Another Shogun vs Machida Type of Decision?

[rekcutnevets]

Joe Rogan seemed pretty certain of it. Rogan felt that Vera clearly won that fight. I'll be honest, I scored it for Vera as well, but I would rather watch it on my television instead of the tiny window in which I viewed the fight on my computer before giving my verdict with confidence.

I still believe that the 3rd round was very close. Couture controlled most of the round, scored some nice shots on Vera, and looked more capable of finishing at the end. I had no problems with the judges' scoring of this fight.

[lobk]

Ihad t for Vera also. Randy just had him presed against the fence but didn't do crap other then being the stronger guy.

[Beebs]

I didn't get the impression Rogan thought Vera won. Came down to round 3, and Rogan said it could go either way, which it could have.

[jrow]

it was close,but i think vera took it but you cant complain when you leave it in the hands of the judges

[jimmie]

As a Couture fan ill admitt I thought Vera won by the 3rd round round was really close could have went either way. Shogun-Machida it is not.

[Chucky]

Joe Rogan seemed pretty certain of it. Rogan felt that Vera clearly won that fight. I'll be honest, I scored it for Vera as well, but I would rather watch it on my television instead of the tiny window in which I viewed the fight on my computer before giving my verdict with confidence.

I still believe that the 3rd round was very close. Couture controlled most of the round, scored some nice shots on Vera, and looked more capable of finishing at the end. I had no problems with the judges' scoring of this fight.

Other than when Vera landed that punch/knee/kick in the second round, what do you guys think HE did to deserve the fight?:huh

[paloalto00]

Vera won round 1 and 2, 3 was a toss up. But bullshit call indeed.

[tri-pod]

I saw Couture taking that fight easily, he was making Vera fight his fight.


Even when Vera had full mount Couture was in control. All I give him is round 2.

[Monoxide]

I thought Vera won round 2 and 3. Round 3 he won with a few strikes and the mount. The mount is a much better position than cage humping. As long as Couture cage humps they should put him on the undercards. Neither really went for it but Vera actually came closer to ending the fight.

[Nosbor]

Basically an even fight. However more fans want to see Couture fight for a title one last time so he naturally got the benefit of the doubt. Couture also generates more revenue for Zuffa. Quite simple really!

Plus Vera looks/has disturbing manerisms, soooo... I have no problem with the outcome.

[socrates]

very subjective! pretty even fight really,you got to hand it to couture though the guys mid forties,and still competing with the young tigers, and at 205! legend indeed.

[rekcutnevets]

Posted by Beebs
I didn't get the impression Rogan thought Vera won.
Didn't he tell Vera he was surprised by the score, and thought Vera did enough to win while he was interviewing him after the fight?

[Slothrop]

Man I don't know how the fuck they score MMA. Vera got the better shots in, but it seemed that Randy controlled most of the fight. Who knows.

[Polymath]

Vera won round 1 and 2, 3 was a toss up. But bullshit call indeed.

Rd 1 was a dominant round...for Couture. 2 i Gave to Vera and 3 was close.

As for scoring generally, landing a damaging strike is all well and good, but if you get controlled for the other 4.59 its hard to win a round.

[nfc90210]

A soon as the fight ended I turned to my brother and said, "I have no idea how you would score that."

It really depends on what you were looking for. It really was a close fight.

[AJAX]

randy implemented the "Pin & Win" stategy. Vera will have a sore back today after being pinned for so long against the cage.

[jimmie]

Rewatched it last night alone and sobered up a bit and wound of giving Randy the 3rd. Vera aside from the takedown which took him straight into mount for a brief period of time id say Randy won about 4:40 of that round he in that round dominated with the clinch, dirty boxing, clinch range elbows and hell in this round he had put together good hand combos and early on appeared to slighty hurt Vera. I of course gave the 2nd to Vera because of the KD but heck if you take that KD out and the brief takedown Randy was in control this entire fight although it wasnt his most impressive bout. Vera and Rogan never spoke after the fight and all Rogan said was something like Randy do you think your clinch control is why you got the decision ?

[jimmie]

Another thing if Vera had actually worked in the clinch he may have got the decision but he mostly just stood there while Randy was throwing knees,looking for trips,lifting up a leg for singles etc. I like Vera but he doesnt work hard enough in close fights the same happened with Sylvia and Jardine all 3 of these fights he could have won if he stepped it up.

[Beebs]

Didn't he tell Vera he was surprised by the score, and thought Vera did enough to win while he was interviewing him after the fight?



Don't remember, but he does that with most close fights. During the fight he was pro Randy if anything, not nearly like he was with Shogun. He did point out, accurately, that Vera was hurting Randy with strikes, but also pointing out that Randy was damaging Vera on the cage; he stressed this a little more, maybe because he was biased for Couture or, what I think, emphasizing the difference between being worked over on the cage on like that by Randy compared to anybody else.

That's also what makes it hard for me to score; if that's not Randy doing the cage work Vera wins the rounds, but Randy honestly does more damage there than anybody; does that make it enough? Tough to say.

[BewareofDawg]

Other than when Vera landed that punch/knee/kick in the second round, what do you guys think HE did to deserve the fight?:huh
He definitely won the second round, at one point Couture turned, got in a fetal position and fell down. Even the 1st was close, Couture controlled him but never did any damage or secured a takedown. then the 3rd round he took couture down and MOUNTED HIM.. Vera won. :deal

[sugarngold]

I thought Rogan was out of line by stating this fight was a robbery. It was a close fight no doubt. Vera put on a great fight - but Randy dominated the action in round one. Round two saw Vera win the round by damaging Randy to the body and knocking him down. Round three Randy landed the better punches in all of the exchanges. Vera hurt him to the body again with a kick - but Randy came right back with the riposte by scoring with more punches - never letting Vera steal the momentum. Vera finally tripped Randy down and scored the mount - but Randy escaped. They traded to the final bell. Good rough fight. Good showing by both men. Very close. I thought Randy deserved the decision.

[bored]

Don't know how to score that last round, watching it live I thought Randy won, now I'm not sure. Vera did well to get to mount and hit Randy with some great kicks but Randy controlled most of the round, I'm not going to criticise judges when I've seen it twice and still can't make my mind up who won.

[jimmie]

I thought Rogan was out of line by stating this fight was a robbery. It was a close fight no doubt. Vera put on a great fight - but Randy dominated the action in round one. Round two saw Vera win the round by damaging Randy to the body and knocking him down. Round three Randy landed the better punches in all of the exchanges. Vera hurt him to the body again with a kick - but Randy came right back with the riposte by scoring with more punches - never letting Vera steal the momentum. Vera finally tripped Randy down and scored the mount - but Randy escaped. They traded to the final bell. Good rough fight. Good showing by both men. Very close. I thought Randy deserved the decision.

Where did Rogan say this was a robbery ?

[sugarngold]

Rogan stated that he thought Vera won while interviewing Vera - then at the end of the show - he basically outright stated as much sighting this fight and the Machida/Shogun fight as examples of judges being unable to judge MMA.

[Beebs]

Rogan stated that he thought Vera won while interviewing Vera - then at the end of the show - he basically outright stated as much sighting this fight and the Machida/Shogun fight as examples of judges being unable to judge MMA.

Oh, I switched over to boxing store that. That is really odd, because he was slightly pro Randy during the fight itself. It was not a robbery, but I certainly see the argument for Vera.

[rekcutnevets]

Posted by sugarngold
Rogan stated that he thought Vera won while interviewing Vera - then at the end of the show - he basically outright stated as much sighting this fight and the Machida/Shogun fight as examples of judges being unable to judge MMA.
Glad someone else caught that. I was adding up points in the prediction thread while this was going on, but I was sure I heard what I heard. I watched the fight live online, and didn't see the tv broadcast. I was afraid it got edited out.

[Monoxide]

Yeah they didn't show it on the SpikeTV broadcast. It was only on the live version. Rogan seemed pretty convinced that Vera won the decision and Vera said something like "Yea...Thanks Judges." lol

[rekcutnevets]

Joe Rogan
I think we’ve had a number of problems with judging in MMA and I think this was another example of that.[Only registered and activated users can see links]

As I stated in my opening post, I scored the fight for Vera but understand it going in Couture's favor. I do not think this fight's decision should be held against the judges.

[G.A.V.]

It was a crap fight and I wouldn't take time out of my day to try and fathom who did better, not enough time to sit around and read these forums, see.

[tri-pod]

He definitely won the second round, at one point Couture turned, got in a fetal position and fell down. Even the 1st was close, Couture controlled him but never did any damage or secured a takedown. then the 3rd round he took couture down and MOUNTED HIM.. Vera won. :deal


At the break between rounds 2 and 3 I think it was, you can hear Couture's corner telling him to keep making Vera think your going for the take down, so it was never Randy's plan to get the take down I don't think.

And what happened when Vera had the mount? Nothing at all! Couture was even controlling him in his own mount. Vera played right in to Randy's game the whole fight, except round two when he had that explosive moment and got the KD on Randy.

The judges scored it right with 29-28 across the board. I gave 1st round Randy, 2nd round Vera, and 3rd Round Randy.

[chimba]

Vera needs to stop fighting because he really doesnt want to. And his fucking cardio sucks ass. My God what kind of training does he do??

This is the biggest waste of talent in MMA, but he talks so damn much. Everytime this guy lets go of his hands and feet someone gets hurt.. Sylvia, Werdum, Jardine but he has a quota for kicks during a fight, I think its 2 per round. 6 total

I gave it to Randy 3-0. Ones a fighter, ones ..I dont know what the fuck he is

[jimmie]

Vera needs to stop fighting because he really doesnt want to. And his fucking cardio sucks ass. My God what kind of training does he do??

This is the biggest waste of talent in MMA, but he talks so damn much. Everytime this guy lets go of his hands and feet someone gets hurt.. Sylvia, Werdum, Jardine but he has a quota for kicks during a fight, I think its 2 per round. 6 total

I gave it to Randy 3-0. Ones a fighter, ones ..I dont know what the fuck he is

I mentioned that earlier the guy just doesnt work hard enough in his fights and apparently his training. IMO if he really stepped it up he would have one loss right now to Werdum. You cant teach determination though and Randy Couture has always had that regardless of whatever some assholes will say about him. Randy 46 years old and still a bad motherfucker but im waiting for someone to say his record is 17-10 so he is overatted and sucks.

[Beebs]

Vera is a great striker, a very good defensive wrestler (maybe offensively too, I haven't seen), and a very good BJJ guy; his problem is putting it together.

[chimba]

I mentioned that earlier the guy just doesnt work hard enough in his fights and apparently his training. IMO if he really stepped it up he would have one loss right now to Werdum. You cant teach determination though and Randy Couture has always had that regardless of whatever some assholes will say about him. Randy 46 years old and still a bad motherfucker but im waiting for someone to say his record is 17-10 so he is overatted and sucks.

Even in the werdum fight he got werdum rocked standing up.. seriously, hes become so frustrating to watch he should just quit.

or better yet someone should just knock him out flat. Another frustrating thing is hes got a good chin so i cant hope for that happening

[tri-pod]

Vera needs to stop fighting because he really doesnt want to. And his fucking cardio sucks ass. My God what kind of training does he do??

This is the biggest waste of talent in MMA, but he talks so damn much. Everytime this guy lets go of his hands and feet someone gets hurt.. Sylvia, Werdum, Jardine but he has a quota for kicks during a fight, I think its 2 per round. 6 total

I gave it to Randy 3-0. Ones a fighter, ones ..I dont know what the fuck he is

:nod He is like the Zab Judah of MMA.

All that talent wasted.

[Rangersfan1982]

I was there and all the people around me was shocked when they called Randy's name. I'm a big Couture fan and I thought Verra won the fight.

[chimba]

:nod He is like the Zab Judah of MMA.

All that talent wasted.

But Judah does the chicken dance. So in a way, it doesnt gall you as much coz he does get what he deserves sometimes. Vera loses close fight or controversial ones liek the Werdum fight. He needs to get layed out

[tri-pod]

But Judah does the chicken dance. So in a way, it doesnt gall you as much coz he does get what he deserves sometimes. Vera loses close fight or controversial ones liek the Werdum fight. He needs to get laid out

Tell him to move up to heavyweight and feed him to Lesnar. :deal

[achillesthegreat]

2 rounds to 1 was not a poor decision at all. This was not a robbery.

[jimmie]

2 rounds to 1 was not a poor decision at all. This was not a robbery.

Yup its only a robbery when you can say the losing CLEARLY won 2 of the 3 rounds. The 1st 2 rounds are split as we know then you get to the 3rd and Couture controls most of it from the clinch but also kinda whoops Vera with alot of dirty boxing, good clinch range elbows and some decent hand combos. Vera has the TD straight into a brief mount where he did no damage. Credit to Vera for taking it where he wanted to, could go either way but Randy got it.

[achillesthegreat]

Yup its only a robbery when you can say the losing CLEARLY won 2 of the 3 rounds. The 1st 2 rounds are split as we know then you get to the 3rd and Couture controls most of it from the clinch but also kinda whoops Vera with alot of dirty boxing, good clinch range elbows and some decent hand combos. Vera has the TD straight into a brief mount where he did no damage. Credit to Vera for taking it where he wanted to, could go either way but Randy got it.

I thought Couture controlled it from the clinch. It was Hopkinsesque. He's old and he controlled the fight. Never let it become a young mans fight based on durability, speed, reflexes etc Got close and dirty boxed him. Other than the kicks to the midsection and a few moments at the end of the fight, I didn't think Vera did well at all. The kicks were brillant but his brief mount was not really impressive. It was only cos the nothing happened that it is being noticed.

[jimmie]

I thought Couture controlled it from the clinch. It was Hopkinsesque. He's old and he controlled the fight. Never let it become a young mans fight based on durability, speed, reflexes etc Got close and dirty boxed him. Other than the kicks to the midsection and a few moments at the end of the fight, I didn't think Vera did well at all. The kicks were brillant but his brief mount was not really impressive. It was only cos the nothing happened that it is being noticed.

Yeah the mount isnt very impressive but its not even like he had to use technique to pass Randy's guard, the takedown brought him straight into the mount where he literally did nothing and Randy rolled out of it with ease. Brandon's whole fight really was the takedown with the 5 secound mount and one good kick that resulted in a KD and Randy recovered quickly from that. Randy controlled a good 13 minutes atleast of the 15 minute fight. Clinch fighting is apart of fighting and regardless of what people say he didnt just pin him agianst the fence. Randy was looking for single legs, trips, kneeing, elbows and overall control, setting his pace and trying to wear his man out. Strategy was his basis for doing that and it was effective enough to keep Randy relevant in this divison for now atleast.