More confident or less confident on Hayes chances against the Klits? [Archive]

antcull

11-08-2009, 11:57 AM

???

Still think he has zero chance against Vitali, I thought Vitali had grown old before his last performance, but then he didnt stop throwing and he looked great

Wlad, I can't decide. I think Haye has proved his stamina, he certainly proved he has the power to put Wlad down for the count.

Could Haye get to Wlad is the problem, imagine if it was Wlads superb jab reigning down on Haye all night instead of Valuevs. I doubt he could get away from that.

TFFP

11-08-2009, 12:00 PM

Not changed, Valuev is a competely different task to just about anybody.

Still don't give him much hope against Vitali

Live underdog against Wlad, 70/30 in favour of the Ukrainian.

Evil Rich

11-08-2009, 12:02 PM

Really not sure mate, I feel sometimes the more I know about boxing the less I know. I'd love to think Haye could beat Wlad and if nothing else Haye proved he could rock even the biggest of men if he lands but lets have it right, Valuev is in no league near the Klit's and it's very hard to make any conclusions based on that.

Losfer_Words

11-08-2009, 12:04 PM

Evil Rich

11-08-2009, 12:07 PM

I am as confident as I was before. Even when the fight was first announced, I just felt that Haye had the tools to absolutely destroy Wlad. Vitali is a different matter, though, and I think it is by far the toughest fight out there. I want to see the fight with Wlad first and then see if Haye can tackle Vitali. Wlad wanted the fight before, he loves belts and I'm sure he hates Haye enough to request he fights Haye instead of Vitali. It will sure be exciting, though:D:happy. Come on, Haye:woot!!!

I swear down if those two big idiots refuse to fight Haye, I will hate them for the whole of eternity...won't fight each other, said they won't fight Haye...completely ruining the HW division. I just wish I could believe Haye could topple them both, I just really don't see it.

antcull

11-08-2009, 12:10 PM

carrotcruncher

11-08-2009, 12:11 PM

I am as confident as I was before. Even when the fight was first announced, I just felt that Haye had the tools to absolutely destroy Wlad. Vitali is a different matter, though, and I think it is by far the toughest fight out there. I want to see the fight with Wlad first and then see if Haye can tackle Vitali. Wlad wanted the fight before, he loves belts and I'm sure he hates Haye enough to request he fights Haye instead of Vitali. It will sure be exciting, though:D:happy. Come on, Haye:woot!!!
Vitali would batter him, destroy him. Against Wladimir he has a punchers chance, no more. Haye beat a slow, one dimensional fighter and not particularly convincingly. So let's keep this world champion stuff in perspective (a champion who lost to Chagaev and never won it back authentically)

Beeston Brawler

11-08-2009, 12:12 PM

One of them will take Haye on - I don't buy all that BS about 'not dealing with him again'.

I'd look at Vitali personally. He has slipped a long way from the Lewis fight...... he looked great last time out but that was against a fat pudding - who hadn't beaten anyone of note.

Evil Rich

11-08-2009, 12:12 PM

I hope he fights:-
Ruiz
Adamek
Wlad
Vitali

:)

Think if he somehow beat all of them, he'd be worthy of a mention around the greatest HW's of all time or no?

calumbo

11-08-2009, 12:15 PM

I hope he blows out adamek before he takes on one of the klits!
Fed up of all the poles/americans on the general forum who keep posting shit about how admek would ruin haye, he has a better resume etc etc

Pug1list

11-08-2009, 12:18 PM

No chance, he was even more 'boring' than either of the Klit's last night.

robpalmer135

11-08-2009, 12:44 PM

More confident. Haye showed he has the power to knock both Klitsckos out. If
you watch Vitalis last 3 fights, hes not
much faster than Valuev.

neil hibbert

11-08-2009, 01:12 PM

id always fancy haye against vwladamir but dont think he has a shout against vitali

Trenaman

11-08-2009, 01:19 PM

Pretty confident really. I'm inclined to focus on hayes positive attributes, speed, agility, balance, power, good combination punching, focus and being tactically aware, and importantly a chin which looks to have improved now he not cutting the weight.

Bonavena25

11-08-2009, 01:26 PM

Valuev takes away more of Haye's offense than the Klitschko's, and so Haye would look alot more dangerous against them in terms of combinations etc.

However, the chances of Haye getting clocked rises when put in with either Vitali or Wladimir.

I think he's got a live chance with either.

kieron

11-08-2009, 01:31 PM

I think he has a better chance against Vitali than Wlad to be honest. I'd put Valuev and Vit about on par in terms of speed and that is what will make the difference for Haye. He could knock out both Klits imo but Wlad is technically the better of the two and is much quicker which would prove more difficlut. That said I'm much more confiedent that Haye could beat them both now, and by ko as well. Very impressed with Haye last night and answered a lot of questions about his stamina, boxing brain and power at the weight

zfc

11-08-2009, 07:30 PM

Vlad has the weaker chin of the two and I think Haye will starch him.Vitali is a different animal but Haye will hopefully be on a roll by then and with confidence and belief sky high who knows against Vitali who is getting older and slower while Haye is improving and learning.

Pug1list

11-08-2009, 07:32 PM

Haye's chin isn't great either, Wlad's bombs will stop him.

slip&counter

11-08-2009, 07:41 PM

He has a slightly better then average punchers chance against Wlad, but Vitali vs Haye is a mismatch, Vitali knocks him out early or stops him late after a brutal beating either way VK wins.

NO MAS

11-08-2009, 07:47 PM

threethirteen

11-08-2009, 08:17 PM

More confident, simply because it was good to see he's sharp, his reflexes are good and he can attack unexpectedly. The K's have benefited from guys that have one approach and don't fight fluidly, or old guys that are way past their sell-by-dates.

I's still pick against him, but I'm now confident he can come up with a gameplan to beat them both. And even more confident he can stick to it.

20a87

11-08-2009, 08:23 PM

More confident as he showed that he can follow and more importantly stick to the devised gameplan, also his trainer was very good at reigning him in and keeping him calm. Further to this for all the shit said about his chin he is a v.good fighter and boxer and no-one is gonna blast this man out and skip off with his belt without getting a couple of hayemakers first

icemax

11-08-2009, 08:33 PM

Jacko

11-08-2009, 08:54 PM

A bit more confident, but i wasn't really confident in the first place.

Haye proved his power by wobbling Valuev and he looked really sharp and quick.

However his chin is still a big question mark. Valuev was to slow to hit it but Wlad is much quicker and Vitali, whilst not quick, does have good timing. If their is a weakness in Haye's chin these two will quickly expose it.

Haye did look quick but i don't know if he will be able to leap in when throwing punchers as he did aginst Valuev and other opponents. The Klits use their height very well and Wlad has a killer jab and Vitali times his counters well so David could get caught whilst leaping in.

His stanima is also in question. Yes he proved he can move around the ring a lot and still be sharp and have the strenth to slip punchers but his work rate was extreamely low. Will he tire if he has to throw punchers on a regular basis over 12 rounds as he surely will against Vitali?

deebest

11-08-2009, 08:55 PM

I swear down if those two big idiots refuse to fight Haye, I will hate them for the whole of eternity...won't fight each other, said they won't fight Haye...completely ruining the HW division. I just wish I could believe Haye could topple them both, I just really don't see it.

If they refuse to fight him they should be stripped of their belts and sent packing back to the Ukraine.

JonOli

11-08-2009, 08:58 PM

If he had trouble getting through Valuev's defence with any great frequency, I think he may struggle with Wlad's.

On the positive side, it looks like he hurt Valuev, it's just a pity the rest of the fight couldn't have been like the twelfth. Still, it looks like his power may well possibly still be there at HW - which is a good thing.

I'm surprised how much Haye is blowing in the corner though (going into he twelfth):

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slip&counter

11-08-2009, 09:05 PM

rusticraver

11-09-2009, 05:51 AM

Anyone else notice how well covered up Valuev's body was? his arms were huge!

Against less of a freak show it's more of a Haye style fight. If he can add that of movement he showed last night with a higher punch output i honestly believe he can make Vitali look terrible. Let's not dress this up Vitali is far from prime.

robpalmer135

11-09-2009, 05:54 AM

how sad that a British heavyweight title holder will probabily be more known and watched in Germany then Britain, the fight got a staggering over 40% market share in Germany, which translates to around 9 million viewers, stunning!

The whole country knows who Haye is now. It got 1million PPV sales with sky, at least 4 people on average would of been watching the ppv for each buy. everyone was talking about it and he is front page of every paper today and yesterday.

alba

11-09-2009, 06:10 AM

Whatever the Klits have said in the past about 'not giving Haye another shot' is BS....Both Wlad and Vitali would love to get Haye....no other HW fight even comes close to the money Haye can bring now (I think the UK PPV numbers will be high)

I hope he fights:-
Ruiz
Adamek
Wlad
Vitali

:)

adameck would immense fight,if no one has seen his fight against golota .take a look,granted golota aint all that,but still a good performance and a few more fights could see him grow into being a heavyweight fighter.

and him and haye could have a decent scrap .

hit me HARDER

11-09-2009, 06:37 AM

I'm as confident as before concerning Wlad, I think if he commits, Haye knocks him out.

I'm more confident he can box-clever & beat Vitali now too. I'd say it's a 60/40 fight in Vitali's favour, whereas I didn't really give David a hope in hell beforehand.

ryanm8655

11-09-2009, 06:56 AM

I don't think it makes too much difference.

Valuev is a different proposition to any heavyweight out there. The size difference any heavyweight faces when fighting him makes it a one off fight, that's why I don't understand people saying Haye isn't any better than a 46 year old Holyfield ont he basis that many feel Holyfield beat valuev.

The main concern is both Vitali and Wlad hit pretty hard, Haye is known to have a dodgy chin (although I personally think this is overexaggerated, it's not like every time he gets hit on the chin he goes down), coupled with this both have a size and reach advantage and both are technically sound. These were the main concerns before and they are still the main concerns now. Haye looked like Whitaker the other night but the Klitschko's are a different proposition.

On the plus side he showed he can be disciplined and exercise a game plan and that his legs can go 12 rounds at a decent pace, although he wasn't punching at a great rate, and he could certainly wobble both brothers if he can land cleanly. Will he be able to do this without getting caught himself?

I hope so just to shut all the Klitschko huggers up, they talk some absolute garbage.

BIG WORM

11-09-2009, 07:18 AM

More confident, if Haye hit any of them Kitschkos with that punch that wobbled Valuev he'd knock em both out!!

I think Haye's athleticism, speed, POWER and the tactics he used against Valuev would beat em..... hit and move, don't stand in front of them and fight... But when Haye hits either of the twins he'll do more damage..

Grant1

11-09-2009, 07:38 AM

Same as I was.

I think he loses to both.

Vitali, no chance.

Wlad, more chance and I think Haye could knock him out, but how many jabs would he need to eat before doing that. Don't think his resistance is up to it.

Be nice to find out though.

achillesthegreat

11-09-2009, 08:17 AM

less. he could have the defence to avoid wlad and land big. vitali should rip him a new one.

champ1

11-09-2009, 08:30 AM

Vitali I would have as big fave , wladimir punchers chance ...I wasnt impressed with Hayes stamina yeah he lasted the 12 rounds he hardly threw any shots vitali will make him work twice as hard!

trotter

11-09-2009, 08:34 AM

More. Slightly. Because at the end of the day, he's executed his plan well. And winning away again confirms he has the temperament for the big occasion.

So he showed me a little more in this fight. Not much, but a little.

He'd still be a biggish underdog against either brother in my view.

ryanm8655

11-09-2009, 08:35 AM

Vitali I would have as big fave , wladimir punchers chance ...I wasnt impressed with Hayes stamina yeah he lasted the 12 rounds he hardly threw any shots vitali will make him work twice as hard!

In terms of punch output he'll definitely have to work harder, unless he can get the KO I can't see him lasting. He might prove us wrong though, but for me Vitali's biggest strength is the fact he is busy, that's why he did well against lewis, his problem is he defends punches with his head, which is all very well against smaller substandard opposition, but that's why his face was cut to shreds by lewis imo and it is perhaps something Haye and Booth can look to exploit.

Benjiabc

11-09-2009, 08:50 AM

I think that Haye will KO Wlad and beat Vitali on points in similar fights to last night...:yep

I think that Haye will stay well clear of both and KO Wlad on the counter, I see him keeping the discipline and beating Vitali on points...:good

Could happen,

I fancy Haye to stop Wlad.

But i think that Vitalis chin may well be too strong for Haye to stop him. Haye may win a decision against vitali but i doubt it

El Cepillo

11-09-2009, 08:52 AM

The fact that Haye made a big, durable guy like Valuev do the chicken dance in RD12 makes me think he would stand a respectable chance against a less than iron-chinned Wladamir. He'd still be the 'live underdog' though, as TFFP said.

I think Vitali would KO Haye in about 6 rounds or less.

So, I'm more confident of his chances against Wlad, the same about his chances against Vitali.

kieron

11-09-2009, 09:01 AM

I'm surprised how many people are convinced that Vitali is invincible, particularly against Haye. Is he really quicker than Valuev and is his chin better? I'm not so sure and I think this will be the key for Haye. The explosiveness and powerr in Haye's shots have not been seen in the heavyweight division for many years and I think he will prove that he can back up all the trash talk. I do see Wlad as a tougher task as his defence is tighter and he is much quicker than his big brother which will make it harder for David to land even if Wlad's chin is dodgy. Don't forget Vitali is wide open at times and he's just a man, if Haye connects I reckon he'll go.

Redondo5

11-09-2009, 09:09 AM

I think it doesn't change much.... Klits are slow but not as slow and imobile as Valuev. Have got more power and use their weight to much better effect.... So Haye would rightly be a heavy underdog.... having said that.... I have more confidance in him having a chance to KO wlad ....after seeing him make Valuev do a little dance (no one else has had Valuev do that in 51 fights).... But Vitali has got a very good chin....

I would love to see Toney vs Valuev though.... I can only imagine Toney standing his ground using his skills to avoid punches and countering.... 1 reason why Toney would stand a chance is because Valuev doesn't hold or lean on his opponents

Boro chris

11-09-2009, 09:23 AM

Live underdog against both Klits.

ed7890

11-09-2009, 09:33 AM

More confident of Wlad, less confident against Vitali

Chagaev looked much more impressive beating Valuev and then he got completely shut out against Wladimir. But then styles make fights. Haye is bigger than Chagaev, he's got that big right hand and Wlad is a bit chinny (well he gets flustered when pressured anyway).

The best chance of him getting beat is for somebody to be fast enough to get inside his jab and to have the power to hurt him. Haye has the power and he looked like he has really improved his footwork in the fight on Saturday.

I'd say Vitali would kill him though, based on how good he looked against Arreola. Haye didn't look that good I would fancy him over Vitali yet.

anjawnaymiz

11-09-2009, 09:39 AM

vlads got the dodgy chin but he's almost perfected keepin his opponents at bay plus he jabs hard and straight down the pipe, if haye can rattle him a bit and bring him out of his shell he has a good chance of putting vlad away otherwise its jab sandwiches all night in germany.

vitali has the better chin and he wont mind taking three of hayes punches just to land his one, although vitali could grow old over night.

hayes got a better chance than any other fighter out there to beat the klitshkos although i think haye should defend his title for a bit just for more experience at heavyweight before he challenges the k bros. maybe ruiz and boytsov defences?

Beeston Brawler

11-09-2009, 09:58 AM

I'm not so sure Wlad will like having his opponent trying to slip his jab and actually punch back...... his recent fights aren't a great judge of firstly, how good his jab is, and secondly, whether he has improved at all when pressured.

Also, Haye will be slightly more offensive - the plan was certainly to stay out of range and make Valuev move..... I'd expect to see a much higher use of right hand counters...... and less jabbing to the body.

English Nutter

11-09-2009, 10:06 AM

I go with the majority on here tbh..against vital im not confident at all he's just too solid for me..but with wlad there's always a chance he could catch him on his suspect chin,but yeh i never gave him a chance against valuev so yeh definatly more confident....if he can stay out of the way and protect HIS OWN dodgy chin then yeh he can do it.