Orlando Canizales?

[Addie]

Where does this technical marvel stand in the all-time rankings at Bantamweight? I understand he made more title defenses at that weight than any other fighter in history, and watching some of his fights on youtube, he impresses the hell out of me. His placement of punches was outstanding, and his variety and punching power equally impressive. He seemed to destroy many of the challengers to his throne, not just beat them. Thoughts on Orlando Canizales?

[teeto]

Where does this technical marvel stand in the all-time rankings at Bantamweight? I understand he made more title defenses at that weight than any other fighter in history, and watching some of his fights on youtube, he impresses the hell out of me. His placement of punches was outstanding, and his variety and punching power equally impressive. He seemed to destroy many of the challengers to his throne, not just beat them. Thoughts on Orlando Canizales?
Be very nice to see more fighters like him now. It's very difficult to rank him, all you have to do to recognise how good he was is watch him at his best. Seabrooks, Hardy etc. He arguably never lost at his ultimate peak. And he avenged his only early loss. But if you want to avoid arguments coming your way in your rankings, then you have got to give way to the McGoverns and Browns, Haradas. It may come as a shock that i'm mentioning him on their level but that's how good he looked to me. You can make the comparisons with Zarate when you think about it, for career. Zarate higher for me though, one of the best that man.

You got him top ten Addie?

[Addie]

Be very nice to see more fighters like him now. It's very difficult to rank him, all you have to do to recognise how good he was is watch him at his best. Seabrooks, Hardy etc. He arguably never lost at his ultimate peak. And he avenged his only early loss. But if you want to avoid arguments coming your way in your rankings, then you have got to give way to the McGoverns and Browns, Haradas. It may come as a shock that i'm mentioning him on their level but that's how good he looked to me. You can make the comparisons with Zarate when you think about it, for career. Zarate higher for me though, one of the best that man.

You got him top ten Addie?

I'll be honest Teeto, I know fuck all about the history of the Bantamweight division. I'm getting my education now, and like you, I feel like I'm watching a truly special fighter when viewing Canizales at his best. Power in both fists, great counter-puncher.

Thinking about a possible Zarate vs Canizales showdown, who do you think wins?

[McGrain]

He's rate very highly on the board in terms of his technical prowess.

[TBooze]

Sadly we never got to see him fight Perez or Jones (at 118). Wins against that kind of opposition, may of made him a legitimate all time top 10 Bantam...

[Addie]

Sadly we never got to see him fight Perez or Jones (at 118). Wins against that kind of opposition, may of made him a legitimate all time top 10 Bantam...

I would have thought Canizales would at least make the top 10 through his outstanding number of title defenses if not on his technical ability? Is there really a dispute about him being a top 10 entrant, I ask...being completely oblivious to the whole thing you see.

[teeto]

I'll be honest Teeto, I know fuck all about the history of the Bantamweight division. I'm getting my education now, and like you, I feel like I'm watching a truly special fighter when viewing Canizales at his best. Power in both fists, great counter-puncher.

Thinking about a possible Zarate vs Canizales showdown, who do you think wins?
I'll try and find my post on it from a while back. I'd go with Zarate but it's highly debatable. Pintor enjoyed success against Zarate by being compact close and landing short combos, his defence didn't look terrible at times either. By the same token you had Zarate arguably winning, but Canizales could do the scoring better than Zarate imo, making room for the angles. It could go either way so i have no reservations on it. Zarate culd pound ridiculously hard though, he'd throw a shot and a guy's head would jerk back, you didn't realise how thudding it was until after it landed. Zarate's ko ratio was 95%. I like him a lot and on that basis i'll pick him to fight it out in a classic and take it.

[Woller]

Orlando Canizales matured like a great redwine. He became better and better. I have a lot of his fights, and he is great to watch.

Woller

[Mantequilla]

The main drawbacks on Canizales overall, imo would be that he didn't unify and fought a lot of average challengers( though nowhere near as bad as some of the other notable longer reigning lighter weight fighters that iddn't get a defining win), plus some of the better ones like Bones adams gave him tough fights.He didn't get that big marquee win in his prime that guys like Zarate and Olivares have.BY the time he fought the likes of Jones and Vazquez he was past his best especially athletically.

He was maybe a bit too polite overall.Compare him to the peak Duran, who he shared a lot of technical similarities with and i'm sure you'll see what i mean.With more of a viscious attitude he would have been awfully tough to beat.


Technically there isn't much to find fault with.One of the great balanced boxer-punchers.

[TheGreatA]

I believe he only defended his titles against a single top ranked opponent. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Sweet Pea]

One of my favorites. He made great use of angles and footwork. He'd make a step to the right and turn his body off a feint to put his opponent off balance and attack with a variety of counters. He was a blistering, but very calculated combination puncher. When on the offensive, he'd vary his attack up from head to body seamlessly, throwing some of the most concise hooks and uppercuts you'll ever see. He also had excellent instinctive reflexes when on the attack, kind of like a Jung-Koo Chang. Not a great defensive fighter, but when he was on he was able to slip and roll punches beautifully, putting him in perfect positions to counter off his opponent's mistakes.

That's another thing about him, he was one of the most offensively aware fighters I've seen at the lower weights. You mentioned his punch placement, which is indeed one of his best traits. Whatever the opponent presented to hit, Orlando hit it. Extremely accurate and smooth when he got his opponent hurt. Just a wonderfully well-schooled fighter.

His only flaw really was a tendancy to coast at certain points during fights he was controlling. When he lands his hands go he was the master, but when he didn't he'd allow opponents to work their way into a fight. I think this could cost him against some of the bigger punchers and/or the better out-boxers and slick stylists.

As to where he'd rank at Bantamweight, it depends on how you're ranking him. He missed out on some of the biggest fights that could've been made, but never faltered against the opposition he was facing. He blitzed Hardy in the rematch after the first fight where he was off form and run very close. I'd say based on ability he's definitely one of the best I've ever seen, but we can't know for sure how he'd have fared against the truly elite in the division because he never really faced that caliber of fighter. The small weaknesses that he did have could've been blown up a bit. Either way he looked as impressive as he could've against the competition he faced, though he had a short prime.

He'd probably be borderline top 10 for me, despite all the greats to have fought in the division. He impressed me that much as a fighter.

[TBooze]

I would have thought Canizales would at least make the top 10 through his outstanding number of title defenses if not on his technical ability? Is there really a dispute about him being a top 10 entrant, I ask...being completely oblivious to the whole thing you see.

I would not think many people who know the history of the Bantams could find a place in their top 10 for Orlando; the division was very strong.

Going though the champs: Dixon, Plimmer, Palmer, McGovern, Moran, Walsh, LeDoux, Williams, Herman, Lynch, Brown, Escobar, Dado, Ortiz, Toweel, Carruthers, Dade, Halimi, Cohen, Becerra, Jofre, Harada, Rose, Olivares, Castillo, Martinez, Zamora, Zarate, Pintor, Chandler, Fenech, Lora, Perez, Austin, Ayala, Marquez and Gonzales are also fighting for a place, and then there are the contenders who did not quite cut it, in the era of the universal champ...

Orlando has a Titanic battle to crack that top 10.

[Mantequilla]

As an aside i remember a few months ago in a discussion on the merits of him and Galaxy, someone going about his style of sliding over to the right for placing the left-hook as a gimmick.

Fucking Galaxy fans;)

[teeto]

I'll be honest Teeto, I know fuck all about the history of the Bantamweight division. I'm getting my education now, and like you, I feel like I'm watching a truly special fighter when viewing Canizales at his best. Power in both fists, great counter-puncher.

Thinking about a possible Zarate vs Canizales showdown, who do you think wins?
Okay i've just found my post from ages ago, it only touches on this fight a bit, but here it is. I've done my homework on these bantams a lot since i posted this so i could very well differ in opinion now, but here:

In my opinion Zarate would beat Canizales in a very close fight where we all feel we saw a great effort by the losing combatant. McGrain nailed it for me, Canizales more organised, Zarate more nasty.

I would also pick Zarate over Rose, Rose could possibly look better for a while against Zarate than he did against Olivares, in fact i'm sure he would, but Zarate is always coming for him in my opinion, when the man starts to stamp his trademark all over the fight he will earn his w on the record in my opinion.

Panama Al Brown is a man that might be able to get a decision, by not co-operating in any war, and countering. But i must say i think Zarate can earn points here also, his own accurate shots can find the mark and well power means something as well. No man ever kept shy of a bantamweight Carlos Zarate so i don't know. This is one where i sit on the fence, but fall off in Zarate's territory.

I think Zarate might outpoint Manuel Ortiz in a war of attrition, but i can't make much of an assumption based on the not extensive footage i have seen, but the same applies for Brown.

Harada, this is harder for me to say than others seem to have it. Harada was a dynamo, he could do the Gavin Rees title winning gameplan to perfection (haha, or lets say Manny Pacquiao), meaning the way he performed against Jofre and Rudkin. Simply lets his hands go and they are faster than fast. I can actually see him winning, but i can see both men winning. Jofre hurt Harada though and Zarate is accurate in his own right, plus more powerful, dare i say he could stop Harada? I might have to pick Harada on points here because i haven't picked a man against him yet. By the way, Masahiko Harada could box, his jab was not a non-existent tool in his arsenal, and he could move also, though for me his greatest way of winnig against the best is as i stated above.

I take Zarate to beat McGovern in a heavy ammunition trade-off.

Now for Jofre, i would pick Jofre because i think he is accurate as can be with his long-range power shots, he can bolo, he can do a sort of inverted or upside down bolo with devastating effect. More to the point, and in more simple terms, he is durable and does the scoring.

Zarate-Olivares is a toss up for me but i'm leaning towards Olivares, only because i think that due to the styles and techniques employed in the actual throwing of punches, Olivares can land plenty. But a toss-up in my opinion as the same maybe can be said vice versa, as Zarate would land on anyone.

[Flea Man]

In terms of fluidity of punching, offensive radar and allround ability, he ranks up there with the very best from straw to 122. As previously mentioned his comp wasn't fantastic (but when you think of the kudos Khaosai Galaxy gets it's unbelievable to think Canizales isn't more revered) but on this board he's rated in accordance. Allroub skillset at Bantam he's top five IMO, along with Rose, Jofre, Olivares and AHEM Khaokor Galaxy :rofl would've loved to see Canizales and Khaokor square off, who takes that prime for prime. Both adaptable guys with varied offensive games. I say Orland squeeks the decision.

[Addie]

One of my favorites. He made great use of angles and footwork. He'd make a step to the right and turn his body off a feint to put his opponent off balance and attack with a variety of counters. He was a blistering, but very calculated combination puncher. When on the offensive, he'd vary his attack up from head to body seamlessly, throwing some of the most concise hooks and uppercuts you'll ever see. He also had excellent instinctive reflexes when on the attack, kind of like a Jung-Koo Chang. Not a great defensive fighter, but when he was on he was able to slip and roll punches beautifully, putting him in perfect positions to counter off his opponent's mistakes.

That's another thing about him, he was one of the most offensively aware fighters I've seen at the lower weights. You mentioned his punch placement, which is indeed one of his best traits. Whatever the opponent presented to hit, Orlando hit it. Extremely accurate and smooth when he got his opponent hurt. Just a wonderfully well-schooled fighter.

His only flaw really was a tendancy to coast at certain points during fights he was controlling. When he lands his hands go he was the master, but when he didn't he'd allow opponents to work their way into a fight. I think this could cost him against some of the bigger punchers and/or the better out-boxers and slick stylists.

As to where he'd rank at Bantamweight, it depends on how you're ranking him. He missed out on some of the biggest fights that could've been made, but never faltered against the opposition he was facing. He blitzed Hardy in the rematch after the first fight where he was off form and run very close. I'd say based on ability he's definitely one of the best I've ever seen, but we can't know for sure how he'd have fared against the truly elite in the division because he never really faced that caliber of fighter. The small weaknesses that he did have could've been blown up a bit. Either way he looked as impressive as he could've against the competition he faced, though he had a short prime.

He'd probably be borderline top 10 for me, despite all the greats to have fought in the division. He impressed me that much as a fighter.

Thanks for that, Pea.

Why weren't the big fights made at Bantamweight during his reign? What other outstanding fighters were in and around his division at the time?

I know there was a few whispers of Barrera perhaps fighting Canizales as he had just won the WBO title at 122lbs. How do you think that would have turned out, I knew he fell short against Jones, in a very close fight. Jones of course, destroying Barrera in 97. When I watch Canizales, he reminds me a lot of Marco in a few instances. They both were great combination punchers, throwing every punch in the book, with Marco having the edge in handspeed, and Orlando clearly being the heavier puncher.

[Flea Man]

I don't ACTUALLY have a list of top 'near to complete Bantams' but there are many great fighters from that division. So many that whenever you make a lost you go 'shit I forgot about.....' but I never forget Canizales. Top fighter.

[Flea Man]

Addie, I strongly suggest you watch Galaxy-Moon 1 and then, a fantastic display in the 2nd fight between the two, both available in their entirety on the tube (if I'm not mistaken, uploaded by WayneBedfre :lol: legend)

[Addie]

Addie, I strongly suggest you watch Galaxy-Moon 1 and then, a fantastic display in the 2nd fight between the two, both available in their entirety on the tube (if I'm not mistaken, uploaded by WayneBedfre :lol: legend)

I've actually seen the first Moon fight, and nothing about Galaxy impressed me too much. Am I mistaken, but that's the fight that Moon wins after a cut which causes the premature stoppage? I also have Galaxy vs Jae-Sok Park on my computer in good quality but I've not gotten round to watching it yet.

We seem to putting a lot of emphasis on Canizales' poor title defenses, but were they any less impressive than Lopez's defenses or Carbajal's defenses ouside of Gonzalez? There just doesn't seem to be that much depth in the lower weights as of late.

[Addie]

Okay i've just found my post from ages ago, it only touches on this fight a bit, but here it is. I've done my homework on these bantams a lot since i posted this so i could very well differ in opinion now, but here:

In my opinion Zarate would beat Canizales in a very close fight where we all feel we saw a great effort by the losing combatant. McGrain nailed it for me, Canizales more organised, Zarate more nasty.

I would also pick Zarate over Rose, Rose could possibly look better for a while against Zarate than he did against Olivares, in fact i'm sure he would, but Zarate is always coming for him in my opinion, when the man starts to stamp his trademark all over the fight he will earn his w on the record in my opinion.

Panama Al Brown is a man that might be able to get a decision, by not co-operating in any war, and countering. But i must say i think Zarate can earn points here also, his own accurate shots can find the mark and well power means something as well. No man ever kept shy of a bantamweight Carlos Zarate so i don't know. This is one where i sit on the fence, but fall off in Zarate's territory.

I think Zarate might outpoint Manuel Ortiz in a war of attrition, but i can't make much of an assumption based on the not extensive footage i have seen, but the same applies for Brown.

Harada, this is harder for me to say than others seem to have it. Harada was a dynamo, he could do the Gavin Rees title winning gameplan to perfection (haha, or lets say Manny Pacquiao), meaning the way he performed against Jofre and Rudkin. Simply lets his hands go and they are faster than fast. I can actually see him winning, but i can see both men winning. Jofre hurt Harada though and Zarate is accurate in his own right, plus more powerful, dare i say he could stop Harada? I might have to pick Harada on points here because i haven't picked a man against him yet. By the way, Masahiko Harada could box, his jab was not a non-existent tool in his arsenal, and he could move also, though for me his greatest way of winnig against the best is as i stated above.

I take Zarate to beat McGovern in a heavy ammunition trade-off.

Now for Jofre, i would pick Jofre because i think he is accurate as can be with his long-range power shots, he can bolo, he can do a sort of inverted or upside down bolo with devastating effect. More to the point, and in more simple terms, he is durable and does the scoring.

Zarate-Olivares is a toss up for me but i'm leaning towards Olivares, only because i think that due to the styles and techniques employed in the actual throwing of punches, Olivares can land plenty. But a toss-up in my opinion as the same maybe can be said vice versa, as Zarate would land on anyone.

You seem to rate Carlos Zarate very highly at Bantamweight in a H2H sense, but what separates Zarate's title defenses from Canizales'? What outstanding fighters was Carlos able to beat? I know Zamora was sporting a stupendous record until he was defeated by Zarate and then seemed to fall off the radar.

[Flea Man]

I've actually seen the first Moon fight, and nothing about Galaxy impressed me too much. Am I mistaken, but that's the fight that Moon wins after a cut which causes the premature stoppage? I also have Galaxy vs Jae-Sok Park on my computer in good quality but I've not gotten round to watching it yet.

We seem to putting a lot of emphasis on Canizales' poor title defenses, but were they any less impressive than Lopez's defenses or Carbajal's defenses ouside of Gonzalez? There just doesn't seem to be that much depth in the lower weights as of late.

That's EXACTLY what I hoped you'd say. Now watch the sequel :deal

[teeto]

You seem to rate Carlos Zarate very highly at Bantamweight in a H2H sense, but what separates Zarate's title defenses from Canizales'? What outstanding fighters was Carlos able to beat? I know Zamora was sporting a stupendous record until he was defeated by Zarate and then seemed to fall off the radar.
That's exactly it. That was what i was getting at saying you can compare their careers a whole lot. You're also on the money in that i rate him head to head and that's where it comes from really, exclusively. Like i said in the post i made on page 1 here though, about Pintor, i have no reservatios anymore when it comes to Zarate-Canizales, could go either way.

[Flea Man]

You seem to rate Carlos Zarate very highly at Bantamweight in a H2H sense, but what separates Zarate's title defenses from Canizales'? What outstanding fighters was Carlos able to beat? I know Zamora was sporting a stupendous record until he was defeated by Zarate and then seemed to fall off the radar.

The Rodolfo Martinez title-winning fight (which I have) is very good even though Zarate gets briefly wobbled. Also, deserved the win over a very, very formidable presence in Lupe Pintor. Although the fight is a stinker.

[Flea Man]

Pintor-Canizales would be an amazing fight, both tidy box-punchers, Canizales more varied, Pintor the harder hitter and more vicious fighter (in the ring anyway) IMO. Got an early fight of Pintors where he stops some redhaired guy in the 2nd round (I think) his precision one-twos and the power he generated made me laugh at loud. Beast.

[Addie]

That's exactly it. That was what i was getting at saying you can compare their careers a whole lot. You're also on the money in that i rate him head to head and that's where it comes from really, exclusively. Like i said in the post i made on page 1 here though, about Pintor, i have no reservatios anymore when it comes to Zarate-Canizales, could go either way.

That's a strange fight. I hear conflicting stories. One person will say Zarate was clearly robbed, and he himself believed it...it caused him to quit Boxing altogether. Then I'll see another article which claims it's a close fight and could have gone either way. I need to sit down and watch it in it's entirety and draw my own conclusions I guess. Personally, I think we should put more emphasis on consistency and title defenses for the Super Flyweights and Bantamweights. You usually only get the 1 or 2 outstanding fighters in the division in each era, we can't hold that against Zarate and co. Maybe he would have won a title at 122lbs had he not had to face the best the division has ever seen.

In today's climate, would it possible for Zarate to win titles all the way up to Featherweight in your estimation? He seemed to be a pretty huge Bantamweight, and his power was that emphatic, perhaps he could have carried it? This is all just speculation, I'm asking someone who knows more about him than I do.

[Sweet Pea]

Rose would've definitely fared better against Zarate than against Olivares, provided he wasn't so badly weight-weakened. Olivares put on a great performance that night, but he wasn't fighting the best Rose by a long shot. I still think he'd have beaten him based on that performance and his aggressive, attacking style, though.

[teeto]

That's a strange fight. I hear conflicting stories. One person will say Zarate was clearly robbed, and he himself believed it...it caused him to quit Boxing altogether. Then I'll see another article which claims it's a close fight and could have gone either way. I need to sit down and watch it in it's entirety and draw my own conclusions I guess. Personally, I think we should put more emphasis on consistency and title defenses for the Super Flyweights and Bantamweights. You usually only get the 1 or 2 outstanding fighters in the division in each era, we can't hold that against Zarate and co. Maybe he would have won a title at 122lbs had he not had to face the best the division has ever seen.

In today's climate, would it possible for Zarate to win titles all the way up to Featherweight in your estimation? He seemed to be a pretty huge Bantamweight, and his power was that emphatic, perhaps he could have carried it? This is all just speculation, I'm asking someone who knows more about him than I do.
I don't reckon he would have done too well moving up to be honest. That power is that power and it's a huge asset. But someone like Morales would bet him for me, the puncher's chance is a constant though.

THAT fight, Pintor-Zarate is a serious contender for hardest to score ever. Don't watch it unless you're up for the challenge.

[Flea Man]

Welll Zarate, the lighter guy, needed 4 attempts to make 122 against Gomez. Looked like shit, but then again, was in against Gomez. Not sure if I'm completely correct but I THINK it's against Davila....Gomez in that fight may be the best fighter Ive ever seen :lol: unbelievable transitions between boxing and all-out attack, post Sanchez he was more of a flat out seek and destroy man.

So, Im not sure whether Zarate would be suited to the higher weights. It was his physical gifts that made him such a force at 118 IMO, his long arms and legs allowed him to get torque into those hooks and uppercuts on the smaller opponent.

[Addie]

I don't reckon he would have done too well moving up to be honest. That power is that power and it's a huge asset. But someone like Morales would bet him for me, the puncher's chance is a constant though.

THAT fight, Pintor-Zarate is a serious contender for hardest to score ever. Don't watch it unless you're up for the challenge.

Well, I always thinking more like today. He'd have Juan Manuel Lopez to contend with, and I would expect Zarate to win that fight emphatically based on what I've seen from both fighters. At Featherweight, which is really weak at the moment, he'd have to beat a Chris John or Luevano. If you move up further, would guys like Guerrero and Soto really pose to much size for a Zarate? At 5'8, how he was even a Bantamweight is quite staggering.

[GPater11093]

Peai aint seen alot of Zarate but i agree a boxer-puncher liek Zarate would ahve more trouble with Rose than Olivares in general.

Rose is a really great fighter IMO in a H2H sense. One of my favrouite fighters to watch but his pure boxing skills are like art. I honestly think he causes all Bantams trouble in his day.

[Flea Man]

Peai aint seen alot of Zarate but i agree a boxer-puncher liek Zarate would ahve more trouble with Rose than Olivares in general.

Rose is a really great fighter IMO in a H2H sense. One of my favrouite fighters to watch but his pure boxing skills are like art. I honestly think he causes all Bantams trouble in his day.

On a day he's comfortable at the weight he's my no.3 h2h at 118 behind Jofre and Olivares. I like Zarate 4th, Harada 5th. There are of course days when that shifts around, but Rose is a lock for top 5 (sometimes Canizales is right up there) as you know I think about the Bantams a fair bit. Jofre and Olivares will always be 1 and 2 resectively, taking it back tonthe thread, Canizales is right u there with these guys IMO, with Ortiz as well, although Canizales' resume sees him between 8-12 or something likethat in my ATG bantams list. I should probably make some roper lists rather than assuming everyone knows what I mean by 'hypothetical brackets' :lol:

[GPater11093]

flea tahts how i have it

H2H

1. Olivares
2. Jofre
3. Rose
4. Harada
5. Zarate

[Flea Man]

flea tahts how i have it

H2H

1. Olivares
2. Jofre
3. Rose
4. Harada
5. Zarate

I have Jofre first. 3-5 are interchangable for me, as I say sometimes I put Ortiz right up there. There are times I watch Zamora when Im convinced only the top,top punchers would trouble him, but then again I feel retry certain Hatada would have enough nuance to mix u his swarming with boxing and stop Zamora late. The Bantams are so damn good it's easy to forget certain fighters, fights and talent sometimes. It's deep. Lora is someone I don't know enough about, though everything I've seen has impressed me.

[GPater11093]

yeh its so deep.

Ortiz is goo IMo of what i have seen but he ca be outboxed

him vs Olivares would be a dream match up

[teeto]

I have Jofre first. 3-5 are interchangable for me, as I say sometimes I put Ortiz right up there. There are times I watch Zamora when Im convinced only the top,top punchers would trouble him, but then again I feel retry certain Hatada would have enough nuance to mix u his swarming with boxing and stop Zamora late. The Bantams are so damn good it's easy to forget certain fighters, fights and talent sometimes. It's deep. Lora is someone I don't know enough about, though everything I've seen has impressed me.
I agree with you. My blood was boiling then, thanks for the shot to calm me down.

[Mantequilla]

Even though he was raw, Fenech shouldn't be underestimated here either.

[Flea Man]

Even though he was raw, Fenech shouldn't be underestimated here either.

Oh fuck! See what I mean? How could I forget Fenech, this was pretty much the last time his hands weren't completely mangled if I'm not wrong. Then you've got the 'walk through anything' assault of Moon. And the varied attack and sheer strength of one of my favourites. Altogether now :rofl

[teeto]

Even though he was raw, Fenech shouldn't be underestimated here either.
I reckon Fenech could beat Zarate to be honest, i'm not 100 percent like, but yeah.

[TBooze]

I reckon Fenech could beat Zarate to be honest, i'm not 100 percent like, but yeah.

Well he did beat him!;)

[Flea Man]

Im firmly in the camp that Zarate at the peak of his powers would fare better. Fenech was super-tough.....aagh it's a hard one. Fenech seemed more of a complete package at the lower weights, I guess because he didn't have to adapt his style although je was undeniably effective at 126 and 130. You know, I really should know more about Fenech, he's someone I've raved on in the past having watched little of :lol: god knows why either, I've seen state, a fight in which I don't know the opponent, and Nelson 1. Ashamed.

[Addie]

I should have named the thread let's talk about every Bantamweight in history except for Canizales. :lol:

[teeto]

Well he did beat him!;)
Nar, not Zarate, you know better mate.

[Mantequilla]

Any takes on Canizales vs Jibaro Perez then if that had taken place with both at their best?.

[TBooze]

Nar, not Zarate, you know better mate.

It would of been intersting had they met in their 118lbs prime. I am figuring Zarate to win though, as he seemed a lot more comfortable at the weight, and had a lot more experience.

[teeto]

It would of been intersting had they met in their 118lbs prime. I am figuring Zarate to win though, as he seemed a lot more comfortable at the weight, and had a lot more experience.
It's a hard one, you've got that strength of Fenech, a force to reckoned with, then you've got that seasoned pro who knows how to find the mark so well, and is durable.

[Flea Man]

I should have named the thread let's talk about every Bantamweight in history except for Canizales. :lol:

In my defence I have consciously made references to this being a thread primarily about Canizales (whilst waffling myself)

mantequilla: please explain about your proosed opponent for Canizales? I'm afraid I don't recall him.

[Addie]

In my defence I have consciously made references to this being a thread primarily about Canizales (whilst waffling myself)

mantequilla: please explain about your proosed opponent for Canizales? I'm afraid I don't recall him.

Fleaman, do you have any Canizales fights on DVD? If so, what are the quality like and do you sell?

[Flea Man]

Fleaman, do you have any Canizales fights on DVD? If so, what are the quality like and do you sell?

Funnily enough a fellow poster o know has his career set but doesn't do copies :lol: check out boxingdvdvideos.com about as comprehensive a set as you'll find on Orlando and at a reasonable price. Delivery takes a while butthats because he does a LOT of orders. It's easy to see why, his sets are quality.

[Addie]

Funnily enough a fellow poster o know has his career set but doesn't do copies :lol: check out boxingdvdvideos.com about as comprehensive a set as you'll find on Orlando and at a reasonable price. Delivery takes a while butthats because he does a LOT of orders. It's easy to see why, his sets are quality.

Does the quality rival that of WayneBedfre though? He seems to have classic fights in ridiculous quality. I bought a Michael Spinks set, and although most of the fights are good quality, what Spinks fights Bedfre does have, are much better quality than mine. Bedfre charges $40 for a disc.

[teeto]

Sorry for the off topic stuff Addie, it was my fault we got onto that other stuff.

[Addie]

Sorry for the off topic stuff Addie, it was my fault we got onto that other stuff.

No problem mate, I don't really have a problem discussing the Bantamweight division anyway. I need to learn more, I never knew how stacked it was. Leaving a fighter like Canizales out of a top 10...is just testament to how many great fighters the division has seen over the last 50 years.

[Flea Man]

Does the quality rival that of WayneBedfre though? He seems to have classic fights in ridiculous quality. I bought a Michael Spinks set, and although most of the fights are good quality, what Spinks fights Bedfre does have, are much better quality than mine. Bedfre charges $40 for a disc.

As long as they're complete fights (or as much as is available) I'm happy. Greg Patterson reckons my copy of Marcel-Arguello is incomplete, but apart from that all the sets I had were fantastic an the Arguello fights I did get were quality. The quality is decent enough, I'd rather pay £18 quid for 61 fights (Holyfield and Holmes) and get numerous docs and pre/post-fight stuff then pay that amount for just a few fights just because it's more defined.

[Mantequilla]

You got Youtube downloader addie?.

[Addie]

You got Youtube downloader addie?.

I've done that with a few fights actually, it's amazing the quality that you can get. But downloading them all...and then putting on disc is a bit of a bitch. They are all separated in parts, I'd rather just buy someone elses sets.

[teeto]

No problem mate, I don't really have a problem discussing the Bantamweight division anyway. I need to learn more, I never knew how stacked it was. Leaving a fighter like Canizales out of a top 10...is just testament to how many great fighters the division has seen over the last 50 years.
It's so stacked, but with pure substance. I haven't watched Canizales for a while now. One thing that is good to just watch rather than be educated with, is how persistently ferocious he could be when in the mood. If he wanted to chase someone and batter them he'd really attempt to.

[Flea Man]

Khaokor vs Canizales is mouth-watering. To me at least.

[teeto]

Khaokor vs Canizales is mouth-watering. To me at least.
You can just refer to him as Galaxy now, i think we'll know which one you mean. It would be quality, imagine the close stuff, the clever stuff at them quarters. It would take forever to view it, you'd just be rewinding all the time. 'Shit look what he just did!', 'that's fuckin quality!!!'.

[Flea Man]

You can just refer to him as Galaxy now, i think we'll know which one you mean. It would be quality, imagine the close stuff, the clever stuff at them quarters. It would take forever to view it, you'd just be rewinding all the time. 'Shit look what he just did!', 'that's fuckin quality!!!'.

Can't understand why that Jock nipper STILL hasn't watched the Moon and Wilfredo Vasquez fights, I've been badgering him for months

[teeto]

Can't understand why that Jock nipper STILL hasn't watched the Moon and Wilfredo Vasquez fights, I've been badgering him for months
Haha, i was just watching Vazquez-Perez on the count of Mantequilla's post. Leaning towards Canizales so far but i'm not the type to make an assumption on one fight.

[Addie]

bump

[teeto]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
0.25 This guy was a spectacular fighter.
Fix that shit.

[teeto]

Please

[Addie]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

0.25 - Ducks the shot, and comes back with a one two..quick as a flash.

[teeto]

Thanks

[Flea Man]

Haha, i was just watching Vazquez-Perez on the count of Mantequilla's post. Leaning towards Canizales so far but i'm not the type to make an assumption on one fight.

Will have to check it out. Galaxy does a damn good job on Vasquez, if I do say so myself (Im ramming it down everyones throats now)

I'd be intrigued to see what Mantequilla would think of canizales-galaxy, he's extremely knowledgable about these weights, moreso than I and I love the Bantams.

[teeto]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

0.25 - Ducks the shot, and comes back with a one two..quick as a flash.
Something's up with my youtube, while i'm waiting, let me ask you. Is that Artur Grigorian in your avatar?

[Flea Man]

Something's up with my youtube, while i'm waiting, let me ask you. Is that Artur Grigorian in your avatar?

It's canizales ain't it :lol:

[Addie]

It's canizales ain't it :lol:

:lol::lol::lol: ....I hope he was kidding.

[teeto]

It's canizales ain't it :lol:
I've jsut realised, i feel a soft twat. He just looks weird to me for some reason.

[teeto]

It's over for me.

Grigorian does look like that shot though!

[Flea Man]

I know what you mean he looks haggard in that pic.

[teeto]

I know what you mean he looks haggard in that pic.
Thank you, i would have accpeted getting slaughtered there without reply.

[Flea Man]

Night lads, have enjoyed this thread :good

addie, make sure you watch khaokors win over wilfredo vasquez and the 2nd fight with Moon. I promise you they are astonuding performances :good

[Addie]

Personally I think Orlando look like a baddd man in my avatar! I'll let you off Teeto. :lol: I'm clearly clutching onto Canizales nuts right about now.

[Addie]

Ight lads, have enjoyed this thread :good

addie, make sure you watch khaokors win over wilfredo vasquez and the 2nd fight with Moon. I promise you they are astouding performances :good

:good Thanks for the input. Galaxy will be high on the agenda of fighters to watch, no doubt.

[Flea Man]

:good Thanks for the input. Galaxy will be high on the agenda of fighters to watch, no doubt.

Good man :good

[teeto]

Later Flea.

When i think of Canizales i think;

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

And here's Grigorian:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Okay i'll stop now.

[Addie]

Later Flea.

When i think of Canizales i think;

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

And here's Grigorian:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Okay i'll stop now.

Holy shit, that does look like the man in my avatar. :lol:

[teeto]

Holy shit, that does look like the man in my avatar. :lol:
Haha, was just watching that vid you posted. Just look how them short punches are compact, some of them are Olivares-esque. The turning of the knuckle at the optimal moment to generate power. Ain't nobody showing that like Olivares though.

Canizales again is different though, the way he can bounce on his feet but to all degrees of a circular motion means he can capitalise on countering from angles that he himself created, it's just great viewing.

[AlFrancis]

:good Thanks for the input. Galaxy will be high on the agenda of fighters to watch, no doubt.

I'll recommend them fights too and Greg why haven't you watched the Galaxy Moon 2 fight yet, you'll love it. By the way flea, I got my Galaxy's mixed up before on facebook, I think you probably noticed. I'd also like to throw in one of my favourites Alberto Davila, a lovely boxer to watch. I'm sure at his peak he'd of given Orlando a battle.

[gooners!!]

He was a little bad ass!

Extremely fast feet, excellent in and out movement, good head movement, tough, durable, well conditioned.

I recently watched his wars with Seabrooks and his fight with Bones Adams. Terrific fights the first two, right up there with Haugen vs Paz 1-2, Bramble vs Mancini 1-2, Mitchell vs Lopez.

I think i had him losing the Bones Adams fight until he squared things up late in the fight, from what i remember it was all on the last two rounds but they stopped the fight, i think it was because of a broken jaw if my memory serves me right. When i watched the fight i was like WTF is going on, why are you stopping the fight when its dead level and up for grabs in the last 2 rounds.

[Flea Man]

I'll recommend them fights too and Greg why haven't you watched the Galaxy Moon 2 fight yet, you'll love it. By the way flea, I got my Galaxy's mixed up before on facebook, I think you probably noticed. I'd also like to throw in one of my favourites Alberto Davila, a lovely boxer to watch. I'm sure at his peak he'd of given Orlando a battle.

I covered both of them anyway!

Davila was tidy as fuck. Sadly the only fights I've seen him in are against 'the best', where he's spirited but on the wrong end of it. Can you recommend any winning efforts of his Al, preferably on YouTube :good

[AlFrancis]

I covered both of them anyway!

Davila was tidy as fuck. Sadly the only fights I've seen him in are against 'the best', where he's spirited but on the wrong end of it. Can you recommend any winning efforts of his Al, preferably on YouTube :good

Doesn't seem to be much on there of his winning fights. The pintor fight is a *******, unfortunately the first 2 rounds are missing. Well worth watching though. The Gomez fight just shows how good Gomez was. he owned him.

[Flea Man]

Yeah, Gomez was so fluid in that fight, and deadly when he wanted to be. His best performance I believe.

[GPater11093]

As long as they're complete fights (or as much as is available) I'm happy. Greg Patterson reckons my copy of Marcel-Arguello is incomplete, but apart from that all the sets I had were fantastic an the Arguello fights I did get were quality. The quality is decent enough, I'd rather pay £18 quid for 61 fights (Holyfield and Holmes) and get numerous docs and pre/post-fight stuff then pay that amount for just a few fights just because it's more defined.

drop the extra T you faggot :D

Marcel vs Arguello on your disk was ripped from Youtube and is about 5 mins long and absouloute terrible quality i couldnt watch it at all. The rest were all mint

Can't understand why that Jock nipper STILL hasn't watched the Moon and Wilfredo Vasquez fights, I've been badgering him for months

I will get round to it my youtube only works for 2 mins thecrashes my computer.

I'll recommend them fights too and Greg why haven't you watched the Galaxy Moon 2 fight yet, you'll love it. By the way flea, I got my Galaxy's mixed up before on facebook, I think you probably noticed. I'd also like to throw in one of my favourites Alberto Davila, a lovely boxer to watch. I'm sure at his peak he'd of given Orlando a battle.

Davilla is another guy to watch

so i got:

Ortiz
Williams
Canizales
Galaxy
Davila