How good would Gerald McClellan be

[TIGEREDGE]

if he wasnt a crazed psycho nut in the ring. this guy had real good boxing ability when he used. he just rarely used it. gman always had to throw caution to the wind

i reckon he could of been a bigger and better version of tommy hearns

[bigG]

big power, great chin, nutjob.....nasty personality???...i aint opening that can of worms.....benn/mclelland is the greatest fight i watched as live...brutal, tragic, exciting...it had it all..if it had been a movie it would have been laughed out at the script stage.....chinny brit with big punch takes p4p punchers best, is knoced out of ring and comes back to ko and ultimately hospitalize his pantomime villain opponent.....

[cotto20]

if he wasnt a crazed psycho nut in the ring. this guy had real good boxing ability when he used. he just rarely used it. gman always had to throw caution to the wind

i reckon he could of been a bigger and better version of tommy hearns
He had it all speed, power, chin, strength, great body puncher and was fearless! he just didnt cut weight right he would dry out week of the fight and take alot of weight off which is very! dangerous, against benn he had taken to much weight off he came in 3 pound under the supermiddleweight limit, one of the reasons manny steward left him was cause of his weight cutting habits. If not for that he would of been a all time great! He was the last person to beat roy jones as a amature, and always wanted to fight roy as a pro, there was also talk of matches against eubank, toney, hopkins, nunn, collins and mccallum around that time, we probaly didnt even get to see g man hit his prime. I think he could of went all the way to heavyweight with his strength, power and chin

[Flea Man]

Nah, he was outmanouverable. It's like saying 'what if Julian Jackson had an ATG chin'.

[Tin_Ribs]

He had big power, a strong chin and good speed. Apart from that, he was alright. The most overrated fighter of the 90's if you ask me. Two wins over a shot-to-shite Jackson and a (tragic) TKO loss to Benn aren't enough to pave the way to Canastota. And he was never likely to be anything like Tommy Hearns. Generally on account of the fact that Hearns was a master boxer and McClellan wasn't. Still, he was good to watch I suppose.

The pro-McClellan crowd are going to tear into me now aren't they?

[Flea Man]

He had big power, a strong chin and good speed. Apart from that, he was alright. The most overrated fighter of the 90's if you ask me. Two wins over a shot-to-shite Jackson and a (tragic) TKO loss to Benn aren't enough to pave the way to Canastota. And he was never likely to be anything like Tommy Hearns. Generally on account of the fact that Hearns was a master boxer and McClellan wasn't. Still, he was good to watch I suppose.

The pro-McClellan crowd are going to tear into me now aren't they?

Fuck 'em, they have to wake up someday:deal:good

[thejokerswild]

I think he was a psychopath honestly.

As a fighter, the guy could of been really great from my impression of his fights. There's a lot of whats ifs surrounding this brutal fighter.

[Tin_Ribs]

Fuck 'em, they have to wake up someday:deal:good

:D

To be fair to him, the attributes he DID have, he had to a considerable degree. They were just physical ones is all, the massive punch and concrete chin. It was always going to be downhill for him leaving the Steward camp and constantly cutting so much weight. And the Benn fight demonstrated that he was, for all that KO power, a mediocre finisher.

[teeto]

He was a bad prick.

[lefthook31]

He had explosive power, and took it to his opponents, but like someone said, maybe his boxing skills were a bit overated.
He tended like all punchers to fall back on his punching power a little too much. Regardless of how good he could have been, he was one of the more exciting fighters of the 90's.
Anyone who threw as many power punches straight like he did in the Benn fight would have certainly gassed themselves out as well and I think he was thinking the fight was going to be over. That fight could have very well been stopped and things might have been different. He seemed to be getting better around the Jackson fights so who knows how good he could have been. There was certainly a large list of very good fighters, including Roy Jones and James Toney, who he could have most likely banged out a nice legacy against.

[Tin_Ribs]

He was a bad prick.

That he was. A nasty fucker if the stories are anything to go by.

[Sweet Pea]

You're asking how good he would be if he were an entirely different fighter. This thread sucks.

[Flea Man]

You're asking how good he would be if he were an entirely different fighter. This thread sucks.

Exactly.

[lefthook31]

You're asking how good he would be if he were an entirely different fighter. This thread sucks.
No I think hes asking how good he would have been if he didnt rely on his power so much? The guy did have ability, and possibly like many raw punchers could have accomplished more had he tried to be calculated and strategic going about settin them up. Certainly the Benn fight could have been different, dont you think?

[Sweet Pea]

No I think hes asking how good he would have been if he didnt rely on his power so much? The guy did have ability, and possibly like many raw punchers could have accomplished more had he tried to be calculated and strategic going about settin them up. Certainly the Benn fight could have been different, dont you think?But we don't know that and have no way of knowing it, so the question is more or less rhetorical. Had he kept with Steward and kept his head, he may well have ended up in a better spot and been a much more formidable fighter in the long run, but there's no telling how good he may have been, we just didn't see enough of his boxing ability to really judge. What we did see in his supposed prime years was no methodical boxer-puncher, but rather a very flawed power puncher.

[Minotauro]

He didn't have the talent or skill set of Hearns. Sure he had huge power but Hearns was a lot more then just a huge puncher he had one of the best jabs you'll see plus he was accurate, great timing and he could box on the back foot well. Gerald would have done well but still would have been off Hearns level.

[lefthook31]

But we don't know that and have no way of knowing it, so the question is more or less rhetorical. Had he kept with Steward and kept his head, he may well have ended up in a better spot and been a much more formidable fighter in the long run, but there's no telling how good he may have been, we just didn't see enough of his boxing ability to really judge. What we did see in his supposed prime years was no methodical boxer-puncher, but rather a very flawed power puncher.
I think we saw enough his ability, and certainly his fighting heart. Im not so sure he was "very" flawed either.

[Tin_Ribs]

I think we saw enough his ability, and certainly his fighting heart. Im not so sure he was "very" flawed either.

He was flawed; that much should be apparent. Benn hit him at will and won most of the rounds that he didn't get knocked down in. The type of boxer-puncher that some people label him as would never have taken that much unnecessary leather. And a better finisher would have taken Benn out in much clearer and decisive fashion.

[Sweet Pea]

I think we saw enough his ability, and certainly his fighting heart. Im not so sure he was "very" flawed either.We saw enough of his ability, yes. The abilities didn't show much potential as far as his boxing intuitiveness went, though. Post-Steward he deteriorated into a blood-thirsty power puncher, who was indeed very flawed. With Steward he at least had the makings of a quality boxer-puncher, but who knows how far that would've went? He just didn't have the intelligence to put it all together.

[Mantequilla]

I don't think Gerald was that much better than a flawed massive puncher like Don Lee, who nobody ever goes on about.His durability put him a notch or two above guys like that but not too much.

[lefthook31]

He was flawed; that much should be apparent. Benn hit him at will and won most of the rounds that he didn't get knocked down in. The type of boxer-puncher that some people label him as would never have taken that much unnecessary leather. And a better finisher would have taken Benn out in much clearer and decisive fashion.

What about the leather he threw!? He was gassed out after throwing that many power shots. A better finisher? He was one of the best finishers, youve got to be kidding? It was more Nigels Benn's incredible will to continue more than anything, and most fighters wouldnt have made it through that barrage, or had the type of time to continue that Benn had.

[Sweet Pea]

What about the leather he threw!? He was gassed out after throwing that many power shots. A better finisher? He was one of the best finishers, youve got to be kidding? It was more Nigels Benn's incredible will to continue more than anything, and most fighters wouldnt have made it through that barrage, or had the type of time to continue that Benn had.He was a good finisher because of his power, against lesser opponents who simply were unable to deal with it. Against stronger willed and stronger skilled fighters I doubt simply winging out power bombs would finish the deed, as Benn proved. The man was very flawed technically. He backed away completely wide open time and again against Benn, only to be tagged at damn near every opportunity. Benn's hands may as well have been surgically plastered to his face. His defense was very poor, that much is obvious for anyone who actually analyzes his fights. He overextended his missed punches (particularly that right hand) so much that it further exacerbated this flaw by putting him in a perfect position to be countered. He was a bomber post-Steward, albeit a very tough one. He was no boxer.

[Tin_Ribs]

He was a good finisher because of his power, against lesser opponents who simply were unable to deal with it. Against stronger willed and stronger skilled fighters I doubt simply winging out power bombs would finish the deed, as Benn proved. The man was very flawed technically. He backed away completely wide open time and again against Benn, only to be tagged at damn near every opportunity. Benn's hands may as well have been surgically plastered to his face. His defense was very poor, that much is obvious for anyone who actually analyzes his fights. He overextended his missed punches (particularly that right hand) so much that it further exacerbated this flaw by putting him in a perfect position to be countered. He was a bomber post-Steward, albeit a very tough one. He was no boxer.

What he said.

[lefthook31]

He was a good finisher because of his power, against lesser opponents who simply were unable to deal with it. Against stronger willed and stronger skilled fighters I doubt simply winging out power bombs would finish the deed, as Benn proved. The man was very flawed technically. He backed away completely wide open time and again against Benn, only to be tagged at damn near every opportunity. Benn's hands may as well have been surgically plastered to his face. His defense was very poor, that much is obvious for anyone who actually analyzes his fights. He overextended his missed punches (particularly that right hand) so much that it further exacerbated this flaw by putting him in a perfect position to be countered. He was a bomber post-Steward, albeit a very tough one. He was no boxer.
Wow, did you watch the first Jackson fight? Your using the Benn fight as a baromoter? The mans brain was frying before our eyes. Kind of hard to use that as an example. He had two unmotivated back to back losses, but other than that, he was moving up the ladder quite well as champion. The Benn fight was one of the strangest fights Ive ever seen, and I dont think you can come to any conclusions based off of that fight, where he started blinking repeatedly and something was clearly wrong shortly after he completely shot his load in the opening round. Like I said, the ref could have easily stepped in and stopped it after Benn went flying through the ropes, and then things could have been different.

[sugarsean]

I believe he could of been one of the greats he reminded me of a young Tommy Hearns not as great of course but they had similarties.

[Tin_Ribs]

The Benn fight is the only fight we CAN use as a barometer, if anything. Jackson was always susceptible to fellow punchers even in his prime, which was years gone by by the time McClellan came along; he was also up on two scorecards in the first fight if I remember rightly. Other than the shadow of John Mugabi, who had already been bombed out by Norris, and Sanderline Williams, his record is empty.

And his brain was frying owing to the fact that he was practically a cruiserweight who had no business fighting at the weight he was at. It would have done nothing to prove anything if the fight had been stopped when Benn went through the ropes, other than that McClellan had a big punch. Which everybody knows and acknowledges. It's his technical skills, level of opposition and short shelf-life that come under question, and rightfully so.

And wasn't Benn allowed the correct amount of time to re-enter the ring when such an incident occurs. Something like 20 seconds?

[frankenfrank]

if he wasnt a crazed psycho nut in the ring. this guy had real good boxing ability when he used. he just rarely used it. gman always had to throw caution to the wind

i reckon he could of been a bigger and better version of tommy hearns
bigger no.
better to some extent yes.
better than hopkins for sure.
and a fight with roy he deserved.

[Flea Man]

bigger no.
better to some extent yes.
better than hopkins for sure.
and a fight with roy he deserved.

better than Hopkins:lol::lol::lol:

[Sweet Pea]

Wow, did you watch the first Jackson fight?Yes, and nothing he did in that fight goes against what I said. He bombed Jackson out in the mid rounds. Jackson actually did quite well during the rounds leading up to the KO as well, mainly because of McClellan's lack of defense and plan B. His superior size, strength, and durability are what won him out against a faded Jackson.

[Tin_Ribs]

Jones, Hopkins and Toney would have fucking schooled him. I also think Eubank would've had enough to take him, as would Watson, provided McClellan didn't land a hail mary. I'd even take the old McCallum over him.

[lefthook31]

Yes, and nothing he did in that fight goes against what I said. He bombed Jackson out in the mid rounds. Jackson actually did quite well during the rounds leading up to the KO as well, mainly because of McClellan's lack of defense and plan B. His superior size, strength, and durability are what won him out against a faded Jackson.
Maybe take another look. Faded Jackson, nah, he was still pretty solid. Mclellan was just a puppy in this fight, and showed some decent ring generalship. Forgot Mclellan beat Jones Jr in the Golden gloves as well.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[lefthook31]

Jones, Hopkins and Toney would have fucking schooled him. I also think Eubank would've had enough to take him, as would Watson, provided McClellan didn't land a hail mary. I'd even take the old McCallum over him.
Keep in mind guys, Mclellan was only 25 26 at the time, he didnt have a lot of huge fights, but he was performing quite well in the ones he did. Beating a guy like Jackson and almost wiping the floor with Benn, was a pretty good start into the top echelon of the division. Its just as ridiculous to say he wouldnt have gone anywhere if he kept fighting, as it is to say he would have been successful had he not gotten disabled by Benn.

[Flea Man]

Amateur means nothing when it comes to judging a pro fighter, otherwise Larry Holmes and David Tua would be regarded as chinny.

[lefthook31]

Amateur means nothing when it comes to judging a pro fighter, otherwise Larry Holmes and David Tua would be regarded as chinny.
Yes but he beat Roy Jones. In any universe and under any circumstances that pretty impressive. Has nothing to do with chins

[Flea Man]

In general, the few slips and jabs GMAn implemented to stay at midrange really aren't that much of an indication to his supposed untapped talent for anything other than slugging.

[Tin_Ribs]

Keep in mind guys, Mclellan was only 25 26 at the time, he didnt have a lot of huge fights, but he was performing quite well in the ones he did. Beating a guy like Jackson and almost wiping the floor with Benn, was a pretty good start into the top echelon of the division. Its just as ridiculous to say he wouldnt have gone anywhere if he kept fighting, as it is to say he would have been successful had he not gotten disabled by Benn.

Well, I suppose we'll never really know will we? But I do think it's more logical to assume that he would have gone downhill. Whatever skills he did have underwent a gradual regression from the time he left Steward, leaving him as one-dimensional bomber around the time of the Benn fight. Had he emerged unscathed, I suspect that the loss would have permanently taken something from him anyway; beatings like that usually do. As people have already said, that kind of weight cutting was going to spell trouble sooner or later.

I suppose he could have jumped up in weight and picked up a better trainer to sharpen up his skills. But moving up in weight or fighting beyond Benn would have meant him coming across the likes of Jones, Hill, Michalszewksi, Calzaghe or Griffin, none of whom he would have beaten IMO.

Either way, you're entitled to your opinion mate; agree to disagree and all that.

[Tin_Ribs]

Yes but he beat Roy Jones. In any universe and under any circumstances that pretty impressive. Has nothing to do with chins

Henry Tillman beat Tyson in the amateurs. We all know what happened in the pro's.

[Sweet Pea]

Maybe take another look. Faded Jackson, nah, he was still pretty solid. Mclellan was just a puppy in this fight, and showed some decent ring generalship. Forgot Mclellan beat Jones Jr in the Golden gloves as well.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Yes, a prime Jackson was a monster. A faded Jackson was, as you said, "pretty solid". He was also smaller and less durable than McClellan, which puts pretty much all the odds in favor of McClellan in a punch-out.

And if beating a teenage Roy Jones Jr. in the Golden Gloves is worthy of being mentioned among his biggest achievements, I'd say it's clear why many find him overrated.

There was nothing particularly impressive about the clip you posted, either. He was moving a bit (Jackson was never the best ring general himself, in fact it would've been one of his biggest weaknesses) and keeping the fight at his own pace, but his offensive output consisted of pawing out a jab followed by a lunging right hand, and then clinching.

[lefthook31]

Well, I suppose we'll never really know will we? But I do think it's more logical to assume that he would have gone downhill. Whatever skills he did have underwent a gradual regression from the time he left Steward, leaving him as one-dimensional bomber around the time of the Benn fight. Had he emerged unscathed, I suspect that the loss would have permanently taken something from him anyway; beatings like that usually do. As people have already said, that kind of weight cutting was going to spell trouble sooner or later.

I suppose he could have jumped up in weight and picked up a better trainer to sharpen up his skills. But moving up in weight or fighting beyond Benn would have meant him coming across the likes of Jones, Hill, Michalszewksi, Calzaghe or Griffin, none of whom he would have beaten IMO.

Either way, you're entitled to your opinion mate; agree to disagree and all that.
I agree with you about the effects of a beating like that, but what if the fight with Benn was stopped in the first round and it could have been? Its kind of hard to make that statement about him becoming a one dimensional banger, when he went on to have all first round knockouts after the Jackson fight. Gerald liked to start fast and test his opponents chin and it worked.
You really think Griffen could stand up to Mclellans power? I dont think Hill would have made it past four. I dont know how proven Michalzewski and Calzahge were at the time either, especially Calzahge. I think he would be a live dog in all those fights. Jones and Toney would have given him hell. He would have never faced Hopkins, because he stayed at middle.

[Tin_Ribs]

I agree with you about the effects of a beating like that, but what if the fight with Benn was stopped in the first round and it could have been? Its kind of hard to make that statement about him becoming a one dimensional banger, when he went on to have all first round knockouts after the Jackson fight. Gerald liked to start fast and test his opponents chin and it worked.
You really think Griffen could stand up to Mclellans power? I dont think Hill would have made it past four. I dont know how proven Michalzewski and Calzahge were at the time either, especially Calzahge. I think he would be a live dog in all those fights. Jones and Toney would have given him hell. He would have never faced Hopkins, because he stayed at middle.

Hill gets a bit of a bum rap for losing to Hearns and getting KO'd by one of the best body shots this side of Palomino-Stracey. He was a good fighter. And I'm talking about McClellan getting Calzaghe or DM around '98 or so. Griffin outboxed Jones for 8 rounds, was an effective stylist with a good defense and had a true master in his corner, who would've known exactly how to deal with McClellan. His toughness and power make him a live body though.

I still feel comfy calling him a one-dimensional banger. By the standards of some of his contemporaries, he was a caveman. And not just in the ring.

[PowerPuncher]

All this what if Morales/McClellan boxed instead of brawling is a bit romaticised. Neither had particularly good defenses and McClellan wasnt that good on the inside as Benn showed up, although Benn was a monster of an inside fighter

[PowerPuncher]

He was flawed; that much should be apparent. Benn hit him at will and won most of the rounds that he didn't get knocked down in. The type of boxer-puncher that some people label him as would never have taken that much unnecessary leather. And a better finisher would have taken Benn out in much clearer and decisive fashion.

No SMW in history was taking Benn out that night

[PowerPuncher]

Jones, Hopkins and Toney would have fucking schooled him. I also think Eubank would've had enough to take him, as would Watson, provided McClellan didn't land a hail mary. I'd even take the old McCallum over him.

Those men may have outboxed him, but not easily, for 1 hes faster than Toney/Hopkins with a better jab. Eubank post-Watson may lose a decision he isnt bringing the same power or pressure as Benn.

I'd put money on McClellan KTFO out of Calzaghe though, Calzaghe was always open to right hands and the GMAN has the best 168lb right hand of all time

[lefthook31]

Hill gets a bit of a bum rap for losing to Hearns and getting KO'd by one of the best body shots this side of Palomino-Stracey. He was a good fighter. And I'm talking about McClellan getting Calzaghe or DM around '98 or so. Griffin outboxed Jones for 8 rounds, was an effective stylist with a good defense and had a true master in his corner, who would've known exactly how to deal with McClellan. His toughness and power make him a live body though.

I still feel comfy calling him a one-dimensional banger. By the standards of some of his contemporaries, he was a caveman. And not just in the ring.
Griffen was bombed out in one in the return by a Roy Jones trying to do a Gerald Mclellan.:hey Griffens chin would have been his downfall early as would Hills who I also highly rate as a good boxer.
Cant really agree on Calzahge and DM though. DM especially who would have been right there to tee off on.

[sugarsean]

No SMW in history was taking Benn out that night

agreed, on that night Nigel Benn would of given any supermiddleweight in history (excluded Roy Jones) hell

[Rubber Warrior]

In a recent interview with the man that handed McClellan his first professional defeat, Dennis Milton made it a point to state that he felt boxing history would have played out differently had McClellan faced Benn on neutral ground - and that McClellan would have greatly altered RJJ's achievements and place in the sport circa the late-90's and onward - had they faced each other.

In fact, Milton made it a point to state, given the choice to face Julian Jackson again (a man that leveled him in one round) or Gerald McClellan - he would rather take his chances with Jackson than McClellan.

[lefthook31]

Yeah I dont really know how anyone could come to the conclusions they did on this thread based on one fight with Benn. He didnt even fight like a one dimensional slugger, but did, as I said, have instances like all punchers to forget he could box too, but overall I thought he was doing quite well. He got up on his toes and boxed and moved at times. He did fall in with power shots, but that was his game and it was effective on counters.

[Flea Man]

Judging on film, it's clear that Jackson was the better, harder puncher and the better finisher, and is really a junior middle.