Anyone think Haye DIDN'T beat Valuev?

[mcguirpa]

I have to say I'm surprised at how clearly opinion has gone with Haye for this.

I going to stick my head above the parapet and say the immortal cliche 'I just don't think he did enough to take the heavyweight title'.

[Trenaman]

Go to the general forum you'll be in your element!:patsch

[Chubble19]

I will be honest and say I was a bit worried as in the mid rounds Haye didnt do a great deal. However from 8-9 to 12th Round Haye had Valuev missing by miles!!!

It was tight, and Jim's CONSTANT insistence that Haye wasn't doing enough makes you start thinking "is he right?"

I think Haye got it almost spot on tactically, and managed to make the giant get desperate in round 12, hence the chicken leg moment that I love!!

[alba]

I have to say I'm surprised at how clearly opinion has gone with Haye for this.

I going to stick my head above the parapet and say the immortal cliche 'I just don't think he did enough to take the heavyweight title'.


dont think he did,he didnt throw enough enough combinatioons .He only really stunned Valuev once,and he also valuev in some rounds threw/and landed more than haye.so no i dont think he was thr clear winner to be honest .but iveseen worse decision's than that.

[Akxtinguish]

He wasn't as active as he should have been, but the problem with the "he didn't do enough" argument is that it doesn't take account of what the other fighter did, and in this case it was absolutely nothing.

Let's put it this way, Valuev didn't do anything to defend the title.

Also, the little bit of action Haye did bring was effective. The few punches he threw landed cleanly and Valuev was clearly feeling them. The left hook was looking particularly good.

His defensive movement was top notch. Valuev, despite his superior reach and size, simply couldn't touch him.

At the end of the day when you've got one fighter missing with everything he throws, and another one landing most of the punches he throws, and stunning his opponent in the end, you have to give it to the second fighter.

[riot187]

He wasn't as active as he should have been, but the problem with the "he didn't do enough" argument is that it doesn't take account of what the other fighter did, and in this case it was absolutely nothing.

Let's put it this way, Valuev didn't do anything to defend the title.

Also, the little bit of action Haye did bring was effective. The few punches he threw landed cleanly and Valuev was clearly feeling them. The left hook was looking particularly good.

His defensive movement was top notch. Valuev, despite his superior reach and size, simply couldn't touch him.

At the end of the day when you've got one fighter missing with everything he throws, and another one landing most of the punches he throws, and stunning his opponent in the end, you have to give it to the second fighter.

Fair enough. I was of the opinion that Haye hadn't done enough to take the title especially in Germany. Imagine my surprise at the result then!

Like Akx said though, Valuev did absolutely nothing and when you look at it objectively it would be hard to score against Haye. Just wish he's have thrown a bit more!

Ah well. Looks like Ruiz next.

[Akxtinguish]

Fair enough. I was of the opinion that Haye hadn't done enough to take the title especially in Germany. Imagine my surprise at the result then!

To be honest I was surprised as well. I was getting increasingly annoyed at Adam Booth in the corner, who seemed overprotective of Haye. It's common knowledge that in Germany you don't usually get decisions, and Booth kept telling Haye to defend, to "make him miss", whereas in reality Haye should have considerably increased his activity in rounds 10-12.

Valuev was blatantly feeling his punches, and I'm pretty sure that two active rounds from Haye would have been enough to snatch the TKO.

[Leif Erikson]

He clearly won the fight by any objective measure. He didn't land much, but throwing and missing - as Valuev did - won't win you fights when your opponent is landing cleaning, espcially not when they're landing with thudding punches as Haye did more often than not.

I'm not surprised that almost everyone ringside (the drab Watt aside) - German commentary team included - had Haye a comfortable winner. They would have seen his punches landing cleanly while being able to appreciate just how clearly Valuev was missing.

[ryanm8655]

Valuev looked a beaten man at the end.

And I have exactly the same thoughts as above re the missing of punches. It would have been clearer at ringside.

[nufc16]

i'd need to see the stats, but i thought valuev landed more blows, with haye landing the more significant ones. Valuev was the one pressing throughout, granted to not much effect, but i thought with haye being on the backfoot most of the time and landing little, then the judges would give it to valuev. was surprised by the scoring big time.

couldnt believe how certain haye was of the points win when he backed off after nearly having valuev off his feet in the last round. surely even if he did think he was ahead, he cant just leave it to chance, especially as he was fighting on foreign soil.

[ryanm8655]

i'd need to see the stats, but i thought valuev landed more blows, with haye landing the more significant ones. Valuev was the one pressing throughout, granted to not much effect, but i thought with haye being on the backfoot most of the time and landing little, then the judges would give it to valuev. was surprised by the scoring big time.

couldnt believe how certain haye was of the points win when he backed off after nearly having valuev off his feet in the last round. surely even if he did think he was ahead, he cant just leave it to chance, especially as he was fighting on foreign soil.

He didn't back off immediately. He went for the kill but Valuev recovered almost instantly and held on. He boxed smart, although I kinda see your point. He obviously felt he was much more comfortably ahead than Jim Watt had it.

[toffeejack]

I'm gonna have to watch it again but from watching it in the pub I thought Haye looked shit when you think of the talk coming from him before the fight.

Most people around me were amazed when he got the decision.

[GoatySimpson]

I had it 116 - 115 to Haye but I was nowhere near convinced he had done enough so was slightly surprised with the 116-112 score cards from 2 of the judges though. I thought we were heading to a draw...

[ryanm8655]

I'm gonna have to watch it again but from watching it in the pub I thought Haye looked shit when you think of the talk coming from him before the fight.

Most people around me were amazed when he got the decision.

Weirdly I was more concerned for Calzaghe against Hopkins than I was Haye against Valuev. Although it was a case of roles reversed, except Valuev was no where near as effective as Calzaghe was.

I wouldn't have been suprised if Valuev had got the nod. I wouldn't have agreed but given it was germany I'd have understood it and because Haye shook him up in the last it made me confident he'd be more aggressive in a rematch so that may have contributed to my gut feeling after the fight.

We were sat right in front of the T.V. so were praying Haye won so we didn't end up with glass in our faces :lol:

[scunny slugger]

i had valuev winning,i just dont think haye won convincingly enough away from home,reminded me of dirrell froch,where i didnt think dirrell did enough coming to frochs homeland to pinch the belt,this i thought was pretty much the same

[rhinocoote]

no,i genuinely think he did enough,not quite as conclusively as some of the general forum think!,but who listens to them and their strange opinions!.
haye employed the right tactics with his hit and move policy (thankyou holyfield!).
it must have been like hitting an anvil,as haye's hands found out.
i also think that the early body punches from haye had a profound effect on valuev and he had to "suck it up" a few times.it was the most sensible fight tactics i have seen haye and booth employ.
a big shout to adam booth who got his man in peak condition,and kept him fantastically calm throughout with brilliant corner-work!.
all credit to valuev,who recovered well in the last round and was repectfull in losing.you can't carry on being regarded as h/w champ by being impossible to topple,he has had a good reign .
haye won by using the only tactics he could and the fight was never going to look sensational (point i was trying to make to my half-fan freinds who wouldn't shut up last night! "this is boring","why is he not standing toe-to-toe with him?","knock him out!".it will be the last time they will be coming to mine for a fight!.!).
i fancy an exciting few years in the h/w division now,which wouldn't have happened if valuev would have got the decision,something i think that the judges finally succomed to last night.
thanks david:good

[Boro chris]

Cannot for the life of me understand the contraversy about this fight.
Thought it was fairly one sided. True Haye didn't do much but Valuev did nothing. Just plodded after Haye falling short with his jabs and making the odd, ineffectual lunge.
The response in the gf has been nothing short of pathetic. If I thought it was a sanatorium for the insane before, well its just got a whole lot worse.:D

[noonan]

I watched a polish stream lastnight so didnt have the sky sports commentary, but the 5 live commentary on, and i gave it to haye by 4 rounds.....

And did anyboday actually expect Haye to stand toe to toe with him????

[Larryboys]

Most of the rounds featured a whole lot of nothing, Haye was very inactive and I thought for sure the close rounds would be going to Valuev in Germany, but Haye was at least landing some nice shots in between bursts of standing there, whereas Valuev kept up more of pace but missed virtually everything. So I though Haye should have won but at the end didn't think he would because he was leaving too much in the hands of the judges by doing so little.

[Welly]

I thought it was a close fight, but had Haye winning 115-114. Some close rounds, but the right fighter won the fight.

[Flea Man]

Watching it from a 'German perspective I felt Valuev was winning 116-112. Seemed a very similar fight to Froch-Dirrell, bet is the same people moaning (haters) and Haye utilised a Floyd-esque jab to the pit of the stomach well, made Valuev miss constantly and employed ring generalship on the back foot, landing most of the punches he actually threw. So whilst I feel it was a close fight, winning a decision in Germany, lasting the distance and being the first man to visibly hurt Valuev, not a bad nights work. Now to 'Do a Tua' on Ruiz :deal see you there lads :good

[scunny slugger]

Jim Watts is that you dude? if it is you're a bellend :good
why does it make someone a bellend to have an opinion,tell your just a little keyboard warrior,you immature little prick

[widdy]

he beat him,no doubt about it,but was worried cos it was germany,only that

[scunny slugger]

Calm down Jim.
ahhh,grow up man

[scunny slugger]

ahhh,grow up man
and why does it make me jim watt,when i thaught haye didnt do enough...im not the only one,so you saying that everybody that had valuev winning is jim watt?

[scunny slugger]

Get a grip Jim, you should be sacked.
:roll:...boring!

[AndrewFFC]

As a stand alone fight Haye clearly won.

If your going into the winning the belt/going to someones hometown debate, then its less clear cut.

[BoroBoxing1]

Right ! How can you not think Haye won the fight, Valuev was hitting fresh air all night long and getting his head rocked every time Haye hit him, If anybody on this planet thinks Valuev beat Haye in that fight seriously dont have a clue about boxing because he made the circus freak look like a circus freak SIMPLE.

[NO MAS]

So very one sided...

How can you win a contest by not landing with any punches...:think

Haye picked his shots when he could get them through, he did this througout the contest.

He kept the right pace for his own fight strategy...:yep Haye boxed his own fight and not Valuev's.

The Heavyweight division now has a Champion that will make it more appealing....and the best part about it is that the Hayemaker is British...:happy

[Broxi]

I thought he won the fight but I was surprised he got the decision, I had almost resigned myself to the fact it was gonna go against him.

[Boro chris]

Watching it from a 'German perspective I felt Valuev was winning 116-112. Seemed a very similar fight to Froch-Dirrell, bet is the same people moaning (haters) and Haye utilised a Floyd-esque jab to the pit of the stomach well, made Valuev miss constantly and employed ring generalship on the back foot, landing most of the punches he actually threw. So whilst I feel it was a close fight, winning a decision in Germany, lasting the distance and being the first man to visibly hurt Valuev, not a bad nights work. Now to 'Do a Tua' on Ruiz :deal see you there lads :good

How do you personally score the fight? From a 'non german' perspective.

[Claypole]

I agree with Jim Watt and didn't think Haye had done enough. I had Valuev nicking it by a point, but was delighted that the judges disagreed with me.

I was baffled by Adam Booth's advice in the corner and was convinced he was reading the fight wrong. In retrospect though, I think I may have been a bit generous to Valuev, especially early on in the fight.

[kidgloves]

Watt has to go. He clearly doesn't know how to call a fight and let's his bias get in the way

[brown bomber]

I thought he won the fight but I was surprised he got the decision, I had almost resigned myself to the fact it was gonna go against him.My thoughts.....

It was too close for comfort and I had a horrible feeling that he was going to be robbed. I scored it 115-114 and i'm pretty certain Value would present a difficult assignement for either of the the Klitoral brothers.

[Mr Butt]

i personally thought it could of gone either way as haye was abroad and he did not do a great deal of attacking plus it was the sort of fight where you dont know how the judges will view each fighters tactics but valuev did seem to have lost heart late in the fight

[Pug1list]

Frankly Valuev did not deserve keep the belt, his last two fights were absolutely horrendous.

[ShaneTheSherrif]

I thought he won but I thought the judges would score all the close rounds to Valuev so I expected a draw.

[JonOli]

On the betting exchange, just prior to Haye's small burst at the end, Valuev was under 1/2 to win the fight, so there were clearly a lot of people who thought Haye had lost it. It was about 1.8 for Valuev to win at close.

[TFFP]

I was worried that David did not do as much as he could have done as we went to the cards.

That said I thought he won comfortably. You can not win fights without landing a single punch. People, wake up.

[neil hibbert]

no 1 is ever happy are they lol, new british heavyweight champ end of!!!

[AlFrancis]

I thought Haye just about got it and wouldn't of been surprised if it went the other way over there. Saying Valuev didn't land anything is bollocks cos he did land some punches. The problem was that Haye hardly landed anything either. He landed a bigger percentage than Valuev but he hardly through anything.
The fight was a big disappointment. Maybe Haye used the right careful tactics but I'll never watch that fight again.

[Primadonna Kool]

In my opinion David Haye didn't win the fight..


A 46 Year Old Evander Holyfield did a better job..!


His punch out put was pathetic, so he hurt his hand...? I'm not totally convinced to be honest...well i'm not sure. How many times did David Haye miss..? "The beast" did quite a good job on his own defence.


I'm glad he got the decision..!


But he's hardly lit the heavyweight division alight again..!


Do you guys honestly think Tua, and WK/VK are sitting in their houses terrified..?


I don't think so..!!!!

[Flea Man]

Wlad should be. Haye is his worst nightmare IMO.

[Primadonna Kool]

Wlad should be. Haye is his worst nightmare IMO.

He's not really mate..

He's a bad dream..!

But i would'nt go as far as worst nightmare.

[DDA365]

I thought Haye did just about enough to win the fight, but was fully expecting him to be on the end of a Valuev UD special

[mike464]

Valuev didn't land any punches! How can he win?

[Grant1]

I had Valuev 116-113.

But I did score it how I thought the Germans would score it.

I.e, if Haye didn't win clearly Valuev got the round.

I'm still surprised by the scorecards. For one reason or another Valuev didn't get his usual 'insurance'.

[icemax]

I had Valuev 116-113.

But I did score it how I thought the Germans would score it.

I.e, if Haye didn't win clearly Valuev got the round.

I'm still surprised by the scorecards. For one reason or another Valuev didn't get his usual 'insurance'.

No offence mate, but thats insane, factoring in corruption into your scoring :huh

I've just watched the fight again and scored it wider this time around ...I can't really find anyway to give Valuev anything of significance, its embarrassing

[Grant1]

No offence mate, but thats insane, factoring in corruption into your scoring :huh

I've just watched the fight again and scored it wider this time around ...I can't really find anyway to give Valuev anything of significance, its embarrassing

I was pissed mate.

Early start, Cardiff-Swansea, right thru England Australia and then Wales-All Blacks.

It sounded logical at the time and I was dumbfounded that I wasn't spot on :nut

[icemax]

I was pissed mate.

Early start, Cardiff-Swansea, right thru England Australia and then Wales-All Blacks.

It sounded logical at the time and I was dumbfounded that I wasn't spot on :nut

:rofl

[Grant1]

:rofl

You'll notice I gave one round all square too, Haye must have been well on top.

[mcguirpa]

I think when I was watching it (I'd been on the piss aswell) I'd got into the mindset that unless Haye was REALLY doing the business and putting it beyond doubt then Valuev would get the nod.

But... a couple of things.

Valuev did land occasionally. Yes haye made him miss a lot, as expected, but there were times he got caught cleanly. And I actually thought Valuev wobbled him slightly at one point when Haye was against the ropes. Although i don't recall what round it was.

The other thing is Haye's output was atrociously low and this definitely contributed to me seeing it more in Valuev's favour initially. I think he should have made his speed advantage count a lot more.

Last point...

How on earth is haye going to beat Vitali? Would he have to employ similar tactics? Vitali hits harder than Valuev, he has a better chin than Valuev, he's faster, more accurate and more mobile than Valuev. Haye showed on saturday that he's aware he has stamina issues (the reason for the low punch output IMHO), so he won't want it going into the later rounds.

IMVHO he can't run, he can't hide and he can't KO Vitali without being KO'd first.

[Scratch]

No offence mate, but thats insane, factoring in corruption into your scoring :huh


Practically everyone I know did that.

Including me.

I thought Haye won comfortably...but I'd have bet money Valuev would have got the decision.