Does the Jermain Taylor apologism ever end?

[Amsterdam]

Well, aside from his official starching coming up by a B level solid pressure fighting boxer-puncher, it probably would not. No Taylor apologist threads tend to come up when the Amsterdam account at ESB makes a Taylor 'realist' thread every so often and generally it's a cool down time and then 3 or 4 Taylor apologist mentality threads tend to pop up.

They of course consist of 'Taylor doesn't deserve this flak', 'Taylor fought the best in his division every fight after he won the titles', 'Like it or not, Taylor is the best in the division', 'Taylor is a proven elite, he'd smash anything not of the elite A class', 'Taylor has never been down, his chin is great', 'Please realist fans, stop bursting our false P4P bubble!:lol: '.

Only a week left, it's starting to get exciting really and that disgrace of a champion will be gone with hardly any avenue's left and his apologist crew will be in shame, some totally annihilated by Sir Zakman and the rest.

Only a week left and one card out of the false deck is removed.;)

[psychopath]

Nah buddy it's the TAYLOR hatred threads that never ends. :lol:

Then you'll call the replies apologism? :hey

You're stytle suck dude. Try harder. . . so that posters here can bitchslapped you to the ground once Pavlik loses. :yep

:good

Diddn't you say Pavlik will be destroyed by Miranda? :rofl

I should rememeber that because you also lost an avatar bet with me. I just didn't push through with it because I got too busy to look for a good avatar.

[Amsterdam]

Nah buddy it's the TAYLOR hatred threads that never ends. :lol:

Then you'll call the replies apologism? :hey

You're stytle suck dude. Try harder. . . so that posters here can bitchslapped you to the ground once Pavlik loses. :yep

:good

Diddn't you say Pavlik will be destroed by Miranda? :rofl

Yes, but Pavlik brought the X factor that I said would be the deciding factor of the bout, his then 'unknown' chin, he also brought effective pressure, in which the only bout I saw was Zertuche, where he did not fight in a pressuring manner.

By the way, Edison beats Taylor, by KO no less. We have significant evidence that Taylor's jaw is suspect.

You will be sporting an avatar of my choosing for six months, as well as a new phrase for that scroller you have.:D

[unclepaulie]

Amsterdam, youre eventually gonna run out of ways to say Taylor is overrated, has gotten gift decision after gift decision, and is going to be knocked out by Pavlik. Then again maybe not.
Pavlik KO 6

[mad_takamura]

go psycho! i have a haunch that taylor would win.:good

[psychopath]

Yes, but Pavlik brought the X factor that I said would be the deciding factor of the bout, his then 'unknown' chin, he also brought effective pressure, in which the only bout I saw was Zertuche, where he did not fight in a pressuring manner.

By the way, Edison beats Taylor, by KO no less. We have significant evidence that Taylor's jaw is suspect.

You will be sporting an avatar of my choosing for six months, as well as a new phrase for that scroller you have.:D

No problem with me sporting your specially made avatar buddy. I won't look as bad as you once Taylor lost because I have never insulted or degraded Pav. :yep

You'll be remembered by everybody dude . . . once you use my well designed avatar. :good

[Lance_Uppercut]

By the way, Edison beats Taylor, by KO no less. We have significant evidence that Taylor's jaw is suspect.


What evidence is that? Has he been dropped? Knocked out? Has he been wobbled repeatedly? Or are you basing that on his competition somehow?

[Amsterdam]

Amsterdam, youre eventually gonna run out of ways to say Taylor is overrated, has gotten gift decision after gift decision, and is going to be knocked out by Pavlik. Then again maybe not.
Pavlik KO 6

Don't worry Jay, when this disgrace is removed and this apologist mentality ends, I will just make one final thread in review, it will be detailed to every facet of the situation at hand and then that will be it.

Taylor getting KOed shows a lack of collective boxing knowledge considering this apologist mentality towards this disgrace and the fact that many, even good posters, cannot even note why Pavlik easily wins this bout.

[psychopath]

Don't worry Jay, when this disgrace is removed and this apologist mentality ends, I will just make one final thread in review, it will be detailed to every facet of the situation at hand and then that will be it.

Taylor getting KOed shows a lack of collective boxing knowledge considering this apologist mentality towards this disgrace and the fact that many, even good posters, cannot even note why Pavlik easily wins this bout.

Lack of knowledge? Is that the same thing you're saying to people who picked Pav to win over Miranda? :think

:D :lol: :good

[Amsterdam]

What evidence is that? Has he been dropped? Knocked out? Has he been wobbled repeatedly? Or are you basing that on his competition somehow?

We already saw him put on queer street against Hopkins, as a follow up, he was stunned by Winky Wright and to even further this claim, he was bothered by the punches of Ouma and Spinks, not stunned, but wary of them at least.

This shows very much potential chin problems and he's never faced a puncher of any kind.

[Amsterdam]

Lack of knowledge? Is that the same thing you're saying to people who picked Pav to win over Miranda? :think

:D :lol: :good

I stated above what my prediction on the fight would be like, what the factors going in would come into play. As I said, Pavlik brought a good jaw into the ring and effective pressure, thus, he won. I was running off the Zertuche fight alone. That was a real pick em fight.

You must have picked up on me getting on 'Capfunds', for his absurd overrating of Kelly Pavlik, such as calling him the 'closest thing to Tommy Hearns' and in that respect, I did bash Pavlik quite a bit.

[box03]

Taylor cant do no right, he was the agressor in all of his fights yet he is the one blamed for winning boring fights. Hopkins is not the most exciting fighter and Spinks is far from being exciting fighter, yet its Taylors fault. I cant wait until Taylor gives Pavlik a boxing lesson, but I pray to god that he knocks Pavlik out.

[allenko1]

Jermain was very tired in the Hopkins fight, and he didn't once get hurt in the rematch. Winky got him but is not knockout puncher. That fight went both ways. I think he does have a good chin and what it takes inside to win any fight.

[psychopath]

I stated above what my prediction on the fight would be like, what the factors going in would come into play. As I said, Pavlik brought a good jaw into the ring and effective pressure, thus, he won. I was running off the Zertuche fight alone. That was a real pick em fight.

You must have picked up on me getting on 'Capfunds', for his absurd overrating of Kelly Pavlik, such as calling him the 'closest thing to Tommy Hearns' and in that respect, I did bash Pavlik quite a bit.


Yeah you stated your prediction which came out wrong . . . isn't that right? :think

Now why are you insulting the people who are chosing Taylor? :D What if you're wrong again dude? :rofl :hi:

[Fedor Em]

We already saw him put on queer street against Hopkins, as a follow up, he was stunned by Winky Wright and to even further this claim, he was bothered by the punches of Ouma and Spinks, not stunned, but wary of them at least.

This shows very much potential chin problems and he's never faced a puncher of any kind.

Oh so being "less than stunned" is chinny now. :lol: :lol: "Potential Chin Problems" he may have with such a big puncher like Pav, but the only time he has ever been hurt in his carrer was by a perfect shot Nard landed on him. I would say right now Taylor has a good chin, not great, but definately not chinny either. It is his defense I am more worried about in this fight rather than his chin.

[MSTR]

Don't worry Jay, when this disgrace is removed and this apologist mentality ends, I will just make one final thread in review, it will be detailed to every facet of the situation at hand and then that will be it.

Taylor getting KOed shows a lack of collective boxing knowledge considering this apologist mentality towards this disgrace and the fact that many, even good posters, cannot even note why Pavlik easily wins this bout.
It doesn't show a lack of knowledge if he does win, just a different interpretation of the fight. When you have picked fights wrong does that mean it has been because of a lack of knowledge? NO. Simply that you thought the bout would play out differently. Pavlik is probably the favourite on the moment at ESB, so its not like you have chosen a monumental under dog or anything.

[Amsterdam]

Yeah you stated your prediction which came out wrong . . . isn't that right? :think

Now why are you insulting the people who are chosing Taylor? :D What if you're wrong again dude? :rofl :hi:

But you see, I do this for many big fights, because some fights are evident to heavily favour one of the fighters, this is no exception.

Most of the time, I am correct, if I am wrong this time, I agknowledge that the amount of crow that I will eat is going to be some of the biggest in boxing forum history for this hate campaign, but I also accept that and will eat it with salt and pepper added.

[Amsterdam]

It doesn't show a lack of knowledge if he does win, just a different interpretation of the fight. When you have picked fights wrong does that mean it has been because of a lack of knowledge? NO. Simply that you thought the bout would play out differently. Pavlik is probably the favourite on the moment at ESB, so its not like you have chosen a monumental under dog or anything.

Does it show a lack of knowledge picking MAB over Pacqauio? You agreed that it does to an extent.

This is no different, nightmare style for Taylor with all intangibles favouring Pavlik. Just both are prime, where Pac is prime and MAB is not, but the difference that makes it a good example is that MAB is an ATG with immense experience and Taylor is a B level overrated scumbag.

I have never said that this was some 'special pick'. I said it shows a lack of boxing knowledge that they aren't catching on to what's an 'easy pick', that anybody should get outright given the factors.

[allenko1]

Does it show a lack of knowledge picking MAB over Pacqauio? You agreed that it does to an extent.

This is no different, nightmare style for Taylor with all intangibles favouring Pavlik. Just both are prime, where Pac is prime and MAB is not, but the difference that makes it a good example is that MAB is an ATG with immense experience and Taylor is a B level overrated scumbag.

I have never said that this was some 'special pick'. I said it shows a lack of boxing knowledge that they aren't catching on to what's an 'easy pick', that anybody should get outright given the factors.

Tell us about these intangibles that favor Pavlik.

[Amsterdam]

Tell us about these intangibles that favor Pavlik.

Chin, power, stamina, mentality, workrate.

[Mind Reader]

Jermain Taylor takes too much shit, he gets crapped on quite a bit and is a nice guy who still has his belts.

[psychopath]

But you see, I do this for many big fights, because some fights are evident to heavily favour one of the fighters, this is no exception.

Most of the time, I am correct, if I am wrong this time, I agknowledge that the amount of crow that I will eat is going to be some of the biggest in boxing forum history for this hate campaign, but I also accept that and will eat it with salt and pepper added.

Oh ok fair enough. :D :lol:

Goodluck! :good

[allenko1]

Chin, power, stamina, mentality, workrate.

Well I said Intangibles, but we'll see about it.

[Amsterdam]

Do you know what is really hilarious?

I don't even hate the guy that bad, it's just amusing how you all fall into this everytime. He will lose and he is highly, highly overrated and there will be a 'serious' natured review thread of the entire situation that will be highly detailed.

He IS a decent fighter, but that's it, just decent. Had a stylistic advantage over an aging Hopkins but couldn't capitalise, had a size and strength advantage over Wright but could not capitalise even when he had the tools and physical advantages to beat Winky as seen when he was having success at points in the bout, then the Ouma and Spinks bouts really showed my assessment of the guy prior to them happening.

Now he fights a hard hitting, heavily determind pressure fighter, it's disaster for him.

Anyway, I'm not nuts, I really don't even care to the degree I have stated and I haven't bought that bottle of wine, but this is an 'easy' pick, it's right in everyone's face and no you all aren't stupid for picking Taylor, because Pavlik is average otherwise.

However, the ones who are 'heavily' favouring Taylor are lacking in general boxing knowledge when it comes to styles and intangibles and what to look for in picking a fight going from a technical stand point.

But, no more Taylor threads until the 'review' thread, this is getting boring.

[Alo2006]

Yes, but Pavlik brought the X factor that I said would be the deciding factor of the bout, his then 'unknown' chin, he also brought effective pressure, in which the only bout I saw was Zertuche, where he did not fight in a pressuring manner.

By the way, Edison beats Taylor, by KO no less. We have significant evidence that Taylor's jaw is suspect.

You will be sporting an avatar of my choosing for six months, as well as a new phrase for that scroller you have.:D

No way Edison ko's Taylor. If anything, it's the other way around. I can't wait until next week :bbb

[Amsterdam]

Well I said Intangibles, but we'll see about it.

Chin, power, stamina, mentality and workrate are intangibles that a fighter brings, all of them. Other intangibles include 'heart', 'hunger', 'strength' etc.

Please pay attention.

[allenko1]

Taylor has better hand and footspeed....

[lillarry]

Chin, power, stamina, mentality, workrate.



You do know that Taylor has never tasted the canvas in his pro career right?

[psychopath]

Do you know what is really hilarious?

I don't even hate the guy that bad, it's just amusing how you all fall into this everytime. He will lose and he is highly, highly overrated and there will be a 'serious' natured review thread of the entire situation that will be highly detailed.

He IS a decent fighter, but that's it, just decent. Had a stylistic advantage over an aging Hopkins but couldn't capitalise, had a size and strength advantage over Wright but could not capitalise even when he had the tools and physical advantages to beat Winky as seen when he was having success at points in the bout, then the Ouma and Spinks bouts really showed my assessment of the guy prior to them happening.

Now he fights a hard hitting, heavily determind pressure fighter, it's disaster for him.

Anyway, I'm not nuts, I really don't even care to the degree I have stated and I haven't bought that bottle of wine, but this is an 'easy' pick, it's right in everyone's face and no you all aren't stupid for picking Taylor, because Pavlik is average otherwise.

However, the ones who are 'heavily' favouring Taylor are lacking in general boxing knowledge when it comes to styles and intangibles and what to look for in picking a fight going from a technical stand point.

But, no more Taylor threads until the 'review' thread, this is getting boring.


:yikes Isn't that what you call apologist? :lol: :D

You don't really hate the guy? After all the agitating threads you have posted?

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

No more Taylor HATRED threads?

[DanePugilist]

Oh so being "less than stunned" is chinny now. :lol: :lol: "Potential Chin Problems" he may have with such a big puncher like Pav, but the only time he has ever been hurt in his carrer was by a perfect shot Nard landed on him. I would say right now Taylor has a good chin, not great, but definately not chinny either. It is his defense I am more worried about in this fight rather than his chin.... and lack of boxing intelligence, power, ring generalship, workrate, footwork, accuracy - damn the list goes on and on...

[Brickhaus]

Nobody's ever said Taylor's chin was great, only that it's not china like you make it out to be.

Miranda's power is overrated. He couldn't put down Pavlik, who doesn't have a great chin, and he couldn't even finish off a guy who had a broken jaw for 8 rounds.

[DanePugilist]

You do know that Taylor has never tasted the canvas in his pro career right?Do you know that he has avoided punchers like the plague?

[DanePugilist]

Nobody's ever said Taylor's chin was great, only that it's not china like you make it out to be.

Miranda's power is overrated. He couldn't put down Pavlik, who doesn't have a great chin, and he couldn't even finish off a guy who had a broken jaw for 8 rounds.Nobody has said its china, he has been stunned by the featherfisted - Pavlik has alot of power in both hands.

Pavlik has a very good chin, which makes up for his rather poor defence.

[psychopath]

Do you know that he has avoided punchers like the plague?

Is that a fact? :think

I thought I've read it in other websites and in print several times that Taylor never backs up from any fight? :roll:

Well he is fighting Pav who has a high K.O. percentage now isn't that right?

[kg0208]

Does Pavlik hit hard?

[Brickhaus]

Nobody has said its china, he has been stunned by the featherfisted - Pavlik has alot of power in both hands.

Pavlik has a very good chin, which makes up for his rather poor defence.
I wouldn't say he has a very good chin. He was downed by Zertuche, and he'd been stunned in fights before that. Average to above average I'll accept, but very good is overdoing it, IMO. Like I said in my last post, it's tough to vbase his chin on the Miranda fight because Miranda's power is so overrated. He's one of those guys who looks like he's strong, and therefore everyone assumes he is strong. Pavlik is much stronger than Miranda.

[DanePugilist]

Is that a fact? :think

I thought I've read it in other websites and in print several times that Taylor never backs up from any fight? :roll:

Well he is fighting Pav who has a high K.O. percentage now isn't that right?
1)Yes, thats a fact.

2) Don't believe everything that is fed to you on other sites.

3) Because he can't avoid yet another one. He is loosing popularity, because more and more realize that no. 2 is just an illusion.

[Carlos Primera]

i dont care who wins. pavlik ko'ed my boy miranda so i dont mind if taylor ko's him. but i'm leaning on pavlik to win just cause taylor keeps his left low, dont move his head and does'nt like being pressed. on the other hand pavlik head is also stationary and has holes in his defense. taylor with the faster hands can take advantage of this if he's not gunshy. though i have a feeling that taylor will be lured into a gunfight (as he feels he's not getting respect and will be out to prove something), in this scenario pavliks reach, power and workrate should be the difference maker.

[kg0208]

Does Pavlik hit hard?

[DanePugilist]

Does Pavlik hit hard?His Ko-rate suggests it, and he doesn't seem to outbox his opponents.

[Amsterdam]

Is that a fact? :think

I thought I've read it in other websites and in print several times that Taylor never backs up from any fight? :roll:

Well he is fighting Pav who has a high K.O. percentage now isn't that right?

He really has no choice. If he were to duck the mandatory(Pavlik), he'd lose the belts, if he were to drop the belts and jump to 168, after specifically stating that he wants to stay at MW for a few more years as an excuse to give up the 6-7 million he'd earn for fighting Calzaghe in Las Vegas, that would make him look extremely bad and at SMW he'd have to take on someone dangerous or it would look like he was ducking Pavlik.

This is something he couldn't avoid, so he has to give it his best shot and inevitably fail.

[Amsterdam]

... and lack of boxing intelligence, power, ring generalship, workrate, footwork, accuracy - damn the list goes on and on...

It's not that he lacks these, it's that he's B level in all of these save for athleticism, which he's A level in that, which is enough to be competitive with an aging P4P guy, as we all know.

[allenko1]

Remembering for a second

Taylor didn't HAVE to face Pavlik. He CHOSE to face Pavlik.

Don't mind Sigfried (Hamsterman) and Roy (DanePunkulist) - they're so wrong, they wouldn't even know if they were right.

Taylor/Pavlik Sept. 29th could've been Calzaghe/Taylor among other options. Really no need to question either man's heart, manhood etc...

[DanePugilist]

Remembering for a second

Taylor didn't HAVE to face Pavlik. He CHOSE to face Pavlik.

Don't mind Sigfried (Hamsterman) and Roy (DanePunkulist) - they're so wrong, they wouldn't even know if they were right.When all else fails, start with namecalling - seemingly you have failed miserably since joining.

[kg0208]

His Ko-rate suggests it, and he doesn't seem to outbox his opponents.

I know he hits hard (I have picked him to win). My point in asking the question is very simple though.

It's suggested here that Pavlik will KO Taylor cuz Taylor has a weak chin. Getting stopped by a KO artist with very good, maybe even great (we don't know) power won't prove Taylor has a weak chin.

People with weak chins get stopped by non punchers. If Hearns KO'd you, it didn't mean you had a weak chin....Hearns had great power and could stop fighters no one else could.

[Amsterdam]

Does Pavlik hit hard?

Zertuche and McKart were known for granite chins, he stopped them, more impressive with Zertuche of course since McKart was shot.

[kg0208]

He really has no choice. If he were to duck the mandatory(Pavlik), he'd lose the belts, if he were to drop the belts and jump to 168, after specifically stating that he wants to stay at MW for a few more years as an excuse to give up the 6-7 million he'd earn for fighting Calzaghe in Las Vegas, that would make him look extremely bad and at SMW he'd have to take on someone dangerous or it would look like he was ducking Pavlik.

This is something he couldn't avoid, so he has to give it his best shot and inevitably fail.

He could have fought Sturm to unify some belts if he wanted to fight an non puncher. And the only belts that matter wouldn't strip him for fighting someone other than Pavlik.

[Amsterdam]

I know he hits hard (I have picked him to win). My point in asking the question is very simple though.

It's suggested here that Pavlik will KO Taylor cuz Taylor has a weak chin. Getting stopped by a KO artist with very good, maybe even great (we don't know) power won't prove Taylor has a weak chin.

People with weak chins get stopped by non punchers. If Hearns KO'd you, it didn't mean you had a weak chin....Hearns had great power and could stop fighters no one else could.

It's the manner he gets stopped, if he's sparked out easily, say after a few good hits and then a few more to seal it, that showcases a problematic chin, especially for weight jumping against guys like naturally hit harder than Pavlik.

If it takes Pavlik a long time to grind him down like it did Zertuche, then it showcases a sturdy jaw.

[DanePugilist]

It's not that he lacks these, it's that he's B level in all of these save for athleticism, which he's A level in that, which is enough to be competitive with an aging P4P guy, as we all know.You give him too much credit, Amsterdam.

[kg0208]

It's the manner he gets stopped, if he's sparked out easily, say after a few good hits and then a few more to seal it, that showcases a problematic chin, especially for weight jumping against guys like naturally hit harder than Pavlik.

If it takes Pavlik a long time to grind him down like it did Zertuche, then it showcases a sturdy jaw.

Perhaps, perhaps not. There are exceptions.

Either way, getting stopped by a puncher are not signs of a weak chin. There are many levels of chin between weak and granite.

[Amsterdam]

He could have fought Sturm to unify some belts if he wanted to fight an non puncher. And the only belts that matter wouldn't strip him for fighting someone other than Pavlik.

Problem is with that is that Sturm is a fucking pansy and would never fight anyone with a remote pulse after that Castillejo disaster, so that is not an option.

The other option is Abraham, an even worse fight for Taylor's purposes. So you take Abraham, and look like your ducking Pavlik, or jump up in weight and take on some no hoper there as a tune up and look like your ducking Pavlik and Calzaghe, which is a bad combination for the American audience.

He HAD to take Pavlik to save any regard for himself and the undisputed championship.

[MSTR]

Does Pavlik hit hard?
Whats your pick for this fight?

[DanePugilist]

I know he hits hard (I have picked him to win). My point in asking the question is very simple though.

It's suggested here that Pavlik will KO Taylor cuz Taylor has a weak chin. Getting stopped by a KO artist with very good, maybe even great (we don't know) power won't prove Taylor has a weak chin.

People with weak chins get stopped by non punchers. If Hearns KO'd you, it didn't mean you had a weak chin....Hearns had great power and could stop fighters no one else could.People can avoid getting knocked out by KO punchers, if they box smart, have good speed, good defence and bodymovement. Taylor has nothing of the sort, and he would go down unless he has a granite chin, or make the fight very ugly.

Thats my 2 kroner at least.

[kg0208]

Problem is with that is that Sturm is a fucking pansy and would never fight anyone with a remote pulse after that Castillejo disaster, so that is not an option.

The other option is Abraham, an even worse fight for Taylor's purposes. So you take Abraham, and look like your ducking Pavlik, or jump up in weight and take on some no hoper there as a tune up and look like your ducking Pavlik and Calzaghe, which is a bad combination for the American audience.

He HAD to take Pavlik to save any regard for himself and the undisputed championship.

No no, you are adding your opinion of Sturm into the equation to dismiss him. No one knows if he could have fought Sturm. As far as we know, Taylor didn't even LOOK at other MW options...he went straight for Pavlik.

I think you are trying to hard to remove any semblance of credit from Taylor, and while I think Pavlik will beat him, you are exaggerating the circumstances or Taylor's reign far too negatively cuz, well.....you hate him.

[Mind Reader]

Does Pavlik hit hard?

From what Ive seen, I think he does hit pretty hard.

[Amsterdam]

You give him too much credit, Amsterdam.

No, I'm on target. The only A level quality he has shown, even in fights against lesser competition coming up has been athleticism, every other factor is B level or less in regards to Taylor.

Compared to a similiar boxer-puncher style in Mikkel Kessler, who has shown A level in every important factor. I do get annoyed when people claim Taylor is superior just for being competitive with set P4P fighters, when we have comparable film of Taylor against non-P4P's and Kessler against non-P4P's and the performance level is not even in the same stratosphere.

[kg0208]

People can avoid getting knocked out by KO punchers, if they box smart, have good speed, good defence and bodymovement. Taylor has nothing of the sort, and he would go down unless he has a granite chin, or make the fight very ugly.

Thats my 2 kroner at least.

Taylor is easy to find and keeps his hands low. My point is, even if Pavlik KO's him, it won't prove he has a weak chin, though it will prove it's not granite. This is not an either/or situation.

[Mind Reader]

From what Ive seen, I think he does hit pretty hard.

Im interested to see how Taylor can deal with it, I still pick Taylor by UD though.

[kg0208]

Whats your pick for this fight?

I want Taylor to win, but I am picking Pavlik. Taylor still isn't progressing and he and Steward don't even seem to be on the same page (at least in the last fight)

[Amsterdam]

No no, you are adding your opinion of Sturm into the equation to dismiss him. No one knows if he could have fought Sturm. As far as we know, Taylor didn't even LOOK at other MW options...he went straight for Pavlik.

I think you are trying to hard to remove any semblance of credit from Taylor, and while I think Pavlik will beat him, you are exaggerating the circumstances or Taylor's reign far too negatively cuz, well.....you hate him.

But there was no way out of fighting Pavlik. You seem to sometimes like my regard of European fighters in what I assess from them, well, it's not my opinion of Sturm, it's a fact, look at his competition...

And this is a very beatable guy, who anybody would want to scalp, but it's not going to happen with he and his management because he sells and makes a good bit in Germany.

Taylor, or anyone else worth a damn for that matter, could not get a fight with Sturm going for any reason, this is a damned fact, Sturm will fight nobody and continue it for a long time until they are prepared to cash out, because if Taylor is B, then Sturm is B- and bordering, but marketable in Germany.

I am not removing credit, I am trying to explain that if there was an option that could 'save face' other than a dangerous puncher, DiBella, would take that option, but there is no way out of fighting Pavlik without severe repricussions from the media and fans, especially after his two recent performances.

People think that because he was in 2 bouts with Hopkins and fought Wright after that, that he'll fight anybody who brings the most money, that's been one his major selling points, but I don't believe it fact, he HAS to fight Pavlik, his mandatory and first hard hitting MW or he'd get eaten alive.

[psychopath]

1)Yes, thats a fact.

2) Don't believe everything that is fed to you on other sites.

3) Because he can't avoid yet another one. He is loosing popularity, because more and more realize that no. 2 is just an illusion.

You and Amsterdam against some of the well known boxing analyst? :-( :huh :D

Damn brother you got to earn some credibility first. :yep

The fact is Taylor fights the ones who are on the top of the list irregardless if they are punchers or not. If Miranda could have won . . . it's gonna be Miranda vs Taylor now.

Got to live with reality dude . . . not with your false insinuations.

[Mind Reader]

Taylor is easy to find and keeps his hands low. My point is, even if Pavlik KO's him, it won't prove he has a weak chin, though it will prove it's not granite. This is not an either/or situation.

I agree with you, too many people yell "glass chin" too quick just because the fighter's chin isnt Iron.

[psychopath]

But there was no way out of fighting Pavlik. You seem to sometimes like my regard of European fighters in what I assess from them, well, it's not my opinion of Sturm, it's a fact, look at his competition...

And this is a very beatable guy, who anybody would want to scalp, but it's not going to happen with he and his management because he sells and makes a good bit in Germany.

Taylor, or anyone else worth a damn for that matter, could not get a fight with Sturm going for any reason, this is a damned fact, Sturm will fight nobody and continue it for a long time until they are prepared to cash out, because if Taylor is B, then Sturm is B- and bordering, but marketable in Germany.

I am not removing credit, I am trying to explain that if there was an option that could 'save face' other than a dangerous puncher, DiBella, would take that option, but there is no way out of fighting Pavlik without severe repricussions from the media and fans, especially after his two recent performances.

No way? Oh yes there is always a way . . . if Taylor wants to makes excuses. You just don't want to give Taylor credit. :yep

[Amsterdam]

Taylor is easy to find and keeps his hands low. My point is, even if Pavlik KO's him, it won't prove he has a weak chin, though it will prove it's not granite. This is not an either/or situation.

But when Pavlik does KO him, Pavlik is certainly not deserving of a top P4P ranking like some will insist, do you agree with this?

[Mind Reader]

I agree with you, too many people yell "glass chin" too quick just because the fighter's chin isnt Iron.


Especially when the guy he is fighting is an excellent puncher with the kind of KO ratio Pavlik has.

[DanePugilist]

He really has no choice. If he were to duck the mandatory(Pavlik), he'd lose the belts, if he were to drop the belts and jump to 168, after specifically stating that he wants to stay at MW for a few more years as an excuse to give up the 6-7 million he'd earn for fighting Calzaghe in Las Vegas, that would make him look extremely bad and at SMW he'd have to take on someone dangerous or it would look like he was ducking Pavlik.

This is something he couldn't avoid, so he has to give it his best shot and inevitably fail.


Problem is with that is that Sturm is a fucking pansy and would never fight anyone with a remote pulse after that Castillejo disaster, so that is not an option.

The other option is Abraham, an even worse fight for Taylor's purposes. So you take Abraham, and look like your ducking Pavlik, or jump up in weight and take on some no hoper there as a tune up and look like your ducking Pavlik and Calzaghe, which is a bad combination for the American audience.

He HAD to take Pavlik to save any regard for himself and the undisputed championship.

Great posts...

[psychopath]

I agree with you, too many people yell "glass chin" too quick just because the fighter's chin isnt Iron.

That's the eassiest way inject doubt to any fighter. :D Glass chin! :good

[kg0208]

But there was no way out of fighting Pavlik. You seem to sometimes like my regard of European fighters in what I assess from them, well, it's not my opinion of Sturm, it's a fact, look at his competition...

And this is a very beatable guy, who anybody would want to scalp, but it's not going to happen with he and his management because he sells and makes a good bit in Germany.

Taylor, or anyone else worth a damn for that matter, could not get a fight with Sturm going for any reason, this is a damned fact, Sturm will fight nobody and continue it for a long time until they are prepared to cash out, because if Taylor is B, then Sturm is B- and bordering, but marketable in Germany.

I am not removing credit, I am trying to explain that if there was an option that could 'save face' other than a dangerous puncher, DiBella, would take that option, but there is no way out of fighting Pavlik without severe repricussions from the media and fans, especially after his two recent performances.

People think that because he was in 2 bouts with Hopkins and fought Wright after that, that he'll fight anybody who brings the most money, that's been one his major selling points, but I don't believe it fact, he HAS to fight Pavlik, his mandatory and first hard hitting MW or he'd get eaten alive.

I do respect your opinion on Euro fighters. You are not going to sway mine however.

Taylor didn't even attempt to fight another MW, Sturm, Abraham, etc. I don't believe he had to fight Pavlik or anyone else. Facts are things on paper you can prove, not opinions. You already know that I am not going to take your opinion as fact, so there is no point in telling me it's a fact.

Taylor may not be as good as some think, but he is not anywhere near as bad as you make him out to be.

[allenko1]

I'm glad we got less than a week to go.All this bull will cease after Saturday.

[Amsterdam]

No way? Oh yes there is always a way . . . if Taylor wants to makes excuses. You just don't want to give Taylor credit. :yep

I'm just calling it like I see it. After these recent performances, if he did not take on a real MW who could hit, he would have been crucified by the media, because they were already hinting at it after the Spinks bout.

It just so happens that Pavlik is also a mandatory, do the math in this equation now and if he and DiBella found a workable, alternative way instead of fighting Pavlik.

He'd be destroyed by the media and boxing fans, this is truly something unavoidable.

[kg0208]

But when Pavlik does KO him, Pavlik is certainly not deserving of a top P4P ranking like some will insist, do you agree with this?

I do rate Taylor P4P....you know that I do. We differ greatly on that.

If Pavlik stops him in 2-3 rounds, like some here have said, then he would deserve as much consideration as Cotto does, considering that Cotto has never beaten anyone with a belt and is rated as high as #5 on other peoples lists.

[Amsterdam]

I do respect your opinion on Euro fighters. You are not going to sway mine however.

Taylor didn't even attempt to fight another MW, Sturm, Abraham, etc. I don't believe he had to fight Pavlik or anyone else. Facts are things on paper you can prove, not opinions. You already know that I am not going to take your opinion as fact, so there is no point in telling me it's a fact.

Taylor may not be as good as some think, but he is not anywhere near as bad as you make him out to be.

Check my post on the 2nd page, I stated how all of this Taylor hate is just fun and games basically and how they all fall into it.

I really do see that there is no way out of fighting Pavlik without being slayed by the media and fans and there were signs of that before and directly after Spinks. I illustrated how there are no other options for him, in regards to Abraham or Sturm and I am not trying to act as a 'know it all', I am more explaining the situation of Sturm and another European agreed with me in 'DanePugilist', I know Sturm very, very well mate and that's just the situation with him.

And Abraham from a stylistic stand point could possibly be even worse than pressure, due to how he shells and explodes, that'll do a number on Taylor with Abraham's even more serious punching power IMO compared to Pavlik's, which is partially the volume.

So that's okay if you want to believe otherwise, I am here to discuss it with an open mind, so I want you to tell me what exactly Taylor could have done to still be regarded in not taking Pavlik....

Who would he have faced that wouldn't have just gained an uproar against him?

[DanePugilist]

You and Amsterdam against some of the well known boxing analyst? :-( :huh :D

Damn brother you got to earn some credibility first. :yep

The fact is Taylor fights the ones who are on the top of the list irregardless if they are punchers or not. If Miranda could have won . . . it's gonna be Miranda vs Taylor now.

Got to live with reality dude . . . not with your false insinuations.

1) If they can't see what we see, then they are blind, or biased. They will open their eyes, once they see this fight. Then they will just praise Pavlik to cover up their weak analysis.

2) Well as in no. 1, you will give us credit after the Taylor fight - at least I hope, unless you will come on here, and say: "I knew Taylor was shit", or do the no. 1 thing.

3) Then its pretty funny that he has never faced a puncher, and not only that, he has faced every smaller or featherfisted guy he could get away with fighting.

[Amsterdam]

I do rate Taylor P4P....you know that I do. We differ greatly on that.

If Pavlik stops him in 2-3 rounds, like some here have said, then he would deserve as much consideration as Cotto does, considering that Cotto has never beaten anyone with a belt and is rated as high as #5 on other peoples lists.

I agree with the Cotto sentiment, but Cotto is undeserving of a top 5, he's low top 10 or just outside of it and in that case, that is where Pavlik would belong, just outside or just inside IMO, just not an absurd top 5 ranking like some will produce.

[Mind Reader]

Do you know that he has avoided punchers like the plague?

I don't know Dane, I don't know of any evidence of Taylor avoiding anybody.

[psychopath]

I'm just calling it like I see it. After these recent performances, if he did not take on a real MW who could hit, he would have been crucified by the media, because they were already hinting at it after the Spinks bout.

It just so happens that Pavlik is also a mandatory, do the math in this equation now and if he and DiBella found a workable, alternative way instead of fighting Pavlik.

He'd be destroyed by the media and boxing fans, this is truly something unavoidable.

Brother no matter what the media says . . . if a fighter wanted to make excuses then it won't affect him. That's a fact. Just like JMM not fighting Guzman, like JMM not weanting a rematch with Pacquaio 3 years ago, like DLH not wanting to fight PBF again and so on and so forth.

The fight is happening because Taylor wanted it . . . is it that hard for you to accept the fact of the case. :yep

[Amsterdam]

Brother no matter what the media says . . . if a fighter wanted to make excuses then it won't affect him. That's a fact. Just like JMM not fighting Guzman, like JMM not weanting a rematch with Pacquaio 3 years ago, like DLH not wanting to fight PBF again and so on and so forth.

The fight is happening because Taylor wanted it . . . is it that hard for you to accept the fact of the case. :yep

But you see, the difference is that one of Taylor's selling points even with his flaws and boring fights is that 'he fights anybody, anywhere, anytime', for that to be disrupted pretty much brings out a lot of 'Amsterdamic' Taylor logic from a majority and not a minority.

It's really a different situation than a JMM or a DLH, not even close, because JMM and DLH have shown so much class in ability and therefore the 'excuses' ring louder than one that would come from a guy who was at that point being insanely criticised.

JMM's not fighting of Pac came after he gave Pac a near loss, Taylor's excuse would come after struggling with feather fisted guys and recieving the necessary criticism, where as JMM made one of the most incredible 'heroic comebacks' after that first round in recent history.

Plus factor in the people that despise Taylor for the controversial decisions, you just can't compare this stuff at face value.

[psychopath]

1) If they can't see what we see, then they are blind, or biased. They will open their eyes, once they see this fight. Then they will just praise Pavlik to cover up their weak analysis.

2) Well as in no. 1, you will give us credit after the Taylor fight - at least I hope, unless you will come on here, and say: "I knew Taylor was shit", or do the no. 1 thing.

3) Then its pretty funny that he has never faced a puncher, and not only that, he has faced every smaller or featherfisted guy he could get away with fighting.

Yeah right they are biased . . . unlike you? :think

Nah nah nah I never said Taylor was great and Pavlik is SHIT. I picked Taylor to win that's all, but I never spend time to degrade or insult any fighter. And I will never give credit to posters like you and Ams_t who spend time degrading fighters because of HATRED. If Pav wins it doesn't necessarily mean what you have said are all correct anyway. :yep

It's not hard to realize that he has never faced any puncher yet because the fighters on top were not big punchers . . . now Pavlik is the first one . . . isn't that right?

[psychopath]

But you see, the difference is that one of Taylor's selling points even with his flaws and boring fights is that 'he fights anybody, anywhere, anytime', for that to be disrupted pretty much brings out a lot of 'Amsterdamic' Taylor logic from a majority and not a minority.

It's really a different situation than a JMM or a DLH, not even close, because JMM and DLH have shown so much class in ability and therefore the 'excuses' ring louder than one that would come from a guy who was at that point being insanely criticised.

JMM's not fighting of Pac came after he gave Pac a near loss, Taylor's excuse would come after struggling with feather fisted guys and recieving the necessary criticism, where as JMM made one of the most incredible 'heroic comebacks' after that first round in recent history.

Plus factor in the people that despise Taylor for the controversial decisions, you just can't compare this stuff at face value.

Oh yeah? :D Just like Winky refusing a rematch?

The fight is happening because it's the right fight and Taylor wanted it. :yep
That's very short dude . . . he wants to prove naysayers like you are completely wrong. :hey

[Amsterdam]

Oh yeah? :D Just like Winky refusing a rematch?

The fight is happening because it's the right fight and Taylor wanted it. :yep
that's very short dude. :hey

Hard to blame Winky really, you can't get anything even resembling a competitive fight's decision vs. Taylor and he cannot KO Taylor.

Plus, if you will read my recent work on 'circle jerking' within 'names', you will see that Wright, even with his hard work to the top, is still at this point guilty of this.

Tune up against a shot Quartey this time after immense trouble with an unknown in Soliman and then off to the multi-million dollar worthless Hopkins-Wright bout. So it's all relative.

Taylor really couldn't have ducked Pavlik and saved his image, that's actually true considering the hints of an uproar that were going about.

[DanePugilist]

Yeah right they are biased . . . unlike you? :think

Nah nah nah I never said Taylor was great and Pavlik is SHIT. I picked Taylor to win that's all, but I never spend time to degrade or insult any fighter. And I will never give credit to posters like you and Ams_t who spend time degrading fighters because of HATRED. If Pav wins it doesn't necessarily mean what you have said are all correct anyway. :yep

It's not hard to realize that he has never faced any puncher yet because the fighters on top were not big punchers . . . now Pavlik is the first one . . . isn't that right?

1) I am not crowning myself as an expert - I am just giving my take. I never read "experts" opinons on other sites. I really don't care what they have to say, really. I like better to look for myself, and give my own take on the matter.

2) Good way to go about it. That is very honorable. However, I don't hate Taylor, I just feel that people are buying too much into his accomplishments. If people say that he is elite, and I know that he isn't then I respond to it. Don't you. Dont confuse hate with enlightenment.

3) That is right.

[DanePugilist]

I don't know Dane, I don't know of any evidence of Taylor avoiding anybody.Yes, you are right - there is just the evidence of him not facing a ko puncher.

Despite him being big enough to fight at SMW, he fights at MW, and fights smaller guys - at least more often than not.

[cuchulain]

Yes, you are right - there is just the evidence of him not facing a ko puncher.

Despite him being big enough to fight at SMW, he fights at MW, and fights smaller guys - at least more often than not.

Taylor fought Hopkins twice. Hopkins is a big Middlewt with decent power.

He's fighting Pavlik, another big guy with KO power.

What form will your criticisms take if(when) Taylor defeats Pavlik, a good, still developing, B level fighter, by clear UD or very possibly, by stoppage?

[Axe]

I believe that Taylor is not a P4P level fighter, he just happened on the right bouts at the right time. However I do not agree that he is an "overated scumbag" or with any other preposterous claims I've read in this thread; I simply believe that if he does run into a smooth boxer, or a puncher with at least decent accuracy (is Pavlik one of these? we still don't know tbh, as Miranda himself does not know what defence is..) he would lose.

His chances of success at higher weights (I define success on a P4P scale, in terms of beating the #1-#3 at the weights) are very marginal.

[SKULLSPLITTER]

Jermain Taylor takes too much shit, he gets crapped on quite a bit and is a nice guy who still has his belts.

He does and is and has...

Some people mainly hate on Taylor because he has two wins over their boy, Hopkins. This type of fan is known as a "mark". These Johnny come lately fans were told Bernard was great...so they watched a few of his fights and latched onto him as one of their faves.

and their favorite got beat.

You guys know how it goes. It's the same old shit.

That's all there is to it. Taylor is a fighting champion who hasn't ducked anyone. Big deal some close decisions went his way. That happens in Boxing you know...

and for the record....you're not a REAL Hopkins fan unless you watched him come up and liked him before he beat Tito. THAT'S when it was cool to be an X fan.

[bigeddie27]

Well, aside from his official starching coming up by a B level solid pressure fighting boxer-puncher, it probably would not. No Taylor apologist threads tend to come up when the Amsterdam account at ESB makes a Taylor 'realist' thread every so often and generally it's a cool down time and then 3 or 4 Taylor apologist mentality threads tend to pop up.

They of course consist of 'Taylor doesn't deserve this flak', 'Taylor fought the best in his division every fight after he won the titles', 'Like it or not, Taylor is the best in the division', 'Taylor is a proven elite, he'd smash anything not of the elite A class', 'Taylor has never been down, his chin is great', 'Please realist fans, stop bursting our false P4P bubble!:lol: '.

Only a week left, it's starting to get exciting really and that disgrace of a champion will be gone with hardly any avenue's left and his apologist crew will be in shame, some totally annihilated by Sir Zakman and the rest.

Only a week left and one card out of the false deck is removed.;)

its gonna be greart amsterdam when pavlik gets knocked out. i will never let you live this one down as long as you are on this board.

[pipe wrenched]

I agree that Taylor has done his job, i think he won both Hops fights, and he is not to be discredited. But as far as the argument on whether he could have avoided Pav, it's the same scenario as Oleg and Peter. People are all over Maskaev because Peter fought TWO eliminators to get his shot. Now Pavlik has fought TWO eliminators to get his and if Taylor would have fought anyone else, he would have been hammered. Pavlik KO 7.

[ChampionsForever]

We already saw him put on queer street against Hopkins, as a follow up, he was stunned by Winky Wright and to even further this claim, he was bothered by the punches of Ouma and Spinks, not stunned, but wary of them at least.

This shows very much potential chin problems and he's never faced a puncher of any kind.

Queer street?? :lol: I must have missed that bit :lol::lol:, and as for bothered against Spinks and Ouma's punches thats just bullshit, he was BOXING i.e hit and not get hit :good, I cant think of a single fighter who ever got punched and was 100% not "bothered" by it. And if hes chinny and has been avoiding all these heavy hitters then why has this fight been made?? :huh.

You let yourself down bigtime with posts like these, im no Taylor fan but if every guy stepped up to the plate and fought the calibre of opposition he has then every division would have an undisputed #1, so why are you knocking him??

[bigeddie27]

Taylor is unlikely to get a KO when he has struggled in his last three fights to even unload, never mind land.

I expect he'll bring his best performance, but I still see Pavlik winning.
well its hard to unload when you are taylor and....

a: you are fighting hopkins who nullifies every offense there could possibly be by pushing, headbutting, using pitty arm punches (for points and to look good for the judgeS), etc... i mean he is the very definition of 'cagy vet'

b: you are fighting winky wright who - see above hopkins and is a southpaw with a high almost unpenetreble gaurd

c: you are fighting kassim ouma who seems to throw these weak ass arm punches all the time. no power but will defeinetly disrupt your big shots

d: you are fighting cory spinks whos 'run and hit' style will just never make anyone look good. i respect his skills though.

[bigeddie27]

and after watching the countdown, i honestly have to say, pavlik winning the title would be something else. I mean this dude seems like one of your boys who would be fighting if they were going for the middleweight championship. Eats dinner at his parents, trains in his hometown, has the same trainer that he has had since he was 9, i mean he is one down to earth dude. Even though i have posted on here and belive that taylor will win by ko, i really dont care who wins this fight.

[Zakman]

You let yourself down bigtime with posts like these, im no Taylor fan but if every guy stepped up to the plate and fought the calibre of opposition he has then every division would have an undisputed #1, so why are you knocking him??
Why are people knocking him?? Gee, it might have something to do with those THREE GIFT DECISIONS In A Row he got against Hopkins and Wright.:patsch

Some of us don't like when powerful TV networks use their influence to take titles away from ATG champs, and give 'em to their latest hype-job.:fire

Saturday, those wrongs will be righted by Kelly Pavlik! :happy

[Amsterdam]

Queer street?? :lol: I must have missed that bit :lol::lol:, and as for bothered against Spinks and Ouma's punches thats just bullshit, he was BOXING i.e hit and not get hit :good, I cant think of a single fighter who ever got punched and was 100% not "bothered" by it. And if hes chinny and has been avoiding all these heavy hitters then why has this fight been made?? :huh.

You let yourself down bigtime with posts like these, im no Taylor fan but if every guy stepped up to the plate and fought the calibre of opposition he has then every division would have an undisputed #1, so why are you knocking him??

I thought I gave my take on why Pavlik-Taylor was unavoidable.

[ChampionsForever]

Why are people knocking him?? Gee, it might have something to do with those THREE GIFT DECISIONS In A Row he got against Hopkins and Wright.:patsch

Some of us don't like when powerful TV networks use their influence to take titles away from ATG champs, and give 'em to their latest hype-job.:fire

Saturday, those wrongs will be righted by Kelly Pavlik! :happy

Your'e right, the whole thing is a conspiricy!! By the way whats your take on the moon landing?? and the second gunmen with JFK?? Its the fucking government!!!!!!!

Weird that the hype job who gets gift decisions gets chosen to fight the hardest competition in every fight aint it, they can get the decision hes way yet they can't let him have easy fights?? man thats hard to beleive but hey you said it so it must be true.

[Jack]

I don't understand why people think HBO has got so much power. I really doubt they fix fights. If they did some some, why would you get results like De La Hoya losing to Mayweather. The biggest draw in boxing losing to a guy who can't draw flies to warm shit. Surely HBO would want to fix this one?

at the end of the day, all three fights were close. I scored the two Hopkins fights both to Taylor and had the Wright fight going to Winky. All three were fights that could have gone either way.

Let's cut the crap about HBO fixing bouts. It's nonsense. So many fights have gone against them in recent years, but three wins for Taylor, which could have gone either way, means they fix fights? Rubbish.

[unclepaulie]

Weird that the hype job who gets gift decisions gets chosen to fight the hardest competition in every fight aint it, they can get the decision hes way yet they can't let him have easy fights?? man thats hard to beleive but hey you said it so it must be true. [/QUOTE]

cory spinks and kassim ouma, when there was a rematch with winky, or a unification with abraham or castillejo (before he got beat by sturm)?

[Zakman]

Weird that the hype job who gets gift decisions gets chosen to fight the hardest competition in every fight aint it, they can get the decision hes way yet they can't let him have easy fights?? man thats hard to beleive but hey you said it so it must be true.

If you're calling light-hitting welterweights and junior middleweights the "hardest competition" for a middleweight fighter, we just have different definition of "hard competition," I guess!:yep

[Ramshall1]

the only problem I have with JT is his craptacular performance against Spinks. . . other than that, theres nothing to hate on.

[robert40]

This morning I sent a "Good luck" email to Kelly Pavlik. By this afternoon I already had a response. With less then a week to the biggest fight of his career to acknowledge a fan? I'm impressed!

[cuchulain]

Amsterdam has no clue as to where queer street is and Zakman doesn't know the definition of gift.

(If anyone was ever on queer street, what does that say about Bernard if he can't finish him off?)

[Amsterdam]

Amsterdam has no clue as to where queer street is and Zakman doesn't know the definition of gift.

(If anyone was ever on queer street, what does that say about Bernard if he can't finish him off?)

Bernard is a horrible finisher, this is common knowledge, just not one of Hopkins' strengths.

[sues2nd]

Bernard is a horrible finisher, this is common knowledge, just not one of Hopkins' strengths.

This version of Bernard your 100% correct. BUT!!!! Young Hopkins was....for lack of better words....an Executioner.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Why are people knocking him?? Gee, it might have something to do with those THREE GIFT DECISIONS In A Row he got against Hopkins and Wright.:patsch

Some of us don't like when powerful TV networks use their influence to take titles away from ATG champs, and give 'em to their latest hype-job.:fire

Saturday, those wrongs will be righted by Kelly Pavlik! :happy

Like I said, quit gioving money to that network that is hyping Taylor. Quit being a part of the problem and be a part of thw solution. BOYCOTT HBO if you hate HBO boxing so much you take it out on the fighter who ISN'T doing anything but fighting top guys. :deal

[cuchulain]

Bernard knows how to finish guys off, he just hasn't been in a position to do it in his last series of fights.

Taylor was never on queer street against B-Hop, another piece of bullshit from Sigfried, not to mention his little queer bastard of a son, Zakman

No need for the personal vitriol, Blocky.

You can disagree with the guy without starting in on his mamma.

(It just hurts your own status on the forum)

[audio101]

What evidence is that? Has he been dropped? Knocked out? Has he been wobbled repeatedly? Or are you basing that on his competition somehow?

He hasn't really fought any hard punchers, Spinks and Winky???:fight

[audio101]

and after watching the countdown, i honestly have to say, pavlik winning the title would be something else. I mean this dude seems like one of your boys who would be fighting if they were going for the middleweight championship. Eats dinner at his parents, trains in his hometown, has the same trainer that he has had since he was 9, i mean he is one down to earth dude. Even though i have posted on here and belive that taylor will win by ko, i really dont care who wins this fight.

Huh? Pavlik handled Miranda's power with no problem yet Taylor will KO him? Come on now thats the worst prediction you could make. Your opinion pretty much means nothing now...:patsch

[Lance_Uppercut]

He hasn't really fought any hard punchers, Spinks and Winky???:fight

That's not proof. It only has meaning to you because you're assigning it. Boxing isn't about searching for the heaviest hitters. It's usually only a matter of time before some KO artist gets oxposed as a one dimensional head hunter.

[Lance_Uppercut]

We already saw him put on queer street against Hopkins, as a follow up, he was stunned by Winky Wright and to even further this claim, he was bothered by the punches of Ouma and Spinks, not stunned, but wary of them at least.

This shows very much potential chin problems and he's never faced a puncher of any kind.

You exagerrate terribly. :patsch

[nervousxtian]

Amsterdam starting another Taylor thread?

No fucking way.

[nervousxtian]

You exagerrate terribly. :patsch

Why do we entertain this fucker anymore?

I guess it's how you just can't let a dipshit make shit up and call it fact... but it's not worth it. This kid just likes to start shit, and this board doesn't have the balls to ban fuckers who spam the board with this bullshit.

[Amsterdam]

Why do we entertain this fucker anymore?

I guess it's how you just can't let a dipshit make shit up and call it fact... but it's not worth it. This kid just likes to start shit, and this board doesn't have the balls to ban fuckers who spam the board with this bullshit.

I am a moderator. Second, I am not a kid, third - read the 2nd page and fourth - I don't expect any less from you than the above.:good

[psychopath]

I am a moderator. Second, I am not a kid, third - read the 2nd page and fourth - I don't expect any less from you than the above.:good

Yeah right buddy . . . you're a moderator. And that's more shame for you for acting up like an immature kid who's obssesed with his HATRED THREADS. :yep

:good :hi:

[KO Boxing]

I'm tipping Taylor in a good action fight... If both are only B to B+ fighters, then we have two fighters on nearly the same level duking it out. And for all the flaws in Taylor, Pavlik has just as many, if not more.

However, someone's entire credibility is put on the line this saturday. :lol:

Good luck. :yep

[KO Boxing]

Going WAAY of topic and on a bit of a tangent, being a moderator is fairly similar to being a long-time poster... Why do people automatically assume that someone who has only registered on THIS particular site and posted for say, a month (with 15 posts), is a NOOB with no knowledge... Maybe a noob to this site, of all places, but who knows... These so called unknoweldgable noobs could have been watching boxing longer than any of us and have forgotten more than most of us know.

I can GUARANTEE you that there is at least one poster with less than 100 posts on here that is more knowlegeable than some of the "5000 +" posters.

[nervousxtian]

I am a moderator. Second, I am not a kid, third - read the 2nd page and fourth - I don't expect any less from you than the above.:good

You act like a kid, and you make shit up, and you spam the boards.

I don't take any of that back, because it's all true.

[MrStayman]

Taylor apologism has not ended, but only because of a radical minority. Most boxing enthusiasts understand that Taylor's early career masked his true qualities, both inside and outside the ring. Shortly after his pro debut, he was perceived as an exciting fighter who could revive the middleweight division. His hype train did not last long; Winky Wright, Kassim Ouma, Cory Spinks, and Larry Merchant have exposed Taylor as a technically flawed, boring fighter who only cares about money. It is clear that most people are now against him. Even in his home town, he can't break abysmal attendance and is mocked on the radio (see: taylor-pavlik countdown). Of course, there are still those who think highly of Taylor, but then again there are those who still think highly of Jeff Lacy.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Taylor apologism has not ended, but only because of a radical minority. Most boxing enthusiasts understand that Taylor's early career masked his true qualities, both inside and outside the ring. Shortly after his pro debut, he was perceived as an exciting fighter who could revive the middleweight division. His hype train did not last long; Winky Wright, Kassim Ouma, Cory Spinks, and Larry Merchant have exposed Taylor as a technically flawed, boring fighter who only cares about money. It is clear that most people are now against him. Even in his home town, he can't break abysmal attendance and is mocked on the radio (see: taylor-pavlik countdown). Of course, there are still those who think highly of Taylor, but then again there are those who still think highly of Jeff Lacy.

How so? If that was true, he would have stuck with fighting chumps. Instead, the past 4-5 fighters are probably better then anyone else's recent comp. And he also probaby wouldn't be facing a dangerous foe now would he?

[MrStayman]

How so? If that was true, he would have stuck with fighting chumps. Instead, the past 4-5 fighters are probably better then anyone else's recent comp. And he also probaby wouldn't be facing a dangerous foe now would he?
Taylor all but said it himself.

The past 4-5 fighters also brought him the most money. When asked if he would fight Pavlik by Larry Merchant, he responded "If Kelly Pavlik is the best fighter out there, for the most money, we goin for Kelly Pavlik. Whoever else who wanna fight, for the most money, that's who we gonna do baby." After Merchant pressured him he said "if somebody else [will fight me] for more money, yes Larry, I'm gonna fight for more money."
So, if Spinks wanted a rematch and paid more money than HBO gave Taylor for Pavlik-Taylor, we could very well be watching (or lack thereof) Taylor-Spinks II this Saturday.

Link: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Cruiser1]

I couldn't score the Taylor/Spinks fight. You gotta be awake to score a fight. I still haven't watched past the 3rd round. Just can't do it. I hope Pavlik just rids us of Jermain "David Blaine" Taylor.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Taylor all but said it himself.

The past 4-5 fighters also brought him the most money. When asked if he would fight Pavlik by Larry Merchant, he responded "If Kelly Pavlik is the best fighter out there, for the most money, we goin for Kelly Pavlik. Whoever else who wanna fight, for the most money, that's who we gonna do baby." After Merchant pressured him he said "if somebody else [will fight me] for more money, yes Larry, I'm gonna fight for more money."
So, if Spinks wanted a rematch and paid more money than HBO gave Taylor for Pavlik-Taylor, we could very well be watching (or lack thereof) Taylor-Spinks II this Saturday.

Link: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Well shit, ALL fighters are looking to maximize their purse for every fight. IT's called PRIZEFIGHTING for a reason, the prize is money. You just made it sound like he's ONLY looking for money, which is untrue with the fighters he's faced. Ou don't face the guys he's fought if yo ONLY want money.

And we're NOT watching Taylor - Spinks II, so that's pointless to say what would have happened. YOU have to take what fighters say at face value, not as some rule they live by. Do you think we'd see Taylor vs. Manny Pac, Zab Judah, or Evander Holyfield just becuase they promised more money? I think it's doubtful.