**In Jermain Taylors defense....**

[Orishaman]

I am not what you would call a JT fan, but I will give credit were credit is do....Jermain Taylor, regardless of the outcomes on his title fights if you agreed with the desciions or not, fought 48 rounds with the best at 160 lbas and held his won, to a point you can say that there was a clear winner....sure the descions were controversial, but he made them close , close enought to made them controversial...BHop, WW and Kassin, they were all close fights....and that should command respect...regardless if you like JT or not....

[Zakman]

Sure he hung in there against Hopkins and Wright - but fans get pissed off when they see fighters get questionable decision after questionable decision. It really leads one to question the legitimacy of the sport.

And then there is the whole issue of uninspiring performances against light-hitting fighters coming up from lower weight classes.

Bottom line - Taylor has been unimpressive, and his management seems to have gone out of their way to put him in with light-hitting fighters. It leads one to question if this guy can take a punch from a legitimate, hard-hitting MIDDLEweight.

Pavlik will provide that test. My bet is Taylor fails it, and fails it badly!

[India_Foot_Bob]

The loser of this fight should gain 8 pounds and be declared supermiddleweight champion.

[dragosuhail]

that's not lilely. winner OR loser would be best to avoid going to supermiddle. both kessler and calzaghe are too much for both pavlik and taylor atm.

personally i think taylor is done. his abilities took him this far and credit to him. but i believe pavlik will beat up taylor enough that when taylor goes to supermiddle, no champ is going to treat him like a former unified champ. kessler/calzaghe would be only too happy to fight taylor for american exposure.

pavlik would have a little more chance moving up as he has a frame that is big even for supermiddle weight. whether his stamina/power/speed transferred well remains to be seen. and if pavlik loses to taylor then forget about moving north for him.

in a few years pavlike might have improved enough to tackle an older kessler (since calzaghe will be long gone from the divsion). but for now, the suppermiddle champs kick both taylor and pavliks asses.

[Orishaman]

Zackman and El Ray both are making my point even stronger...I would not say that JT just hung with BHop,common what fight did you watch...was a clear winner obvious on any of those fights including the WW fights...NO....and you both agree..so then...lets give some credit to JT....and that is the pointof the thread, we talk of JT as a chump, Ouma and Spinks theya re lighter fighters but they are World Class fighters, weight classes at time are overated, hell did weight classes ever bothered SRR or Henry Armstrong...and before some stupid ass hole says " Well Jermain is no SRR or Henry Armstrong" I am not saying that I am merely saying that putting down JT for winning against lighter opponents is not fair to Spinks not Ouma..noir to JT.....he won thoses fight, I may not agree with the descions, but the fact that it was that close on all fights is a statement to JT..like it or not

[McGrain]

I am not what you would call a JT fan, but I will give credit were credit is do....Jermain Taylor, regardless of the outcomes on his title fights if you agreed with the desciions or not, fought 48 rounds with the best at 160 lbas and held his won, to a point you can say that there was a clear winner....sure the descions were controversial, but he made them close , close enought to made them controversial...BHop, WW and Kassin, they were all close fights....and that should command respect...regardless if you like JT or not....


I agree with all of this. The decisions were borderline but they would have been borderline if they had gone the other way too. Why all this venom for a young guy who takes on some good figthers and doesn't lose in close fights, I just don't know.

[McGrain]

his management seems to have gone out of their way to put him in with light-hitting fighters.

Pavlik will provide that test!

These two statements seem to contradict each other.

IF Taylor beats Pavlik, and i'm beginning to think he might, he'll have beaten a hard hitter, a legend at the weight, a top p4p fighter in a pretty short reign.

Compared to some alphabet champs thats an astonishing - astonishing - record.

[pipe wrenched]

Zackman and El Ray both are making my point even stronger...I would not say that JT just hung with BHop,common what fight did you watch...was a clear winner obvious on any of those fights including the WW fights...NO....and you both agree..so then...lets give some credit to JT....and that is the pointof the thread, we talk of JT as a chump, Ouma and Spinks theya re lighter fighters but they are World Class fighters, weight classes at time are overated, hell did weight classes ever bothered SRR or Henry Armstrong...and before some stupid ass hole says " Well Jermain is no SRR or Henry Armstrong" I am not saying that I am merely saying that putting down JT for winning against lighter opponents is not fair to Spinks not Ouma..noir to JT.....he won thoses fight, I may not agree with the descions, but the fact that it was that close on all fights is a statement to JT..like it or not


You are right. JT definitely deserves mad credit for getting to where he has gotten, and defending his belts. That said: Times up Champ, Kelly the Ghost Pavlik by stunning round 7 KO.

[Orishaman]

I agree with all of this. The decisions were borderline but they would have been borderline if they had gone the other way too. Why all this venom for a young guy who takes on some good figthers and doesn't lose in close fights, I just don't know.

The venon simply comes from the fact that he has been the beneficiary of the close calls...and like you said, if the descions would ahve gone agaisnt him, he would ahve been santified for getting "all those bad calls"....JT is what he is...nothing more or less...but is a fact that he has fought tought and made the fights that close at least with BHop and WW, and even Spinks and Ouma...let's face it Ouma and Spinks are the best 6lbs liter....

[swedeone]

You are right. JT definitely deserves mad credit for getting to where he has gotten, and defending his belts. That said: Times up Champ, Kelly the Ghost Pavlik by stunning round 7 KO.


I couldn't agree more! :good

Kelly is going to have a lot of Taylor backers shaking their head in disbelief next Saturday night. :yep

[India_Foot_Bob]

that's not lilely. winner OR loser would be best to avoid going to supermiddle. both kessler and calzaghe are too much for both pavlik and taylor atm.

personally i think taylor is done. his abilities took him this far and credit to him. but i believe pavlik will beat up taylor enough that when taylor goes to supermiddle, no champ is going to treat him like a former unified champ. kessler/calzaghe would be only too happy to fight taylor for american exposure.

pavlik would have a little more chance moving up as he has a frame that is big even for supermiddle weight. whether his stamina/power/speed transferred well remains to be seen. and if pavlik loses to taylor then forget about moving north for him.

in a few years pavlike might have improved enough to tackle an older kessler (since calzaghe will be long gone from the divsion). but for now, the suppermiddle champs kick both taylor and pavliks asses.

That would be true if the Midget Lightheavyweight division was full of talent. Alas, it is a wasteland -fullstop-

[bigeddie27]

I agree with all of this. The decisions were borderline but they would have been borderline if they had gone the other way too. Why all this venom for a young guy who takes on some good figthers and doesn't lose in close fights, I just don't know.
mcgrain i cannot understand it either, so much hate for jermain on here. I doubt any of these idiots even watched him throughout his career after the olympics. It is almost like they want him to lose, and lose badly for no fucking reason. I guess other than - 'hey lets always pick taylor's oppenet so when he loses I can say I TOLD U SO', fucking morons on here. and taylor won the first and second hopkins fight btw. hopkins deserved to lose that fight by playing it safe and believing it would work with jermain. jermain was too hungry that night

[Orishaman]

Now, JT will need to listen to Emanuel or it could be lights out early....the first 4 rounds of this fightn will be critical for JT

[Kolya]

Yup. But I think after the first B-Hop fight; both of us were surprised O-man; I thought Hopkins won by closing the show.

[Orishaman]

Yup. But I think after the first B-Hop fight; both of us were surprised O-man; I thought Hopkins won by closing the show.

I agree, but the point is that he did made the fight that close...that it couldhave gone either way.....that deserve credit I think

[Zakman]

taylor won the first and second hopkins fight btw. hopkins deserved to lose that fight by playing it safe and believing it would work with jermain. jermain was too hungry that night

:rofl:rofl:rofl

Hungry?? What, hungry to eak out a gift decision, and then go on to get another, and another.:patsch

Hungry to fight light-hitting fighters moving up from lower weight classes??:lol:

You're right about one thing though - there are plenty boxing fans that are damn pissed off that HBO stole Hopkins' title and gave it to their latest hype job.:fire

This weekend, Pavlik's gonna right that wrong, bigtime!!! :yep Can't wait!!!:happy

[Orishaman]

:rofl:rofl:rofl

Hungry?? What, hungry to eak out a gift decision, and then go on to get another, and another.:patsch

Hungry to fight light-hitting fighters moving up from lower weight classes??:lol:

You're right about one thing though - there are plenty boxing fans that are damn pissed off that HBO stole Hopkins' title and gave it to their latest hype job.:fire

This weekend, Pavlik's gonna right that wrong, bigtime!!! :yep Can't wait!!!:happy

Like it or not he got the desicions over BHop, and he made both fights close enought to create reasonable soubt one way or the other...and he did it againt WW, when WW was steam rolling opponents and making them look bad...so credit were credit is do...and is he going to lose this Sat...he could, can Pavlik lose ...absolutely.....if JT's jab is in tip top shape....it willb e along night for Pavlik....if not, then he will need to take Pavliks power, which I don't think he can...

[Thor]

Like it or not he got the desicions over BHop, and he made both fights close enought to create reasonable soubt one way or the other...and he did it againt WW, when WW was steam rolling opponents and making them look bad...so credit were credit is do...and is he going to lose this Sat...he could, can Pavlik lose ...absolutely.....if JT's jab is in tip top shape....it willb e along night for Pavlik....if not, then he will need to take Pavliks power, which I don't think he can...

No point in debating with Zakman. He has the words "hype job" and "gift decisions" tattooed on his brain in regards to Taylor.

[psychopath]

No needs to defend Taylor . . . no matter what . . . HATERS are HATERS.

Just let Taylor depend himself by his performance in the ring on this fight. :yep

I'll say 75 to 85 % . . . this fight is gonna end up with a K.O. or STOPPAGE so let's see who'll remain standing. :D

:good

[Amsterdam]

AH LOOK!

More Jermain Taylor apologism to brighten our days.:roll:

[box03]

Taylor is a good fighter like it or not, as many people already said before me Taylor has fought nothing but the best in his division over the last couple years. And wether his victories arent clear cut he still won them in the end the W is all that matters, I just wonder if he will get any credit from some of these Taylor haters if Pavlik gets beat.

[psychopath]

AH LOOK!

More Jermain Taylor apologism to brighten our days.:roll:

Apologism? :D :lol: :rofl

You're gonna eat crow buddy . . . you're apologism will never be accepted by this board once your boy loses.

You're too obssesed with your HATRED. :hey

:good

[cuchulain]

Sure he hung in there against Hopkins and Wright - but fans get pissed off when they see fighters get questionable decision after questionable decision. It really leads one to question the legitimacy of the sport.

And then there is the whole issue of uninspiring performances against light-hitting fighters coming up from lower weight classes.

Bottom line - Taylor has been unimpressive, and his management seems to have gone out of their way to put him in with light-hitting fighters. It leads one to question if this guy can take a punch from a legitimate, hard-hitting MIDDLEweight.

Pavlik will provide that test. My bet is Taylor fails it, and fails it badly!

The decisions can be questioned, but they were in NO WAY gift decisions. Anyone who maintains they were 'gift' decisions has no real business on any boxing forum.

Gift decisions: Holy's draw in Lewis (1), Tito's 'win' vs Oscar etc.,

Both Hopkins/Taylor fights were close. Taylor getting 115/113, 114/114 or even 113/115, would all have been within the range of reasonable.

There is NO evidence so far, of chin problems either. The guy has never been down, much less KO'd.

Anything can happen in this fight but I don't expect Pavlik to pose a great deal of problem for Taylor.

[Sister Sledge]

I can't believe that a figter that has fought the best and Middle and Light MW is so disrespected. He hasn't taken on any softies but he is blamed because his opponents don't have power. Never mind the fact that the best fighters at these weights are more boxer than puncher. Pavlik is a guy who has feasted on softies and got a name for beating a possibly weight drained Edison Miranda. People say "Pimpin' ain't easy. I say being JT ain't easy.

[Marnoff]

Thing with Taylor is, no matter who you score the fights for, they were very close. Couple that with the fact that he takes big fight after big fight against quality fighters, and it's hard not to at least respect him. He also showed a lot of balls by going after Winky with a closed eye and whatnot.

Now he fights Pavlik, I can't wait.

[boy-wonder]

remember that boxing is one of the toughest sports in the world and is hard to look spectacular every fight.

I was never overly impressed with the skills that he displayed but i think he is loaded with natural talent.

At the end of the day, Jermaine is kool with me bc he has shown that he is willing to take on the hardest possible fights with bhop, winky and pavlik, and an occasional warm up inbetwwen is not only acceptable but natural in kassim ouma and spinks. Ever fight cannot be a war....... as a champion you take on lesser opponents to work on things and stay sharp.

i am not a JT fan, but i respect him alot.

he does not make excuses like other fighters