Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

[gooners!!]

Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario ? i thought JLR won myself.



Round 1 Rosario
Landed! more punches imo.

Round 2 Rosario
Ramirez was getting painted with 3 right hands mid round but
Ramirez came back and really hurt Rosario, although Rosario did not go
down and Ramirez did'nt really follow up either, its about one of the few
good shots JLR landed in the round.


Round 3 Rosario
He painted JLR with hard right hands in this round, although JLR
did start to score cleanly towards the end.

Round 4 Ramirez
Rosario landed the harder shots in this round but i thought
Ramirez took it on workrate and consistency througout the
round

Round 5 Rosario
Best round of the fight, and best round of the fight for Rosario, he
hammered JLR with hard! shots in this round


Round 6 Rosario
He did nothing for the first 1st minute and half, then he came
to life and started whacking JLR with hard shots to take the round
on my card, only reason i could not score it for JLR is because even
though he might have thrown more he was not landing with much.

Round 7 Ramirez
Best round of the fight for Ramirez, his most productive in being the
aggressor and actually landing!! he has been aggressive thoughout.

Round 8 Ramirez
Consistent with his attack throughout and landed short
jolting shots throughout.

Round 9 Ramirez
Same as the 8th really, consistent with his attack throughout, landed short
jolting shots throughout. Rosario has gone to sleep and took his foot
of the gas.

Round 10 Ramirez
He was all over!! Rosario in this round, loads of pressure and he
scored throughout

Round 11 Ramirez
pressure and consistency throughout

Round 12 Ramirez

clear round for Ramirez, consistent scoring throughout.


Rosario had this fight under control untill he stopped throwing in mid rounds, he clearly took
his foot of the gas, not doubt because of fatigue. Ramirez has been putting lots of pressure on
throughout but he was not landing his shots consistently for the first 5/6 rounds, however towards
the second half of the fight his accuracy seemed to improve, although you might say that was to do with
Rosario tiring. I thought Ramirez won it and on reflection i think he deserved to win it, he forced the fight
from start to finish and the rounds that Rosario won were rounds which he was probably the less active
fighter but he took some of those rounds on my card because despite being more inactive he was landing
and cleaner shots, that said i could easily see someone swaying to Ramirez in some
of those rounds. Ramirez dominated the late rounds he won with his consistency.

[sweet_scientist]

Been a while since I've seen it so I can't give specifics, but yeah pretty much the trend of the fight was Rosario outboxing Ramirez early and then Ramirez finishing much the stronger.

I had Ramirez taking it by a couple of points, but some of the rounds were close and I can't really say that Jose was robbed or anything.

Ramirez was unlucky not to get decisions against Arguello and Rosario, but he was compensated by his gift against Pea.

[Thread Stealer]

Rosario-Ramirez 1

Rosario: 1, 2, 4, 5, 6
Ramirez: 3, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
Final: 115-113 Ramirez

[gooners!!]

Been a while since I've seen it so I can't give specifics, but yeah pretty much the trend of the fight was Rosario outboxing Ramirez early and then Ramirez finishing much the stronger.

I had Ramirez taking it by a couple of points, but some of the rounds were close and I can't really say that Jose was robbed or anything.

Ramirez was unlucky not to get decisions against Arguello and Rosario, but he was compensated by his gift against Pea.
For sure, it was definitely a close fight.

That was a gift to.:lol:

I watched Chapo destroy Viruet before watching that, hard to believe that was the same guy that went to war with Duran.

[sweet_scientist]

For sure, it was definitely a close fight.

That was a gift to.:lol:

I watched Chapo destroy Viruet before watching that, hard to believe that was the same guy that went to war with Duran in a close fight.

Yeah... in fairness to Viruet though, he was quite far gone by that stage. As early as the Dejesus bout he started looking like shite (Dejesus did too btw, and perhaps even earlier).

[The Wanderer]

Yeah... in fairness to Viruet though, he was quite far gone by that stage. As early as the Dejesus bout he started looking like shite (Dejesus did too btw, and perhaps even earlier).

Being a lightweight and fighting Duran will do that to you, especially if you fight him more than once.

I haven't seen this fight, so sorry that I can't contribute more to the topic at the moment. I may have to try to look it up in the next few days and give you my score.

[gooners!!]

Yeah... in fairness to Viruet though, he was quite far gone by that stage. As early as the Dejesus bout he started looking like shite (Dejesus did too btw, and perhaps even earlier).


Yeah they mentioned he was considered to be on the way down on the broadcast.

Didn't he beat Escalera? have you seen that fight, is it available, how did he beat him?

[sweet_scientist]

Being a lightweight and fighting Duran will do that to you, especially if you fight him more than once.

True that.

Yeah they mentioned he was considered to be on the way down on the broadcast.

Didn't he beat Escalera? have you seen that fight, is it available, how did he beat him? Yeah he did beat him, I haven't seen the fight and don't know if it was filmed though. His next fight against Mamby was definitely filmed, haven't seen it though.

[My2Sense]

Been a while since I've seen it so I can't give specifics, but yeah pretty much the trend of the fight was Rosario outboxing Ramirez early and then Ramirez finishing much the stronger.


It's on Youtube, have another look: :good

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[My2Sense]

I thought Ramirez swept the whole second half of the fight. Even if you gave Rosario every single one of the first six rounds (which is questionable IMO, as I thought at least one or two of those rounds could've gone the other way), Ramirez still shouldn't have gotten any less than a draw. Personally, I thought Ramirez should've won the fight around 7 rounds to 5, maybe 6-4-2 or 7-4-1 - something along those lines.

In my mind, I always felt Rosario lost twice to Ramirez, which was one of the reasons I never got caught up in the hype around him following his win over Bramble.

[gooners!!]

So i just scored Rosario vs Howard Davis but how did you guys have it, who won it for you?

Round 1 Rosario
He was the only one landing punches in
the round

Round 2 Rosario 10/8
Quiet round for the first minute but Rosario hurt
Davis with a an overhand right, then he went on to score a knockdown
with a kind of half hook, half jab.

Round 3 Davis
Good round for Davis he nailed Rosario with the right hand
a few times and was busier than in previous rounds

Round 4 Rosario (close round)
Both had the moments in this round but just liked
Rosario's early pressure and hard punching

Round 5 Davis
again both had their moments but Davis landed the more eye catching
punches, particularly a nice counter uppercut, he was tattooing Rosario
near the ropes at one point, Rosario was too inactive in the round although
he did score also.

Round 6 Davis
Rosario inactive for almost the whole round

Round 7 Davis
Rosario inactive again! Davis scored the jab
early and nailed Chapo with a lovely counter right uppercut
left hook

Round 8 Davis
Few punches landed but Davis dictated the action again whilst
Rosario was inactive

Round 9 Rosario close
Best round for Rosario for some time, both landed in this round
but i thought Rosario closed a bit better

Round 10 Rosario
Good round for Rosario he landed some hard! shots in this round

Round 11 Davis
Davis outworked him imo, dictated the pace, scored the jab and double
counter hooks when he charged in

Round 12 Rosario 10/8
Davis was winning the round but got nailed so i had to score it 10/8, it was
to competitive for me not to award Rosario a 10/8 round, if it was all Davis i could of
gone an even round with the knockdown.

[My2Sense]

So i just scored Rosario vs Howard Davis but how did you guys have it, who won it for you?

Round 1 Rosario
He was the only one landing punches in
the round

Round 2 Rosario 10/8
Quiet round for the first minute but Rosario hurt
Davis with a an overhand right, then he went on to score a knockdown
with a kind of half hook, half jab.

Round 3 Davis
Good round for Davis he nailed Rosario with the right hand
a few times and was busier than in previous rounds

Round 4 Rosario (close round)
Both had the moments in this round but just liked
Rosario's early pressure and hard punching

Round 5 Davis
again both had their moments but Davis landed the more eye catching
punches, particularly a nice counter uppercut, he was tattooing Rosario
near the ropes at one point, Rosario was too inactive in the round although
he did score also.

Round 6 Davis
Rosario inactive for almost the whole round

Round 7 Davis
Rosario inactive again! Davis scored the jab
early and nailed Chapo with a lovely counter right uppercut
left hook

Round 8 Davis
Few punches landed but Davis dictated the action again whilst
Rosario was inactive

Round 9 Rosario close
Best round for Rosario for some time, both landed in this round
but i thought Rosario closed a bit better

Round 10 Rosario
Good round for Rosario he landed some hard! shots in this round

Round 11 Davis
Davis outworked him imo, dictated the pace, scored the jab and double
counter hooks when he charged in

Round 12 Rosario 10/8
Davis was winning the round but got nailed so i had to score it 10/8, it was
to competitive for me not to award Rosario a 10/8 round, if it was all Davis i could of
gone an even round with the knockdown.

I haven't scored it round by round in a while, but I thought Rosario probably pulled it out. Davis did control most of the middle rounds, but Rosario's two KDs and a couple other big rounds were very hard to overcome.

[sweet_scientist]

Had Rosario taking it by a couple of points. But I thought Howard did a better job than what Camacho did to tell you the truth.

Whilst we are discussing Rosario's decisions, I had Rosario's fight with Randall scored even in terms of rounds. But if I was going by the British system where you can award half points, I would have had Rosario ahead because he had a couple of the bigger rounds in the fight.

[gooners!!]

Whilst we are discussing Rosario's decisions, I had Rosario's fight with Randall scored even in terms of rounds. But if I was going by the British system where you can award half points, I would have had Rosario ahead because he had the a couple of the bigger rounds in the fight.Man that was a good fight wasn't it? that has to be an underrated classic imo.

Randall was out on his feet a couple of times. I watched HL's of the rematch and i seem to remember him buzzing or dropping Randall in the rematch to.

[sweet_scientist]

Man that was a good fight wasn't it? that has to be an underrated classic imo.

Randall was out on his feet a couple of times. I watched HL's of the rematch and i seem to remember him buzzing or dropping Randall in the rematch to.

Yeah great little fight.

No 24/7 needed, no hype, no bullshit, just two really good fighters going at it on neutral territory in front of a small but appreciative crowd. :good

[gooners!!]

Yeah great little fight.

No 24/7 needed, no hype, no bullshit, just two really good fighters going at it on neutral territory in front of a small but appreciative crowd. :good

Yep you hit the nail right on the head. :thumbsup

What was your take on Randall as a fighter ?

[sweet_scientist]

Yep you hit the nail right on the head. :thumbsup

What was your take on Randall as a fighter ?

I wasn't really big on his skills, but he was a really tough guy with good stamina and a good punch.

I definitely think he would have beaten the likes of Cotto and Hatton at 140.

It's a pity he did nothing during what should have been the peak years of his career (88-92), where he could have built himself a truly fine legacy.

Would have loved to have seen him fight Buddy MCGirt, Hector Camacho, Rafael Pineda and eventually Sweet Pea. He might have come up short against Pea, but those other fights would have been winnable for him if he was at his best (a McGirt fight would have been close to a 50-50, but I'd slightly favour Buddy).

[gooners!!]

I wasn't really big on his skills, but he was a really tough guy with good stamina and a good punch.

I definitely think he would have beaten the likes of Cotto and Hatton at 140.

It's a pity he did nothing during what should have been the peak years of his career (88-92), where he could have built himself a truly fine legacy.

Would have loved to have seen him fight Buddy MCGirt, Hector Camacho, Rafael Pineda and eventually Sweet Pea. He might have come up short against Pea, but those other fights would have been winnable for him if he was at his best (a McGirt fight would have been close to a 50-50, but I'd slightly favour Buddy).

Good read, do you think he would of beat a prime Chavez ?

[sweet_scientist]

Good read, do you think he would of beat a prime Chavez ?

No I don't think so, but he always gives him a good competitive scrap.

[gooners!!]

No I don't think so, but he always gives him a good competitive scrap.

So at what point do you think Chavez started to slip?

[sweet_scientist]

So at what point do you think Chavez started to slip?

I think he had some good early performances at 130 (Martinez, Mayweather) but then he started getting too big for the weight and started putting in some lacklustre performances after draining himself to make 130 (Laporte, Lockridge). At 135 he looked as good as he ever did against Edwin Rosario. His fight against Ramirez was a little lacklustre but that happens when brothers in law fight.

At 140 I thought he lost a little sharpness, but he was still putting in consistently good performances from 89-93. He was much more patient in these years, not wasting energy unnecessarily. For instance if you look at the Lonnie Smith fight, he is more than content for Smith to prance around the ring for 2 and a half minutes and then he'd put on short bursts to seal the round and get the decision. A younger, hungrier Chavez might have tried to pulverize him instead of letting him give him the run around.

I think after the Whitaker fight he clearly lost something, certainly in motivation, maybe in belief too. His bubble burst, and I don't really think he cared all that much, given how long he had been fighting. He tried to milk the 'getting to 100 wins' angle, but he wasn't willing to get himself into the shape needed to fend of hungry fighters like Randall who were waiting for their chance to make it big.

So all in all, his prime would have been at lightweight, he lost a little speed and sharpness in moving to 140, but then exited his prime well and truly after his fight with Pete at welter.

[gooners!!]

I think he had some good early performances at 130 (Martinez, Mayweather) but then he started getting too big for the weight and started putting in some lacklustre performances after draining himself to make 130 (Laporte, Lockridge). At 135 he looked as good as he ever did against Edwin Rosario. His fight against Ramirez was a little lacklustre but that happens when brothers in law fight.

At 140 I thought he lost a little sharpness, but he was still putting in consistently good performances from 89-93. He was much more patient in these years, not wasting energy unnecessarily. For instance if you look at the Lonnie Smith fight, he is more than content for Smith to prance around the ring for 2 and a half minutes and then he'd put on short bursts to seal the round and get the decision. A younger, hungrier Chavez might have tried to pulverize him instead of letting him give him the run around.

I think after the Whitaker fight he clearly lost something, certainly in motivation, maybe in belief too. His bubble burst, and I don't really think he cared all that much, given how long he had been fighting. He tried to milk the 'getting to 100 wins' angle, but he wasn't willing to get himself into the shape needed to fend of hungry fighters like Randall who were waiting for their chance to make it big.

So all in all, his prime would have been at lightweight, he lost a little speed and sharpness in moving to 140, but then existed his prime well and truly after his fight with Pete at welter.


Speaking of Mario Martinez ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) i thought he beat Azumah Nelson 1st fight, just my opinion.

I just like to add that i dont think his power was as good at 140 either.

Another informative and good read, thanks :good

[MRBILL]

I saw it back in 1983 on TV, but I didn't record that fight.... But, I recall Rosie started off good and then faded and took lumps down the stretch.... Rosie hurt his right hand too, I think.?.? Anyway, I suppose Eddie Rosie won after 12 rds but it was close......... The rematch of '84 was just.....

The '84 rematch is a classic and I own the tape / copy from my old machine....... A great fight on regular TV...... Ramirez roared back to kick some ass and win the title....... Epic......
:admin:happy:bbb:deal

MR.BILL

[sweet_scientist]

Speaking of Mario Martinez ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) i thought he beat Azumah Nelson 1st fight, just my opinion.

I just like to add that i dont think his power was as good at 140 either.

Another informative and good read, thanks :good

He definitely has an argument for winning the first Nelson fight. I edged it for Nelson but I acknowledge there were some swing rounds in that one and I have no prob with anyone thinking Azabache nicked it.

You know if you look at Martinez's resume you won't think much of him, but this guy arguably beat Azumah Nelson, Roger Mayweather and even when he was an old man he came rather close to knocking Fenech out. He never won a title but he was swimming with sharks in those days.

[MrMarvel]

Ramirez. When you engaged Ramirez, he could be dangerous. He beat Rosario twice, and the arguello fight was damn close. I have never been sure about what was up in the Mancini fight. But if you could run all night like Camacho or Whitaker in the first fight, then Ramirez didn't look so good. Whitaker fought a much better fight the next time around. Camacho's victory over Ramirez was very impressive.

[MrMarvel]

So at what point do you think Chavez started to slip?

I don't know if I would call it slipping, but Chavez was over his weight at 140 lbs. He could have ruled 135 for a very long time, and I wish he had stayed there since this is a real weight class. Chavez was getting somewhere past it after the Taylor fight. By Whitaker, Chavez wasn't the same fighter he had been. He was much slower.

[gooners!!]

Ramirez. When you engaged Ramirez, he could be dangerous. He beat Rosario twice, and the arguello fight was damn close. I have never been sure about what was up in the Mancini fight. But if you could run all night like Camacho or Whitaker in the first fight, then Ramirez didn't look so good. Whitaker fought a much better fight the next time around. Camacho's victory over Ramirez was very impressive.
There was a point in the Rosario fight where Rosario backed him up momentarily and got on top of him, and for a moment he looked very uncomfortable but Rosario did not keep it going, Mancini seemed to do that the whole fight didn't he.

Maybe if you backed him up and overwhelmed him he was not the same fighter.

[JohnThomas1]

The correct scoring IMO is Ramirez by a point or a draw.

[My2Sense]

I'd also like to point out here, this was Ramirez at his peak, and I'd say possibly his best performance vs. a world class fighter despite not getting the decision. He looked a lot quicker and sharper here than he would years later around the time he fought Chavez and Whitaker.

[la-califa]

What was the official scoring of Ramirez-Rosario I?

[My2Sense]

What was the official scoring of Ramirez-Rosario I?

I believe all three judges scored it 115-113, two for Rosario and one for Ramirez.

[MRBILL]

Folks,

C'mon, smell the coffee pot that's brewing......... Back in 1983, Ed Rosie was the new hot shot 135 pounder on the block that CBS was eyeing and hyping, along with Hector Camacho...... Rosario fighting a Mexican in Puerto Rico was a natural and all set / staged for a Rosario victory...... BUT! The two fights that Rosario and Ramirez fought turned out to be more of a struggle than ever expected for team Rosario and Puerto Rico......

Jose L. Ramirez had no really backing or hype going into either fight with Rosario in 1983 and '84........ Ramirez was thought to be a lamb for the slaughter.....

I give a lot of credit to Ramirez for overcoming the odds and by willing to travel to Rosario's home turf to rumble..... Yes, of course Ramirez wanted the additional money and a title shot..... But, fact is, Ramirez was thought to be a long shot......

I whacked off in public when Ramirez roard back to TKO Rosario in '84......... Classica....

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

NOW!!! Joe Ramirez was NOT a bum or stiff in 1983; he had a name and reputation as a fierce brawler / puncher at 135 pounds........ But, he was also one-dimensional and slow in hand and foot speed.......... Rosario was figured to be too quick and spry for the slightly older Ramirez........ Ramirez just had great conditioning and intensity at 135 pounds in the early 80s................

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

Ramirez looked slow and tired in 1988 in getting shutout over 12 decent rds by Chavez of good boxing on HBO........ I have a tape of that fight stashed away....... It was not a real barn-burner........ Lotsa' respect and good skill displayed......... Not a classic Mexican fight........ But it was a classic Mexican match-up..........

MR.BILL

[Mantequilla]

Was it an effort not to slip in a reference to hard cocks/wanking in that last post Bill;).

[MRBILL]

Was it an effort not to slip in a reference to hard cocks/wanking in that last post Bill;).

Hey, at least I'm honest....... Christ, I did it in public too......:admin :deal

MR.BILL

[la-califa]

Ramirez looked slow and tired in 1988 in getting shutout over 12 decent rds by Chavez of good boxing on HBO........ I have a tape of that fight stashed away....... It was not a real barn-burner........ Lotsa' respect and good skill displayed......... Not a classic Mexican fight........ But it was a classic Mexican match-up..........

MR.BILL12 rounds?? I believe it went 10 full rounds. Tech. dec. in the 11th. Chavez didn't go full bore because they were good friends at the time. But he did handle Ramirez rather easily.

[MRBILL]

12 rounds?? I believe it went 10 full rounds. Tech. dec. in the 11th. Chavez didn't go full bore because they were good friends at the time. But he did handle Ramirez rather easily.

Yeah..... Now you mention it.... It was a tech. win for Chavez over Ramirez.......... A cut by a butt forced the early decision........ It has been a while since I watched the tape......... I thought the fight was over-hyped........ It didn't really heat up to my liking........ The rds were pretty close overall, but Chavez was winning them all (10-9) on my card........ Chavez won........
:good

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

And earlier in 1985 on HBO, Camacho came out firing and decked Ramirez in the opening stanza only to allow Ramirez to get up and press forward like a slow-poke for the next 11 rds in losing a unanimous decision to Camacho.......... I recall after the 5th or 6th round that I was getting fed up with the same old shit of jabbing, circling, running and jiving by Camacho.......... That might have been the fight were I figured out for good that Camacho was a normal puncher with abnormal speed......... The fight became boring......... I have that tape too.........

MR.BILL

[My2Sense]

C'mon, smell the coffee pot that's brewing......... Back in 1983, Ed Rosie was the new hot shot 135 pounder on the block that CBS was eyeing and hyping, along with Hector Camacho...... Rosario fighting a Mexican in Puerto Rico was a natural and all set / staged for a Rosario victory...... BUT! The two fights that Rosario and Ramirez fought turned out to be more of a struggle than ever expected for team Rosario and Puerto Rico......

Jose L. Ramirez had no really backing or hype going into either fight with Rosario in 1983 and '84........ Ramirez was thought to be a lamb for the slaughter.....

I give a lot of credit to Ramirez for overcoming the odds and by willing to travel to Rosario's home turf to rumble..... Yes, of course Ramirez wanted the additional money and a title shot..... But, fact is, Ramirez was thought to be a long shot......



Yep.

Rosario was supposed to be "the next Duran" or "the next Wilfredo Gomez" after he KO'd Viruet, but those fights blew it for him. Those fights would always cloud his reputation, even after his big win over Bramble.

[gooners!!]

Yep.

Rosario was supposed to be "the next Duran" or "the next Wilfredo Gomez" after he KO'd Viruet, but those fights blew it for him. Those fights would always cloud his reputation, even after his big win over Bramble.


Isn't it just madness though, Mancini handled Ramirez easily!. Bramble gave Mancini hell in two fights, Rosario struggles with Ramirez but Rosario knocked Bramble out with minimal fuss, thats Boxing eh :lol:

[MRBILL]

Yep.

Rosario was supposed to be "the next Duran" or "the next Wilfredo Gomez" after he KO'd Viruet, but those fights blew it for him. Those fights would always cloud his reputation, even after his big win over Bramble.

I know that Livy Bramble turned out to be a lemon after his '86 loss to Rosario on HBO, and that in itself is a whole different tale in which I will not go into at this time..... Fact is, Bramble never really rebounded after losing his WBA title to Rosario.... His career sagged in and out up until 1990 or '91....... By 1992, Bramble was a washed-up pug holding onto a cloudy dream..........

HOWEVER! I swear.... I have the fight on tape....... I do believe that Bramble took a thumb in the eye as he was against the ropes in the second round with Rosario..... Roasario came in with an uppercut that caught Bramble, but Roasario's thumb looked like it went into Bramble's eye-socket...... Bramble immediately flinched and looked stunned / blinded...... Then Rosario went on the attack and landed the kitchen sink on Bramble........ Bramble went down and looked like he was praying to one of his Rasta God's.... Upon rising at around the ref's count of 10, Bramble's eyes' were closed and he motioned he was blinded / thumbed........ Bramble did get his ass kicked, but he did take a thumb from Roasario.........
:deal:scaredas:

MR.BILL

[JohnThomas1]

I know that Livy Bramble turned out to be a lemon after his '86 loss to Rosario on HBO, and that in itself is a whole different tale in which I will not go into at this time..... Fact is, Bramble never really rebounded after losing his WBA title to Rosario.... His career sagged in and out up until 1990 or '91....... By 1992, Bramble was a washed-up pug holding onto a cloudy dream..........

HOWEVER! I swear.... I have the fight on tape....... I do believe that Bramble took a thumb in the eye as he was against the ropes in the second round with Rosario..... Roasario came in with an uppercut that caught Bramble, but Roasario's thumb looked like it went into Bramble's eye-socket...... Bramble immediately flinched and looked stunned / blinded...... Then Rosario went on the attack and landed the kitchen sink on Bramble........ Bramble went down and looked like he was praying to one of his Rasta God's.... Upon rising at around the ref's count of 10, Bramble's eyes' were closed and he motioned he was blinded / thumbed........ Bramble did get his ass kicked, but he did take a thumb from Roasario.........
:deal:scaredas:

MR.BILL

You sure it wasn't the punch that cut him Bill ;)