Cotto vs .....

[bez]

Tsyzu at 140?....

Duran at 147?....

M Taylor at 147?...

:bbb

[JMP]

Cotto goes 0-3

[bez]

So would pacman!

[Boxed Ears]

Even though I really think highly of Cotto, I wouldn't favor him against any of the ATG 140 and 147-pounders. I'm not saying he'd have zero chance but I wouldn't favor him against a single one.

[Totomabs]

So would pacman!


how come pacman got drag into this thread?:huh

[lefthook31]

I think he beats Taylor and Tsyzu. He hasnt shown any problems with speedy boxers. Whats Tsyzu going to do really? Cotto is equally as strong and brings a solid in game Tsyzu does not.
Duran gives him hell.

[McGrain]

Who on earth did Cotto beat at 140 that makes anyone think he could beat Kostya? Additionally he's a pressure fighter that looked vulnerable against only good punchers at that weight. Kostya would bury him, and I mean for 10.

[lefthook31]

Who on earth did Cotto beat at 140 that makes anyone think he could beat Kostya? Additionally he's a pressure fighter that looked vulnerable against only good punchers at that weight. Kostya would bury him, and I mean for 10.
Its true he struggled a bit to make weight and his chin was depleted a bit, but I think his overall skills are better than Tsyzu's, who basically had a probbing jab and righthand but a really good one. Cotto was not a fighter to get stuck on the outside and would be pressing the action. He has solid wins over Randall Bailey, Caesar Bazan and specifically his war with olympic conquerer Muhammad Abdullaeav, who was a solid guy until Cotto just ruined him, but I think his welterweight fights really are his biggest "name" wins. Cotto hasnt been buried by anyone yet, what makes you think Tsyzu could do it?

[McGrain]

Well I think Kostya is one of 140's harder punchers, ever. He's also it's longest serving champion (all belts). He's got pedigree and power.

Given that Cotto was seriously hurt by such leading lights as Torres and Corley, I don't think it's much of a reach to see Tsyzu going one better, espcially when you factor in the styles, which vastly favours him.

[lefthook31]

Well I think Kostya is one of 140's harder punchers, ever. He's also it's longest serving champion (all belts). He's got pedigree and power.

Given that Cotto was seriously hurt by such leading lights as Torres and Corley, I don't think it's much of a reach to see Tsyzu going one better, espcially when you factor in the styles, which vastly favours him.
Cotto is a pretty hard puncher himself. Like I said youre right his chin was a little shaky at 40, and mostly because of weight depletion, but he always got up and finished by knockout. I dont know how you think Tsyzus style favors in the fight? Cotto is an excellent counterpuncher, and Tsyzu isnt as fast as the guys that you mentioned. Tsyzu likes to operate at distance, and with Cotto pressing Im not so sure it would play out like you think. Torres and Corely could also punch pretty good themselves.

[McGrain]

Cotto might or might not be an excellent counterpuncher, but that certainly isn't his style. His style is pressure fighter. I wouldn't even call him a pressure counter-puncher, though you could argue that point. The bottom line is, you've got a pressure or pressure-counter fighter who in you own words has a chin that is "a little shakey" moving forwards into one of the hardest punchers in the divisions history.

There's your style advantage.

And Torres and Corley aren't in Kostya's league as punchers.

[lefthook31]

Cotto might or might not be an excellent counterpuncher, but that certainly isn't his style. His style is pressure fighter. I wouldn't even call him a pressure counter-puncher, though you could argue that point. The bottom line is, you've got a pressure or pressure-counter fighter who in you own words has a chin that is "a little shakey" moving forwards into one of the hardest punchers in the divisions history.

There's your style advantage.

And Torres and Corley aren't in Kostya's league as punchers.
Hes definitely a pressure counterpuncher. How else would he have beaten Mosley and Judah? He didnt beat those guys with reckless abandonment? I wouldnt put Cotto in Phillips league either and he blasted Tsyzu out of there. Hatton beat him with sloppy pressure, although Tsyzu was pretty well past his best.
Tsyzu would definitely be his most dangerous opponent at that weight, but I think your underestimating Cotto's ability. Hes not just a one dimensional slugger like you suggest.

[bodhi]

Cotto is a pretty hard puncher himself. Like I said youre right his chin was a little shaky at 40, and mostly because of weight depletion, but he always got up and finished by knockout. I dont know how you think Tsyzus style favors in the fight? Cotto is an excellent counterpuncher, and Tsyzu isnt as fast as the guys that you mentioned. Tsyzu likes to operate at distance, and with Cotto pressing Im not so sure it would play out like you think. Torres and Corely could also punch pretty good themselves.

Tszyu wasn´t a great puncher just because of his power but also, and imho mostly, because of his perfect timing, judge of distance and accuracy. On top of that he was great at playing possum to lure you. Can´t see Cotto not falling for this at least one time and this would be one time too much.

Taylor´s habit of getting into a fight when he should box would give Cotto a good chance and while Cotto is bigger than JCC he isn´t as skilled. I think Taylor would get knocked out here and wins on points pretty clearly.

Duran wasn´t the same animal at 147 as he was at 135 but he still sould be too intense for Cotto. Cotto would b finished after this one.

[McGrain]

Hes definitely a pressure counterpuncher.

Probably, but it's the pressure part that's important here. Pressure fighter (of any kind) v puncher is a very obvious style advantage for the puncher, probably the most obvious style advantage.


Tsyzu would definitely be his most dangerous opponent at that weight

Understatement?

but I think your underestimating Cotto's ability. Hes not just a one dimensional slugger like you suggest.

I haven't suggested that anywhere. I'd consider Frazier a pure pressure fighter, but I definitely wouldn't describe him as a "one dimensional slugger".

All of this is in the book though.

[McGrain]

Tszyu wasn´t a great puncher just because of his power but also, and imho mostly, because of his perfect timing, judge of distance and accuracy.

Aye, a composite puncher of good order, no question. In fact his pure power is overated by many, but it doesn't really matter specifically because of what you've mentioned.

[Beeston Brawler]

I'm not sure Cotto is reckless enough to beat Tszyu by applying pressure..... I know that sounds really dumb.

He certainly wouldn't beat him by boxing either - one facet of Tszyu's game that often get's overlooked.

[lefthook31]

Probably, but it's the pressure part that's important here. Pressure fighter (of any kind) v puncher is a very obvious style advantage for the puncher, probably the most obvious style advantage.
Not necessarily see Hatton fight. Cotto is a calculated pressure fighter.


Understatement?
And really the same goes for Tsyzu



I haven't suggested that anywhere. I'd consider Frazier a pure pressure fighter, but I definitely wouldn't describe him as a "one dimensional slugger".
sorry for implying, but I would describe Hatton as such
All of this is in the book though.

See comments above.

[ricardoparker93]

I feel that Tszyu could cause him all sorts of trouble. He destroys Taylor at welterweight and takes a beatdown in a war with Duran, which would play a bit like the Palomino fight i think.

[ricardoparker93]

Cotto might or might not be an excellent counterpuncher, but that certainly isn't his style. His style is pressure fighter. I wouldn't even call him a pressure counter-puncher, though you could argue that point. The bottom line is, you've got a pressure or pressure-counter fighter who in you own words has a chin that is "a little shakey" moving forwards into one of the hardest punchers in the divisions history.

There's your style advantage.

And Torres and Corley aren't in Kostya's league as punchers.

Torres is an exceptionally hard puncher and could knock out anyone at 140 i feel. He is the Miranda of 140

[Tin_Ribs]

I feel that Tszyu could cause him all sorts of trouble. He destroys Taylor at welterweight and takes a beatdown in a war with Duran, which would play a bit like the Palomino fight i think.

Cotto wasn't nearly as strong, durable or hard-hitting as Palomino was. It makes my blood run cold to think what Duran would have done to him. A Davey Moore job, most likely.

Tszyu, for me, knocks him out, though in a fairly competitive fight. Cotto wouldn't be going hell for leather like Hatton or Phillips and isn't strong enough to push Tszyu back, a shortcoming that spells trouble for him.

Taylor would be interesting though.

[frankenfrank]

i bet most of the reactors here forget or never knew that duran was down at 135 against dejesus but they will consider him the clear favorite to beat cotto at 140. cotto would have beaten taylor there and against the other 2 it is a close call.

[Mantequilla]

Dejesus was much better than Cotto.

[Tin_Ribs]

i bet most of the reactors here forget or never knew that duran was down at 135 against dejesus but they will consider him the clear favorite to beat cotto at 140. cotto would have beaten taylor there and against the other 2 it is a close call.

So he was knocked down against DeJesus at 135. OK. He also beat Leonard, Palomino and Cuevas at 147, with particular emphasis on the word beat. Just to clarify, are you saying that you think Cotto would beat Duran? Or even be competitive with him?

[frankenfrank]

So he was knocked down against DeJesus at 135. OK. He also beat Leonard, Palomino and Cuevas at 147, with particular emphasis on the word beat. Just to clarify, are you saying that you think Cotto would beat Duran? Or even be competitive with him?
at least competitive for sure.
he did outpoint a roided GH'd speeded mosley.
and leonard stopped him. with particular emphasis on the word stopped.
also see the hearns fight.

[PowerPuncher]

Its true he struggled a bit to make weight and his chin was depleted a bit, but I think his overall skills are better than Tsyzu's, who basically had a probbing jab and righthand but a really good one. Cotto was not a fighter to get stuck on the outside and would be pressing the action. He has solid wins over Randall Bailey, Caesar Bazan and specifically his war with olympic conquerer Muhammad Abdullaeav, who was a solid guy until Cotto just ruined him, but I think his welterweight fights really are his biggest "name" wins. Cotto hasnt been buried by anyone yet, what makes you think Tsyzu could do it?

So much wrong with this post, Margarito clearly burried Cotto. Cottos durability was terrible at 140lbs and his competition was C Class and they were all smaller, and still Torres nearly KO'd him and Corley shook him up. Cotto gets hit and hurt in most fights, Tyszu is the biggest puncher he would have faced

Taylor may outbox him to a UD or get stopped late. Duran takes Cotto's soul

[Tin_Ribs]

at least competitive for sure.
he did outpoint a roided GH'd speeded mosley.
and leonard stopped him. with particular emphasis on the word stopped.
also see the hearns fight.

:huh

[lefthook31]

So much wrong with this post, Margarito clearly burried Cotto. Cottos durability was terrible at 140lbs and his competition was C Class and they were all smaller, and still Torres nearly KO'd him and Corley shook him up. Cotto gets hit and hurt in most fights, Tyszu is the biggest puncher he would have faced

Taylor may outbox him to a UD or get stopped late. Duran takes Cotto's soul
So much wrong with all your posts. Maybe Margaritos gloves were the reason he got stopped LATE at WELTERWEIGHT, not to mention Margarito is a big welterweight, certainly bigger than Cotto and he also cheated. Mosley certainly proved maybe that was the case, after he LOST to Cotto. Competiton was C level, hmm what three or four former champions at 140? All smaller? Thats funny Cotto is 5'7, not a big welter or junior welter considering all the fighters you mentioned were actually taller than him, and most have moved up as well.

[PowerPuncher]

So much wrong with all your posts. Maybe Margaritos gloves were the reason he got stopped LATE at WELTERWEIGHT, not to mention Margarito is a big welterweight, certainly bigger than Cotto and he also cheated. Mosley certainly proved maybe that was the case, after he LOST to Cotto. Competiton was C level, hmm what three or four former champions at 140? All smaller? Thats funny Cotto is 5'7, not a big welter or junior welter considering all the fighters you mentioned were actually taller than him, and most have moved up as well.

Firstly Cotto was dead at the weight at 140lbs, thats obvious if you followed him

Yes Margaritos gloves were the reason fat boy ran out of gas, because thats what happened, its tiresome to hear excuses

Mosley's loss to Cotto is disputed I thought Mosley won, and Mosley was what 37?

AND YES COTTO PICKS ON SMALLER MEN, THATS WHY HE ENTERED 140LB FIGHTS AT 159LBS!!!!! Most would consider that a pretty big LWW, or a MW picking on LWWs

Lets look at these 5 'champions' read gatekeepers, these fighters are C Level of lower if we consider Gatti C Class

Maussa - worst P4P titlist of all times, he cant even hit a speed bag hes that poor, Ive seen him training, seeing is believing how crap he was

Torres - the best he faced perhaps, nearly had him out, pretty unskilled, no defense, much smaller

Corley - no big wins on his ledger, a decent gatekeeper with decent speed, past prime when Cotto go to him anyway and a natural LW with no power, still had Cotto seriously hurt. Premature stoppage too

Mallignaggi - the weakest P4P puncher of all time rocked Cotto at 140lbs and won about 5 rounds on a fair scorecard. Paulie is truly shit and he deserved to lose to Ndou and Ngoudjo who are no great shakes. Hatton dominated Paulie far more emphatically than Cotto

Ndou - decent gatekeeper to the top 10, Witter looked better against Ndou than Cotto who had to fight going backwards

Cotto was dead at the weight at 140lbs it was pretty obvious. No way he takes any great fighter while hes dead at the weight.

[rekcutnevets]

I posted this in another thread:

Cotto is going to be facing a fighter with much faster hands, and Cotto cannot allow Pacquiao to land too many big left hands. Cotto has been rocked by a southpaw's left on several occasions. It looks as though he adjusted his guard in between the Judah and Mosley fights, but Mosley is not a southpaw.

The key to this fight is Cotto's jab. Establishing the jab is sometimes necessary in defeating a faster fighter. Especially when the faster fighter is also smaller. Cotto can't let Pac move in and out, and side to side, as he pleases. If Cotto can land the jab, he can keep the fight at a range more to his favor. Cotto can then look to set up his combinations of his jab, and set up his attacks to the body. Pacquiao is very tough, but it may be physically impossible for him to take a lot of big shots from a fighter presumably this much larger.

If Pacquiao can stop Cotto from establishing his jab, most of the fight will already be won for him. Pacquiao is substantially quicker, and is used to facing faster opponents. Pac may not be able impose his style on Cotto to the effect he did De la Hoya, but it could end up looking similar.

I'm glad we're getting this fight.

[lefthook31]

Firstly Cotto was dead at the weight at 140lbs, thats obvious if you followed him
Dead hmm undefeated. Tszyu stopped by Phillips stopped by Hatton at 140 Followed him? Seen him up close. You? Not a big muscled guy.
Yes Margaritos gloves were the reason fat boy ran out of gas, because thats what happened, its tiresome to hear excuses
Were not talking about weltwerweight.

Mosley's loss to Cotto is disputed I thought Mosley won, and Mosley was what 37?
Bad excuse, Mosley is a top welterweight coming off one of his best career performances, beating Cotto conquerer Margarito

AND YES COTTO PICKS ON SMALLER MEN, THATS WHY HE ENTERED 140LB FIGHTS AT 159LBS!!!!! Most would consider that a pretty big LWW, or a MW picking on LWWs
Cotto has had weight problems, reason he got into boxing. Hes not a highly muscled thick guy, like Ndou for instance. 5'7" coming into a fight at 159? Never heard that one

Lets look at these 5 'champions' read gatekeepers, these fighters are C Level of lower if we consider Gatti C Class


Maussa - worst P4P titlist of all times, he cant even hit a speed bag hes that poor, Ive seen him training, seeing is believing how crap he was


Torres - the best he faced perhaps, nearly had him out, pretty unskilled, no defense, much smaller
WBO champ?

Corley - no big wins on his ledger, a decent gatekeeper with decent speed, past prime when Cotto go to him anyway and a natural LW with no power, still had Cotto seriously hurt. Premature stoppage too

Mallignaggi - the weakest P4P puncher of all time rocked Cotto at 140lbs and won about 5 rounds on a fair scorecard. Paulie is truly shit and he deserved to lose to Ndou and Ngoudjo who are no great shakes. Hatton dominated Paulie far more emphatically than Cotto


Ndou - decent gatekeeper to the top 10, Witter looked better against Ndou than Cotto who had to fight going backwards

Cotto was dead at the weight at 140lbs it was pretty obvious. No way he takes any great fighter while hes dead at the weight
As for your above comments lets look at the two fighters Tsyzu was stopped by at 140, keeping in mind Cotto was never stopped at 40.
Vince Phillips and Ricky "club" fighter Hatton. :hey

[Xplosive]

Cotto goes 0-3... and he quite possibly losses his life against Duran.