View Full Version : Anyone think the Haye fight was fixed
KingCobra
11-08-2009, 01:37 PM
Does anyone here think that Haye was set up to win this fight. Only asking because a friend of mine said they thought the fight looked a little contrived. Thinking about it there are a few things which seemed a little odd. Sauerland and Don King seemed ok with the result. Haye got the win in Germany. Valuev has recently stated that his heart isn't in boxing and there is a shit load more cash to be made with Haye as world champion than Valuev.
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with my friend (and I hate to disparage Haye's win) but I can see where they're coming from. Opinions anyone?
threethirteen
11-08-2009, 01:40 PM
King and Sauerland didn't care because they've got options on Haye for winning.
Broxi
11-08-2009, 01:40 PM
Nope.
KingCobra
11-08-2009, 02:00 PM
King and Sauerland didn't care because they've got options on Haye for winning.
I keep reading this but can't find a source although it does make sense!
How exactly did it seem contrived?
Mookhound
11-08-2009, 02:16 PM
NO.
For the love of God, Haye was always, always going to win this fight. He is immensely talented, Valuev isn't.
Hulk Hogan would lose to Naseem Hamed in a boxing match. If you can't fight, you can't fight. The size helps, obviously, and Valuev was clever at using it to his advantage, but he's not talented enough to beat the top tier of heavies. He can beat guys who are a bit more skilled, like Barrett, but not those who are a helluva lot more skilled, like Chagaev.
KingCobra
11-08-2009, 02:21 PM
How exactly did it seem contrived?
He didn't go into specifics. Something about Valuevs performance didn't sit right with him and he has seen Valuev fight before. I'm not saying I thought it was fixed per se. I thought both fighters tried to win. I just got the impression that Valuevs management / promoter were happy with the result for their own reasons and if they could have influenced the decision they chose not to. Can't see King allowing Valuev to voluntarily defend against Haye unless he was sure to gain on the outcome and I think he will have more to gain with Haye as the champion if he has options on future fights. I will ask my friend for clarification on what he meant when I next speak to him.
trotter
11-08-2009, 02:21 PM
Course it fucking wasn't lol
You try to 'contrive' a chicken dance like Valuev did, or the various cuts and bruises these guys come out with
People who believe this shit probably still leave their teeth under the pillow for the tooth fairy
DamonD
11-08-2009, 02:22 PM
...nah.
joe6991
11-08-2009, 02:23 PM
He didn't go into specifics. Something about Valuevs performance didn't sit right with him and he has seen Valuev fight before. I'm not saying I thought it was fixed per se. I thought both fighters tried to win. I just got the impression that Valuevs management / promoter were happy with the result for their own reasons and if they could have influenced the decision they chose not to. Can't see King allowing Valuev to voluntarily defend against Haye unless he was sure to gain on the outcome and I think he will have more to gain with Haye as the champion if he has options on future fights. I will ask my friend for clarification on what he meant when I next speak to him.
so basically what you're saying is that it looked fixed because it looked as if the judges were'nt paid off for valuev to win???
He didn't go into specifics. Something about Valuevs performance didn't sit right with him and he has seen Valuev fight before. I'm not saying I thought it was fixed per se. I thought both fighters tried to win. I just got the impression that Valuevs management / promoter were happy with the result for their own reasons and if they could have influenced the decision they chose not to. Can't see King allowing Valuev to voluntarily defend against Haye unless he was sure to gain on the outcome and I think he will have more to gain with Haye as the champion if he has options on future fights. I will ask my friend for clarification on what he meant when I next speak to him.
Are you sure he's seen Valuev before? Because he shouldn't have been that surprised if he has, because thats how Valuev lost against Chagaev and Holyfield and maybe even Donald. He plods around the ring when faced with good footwork, and doesn't really have the fire in him to fight angry, or throw 3 or 4 punch combinations to try and land. He just does the same old thing until he loses. Jab, jab, inch forward, jab, inch forward, throw overhand right.
KingCobra
11-08-2009, 02:29 PM
so basically what you're saying is that it looked fixed because it looked as if the judges were'nt paid off for valuev to win???
I'm saying that it was always obvious that if the fight was scored fairly Haye would win. The fight was scored pretty fairly which is surprising given some of the decisions Valuev has taken in the past. Either the WBA didn't want another dodgy decision in Germany and appointed straight judges or some other influence ensured a fair fight ie Don King. The only reason I can see for him doing that is because he has options on and stands to make more money from the more marketable Haye as World champion than he does from N. V.
So to answer your question "fixed" was a bad way of putting what I meant. I do think there is a strong possibility that Valuevs management / promo team are now to some extent Hayes management / promo team and are probably going to make more money as a result.
Mazallan
11-08-2009, 02:32 PM
No it was not.
As for King not looking unhappy, its not exactly the end of the world for him. Perhaps he's not unhappy because he DOES have the options on Haye's next fight and will hope to take that further?
King was in a no lose situation really, he didn't need to do anything dirty and there is no real evidence to suggest that was the case except for speculation. King covered all bases when the fight was made as he usually does.
PatrickP
11-08-2009, 02:44 PM
This was a cash out for Valuev, anyone who thinks any differently is naive to say the least. Haye probably would have won anyway but the scorecards were going his way no matter what. His reaction at the end said it all, he didn't even look remotely worried about the scorecards...in Germany! It wasn't as if he had done so much that there should not have been even a doubt in his mind but he seemed to think it was a foregone conclusion, which it most likely was. Can anybody give me a recent example of a challenger winning the title in Germany without ko'ing or totally & clearly outclassing his opponent from start to finish?:huh I'm not saying there isn't one I just can't think of an example right now.
Just to make it clear, I think Haye was going to win anyway based on his talent but it wouldn't have surprised me if there were some guaratees put in place to make sure of it. Valuev has had fights fixed in his favour in the past so it is not beyond the realms of possibility that Haye would have too. In reality the only fixing Haye was going to need was a fair decsion so it makes no difference really.
kosaros
11-08-2009, 02:48 PM
Oh FFS..........
KingCobra
11-08-2009, 02:49 PM
As for King not looking unhappy, its not exactly the end of the world for him. Perhaps he's not unhappy because he DOES have the options on Haye's next fight and will hope to take that further?
King was in a no lose situation really, he didn't need to do anything dirty and there is no real evidence to suggest that was the case except for speculation. King covered all bases when the fight was made as he usually does.
Yeah. I picked haye to win although by KO - blind optimism. I didn't think he'd get the decision. I'm probably so distrustful of King that a fair decision in one of his fights promotes my suspicion more than an unfair decison because it is so out of character! This is compounded by the fact that it was a voluntary defence so one which he didn't have to allow. Thanks for taking the time to post your views :good
AndrewFFC
11-08-2009, 03:15 PM
The score cards took a long time to collect, the future capitol lies with Haye, but I really couldn't say.
'Ben'
11-08-2009, 03:16 PM
The better guy won. Simple as.
essexboy
11-08-2009, 03:39 PM
It was odd Haye winning a close fight in Germany thats for sure. Who knows maybe judges are just scoring fights right now?
Akers
11-08-2009, 03:50 PM
lol. No.
Unforgiven
11-08-2009, 03:51 PM
It wasn't an outright fix but I think the boxing establishment allowed Haye to get a fair decision because they see his money-mmaking potential as a personality.
Holyfield beat Valuev last year but that fight was rigged against him. At 46, they want rid of Evander.
Haye and his people looked suspiciously comfortable and confident at the final bell before the decision was announced. Considering Valuev's history when it goes to the judges .......
I think we all know how this business works. anyway, for once the right man got the decision.
KingCobra
11-09-2009, 03:56 AM
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"dear old Don King could be heard loudhailing to camera: "He's a little man who proved to be a big man – and tonight David Haye is a giant! I love you David! And God Save the Queen!"
Yep. Can't tell me that this man doesn't stand to make some big money from Haye! LOL!
trotter
11-09-2009, 04:04 AM
It wasn't an outright fix but I think the boxing establishment allowed Haye to get a fair decision because they see his money-mmaking potential as a personality.
Holyfield beat Valuev last year but that fight was rigged against him. At 46, they want rid of Evander.
Haye and his people looked suspiciously comfortable and confident at the final bell before the decision was announced. Considering Valuev's history when it goes to the judges .......
I think we all know how this business works. anyway, for once the right man got the decision.
So they fixed a fair result? Sounds a bit ludicrous to me.
Before the fight King allegedly said something about Haye winning the rematch after losing this one. That's proved to be poppycock.
Boxing is a murky business but not half as bad as people make out.
Farmboxer
11-09-2009, 04:09 AM
Even Jim Watt said that Haye had to do more than just run around the ring without punching.
You can see that Haye knew he won the fight and did not need to punch, just run around the ring. Valouev did not show any emotion, as if he did not care.
The money is to be made off Haye. If appears as if Haye will not fight Vitali, he will just right Ruiz, the Valouev again, etc.
Chagaev was the real WBA champion, beat Valouev, Vlad beat Chagave and won the title in the ring, however, the criminal WBA gave the title to Valouev as a gift, Haye was give the paper title as a give as well. Vital wants to get Haye into the ring ASAP, but Haye does not want that fight.
trotter
11-09-2009, 04:10 AM
Even Jim Watt
Your post lost any credibility amongst Brits right there I'm afraid
indie_uk1
11-09-2009, 04:45 AM
Jesus, you cant even go a win a fight without pathetic sceptics claiming cheat. I think the look on team Hayes faces, hayes broken fingers, valuevs chicken dance and the awkwardness of the whole fight suggests anything but a fix
LiamE
11-09-2009, 04:48 AM
NO.
For the love of God, Haye was always, always going to win this fight. He is immensely talented, Valuev isn't.
Hulk Hogan would lose to Naseem Hamed in a boxing match. If you can't fight, you can't fight. The size helps, obviously, and Valuev was clever at using it to his advantage, but he's not talented enough to beat the top tier of heavies. He can beat guys who are a bit more skilled, like Barrett, but not those who are a helluva lot more skilled, like Chagaev.
Of course Hogan would lose to Hamed. How can you expect a wrestler to beat a boxer that outweighs him by 50lb?
Davo-The-Don
11-09-2009, 05:00 AM
Course it fucking wasn't lol
You try to 'contrive' a chicken dance like Valuev did, or the various cuts and bruises these guys come out with
People who believe this shit probably still leave their teeth under the pillow for the tooth fairy
this. :good
Davo-The-Don
11-09-2009, 05:02 AM
Even Jim Watt said that Haye had to do more than just run around the ring without punching.
You can see that Haye knew he won the fight and did not need to punch, just run around the ring. Valouev did not show any emotion, as if he did not care.
The money is to be made off Haye. If appears as if Haye will not fight Vitali, he will just right Ruiz, the Valouev again, etc.
Chagaev was the real WBA champion, beat Valouev, Vlad beat Chagave and won the title in the ring, however, the criminal WBA gave the title to Valouev as a gift, Haye was give the paper title as a give as well. Vital wants to get Haye into the ring ASAP, but Haye does not want that fight.
farmboxer is getting tiresome..........again..........:|
bennie
11-09-2009, 05:06 AM
Harry Mullan used to say you don't need to 'fix' fights. Ninety-five per cent of the time you know exacly who is going to win, anyway, although (typically) I thought Valuev would win. Well done, David Haye and Adam Booth.
bingbong
11-09-2009, 05:14 AM
I wanted Haye to win, cheered him on in the pub, and although the fight was dull as fuck for a neutral it had an interest to all Brits and watched throughout.
But after all that , yes, I definitely think the result was influenced by Don King.
I can't be arsed typing all the ins and outs of exactly why, main one is marketablity and potential profit of David Haye over Valuev for future fights , this opening poster on sb pretty much sums up the reasons here.
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icemax
11-09-2009, 05:23 AM
I'm confused :huh Some people are saying the fight was fixed because Haye wasn't robbed :roll:
icemax
11-09-2009, 05:26 AM
"dear old Don King could be heard loudhailing to camera: "He's a little man who proved to be a big man – and tonight David Haye is a giant! I love you David! And God Save the Queen!"
Don King is worth the entrance money on his own, the man is a legend...a bent legend, but one nevertheless :deal
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