall this was the part where he was talking about preparation.

[pipe wrenched]

i think taylor has some pop to his punches. not as much as kelly, but he can throw much harder than many are giving him credit for. taylor is the champ. like him or not, and he hung in with 2 hofers. whether u think he lost or won, the fights were close. i give him a good chance to win, but at the same time think if pavlik is for real, and fights like he did against pantera i think he will prevail, but i am not counting jt out.

Very well put, JT is the Und. MW Champ and deserves respect. But my gut and being a fan of Pavlik, I say Pavlik KO 7.

[the_what]

Both arent very skilled fighters. But I expect somebody to get KOed.

[TheGrimReaper]

I think the bottom line is taylor does not have the power to hurt kelly, but pavlik can hurt jermain

[o_money]

i know. this is an easy, and later will be called and over-rated win for the current middleweight champion.

yeah i'm picking pavlik but I'll say that if he gets beat down bad there will be soo many people with egg on their face.....me included.

[perfume]

Why does everbody say that Pavlik will KO Taylor when Taylor has never been down....NEVER!!!!


Now Pav going down...that another story. He took 3 trips to the canvas by 3 seperate journeymen!!!

[bachatu]

Yep, I think when Taylor wins, people will then not give credit and then say Pavlik was still green and never a proven guy anyways. Just like everyone fell off the Miranda bandwagon.

[Stezzie]

Yep, I think when Taylor wins, people will then not give credit and then say Pavlik was still green and never a proven guy anyways. Just like everyone fell off the Miranda bandwagon.

It happens like that every time...Pavlik will be a hype job. People will argue that, that is the reason why they call him the "ghost"

[o_money]

Yep, I think when Taylor wins, people will then not give credit and then say Pavlik was still green and never a proven guy anyways. Just like everyone fell off the Miranda bandwagon.

maybe but we'll also all look like idiots so we'll have to lash somehow. (only half kinding here).

[Alo2006]

Yep, I think when Taylor wins, people will then not give credit and then say Pavlik was still green and never a proven guy anyways. Just like everyone fell off the Miranda bandwagon.


Exactly :-(

[PacDbest]

It happens like that every time...Pavlik will be a hype job. People will argue that, that is the reason why they call him the "ghost"

It's the other way around. Taylor Hype is over starting on Saturday!!!

[liljp361]

I have a few observations...
1. First, HBO has done a great job producing these shows, better opening credits. The shots were great, interviews, and personal profiles also great.
2. Erica Taylor is Smokin'! Oh man, i wanna get up in that!
3. Taylor-Pavlik II (first time in amatuers) is gonna be very diferent. Like Jack Lowe i hope that Taylor and Stewart are not banking on the first fight as to what will happen the next time.
4. Both Taylor and Pavlik look in great shape!
5. Winky beat Taylor.
6. A Dubya, doesnt mean Jermain won. Just ask his own hometown DJ's. Taylor has more experience and has been in bigGer fights but that doesnt mean JACK in the ring.
7. Taylor avoided Edison Miranda, and Pavlik destroyed him.
8. Miranda hits harder than Hopkins, Wright, Ouma, and Spinks, so how is Taylor gonna hurt Pavlik?
9. Emmanual Stewart is a great trainer, if Taylor wins, it has to go down as one of Stewart greatest wins....
10. I think the Poconos training facility is the best choice for Taylor, no distractions.
11. Experience is a great thing to have, but hunger is the best motivational tool! Pavlik is very hungry, and looks to be very focused for this fight.

Bottom line, as you could have guessed, im picking Pavlik via 10th round KO, or TKO.

good prediction :good

[BITCH ASS]

Hey, he's a boxers. He's responsible for not being in a position to get a bs knockdown...But Zuniga and Berburch DROPPED him, and those were no BS knockdowns either.


Matter of fact, Zuniga dropped him in the first round!!!

Zuniga is fuckin good.

[BIGTIMETIMMY]

I have a few observations...
1. First, HBO has done a great job producing these shows, better opening credits. The shots were great, interviews, and personal profiles also great.
2. Erica Taylor is Smokin'! Oh man, i wanna get up in that!
3. Taylor-Pavlik II (first time in amatuers) is gonna be very diferent. Like Jack Lowe i hope that Taylor and Stewart are not banking on the first fight as to what will happen the next time.
4. Both Taylor and Pavlik look in great shape!
5. Winky beat Taylor.
6. A Dubya, doesnt mean Jermain won. Just ask his own hometown DJ's. Taylor has more experience and has been in bigGer fights but that doesnt mean JACK in the ring.
7. Taylor avoided Edison Miranda, and Pavlik destroyed him.
8. Miranda hits harder than Hopkins, Wright, Ouma, and Spinks, so how is Taylor gonna hurt Pavlik?
9. Emmanual Stewart is a great trainer, if Taylor wins, it has to go down as one of Stewart greatest wins....
10. I think the Poconos training facility is the best choice for Taylor, no distractions.
11. Experience is a great thing to have, but hunger is the best motivational tool! Pavlik is very hungry, and looks to be very focused for this fight.

Bottom line, as you could have guessed, im picking Pavlik via 10th round KO, or TKO.

good post i agree with most of it just saw the countdown last night