Thiago Tavares won fight versus Griffin

[rekcutnevets]

I gave Griffin the first round, the next two to Tavares. Tavares was the attacker those rounds, and Griffin was the one that had to survive numerous submission attempts. Several times Tavares looked close to finishing Griffin. Griffin never looked close to finishing Tavares.

Griffin did slam Tavares on his head, while Tavares had his back. I will give him cool points for that, but not the round.

I think the fight was very close, but scores of 30-27 for Griffin are insane.

I think the judges were either more impressed by Griffin's escaping or his higher strike output.

Escaping should get some credit, but Tavares kept putting Griffin back in jeopardy. Had Griffin been escaping to put Tavares in Jeopardy, I would have given him the 2nd or 3rd round.

Griffin's strikes were only effective in the first, which I awarded Griffin that round. They were not as meaningful as the grappling in the other two.

Other than the decision, it was a very good fight.

[theunderdog]

I gave Griffin the first round, the next two to Tavares. Tavares was the attacker those rounds, and Griffin was the one that had to survive numerous submission attempts. Several times Tavares looked close to finishing Griffin. Griffin never looked close to finishing Tavares.

Griffin did slam Tavares on his head, while Tavares had his back. I will give him cool points for that, but not the round.

I think the fight was very close, but scores of 30-27 for Griffin are insane.

I think the judges were either more impressed by Griffin's escaping or his higher strike output.

Escaping should get some credit, but Tavares kept putting Griffin back in jeopardy. Had Griffin been escaping to put Tavares in Jeopardy, I would have given him the 2nd or 3rd round.

Griffin's strikes were only effective in the first, which I awarded Griffin that round. They were not as meaningful as the grappling in the other two.

Other than the decision, it was a very good fight.

the ufc judges value escapes rather than great submission attempts. taht's just how it goes

[scurlaruntings]

Apart from shogun griffin this was the best fight for me on the card. Tyson is like a slippery eel! That kid canget out of any sub attempt.It was a pleasure to wacth some great aggresive grappling. Shame Tavares came off worst off but Griffin really deserved that win.

[achillesthegreat]

That was an amazing fight but Griffin was the winner, no doubt.

[ufoalf]

the ufc judges value escapes rather than great submission attempts. taht's just how it goes

Which is complete bullshit.

[amhlilhaus]

That was an amazing fight but Griffin was the winner, no doubt.

no, there's plenty of doubt, that's why theres a thread about it. submission attempts are like having your opponent on the ropes, and should be rewarded, if the guy was so clearly dominant then why was he defending submissions in the first place? but ultimately when it comes to judges, you're taking huge risk, since who knows what they like and more than possibly they're incompetent or bribed.

[Donut62]

the ufc judges value escapes rather than great submission attempts. taht's just how it goes

They don't value them more, they just cancel each other out. Unless you get a solid catch like Diego's triangle that won him round 3 in their match, I think they way they score is correct. Ju-Jitsu isn't just about attempting submissions, but also about avoiding them. If a guy goes for a choke, but the other guys defends correctly, how can you value one over the other? If those attempts cancel each other out, which they did in that fight, we go to who held dominant position and who did the most damage which would easily give Griffin Round 1 and 3 in my book.

[rekcutnevets]

You make a valid argument, Donut62.

I don't think that it always that simple. When you defend against one tecnique it is one thing. When you are defending against one attempt after another, and you are not able to attempt as many, I think the one with the most attempts is winning. It gives the impression that the submition attemptor is wearing down the submitee. As though the one escaping would eventually stop escaping if the fight were to continue without time limits.

I felt that Griffin was under attack, and on the defense, more of the 2nd and 3rd rounds than not. That is why I said I felt that Tavares won.

I understand people disagreeing with my pick as the winner, but I think a 30-27 score was ridiculous.

[achillesthegreat]

no, there's plenty of doubt, that's why theres a thread about it. submission attempts are like having your opponent on the ropes, and should be rewarded, if the guy was so clearly dominant then why was he defending submissions in the first place? but ultimately when it comes to judges, you're taking huge risk, since who knows what they like and more than possibly they're incompetent or bribed.
I see no doubt. I think it was only the third round that was close.

[Donut62]

I understand people disagreeing with my pick as the winner, but I think a 30-27 score was ridiculous.

Agree that 30-27 was way out of the ball park. Personally I scored the last round a 10-10 as well, making the fight a draw, but if I had to name a winner that round I would have picked Griffin.

[jimmie]

Who else just loves Tyson Griffin whoever he fights it exicting.

[Beebs]

no, there's plenty of doubt, that's why theres a thread about it. submission attempts are like having your opponent on the ropes, and should be rewarded, if the guy was so clearly dominant then why was he defending submissions in the first place? but ultimately when it comes to judges, you're taking huge risk, since who knows what they like and more than possibly they're incompetent or bribed.

It's not a matter of submission attempts vs submission escapes, its a matter of submission attempts vs punishing your opponent.

Had Tavares not been battered whenever he missed, he would have won, but Tyson didn't just escape, he dropped him on his head, rained down hammerfists, basically made Tavares pay for every miss.

A submission attempt is still a failed move, it should count certainly, but when you miss a sub, the other guy is no worse off than before, whereas when the guy drops you on your dome and punches you, your are worse off than before.

[Beebs]

Having just watched that again, I think 30-27 is not an unreasonable score.

Tyson clearly won the first 2, the only thing that really was close to locked up was the omaplata, which is a low percentage submission, the first time Tavares was on the back, he got put into guard and hammered on, the second time he got dropped very hard on his head and then pounded on, both those exchanges go to Tyson.

The third was mostly scrambles, Tavares probably avoided enough punishment to get it with the takedowns, but giving it to Tyson would be just fine with me, he inflicted more damage, thats for sure.

[theunderdog]

Which is complete bullshit.

definitely. it takes more talent to trap an opponent than to get out of a submision. sometimes escapes take no talent at all, some guys just power out of it and the judges eat it up. sad really, but that's just how it goes, even the crowd reacts that way. tavares gets griffin into a near submission and they are silent, maybe some do not understand the skill it takes to get to that position, then when griffin escapes, the the audience pops.

[ufoalf]

definitely. it takes more talent to trap an opponent than to get out of a submision. sometimes escapes take no talent at all, some guys just power out of it and the judges eat it up. sad really, but that's just how it goes, even the crowd reacts that way. tavares gets griffin into a near submission and they are silent, maybe some do not understand the skill it takes to get to that position, then when griffin escapes, the the audience pops.

Thats why I picked Sanchez over Fitch. Cause people seem to be impressed by someone being on top. In their mind its a winning position. In reality its pretty much as even as standing up. The shit that Sanchez was pulling off was slick as hell but noone seemed to notice. Going from armbar attempt to triangle while folded in half is nuts. Sometimes I wonder if all the judges saw was that Fitch was in "dominant" position controlling Sanchez while the latter was wabling around helplessly...

[theunderdog]

Thats why I picked Sanchez over Fitch. Cause people seem to be impressed by someone being on top. In their mind its a winning position. In reality its pretty much as even as standing up. The shit that Sanchez was pulling off was slick as hell but noone seemed to notice. Going from armbar attempt to triangle while folded in half is nuts. Sometimes I wonder if all the judges saw was that Fitch was in "dominant" position controlling Sanchez while the latter was wabling around helplessly...

the ufc should really try to make a more rigid scoring system. the 10-point must is a striking only system as rogan pointed out. a won round is a 10-9, a round with a kd is a 10-8 so on and so forth. this just does not cut it for mma. i have no idea what system they should come up with. i'll think it over the next few days but i know for a fact that the 10 point must system does not fit mma

[ufoalf]

the ufc should really try to make a more rigid scoring system. the 10-point must is a striking only system as rogan pointed out. a won round is a 10-9, a round with a kd is a 10-8 so on and so forth. this just does not cut it for mma. i have no idea what system they should come up with. i'll think it over the next few days but i know for a fact that the 10 point must system does not fit mma
True. Plus, i dunno about now but couple years ago they were hiring boxing judges left and right so um... I wonder which way they would be biased :roll:/

[Burundanga]

Griffin won this fight but he definitely lost to Guida....

[Koa]

Well, with Dana White taking shots at boxing every chance he gets, a different scoring system should be put in place.

I think takedowns are some swaying factors, but at the same time a takedown should only be worth a shit if you can capitalize on the takedown.. If a guy gets something like a triangle attempt and nearly chokes his opponent out, he should get some credit for it even if he was taken down.

Guys like big Nog do some of their best work from the bottom. If a striker is rocked and takes his opponent down simply to get a breather, he probably shouldn't get much credit for his takedown unless he is putting in work..

[Beebs]

I don't see whats so wrong with the 10 point must system, I mean, what are the other options? Fights will always haved to be judged round by round in the US, its just the way it is, and it helps to prevent corruption.

[ufoalf]

I don't see whats so wrong with the 10 point must system, I mean, what are the other options? Fights will always haved to be judged round by round in the US, its just the way it is, and it helps to prevent corruption.

It definitely doesn't prevent corruption. Yes fights have to be judged round by round but i think they need a defined system for this to work. It always seems that judges are very biased towards one art or the other. I mean the judge for Hamill vs Bisping didn't score take downs at all. I dont care if the other guy gets up right away, one successful takedown takes as much energy as several combos.

I don't have an answer for you as to what exactly they should use. Perhaps have a split card where 1 would have ground score and the other would have stand up score :roll:.

[Beebs]

It definitely doesn't prevent corruption. Yes fights have to be judged round by round but i think they need a defined system for this to work. It always seems that judges are very biased towards one art or the other. I mean the judge for Hamill vs Bisping didn't score take downs at all. I dont care if the other guy gets up right away, one successful takedown takes as much energy as several combos.

I don't have an answer for you as to what exactly they should use. Perhaps have a split card where 1 would have ground score and the other would have stand up score :roll:.

It does helpt to prevent corruption, in that you have to justify at least 2 rounds, rather than just saying that the guy won the fight.