ESB MMA Hall of Fame

[cross_trainer]

The previous one was too complicated, and floundered. This one is simple.

Two categories-- pre-UFC and post UFC. Top 5 scorers for each will be admitted. Maximum of 5 "old" and 5 "new" nominations per poster.

[cross_trainer]

Mine

Before the UFC

1. Masahiko Kimura -- First Vale Tudo champion, beat Helio
2. Jon Bluming -- 10th dan Kyokushin, 9th dan Judo
3. William Miller -- Held national championships in wrestling and boxing
4. Carlson Gracie -- Brazilian Vale Tudo champion, beat Santana
5. Helio Gracie -- Founder of BJJ, fought several mixed matches

After the UFC

1. Quinton Jackson -- first undisputed champion ever
2. Royce Gracie -- for his early successes
3. Fedor Emelianenko -- greatest fighter of the modern era
4. Matt Hughes -- dominance in a specific weightclass
5. Wanderlei Silva -- beat Sakuraba, had a remarkably long run in PRIDE

[Duende]

I can't do a before UFC list so I only comment on the second list. Rampage is far from undisputed IMO. He is the legimate champ in the UFC but he doesnt have the Pride belt in his own weightclass. So he has to beat guys like Shogun to make him undisputed.

In no particular order(and I am gonna forget a few that I will regret)

- Fedor: undefeated and fought all the big names in the most important division.
- Vovchanchyn: Fantastic run in Pride and won many 8 men tournaments often KO-ing guys way bigger than him.
- Royce: Being a pioneer and showing that technique can beat power and size.
-Sakuraba: For being a wizard and fighting everyone they put in front of him.
- Couture: Great wrestler, always comes in shape, willing to fight anyone and he only gets better with age. An inspiration for any fighter. Living legend IMO.

Edit: Put Couture in for Silva.

[cross_trainer]

I can't do a before UFC list so I only comment on the second list. Rampage is far from undisputed IMO. He is the legimate champ in the UFC but he doesnt have the Pride belt in his own weightclass.

He did, however, beat the guy holding the PRIDE belt. Much as Lewis was stripped of one of the belts after beating Holyfield, but is still considered undisputed because he beat the guy holding the belts. At least, that is my reasoning.

Good list, by the way.

[Donut62]

I also don't feel qualified to make a judgement on list one. But list two:

1. Randy Couture - Greatest underdog in history with multiple belt wins in two weight classes.
2. Fedor Emelianenko - Greastest mixed martial artist of his era, probably ever.
3. Sakuraba - It's Sakuraba, goddamnit.
4. Royce Gracie - His early sucess, and he changed the public of perception of "fighting" beyond hitting each other in the face with 10 ouncers.
5. Matt Hughes - Most dominant fighter in a weight class for the longest time.

[Duende]

He did, however, beat the guy holding the PRIDE belt. Much as Lewis was stripped of one of the belts after beating Holyfield, but is still considered undisputed because he beat the guy holding the belts. At least, that is my reasoning.

Good list, by the way.

Thanks, but I already regret not putting Couture in there:yep

You're right about him beating the Pride beltholder. I forgot that Henderson held both belts.

[mann187]

Dont much pre UFC so just say Cross Trainers list

Randy - great ambassador for the sport
Royce Gracie - showed how to win the bigger guy
Rampage - fav fighter, first undisputed champ - can see why some might not choose though
Tito - yeah I know, but did make MMA mainstream
Penn - most naturally skilled fighter I seen and great to watch, beat dominant champ Hughes from lower weight class

some i left out:
Fedor - not seen enough fights but agree best fighter in world
Hughes - dominated for long time maybe his attitude was a down point
Sakuraba - not seen enough fights

[jimmie]

I also feel unqualifed for the 1st list I could make one if I wanted but I just dont feel I know enough.

Im trying to go with guys whos careers are done or close to it and have easily cemented there status a guy like Fedor can still do alot more and has a few more years left so ill go with the older guys.

Randy Couture
Royce Gracie
Ken Shamrock
Sakuraba
Chuck Liddell

[Beebs]

Pre UFC
Ken Shamrock-he was considered the best fighter in the world the day before the first UFC, so I think he should count.
Chris Dolman-First RINGS champion.
Gokor Chivichyan-Championships in Judo, Sambo, and Wrestling, and fought in early NHB matches and one modern one, later became a great instructor.
Kimura-duh

UFC Era
Royce Gracie First UFC champion
Mark Coleman First UFC and Pride Champion, first Pride Champion, first dominant GnP.
Rampage First to unify since the formation of Pride
Matt Hughes Most dominant within weightclass
Randy Couture 5 titles, 2 weightclasses, 43 years old.

Really wish I had room for
Dan Henderson First RINGS King of Kings champ, first to hold titles in 2 weightclass at same time.

[USMCGixxer6]

still dont think Rampage is a HOFer, yeah he unified the title, but come on. He beats Liddell and then a blownup MW, I would hold out on hime for a bit. If he keeps the title for a while and maybe avenges some of his losses, then sure.

[cross_trainer]

still dont think Rampage is a HOFer, yeah he unified the title, but come on. He beats Liddell and then a blownup MW, I would hold out on hime for a bit. If he keeps the title for a while and maybe avenges some of his losses, then sure.
Well, he is the first fighter in history who has proved to be the best in the world in his weightclass--over a talent pool twice the size of any pre-unification UFC or PRIDE champion, and at the time of the sport's greatest popularity and depth of competition. And let us not forget that Henderson and Liddell were considered the two top P4P fighters (Fedor aside) of the time.

That seems historically significant enough to merit inclusion.

In any event, which fighters would you include?

[USMCGixxer6]

Well, he is the first fighter in history who has proved to be the best in the world in his weightclass--over a talent pool twice the size of any pre-unification UFC or PRIDE champion, and at the time of the sport's greatest popularity and depth of competition.

That seems historically significant enough to merit inclusion.

In any event, which fighters would you include?

hrmm, pretty much all the guys who you have on the list, I just think its to early to include Rampage.

[ufoalf]

Pre UFC
Ken Shamrock-he was considered the best fighter in the world the day before the first UFC, so I think he should count.
Chris Dolman-First RINGS champion.
Gokor Chivichyan-Championships in Judo, Sambo, and Wrestling, and fought in early NHB matches and one modern one, later became a great instructor.
Kimura-duh

UFC Era
Royce Gracie First UFC champion
Mark Coleman First UFC and Pride Champion, first Pride Champion, first dominant GnP.
Rampage First to unify since the formation of Pride
Matt Hughes Most dominant within weightclass
Randy Couture 5 titles, 2 weightclasses, 43 years old.

Really wish I had room for
Dan Henderson First RINGS King of Kings champ, first to hold titles in 2 weightclass at same time.

Aww cmon, you gona put Coleman over Fedor? Is it just to be special or so everyone goes "wtfux?". 11 title defenses against top competition is not better than w/e Coleman did? Other than that solid list.

[cross_trainer]

Aww cmon, you gona put Coleman over Fedor? Is it just to be special or so everyone goes "wtfux?". 11 title defenses against top competition is not better than w/e Coleman did? Other than that solid list.

What is your list?

[cross_trainer]

hrmm, pretty much all the guys who you have on the list, I just think its to early to include Rampage.

OK. So Fedor, Hughes, Royce, and Silva...who should I put down for your fifth and final nominee?

[USMCGixxer6]

really is a tough call, lemme think about it

[ufoalf]

In no order.

Before the UFC

Masahiko Kimura
Carlson Gracie
Helio Gracie
Can't name other two. Limited knowledge prevents me from giving an educated answer.

After the UFC

Fedor Emelianenko
Matt Hughes
Quinton Jackson
Royce Gracie
Randy Couture

[Beebs]

Aww cmon, you gona put Coleman over Fedor? Is it just to be special or so everyone goes "wtfux?". 11 title defenses against top competition is not better than w/e Coleman did? Other than that solid list.

Just lack of room, only had 5 to work with.

[cross_trainer]

Good answers so far.

Keep 'em coming! :D

[cross_trainer]

Right now, it looks like....


Old Timers

Masahiko Kimura -- 4 votes
Carlson Gracie -- 3 votes
Helio Gracie -- 3 votes
Gokor Chivichyan -- 2 votes
William Miller -- 1 vote (4 way tie)
Gene Lebell -- 1 vote (4 way tie)
Chris Dolman -- 1 vote (4 way tie)
Jon Bluming -- 1 vote (4 way tie)

Modern

Royce Gracie -- 9 votes
Randy Couture -- 7 votes
Fedor Emelianenko -- 6 votes
Matt Hughes -- 6 votes
Quinton Jackson -- 4 votes (2 way tie)
Kazushi Sakuraba --4 votes (2 way tie)
Wanderlei Silva -- 2 votes
Ken Shamrock -- 2 votes
Tito Ortiz -- 1 vote
Igor Vovchanchyn -- 1 vote
BJ Penn -- 1 vote
Chuck Liddell -- 1 vote
Mark Coleman -- 1 vote

[cross_trainer]

Final Entrants

Old Timers

Kimura
Carlson
Helio
Gokor

Modern

Royce
Couture
Fedor
Hughes



That still leaves two tiebreakers. Please vote again on which of these fighters should be included:


Jackson / Sakuraba (pick one)

and

Miller / Lebell / Dolman / Bluming (pick one)

[Beebs]

I'll take Jackson and Dolman.

[cross_trainer]

I'll cast the third tiebreaking vote:

Gene Lebell and Quinton Jackson

[cross_trainer]

So, the athletes enrolled are...

Old Timers

Masahiko Kimura
Carlson Gracie
Helio Gracie
Gokor Chivichyan
"Judo" Gene LeBell

Modern

Royce Gracie
Randy Couture
Fedor Emelianenko
Matt Hughes
Quinton Jackson





.....In a month (and every month or so afterwards), we'll allow one or two more fighters into our Hall of Fame.