Wing Chun

[achillesthegreat]

Your thoughts?

On Friday I had to listen to a guy saying that if he gets inside a boxer it's all over. He then proceeded to tell me how cage fighting just don't cut it.

Personally, I think it is very good but not against a trained fighter. If it was effective it would have been used more in MMA. I do think it is very good though. I'm a big fan though I wouldn't exactly agree with what the bloke said to me on Friday.

[196osh]

A wing chung fighter I am sure would beat up most random thugs but anybody with any training in boxing, muay thai bjj sambo etc would take them out rapidly from what I have seen.

Assuming no eye gouging etc is involved.

[Beebs]

Kidnap him and take him to a boxing or mma gym.

Show him Gracies in Action videos.

[196osh]

Kidnap him and take him to a boxing or mma gym.


Beebs you have the right idea. :D

[wingchung]

A wing chung fighter I am sure would beat up most random thugs but anybody with any training in boxing, muay thai bjj sambo etc would take them out rapidly from what I have seen.

Assuming no eye gouging etc is involved.

wing chun takes so long 2 perfect it is ridiculous. you dont know much about it at all. wing chun and wushu r the best fighting styles ever. bye the way, what fighters have you been observing?

[196osh]

1. What are you talking about what fighters I have been observing (all of them, its my hobby)

2. If it takes so long to perfect you will be past prime physically and get fucked up because your old, that happens in real fighting.

3. Wushu....:rofl

[wentz]

Your thoughts?

On Friday I had to listen to a guy saying that if he gets inside a boxer it's all over. He then proceeded to tell me how cage fighting just don't cut it.

Personally, I think it is very good but not against a trained fighter. If it was effective it would have been used more in MMA. I do think it is very good though. I'm a big fan though I wouldn't exactly agree with what the bloke said to me on Friday.


Not really. There are trends in mma. There is pressure to fight like a tough man contestant, which is what we see on zuffa shows.

Many useful techniques have not been introduced into MMA. I don't buy this guy could compete, but some wing chun techniques could be useful.

[Beebs]

wing chun takes so long 2 perfect it is ridiculous. you dont know much about it at all. wing chun and wushu r the best fighting styles ever. bye the way, what fighters have you been observing?

So name the best wing chung fighter in the world then.

What does length of time to learn have to do with making somethig inherently good?

I'll take a decent high school wrestler a golden gloves boxer, a bjj blue belt, an average judoka, or a 15 year old Thai fighter over any wing chung "fighter" (in quoted because the term fighter usually means you have fought) 100/100 times.

[Polymath]

It defintely looks cool on the videos.

[Beebs]

Not really. There are trends in mma. There is pressure to fight like a tough man contestant, which is what we see on zuffa shows.

Many useful techniques have not been introduced into MMA. I don't buy this guy could compete, but some wing chun techniques could be useful.


Yes, toughman contestants like Machida, Lesnar, BJ, GSP; all horrible fighters.

[scurlaruntings]

Your thoughts?

On Friday I had to listen to a guy saying that if he gets inside a boxer it's all over. He then proceeded to tell me how cage fighting just don't cut it.

Personally, I think it is very good but not against a trained fighter. If it was effective it would have been used more in MMA. I do think it is very good though. I'm a big fan though I wouldn't exactly agree with what the bloke said to me on Friday.He's talking shit. I trained in Wing Chun as a kid. As an art form its better than Wushu but striking wise its nonsense. The good thing about Wing Chun is its emphasizes anatomy and attacking the weakess parts of the body. Sticky fingers is impressive to watch but in reality its not that practical to apply. I mean some of the moves for defending against weapons like knives is pretty laughable.

[Beebs]

San-Shou / San-Da is a part of/related to Wu-Shu; so if by Wu-Shu he means San-Da/Shou, a highly competitive sport similar to Thai-Boxing with takedowns he isn't quite an idiot. Of course he doesn't, and he is though.

China, in particular, has some absolutely fantastic San-Da fighters who are better, significantly better, than Cung Le in that sport. Given they have a billion people and it's their national martial art, and that The Art of War is a fantastic Chinese MMA promotion, their is a huge potential for Chinese San da fighters who develop a ground game (or prime Liddell takedown defense/ability to get back up) to make an enormous impact.

Of course it is yet another example of communism ruining the world since they don't have the freedom needed to learn and leave the country :lol:

[wingchung]

So name the best wing chung fighter in the world then.

What does length of time to learn have to do with making somethig inherently good?

I'll take a decent high school wrestler a golden gloves boxer, a bjj blue belt, an average judoka, or a 15 year old Thai fighter over any wing chung "fighter" (in quoted because the term fighter usually means you have fought) 100/100 times.

bruce lee is the best followed bye jackie chan.

[196osh]

Fuck off ya dirty noob.

:good

[wingchung]

Fuck off ya dirty noob.

:good

nuff said. you had 2 ask and shows you dont know what you are talking about.

[wingchung]

San-Shou / San-Da is a part of/related to Wu-Shu; so if by Wu-Shu he means San-Da/Shou, a highly competitive sport similar to Thai-Boxing with takedowns he isn't quite an idiot. Of course he doesn't, and he is though.

China, in particular, has some absolutely fantastic San-Da fighters who are better, significantly better, than Cung Le in that sport. Given they have a billion people and it's their national martial art, and that The Art of War is a fantastic Chinese MMA promotion, their is a huge potential for Chinese San da fighters who develop a ground game (or prime Liddell takedown defense/ability to get back up) to make an enormous impact.

Of course it is yet another example of communism ruining the world since they don't have the freedom needed to learn and leave the country :lol:

nice 2 c a person who knows what they are talking about.

[Beebs]

Kidnap him and take him to a boxing or mma gym.

Show him Gracies in Action videos.

These videos in particular.

Royce vs Jason Delucia
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Royce vs some random kung fu guy twice, then Ralph vs Geraldo Silva Pedra a "Kung fu world vice champion" in an MMA fight.
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And a more modern one that shows what happens when you think eye gouging will save you.
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[Beebs]

On the other hand; real San Da..

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[Beebs]

Now for some Art of War; like I said some serious Thai style striking combined with good high amplitude throw style wrestling.

So much potential in Chinese MMA.

Several Shows
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Art of War 9 highlights Serious potential in Chinese MMA.
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Art of War 12 highlights (poor quality)
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[Slothrop]

Any vids of these win chun fuckers whoopin sombody's ass?

[Beebs]

A good full fight
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[Beebs]

Any vids of these win chun fuckers whoopin sombody's ass?

Like I said if you mean wing chung as in typical kung fu delusionals, then no, they probably don't exist because it's a garbage way of fighting; if you mean battle hardened San-Shou/San-Da fighters from China, I just posted some.

[196osh]

I doubt he ment the likes of Cung Le, he is just a dumb troll.

Jackie Chan and Bruce lee. :-(

[wingchung]

I doubt he ment the likes of Cung Le, he is just a dumb troll.

Jackie Chan and Bruce lee. :-(

you are an idiot.

[TKDfighterJoe]

in those videos the gracies are standing (in the beginning) in taekwondo stance, at taekwondo distance, and used a taekwondo lead leg sidekick 'surfing' technique.

No doubt because they trained with 88 olympic silver medalist jay warwick for 4 years.

Very interesting.

[snakey112]

you are an idiot.

no, you are an idiot, you think bruce lee was the best fighter yet there is absolutely no proof of this, how many pro fights did he win? exactly

and no don't bother posting that list of his "abilities" because if they are actually true, they do nothing to show how good of a fighter he was, in fact, he even admitted that he would lose to muhammad ali in a fight, so stop kidding yourself watching all those kung fu movies.

[snakey112]

wing chun takes so long 2 perfect it is ridiculous. you dont know much about it at all. wing chun and wushu r the best fighting styles ever. bye the way, what fighters have you been observing?

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[Chris85]

LOL I think the "bruce lee - pacman" thread got deleted recently, I dont know exactly what happened to the thread. But anyway...

I dont really wanna dis bruce but it is true that theres no proof that he was that good. Alot of it are hearsay and are exagerated by his students/fans/media.

Remember bullshit sells, so imagine bruce got his ass handed to him by some nobody, whos gonna watch enter the dragon after that?

[TKDfighterJoe]

you are an idiot.your posts have a matured depth analysis cultivated by your vast intellect.

[IntentionalButt]

Jackie Chan... :rofl

[snakey112]

Jackie Chan... :rofl

lmao

[196osh]

you are an idiot.

STFU jackie.

Get Mr Chan or any wing chung guy in with the man in my avatar and he would get badly badly damaged. :yep

[joe the great]

It's a pretty good art but all styles have there limitations. Even some MMA. No dirty tactics, eye gouging, biting, no weapons, one on one, ground fighting not always a good idea on the street. All arts have usefullness but none are flawless.

[Beebs]

It's a pretty good art but all styles have there limitations. Even some MMA. No dirty tactics, eye gouging, biting, no weapons, one on one, ground fighting not always a good idea on the street. All arts have usefullness but none are flawless.

Nobody needed to teach Vanderlei Silva to headbutt, nobody had to teach Mark Kerr how to pull apart cuts. Fighting dirty is not a sustainable tecnique, since the other guy is going to be equally willing and able to do it.

[TKDfighterJoe]

Nobody needed to teach Vanderlei Silva to headbutt, nobody had to teach Mark Kerr how to pull apart cuts. Fighting dirty is not a sustainable tecnique, since the other guy is going to be equally willing and able to do it.there are ways of fighting which do not leave you on such an even playing field

[wingchung]

STFU jackie.

Get Mr Chan or any wing chung guy in with the man in my avatar and he would get badly badly damaged. :yep

you have idea what u r talking about. idiot.

[196osh]

you have idea what u r talking about. idiot.

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[ufoalf]

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[scurlaruntings]

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[IntentionalButt]

STFU jackie.

Get Mr Chan or any wing chung guy in with the man in my avatar and he would get badly badly damaged. :yep

Jackie Chan isn't even a wing chung guy! He isn't an anything-martial-arts-related(other-than-movies) guy!!! I thought this was common knowledge. :patsch

He's a stuntman/choreographer. He and Hung learned "martial arts" in an acting school. Everything they know is 100% intended for stage performance and 0% practical. That's why it's so absurd when people insist Chan would beat somebody like Jet Li (who's actually piled up real accomplishments in actual martial arts competition) in a h2h fight. :-(

[196osh]

Jackie Chan isn't even a wing chung guy! He isn't an anything-martial-arts-related(other-than-movies) guy!!! I thought this was common knowledge. :patsch

He's a stuntman/choreographer. He and Hung learned "martial arts" in an acting school. Everything they know is 100% intended for stage performance and 0% practical. That's why it's so absurd when people insist Chan would beat somebody like Jet Li (who's actually piled up real accomplishments in actual martial arts competition) in a h2h fight. :-(

I assumed Jackie had some sort of martial arts credentials even if they were just for show. As for Jet what compitions has he been involved in which have been fights as opposed to form?

Anyway, Jacare would tear Jets arm off and beat Jackie to death with it. :D

[IntentionalButt]

I assumed Jackie had some sort of martial arts credentials even if they were just for show. As for Jet what compitions has he been involved in which have been fights as opposed to form?

Anyway, Jacare would tear Jets arm off and beat Jackie to death with it. :D

It's been a while (years) since I last debated this with anybody, but the stuff's there to be researched. Have at it if you're curious. :yep

I just remember Jet had a fairly impressive record - winning (> .500), and then some - in whatever comps he participated in. Jackie has maybe never been in a fight (organized or otherwise) in his entire adult life - or life, period. Pretty sure his nose was broken in some innocuous rated-G manner as well. :lol:

[196osh]

Not doubting you. Was just an assumption that Jakie would have some experience.

As for Jet he is still losing an arm, :bart.

Im not taking this guy all together seriously incase you couldn't tell.

[wingchung]

Not doubting you. Was just an assumption that Jakie would have some experience.

As for Jet he is still losing an arm, :bart.

Im not taking this guy all together seriously incase you couldn't tell.

you are so dumb it is amazing. you ask what has jet li done? you dont even know his style. cant take someone like you seriously.

[wingchung]

Jackie Chan isn't even a wing chung guy! He isn't an anything-martial-arts-related(other-than-movies) guy!!! I thought this was common knowledge. :patsch

He's a stuntman/choreographer. He and Hung learned "martial arts" in an acting school. Everything they know is 100% intended for stage performance and 0% practical. That's why it's so absurd when people insist Chan would beat somebody like Jet Li (who's actually piled up real accomplishments in actual martial arts competition) in a h2h fight. :-(

jackie chan studied wing chun and judo. try reading his biography.

[wingchung]

Not doubting you. Was just an assumption that Jakie would have some experience.

As for Jet he is still losing an arm, :bart.

Im not taking this guy all together seriously incase you couldn't tell.

bruce was a wing chun master and fought alot. dumbass.

[196osh]

you are so dumb it is amazing. you ask what has jet li done? you dont even know his style. cant take someone like you seriously.

Jet Li is a 40 odd year old actor.

I have seen zero evidence or footage of Jet fighting full contact.

Even if he was the super duper world kungfu drunken northern longfist praying mantis champion of the world and greatest fighter ever, Jacare would take him down and rip off a limb in about 8 seconds. :good

[196osh]

bruce was a wing chun master and fought alot. dumbass.

:lol:

Bruce Lee had skills, but he has zero pro fights, or recorded full contact bouts.

p.s. when did I mention him

p.p.s. Jacare would still fuck him up

p.p.p.s Any average level boxer/thai boxer/bjj fighter/mma fighter would ruin Bruce.

[196osh]

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[IntentionalButt]

jackie chan studied wing chun and judo. try reading his biography.

In books? On film? :lol: Okay.

"Chan attended the Nah-Hwa Primary School on Hong Kong Island, where he failed his first year, after which his parents withdrew him from the school. In 1960, his father immigrated to Canberra, Australia, to work as head cook for the American embassy, and Chan was sent to the China Drama Academy, a Peking Opera School run by Master Yu Jim Yuen. Chan trained rigorously for the next decade, excelling in martial arts and acrobatics. He eventually became part of the Seven Little Fortunes, a performance group made up of the school's best students, gaining the stage name Yuen Lo in homage to his master. Chan became close friends with fellow group members Sammo Hung and Yuen Biao, the three of them later to be known as the Three Brothers or Three Dragons.

At the age of 8, he appeared with some of his fellow "Little Fortunes", in the film Big and Little Wong Tin Bar (1962), with Li Li Hua playing his mother. Chan appeared with Li again the following year, in The Love Eterne (1963) and had a small role in King Hu's 1966 film, Come Drink with Me. In 1971, after an appearance as an extra in another Kong Fu film, A Touch of Zen, Chan began his adult career in the film industry, initially signing to Chu Mu's Great Earth Film Company. At the age of 17, he worked as a stuntman in the Bruce Lee films Fist of Fury and Enter the Dragon under the stage name Chen Yuen Long. He received his first starring role later that year, in Little Tiger of Canton, which had a limited release in Hong Kong in 1973. Due to the commercial failures in his early ventures into films and trouble finding stunt work, in 1975 Chan starred in a comedic adult film, All in the Family, the only film he has made to date that did not feature a single fight scene or stunt sequence."

He is an actor, and has been since childhood. :deal He is not, and never has been, a serious student of any real martial art in any real capacity. Literally ALL the "Kung Fu" he knows is the all-for-show crap they teach alongside acrobatics to little kids who aspire to be actors and choreographers - not a shred of practical knowledge useful in competitive or street fighting. He excelled in little-kid-actor martial arts, as a child actor. :yep

[wingchung]

:lol:

Bruce Lee had skills, but he has zero pro fights, or recorded full contact bouts.

p.s. when did I mention him

p.p.s. Jacare would still fuck him up

p.p.p.s Any average level boxer/thai boxer/bjj fighter/mma fighter would ruin Bruce.

i would suggest you study alot more. bruce has zero fights? seriously you dont know anything about martial arts.

[wingchung]

In books? On film? :lol: Okay.

"Chan attended the Nah-Hwa Primary School on Hong Kong Island, where he failed his first year, after which his parents withdrew him from the school. In 1960, his father immigrated to Canberra, Australia, to work as head cook for the American embassy, and Chan was sent to the China Drama Academy, a Peking Opera School run by Master Yu Jim Yuen. Chan trained rigorously for the next decade, excelling in martial arts and acrobatics. He eventually became part of the Seven Little Fortunes, a performance group made up of the school's best students, gaining the stage name Yuen Lo in homage to his master. Chan became close friends with fellow group members Sammo Hung and Yuen Biao, the three of them later to be known as the Three Brothers or Three Dragons.

At the age of 8, he appeared with some of his fellow "Little Fortunes", in the film Big and Little Wong Tin Bar (1962), with Li Li Hua playing his mother. Chan appeared with Li again the following year, in The Love Eterne (1963) and had a small role in King Hu's 1966 film, Come Drink with Me. In 1971, after an appearance as an extra in another Kong Fu film, A Touch of Zen, Chan began his adult career in the film industry, initially signing to Chu Mu's Great Earth Film Company. At the age of 17, he worked as a stuntman in the Bruce Lee films Fist of Fury and Enter the Dragon under the stage name Chen Yuen Long. He received his first starring role later that year, in Little Tiger of Canton, which had a limited release in Hong Kong in 1973. Due to the commercial failures in his early ventures into films and trouble finding stunt work, in 1975 Chan starred in a comedic adult film, All in the Family, the only film he has made to date that did not feature a single fight scene or stunt sequence."

He is an actor, and has been since childhood. :deal He is not, and never has been, a serious student of any real martial art in any real capacity. Literally ALL the "Kung Fu" he knows is the all-for-show crap they teach alongside acrobatics to little kids who aspire to be actors and choreographers - not a shred of practical knowledge useful in competitive or street fighting. He excelled in little-kid-actor martial arts, as a child actor. :yep

you said he did not study wing chun and he clearly did.

[IntentionalButt]

It's unclear to me how much 196osh is just trying to get a rise out of this...uh...whatever (troll? retard? who knows!) but choosing to pick my battles based on reality - Lee and Li both have full-contact experience, and were both regarded as being fearsome head to head competitors.

Jackie freaking Chan, however, at any point in his life, loses to any tale-of-the-tape-comparable Toughman entrant. :lol:

[wingchung]

It's unclear to me how much 196osh is just trying to get a rise out of this...uh...whatever (troll? retard? who knows!) but choosing to pick my battles based on reality - Lee and Li both have full-contact experience, and were both regarded as being fearsome head to head competitors.

Jackie freaking Chan, however, at any point in his life, loses to any tale-of-the-tape-comparable Toughman entrant. :lol:

you seem knowlegable about ma. i dont take the other guy serious. im glad i found someone with some common sense. what do you think about donnie yen?

[IntentionalButt]

you seem knowlegable about ma. i dont take the other guy serious. im glad i found someone with some common sense. what do you think about donnie yen?

Iron Monkey. :ibutt

His part in Highlander - Endgame was too small, IMO. The movie wasn't that great, even for long-time guilty pleasure fans of the series. :yep Wish they'd cut some of that crap to include his deleted scenes. With more exposure he could have possibly have become a big crossover star in the U.S., almost as big as Chan or Li (without even needing the former's goofy charisma or the latter's badass brooding intensity). Just sheer untouchable skill (strictly in terms of fictional, choreographed M.A.)

Tony Jaa is the closest to carrying the torch out of the East these days. And his on-screen weapon of choice (Muay Thai) is actually useful in practical real-life applications. :good A lot of the rest of those guys are to M.A. what Brock Lesnar five years ago is to Brock Lesnar now (or to Brock Lesnar ten years ago :yep)

[wingchung]

Iron Monkey. :ibutt

His part in Highlander - Endgame was too small, IMO. The movie wasn't that great, even for long-time guilty pleasure fans of the series. :yep Wish they'd cut some of that crap to include his deleted scenes. With more exposure he could have possibly have become a big crossover star in the U.S., almost as big as Chan or Li (without even needing the former's goofy charisma or the latter's badass brooding intensity). Just sheer untouchable skill (strictly in terms of fictional, choreographed M.A.)

Tony Jaa is the closest to carrying the torch out of the East these days. And his on-screen weapon of choice (Muay Thai) is actually useful in practical real-life applications. :good A lot of the rest of those guys are to M.A. what Brock Lesnar five years ago is to Brock Lesnar now (or to Brock Lesnar ten years ago :yep)

yen needs a new manager. his feet r so fast it almost seems like dvd player is on fast and his triple kick. insane.

[Beebs]

bruce was a wing chun master and fought alot. dumbass.

Who did he fight?

Do you think he would stand a chance against actual pioneers or cross training or fighting in different disciplines and fighters from his generation, be they single style or cross trained in a Vale Tudo fight?

The second question really determines just how crazy a Bruce Lee fan is.

For example: Bruce Lee vs Victor Mclaglen (credit to Cross_Trainer, the god of this sort of thing)
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Both actors.

Bruce is renowned for the "scientific" development of Jeet Kune Do, his so-bad-they're-good roles in action movies, and for encouraging cross-training. McLaglen wrestled, boxed (against Jack Johnson, no less!), outweighed Bruce by 80 pounds, and actually won an Academy Award.

Who wins?

From [Only registered and activated users can see links]
He left home at fourteen to join the British Army ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) with the intention of fighting in the Second Boer War ([Only registered and activated users can see links]). However, much to his chagrin, he was stationed at Windsor Castle ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) with the Life Guards ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) and was later forced to leave the army when his true age was discovered.
Four years later, he moved to Canada ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), where he earned a living as a wrestler and heavyweight boxer, with several notable wins in the ring. One of his most famous fights was against Heavyweight ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Champion Jack Johnson ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), in a 6 round exhibition bout.[4] ([Only registered and activated users can see links]_note-boxing-3) (This bout was Johnson's first bout since winning the heavyweight title from Tommy Burns ([Only registered and activated users can see links]).) Between bouts, McLaglen toured with a circus, which offered $25 to anyone who could go three rounds with him. He returned to England in 1913 and during World War I ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) served as a Captain ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (acting ([Only registered and activated users can see links])) with the 10th Battalion, Middlesex Regiment ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), part of the The Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment (Queen's and Royal Hampshires) ([Only registered and activated users can see links]). Later he claimed to have served with the Royal Irish Fusiliers ([Only registered and activated users can see links]). He served for a time as military Provost Marshal ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) for the city of Baghdad ([Only registered and activated users can see links]).[5] ([Only registered and activated users can see links]_note-4) He also continued boxing, and was named Heavyweight Champion of the British Army ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) in 1918.[4] ([Only registered and activated users can see links]_note-boxing-3) After the war, he began taking roles in British silent films ([Only registered and activated users can see links]).


Not only would McLaglen beat his ass, he was a better actor. :hey

How about Valdemar Santana?

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[Only registered and activated users can see links] (Again Cross_Trainer)
Beat Helio Gracie, lost 2 times to Carlson Gracie and drew with him twice, did Judo, boxing, BJJ, and Luta Livre?

Speaking of badasses who fought Gracies; the godfather would be Kimura, who the armlock was named after.
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Basically do you think he would do anything against the first generation Gracies? Let alone later generations.

Carlson was only 8 years older, do you seriously think Bruce Lee would last 5 minutes with Carlson without having at least one bone broken or being put to sleep?


What about Jack Dempsey, the man (in every sense of the word "man") who's book on boxing Lee both managed to plagerize and incorrectly understand. Now, if you think Lee could even be remotely competitive in any way in striking with one of the greatest boxers to ever walk the Earth, you are just ignorant in every sense of the word. It doesn't stop there though, he wouldn't need to outbox Lee to beat his ass.

As his book written about training the Coast Guard in hand to hand combat during WW2, How to Fight Tough shows, was far more advanced in his understanding of grappling with knowledge of wrestling, judo, and jiu-jitsu.

Dempsey brought in some of the best trainers in all of those arts, rather than Lee, who would go train under a coach in an art, and arrogantly feel he could pick and choose what was "good" despite never actually getting good enough at any of them to have any real understanding.


1)Jack Dempsey knows Judo, bitches.
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2) What he calls "Head Clamp" essentially an early advanced form of the type of guillotine that uses as RNC type grip; Faber uses this well, Pulver used a variation on Cub Swanson.
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3) JAck Dempsey with a Rear Naked Choke.
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These guys are just a few of the thousands who were far more advanced, both in theory and pracitce than Bruce Le. Not only did they know more, they knew it earlier, and most importantly they would beat him easily.

[Beebs]

Just to save me the work of explaining yet again why Bruce Lee is not the godfather of MMA, the inventor of MMA, the first Mixed Martial Artists, or even a particuarly noteworthy one (beyond his fame):

The Real Godfathers of MMA

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[wingchung]

Who did he fight?

Do you think he would stand a chance against actual pioneers or cross training or fighting in different disciplines and fighters from his generation, be they single style or cross trained in a Vale Tudo fight?

The second question really determines just how crazy a Bruce Lee fan is.

For example: Bruce Lee vs Victor Mclaglen (credit to Cross_Trainer, the god of this sort of thing)
[Only registered and activated users can see links]


From [Only registered and activated users can see links]


Not only would McLaglen beat his ass, he was a better actor. :hey

How about Valdemar Santana?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links] (Again Cross_Trainer)
Beat Helio Gracie, lost 2 times to Carlson Gracie and drew with him twice, did Judo, boxing, BJJ, and Luta Livre?

Speaking of badasses who fought Gracies; the godfather would be Kimura, who the armlock was named after.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Basically do you think he would do anything against the first generation Gracies? Let alone later generations.

Carlson was only 8 years older, do you seriously think Bruce Lee would last 5 minutes with Carlson without having at least one bone broken or being put to sleep?


What about Jack Dempsey, the man (in every sense of the word "man") who's book on boxing Lee both managed to plagerize and incorrectly understand. Now, if you think Lee could even be remotely competitive in any way in striking with one of the greatest boxers to ever walk the Earth, you are just ignorant in every sense of the word. It doesn't stop there though, he wouldn't need to outbox Lee to beat his ass.

As his book written about training the Coast Guard in hand to hand combat during WW2, How to Fight Tough shows, was far more advanced in his understanding of grappling with knowledge of wrestling, judo, and jiu-jitsu.

Dempsey brought in some of the best trainers in all of those arts, rather than Lee, who would go train under a coach in an art, and arrogantly feel he could pick and choose what was "good" despite never actually getting good enough at any of them to have any real understanding.


1)Jack Dempsey knows Judo, bitches.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

2) What he calls "Head Clamp" essentially an early advanced form of the type of guillotine that uses as RNC type grip; Faber uses this well, Pulver used a variation on Cub Swanson.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

3) JAck Dempsey with a Rear Naked Choke.
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These guys are just a few of the thousands who were far more advanced, both in theory and pracitce than Bruce Le. Not only did they know more, they knew it earlier, and most importantly they would beat him easily.

bruce lee vs dempsey would b a total mismatch. the speed difference is day and night. bruce lee would counter him and hurt him badly. bruce was trained in many arts forms and had a very good rear naked choke. in short bruce lee would have destroyed dempsey. it would not even b a fight dempsey was very slow with his punchs and footwork. its that simple. i honestly can say dempsey would not even b able to hit. fucking idiot. sheesh.

[TKDfighterJoe]

this guy is delusional and living on what he has seen in movies, and absorbed from these actors public relations people. I doubt you will convince him at all. Best back off before he blacks out.

[Chris85]

If bruce lived today, he would have been exposed by now. Too bad he died young and have left alot of myth flying around.

He certainly made alot of films and demos but where are the fights?

[karatekid530]

bruce lee vs dempsey would b a total mismatch. the speed difference is day and night. bruce lee would counter him and hurt him badly. bruce was trained in many arts forms and had a very good rear naked choke. in short bruce lee would have destroyed dempsey. it would not even b a fight dempsey was very slow with his punchs and footwork. its that simple. i honestly can say dempsey would not even b able to hit. fucking idiot. sheesh.


you sir are insane, a total troll, and have lost the last hope for credibility you could've possibly had with that statement. i like bruce just as much as the next fan, he was why i picked up martial arts in the first place. but beating jack dempsey by a landslide? get the fuck outta here.

[196osh]

bruce lee vs dempsey would b a total mismatch. the speed difference is day and night. bruce lee would counter him and hurt him badly. bruce was trained in many arts forms and had a very good rear naked choke. in short bruce lee would have destroyed dempsey. it would not even b a fight dempsey was very slow with his punchs and footwork. its that simple. i honestly can say dempsey would not even b able to hit. fucking idiot. sheesh.

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

Bruce Lee beat Jack Depmsey. WTF are you smoking?

@IntentionalButt I am pretty much all trying to get a rise; but damn this is nuts. Not only was Jack a boxer but as beebs posted he had other training in actual fighting.

With regards to being a fearce H2H competitor (there is zero evidence of any fights with properlly trained fighters) I wouldn't think he would last 5 minutes with somebody like Por Pramuk.

[achillesthegreat]

bruce lee vs dempsey would b a total mismatch. the speed difference is day and night. bruce lee would counter him and hurt him badly. bruce was trained in many arts forms and had a very good rear naked choke. in short bruce lee would have destroyed dempsey. it would not even b a fight dempsey was very slow with his punchs and footwork. its that simple. i honestly can say dempsey would not even b able to hit. fucking idiot. sheesh.

now i am sure you are trolling.

[snakey112]

bruce lee vs dempsey would b a total mismatch. the speed difference is day and night. bruce lee would counter him and hurt him badly. bruce was trained in many arts forms and had a very good rear naked choke. in short bruce lee would have destroyed dempsey. it would not even b a fight dempsey was very slow with his punchs and footwork. its that simple. i honestly can say dempsey would not even b able to hit. fucking idiot. sheesh.

congratulations on completely missing the point of his post and making yourself out to look like an even bigger idiot

[Beebs]

this guy is delusional and living on what he has seen in movies, and absorbed from these actors public relations people. I doubt you will convince him at all. Best back off before he blacks out.


He is either fucking with me because I am easy to fuck with, a fairly advanced troll, or actually crazy. The one thing that leads me to believe he isn't just crazy is that he seemed to appreciate the SanDa or SanShou post, but thinking back, he didn't actually add anything, just sort of said "yea, see!"

[TKDfighterJoe]

He is either fucking with me because I am easy to fuck with, a fairly advanced troll, or actually crazy. The one thing that leads me to believe he isn't just crazy is that he seemed to appreciate the SanDa or SanShou post, but thinking back, he didn't actually add anything, just sort of said "yea, see!"growing up around 'traditional martial arts people' I have seen these kind of people before.

dead set on Lee KO 1 tyson.

I've seen his demonstrations, and the vast majority of it is martial art trickery that people do at tournaments to trick little kids, like a magic show.

Ive never seen his fights, cause there aren't any.

His technique is not good. He lifted a lot of weights, did steroids, and was flexible. hence him being in 'movies'. Ive been in elaborate 'lee' arguments before and Ive actually had people reference his movies, or the testimony of his actor buddies.

Also, 'his' philosophy (as was called HIS by everybody in his biography on the history channel) is simple Taoism mixed with some random stuff.

go to youtube and type in 'jeet kune do tournament' and you will notice... there is hardly any such thing. The closest thing I ever found was what looked like bad ITF taekwondo.

But that is probably because their techniques are not made for SPORT they are meant to KILL

[Beebs]

Thank god somebody else who agrees his "deep philosophy" is simply poorly pieced together various Eastern cliches, rather than actual philosophical thought.

He is a bigger fraud intellectually than combatively, and that is a big statement from me, given my thoughts on him.

I must say, you seem to be highly intelligent, so if I'm ever insulting to you, it's just because I don think it will bother you or you will get the humor.

[TKDfighterJoe]

I must say, you seem to be highly intelligent, so if I'm ever insulting to you, it's just because I don think it will bother you or you will get the humor.Thank you very much, your good attitude is making me re-evaluate some of my perceptions of your average MMA fan. :good

And I tend to have thick-skin about things. I have been in martial arts all my life and have hear people say some weird shit, Also I am no stranger to internet forum banter. :bbb

[Irishbc]

wing chun takes so long 2 perfect it is ridiculous. you dont know much about it at all. wing chun and wushu r the best fighting styles ever. bye the way, what fighters have you been observing?


I hit a wing chun guy on the chin and knocked him out cold.... it didnt help him much there :rofl

[Irishbc]

growing up around 'traditional martial arts people' I have seen these kind of people before.

dead set on Lee KO 1 tyson.

I've seen his demonstrations, and the vast majority of it is martial art trickery that people do at tournaments to trick little kids, like a magic show.

Ive never seen his fights, cause there aren't any.

His technique is not good. He lifted a lot of weights, did steroids, and was flexible. hence him being in 'movies'. Ive been in elaborate 'lee' arguments before and Ive actually had people reference his movies, or the testimony of his actor buddies.

Also, 'his' philosophy (as was called HIS by everybody in his biography on the history channel) is simple Taoism mixed with some random stuff.

go to youtube and type in 'jeet kune do tournament' and you will notice... there is hardly any such thing. The closest thing I ever found was what looked like bad ITF taekwondo.

But that is probably because their techniques are not made for SPORT they are meant to KILL


Hand of the claw and that bullshit lol, you don't seem to know much about Lee. I'm a boxer and Lees techniques helped me in street fights a lot more than your bullshit would.

BTW David Haye learned to fight as a youngster thanks to Lees techniques, as did I, neither of us are bad fighters in the slightest, so thanks, but no thanks.

EDIT: Oh you're a TKD guy, no offence, but that pretty much means your opinion is irrelevant, TKD is a HORRIBLY impracticle martial art.

Danni Abbadi was a TKD instructor, he was a brilliant fighter wasn't he? LOL

[Beebs]

Hand of the claw and that bullshit lol, you don't seem to know much about Lee. I'm a boxer and Lees techniques helped me in street fights a lot more than your bullshit would.

BTW David Haye learned to fight as a youngster thanks to Lees techniques, as did I, neither of us are bad fighters in the slightest, so thanks, but no thanks.

EDIT: Oh you're a TKD guy, no offence, but that pretty much means your opinion is irrelevant, TKD is a HORRIBLY impracticle martial art.

Danni Abbadi was a TKD instructor, he was a brilliant fighter wasn't he? LOL

David Haye then learned to box, from a boxing instructor, who taught him many things that Lee taught the opposite of.

I'm not TKD apologist, but if you want to point out failed fighters, JKD has a list just as long.

[wingchung]

you guys got nuts. my bad. i study wing chun and i enjoy the training alot. i fight mostly. i do very well n fights in the street and at my gym.

[TKDfighterJoe]

Hand of the claw and that bullshit lol, you don't seem to know much about Lee. I'm a boxer and Lees techniques helped me in street fights a lot more than your bullshit would.

BTW David Haye learned to fight as a youngster thanks to Lees techniques, as did I, neither of us are bad fighters in the slightest, so thanks, but no thanks.

EDIT: Oh you're a TKD guy, no offence, but that pretty much means your opinion is irrelevant, TKD is a HORRIBLY impracticle martial art.

Danni Abbadi was a TKD instructor, he was a brilliant fighter wasn't he? LOLIf I thought you actually knew something about taekwondo, I might actually be interested in your opinion. Why don't YOU tell ME something more about it so I can observe your vast knowledge on the subject.

From what I gather From the patented google search, abbadi was an ATA instructor. This is hilarious.

If he were a somebody in taekwondo in america, chances are I would know his name. And an ATA instructor is a nobody.

[UpperStr8]

It's like comparing apples and oranges. MMA uses alot of wrestling and hugging moves like in the couture and vera fight. Coulture pretty much hugged himself to victory while taking devasting body kicks from vera. Wing Chun is about your inner strength, your energy, or what they call 'CHI' which is applicable to everything you do in life not just boxing. With MMA you can be ignorant to your 'chi' and hug yourself to victory.

[196osh]

It's like comparing apples and oranges. MMA uses alot of wrestling and hugging moves like in the couture and vera fight. Coulture pretty much hugged himself to victory while taking devasting body kicks from vera. Wing Chun is about your inner strength, your energy, or what they call 'CHI' which is applicable to everything you do in life not just boxing. With MMA you can be ignorant to your 'chi' and hug yourself to victory.

You watch too many Kung Fu movies man.

Coture vs a chi guy would be one sided in Randy's favor, and he is 206 years old.

[UpperStr8]

at his age, a well experienced wing chun blow will put couture to sleep. How do you think couture will recover from that? Hugging his chin to sleep?

You dont mean to tell me that a wing chun fighter is biases and only utilizes what he knows. If its a MMA bout, I'm sure he will utilized other forms of fighting like judo, or the no shadow kick, or some secret shaolin gung fu that american fighters have no clue about.

[196osh]

:nut

Of course it would.

[Beebs]

a wing chun blow would put couture to sleep

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[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[UpperStr8]

AY beebs...

your looking in the wrong area

youtube and wrestling, or i guess you guys would call it grappling is for immatures.

Try manny pacquiao, better yet search for the pacquiao and hatton fight if you want to see a one hit knockout.

and watch when he knockouts pretty boy mayweather with a career ending overhead left to the chin!

[196osh]

Fuck off troll.

Pac is a boxer.

[UpperStr8]

thats why its like comparing apples and oranges. loser

[UpperStr8]

Upper straight in your face so take that

[196osh]

:nut

Please fell free to fuck off unless you can produce any evidence.

[TKDfighterJoe]

wing chun was created out of theory. Back when people did not spar much they had no idea how to fight, so they would mimmick animals and develop ideas about chi.

Nowadays they use techniques that create power based on the physical construct of the human body,then they focus on developing athleticism, timing, distance, and muscle memory.

[UpperStr8]

Your too stupid to see the evidence. Nowadays, if you watch carefully, all the nice knockouts that you like to watch in UFC is all wing chun based but foos like your dumb ass dont know it. you guys kick like stiff balls and you can see it coming from a distance. Try counting the many punches that manny throws and you'll know what I mean. I shouldn't need to explain unless your retarded and chose not to believe. Its all in the chi you stupid narrow minded WWF mutherfawker.

[TKDfighterJoe]

Your too stupid to see the evidence. Nowadays, if you watch carefully, all the nice knockouts that you like to watch in UFC is all wing chun based but foos like your dumb ass dont know it. you guys kick like stiff balls and you can see it coming from a distance. Try counting the many punches that manny throws and you'll know what I mean. I shouldn't need to explain unless your retarded and chose not to believe. Its all in the chi you stupid narrow minded WWF mutherfawker.Me? WWF? :huh

you are enlightened.

[Beebs]

at his age, a well experienced wing chun blow will put couture to sleep. How do you think couture will recover from that? Hugging his chin to sleep?

You dont mean to tell me that a wing chun fighter is biases and only utilizes what he knows. If its a MMA bout, I'm sure he will utilized other forms of fighting like judo, or the no shadow kick, or some secret shaolin gung fu that american fighters have no clue about.

And yet none have ever taken this $1,000,000 oppotunity.

In fact name one wing chung guy you think could do it; or one period.

[Beebs]

Your too stupid to see the evidence. Nowadays, if you watch carefully, all the nice knockouts that you like to watch in UFC is all wing chun based but foos like your dumb ass dont know it. you guys kick like stiff balls and you can see it coming from a distance. Try counting the many punches that manny throws and you'll know what I mean. I shouldn't need to explain unless your retarded and chose not to believe. Its all in the chi you stupid narrow minded WWF mutherfawker.

So a guy who's never done wing chung knocks people out with wing chung, despite not knowing it?
Using
Define chi, prove your version of it, prove that millenia of science is wrong.

Show me a video of a wing chung fighter beating an mma, boxing, wrestling, Muay Thai, judo, or any other combatt sport fighter.

Show me wing chung in any sort of fight.

Well done on the trolling, but there are a small percentage out there who need to see these faux arguments.

[Chris85]

AY beebs...

your looking in the wrong area

youtube and wrestling, or i guess you guys would call it grappling is for immatures.

Try manny pacquiao, better yet search for the pacquiao and hatton fight if you want to see a one hit knockout.

and watch when he knockouts pretty boy mayweather with a career ending overhead left to the chin!

LOL typical mystical art fan boys, too much talking and when ask for evidence theres nothing to show. Manny got nothing to do with all this, why not insert bruce lee instead? :patsch

I see vera and manny mentioned, you must be a pinoy. Some people would go far as bringing those names in musical theater or even ballet :lol:

[UpperStr8]

UFC is a bunch of baloney... its rigged just like WWF and just like the XFL. Why do you think some ex WWF dude is champ right now. That mutherfawken shiet is some american bull shiet scam. You'll never see the real deal in that octogon because its controlled and rigged by some white guy whose prob suckin on coutures dick. How are you going to let couture hug his way to a victory over vera. I;ve never seen vera fight before until then, but he kicked coutures old fart ass. He was holding on to vera for dear life and then you hear Joe Rogen in the background talking the king of dirty boxing. cmon now... get off of couture's dick. He is sooooooooo over rated and way past due for retirement. Maybe yall need a class in wing chun because yall must be geting it confused with something else. If yall like grappling yall must be gay or in the army. hehehehehe

FYI

Im not flip you racist bastard

[TKDfighterJoe]

This guy is MAD :fire



:rofl

[Chris85]

Im not flip you racist bastard

General santos + manny + vera :patsch

Oh let me add arnel pineda + charice :D

Gago umamin ka na :lol:

[UpperStr8]

all jibberish to me

didnt know vera was a fucken flip.

but Im a true fan

p.s. the profile is for loser ass haters like you to intercept your emtional intentions so mind your own business CHILD!

and get off my jock gaylord fucker

[Chris85]

This guy is MAD :fire



:rofl

I wasnt convinced earlier but now I am.

:rofl:rofl:rofl

['Ben']

you dont know much about it at all. wing chun and wushu r the best fighting styles ever.


:patsch

When it comes to fighting with your hands, boxing is clearly PROVEN to be the most effective way of fighting.

It's not a martial art that relies on 'dirty' fighting so why isn't it used in MMA.... because against someone who can actually fight it's useless. It's probably your entire life a a big part of it so sorry to ruin your day but you should take up a new martial art mate.:good

[snakey112]

UFC is a bunch of baloney... its rigged just like WWF and just like the XFL. Why do you think some ex WWF dude is champ right now. That mutherfawken shiet is some american bull shiet scam. You'll never see the real deal in that octogon because its controlled and rigged by some white guy whose prob suckin on coutures dick. How are you going to let couture hug his way to a victory over vera. I;ve never seen vera fight before until then, but he kicked coutures old fart ass. He was holding on to vera for dear life and then you hear Joe Rogen in the background talking the king of dirty boxing. cmon now... get off of couture's dick. He is sooooooooo over rated and way past due for retirement. Maybe yall need a class in wing chun because yall must be geting it confused with something else. If yall like grappling yall must be gay or in the army. hehehehehe

FYI

Im not flip you racist bastard

wow... I'm feeling pretty embarrassed for you right now...

please leave the computer and never post again

[UpperStr8]

and why should I listen to you?

you have nothing on me

but thanks for taking the time to read my post. Freaken no good loser.

Your prob a die hard mma fan who knows nothing but how to grapple.

Go watch somthing on youtube and tell me about it you freaken d-bag.

[snakey112]

and why should I listen to you?

you have nothing on me

but thanks for taking the time to read my post. Freaken no good loser.

Your prob a die hard mma fan who knows nothing but how to grapple.

Go watch somthing on youtube and tell me about it you freaken d-bag.

why the hell should anyone listen to YOU? you're probably some ignorant little bruce lee fanboy who has been brainwashed by inrealistic kung fu movies and thinks the shit they do in those movies actually works in real life.

the bullshit you are spewing is absolutely ridiculous, you're a complete fucking bellend if you think the UFC is staged and that wing chun fighters would beat them, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and are coming off as an immature little prick, please stop posting so that you don't embarrass yourself even further.

ufc = fake lmao give me a break

[Moneyman]

It depends on if there are rules or not. I am a Ni Dan in Karate and almost all the most effective things I would do in an actual fight are not legal in MMA. That being said all the most effective ground fighting moves are legal so in MMA ground fighting rules because the rules of MMA are slanted toward ground fighting.

In a real fight I'm not going to kick you above the waist, in fact your groin, knees, shins, and feet are going to be my primary targets with any kicks. All this is to get you off balance enough to land a strike to your eyes, nose, throat or sternam. Anyone of which could end a fight right there. Or if you throw first I'm going to try to intercept and break or dislocate elbows or shoulders. Almost all of what I have just mentioned is illegal in MMA.

[codeman99998]

It depends on if there are rules or not. I am a Ni Dan in Karate and almost all the most effective things I would do in an actual fight are not legal in MMA. That being said all the most effective ground fighting moves are legal so in MMA ground fighting rules because the rules of MMA are slanted toward ground fighting.

In a real fight I'm not going to kick you above the waist, in fact your groin, knees, shins, and feet are going to be my primary targets with any kicks. All this is to get you off balance enough to land a strike to your eyes, nose, throat or sternam. Anyone of which could end a fight right there. Or if you throw first I'm going to try to intercept and break or dislocate elbows or shoulders. Almost all of what I have just mentioned is illegal in MMA.

And how many times have you practiced your groin kicks and your eye pokes on a live resisting opponent?

I'm guessing about as many times as any MMA fighter. Kata won't help against someone who actually knows how to fight from practice with live sparring and full strength grappling. Do you honestly believe that you are a better groin kicker than any kickboxer would be? That it makes a difference?

[Moneyman]

On deployment I have used self defense techniques mentioned above on two instances. Both ended very quickly with me restraining the individual until others helped out. Guys MMA is a sport and any sport has rules if it were a true no holds barred fight they would end much quicker and people would be getting severely injured. The rules are in place to protect the fighters. I'm not saying grappling has no place in any fighting style, a certian amount of grappling is imcorporated into almost all martial arts, but grappling in of itself isn't the most effective thing in real world combat. Ending the encounter as fast as possible should be the goal because you never know when more bad guys will show up.

[codeman99998]

On deployment I have used self defense techniques mentioned above on two instances. Both ended very quickly with me restraining the individual until others helped out. Guys MMA is a sport and any sport has rules if it were a true no holds barred fight they would end much quicker and people would be getting severely injured. The rules are in place to protect the fighters. I'm not saying grappling has no place in any fighting style, a certian amount of grappling is imcorporated into almost all martial arts, but grappling in of itself isn't the most effective thing in real world combat. Ending the encounter as fast as possible should be the goal because you never know when more bad guys will show up.

Total bullshit. Tell Wanderlei that Vale Tudo was just a sport with tons of rules. Tell Joe Son Do that the early UFCs were just a "sport" with rules.

You don't know shit.:hi:

[Moneyman]

If you knew anything about actual self defense, and I mean real fighting, you'd know the last place you want to be in a fight is rolling around on the ground. What are you going to do when two of the guys friends show up? It does'nt matter how good you have that arm bar or rear naked choke sunk in if he has two buddies stabbing you in the sides while you are doing it. Most combat units learn enough ground fighting to fight their way back up to their feet and focus on team work and self defense skills that can help them nuetralize threats as soon as possible.

[ufoalf]

If you knew anything about actual self defense, and I mean real fighting, you'd know the last place you want to be in a fight is rolling around on the ground. What are you going to do when two of the guys friends show up? It does'nt matter how good you have that arm bar or rear naked choke sunk in if he has two buddies stabbing you in the sides while you are doing it. Most combat units learn enough ground fighting to fight their way back up to their feet and focus on team work and self defense skills that can help them nuetralize threats as soon as possible.

Fighting against multiple opponents with knifes is a lame factor. If we gona include these kind of factors than I'll just take a hand gun and you can do all your martial effing arts all you want while I shoot your ass with an Uzi.

[Chris85]

In a real fight, your main priority is to beat your opponent while standing up, whether his buddies are around or not. Sure fight could end up on the ground but its certainly something you dont want to be in. Because being on the ground give you less options, you cant just run if you need to, you cant pick objects to use as weapon or shield, a lamp post, trashcan, tree can all be useful in a shitty situation. And what if the buddies turn up, you stay on the ground and basically get stomped and kicked to death.

In the ring well, its different story...

But then even fighters in the ring dont like being on the ground unless its going to give them the advantage.

[Wige247]

you guys got nuts. my bad. i study wing chun and i enjoy the training alot. i fight mostly. i do very well n fights in the street and at my gym.

So if you're so good, get a contract w/ the UFC. If wing chung is such a leg up, then you should dominate like all the other MMA fighters who brought practical, but underused skills to the octagon.

Fact: MMA is mainstream

If Wing Chun is as effective as you say, either someone current would have incorporated it, or someone new would have stomped a mud hole through the comp & made a name. Either way, the result would have been the same: Gracie-like domination & exposure...:deal

[Wige247]

If you knew anything about actual self defense, and I mean real fighting, you'd know the last place you want to be in a fight is rolling around on the ground. What are you going to do when two of the guys friends show up? It does'nt matter how good you have that arm bar or rear naked choke sunk in if he has two buddies stabbing you in the sides while you are doing it. Most combat units learn enough ground fighting to fight their way back up to their feet and focus on team work and self defense skills that can help them nuetralize threats as soon as possible.

And? That's still not evidence that a your martial art is better than the proven ones in the MMA. Frankly, it's a cop out. "My MA is better, but I can't reallly show you b/c then I'd have to kill you..."

Your argument boils down to it's better b/c you avoid the ground game b/c you never know who'll turn up...:blood...instead of arguing mechanics & practicality.

Fact: most fights will devolve into grappling at some point. regardless of the style, once fighters get close, someone's going to try & grapple, if they're smart. What's your MA's defense against grappling? Against in-fighting? Against being in a disadvantaged position on the ground? Dominant position on the ground?

I've asked this a lot of times and a lot of the answers are along the lines of it wouldn't get there.

[codeman99998]

If you knew anything about actual self defense, and I mean real fighting, you'd know the last place you want to be in a fight is rolling around on the ground. What are you going to do when two of the guys friends show up? It does'nt matter how good you have that arm bar or rear naked choke sunk in if he has two buddies stabbing you in the sides while you are doing it. Most combat units learn enough ground fighting to fight their way back up to their feet and focus on team work and self defense skills that can help them nuetralize threats as soon as possible.

Whatever. The best real "street" self-defense is avoiding confrontations or track and field. You think your wing chun will help you against two guys with knives more than MMA will? I say both are inadequate, and any martial arts instructor worth his salt would tell you track and field is the best training in this situation.

[codeman99998]

And? That's still not evidence that a your martial art is better than the proven ones in the MMA. Frankly, it's a cop out. "My MA is better, but I can't reallly show you b/c then I'd have to kill you..."

Your argument boils down to it's better b/c you avoid the ground game b/c you never know who'll turn up...:blood...instead of arguing mechanics & practicality.

Fact: most fights will devolve into grappling at some point. regardless of the style, once fighters get close, someone's going to try & grapple, if they're smart. What's your MA's defense against grappling? Against in-fighting? Against being in a disadvantaged position on the ground? Dominant position on the ground?

I've asked this a lot of times and a lot of the answers are along the lines of it wouldn't get there.

But you don't understand, his Wing Chun will PREVENT the fighter from grappling him. All he has to do is not get taken down or get in the clinch and he will win. Just watch Gracies in Action and you will see how this approach worked when all of the other kung fu/wing chun/whatever guys tried it. It's very difficult to grab a hold of someone who doesn't know how to defend it. Grabbing someone is a very low percentage attack, after all.:roll:

[Chaney]

being on the ground give you less options, you cant just run if you need to, you cant pick objects to use as weapon or shield, a lamp post, trashcan, tree can all be useful in a shitty situation. And what if the buddies turn up, you stay on the ground and basically get stomped and kicked to death.Man, if you can uproot trees and lamp posts to use as weapons or shields...I don't think you need to worry about learning any martial art.

You could also try stomping on the ground to cause a shockwave that'll knock your opponent down. Just be careful not to accidentally kill him.

[ufoalf]

In a real fight, your main priority is to beat your opponent while standing up, whether his buddies are around or not. Sure fight could end up on the ground but its certainly something you dont want to be in. Because being on the ground give you less options, you cant just run if you need to, you cant pick objects to use as weapon or shield, a lamp post, trashcan, tree can all be useful in a shitty situation. And what if the buddies turn up, you stay on the ground and basically get stomped and kicked to death.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Chris85]

Man, if you can uproot trees and lamp posts to use as weapons or shields...I don't think you need to worry about learning any martial art.

You could also try stomping on the ground to cause a shockwave that'll knock your opponent down. Just be careful not to accidentally kill him.

Im not sure where you got the idea of uprooting trees/lampost. Using it as a temporary shield between you and the bad guy could be enough to save your life.

Have you ever lived in a country/place where your life is in constant danger? My cousin brother in law was stabbed to death recently for getting involved in a fight. My GF bro was put in prison because he was mistaken for a person who killed someone in a brawl. My sister in law uncle was involved in a dispute using machette, one of the guy had his arm chopped off. I seen alot of shit with my own eyes when I was a kid.

To get an idea where that was, look at the lastest masacre where loads of people were killed. To some people life is all about getting home alive, there is no entertainment out there.

Anyway enjoy your mma in a comfort of your home while you eat your burgers.

[Chris85]

I guess some people have absolutely no idea at all :-(

[ufoalf]

Im not sure where you got the idea of uprooting trees/lampost. Using it as a temporary shield between you and the bad guy could be enough to save your life.

Have you ever lived in a country/place where your life is in constant danger? My cousin brother in law was stabbed to death recently for getting involved in a fight. My GF bro was put in prison because he was mistaken for a person who killed someone in a brawl. My sister in law uncle was involved in a dispute using machette, one of the guy had his arm chopped off. I seen alot of shit with my own eyes when I was a kid.

To get an idea where that was, look at the lastest masacre where loads of people were killed. To some people life is all about getting home alive, there is no entertainment out there.

Anyway enjoy your mma in a comfort of your home while you eat your burgers.



Spare me sweetheart.

We're talking about actual logical application you're talking about going to war without a gun. Stop trying to prove your point by throwing it at extreme situations. No one is going in with martial arts into a gun fight genius. Get a fucking clue or get off your pedestal.

[Chris85]

Spare me sweetheart.

We're talking about actual logical application you're talking about going to war without a gun. Stop trying to prove your point by throwing it at extreme situations. No one is going in with martial arts into a gun fight genius. Get a fucking clue or get off your pedestal.

Gun? where did I mention gun? its you who brought out the gun out of no where in this thread. :patsch I was only saying that a real fight can involve any weapons and so must be prepared to use anything that comes along to gain advantage and not rolling on the ground. This is even more so if you live in a country where survival is a priority. Never though of using a trashcan to distract your opponent and ultimately end the fight or get away from it?

Have you ever been in a real fight? Even school kids fight with knife these days. Yeah I been in one where I was nearly stabbed in the neck. This was right outside my school. Lucky the PE teacher saw whats going and Im glad I lived. Did you expect me to take this guy on the ground while hes trusting the knife in my kidney? You do realise that anything can happen outside the ring, I have seen fight where a metal file was involved, this was straight after the metal work class we had.

I doubt you been in a life and death situation before. So exactly what is your logical application that you talk off? Mind giving us an example how you plan to survive a vicious attack on the street?

[Chaney]

Im not sure where you got the idea of uprooting trees/lampost. Using it as a temporary shield between you and the bad guy could be enough to save your life.

Have you ever lived in a country/place where your life is in constant danger? My cousin brother in law was stabbed to death recently for getting involved in a fight. My GF bro was put in prison because he was mistaken for a person who killed someone in a brawl. My sister in law uncle was involved in a dispute using machette, one of the guy had his arm chopped off. I seen alot of shit with my own eyes when I was a kid.

To get an idea where that was, look at the lastest masacre where loads of people were killed. To some people life is all about getting home alive, there is no entertainment out there.

Anyway enjoy your mma in a comfort of your home while you eat your burgers.I do agree with what you are saying (That groundfighting is potentially much more risky in an urban environment than in the MMA cage).

I hadn't read the whole thread...I just saw the opportunity to make a dumb joke and took it. When I first scanned your post I read it as "pick up objects to use as weapon, a lamp post or tree" (probably because I was a fan of the Incredible Hulk in my youth!). I apologise for the inappropriate joke...but I was just messing around, and meant no insult by it.

I have not had to face the dangers you describe, and I give thanks for that.

Take care of yourself out in the badlands. I hope things get better for you and your community.

[Chris85]

I do agree with what you are saying (That groundfighting is potentially much more risky in an urban environment than in the MMA cage).

I hadn't read the whole thread...I just saw the opportunity to make a dumb joke and took it. When I first scanned your post I read it as "pick up objects to use as weapon, a lamp post or tree" (probably because I was a fan of the Incredible Hulk in my youth!). I apologise for the inappropriate joke...but I just messing around, and meant no insult by it.

I have not had to face the dangers you describe, and I give thanks for that.

Take care of yourself out in the badlands. I hope things get better for you and your community.

NP dude, yeah I know, we all like to watch fight in the comfort of our home and thats including me. Im well aware of real life and death situation vs fight for entertainment, unfortunately many have never been and always think that mma = real streefight.

Saying that, the place I nearly got stab was in peckham, thats in london. The other event where bunch of hooded gangs threw bricks at my car, this was in north london rough area where drug dealing was going on. I was just probably at the wrong time and wrong place. I had no choice but to drive in reverse and get the fuck out as soon as possible.

This is why whenever I go out, day or night Im always cautious. Whenever walking pass a potential danger, I try to make sure when I pass them there is an object in between me and the danger, hence the lampost/tree/trashcan/car I mentioned earlier. Even walking into a blind corner, I walk in such a way Ill see whats there first before I commit going there. I dont want baseball wacked into my head and not knowing where it came from. This is an alley way near where I live, I can either walk through there which is shorter or walk around the block. I quick glance will tell me if I should walk around the block or not.

I know call me paranoid, but thats only because I grew in a rough country before moving to rough part of london, which is tame by miles.

[RDJ]

bruce lee vs dempsey would b a total mismatch. the speed difference is day and night. bruce lee would counter him and hurt him badly. bruce was trained in many arts forms and had a very good rear naked choke. in short bruce lee would have destroyed dempsey. it would not even b a fight dempsey was very slow with his punchs and footwork. its that simple. i honestly can say dempsey would not even b able to hit. fucking idiot. sheesh.

Holy fucking Jesus Christ on a bike :rofl :rofl :rofl

[Polymath]

Man, if you can uproot trees and lamp posts to use as weapons or shields...I don't think you need to worry about learning any martial art.

You could also try stomping on the ground to cause a shockwave that'll knock your opponent down. Just be careful not to accidentally kill him.

:rofl

[dublynflya]

Kidnap him and take him to a boxing or mma gym.

Show him Gracies in Action videos.

:lol:

[codeman99998]

Gun? where did I mention gun? its you who brought out the gun out of no where in this thread. I was only saying that a real fight can involve any weapons and so must be prepared to use anything that comes along to gain advantage and not rolling on the ground. This is even more so if you live in a country where survival is a priority. Never though of using a trashcan to distract your opponent and ultimately end the fight or get away from it?

Have you ever been in a real fight? Even school kids fight with knife these days. Yeah I been in one where I was nearly stabbed in the neck. This was right outside my school. Lucky the PE teacher saw whats going and Im glad I lived. Did you expect me to take this guy on the ground while hes trusting the knife in my kidney? You do realise that anything can happen outside the ring, I have seen fight where a metal file was involved, this was straight after the metal work class we had.

I doubt you been in a life and death situation before. So exactly what is your logical application that you talk off? Mind giving us an example how you plan to survive a vicious attack on the street?

You are probably an idiot to get into knife fights, but I'm starting to believe you less and less anyways. Besides, you are simply wrong. If there were stabbings happening all the time at local high schools the same way there are fist fights happening all the time at high schools it would be reported on in the news. Also, if you are confronted by someone with a knife and you use any MA for self defense before trying to defuse the situation without violence you are a class A moron. If you were simply attacked outright by a kid with a knife and he missed you than you're just lucky.

[Beebs]

You are talking about two different things one is talking about combat situations in foreign combat zone, the other being bar fights. Totally different scenarios.

[snakey112]

Gun? where did I mention gun? its you who brought out the gun out of no where in this thread. :patsch I was only saying that a real fight can involve any weapons and so must be prepared to use anything that comes along to gain advantage and not rolling on the ground. This is even more so if you live in a country where survival is a priority. Never though of using a trashcan to distract your opponent and ultimately end the fight or get away from it?

Have you ever been in a real fight? Even school kids fight with knife these days. Yeah I been in one where I was nearly stabbed in the neck. This was right outside my school. Lucky the PE teacher saw whats going and Im glad I lived. Did you expect me to take this guy on the ground while hes trusting the knife in my kidney? You do realise that anything can happen outside the ring, I have seen fight where a metal file was involved, this was straight after the metal work class we had.

I doubt you been in a life and death situation before. So exactly what is your logical application that you talk off? Mind giving us an example how you plan to survive a vicious attack on the street?

uhh, MMA doesn't purely consist of grappling you know, that's only 50% of it.

and I don't think anyone really believes that MMA is a complete representation of a real street fight with knives involved.

[mgmark7]

You are probably an idiot to get into knife fights, but I'm starting to believe you less and less anyways. Besides, you are simply wrong. If there were stabbings happening all the time at local high schools the same way there are fist fights happening all the time at high schools it would be reported on in the news. Also, if you are confronted by someone with a knife and you use any MA for self defense before trying to defuse the situation without violence you are a class A moron. If you were simply attacked outright by a kid with a knife and he missed you than you're just lucky.

The lad mentions living in or being in Peckham London in another post. He is right about the knife carrying and stabbings taking place. Its regularly reported in the press here, check the London Evening Standard for reports or the South London Press. I believe the current figures for reported stabbings are about 2 per day. There is a big drive to try and deal with this problem with some of our kids. I lived with my ex girlfriend in Walworth close to Peckham and now live in South Bermondsey. One of the worst incidents was when two 11 year olds where stabbed by a 15 year old. Many young kids round here carry knives for protection. Guns are used regularly. Punishment stabbings and shootings for believed 'lack of respect' happen from time to time and have a devastating effect on families and the community.

[ufoalf]

Gun? where did I mention gun? its you who brought out the gun out of no where in this thread. :patsch I was only saying that a real fight can involve any weapons and so must be prepared to use anything that comes along to gain advantage and not rolling on the ground. This is even more so if you live in a country where survival is a priority. Never though of using a trashcan to distract your opponent and ultimately end the fight or get away from it?

Have you ever been in a real fight? Even school kids fight with knife these days. Yeah I been in one where I was nearly stabbed in the neck. This was right outside my school. Lucky the PE teacher saw whats going and Im glad I lived. Did you expect me to take this guy on the ground while hes trusting the knife in my kidney? You do realize that anything can happen outside the ring, I have seen fight where a metal file was involved, this was straight after the metal work class we had.

I doubt you been in a life and death situation before. So exactly what is your logical application that you talk off? Mind giving us an example how you plan to survive a vicious attack on the street?

:patsch
Dude spare me your life stories. I'm not your therapist. Who's this us you're talking about? I've been around similar shit, that's why I don't mind living in America now.

You aint that bright if you trying to take someone down while fighting against multiple of opponents same way you arn't that smart to fight someone with a knife with your boxing. This shit is common sense and you don't have to preach that shit to me or anyone else. Anyone with a half brain realizes this.

I feel for your situation. Sorry you have to go though that.
That said, stop taking "real fight" so close to heart. You're simply misinterpreting what is meant by it. Common sense: for the purposes of comparing two MARTIAL ARTS that use NO WEAPONS "real fight" means use of least rules.
If I say a "real fight" to someone who lives in South Africa he'd be laughing at your little knify-knify fights that you're bitching about while he's walking around with an AK47 on his shoulder and a jackal on a leash, not to mention being a 14 y.o boy.

[mgmark7]

:patsch
If I say a "real fight" to someone who lives in South Africa he'd be laughing at your little knify-knify fights that you're bitching about while he's walking around with an AK47 on his shoulder and a jackal on a leash, not to mention being a 14 y.o boy.

If there was the access to the weaponary you could repeat that anywhere in the world. A stab wound in the right place will kill you as much as a bullet from a gun.

Fighting for sport as you say is different from real (street) fighting. Best to learn to run and get the fuck away as fast as you can.

[Chris85]

You are probably an idiot to get into knife fights, but I'm starting to believe you less and less anyways. Besides, you are simply wrong. If there were stabbings happening all the time at local high schools the same way there are fist fights happening all the time at high schools it would be reported on in the news. Also, if you are confronted by someone with a knife and you use any MA for self defense before trying to defuse the situation without violence you are a class A moron. If you were simply attacked outright by a kid with a knife and he missed you than you're just lucky.

Its funny how you came up with all your assumption which make you more of an idiot. Im not here to impress you with my real life experience, I believe in take or leave it basis and I aint feeding you bullshit.

Just in case you want to know the answer, well you partly answered it yourself >

If you were simply attacked outright by a kid with a knife and he missed you than you're just lucky.

I dont even understand why theres alot of hate in this forum. People talk like the knew everything and anything :-(

[Chris85]

The lad mentions living in or being in Peckham London in another post. He is right about the knife carrying and stabbings taking place. Its regularly reported in the press here, check the London Evening Standard for reports or the South London Press. I believe the current figures for reported stabbings are about 2 per day. There is a big drive to try and deal with this problem with some of our kids. I lived with my ex girlfriend in Walworth close to Peckham and now live in South Bermondsey. One of the worst incidents was when two 11 year olds where stabbed by a 15 year old. Many young kids round here carry knives for protection. Guns are used regularly. Punishment stabbings and shootings for believed 'lack of respect' happen from time to time and have a devastating effect on families and the community.

Im glad you knew what I was talking about. I actually used to go to peckham manor school which then became warwick park school. I seen alot of crazy shit in that school. One of my class mate was slashed on his leg while fighting with another kid (14-15yo if I remember well). This was right outside the school. Kids will have duel where they fight with knives and slash each other, lucky I managed to avoid all that shit. I was no angel either, I stabbed a guy with a pencil in the back and broke it. This was years ago and maybe things have changed in that school now.

But I do know there was shooting a year ago in new cross where a polish girl was shot dead. This is around the corner from my flat. Another incident where a passerby died by newcross road. Most where drug dealers of some sort killing rivals.

This is the problem with some people in the forum, just because they talk BS, they assume everyone is like them.

[ufoalf]

If there was the access to the weaponary you could repeat that anywhere in the world. A stab wound in the right place will kill you as much as a bullet from a gun.

Fighting for sport as you say is different from real (street) fighting. Best to learn to run and get the fuck away as fast as you can.

Well the access isn't the same, and situations are different and that's the point.
It has to be understood that you can't take things out of context. What a real fight for me is not real for him and is not real for someone from like South African(or w/e u want).
I don't want to stab or shoot anyone. If I do I know I will be punished for my crime either legally or simply living with having killed someone. On the other hand if I have to fight for my or someone elses safety I'd rather know MMA than any single combat art.

[Chris85]

:patsch
Dude spare me your life stories. I'm not your therapist. Who's this us you're talking about? I've been around similar shit, that's why I don't mind living in America now.

You aint that bright if you trying to take someone down while fighting against multiple of opponents same way you arn't that smart to fight someone with a knife with your boxing. This shit is common sense and you don't have to preach that shit to me or anyone else. Anyone with a half brain realizes this.

I feel for your situation. Sorry you have to go though that.
That said, stop taking "real fight" so close to heart. You're simply misinterpreting what is meant by it. Common sense: for the purposes of comparing two MARTIAL ARTS that use NO WEAPONS "real fight" means use of least rules.
If I say a "real fight" to someone who lives in South Africa he'd be laughing at your little knify-knify fights that you're bitching about while he's walking around with an AK47 on his shoulder and a jackal on a leash, not to mention being a 14 y.o boy.

Dude, you sound very defensive, I dont even know why, I aint even attacking you. :patsch

I seriouly doubt you seen alot of shit out there, because if you have, you will understand what Im on about like the other guy.

[ufoalf]

Im glad you knew what I was talking about. I actually used to go to peckham manor school which then became warwick park school. I seen alot of crazy shit in that school. One of my class mate was slashed on his leg while fighting with another kid (14-15yo if I remember well). This was right outside the school. Kids will have duel where they fight with knives and slash each other, lucky I managed to avoid all that shit. I was no angel either, I stabbed a guy with a pencil in the back and broke it. This was years ago and maybe things have changed in that school now.

But I do know there was shooting a year ago in new cross where a polish girl was shot dead. This is around the corner from my flat. Another incident where a passerby died by newcross road. Most where drug dealers of some sort killing rivals.

This is the problem with some people in the forum, just because they talk BS, they assume everyone is like them.

You're the one who can't stop spilling your life story to us. This conversation deviated from you saying that your goal is to finish the fight standing up wether opponent's buddies are around or not. I'm saying it's total bullshit. Then you start singing your it's-a-hard-knock-life tune to us and that we don't know shit. Well you have to stop assuming that you have it the hardest and you act as if you do. There are plenty of people around the world who have it harder and I'm sure people around these forums have been through what you've been through or worse. Stop feeding us this(yes you do) hard-knock-life shit to prove your point by us realizing how hard your life is. These are 2 different subjects. If you wanna talk about knifes we'll talk about knifes, stop deviating the subject to suit you.

The fight will go where it goes and you have to know your shit around every situation and hopefully know how to control where the situation goes. The ground gives you less options if you don't wtf you're doing on the ground, that's why it's important to know that aspect and when you're facing a single person and you know your way around the ground you are the authority because most people don't know what to do there. While standing up everyone has a punchers chance.

[Chris85]

On the other hand if I have to fight for my or someone elses safety I'd rather know MMA than any single combat art.

LOL :rofl

Its that all you want to say? no one is stopping you from doing MMA.

You will find its pretty common for any serious martial artist to cross train. I dont think you will find any MMA class who does weapon defense such as knife work, they are pretty much clue less when handling shitty situation. :hi:

[Chris85]

You're the one who can't stop spilling your life story to us. This conversation deviated from you saying that your goal is to finish the fight standing up wether opponent's buddies are around or not. I'm saying it's total bullshit.

Funniest shit I ever seen in the forum, so Mr MMA, tell me what exactly would you do if you were confronted on the street?

Before you tell me you gonna roll him on the floor, let me remind you that the ground is not soft, you could be hitting solid concrete. Dont forget that rolling on the road could get you run over.

Oh the dog shit too. :lol:

[ufoalf]

Dude, you sound very defensive, I dont even know why, I aint even attacking you. :patsch

I seriouly doubt you seen alot of shit out there, because if you have, you will understand what Im on about like the other guy.

Listen I'm not gona tell about what I've seen and what I haven't seen. Me saying what I have should not make a difference for this conversation. Instead of judging people by what they've seen have a normal conversation outside the box.
Again sorry you live in a rough town. I'm sure it sucks and I'm sure it's your reality, but the fact is that is not part of the subject that we're discussing.

[ufoalf]

Funniest shit I ever seen in the forum, so Mr MMA, tell me what exactly would you do if you were confronted on the street?

Before you tell me you gonna roll him on the floor, let me remind you that the ground is not soft, you could be hitting solid concrete. Dont forget that rolling on the road could get you run over.

Oh the dog shit too. :lol:

Wow.

This conversation is over.

[Chris85]

Listen I'm not gona tell about what I've seen and what I haven't seen. Me saying what I have should not make a difference for this conversation. Instead of judging people but what they've seen have a normal conversation outside the box.
Again sorry you live in a rough town. I'm sure it sucks and I'm sure it's your reality, but the fact is that is not part of the subject that we're discussing.

You sound very very angry indeed. Anyway enjoy your monologue, have a nice day :hi:

[Beebs]

For the record takedowns onto asphalt or concrete are even better than in a ring. I ended up with a scar on my knee, he ended up getting his head slammed on the sidewalk; I'll take that.

It's a fight, your likely going to get a little damage; I will gladly take a knee scrape for the opportunity to be able to land headbutts with concrete under the bad guys head. Non trained people will let you posture up, they will try to grab your wrists. It not like I couldn't have stood up either, most people in the street don't have a black belt level closed guard. Even a decent BJJ guy can get stacked and just have the guy on top walk out.

If I was more confident in my throws, I could have knocked him cold with just the takedown.

But again; there are two types of "real" fights being talked about.

A engagement with an enemy combatant in a war zone is not the same as a street fight; the reasons why are too long to list.

[Chaney]

I am not speaking from a position of any expertise...

but I always assumed that Judo would be very useful in a street situation.

Unlike in MMA, people in the street wear clothes to grab onto.

One good throw into the asphalt (quite different from the soft gym mat, as Beebs has pointed out), and I'd imagine your attacker would be winded enough for you to make a get away.

In the street it's not about KO'ing an attacker. It's about getting away as unscathed as possible.

[BlueApollo]

Beebs, thanks for the posts. I stopped at about page 5, but I'm going to catch up tomorrow.

Martial arts history is fascinating.

[boxon123]

i would suggest you study alot more. bruce has zero fights? seriously you dont know anything about martial arts. There is only one occasion were lee talks of having a real fight.He was stunned at how hard it was to defeat a real opponent. How long it took to win a fight and how much BS he had been taught. FACT Whether you like it or not!

[sugarngold]

Re: Throws in combat.

In our old dojo we always said that "nothing hits you harder than the ground" and that shit is true too. If you've ever landed on your head playing football or in training you know what I'm talking about. Landing on one's head fucks you up - takes your senses away. The average person on the street has no idea how to break their fall without even breaking their arms much less lessening the impact of the fall.

[Chris85]

For the record takedowns onto asphalt or concrete are even better than in a ring. I ended up with a scar on my knee, he ended up getting his head slammed on the sidewalk; I'll take that.

I agree that you can use the hard surface to your advantage. But this is only true if you are better than the person you are fighting. What if the bad guy is better than you and use the hard ground to smash your head on instead, surely the conrete wont benefit you in anyway, it benefit him.

Its like saying I like to fight in water because I can swim, sure a person can swim is most likely to win the fight than the person who strugle to swim. What if the bad guy is a better swimmer than you are? That is something you wouldnt know until the fight is over.

I know someone been doing MMA and though he could take anyone down on the street in any situation. Until he got his ass handed to him by the better man on the street. Obviously he has got the wrong mentality.

I tend to avoid discussion like these as it has a habbit of turning nasty, but I read many of your post and I enjoy them.

[achillesthegreat]

MMA produces the best fighters in the world minus 'the anything can happen' factor. Those pot luck victories cannot be accounted cos even Brock Lesnar and Fedor would lose if they got their finger broken or stabbed in the neck. However most pro fighters have shown they can fight on with broken arms, ribs, noses etc so even then the fighter would still win.

MMA pretty much shows the best a fighter can be. The only thing people can complain about is them not kicking on the ground etc but believe you me Wanderlei, Fedor and co would stomp the shit out of somebodies head in a street fight if they had to.

Would I take Fedor or some big oaf who has years of street fighting experience who knows all the street tricks. I'd take Fedor cause as an athlete 99% of the time he wouldn't let an unskilled opponent get away with cheap tricks. The guy would be down and out quick.

Using weapons is a whole different ball game.

[codeman99998]

I agree that you can use the hard surface to your advantage. But this is only true if you are better than the person you are fighting. What if the bad guy is better than you and use the hard ground to smash your head on instead, surely the conrete wont benefit you in anyway, it benefit him.

Its like saying I like to fight in water because I can swim, sure a person can swim is most likely to win the fight than the person who strugle to swim. What if the bad guy is a better swimmer than you are? That is something you wouldnt know until the fight is over.

I know someone been doing MMA and though he could take anyone down on the street in any situation. Until he got his ass handed to him by the better man on the street. Obviously he has got the wrong mentality.

I tend to avoid discussion like these as it has a habbit of turning nasty, but I read many of your post and I enjoy them.

:lol: @ "Sure it's best to win by using your greater fighting skill, but what happens when you get into a fight with a better fighter" as if that doesn't apply to every MA.

[ufoalf]

:lol: @ "Sure it's best to win by using your greater fighting skill, but what happens when you get into a fight with a better fighter" as if that doesn't apply to every MA.

This cat deviates from the subject and the topic so much I dunno how he can even communicate. I dunno if it's ADHD or what.

I'm certain he's gona start bringing machinery into it quite soon. Questions: "What is the effectiveness of different MA's in a street fight?". Chris96: "What if they have a tank?! Your grappling is useless! I've been stabbed before so you're wrong and I'm right." :roll:

[Wilhelm]

bruce lee vs dempsey would b a total mismatch. the speed difference is day and night. bruce lee would counter him and hurt him badly. bruce was trained in many arts forms and had a very good rear naked choke. in short bruce lee would have destroyed dempsey. it would not even b a fight dempsey was very slow with his punchs and footwork. its that simple. i honestly can say dempsey would not even b able to hit. fucking idiot. sheesh.

Jesus christ dude. Get a grip.

As for the Dempsey combat manual, I've looked through it before and it seems like maybe a lot of that stuff was taught to him the day before the photo shoot so that he could be the guy in the manual and make it more popular with the soldiers. Dempsey had done plenty of street fighting and I'm sure knew all sorts of dirty tricks, but a lot of those are clear judo/sub holds.

Anyway, this has to be about the thousandth thread like this I've seen and they all come down to HOW YOU TRAIN. I'd pick amateur boxers over kung fu guys 95% of the time for no other reason than the fact that 100% of amateur boxers spar hard and open regularly and very few kung fu places do. Same with TKD. If you're at a place that teaches "traditional animal style kung fu" and you spar all the time and train hard and actually know how to hit a moving target that's firing back, you're fine. My brother in law does all sorts of kung fu stuff and is really into all that chi garbage, but he also spars and grapples and works really hard at his gym and gets beat up and bruised and injured all the time. When he's needed to use his stuff in a "real" fight, he's done very well for himself. If TKD tournaments had less padding and didn't go on points and the point was to hurt the guy until he couldn't fight, TKD would be a lot more well regarded as a good MA for street fighting than it is now. Of course, then it would be a lot less lucritive and have a lot fewer kids doing it. So, basically, it would be kickboxing or Thai boxing or some such thing. If there's some people out there who really go the whole hog with wing chun and spar all the time, I'm sure they can do well on the street. Whether or not they will beat up someone who has done boxing or kickboxing or whatever has a lot to do with athleticism and time spent and a lot less to do with the "style".

One thing everyone needs to man up and admit though is that if the mma craze has showed nothing else, it has shown that large body movements against large parts of your opponents body (moving your whole body against their legs or torso for a takedown or throw for example) are a lot more high percentage than strikes with small parts of your body against small and mobile parts of your opponent (punches or eye jabs against a moving head). If you're going to be good at just one thing and you're going to hope that it can get you out of a fight, it's better to have it be getting close and throwing them to the ground. It's been shown over and over again that even very skilled strikers can't drop guys that are good wrestlers before they get taken down and then they're screwed. If you can end it on the feet with punches and kicks and eye jabs then good for you. But it's a lot easier for an unskilled person to avoid getting punched even by a good puncher than it is for an unskilled person to avoid getting taken down or thrown by a skilled person.

[ufoalf]

JBut it's a lot harder for an unskilled person to avoid getting punched even by a good puncher than it is for an unskilled person to avoid getting taken down or thrown by a skilled person.

:lol: That makes sense especially after everything you said prior to that :).

[Beebs]

I agree that you can use the hard surface to your advantage. But this is only true if you are better than the person you are fighting. What if the bad guy is better than you and use the hard ground to smash your head on instead, surely the conrete wont benefit you in anyway, it benefit him.

Its like saying I like to fight in water because I can swim, sure a person can swim is most likely to win the fight than the person who strugle to swim. What if the bad guy is a better swimmer than you are? That is something you wouldnt know until the fight is over.

I know someone been doing MMA and though he could take anyone down on the street in any situation. Until he got his ass handed to him by the better man on the street. Obviously he has got the wrong mentality.

I tend to avoid discussion like these as it has a habbit of turning nasty, but I read many of your post and I enjoy them.


Well thank you, but I'm not sure I understand. The "it only works that way if you're better than the other guy" idea applies to everything; if I stand and box it is only going to work if the other guy isn't a better boxer.

[Wilhelm]

:lol: That makes sense especially after everything you said prior to that :).

Whoops. I meant to say it's a lot EASIER. Time for an edit...

[codeman99998]

This cat deviates from the subject and the topic so much I dunno how he can even communicate. I dunno if it's ADHD or what.

I'm certain he's gona start bringing machinery into it quite soon. Questions: "What is the effectiveness of different MA's in a street fight?". Chris96: "What if they have a tank?! Your grappling is useless! I've been stabbed before so you're wrong and I'm right." :roll:

One time I saw a fight between a good MMA fighter and a wizard and the wizard used his magic to win. Grappling doesn't work against wizards!:lol:

[snakey112]

The fight will go where it goes and you have to know your shit around every situation and hopefully know how to control where the situation goes. The ground gives you less options if you don't wtf you're doing on the ground, that's why it's important to know that aspect and when you're facing a single person and you know your way around the ground you are the authority because most people don't know what to do there. While standing up everyone has a punchers chance.

qft

[snakey112]

I agree that you can use the hard surface to your advantage. But this is only true if you are better than the person you are fighting. What if the bad guy is better than you and use the hard ground to smash your head on instead, surely the conrete wont benefit you in anyway, it benefit him.

Its like saying I like to fight in water because I can swim, sure a person can swim is most likely to win the fight than the person who strugle to swim. What if the bad guy is a better swimmer than you are? That is something you wouldnt know until the fight is over.

I know someone been doing MMA and though he could take anyone down on the street in any situation. Until he got his ass handed to him by the better man on the street. Obviously he has got the wrong mentality.

I tend to avoid discussion like these as it has a habbit of turning nasty, but I read many of your post and I enjoy them.

yes but 99% of people who get into street fights aren't trained, so they won't be better than him

[UpperStr8]

why the hell should anyone listen to YOU? you're probably some ignorant little bruce lee fanboy who has been brainwashed by inrealistic kung fu movies and thinks the shit they do in those movies actually works in real life.

the bullshit you are spewing is absolutely ridiculous, you're a complete fucking bellend if you think the UFC is staged and that wing chun fighters would beat them, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and are coming off as an immature little prick, please stop posting so that you don't embarrass yourself even further.

ufc = fake lmao give me a break
you prob like grappling and watching WWF, your tha mucho man with a super medium shirt on that says affliction and maybe even a big poster of randy couture in your closet so that nobody notice like a real snake. Your favorite wrestler use to be THE ROCK but now its Jon Cena or did I spell that right. You can go fuck yourself while practicing your grappling technique.

[UpperStr8]

Let me tell you why grappling doesnt work in a real fight:

1) if your trying to arm bar me your gonna get your eyes poked out
2) if you come any where near my legs your gonna hurt yourself.
3) If you like wrestling your gonna get dropped and pommel horse to the dome.
4) If you wanna win by submittion then good luck searching
5) Bottom line, if your a big slow stiff ball then your not gonna see it coming. G'nite

[Chris85]

yes but 99% of people who get into street fights aren't trained, so they won't be better than him

And the 1% are the MMA fan :lol: Well atleast someone answered my qs, it was a legit too.

:good

[Chris85]

This cat deviates from the subject and the topic so much I dunno how he can even communicate. I dunno if it's ADHD or what.

I'm certain he's gona start bringing machinery into it quite soon. Questions: "What is the effectiveness of different MA's in a street fight?". Chris96: "What if they have a tank?! Your grappling is useless! I've been stabbed before so you're wrong and I'm right." :roll:

You still butt hurt? :hey

[Chris85]

One time I saw a fight between a good MMA fighter and a wizard and the wizard used his magic to win. Grappling doesn't work against wizards!:lol:

You are probably an idiot to get into knife fights, but I'm starting to believe you less and less anyways. Besides, you are simply wrong. If there were stabbings happening all the time at local high schools the same way there are fist fights happening all the time at high schools it would be reported on in the news. Also, if you are confronted by someone with a knife and you use any MA for self defense before trying to defuse the situation without violence you are a class A moron. If you were simply attacked outright by a kid with a knife and he missed you than you're just lucky.

Oh the dumbass who reckon that anyone who got into a knife fight is a moron :lol:

You obviouly havent been around, you are more of a moron by assuming alot of thing you dont know. Most of the time a person with a knife aint gonna wave it at you. You wouldnt even know if knife is going to be involved until the first slash or stab. Get that in your head.

You do realise that majority of fight involving knife goes unreported unless someone got hurt. Even if it was reported to the police it prolly wont make it to the news.

Your lack of knowledge and experience shows. You are now a certified class A+++ moron. Enjoy your new title, proudly wear it :good

[codeman99998]

Oh the dumbass who reckon that anyone who got into a knife fight is a moron :lol:

You obviouly havent been around, you are more of a moron by assuming alot of thing you dont know. Most of the time a person with a knife aint gonna wave it at you. You wouldnt even know if knife is going to be involved until the first slash or stab. Get that in your head.

You do realise that majority of fight involving knife goes unreported unless someone got hurt. Even if it was reported to the police it prolly wont make it to the news.

Your lack of knowledge and experience shows. You are now a certified class A+++ moron. Enjoy your new title, proudly wear it :good

I didn't say anyone who gets into a knife fight is a moron. I said YOU are a moron.

Anyways, I'm done with this thread. I concede you are the more badass keyboard warrior. Hell, I bet you have thirty scalps at home to prove it. Either way, I am confident that I am right and you are a moron that can not be persuaded.

[Chris85]

I am confident that I am right and you are a moron that can not be persuaded.

You are right, where? :rofl Persuade me to do exactly what? be a moron like you? :patsch

Oh let me remind you again, you will not see the knife, you will only see it after it had your blood on its blade. Thats reality dude, non of those movie where the butterfly knife is flicked about for your entertainment :hi:

[Beebs]

Let me tell you why grappling doesnt work in a real fight:

1) if your trying to arm bar me your gonna get your eyes poked out
2) if you come any where near my legs your gonna hurt yourself.
3) If you like wrestling your gonna get dropped and pommel horse to the dome.
4) If you wanna win by submittion then good luck searching
5) Bottom line, if your a big slow stiff ball then your not gonna see it coming. G'nite

I can fight just as dirty, only I will also have dominant position and actual skill.

Reach for my eyes, it just is going to give me an arm to break or my two fists, elbows, and head with your one arm for protection.

I'm not looking for a "submission", I'm looking to get a dominant position and either pound your face in, choke you with unconscious or to death, or break a limb and then go back to the first two. You don't get to tap out.

You are every reason why grappling works, because people has the dumbest ideas about how a fight on the ground works. Your "anti-grappling" just doesn't work; you won't stop the takedown, you won't just be able to spaz out and overpower me, you won't be able to use dirty tactics, you will just piss me off and open yourself up by trying.

[196osh]

You are every reason why grappling works, because people has the dumbest ideas about how a fight on the ground works. Your "anti-grappling" just doesn't work; you won't stop the takedown, you won't just be able to spaz out and overpower me, you won't be able to use dirty tactics, you will just piss me off and open yourself up by trying.

:yep

[achillesthegreat]

Grappling doesn't work on the street. What sort of rubbish is that. The truth is a trained fighter will have ease with the sort of rubbish presented on a street. Everything that benefits a street fighter i.e. concrete floor, kicking the balls etc, is available for the trained fighter.

Sure, you can kick Cro Cop in the balls but then if he kicks in the balls with actual technique you are fucked ten times worse than he is if you kick him.

A skilled fighter beats a street fighter in the street always. Fedor fucks up all men on the street.

[ufoalf]

Let me tell you why grappling doesnt work in a real fight:

1) if your trying to arm bar me your gonna get your eyes poked out
2) if you come any where near my legs your gonna hurt yourself.
3) If you like wrestling your gonna get dropped and pommel horse to the dome.
4) If you wanna win by submittion then good luck searching
5) Bottom line, if your a big slow stiff ball then your not gonna see it coming. G'nite

I'm so glad people still think that.

[Wilhelm]

Grappling doesn't work on the street. What sort of rubbish is that. The truth is a trained fighter will have ease with the sort of rubbish presented on a street. Everything that benefits a street fighter i.e. concrete floor, kicking the balls etc, is available for the trained fighter.

Sure, you can kick Cro Cop in the balls but then if he kicks in the balls with actual technique you are fucked ten times worse than he is if you kick him.

A skilled fighter beats a street fighter in the street always. Fedor fucks up all men on the street.

:good

Really, this type of stupid thread is a nice way of fleshing out the people who have actually tried to box/kickbox in the normal way against someone who is trying to clinch you and take you down and those who OBVIOUSLY haven't. Now we know whose "experience" to ignore when actual interesting questions come up.

[Chris85]

LOL I liked how the professional fighter is compared against someone who hasnt got a clue how to fight. Regardless of the technique used the pro fighter is most likely to win. The athletism of these guys even not knowing how to fight is a massive advantage already.

Ever seen a thug who beats the shit out of a martial artist? Put a typical MMA student against a rough person and the result may be surprising. I seen them guys who turn up in a class and put the majority to shame.

So what does this tell us? is it the art more superior or is it the man doing the fighting?

[codeman99998]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[UpperStr8]

I can fight just as dirty, only I will also have dominant position and actual skill.

Reach for my eyes, it just is going to give me an arm to break or my two fists, elbows, and head with your one arm for protection.

I'm not looking for a "submission", I'm looking to get a dominant position and either pound your face in, choke you with unconscious or to death, or break a limb and then go back to the first two. You don't get to tap out.

You are every reason why grappling works, because people has the dumbest ideas about how a fight on the ground works. Your "anti-grappling" just doesn't work; you won't stop the takedown, you won't just be able to spaz out and overpower me, you won't be able to use dirty tactics, you will just piss me off and open yourself up by trying.
First of all, you sound retarded. So there is one thing that might scare me away because retards can get pretty ruthless, but if you in any way spark any sort of emotions of mine, you gonna see your life flash before you.

There will be no grappling involved. How are you going to utlize your ground game when there is nothing for you to grapple? you can grapple all you want its not gonna work your just gonna eat a few jabs and side kicks. Just some food for thought.

If you try your WWF grappling on a real fighter your gonna get your face ripped apart and there are a few ways of doing this not just by poking the eye out. I can finger your nose and rip it apart, I can grab your radar ears and join it with my fist until you dont notice yourself, and if you have hair your in trouble or your gonna get skinned, indian style.

You prob grapple with a bunch of losers thats prob why you think you can grapple.

If you know anything about fighting or if your a true fan, you know that when 2 well known grapplers fight it almost never ends by the grapple. Just like in a real fight you can assume that your opponenet knows how to fight thats prob why he's willing to fight. Stupid shiet go practice some more and come back and tell me what you learned.

[Beebs]

Just :lol: at you.

First off I'm not trying to be personal, when I say "me" or "I" I mean any competant grappler, not myself fighting yourself.

A grappler can do all those dirty tricks too, he will just be able to do them from a dominant position? Nothing to grapple? You have a body right? You can't dissapear into thin air right? The grappler who spends large amounts of time takig down resisting opponents is going to be better at taking you down because you don't train stopping a takedown. Also it is much easier to grab sombody (with your face in a safe position FYI) than it is to knock some one out first shot every shot; just basic physics and anatomy.

Dirty fighting is not going to help you more than it is going to hurt you; your like the guy who says "oh I'd just flip out and headbutt and bite that boxer in a real fight" no dummy, he's trained, you aren't, be as dirty as you want, he is just as mean but has real skill behind it.

Instead of believing you can eye gouge or whatever (again, I want you to go for that, you're giving me your arm and letting me posture up), go train a few basic escapes from bottom, a few punch block/posture controll drills, and some actual takedown defense (sprawl, double underhooks, wizzer, switch) and then you might be this grappler killer you imagine youself to be.

Do you want to rely on a hail Mary, or do you want to be able to feel comfortable enough off your back to get up or at least protect yourself?

It's like depending on kicking a guy in the nuts in a strikin contest; it's a nice tool to have, but he does it better and has actual experience and skill beyond that one or two trick. Would you rely on a nutshut to beat a decent kickboxer? It's the same scenario, butthe grappler is in a much better position to seriously injure or kill you, plus most people have some idea of how striking basically works, most have no clue about the reality of how grappling works.

Biting, hair pulling, nut grabbing, eye gouging aren't going to get that guy off you, it's going to piss him off and expose you because you are making fundamental positional mistakes that he has been trained thousands of times to finish.

[Chris85]

Just :lol: at you.

First off I'm not trying to be personal, when I say "me" or "I" I mean any competant grappler, not myself fighting yourself.

A grappler can do all those dirty tricks too, he will just be able to do them from a dominant position? Nothing to grapple? You have a body right? You can't dissapear into thin air right? The grappler who spends large amounts of time takig down resisting opponents is going to be better at taking you down because you don't train stopping a takedown. Also it is much easier to grab sombody (with your face in a safe position FYI) than it is to knock some one out first shot every shot; just basic physics and anatomy.

Dirty fighting is not going to help you more than it is going to hurt you; your like the guy who says "oh I'd just flip out and headbutt and bite that boxer in a real fight" no dummy, he's trained, you aren't, be as dirty as you want, he is just as mean but has real skill behind it.

Instead of believing you can eye gouge or whatever (again, I want you to go for that, you're giving me your arm and letting me posture up), go train a few basic escapes from bottom, a few punch block/posture controll drills, and some actual takedown defense (sprawl, double underhooks, wizzer, switch) and then you might be this grappler killer you imagine youself to be.

Do you want to rely on a hail Mary, or do you want to be able to feel comfortable enough off your back to get up or at least protect yourself.

You still need skills to apply dirty tricks. A naturally dirty fighter would have a better chance of winning the fight than the person who hardly use any trick. If you watch some thai boxings, notice that most thai tend to fight more rough than lets say a european fighter. Thats probably because them thai were conditioned to fight like that and it all comes natural.

Have you eye gouge someone in the street before? most likely not. If you do have a fight in certain country you will find that nasty trick is very common.

I was once watching a sparing in a TKD class. A black belt vs a female beginer. First kick she threw was a kick in a nut and it was game over. Why because? it wasnt expected. The black belt didnt expect a low blow and hence wasnt protecting himself. You cant protect yourself from any form of trick if you are unaware and dont practice them yourself.

I see alot of people claim they can defend against a knife when they dont even know how to use a knife. :patsch

[codeman99998]

Most people don't even attempt to eye gouge in street fights anyways. That goes back to Beebs' earlier point about the difference between a street fight and a warzone combat situation.

[Beebs]

So you believe this guy is training his hair pulling and eye gouging on live opponents? As for the TKD class; he wasn't expecting it because he was practicing a sport, expecting it to go by the rules; a street fight does not induce that same sense or fair play.

Most grapplers do train against dirty tactics, it's why there are so many set ups you learn in the first few months that involve things like the arm triangle when they put their hands near your face, it's why it's constantly drilled to keep your eyes out of reach by looking away from the trapped arm in the arm triangle, to keep your head against theirs during the RNC.

99/100 times the guy with the better mix of skill, size, and conditioning is going to win; a grappler is going to have 2/3 of those pretty much every time.

[Chris85]

Most people don't eye gouge in street fights anyways. That goes back to Beebs' earlier point about the difference between a street fight and a warzone combat situation.

Like I said, this depends on who you fighting, doesnt have to be warzone. If someone is willing to stab you with a knife, whats preventing them from gouging your eye out if they havent got a knife to use?

A desperate person would use it if they are getting beat senseless. A poke in the eye could be enough to save yourself and walk away.

[Beebs]

I see alot of people claim they can defend against a knife when they dont even know how to use a knife. :patsch

Replace "knife" with "grappling" and "how to use" with "ever even seen"

Sounds even more absurd now, doesn't it?

[Chris85]

So you believe this guy is training his hair pulling and eye gouging on live opponents? As for the TKD class; he wasn't expecting it because he was practicing a sport, expecting it to go by the rules; a street fight does not induce that same sense or fair play.

Most grapplers do train against dirty tactics, it's why there are so many set ups you learn in the first few months that involve things like the arm triangle when they put their hands near your face, it's why it's constantly drilled to keep your eyes out of reach by looking away from the trapped arm in the arm triangle, to keep your head against theirs during the RNC.

99/100 times the guy with the better mix of skill, size, and conditioning is going to win; a grappler is going to have 2/3 of those pretty much every time.

Of course you dont actually eye gouge in paractice. Being aware and conditioned to use make alot of difference. TKD people learn how to punch but when facing a boxer they get geaten up and I guess you know why.

What make you think streetfighter dont know how to grapple?

The way this thing is going it sound like the best MMA fighter vs a bum.

I can take up boxing class, would that make me like manny pacquiao and able to beat world class fighter. Taking MMA class does not equal to beating up anyone on the street. This is where alot of MMA fan boys get it wrong. They train for a year or so and now think they can take on anyone on the street. According to someone they are able to take on 99%.

[Chris85]

Replace "knife" with "grappling" and "how to use" with "ever even seen"

Sounds even more absurd now, doesn't it?

I think you qoute me out of context there. Well of course it does, it wasnt me who suggested that you can defend against a grappling and not even know what they are.

What I said was, you cant defends against any trick if you dont even know what they are. Same as the TKD wasnt expecting a low blow, like you said they train for sports and wasnt expecting to be kicked in the nuts.

[Beebs]

I didn't mean it to attack you, but the other guy might finally grasp the reasoning.

Fundamental skills trained thousands of times against real, resisting opponents are the most reliable tools in a fight. You never rise to the occasion, you always fall to the level of your training.

[ufoalf]

I love ignore. All I see is pretty much beebs talking to himself. :lol:

It's great to see people still know jack shit about grappling. After 1 year of highschool wrestling I could handle 4-5 years older and bigger guys, easily. They were of the attitude "your wrestling aint shit" except they never even seen grappling before. Funny how EVERYONE goes for that headlock rendering their arm totally useless :lol:. The best part is that I've never been so calm in a fight because I know the other person has no clue what he's doing because he's spazzing out.

[UpperStr8]

I love ignore. All I see is pretty much beebs talking to himself. :lol:

It's great to see people still know jack shit about grappling. After 1 year of highschool wrestling I could handle 4-5 years older and bigger guys, easily. They were of the attitude "your wrestling aint shit" except they never even seen grappling before. Funny how EVERYONE goes for that headlock rendering their arm totally useless :lol:. The best part is that I've never been so calm in a fight because I know the other person has no clue what he's doing because he's spazzing out.
Dude... who's gonna be stupid enough to headlock you? you must be fighting lil'boys. Of course your gonna be able to grapple him now that he has allow himself to get close to you, please apply your grapple in this situation. Bottom line, grappling requires you to fight upclose which, at the same time you are openning yourself up to vulnabilities. It's always that exchange or that risk you are willing to take. For example, if I come up close for the grapple, I must also be aware that I may be eating a couple hits before I get there. And the real question now becomes are you willing to receive a couple blows just to grab onto his waist so that you can take him down and then apply your dominant position?? I much rather now.

Grapplling came to be as the result of MMA style gaming based off of MMA rules and regulations.

Are you really going to believe that your opponent is going to play by these rules??

It's people with this menatally that ends them up on the cement not seeing where it came from.

[Beebs]

You seem to think MMA has always existed as it does. Rules in MMA, the name "MMA" itself, are relatively new; for decades it was Vale Tudo, with all your super anti grappling tricks allowed; you could fondle all the testicles you want, once in a while it worked. 99% of the time the fighter with better skills won, because for the millionth time, fundamentals win fights, training wins fights, skill wins fights.

[Chris85]

Well this is exactly is the main difference between fighting in the ring and fighting for your life.

You can take a hit safely and hope you wont get knocked out and try to graple. I seen eskrima competition where they would take the hit just so they can come close. Remove the rules, remove body armour, remove the padded sticks and replace it with real weapon like a machette, guaranteed the fight would look very very different.

[UpperStr8]

You seem to think MMA has always existed as it does. Rules in MMA, the name "MMA" itself, are relatively new; for decades it was Vale Tudo, with all your super anti grappling tricks allowed; you could fondle all the testicles you want, once in a while it worked. 99% of the time the fighter with better skills won, because for the millionth time, fundamentals win fights, training wins fights, skill wins fights.
Your talking to yourself again.

your talking apples with oranges.

you must be in the wrong forum.

Go somewhere your wanted.

[codeman99998]

Your talking to yourself again.

your talking apples with oranges.

you must be in the wrong forum.

Go somewhere your wanted.

:lol:Says the moron with 26 posts to one of the most respected voices in the forum.

Alf you have the right idea! I didn't know ignore was an option but I'm following your lead. Can you tell me how to do it?

:edit: I figured it out.

[Chris85]

99% of the time the fighter with better skills won, because for the millionth time, fundamentals win fights, training wins fights, skill wins fights.

This is exactly what I was saying before. The reason why a fight is won is because that person was the better man over all and it had nothing to do with MMA where alot of fan boys are led to beleive. A good fighter doesnt have to be an MMA fighter. Any decent fighter is able to handle most bums in a streetfight. A boxer, a karate, a TKD, a kung fu or MMA should do well.

However I do find it kinda strange that most street fight seems to involve an MMA person. I see alot of them claiming how they beat this and that guy, how he took him down and... Is this because majority of them are kids who goes around looking for fights? I wonder if their claim really did happened. I seen alot of clueless people in this site regarding real fight on the street. I mean fight for survival, non of those friendly fight that pretty much every got into from time to time.

It seems that once you watch MMA and turn up a few class, you instantly become a fighting machine.

[UpperStr8]

:lol:Says the moron with 26 posts to one of the most respected voices in the forum.

Alf you have the right idea! I didn't know ignore was an option but I'm following your lead. Can you tell me how to do it?
wow... you have 1000 something posts your soo awesome but you have no balls just a weak ass follower. You might as well lick Alf's balls while your at it.

Did you want a piece of me also?

[Beebs]

Your talking to yourself again.

your talking apples with oranges.

you must be in the wrong forum.

Go somewhere your wanted.

I was talking with an adult, it's called a conversation, you wouldn't understand.

Go back to pretending you aren't really Pinoy, and just so happen to only like Pac and Vera on merit. Actually, just continue being you, every body needs somebody to make themselves feel smart; you handle that job for every single human being alive.

[Chris85]

LOL this thread have deteriorated.

Beeps you managed to keep your cool, but definately the majority of the poster in this thread are highly strung about the subject. I find it quite amusing actually :lol:

[ufoalf]

:lol:Says the moron with 26 posts to one of the most respected voices in the forum.

Alf you have the right idea! I didn't know ignore was an option but I'm following your lead. Can you tell me how to do it?

:edit: I figured it out.

Oh yea, im glad you did. I was about to leave the forum all together because I was tired of reading stupid shit until I saw someone mentioning ignore in the Lounge. I don't mute people that I don't like or disagree with, just the trolls that argue out of ignorance. Kinda converts the forum back to where it was a year ago.

[UpperStr8]

Oh yea, im glad you did. I was about to leave the forum all together because I was tired of reading stupid shit until I saw someone mentioning ignore in the Lounge. I don't mute people that I don't like or disagree with, just the trolls that argue out of ignorance. Kinda converts the forum back to where it was a year ago.
its because there are people like you guys running this joint thats way shiet dont change. The truth is that you guys cant handle it. You tend to produce the people you love to hate because of your normal tendencies and unconsciously aware self. You choose to see only what you wanna see and therefore is blinded with your eyes wide open. Much like ignorants such as yourself, who lives and dies MMA and have been socially brainwash to think that its this new awesome fighting style, when in fact there are many proven and long staqnding styles out there that have yet to be exploited. So, please feel free to explore and experiment with all that is out there and be open yet impartial before you become a social retard and tag along the band wagon of what's socially acepted in today's society. In other words, for you small timers, do a little meditating and ponder about the truths and essence of the shaolin monk before you limit yourself to the pinoy the only other kind you know. So who do you think is the bigger moron the moron himself of the one arguing with the moron?

[ufoalf]

its because there are people like you guys running this joint thats way shiet dont change. The truth is that you guys cant handle it. You tend to produce the people you love to hate because of your normal tendencies and unconsciously aware self. You choose to see only what you wanna see and therefore is blinded with your eyes wide open. Much like ignorants such as yourself, who lives and dies MMA and have been socially brainwash to think that its this new awesome fighting style, when in fact there are many proven and long staqnding styles out there that have yet to be exploited. So, please feel free to explore and experiment with all that is out there and be open yet impartial before you become a social retard and tag along the band wagon of what's socially acepted in today's society. In other words, for you small timers, do a little meditating and ponder about the truths and essence of the shaolin monk before you limit yourself to the pinoy the only other kind you know. So who do you think is the bigger moron the moron himself of the one arguing with the moron?

I actually already put you on ignore list but I knew you replied to me so I'll indulge myself to reply to you.

First of all, I'm certain I've read about Buddhism and similar philosophies much more than you have. Just so you know, before you say more stupid shit, it's not the truths and essence of shaolin monks that you should be pondering and meditating about. You should actually read about it before you start throwing around such grand ideas.

Second, if you want to talk about proven and long standing style than you will NOT find an older style than grappling/wrestling. It is THE most ancient and proven hand to hand combat that exists. In fact it's arguably THE oldest sport period. Also, on the subject of ancient sports, pankration is also up there beside wrestling as one of the oldest sports and combat sports that exists. To educate you a little, they allowed everything except eye gouging and biting, yet they still used similar fighting style to that of MMAists today. Thats thousands of years ago, mind you. They weren't competing for crakers either, very often it was life and death.

Third, you should repeat your own post with exception to MMA referral in front of the mirror.

Forth, you are astonishingly ignorant.

Fifth, yes, this IS the last time I read what you have to say.

Lastly, take a step back and take a look at yourself, you are most certainly in the shell of your own thought, I know it because I've been similar way a lot and I know what it looks like from the outside. But that's just a simple advice, I'm certain you have a lot to learn, same way, I'm certain or rather hopeful you're still very young. You'll know you're on a right path when you realize that what I say is true, except it might not happen or might happen many years from now.

[Chris85]

Its pretty common to see self proclaimed experts calling people a moron. :rofl :yep

[gungfu]

Its pretty common to see self proclaimed experts calling people a moron.

Has everybody realised that this guy is not only a moron, but a pathetic troll yet? Not only does he gets his ass regularly handed to him on the boxing forums, but he's getting his ass handed to him in the MMA forums as well now.

He gets owned any time he tries to argue his retarded points because his comprehension skills are that appalling. It's like the nurse whacked him round the head as he came out of his mom's cooch when he started crying like a bitch upon his first draw of breath. The guy is more than a little retarded, and I kinda feel sorry for him. Poor thing.

Anyway, I'll let you guys continue to highlight what a complete moron he is.

Cheers.

[Chris85]

Has everybody realised that this guy is not only a moron, but a pathetic troll yet? Not only does he gets his ass regularly handed to him on the boxing forums, but he's getting his ass handed to him in the MMA forums as well now.

He gets owned any time he tries to argue his retarded points because his comprehension skills are that appalling. It's like the nurse whacked him round the head as he came out of his mom's cooch when he started crying like a bitch upon his first draw of breath. The guy is more than a little retarded, and I kinda feel sorry for him. Poor thing.

Anyway, I'll let you guys continue to highlight what a complete moron he is.

Cheers.

Jeez Mr Bruce Less is at it again :lol: Self proclaimed eh? just like your idol bruce :hey

Regularly handed in the boxing forum? haha, I dont even piss around there except with you which we only talk about bruce. :patsch Typical fan boys making up stories that never happened.

Do I have to tell you that I was trolling before you realised it. You aint a very bright species at all :hi:

Oh the old saying "truth hurts" :yep

[TKDfighterJoe]

they see me trollin'

they hatin'

[Wige247]

Holy shit! Are people really arguing that someone that trains to fight dirty is going to beat someone that trains MMA? Seriously?

[achillesthegreat]

Holy shit! Are people really arguing that someone that trains to fight dirty is going to beat someone that trains MMA? Seriously?

we are all thinking the same thing except the unfortunate few.

[UpperStr8]

I actually already put you on ignore list but I knew you replied to me so I'll indulge myself to reply to you.

First of all, I'm certain I've read about Buddhism and similar philosophies much more than you have. Just so you know, before you say more stupid shit, it's not the truths and essence of shaolin monks that you should be pondering and meditating about. You should actually read about it before you start throwing around such grand ideas.

Second, if you want to talk about proven and long standing style than you will NOT find an older style than grappling/wrestling. It is THE most ancient and proven hand to hand combat that exists. In fact it's arguably THE oldest sport period. Also, on the subject of ancient sports, pankration is also up there beside wrestling as one of the oldest sports and combat sports that exists. To educate you a little, they allowed everything except eye gouging and biting, yet they still used similar fighting style to that of MMAists today. Thats thousands of years ago, mind you. They weren't competing for crakers either, very often it was life and death.

Third, you should repeat your own post with exception to MMA referral in front of the mirror.

Forth, you are astonishingly ignorant.

Fifth, yes, this IS the last time I read what you have to say.

Lastly, take a step back and take a look at yourself, you are most certainly in the shell of your own thought, I know it because I've been similar way a lot and I know what it looks like from the outside. But that's just a simple advice, I'm certain you have a lot to learn, same way, I'm certain or rather hopeful you're still very young. You'll know you're on a right path when you realize that what I say is true, except it might not happen or might happen many years from now.
To catch a fool you will have to play a fool. Much like how I've caught you. For to defeat ignorance is ignorance itself. Only then will you begin to realize your own ignorance.

I see you are a wrestling fanatic. Nothing wrong about that, but if you knew as much about buddhism as you do wrestling you'll know that it is almost nothing like the shaolin. That is why you try hard but is still small time and see only what you want to see and that is wrestling, MMA, or what some may call WWF. Some day you will realize about the truth and start to believe in the shaolin and not limited youself to the pinoy or the buddha. For I need not say any more and allow you small time wrestlers to walk your own path and see for yourself only then will you come to your own truths and see why the shaolin is what it is.

[achillesthegreat]

To catch a fool you will have to play a fool. Much like how I've caught you. For to defeat ignorance is ignorance itself. Only then will you begin to realize your own ignorance.

I see you are a wrestling fanatic. Nothing wrong about that, but if you knew as much about buddhism as you do wrestling you'll know that it is almost nothing like the shaolin. That is why you try hard but is still small time and see only what you want to see and that is wrestling, MMA, or what some may call WWF. Some day you will realize about the truth and start to believe in the shaolin and not limited youself to the pinoy or the buddha. For I need not say any more and allow you small time wrestlers to walk your own path and see for yourself only then will you come to your own truths and see why the shaolin is what it is.

What exactly is your argument? I think I've lost track.

[cross_trainer]

I actually already put you on ignore list but I knew you replied to me so I'll indulge myself to reply to you.

First of all, I'm certain I've read about Buddhism and similar philosophies much more than you have. Just so you know, before you say more stupid shit, it's not the truths and essence of shaolin monks that you should be pondering and meditating about. You should actually read about it before you start throwing around such grand ideas.

Second, if you want to talk about proven and long standing style than you will NOT find an older style than grappling/wrestling. It is THE most ancient and proven hand to hand combat that exists. In fact it's arguably THE oldest sport period. Also, on the subject of ancient sports, pankration is also up there beside wrestling as one of the oldest sports and combat sports that exists. To educate you a little, they allowed everything except eye gouging and biting, yet they still used similar fighting style to that of MMAists today. Thats thousands of years ago, mind you. They weren't competing for crakers either, very often it was life and death.

Third, you should repeat your own post with exception to MMA referral in front of the mirror.

Forth, you are astonishingly ignorant.

Fifth, yes, this IS the last time I read what you have to say.

Lastly, take a step back and take a look at yourself, you are most certainly in the shell of your own thought, I know it because I've been similar way a lot and I know what it looks like from the outside. But that's just a simple advice, I'm certain you have a lot to learn, same way, I'm certain or rather hopeful you're still very young. You'll know you're on a right path when you realize that what I say is true, except it might not happen or might happen many years from now.

Wrestling is the oldest martial art to appear in any written records, dating back at least to 2300 BC in Egypt. Oh, and it's also the first martial art mentioned in Chinese records as well...

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[UpperStr8]

What exactly is your argument? I think I've lost track.
Exactly!

[UpperStr8]

Looks alot like the karma sutra position and those go way back.

Here's a little something you might enjoy...

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[ufoalf]

What exactly is your argument? I think I've lost track.

Please don't quote him again.
Dude is spazzing into a chewbacca defense now.

[UpperStr8]

Please don't quote him again.
Dude is spazzing into a chewbacca defense now.
As you can see this lil'bitch is a phonie. He has supposely told himself that he has me on ignore but still hating on my shiet.

[Wilhelm]

Please don't quote him again.
Dude is spazzing into a chewbacca defense now.
:lol:

[UpperStr8]

:lol:
yeah shut the fuck up. you have aint got shiet to say. COCKSUCKER.... hehehe

[Wilhelm]

yeah shut the fuck up. you have aint got shiet to say. COCKSUCKER.... hehehe

:lol::lol:

[UpperStr8]

:lol::lol:
I got me a fan.

[196osh]

I got me a fan.


:rofl:rofl:rofl



........




[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[UpperStr8]

Watch out for his crouching tiger hidden dragon.

How will you grapple that ass?

[196osh]

Watch out for his crouching tiger hidden dragon.

How will you grapple that ass?

I don't think anybody wants to "grapple that ass"....:blood

[UpperStr8]

I don't think anybody wants to "grapple that ass"....:blood
What about this one...

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Are ninjas real or are they fake???

[196osh]

1. Hell yes.

2. We may never know.

[UpperStr8]

1. Hell yes.

2. We may never know.
They are real... but we just dont know exactly what is real about them and what is made up . Disappearing and all that other crap is prob false, but there are things like magician, watch criss angel and then everything will start to clear up.

[Canibus81]

These videos in particular.

Royce vs Jason Delucia
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Royce vs some random kung fu guy twice, then Ralph vs Geraldo Silva Pedra a "Kung fu world vice champion" in an MMA fight.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

And a more modern one that shows what happens when you think eye gouging will save you.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Not in this video though

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I think it all depends the skill level of both opponents. It's the fighter that makes the style, not the style that makes the fighter.

[196osh]

:lol:

That was the dumbest video I have ever seen. The guy going for the TD would be out wrestled by a 120lb 11 year old.

[Canibus81]

:lol:

That was the dumbest video I have ever seen. The guy going for the TD would be out wrestled by a 120lb 11 year old.


I could same the same for the other video that beebs posted, that my grandmother could beat those wanna be kung fu masters that he posted. See it goes both ways.

[196osh]

I could same the same for the other video that beebs posted, that my grandmother could beat those wanna be kung fu masters that he posted. See it goes both ways.

Does that make the video you posted any less bullshit?

[Canibus81]

Does that make the video you posted any less bullshit?


The whole point is, instead of you guys discrediting certain styles, why don't focus on the fighter that is displaying the style. I've met a wing Chin sifu, who I witnessed myself break down some so called mma fighters. They were young arrogant ones. I've seen Tae Kwon Do fighter knockout a boxer.

[196osh]

In any discussuion such as this I always assume we are talking about fighters on a level. A world class level normally.

[UpperStr8]

In any discussuion such as this I always assume we are talking about fighters on a level. A world class level normally.
Like I've been saying... dont let the videos and pictures fool you. Even a well trained master can get knocked the fawk out. But if your comparing styles, then it depends on the situation if your gonna fight a MMA guy in his areana under his rules then chances are, the MMA guy will prob find his way to win because the other guy would be less experienced. But if you go to china and fight a shaolin monk in his temple your prob gonna end up 10 feet under ground and your family will have to file for a missing person report. Watch the show Fight Quest when they go into china and train/fight the shaolin monks and you'll know how world class these guys are. They like getting stab for fun, what will a MMA fighter do that hasnt already been done to them.

[196osh]

You watch too many movies. :good

[TKDfighterJoe]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I dont see anything in here unique to kung fu. It looks like typical MMA with a few more headkicks.

so why call it the world kung fu championships?

[Wige247]

Like I've been saying... dont let the videos and pictures fool you. Even a well trained master can get knocked the fawk out. But if your comparing styles, then it depends on the situation if your gonna fight a MMA guy in his areana under his rules then chances are, the MMA guy will prob find his way to win because the other guy would be less experienced. But if you go to china and fight a shaolin monk in his temple your prob gonna end up 10 feet under ground and your family will have to file for a missing person report. Watch the show Fight Quest when they go into china and train/fight the shaolin monks and you'll know how world class these guys are. They like getting stab for fun, what will a MMA fighter do that hasnt already been done to them.

Make them tap from a peruvian neck tie?

[TKDfighterJoe]

They like getting stab for fun, what will a MMA fighter do that hasnt already been done to them.:blood

vids or it didn't happen:nono


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I dont see anything in here unique to kung fu. It looks like typical MMA with a few more headkicks.

so why call it the world kung fu championships?

[ufoalf]

Not in this video though

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I think it all depends the skill level of both opponents. It's the fighter that makes the style, not the style that makes the fighter.

:lol:

[Beebs]

:blood

vids or it didn't happen:nono


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I dont see anything in here unique to kung fu. It looks like typical MMA with a few more headkicks.

so why call it the world kung fu championships?

It's basically San Shou / San Da without a ring.

There is a huge difference between San Shou and what has become "kung fu" in my mind; San Shou is a completly legitimate combat sport with tons of talented athletes competing in a blend of striking and throws. "Kung Fu" in the western world is basically a bunch of dorks in pajamas.

So if people are talking about serious San Shou fighters, much respect, if they are talking about dorks who watched to many movies and "get stabbed for fun" they are idiots.

[Wilhelm]

Not in this video though

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I think it all depends the skill level of both opponents. It's the fighter that makes the style, not the style that makes the fighter.

:lol:

That's HORRIBLE! If some guys "attacks" anyone with a hearbeat that way (basically falling to their knees and laying there while the person hits them) they'll get their ass kicked. Lets see that guy do it against someone other than a hippy in his pajamas. Jesus christ...:rofl

[Beebs]

:lol:

That's HORRIBLE! If some guys "attacks" anyone with a hearbeat that way (basically falling to their knees and laying there while the person hits them) they'll get their ass kicked. Lets see that guy do it against someone other than a hippy in his pajamas. Jesus christ...:rofl

Bad fake shot, bad sprawl, imaginary elbows.

Well, I'm sold.


Hell, even with that shot he could have completed the takedown, the guy can't even sprawl out of a fake takedown.

[UpperStr8]

:blood

vids or it didn't happen:nono


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I dont see anything in here unique to kung fu. It looks like typical MMA with a few more headkicks.

so why call it the world kung fu championships?
thanks for the vid... now I know that you know, but watch this....

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The guy in here is an exMMA, exNFL athlete and the other little dude is some sort of special marines army guy who has been trained in hand to hand combat by a style very similar to MMA. This show is on the Discovery CHannel so we know they play legit shiet. There are parts that they cut out for obvous reasons because who wants to show themself get owned by some FOB on Natonal TV (Not me! duh). Just watch and you can figure for yourself if this is real or not.

Oh yea... almost forgot, the stabbing part comes in at about 3:00. Watch and you tell me if thats legit?

[UpperStr8]

thanks for the vid... now I know that you know, but watch this....

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The guy in here is an exMMA, exNFL athlete and the other little dude is some sort of special marines army guy who has been trained in hand to hand combat by a style very similar to MMA. This show is on the Discovery CHannel so we know they play legit shiet. There are parts that they cut out for obvous reasons because who wants to show themself get owned by some FOB on Natonal TV (Not me! duh). Just watch and you can figure for yourself if this is real or not.

Oh yea... almost forgot, the stabbing part comes in at about 3:00. Watch and you tell me if thats legit?
Here is part two...

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

This some good shiet.... watch and learn my grasshoppers

[TKDfighterJoe]

balancing on three dull spears is a magic trick, not some skill he developed that makes him immune to pain and knife-stabs.

and the punching looks like boxing, the kicking looks like kickboxing

what of this is uniquely kung fu?

it looks like general mma
----------------------------------

[UpperStr8]

balancing on three dull spears is a magic trick, not some skill he developed that makes him immune to pain and knife-stabs.

and the punching looks like boxing, the kicking looks like kickboxing

what of this is uniquely kung fu?

it looks like general mma
----------------------------------
Who mentioned anything about kung fu?

your arguing over nothing at all but off of mere hatred and ignorance.

Check yourself before you reck yourself youngsta.

From the sound of it, your just a die hard MMA fan who knows nothing else but how to grapple. What else do you know youngsta beside how to apply the dominant position?

[ufoalf]

balancing on three dull spears is a magic trick, not some skill he developed that makes him immune to pain and knife-stabs.

and the punching looks like boxing, the kicking looks like kickboxing

what of this is uniquely kung fu?

it looks like general mma
----------------------------------

Don't you see, when a guy get's so good at his respective karate(kung fu w.e) it starts to look like boxing, kickboxing or w/e actually works. :lol:

[TKDfighterJoe]

Who mentioned anything about kung fu?

your arguing over nothing at all but off of mere hatred and ignorance.

Check yourself before you reck yourself youngsta.does anyone here see a major difference between the sparring at the 'kung fu world chamionships' and the fight quest videos you just showed me? The rules and protection look identical.

Well I don't hate anything about any of this. Its all an intensive physical activity and some of these people have decent kicking skill.

im saying none of its sparring looks unique when compared to other martial arts.

From the sound of it, your just a die hard MMA fan who knows nothing else but how to grapple. What else do you know youngsta beside how to apply the dominant position?Ive heard you say this to almost everyone you arguing with to try to get under their skin

do you really think that is true about me?

is your spidey sense tingling yet?

any clues sherlock?

[TKDfighterJoe]

Don't you see, when a guy get's so good at his respective karate(kung fu w.e) it starts to look like boxing, kickboxing or w/e actually works. :lol:I see a lot of this, Im just surprised that it looks like their sparring was a recent invention. I mean, I dont see anything looking unique kung fu. You would think their would be some kind of technique or strategy that was specific to the martial art that they used that doesnt look like something out of every kickboxing class ever.

[UpperStr8]

I see a lot of this, Im just surprised that it looks like their sparring was a recent invention. I mean, I dont see anything looking unique kung fu. You would think their would be some kind of technique or strategy that was specific to the martial art that they used that doesnt look like something out of every kickboxing class ever.
Does it matter who you are?

You make it seem like its important who you are?

From what it sounds like your pretty blinded and see things either black or white, thats why everythng starts to look like boxing or kicking boxing to you. Just check how you sound, youve got no clue about what else is out there but to classify ieverything as kickboxing or boxing. If you dont undersntand the difference and thnk that kung fu is karate then the conversation ends here, your thinking is only surface like your style there's not enough dept to bounce ideas with, its a big waste aof everythng like the way you live and your style only takes you as far as your thinking. No more free lessons.

[Beebs]

I see a lot of this, Im just surprised that it looks like their sparring was a recent invention. I mean, I dont see anything looking unique kung fu. You would think their would be some kind of technique or strategy that was specific to the martial art that they used that doesnt look like something out of every kickboxing class ever.

San Shou (actual competitive kung fu) is a fairly recent invention in the line of chinese martial arts as a whole, but I would say it is definitely a unique sport in that the vast majority of its competitors train specifically for it and the techniques have been independently developed.

The reason it doesn't look like the clowns in monk suits jumping around is because it is a competitive sport against a resisting opponent involving full contact striking and throws.

There are only so many ways to actually strike or takedown a real opponent, that is why although many techniques in seperate sports look so similar. Much of Judo looks like much of wrestling, much of Muay Thai looks like Savate, etc.

In modern times a lot of this has to do with sharing of information, of course, but even before that there were moves that were developed indendent of each other but look quite similar. So what you are left with are more stylistic differences and favoring of certain techniques over others, based both on what the rule set is more condusive to and simple preference.

So basically when you put two humans going 100%, you are going to see a lot of similarity if the rules, goals, and scoring are similar.

In the last few decades you have seen different sports taking bits and pieces from other sports more and more; Eastern European Judoka brought a huge wrestling influence to the world Judo scene, Western boxers brought more uppercuts and combinations to Muay Thai, etc.

Basically the reason competitive San Shou / San Da looks so similar to other sports is because of two reasons: there being a limited number of ways to succesfully strike and grapple, and recent influence of techniques from other sports like Greco Roman wrestling and Muay Thai.

The reason why it looks so different than the pointless dancing done by the robe and sandal crowd is because those clowns aren't fighters, they are glorified dancers and stuntmen.

So on the one hand I have huge respect for kung fu in the form of San Shou / San Da fighters, but see the "Shaolin temple, orange robe, outdated weapons, etc" crowd as one step away from gymnastics....except gymnasts are actual athletes. Sadly since the vast majority of the world doesn't have the slightest clue about fighting, they see the pretty dancing and assume it is actually the "real fighting" compared to the comparetively less exotic fighters as boring or not "deadly!" :roll:

There is a thread somewhere around with some good Chinese San Shou Vids.

[UpperStr8]

San Shou (actual competitive kung fu) is a fairly recent invention in the line of chinese martial arts as a whole, but I would say it is definitely a unique sport in that the vast majority of its competitors train specifically for it and the techniques have been independently developed.

The reason it doesn't look like the clowns in monk suits jumping around is because it is a competitive sport against a resisting opponent involving full contact striking and throws.

There are only so many ways to actually strike or takedown a real opponent, that is why although many techniques in seperate sports look so similar. Much of Judo looks like much of wrestling, much of Muay Thai looks like Savate, etc.

In modern times a lot of this has to do with sharing of information, of course, but even before that there were moves that were developed indendent of each other but look quite similar. So what you are left with are more stylistic differences and favoring of certain techniques over others, based both on what the rule set is more condusive to and simple preference.

So basically when you put two humans going 100%, you are going to see a lot of similarity if the rules, goals, and scoring are similar.

In the last few decades you have seen different sports taking bits and pieces from other sports more and more; Eastern European Judoka brought a huge wrestling influence to the world Judo scene, Western boxers brought more uppercuts and combinations to Muay Thai, etc.

Basically the reason competitive San Shou / San Da looks so similar to other sports is because of two reasons: there being a limited number of ways to succesfully strike and grapple, and recent influence of techniques from other sports like Greco Roman wrestling and Muay Thai.

The reason why it looks so different than the pointless dancing done by the robe and sandal crowd is because those clowns aren't fighters, they are glorified dancers and stuntmen.

So on the one hand I have huge respect for kung fu in the form of San Shou / San Da fighters, but see the "Shaolin temple, orange robe, outdated weapons, etc" crowd as one step away from gymnastics....except gymnasts are actual athletes. Sadly since the vast majority of the world doesn't have the slightest clue about fighting, they see the pretty dancing and assume it is actually the "real fighting" compared to the comparetively less exotic fighters as boring or not "deadly!" :roll:

There is a thread somewhere around with some good Chinese San Shou Vids.
I can second that.

You can spot san shou / san da fighters when you see them if you cant then your still small time or just a MMA fanatic and you can quote me on that.

[Beebs]

This is a mix of threads from several forums that I've pieced together that might be helpful.



This is a mix of several posts responding to a thread about a guys friend claiming that Wing Chun, basically the idiots who believe movie kung fu stuff works better than actual fighting and that ball grabbing and eye gouging are sufficient for ground fighting, is better than boxing or MMA in terms of real fighting so It may have some context that seems out of place.

Basically even though the terms are in some ways interchangeable, when I say wing-chung or kung fu I am talking about the delusional morons who tend to have Bruce Lee posters, when I say SanShou or SanDa I am talking about the most popular combat sport in china (maybe even national sport) that involves basically Muay Thai kickboxing without the elbows, but allows wrestling style throws but no ground grappling. When the match is classified as SanDa, rather than Sanshou, it allows knees

Sanshou - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Highlight of one guy to get the sport introduced (This is actually an event called "king of Sanda where they are profesionals, fight in a ring, and don't wear headgear)
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

80kg World Championship Match (This is amateur, which is more regular, and fought on a mat with headgear)
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San-Shou / San-Da is a part of/related to Wu-Shu; so if by Wu-Shu he means San-Da/Shou, a highly competitive sport similar to Thai-Boxing with takedowns he isn't quite an idiot. Of course he doesn't, and he is though.

China, in particular, has some absolutely fantastic San-Da fighters who are better, significantly better, than Cung Le in that sport. Given they have a billion people and it's their national martial art, and that The Art of War is a fantastic Chinese MMA promotion, their is a huge potential for Chinese San da fighters who develop a ground game (or prime Liddell takedown defense/ability to get back up) to make an enormous impact.

Of course it is yet another example of communism ruining the world since they don't have the freedom needed to learn and leave the country.

Now for some Art of War, the Chinese MMA organization. It is basically fought the best rules in modern MMA, a mix of the old pride rules; kicks to the head on the ground allowed plus the Unified US rules, elbows allowed.
Art of War Fighting Championship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now for some Art of War videos; like I said some serious Thai style striking combined with good high amplitude throw style wrestling.

So much potential in Chinese MMA.

Several Shows
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Art of War 9 highlights Serious potential in Chinese MMA.
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Art of War 12 highlights (poor quality)
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[TKDfighterJoe]

Yes, decent chinese mma. I saw those videos from the earlier thread somewhere I think.

Does it matter who you are?No, not particularly. On this forum we are allowed to discuss things which are not completely relevant if we want to. And when you brought it up I was surprised by the inaccuracy of your guess.

you brought it up here

From the sound of it, your just a die hard MMA fan who knows nothing else but how to grapple. What else do you know youngsta beside how to apply the dominant position?
Im not sure, maybe you are not paying attention to what you are typing, but Ill give you a hint. Read my name.

From what it sounds like your pretty blinded and see things either black or white, thats why everythng starts to look like boxing or kicking boxing to you. Just check how you sound, youve got no clue about what else is out there but to classify ieverything as kickboxing or boxing. If you dont undersntand the difference and thnk that kung fu is karate then the conversation ends here, your thinking is only surface like your style there's not enough dept to bounce ideas with, its a big waste aof everythng like the way you live and your style only takes you as far as your thinking. No more free lessons.Im well aware of differences in kung fu and karate for example, however I'm not talking about the martial art as a whole (Forms, Breaking, weapons, history, meditative techniques, etc..) I'm talking about their sparring. Its a simple question and I can ask it again for you assuming this time you are reading your post. What Techniques/stances/strategies (or even variations of techniques) that are uniquely wing chun are used in their sparring?

Because I expected to see people fighting from mantis pose or blocking with fluid circular arm motions

I can second that.

You can spot san shou / san da fighters when you see them if you cant then your still small time or just a MMA fanatic and you can quote me on that.Why would you 'second that' when he just said the orange-robed monks training at the shaolin temple are bullshit glorified gymnists, and in the last few posts you have been praising them in their ability to take a stab/they are the real deal?

[UpperStr8]

Yes, decent chinese mma. I saw those videos from the earlier thread somewhere I think.

No, not particularly. On this forum we are allowed to discuss things which are not completely relevant if we want to. And when you brought it up I was surprised by the inaccuracy of your guess.

you brought it up here


Im not sure, maybe you are not paying attention to what you are typing, but Ill give you a hint. Read my name.

Im well aware of differences in kung fu and karate for example, however I'm not talking about the martial art as a whole (Forms, Breaking, weapons, history, meditative techniques, etc..) I'm talking about their sparring. Its a simple question and I can ask it again for you assuming this time you are reading your post. What Techniques/stances/strategies (or even variations of techniques) that are uniquely wing chun are used in their sparring?

Because I expected to see people fighting from mantis pose or blocking with fluid circular arm motions

Why would you 'second that' when he just said the orange-robed monks training at the shaolin temple are bullshit glorified gymnists, and in the last few posts you have been praising them in their ability to take a stab/they are the real deal?
You've got your shiet all twisted. Its like arguing with a retard. I never mentioned anything about "the orange-robed monks training at the shaolin temple are bullshit glorified gymnists" those arent my choice of words. But you can choose to believe whatever you want one day you'll get knocked the fuck out and you'll remeber me. It was an upper cut then a striaght overhead.

So, lets not get it confuse, dont let the orange robes fool you, its only there to mesmerize you and lead you to not expect the unexpected and send you on a one way trip to the canvass.

One day sooner of later its coming for you, because if your not asking for it then your asking for it. End of story and a done deal.

[TKDfighterJoe]

You've got your shiet all twisted. Its like arguing with a retard. I never mentioned anything about "the orange-robed monks training at the shaolin temple are bullshit glorified gymnists" those arent my choice of words. But you can choose to believe whatever you want one day you'll get knocked the fuck out and you'll remeber me. It was an upper cut then a striaght overhead.

So, lets not get it confuse, dont let the orange robes fool you, its only there to mesmerize you and lead you to not expect the unexpected and send you on a one way trip to the canvass.

One day sooner of later its coming for you, because if your not asking for it then your asking for it. End of story and a done deal.the last three posts you have said something along the lines of 'its all over'

your internet tough guy stuff is so original, where did you get the idea from?

also the video you posted about people being stabbed for fun and stuff, was about a bunch of monks in a temple wearing orange robes.

[ufoalf]

the last three posts you have said something along the lines of 'its all over'

your internet tough guy stuff is so original, where did you get the idea from?

also the video you posted about people being stabbed for fun and stuff, was about a bunch of monks in a temple wearing orange robes.

Why are you even debating with that guy? He's such an easy target. :lol:


Follow my lead, "Ignore List" is the way to go.

[TKDfighterJoe]

Why are you even debating with that guy? He's such an easy target. :lol:


Follow my lead, "Ignore List" is the way to go.Ive been talking to him on and off. Sometimes there isnt much going on in the lounge and you get tired of reading pac vs floyd roid threads :tired Ill give up in a bit

[PIRA]

Let me tell you why grappling doesnt work in a real fight:

1) if your trying to arm bar me your gonna get your eyes poked out
2) if you come any where near my legs your gonna hurt yourself.
3) If you like wrestling your gonna get dropped and pommel horse to the dome.
4) If you wanna win by submittion then good luck searching
5) Bottom line, if your a big slow stiff ball then your not gonna see it coming. G'nite

In court those spouting this type of crap are referred to as the "victim" never the defendant. :rofl

[UpperStr8]

the last three posts you have said something along the lines of 'its all over'

your internet tough guy stuff is so original, where did you get the idea from?

also the video you posted about people being stabbed for fun and stuff, was about a bunch of monks in a temple wearing orange robes.
your a nobody and your cell mate buddy Ufoalf can go figure out how he can gapple himself to sleep. Go ahead and give him a few lessons while your at it. Have some fun man. You work to hard. Maybe you can learn something from Pira's quote of mine. Cuz I'll eat your lil bitch ass up small timer. Keep on training and practicing your gappling your gonna need it youngsta.

[UpperStr8]

In court those spouting this type of crap are referred to as the "victim" never the defendant. :rofl
I didnt know I had a fan. But f your wondering, Im not the role model type so if your looking for the perfect post you can get off my nuts and look elsewhere like on perez Hilton, he likes the grappling part like you freaks.

[TKDfighterJoe]

your a nobody and your cell mate buddy Ufoalf can go figure out how he can gapple himself to sleep. Go ahead and give him a few lessons while your at it. Have some fun man. You work to hard. Maybe you can learn something from Pira's quote of mine. Cuz I'll eat your lil bitch ass up small timer. Keep on training and practicing your gappling your gonna need it youngsta.Im trying to decide if the fact that wing chun is impossible to properly defend led you to resort to acting like a child.

or if it is your short attention span, lack of attention to detail, and horrible conversational skills.

I feel its a bit of both, but more the latter.

The best part is you flaming me because you think I just do a bunch of grappling.

[UpperStr8]

Im trying to decide if the fact that wing chun is impossible to properly defend led you to resort to acting like a child.

or if it is your short attention span, lack of attention to detail, and horrible conversational skills.

I feel its a bit of both, but more the latter.

The best part is you flaming me because you think I just do a bunch of grappling.
hehehe

your stupid as fawk.

dumb shiet shut da fawk up

[Ninjafox]

how about Wing Chun's speed?

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