the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

[McGrain]

Charlie Magri v Eleconcio Mercedes, terrific fun, two excellent fighters throwing big bombs.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

just watched arsmtrong vs ambers, not really sure how anyone could score it to ambers tbh. seems a close but clear armstrong victory to me.



By the way Luf....check out this thread I made a while back.....Some interesting posts there...check out Klompton´s posts.....
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[lufcrazy]

Just watched benitez vs cervantes, palomino and duran.

I think cervantes might actually be his career best performance. has a 17 year old ever looked that good?

His control of range, timing and elusiveness was all top notch and against a prime divisional atg like cervantes.

Amazing stuff.

ali (vs terrell)
armstrong (vs ross)
arguello (vs kobayashi)
benitez (vs cerantes)
angott (vs zivic)
basilio (vs de marco)
apostoli (vs steele)

[Flea Man]

Charlie Magri v Eleconcio Mercedes, terrific fun, two excellent fighters throwing big bombs.

Ima get Mercedes fight with Castillo when I get back off holiday, where he won the 'lineal' Flyweight championship.

You seen anything else of him McGrain? One of the most ridiculously tough matched fighters I've ever come across, but with Olympic pedigree and, as the Magri fight displays, some talent.

[McGrain]

Colin Jones D12 Milton McCrory

I think the reactions of the two fighters at the decision tells the story here. Jones celebrated like he had won, McCory was devastated. On the other hand it's a little more complicated.

A great fight described by the styles of the two men, Jones an enormously tough swarming puncher with low volume, McCory a box-mover with a stiff jab. I thought McCrory looked really good here, a little left hand happy and leaning in on occasion with lunging punches, but for the most part a very decent techie with a schooled straight lead and fine footwork. Jones did exactly what he said he wasn't going to do, and ceeded the early rounds to his American opponent, but he also forced McCrory to change his own plan. Determined to stay in and out-fight the Welshman he instead had to get up on his bike and run for large chunks of the fight. Jones was absolutely impossible to discourage, swallowing everythying that was thrown at him, and McCrory had some punches, left hook to the body and jab upstairs are standouts, but the straight right and a sneak uppercut also made an impact.

It looked like being a fight very much of two halves, but McCrory did manage to pinch the 8th on the run (whatever the hugely biased Carpenter commentary might lead us to believe) and also rallied beautifully in the 11th and 12th, despite looking out of it, to take those rounds on my card.

Speaking of which, my card is wider than even the judge that scored for McCrory and the considerable heart and grit Jones showed probably entitled him to more. Still, you score the rounds and not the fights I guess.

JONES: 6,7,9,10

McCRORY: 1,2,3,4,5,8,11,12

8-4 McCrory

[McGrain]

You seen anything else of him McGrain? One of the most ridiculously tough matched fighters I've ever come across, but with Olympic pedigree and, as the Magri fight displays, some talent.

Nah, I don't know much about him at all. I do have that fight though, so hang fire i may get it uploaded.

[McGrain]

Larry Holmes TKO11 Renaldo Snipes.

I like Snipes. I like his face in the corner between rounds. He looks like he's going to cry. I'm not denigrating him though, this was some brave effort, he came to fight and he almost made it work. That punch in the seventh must have been as hard as Holmes would ever be hit, the Shavers moment aside? It was a really strange KD also, the slow-motions sinking into a kind of half-splits.

I also don't like the talk of Holmes taking Snipes lightly, particularly. His right-hand looked extremely sharp, uppercuts and the right hook coming square off that punch. Snipes was just inspired. Holmes was ready for his "Buster Douglas" moment though, and he has better recovery than Tyson, which made all the difference. He was ready to domnate slightly in the very next round.

Good fight. I got no problem with that stoppage. Snipes was taking that right hand flush, and although Holmes didn't look like he was rushing that's worse, not better. He measured Snipes for every one of those horrible punches. If it had gone on a little, I could have got on board with that, but i've no problem really.

[McGrain]

Sugar Ray Leoanrd KO3 Bruce Finch

"As one-sided as a lynching" according to the rather colourful commentary...

Leoanrd showed all his punches here and was in scintillating form. This is how you do it against inferior opposition. A beautiful moment in round two where Leonard allowed himself to be steered to the ropes and pinned before dropping a sharp combination on a totally beffudled Finch who went into reverse faster than he would have done had he...walkedi in on a lynching I guess you could say?

Also noteworthy for the type of intimate and direct pep talk that made Dundee famous. "Do your thing and this kid'll fall apart." It sounds inadaquete, a platitude, but as was so often the case, he was quite right.

[McGrain]

Colin Jones KO2 Hans-Henrik Palm

Great performance from Jones and he shows a really nice snapping jab in one but Palm maybe starts the second round better and finds his stride before Jones just cracks out an absolute beauty of a left hook and Palm is gone. Jones shows some cracking punches to close the show ripping in all kinds of hard shots to close the blinds. Real nice miniature.

[lufcrazy]

Took a short break from my list to watch something a bit more recent.

Pac-Jmm 1

1:10-6
2:10-9
3:9-10
4:9-10
5:9-10
6:9-10
7:10-9
8:10-9
9:9-10
10:9-10
11:9-10
12:9-10

112-113

Over the 3 fights I have it 1-1-1 (the second I gave to pac 114-113; the third I scored 114-114)

Good fight and I'm not sure which round I scored differently last time I score it but JMM boxed really well rounds 3-12 (dropping only 2 on my card).

JMM as a featherweight is regarded pretty high imo with victories in my book against:

julio gervacio
agapito sanchez
alfred kotey
juan cabrera
freddie norwood
daniel jimenez
robbie pedan
manuel medina
derrick gainer
manny pacquiao
orlando salido
victor polo
chris john

not sure where I rank him in the divisions history but I think it'll compare quite well with other more famous featherweights.

[Flea Man]

Nah, I don't know much about him at all. I do have that fight though, so hang fire i may get it uploaded.

Why the edit? ;-)

Please do, and thanks :good

[Flea Man]

Took a short break from my list to watch something a bit more recent.

Pac-Jmm 1

1:10-6
2:10-9
3:9-10
4:9-10
5:9-10
6:9-10
7:10-9
8:10-9
9:9-10
10:9-10
11:9-10
12:9-10

112-113

Over the 3 fights I have it 1-1-1 (the second I gave to pac 114-113; the third I scored 114-114)

Good fight and I'm not sure which round I scored differently last time I score it but JMM boxed really well rounds 3-12 (dropping only 2 on my card).

JMM as a featherweight is regarded pretty high imo with victories in my book against:

julio gervacio
agapito sanchez
alfred kotey
juan cabrera
freddie norwood
daniel jimenez
robbie pedan
manuel medina
derrick gainer
manny pacquiao
orlando salido
victor polo
chris john

not sure where I rank him in the divisions history but I think it'll compare quite well with other more famous featherweights.

That resume is not all that IMO.

[lufcrazy]

That resume is not all that IMO.

Hamed, mab and em are glaring misses but all in all I think it's actually quite a strong resume tbh.

From top of my head, not a great amount of feather's can beat it.

[Flea Man]

There's a lot of recognisable names but not many genuinely good names.

[lufcrazy]

There's a lot of recognisable names but not many genuinely good names.

pac is a great name though. john, norwood and gainer were all top names. sanchez, peden and salido are pretty good names.

I think it's pretty good.

I've not sat down and listed but as I say, I can't think of many feather's to surpass it.

For example two of the better regarded feather's resume at the weight isn't massively better

Armstrong:
Covelli, Milling, Wolgast, Leyvas, Arizmendi, Zurita, Belloise, Casanova, Sarron.


Arguello:
Gomez, Rodriguez, Legra, Garcia, Hafey, Olivares, Riasco,Kobayashi.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Legra´s resume is not great....this is fair to say.....but in my opinion his H2H ability is close to MAB, and even close to Pac at that weight.......and clearly better than Jhon, Norwood or Gainer......

[lufcrazy]

Legra´s resume is not great....this is fair to say.....but in my opinion his H2H ability is close to MAB, and even close to Pac at that weight.......and clearly better than Jhon, Norwood or Gainer......

Straight up, I think pac is the best name across all 3 resumes there.

Anyways, I'm not arguing that jmm has a better feather resume than those, I'm saying I think the distance between them isn't huge.

[Flea Man]

You haven't highlighted Zurita or Casanova?

As a featherweight Pac' was not as good as some of those guys IMO.

[lufcrazy]

You haven't highlighted Zurita or Casanova?

As a featherweight Pac' was not as good as some of those guys IMO.

Bold was HOF, Underline was Premiere fighter, Italic was top 5 ranked at the time of the fight. Those were neither.

You could well be right on that and he certainly made massive improvements after the first marquez fight.

[lufcrazy]

Back to my list.

Just watched Benvenuti stop Rodriguez (any better footage of benvenuti out there?)

He fights very good but he seemd fairly easy to tag, his jab, whilst good wasn't spectacular. His ko shot was brilliant and he'd landed that left hook all fight long.

I think I'm trying to say he looked solid bu unspectacular. Comparable in terms of tier to Basilio IMO. to an untrained eye like mine, they also look similar at times jabbiong and spoiling but with great power hidden in a not great ko percentage.

ali (vs terrell) [A]
armstrong (vs ross) [A]
arguello (vs kobayashi) [B]
benitez (vs cerantes) [B]
angott (vs zivic) [C]
basilio (vs de marco) [D]
benvenuti (vs rodriguez) [D]
apostoli (vs steele) [D]

Does my grading seem fair there? scrap fair because this is all highly subjective, does it seem outrageous or reasonable?

[Flea Man]

Maybe because Rodriguez is truly one of the greatest fighters of all time? I've never been particularly impressed with Benvenuti, one handed, and easy to tag, some subtle nuances to set up his left but getting twatted by Emile Groffith (one punch) And inconsistency mark him down.

The win over Rodriguez, a lock for my top 25, is serious stuff though.

[Flea Man]

Bold was HOF, Underline was Premiere fighter, Italic was top 5 ranked at the time of the fight. Those were neither.

You could well be right on that and he certainly made massive improvements after the first marquez fight.

Fair enough. I think Pacqiuao became better once he stopped cutting weight.

[GPater11093]

Back to my list.

Just watched Benvenuti stop Rodriguez (any better footage of benvenuti out there?)

He fights very good but he seemd fairly easy to tag, his jab, whilst good wasn't spectacular. His ko shot was brilliant and he'd landed that left hook all fight long.

I think I'm trying to say he looked solid bu unspectacular. Comparable in terms of tier to Basilio IMO. to an untrained eye like mine, they also look similar at times jabbiong and spoiling but with great power hidden in a not great ko percentage.

ali (vs terrell) [A]
armstrong (vs ross) [A]
arguello (vs kobayashi) [b]
benitez (vs cerantes) [b]
angott (vs zivic) [C]
basilio (vs de marco) [D]
benvenuti (vs rodriguez) [D]
apostoli (vs steele) [D]

Does my grading seem fair there? scrap fair because this is all highly subjective, does it seem outrageous or reasonable?

You gradingthe quality of the fights?

ecause if you are that is ludicrous.


Also on Benvenuti he sort of reminds me of Minter in that he dosent look good ut he gets stuff done. Also how ig is he for a formerLMW< guys huge fora Middleweight anyway.

[lufcrazy]

Maybe because Rodriguez is truly one of the greatest fighters of all time? I've never been particularly impressed with Benvenuti, one handed, and easy to tag, some subtle nuances to set up his left but getting twatted by Emile Groffith (one punch) And inconsistency mark him down.

The win over Rodriguez, a lock for my top 25, is serious stuff though.

Could be, does he look better against mazzinghi than he did against lmr? Hard to say.

Some top names on his resume for sure. Just doesn't look top tier on film to me. Seems a lever below the likes of benitez and arguello.

It'll be interesting when I get to lmr, nailing down his peak performance is something I look forward to!

[lufcrazy]

You gradingthe quality of the fights?

ecause if you are that is ludicrous.


Also on Benvenuti he sort of reminds me of Minter in that he dosent look good ut he gets stuff done. Also how ig is he for a formerLMW< guys huge fora Middleweight anyway.

No, the quality of the victor's skillset in the fight.

I'm not ranking the fights in greatness, not even the fighters in greatness.

Just ranking how good the fighter's look in their peak performance.

[Flea Man]

Some fighters just aren't as aesthetically pleasing as others, as Greg said.

[Flea Man]

And ain't seen either of Nino's fights with Benvenuti.

Seen some of two of his fights with Griffith, all the Rodriguez fights and both fights with Monzon. EDIT: And losing to a probably cancer-ridden Dick Tigerz

[Flea Man]

Tigerz was a typo but I'm keeping it in. Sounds like a kids soft toy, and with a smile like that, probably could be.

[lufcrazy]

You stoned again lol?

Yeah I agree that some guys don't look good on film. Some guys don't have a good resume despite looking very good. Some guys never hit the top despite looking good on film and having a good resume.

I like to judge fighters on a mixture of the 3.

H2h is too subjective for me to be comfortable, seeing how effective a man was on his best night is much more reasonable to judge.

[Flea Man]

No I'm not stoned for the first time in over a year! Don't risk it out here mate!

[GPater11093]

enitez is amazing against Cervantes

[McGrain]

Why the edit? ;-)

Please do, and thanks :good

I edited that post because i hadn't informed you that i might have that fight. I actually don't/can't find it though. I found 3 rounds on a video which is a bit bizarre i'm going to get it transferred across if I can't find the fight itself.

[lora]

the Rodriguez Benvenuti bout was far from either man at their best imo.Minter is a good later comparison to Benvenuti, though Nino was more athletic and a more consistent disciplined ring-general(and not liable to bleed at the first flush punch)


I don't see why head to head is so dodgy for some.In the end it's just an opinion of how good and effective you think a fighter is.

[lufcrazy]

the Rodriguez Benvenuti bout was far from either man at their best imo.Minter is a good later comparison to Benvenuti, though Nino was more athletic and a more consistent disciplined ring-general(and not liable to bleed at the first flush punch)


I don't see why head to head is so dodgy for some.In the end it's just an opinion of how good and effective you think a fighter is.

When did nino ever look better?

H2h is fine I just don't wanna base any rankings on it.

[lora]

I think it would be easier to ask when did he look worse.uglier middleweight title fights are harder to find than that one.

If you just want one Nino fight to watch that will be easy enough to get hold of, i'd go with the first Griffith fight.

[GPater11093]

Its a real shame LMR never got a title shot earlier at Middleweight he was tearing some good Middles apart. Him vs Tiger would have been a near toss up IMO

[lufcrazy]

Lora, would you say the emile fight is nino's peak performance?

[Flea Man]

I wouldn't, Griffith nearly sparks him.

[GPater11093]

Griffith could punch though, and Benvenuti goes onto win it dosent he? (The first one if I'm minding right)

[Flea Man]

Lovely shot from Emile.

[brando18b4h]

Watched Joe Frazier vs Ron Stander, Joe wins via 4th rd TKO. Ron gave it his all, rocked Joe a couple of times with his big right. George Chuvalo is one of the best commentaters in the sport. Three things stand out, Fraziers razor sharp left hook, the ring looked really small and everyone seemed to have the worst sideburns and comb overs ever. having been a part of that great era of HW boxing I can LMAO at this.

[McGrain]

Mark Kaylor KO5 Roy Gumbs

It's a wight old fashioned pwoper Bwitish and Commenwealf showdawn innit???????

And maybe Kaylor's best performance. He comes out dominating with a good stiff jab and by the fourth has a lot of different punches working for him against a drilled competent banger in Gumbs. In fourth he gets punched all around the ring by said banger who looks on the verge of what would have been a slight upset by a defending champion when he dropped Kaylor on accumliation. Kaylor looked like he knew where he was to me, but it was still a surprise to see him ralley so forcefully in round 5.

A right-hand happy Kaylor scored over and again and Gumbs just started to break down, cut, suddenly dis-interested looking. He had a distant expression in his eyes a full minute before he was forced to all fours for the second attrition knockdown of the fight. It was one of those stoppages where the beaten fighter gets up right on 10, gets waved off and doesn't complain. I think he had his heart totally broken by a guy who took his best then came back with better. Good scrap.

[McGrain]

Frank Cedano KO7 Charlie Magri

Some beltinig moments in commentary from Carpenter here.

"Magri lands a right hand on Cerdano's...Chinese looking face...Cerdano peers out at him through slanty eyes."

Fabulous fight. Magri won the first two rounds barely but had all the head-movement beaten out of him in the third. You can tell when a fighter never settles to head-movement properly because it's something they can only do when they are fresh and/or unhurt. As soon as Magri gets hurt he forgets his head-movement. But there's a telling moment in the third where he shucks left, then right, bobs up and gets jabbed on his face. Cerdano just found him, and when he did those jab-straight combos couldn't miss. He added a winging right hook as the fight progressed and the trailing uppercut for the first KD was a beaut.

Not the southpaw curse, just Magri getting beaten up by a tougher, bigger fighter.

[lora]

:lol::lol:

Magri was a good offensive fighter, big puncher and dangerous in the early rounds; a classic frontrunner, stylistically if not mentally.Seemed to be one of those fighters who lost a lot quickly after a tough fight or two, laciar took a fair bit out of him i reckon.

Kaylor would have been formidable world class, had he a very good\great chin and not a mediocre one.He had that morales-esque heart and love for fighting, size, very good power and strong offensive skills.As it was, a great action fighter and good 2nd tier contender imo.

[McGrain]

Kaylor looked fabulous there. A good chin, I agree, would have rendered him genuinely formidable.

lora, or anyone else, what happened in Kaylor-Cerda?

[Conn]

Sugar Ray Leoanrd KO3 Bruce Finch

"As one-sided as a lynching" according to the rather colourful commentary...



That's one of Reg's. :good

He trotted that one out for the Larry Holmes - Marvis Frazier fight too.

[McGrain]

Frank Fletcher-Domingo Roldan.

Real good fun this, Roldan comes out like he's a lunatic and runs into an actual one. Though Roldan calms down and tries to counterpunch a little bit he's still basically running mad, and you can't blame him after he throws Fletcher clean out of the ring early doors. Trying to hit him with backhanders and all sorts of shit. Beautiful KO, picture perfect uppercut and then a horribel right hand to knock Fletcher cleanly out. Apart from the dangerous looking knockout it's an absolute hoot.

[salsanchezfan]

Frank Fletcher-Domingo Roldan.

Real good fun this, Roldan comes out like he's a lunatic and runs into an actual one. Though Roldan calms down and tries to counterpunch a little bit he's still basically running mad, and you can't blame him after he throws Fletcher clean out of the ring early doors. Trying to hit him with backhanders and all sorts of shit. Beautiful KO, picture perfect uppercut and then a horribel right hand to knock Fletcher cleanly out. Apart from the dangerous looking knockout it's an absolute hoot.


Roldan was fun. He used to wrestle bears, so they say.

[McGrain]

Barry McGuigan KO6 Valerio Nati

Bit of a coming of age for Barry this. Nati was useful and durable and experienced at European title level having fought there nine times previously. McGuigan puts the pieces of his upstairs downstairs attack together to lift the title. I thought Nati did ok early and I actually scored him the first two rounds but he visibly started to wilt as McGuigan began landing left-hooks to the body and eventually the right hands. His problem is he doesn't know what to do with himself once McGuigan finds his stride, if he backs up he passes up the only opportunity he has to win the fight, volume, if he comes on he is exposed downstairs, and although he's durable, he's not taking these shots. left hook that finally does the damage, as Nati clearly sags after taking that body shot before shipping two left-hands upstairs.He throws himself to the ground before Barry can follow up and pretty much quits without any air in him.

I love the crowd for McGuigan's fights. They absolutely roar the place down for the punches that his misses...they love him. The world could use an Irishman that fights like a Mexican right now.

[Flea Man]

Frank Cedano KO7 Charlie Magri

Some beltinig moments in commentary from Carpenter here.

"Magri lands a right hand on Cerdano's...Chinese looking face...Cerdano peers out at him through slanty eyes."

Fabulous fight. Magri won the first two rounds barely but had all the head-movement beaten out of him in the third. You can tell when a fighter never settles to head-movement properly because it's something they can only do when they are fresh and/or unhurt. As soon as Magri gets hurt he forgets his head-movement. But there's a telling moment in the third where he shucks left, then right, bobs up and gets jabbed on his face. Cerdano just found him, and when he did those jab-straight combos couldn't miss. He added a winging right hook as the fight progressed and the trailing uppercut for the first KD was a beaut.

Not the southpaw curse, just Magri getting beaten up by a tougher, bigger fighter.

:rofl

You seen Cerdeno lose the title to Kobayashi? If not I'll upload it when I get back...I take it you have subscribed to my channel? :hey

Lora, any update on Zapata-Vorasingh or Berkrek-and guy who's name I (criminally) can't remember at the mo'?

[McGrain]

Yeah, upload it dude. Imma start uploading a couple of things I think.

[Flea Man]

Give me a week or so, too busy gettin' my cock sucked for the next week.

[McGrain]

It's good that you and your dad are so close.

[WhataRock]

:lol:

[Flea Man]

It's good that you and your dad are so close.

Fucker :lol: That's non-consented bumming I'll have you know.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Emile Griffith vs Brian Curvis

Good infighting skills by both.....nice defensive skills by Curvis, very elusive......But Curvis stays in the close range a bit too much ....even so he landed good body punches himself sometimes......however, the Emile´s body punches really hurted him more than once after the first 5 rounds....hard hard body shots !!

Curvis didn´t try to box all the time.....but when he did (especially in the second half of the fight).. it was really good to watch....
The british landed great straight lefts during the fight....


EG - 1, 3, 6 (10-8 body punch), 7, 8, 10 (10- 8 ), 11, 12, 13 (10-8, body punch again), 14, 15

BC- 2, 4, 5, 9

[lora]

I haven't come across them Flea.To be honest i need to put a good few days aside to really sort stuff out.

[GPater11093]

Griffiths right uppercut to the body was sickening. Lovely performance by Griffith.

Watched Benitez vs Cervantes. Really good performance by Benitez but it is a weird fight. For long periods of the fight Benitez is making Cervantes miss but not really doing much with it. I loved the way Benitez negated Cervantes' range, by slightly leaning to his own left and pivoting through with a snappy jab, really lovely stuff.

Offensivly Benitez wasn't as sharp ashe would become, although he showed it in flashes, like the fifteenth for instance where he gets inside and throws four lovely uppercuts to the body and throughout the early rounds he lands some lovely 1-2-left hooks combinations. But generally his offence consists of his jab and a lunging left hook and as the bout progressed he got slightly more sloppy with each, however, admirably, kept his defensive poise, resulting in a weird situation where Cervantes was keeping good form but couldnt land anything because of Benitez defence and Benitez couldnt capitalise on the misses because of his offensive sloppiness.

Benitez became a much more aesthetically pleasing fighter up at Welterweight IMO, just hadnt quite put everything together here.

Benitez :1,2,3,4,5,7,12,13,15
Cervantes:8,10,14
Total: 147-141 Benitez (9-3-3)

Rounds missing: 6,9,11

Version I watched was the best quality version around but has three rounds missing, have a fullcopy somewhere.

[WhataRock]

Joe Calzaghe-Charles Brewer

Reasonably entertaining fight...Starts at a very brisk pace, both guys very willing to mix it up early.
Joe won wide but not easily if you ask me...Makes a bit of a meal of it at times with his winging shots and awkward showboating..But once he calmed down a bit and started using his footspeed and 1-2/left leads down the pipe he ran away with it.

Never really seem to bother the average whiskers of Brewer but Charles seemed to have the best passage late in the 7th where he had Joe a little bit buzzed from a succession of hooks and uppercuts.

JC...2,3,4,5,6,8,9,10,12
CB..1,7
Scored the 11th even..couldn't really split them there, neither did particularly clean work..Brewer had a good last minute, Joe seemed to edge to early part of the round.

The first I could see for Joe but IMO he wasn't landing anything of real quality..was made to miss big at times and took some clean shots on the inside that the Welsh crowd probably would have missed.

JC's conditioning is something else though..only thing that really stood out for me in this fight.

[HawkFan16]

Pacquiao-Marquez III

Round 1: 10-9 Pacquiao
Round 2: 10-9 Marquez
Round 3: 10-9 Pacquiao
Round 4: 10-9 Pacquiao
Round 5: 10-9 Marquez
Round 6: 10-9 Marquez
Round 7: 10-9 Marquez
Round 8: 10-9 Pacquiao
Round 9: 10-9 Pacquiao
Round 10: 10-9 Pacquiao
Round 11: 10-9 Marquez
Round 12: 10-9 Pacquiao

115-113 Pacquiao

Close fight overall. Rounds 6, 8, 9, and 10 were all close rounds, and I can understand why people would score either of those rounds in either direction. I really don't see how people think Marquez won this one 9-3 though. It could be scored 8-4 for either guy depending on how you score the swing rounds, but I think the fairest outcome would be 7-5 in either direction or a draw.

[WhataRock]

Ike Quartey TKO4 Jung Oh Park.

I can't recall ever seeing this...Ike puts on a solid display against a resilient and gutsy but ultimately inept Korean opponent.

Good stoppage because Park looked like he would have hung around for a few more rounds soaking up unnecessary punishment...He was already bruised and busted up at the end of the first round and by the end of the 4th was looking very worse for wear.

Surprising this was even sanctioned to be honest, seeing it was in New Joyzee and on HBO...Park had 0 defense and was coming off a loss at home.

Either way Ike looked very sharp...that jab had some snap.

[Flea Man]

I haven't come across them Flea.To be honest i need to put a good few days aside to really sort stuff out.

No probs mush, I get the feeling your like Mr. Trebus but with boxing ;-)

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Emille Griffith vs Doyle Baird

EG- 1, 2, 3, 6
DB- 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10

Close fight but Baird won it...IMO.....cleaner punches, higher workrate.....and the guy was a giant...very strong.....

[McGrain]

Don Curry TKO4 Colin Jones.

It's really exciting to see them come out for the first, and Curry just puts the toe of his boot right on Colin's. Given how excellent these two are as punchers, that's thrilling on its own, and although it's pretty one-sided it doesn't disappoint for excitement.

Jones is out of his depth from the start, and it's a fight that shows how the little things matter. Jones has good discouraging head movement, but his reactive head movement is guff and Curry just snaps his head back with hard jabs, every one of them. Jones's face starts to redden in the first. Jones also has a good jab, really good IMO, but Curry is just taking the sting out of these punches with small moves. He also just crowds Jones when he feels like it, moving all the way in, gloves up, waiting to coutner. It's a horrible strategy when it works and it speaks to Jones's bravery that he doesn't let it stop him throwing. He goes to his own left-hook, but he genuinely is outclassed, Curry actually outworks him to the body.

Part of the problem is Jones's footmovement which has always been less than Astaire-like. At one point Curry actually runs around him and lands a massive right-hand to the body. Jones drops his hands and steps back and tries to shake it off and you can see he is at a loss, like "what just happened?" He just can't move his feet fast enough.

He tries to solve the jabbing problem by staying busy and holding his hands in a high guard but Curry just works around and through it, with great punch variety. At one point he splits the guard with an uppercut, he's stood in the right spot to do it, and what do you do if you are Jones? Curry is already standing where you want him and if you run you lose, but if he stays he gets beaten up. Horrible situation really.

Curry is as fluid as i've seen him when he punches but oddly disjointed in the way he marries his coutners and leads. Sometimes he's just moving forwards, gloves up, elbows tucked in, waiting for opportunities to counter, he looks like a spoiler for forty seconds then throws a double one-two landing all four blows. Strange, excellent performance from him, brave and perfect tactically.

The cut that stopts Jones is a horrible one. It's across the bridge of the nose, so you think he's ok, but the doctor, who the refere has called to ringside opens it up a bit and you can practically see what Jones is thinking through the gap. Referee waves it off, Birmingham crows spoils what has been an incredible atmposphere by throwing bottles at a champion in his pomp.

[McGrain]

I don't mean for these posts to go on and on they just do :lol:

[GPater11093]

I like reading them McGrain.

I been watching a few fights lately.

Duran vs Suzuki and Lewis Morrison, notably. Nothing really much to say about them though. Except Duran was great against Guts.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Emile Griffith vs Joey Archer II


EG- 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15
JA- 2, 5, 10

[GPater11093]

Thats a good victory for Griffith IMO. Howd you score the first one Vic?

The interesting thing is you have Griffith the career Welterweight, WALKING THROUGH a career Middleweight, interesting stuff, and adds to the victory slightly IMO.

[McGrain]

Lloyd Honeyghan TKO6 RW Smith.

This is a lovely fight, Smith coming on in about 8 hours notice to fight in the main event instead of the undercard when the original opponent is pulled 7 pounds over. He isn't anything like in that kind of level and when Lloyd comes out and tries to feint him all to hell with his head Smith just kind of stands there looking at him:lol: You can see Lloyd maybe thinking "i bet i look a prize wanker."

Smith can't get his offence going for ages, and Lloyd just has his way with him, but he's interested in moving and jabbing so not much is happening except the kid is getting jabbed but in round 5 a fight breaks out. Honeyghan decides to put Smith away and chalks off about 20 punches, all old fashioned short-arm work, very square, neither really uppercuts or hooks just loads of them lots landing and suddenly Smith just springs into him, two cracking punches, one with each hand, both upstairs and Lloyd has to shut it down! Crowd going crazy applauding the kid, he's got a lot of heart and a great jaw.

He does land a couple of punches prior to that, but nothing really serious. The sixth is a great round. Smith lands a prize left hook, a real Frazier special coming out of a crouch and just nails Lloyd who tries to go on the offence big-time once more, but again, the kid is right there with him, good strategy just hitting anything that's infront of him, in this case the body, and again Lloyd has to back up.

In the same round though, he gets his with some real sickners. You can see it coming, Lloyd just stops missing, comes in close where his man can't wing at him, but where he can get these short little uppercust and dunting hooks in. Kid starts to crack at the end of the round, and in the corner his old man pulls him, ostensibly with a busted right hand.

They are all hugs and kisses at the bell and it's just a nice atmosphere.

Boxrec says Smith kicked the shit out of Billy Edwards in his next fight before losing three of four and retiring.

[McGrain]

I like reading them McGrain.
Cheers lad. Just as well really i can't stop :lol:

[GPater11093]

Will read that article tommorow, forgot today like,but I will read it like

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Thats a good victory for Griffith IMO. Howd you score the first one Vic?

The interesting thing is you have Griffith the career Welterweight, WALKING THROUGH a career Middleweight, interesting stuff, and adds to the victory slightly IMO.

I didn´t watch the first fight.....would love to see....

And yes......in that fight against Doyle Baird you can see how small he was in comparison with Baird, a big MW....and still he was doing fine, without suffer significant damage in the close range....

[GPater11093]

Willneed to watch the Baird fight, not seen it. Pretty much got everything on Griffith

[McGrain]

Sot Chitalada TKO5 Charlie Magri

Charlie got pulled between rounds with a cut, but Sot was gonna get him I think. He just looked physically out-matched again. He did very very well in the first two rounds both of which I think he won, landing big punches, but in the second he took some counter-right hands that were bang on the money and he just lost his bounce. Chitalada moved into the next gear in the very next round and picked up three and four with hard hard punching and a decent jab. Cracking fight while it lasted. Shame Magri couldn't cram down a division, with his style any sort of physical advantage in the opponent meant he was going to have this kind of trouble, probably would do better today.

[sweet_scientist]

Emile Griffith vs Joey Archer II


EG- 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15
JA- 2, 5, 10

Man, that's a wide, wide card....

I believe I had Emile by a point....

Sure enough I favour Archer as a fighter, but I don't count myself THAT biased.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Man, that's a wide, wide card....

I believe I had Emile by a point....

Sure enough I favour Archer as a fighter, but I don't count myself THAT biased.

At least 5 of the rounds that I gave Griffith could go the other way S_S....And that would change everything.....
I would add a comment between them saying they are extremely close but I didn´t......in the end of the rounds I was always thinking that Griffith was the agressor, throwing and landing a bit more power shots, attacking more and scoring some body shots giving him a thin edge in many of these rounds.....

[sweet_scientist]

At least 5 of the rounds that I gave Griffith could go the other way S_S....And that would change everything.....
I would add a comment between them saying they are extremely close but I didn´t......in the end of the rounds I was always thinking that Griffith was the agressor, throwing and landing a bit more power shots, attacking more and scoring some body shots giving him a thin edge in many of these rounds.....

Fair enough :good

[McGrain]

Barry McGuigan UD10 Juan LaPorte

IN the first it looked kinda like it wouldn't be Barry's night to me, he looked nervous, coming up short over and again, no left hook in sight and then LaPorte gets his own jab going, but he finds his groove in the second. That high energy bobbing style of his, the movements double up as feints sometimes and I think he unseated Juan long enough to get his punches going and then there was no looking back really. I had him losing out the LaPorte rally in the 5th and the huge right hand he landed in the ninth was enough to win him the round, but when Barry stopped clutching and began to box back you could see LaPorte visibly sag. He knew he wasn't going to get it then. McGuigan showed a good chin there, and good boxnig here generally, though the weaknesses that would cost him - economy and an over-reliance on his "natural" defence - peeped through occasionally too. But a generally good showing.

MCGUIGAN: 2,3,4,6,7,8,10
LAPORTE: 1,5,9

[lufcrazy]

Joe Brown v Bud Smith 3.

What a complete masterclass this was. Brilliant outfighting during the first half of the fight with very good foot movement and very active output fighting almost entirely behind the jab. Defence wasn't perfect but he avoided most of Wallace's shots.

During the second half Joe began to sit down on his punches a bit more and fire off combinations. The foot movement was less but I'm unsure whether that was because of energy levels or because of the utter domination leading to him putting a bigger focus on power. I'd like to believe it was the latter.

Byt the time the fight was stopped Brown was in complete control and this wagainst the man he had just won the title from.

Complete masterclass.

Interesting to have seen him utilise that style against a master pressure fighter some time during 56 and 62. I know he lost to saddler when he was green (he lost shitloads of fights actually before he hit his prime) but during his best years he was completely dominant.

[lufcrazy]

Buchanan vs Ortiz

Even in a fight against a shot laegend I never felt Buchanan was absolutely dominant. don't get me worng it's a very good performance, and less comeptitive than his victory over Laguna, but this is a man about 7 years past his best and i'd have expected Ken to really shine.

Even here he doesn't look as good as say benitez did against cervantes or bones against bud. He controlled the fight and Ortiz basically gave up but he never looked spectacular is what I'm saying.

[lufcrazy]

Burley v Oakland Smith.

Very good performance. Maybe overly economical and with his great defence it must have been very difficult to beat burley unless you had high activity or even better timing than charley himself.

Reminded me a lot of beintez against cervantes, he picks his shots brilliantly and has top class head movement. he is a better ring general than benitez was but that has probably come with experience.

His aggression was almost non existant but when it was there it was clealry effective because of his timing, accuracy and speed.

Seems more mayweather than jones but I understand the comparison due to his reflexes which shine even on footage like that.

It's crazy imagining how he lost them 4 fights in 92. I know Charles was out of this world talented and I know holman was splitting fights with burley all the time, but Marshall loss seems a bit out of place. Any info on that one?

Very solid performance and whilst not spectacular actionwise, his talent and poise is there for all to see. I don't think hiw WW days were his prime days, I think it was during this period as a MW, from say 41-47. So I actually think this is footage of Burley at his prime.

Maybe he'd look better if we saw the fight where he stops holman, but then again there might not be as complete a controlling performance as he put on here.

[McGrain]

Marshall-Burley was razor thin; Burley had a fractured hand going in.

[lufcrazy]

Marshall-Burley was razor thin; Burley had a fractured hand going in.

cheers :good

I had a quick scan for fight reports but couldn't really find anything leadin me to doubt marsahll deserving the victory.

They only fought the once right? I wonder why...

[Lester1583]

Seems more mayweather than jones

Yeah, i've noticed that too.

Kinda like latter days Mayweather vs Baldomir.

Very good performance. Maybe overly economical

I think Smith being a lht heavyweight and Burley not the biggest middleweight played played it's part.

So I actually think this is footage of Burley at his prime.

From what i've heard Burley was slightly past prime in this one.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable on Burley can clarify this one.

[lufcrazy]

Yeah, i've noticed that too.

Kinda like latter days Mayweather vs Baldomir.



I think Smith being a lht heavyweight and Burley not the biggest middleweight played played it's part.



From what i've heard Burley was slightly past prime in this one.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable on Burley can clarify this one.

I've heard some say it's not prime burley, but 41-47 seems to be his best years and he was still fairly young throughout.

Was he better as a WW? hard to say because he didn't fight as many quality opposition as he did at the higher weights.

[lufcrazy]

Just watched a couple of orlando canizales fights: against a young unbeaten bones adams and against a more experienced but not as good billy hardy.

Both fights he controls through his unique way of pressuring from mid range, it's quite strange to see because he stalks forward, throws a couple and steps back, but making the opponent give way to him. It obviously proved very effective though as he was a force at the weight and very highly ranked p4p at one point.

His resume leaves a lot to be desired imo but his performances speak for themselves. Very accurate and really good timing as well. His head movement was also not to be sniffed at.

The bones fight was obviously stopped prematurely but we got a taste of what could have happened with that finish against hardy, so many flush shots landed will do that to a man and bones was starting to get tagged too often and too frequent.

Both good performances but obviously the hardy fight has the finish that we desired.

[GPater11093]

Burley v Oakland Smith.

Very good performance. Maybe overly economical and with his great defence it must have been very difficult to beat burley unless you had high activity or even better timing than charley himself.

Reminded me a lot of beintez against cervantes, he picks his shots brilliantly and has top class head movement. he is a better ring general than benitez was but that has probably come with experience.

:lol::lol:

That the only fight you've seen your comparing it to everything.

Nah I get the comparison,both guys face up and look to draw leads from the opponent whilst maintaining the iniative, a hard thing to do but both guys excelled in it. The feints are so important to a style like that, Burley's 'serpentine' movement is superb for this, however I prefer Benitez aesthetically, and to be fair I think Benitez became much more well rounded at 147 IMO.

His aggression was almost non existant but when it was there it was clealry effective because of his timing, accuracy and speed.

He didnt need to be aggressive.


Seems more mayweather than jones but I understand the comparison due to his reflexes which shine even on footage like that.

Nice comparison but I prefer the Benitez comparison actually.

It's crazy imagining how he lost them 4 fights in 92. I know Charles was out of this world talented and I know holman was splitting fights with burley all the time, but Marshall loss seems a bit out of place. Any info on that one?

Not really, Marshall was a great Middleweight, an All time Great talent and he won a close decision off Burley. I'd say the Charles losses are more out of place.

Very solid performance and whilst not spectacular actionwise, his talent and poise is there for all to see. I don't think hiw WW days were his prime days, I think it was during this period as a MW, from say 41-47. So I actually think this is footage of Burley at his prime.

What makes you say this? Surely not the footae as we have nothing to compare of it.

Maybe he'd look better if we saw the fight where he stops holman, but then again there might not be as complete a controlling performance as he put on here.

Yeh, but Smith was a solid fighter but could be out-boxed, Holman is arguably the greatest pure boxers ever.

Just watched a couple of orlando canizales fights: against a young unbeaten bones adams and against a more experienced but not as good billy hardy.

Both fights he controls through his unique way of pressuring from mid range, it's quite strange to see because he stalks forward, throws a couple and steps back, but making the opponent give way to him. It obviously proved very effective though as he was a force at the weight and very highly ranked p4p at one point.

His resume leaves a lot to be desired imo but his performances speak for themselves. Very accurate and really good timing as well. His head movement was also not to be sniffed at.

The bones fight was obviously stopped prematurely but we got a taste of what could have happened with that finish against hardy, so many flush shots landed will do that to a man and bones was starting to get tagged too often and too frequent.

Both good performances but obviously the hardy fight has the finish that we desired.

What a razor thin close decision.


I watched Johnny Tapia vs Danny Romero today.

Tapia started off superbly, his use of angles and countering was superb. In the early rounds he was moving off on angles brilliantly to set up countering oppertunities. He slightly adjusted and started to lead off more, by slightly shifting to his left and popping that jab, the movement off-setting Romero. It was lovely stuff.

Romero stuck at his job though, it was similar to the recent Donaire-Vasquez fight, with a physically superior fighter being frustrated by solid fundamentals and hard working. Romero began to up his workrate (but not necessarily punch output) by moving laterally and keeping his hands high, then stepping in with crisp shots. It was lovely to watch. Tapia however did look like he was coasting rather than any real tactical struggle with Romero, although Romero was in tactical command throughout the middle rounds.

Tapia regained controll late with his lovely combinations and counters. Man I love wathcing Tapia, especially when he puts in a disciplined performance like this. Such a good boxer, and loved the way he dug that left hook to the body then doubled up with it to the head again. Textbook.

One thing I will point out is Eddie Futch was getting wound up in Tapia's corner, with him and Jesse Reid sharing duties, Futch struggled to get much advise in and seemed to get real annoyed. :lol::lol:

Tapia : 1,2,3,5,8,10,11,12
Romero: 4,6,7,9
Total: 116-112 Tapia (8-4)

[lufcrazy]

:lol::lol:

That the only fight you've seen your comparing it to everything.

Nah I get the comparison,both guys face up and look to draw leads from the opponent whilst maintaining the iniative, a hard thing to do but both guys excelled in it. The feints are so important to a style like that, Burley's 'serpentine' movement is superb for this, however I prefer Benitez aesthetically, and to be fair I think Benitez became much more well rounded at 147 IMO.



He didnt need to be aggressive.



Nice comparison but I prefer the Benitez comparison actually.



Not really, Marshall was a great Middleweight, an All time Great talent and he won a close decision off Burley. I'd say the Charles losses are more out of place.



What makes you say this? Surely not the footae as we have nothing to compare of it.



Yeh, but Smith was a solid fighter but could be out-boxed, Holman is arguably the greatest pure boxers ever.



What a razor thin close decision.


I watched Johnny Tapia vs Danny Romero today.

Tapia started off superbly, his use of angles and countering was superb. In the early rounds he was moving off on angles brilliantly to set up countering oppertunities. He slightly adjusted and started to lead off more, by slightly shifting to his left and popping that jab, the movement off-setting Romero. It was lovely stuff.

Romero stuck at his job though, it was similar to the recent Donaire-Vasquez fight, with a physically superior fighter being frustrated by solid fundamentals and hard working. Romero began to up his workrate (but not necessarily punch output) by moving laterally and keeping his hands high, then stepping in with crisp shots. It was lovely to watch. Tapia however did look like he was coasting rather than any real tactical struggle with Romero, although Romero was in tactical command throughout the middle rounds.

Tapia regained controll late with his lovely combinations and counters. Man I love wathcing Tapia, especially when he puts in a disciplined performance like this. Such a good boxer, and loved the way he dug that left hook to the body then doubled up with it to the head again. Textbook.

One thing I will point out is Eddie Futch was getting wound up in Tapia's corner, with him and Jesse Reid sharing duties, Futch struggled to get much advise in and seemed to get real annoyed. :lol::lol:

Tapia : 1,2,3,5,8,10,11,12
Romero: 4,6,7,9
Total: 116-112 Tapia (8-4)

Yeah it wasn't an overall style comparison, more a stylistic similarity for them exact fights.

I'd agree it's more benitez than floyd as well, i'm just not sure where the near consensus rjj comparisons come from unless it's based on footage not available.

My opinion on his prime years are just based on the flow of his career as a whole.

Yeah i'd just like to see him break from technique and actually finish an opponent off.

I meant the rematch with hardy :good

[GPater11093]

Yeah it wasn't an overall style comparison, more a stylistic similarity for them exact fights.

I'd agree it's more benitez than floyd as well, i'm just not sure where the near consensus rjj comparisons come from unless it's based on footage not available.

My opinion on his prime years are just based on the flow of his career as a whole.

Yeah i'd just like to see him break from technique and actually finish an opponent off.

I meant the rematch with hardy :good

Ah ok got you. The rematch is a *******, Hardy really comes into it in the mid-rounds then gets taken out against the grain of the fight.

Duran vs Lampkin

What a good fight.

Duran starts off well forcing Lampkin back then countering him as Lampkin looks to shoot. As I watched it I thought it would go into a Lampkin scared to shoot and Duran just stalking, but Lampkin makes it much more.

In the second Lampkin just fights with Duran using his faster hands and sharper shots to out-work Duran who looks lackadaisical and is missing and falling short frequently. Lampkin is OUTFIGHTING Duran, its amazing. And I bet you Ray Leonard watched this fight prior to his first fight with Duran, as Lampkin wasnt to dissimilar from Ray.

Duran looks to have regained control in the 5th and 6th as Lampkins workrate drops and Duran is able to pick him off with some sharp punches. All of Durans sucess comes when Lampkins workrate drops and Duran is able to step in with shots. Lampkin fights his way back in to regain controll. However throughout this portion of the fight Duran is doing more damage and Lampkin is working way harder, so Lampkin is winning the rounds, but at what cost?

Duran starts to hurt lampkin in the 10th and 11th and it looks like Lampkin may have burnt himself out but he puts in such a spirited effort to take the 12th and 13th and he just works and works, and after each round you see how much it has taken out of him but he still keeps going.

Going into the 14th it is clear to see Lampkin has considerably dropped off from the mid-rounds but Duran does not look like having the snap or drive to do anything about it, and the KO comes completely out of the blue. And Duran needed it, I had him needing a KO to win the fight.

It was a bad day at the office for Duran though, he just had no 'oomph' about him and was missing constantly. His worst Lightweight performance IMO, and he did great to deal with such a worthy challenger, a solid but unspectacular fighter, in Ray Lampkin.

Duran : 1,5,6,9,11
Lampkin: 2,3,4,7,8,10,12,13
Total: 125-122 Lampkin (8-5)

[WhataRock]

Ah ok got you. The rematch is a *******, Hardy really comes into it in the mid-rounds then gets taken out against the grain of the fight.

Duran vs Lampkin

What a good fight.

Duran starts off well forcing Lampkin back then countering him as Lampkin looks to shoot. As I watched it I thought it would go into a Lampkin scared to shoot and Duran just stalking, but Lampkin makes it much more.

In the second Lampkin just fights with Duran using his faster hands and sharper shots to out-work Duran who looks lackadaisical and is missing and falling short frequently. Lampkin is OUTFIGHTING Duran, its amazing. And I bet you Ray Leonard watched this fight prior to his first fight with Duran, as Lampkin wasnt to dissimilar from Ray.

Duran looks to have regained control in the 5th and 6th as Lampkins workrate drops and Duran is able to pick him off with some sharp punches. All of Durans sucess comes when Lampkins workrate drops and Duran is able to step in with shots. Lampkin fights his way back in to regain controll. However throughout this portion of the fight Duran is doing more damage and Lampkin is working way harder, so Lampkin is winning the rounds, but at what cost?

Duran starts to hurt lampkin in the 10th and 11th and it looks like Lampkin may have burnt himself out but he puts in such a spirited effort to take the 12th and 13th and he just works and works, and after each round you see how much it has taken out of him but he still keeps going.

Going into the 14th it is clear to see Lampkin has considerably dropped off from the mid-rounds but Duran does not look like having the snap or drive to do anything about it, and the KO comes completely out of the blue. And Duran needed it, I had him needing a KO to win the fight.

It was a bad day at the office for Duran though, he just had no 'oomph' about him and was missing constantly. His worst Lightweight performance IMO, and he did great to deal with such a worthy challenger, a solid but unspectacular fighter, in Ray Lampkin.

Duran : 1,5,6,9,11
Lampkin: 2,3,4,7,8,10,12,13
Total: 125-122 Lampkin (8-5)

Yeah I remember having it square around the 10th or something like that..though I'm pretty sure I had Duran ahead by a round or two at the time of the stoppage...I do remember thinking there was sweet fuck all in it and Lampkin had put on a very respectable performance.

Roberto did look pretty poor compared to the superhuman performance he put on against DeJesus a year before..but I reckon he still had some polishing to do.

Lampkin was a very, very good fighter if you ask me...good skills, physical ability and fighting spirit.

[GPater11093]

Yeah I remember having it square around the 10th or something like that..though I'm pretty sure I had Duran ahead by a round or two at the time of the stoppage...I do remember thinking there was sweet fuck all in it and Lampkin had put on a very respectable performance.

Roberto did look pretty poor compared to the superhuman performance he put on against DeJesus a year before..but I reckon he still had some polishing to do.

Lampkin was a very, very good fighter if you ask me...good skills, physical ability and fighting spirit.

I could see how you could have Duran in front he was landing the better blows, but Lampkin wasoutlanding him by a long way IMO. Any other Lampkin fights out there?

[GPater11093]

Winky Wright vs Fernando Vargas.

A really good action fight, but I like it because one fighter does the unexpected so well.

The first round is a feeling out round and Vargas is allowed to get off first and takes it, but there is nothing in it IMO. In the second Wright starts to impose himself on Vargas and gets off first and rattles in the combinations, he pushes back Vargas, hurts him and stops any offence coming back from Vargas.

Everyone is thinking Wright is mad, but it is his best way of winning, when he gives Vargas room, Vargas is able to get off and get his shots in. Wright manages to keep the pressure on and work hard.

This is the crux of the whole fight really, the only rounds Vargas win is with super human efforts in the fourth, tenth and twelfth where he just works like mad, but then in the next round he is knackered. In fact Wright only wins one round with 'boxing', lateral movement and jabs etc... and that was the eleventh with Vargas so tired from his tenth round rally.

Really nice fight but a bad decision IMO

Vargas: 1,4,10,12
Wright: 2,3,5,6,7,8,9,11
Total: 116-112 Wright (8-4)

[lora]

IF it wasn't for the third Dejesus fight, Ortiz and the emiliano Villa non-title bout, the 2nd half of Duran's reign would be full of tepid coasting and general sluggishness.Not helped by the fact he fought half-arsed runners and spoilers like Bizzaro, Fernandez and Viruet, but still.

[GPater11093]

Aye but he did beat some alright guys, despite his sluggishness.

[lufcrazy]

Canto v Avelar.

Best footage of canto I could find on youtube but it's towards the end of his title run so I'm not sure how "prime" he is here.

Maybe it's just the quality of fights I've been watching lately but canto really failed to impress me here.

Yeah just left feeling underwhelmed byu the fight, anyone else get this with canto? Put a fight on expecting greatness and left feeling meh?

Edit: Obviously i'm nto questioning the guys status because he has a great resume (maybe the best at the weight?) which is potentially why I was a bit disappointed; it was a good scrap, don't get me wrong, he just didn't look great to me or least not as great as toher's I've been watching lately.

[WhataRock]

I guess that was his thang though...defensive specialists tend to underwhelm.

[sweet_scientist]

There's not much footage of Canto that captures his best imo.

About as good as it gets is the second Betulio Gonzalez fight. You can pretty much throw all the other footage out imo.

[lufcrazy]

There's not much footage of Canto that captures his best imo.

About as good as it gets is the second Betulio Gonzalez fight. You can pretty much throw all the other footage out imo.

that was my impression, he doesn't look great on any fights I could find.

I wonder what his best actually was and whther there's any rare footage of it out there.

[lora]

More likely he's just not doing it for you.It's not like he's washed up in a lot of the footage.

things can change from a first impression though.It's usually the fighters with the dominant basic tools(ie devasting right hand\left hook etc) or more explosive highly charged styles that impress quicker.The ones with a more subtle or less flashy approach might take a while longer.

Which isn't to imply you aren't "getting it", as i said he might just not be for you.Everybody has some fighters generally recognised as great that they don't see what the fuss is about.just ask McGrain bout Burley.

[lufcrazy]

could well be the case :good

[lufcrazy]

Carbajal vs Gonzalez 1

1: 10-9
2: 8-10
3: 10-9
4: 10-9
5: 8-10
6: 10-9
7: Gonzalez ktfo
8:
9:
10:
11:
12:

56-56 at time of the stoppage.

The close scores don't really tell the story for me though because Carbajal dominated in a competitive fashion. The first knockdown is a product of him having no answer for chiquita's straight shots (the hooks and uppercuts practically failed to land at all) but when gonzalez was focusing on his straight shots, carbajal was able to meet him punch for punch and he was much stronger and much more accurate than gonzalez that night. so whilst a handful of shots did get through, the tide of the fight was clearly turning. After the 2nd knockdown Carbajal practically landed at will and really battered Gonzalez around, the 5th could even be scored a 10-9 because of how dominant carbajal was after being knocked down.

The finish was brutal as well, you could see the flush hooks consistently landing all night long and it seemed like amybe he'd just tire him against the ropes and tee off, but even pulled out a 1 shot ko to finish matters in the most dominant fashion possible: rendering a man incapacitated for 10 seconds.

Very impressed here. It was quite a dominant performance aside from the two kd's but even they showed his relience and will to continue (despite showing a weakness for the straight shots down the pipe imo).

[GPater11093]

Canto v Avelar.

Best footage of canto I could find on youtube but it's towards the end of his title run so I'm not sure how "prime" he is here.

Maybe it's just the quality of fights I've been watching lately but canto really failed to impress me here.

Yeah just left feeling underwhelmed byu the fight, anyone else get this with canto? Put a fight on expecting greatness and left feeling meh?

Edit: Obviously i'm nto questioning the guys status because he has a great resume (maybe the best at the weight?) which is potentially why I was a bit disappointed; it was a good scrap, don't get me wrong, he just didn't look great to me or least not as great as toher's I've been watching lately.

Think he's pretty good in this one. One of his better performanceson film, he really brings it to Avelar at times and shows a more aggressive side ot himself withlovely defence in the pocket. He actually goes to war here :lol::lol:

The Gonzalez fights are a good showing as is the Martin Vargas rematch IMO

[lufcrazy]

Think he's pretty good in this one. One of his better performanceson film, he really brings it to Avelar at times and shows a more aggressive side ot himself withlovely defence in the pocket. He actually goes to war here :lol::lol:

The Gonzalez fights are a good showing as is the Martin Vargas rematch IMO

Yeah it's a good fight, he just doesn't look amazing in it Imo

[McGrain]

just ask McGrain bout Burley.
:verysad

[Flea Man]

I think when you consider he's in with arguably the hardest Flyweight puncher in history, Canto is very impressive against Avelar.

[Kalasinn]

Vitali-Chisora


VK 117-111

[McGrain]

Barry McGuigan UD15 Eusebio Pedroza.

McGuigan gets a bit of stick now and again, but this is a great performance. I know Pedroza was considered past his best, but his worst performances were firmly in his future after all, and the thing works both ways - at 24 and I think having never done 15 rounds before, McGuigan had it all to do.

Fascinating fight early, I had it even after six rounds before the KD in the seventh, which was pretty brutal. Interesting that McGuigan does some of his best work here with his right hand as opposed to his left-hook which is important, because Pedroza's craft in taking away McGuigan's left upstairs wasn't enough, McGuigan had the dimension to hurt him with another punch.

I also thought he jabbed well, and should have jabbed more. Pedroza boxed his way right back into the fight in the 8th, and won it on my card, he landed a lot of great punches, but when McGuigan started to jab at him, Pedroza started to fall apart again. When Barry forgot it again in the 11th and 12th, there was a real danger that his opponent was going to make an unlikely and thrilling tilt at boxing back, and I had only a point in it (the KD) going into the championship rounds.

Again, McGuigan is to be lauded for so firmly taking control of these having so little experience of them, and he swept 13,14 and 15 pretty clearly. It is true Pedroza's legs had gone, but then McGuigan had hit him hard in the 8yh, 10th and 13th. That'll do it.

Great showing by both men, cracking fight.

MCGUIGAN: 2,3,6,7,9,10,13,14,15
PEDROZA: 1,4,5,8,11,12

[WhataRock]

I've been watching a bit of McGuigan on your Channel McGdawg...He really was quite a handy fighter.

I think really the main thing that people give Baz shite about is the HOF controversy..from me personally it's just sour grapes because Lionel Rose isn't in there..there will likely be worse fighters get the accolade in the future.

[McGrain]

Yeah, the hall of fame being what it is, he definitely has a right to be in there. He's really pretty good. He's also the type of fighter that would give anyone a fight, formidable.

[GPater11093]

Don Curry vs Marlon Starling I

Really good fight this, with two excellent technical fighters.

In my eyes Starling really just didnt work enough and allowed Curry to nick rounds at range with a nice jaband some sharp counters.

Starling did do all his best work inside with short sharp combinations, but never really worked hard enough IMO, as he had plenty of oppertunities to let his hands go. In the later rounds he afew times used his jab to get into range lovely but failed to follow up on it or do it enough.

Curry on the other hand fought a really good fight, but did tend to linger inside for too long, which could have cost him the fight if Starling was busier.

I could see it being a lot closer with the 7th and 9th beingpretty level, I just preferred Currys more consistent long-range stuff

Curry : 2,3,4,6,7,9,10,11,12
Starling:1,5,8
Total: 117-111 Curry (9-3)

[natonic]

Don Curry vs Marlon Starling I

Really good fight this, with two excellent technical fighters.

In my eyes Starling really just didnt work enough and allowed Curry to nick rounds at range with a nice jaband some sharp counters.

Starling did do all his best work inside with short sharp combinations, but never really worked hard enough IMO, as he had plenty of oppertunities to let his hands go. In the later rounds he afew times used his jab to get into range lovely but failed to follow up on it or do it enough.

Curry on the other hand fought a really good fight, but did tend to linger inside for too long, which could have cost him the fight if Starling was busier.

I could see it being a lot closer with the 7th and 9th beingpretty level, I just preferred Currys more consistent long-range stuff

Curry : 2,3,4,6,7,9,10,11,12
Starling:1,5,8
Total: 117-111 Curry (9-3)

I just watched this fight last week. It felt a little closer for me than 9-3, but not much. I was surprised at the announce team (Ryan, Clancy, Ray Leonard) seemed to have Starling slightly ahead late into the fight.
Spot on about Curry lingering on the inside too much. This tactic would cost him later in his career as his reflexes dulled a bit.

[natonic]

Yeah, the hall of fame being what it is, he definitely has a right to be in there. He's really pretty good. He's also the type of fighter that would give anyone a fight, formidable.

I loved Mcguigan then and my eyes don't deceive me when watching him now. The guy could fight. The pressure he could bring, intelligent pressure with that busy jab and head movement, was exceeded by few (Duran, Chavez, Fenech?). The more I watch him, the more I am persuaded to hold him in the same regard as Donald Curry. A terrific fighter who burned bright but burned out quickly. No, he wasn't as skilled as Curry but he certainly had a bit more starch. And the Pedroza he beat, while not peak, wasn't as far gone as some presume in my opinion.

[GPater11093]

I just watched this fight last week. It felt a little closer for me than 9-3, but not much. I was surprised at the announce team (Ryan, Clancy, Ray Leonard) seemed to have Starling slightly ahead late into the fight.
Spot on about Curry lingering on the inside too much. This tactic would cost him later in his career as his reflexes dulled a bit.

I wasnt happy with my score, felt the fight was closer than that,but everyone round was competitive. And yes I was surprised they had Starling ahead late, but they were great commentating throughout, Clancy and Leonard made loads of interesting points.

Curry lingering would have cost him in this fight if Moochie would have let his hands go IMO. Thing is Curry was fairly effective inside with a solid defenceand picked nice shots, but he just tended towait in there alot too.


Gilberto Roman vs Jiro Watanabe

A really nice tactical fight this one. Again my scorecard is wider than the fight was competitive.

Roman fought an excellant fight in this one, dealing with the more classicly skilled Watanabe brilliantly. It was a matter of range that won it for him IMO.

At long range Roman pressed, keeping the pressure on Watanabe, but without throwing and opening himself up for counters, and wasting energy. He forced Watanabe to go at a higher pace, and if Jiro did wait too long Roman would dart in with quick punches. Of course Jiro did have success at this range.

At mid-range this was where Roman was most effective, he would use multi-phase attacks and come in from long range to deliver them. Jiro just couldnt get set when Roman was darting about mid-range.

In close, Jiro was pretty much ineffective and Roman did a brilliant job of staying busy inside and ripping the body. He's just a master of all ranges.

Roman started excellently IMO, but Watanabe came back in the 8th as he started to lead with his right jab and come in behind it with combo's and looked to start to figure out Roman a wee bit, ashe continued his success through to the 9th but Roman began to up his workrate and set a frantic pace to close the show.

Roman : 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,10,11,12
Watanabe: 8,9
Total: 118-110 Roman (10-2)

[lora]

I think when you consider he's in with arguably the hardest Flyweight puncher in history, Canto is very impressive against Avelar.

True. Avalar was really not a man you wanted to stay in range and swap punches with.Tae-Shik Kim, Oguma, Wilfredo Vasquez and others all paid the price for not giving him enough respect.

[lora]

Watanabe was done by the Roman fight imo, though being able to half-arse it against some of his worst challengers in the previous couple of fights delayed the inevitable.Sharpness eroded due to his lifestyle and didn't seem interested when he quickly realised Roman was formidable.Just went through the motions and lethargically surrendered his belt.

I think McGuigan during his brief peak would probably beat Morales incidentally.He'd slip inside those long punches and take advantage of how open Morales is all fight long.Beats Hamed too more often than not.

[McGrain]

Terry Marsh Who Definitely Didn't Shoot Frank Wrren And Was Aquitted Of Any Crime And Is Innocent TKO6 Alessandro Scapecchi

Nice performance for Marsh, I gave Scapecchi the first round on a very hard right hand, but arguably this is a whitewash for Marsh, whose left hand is on really tremendous form here. A bit of a cut made it exciting though, and it was also exciting when Wrren got into the ring afterwards, but nothing happened.

[McGrain]

I loved Mcguigan then and my eyes don't deceive me when watching him now. The guy could fight. The pressure he could bring, intelligent pressure with that busy jab and head movement, was exceeded by few (Duran, Chavez, Fenech?). The more I watch him, the more I am persuaded to hold him in the same regard as Donald Curry. A terrific fighter who burned bright but burned out quickly. No, he wasn't as skilled as Curry but he certainly had a bit more starch. And the Pedroza he beat, while not peak, wasn't as far gone as some presume in my opinion.

Yeah, I'll have that.


I think McGuigan during his brief peak would probably beat Morales incidentally.He'd slip inside those long punches and take advantage of how open Morales is all fight long.Beats Hamed too more often than not.

Bold!

[GPater11093]

Terry Marsh also shot Tim Westwood

[McGrain]

Also?

[GPater11093]

Dont know what I was thinkign with'also', its not like he fought a famous promotor or anything

[McGrain]

Eamonn Loughran TKO3 Donovan Boucher.

Total madness this one, Loughran hits and hurts the Commonwealth champion in the first, but it seems as though Boucher, who wasn't a million miles away from top class, was boxing back when Loughran stung him to the seat of his pants with a picture perfect left hook thrown just behind a tidy one-two. Boucher looked out on his feet once he gathered himself from his draped position upon the ropes, and Loughran duly sent him headfirst below the bottom rope and all but onto the floor before the referee stepped in to stop things. Boucher was done, and Loughran got the (WBO) title shot the Canadian had never been able to muster...still, cracking little miniature.

[lufcrazy]

No doubting his victory over avelar was top class nor am I doubting his deep resume.

I'm just saying that, on film, he doesn't look as good as others i've been watching lately and out of the modern hof fighter's he's arguably the least impressive on film out of those i've seen.

[GPater11093]

I disagree completly, Canto is very very good on film.

Chucho Castillo vs Ernie Cruz

Lovely performance this by Castillo, who is fast becoming one of my favrouites to watch.

Cruz starts very well with lunging, but fast, attacks punctuated with his looping right hand. He looks an awkward creature to deal with.

In the second Castillo starts to jab with authority and really puts it on Cruz with lovely left hooks and uppecuts to head and body. And when Castillo gets inside he bobs and weaves wonderfully to make Cruz miss. One of the best rounds, in terms of left hand work, I have seen.

The third and fourth are similar, but less impressive and Castillo ups it in the fifth to get him out.

Chucho Castillo vs Jerry Stokes

Not much to say about this but a lovely right hand finish. Proper nasty KO.

[Flea Man]

Ain't seen neither of those :-( will look into it now, fucking brilliant fighter.

[lufcrazy]

I disagree completly, Canto is very very good on film.

Chucho Castillo vs Ernie Cruz

Lovely performance this by Castillo, who is fast becoming one of my favrouites to watch.

Cruz starts very well with lunging, but fast, attacks punctuated with his looping right hand. He looks an awkward creature to deal with.

In the second Castillo starts to jab with authority and really puts it on Cruz with lovely left hooks and uppecuts to head and body. And when Castillo gets inside he bobs and weaves wonderfully to make Cruz miss. One of the best rounds, in terms of left hand work, I have seen.

The third and fourth are similar, but less impressive and Castillo ups it in the fifth to get him out.

Chucho Castillo vs Jerry Stokes

Not much to say about this but a lovely right hand finish. Proper nasty KO.

Relativity my friend. I'm saying he doesn't look as good as those i've been watching recently. To be fair, that's guys like ali, armstrong, arguello, burley, benitez so it's no great shame.

[McGrain]

Canto is fabulous on film, he's a little beast, I put him right up there but different folk for different folks.

[Flea Man]

I'd say he deffo' looks better than Nino.

[lora]

Nino Benvenuti?

[natonic]

wrong thread

[lufcrazy]

I put him one tier below benvenuti and basilio in terms of how they look on film.

[Flea Man]

Yes Lora.

[GPater11093]

I put him one tier below benvenuti and basilio in terms of how they look on film.

No way, Id have him above them and clearly.

[lufcrazy]

No way, Id have him above them and clearly.

Basilio stopping de marco. Benvenuti stopping lmr.

In those fights these two looked better then canto did against avelar imo.

When i'm back home i'll watch the gonzalez fights and see if I can see what you guys are seeing.

Then after that it's carter vs aroujo which i'm looking forward to :good

[GPater11093]

Benvenuti isn't that impressive at all IMO, but he is effective. I thought earlier you were saying you wasnt too impressed?

Canto is much more multi-faceted than Benvenuti, I'd say in every area but power and strength Canto has the edge. And clearly in some areas.

I'd say Basilio is just slightly under Canto as he was fairly multi-faceted and his style was beastly.

[lora]

Benvenuti gets underrated because he was as stiff as a pedo in a nursery.

[GPater11093]

Aye he does, he takes a while to get used to. But he is effective.

[lufcrazy]

Benvenuti isn't that impressive at all IMO, but he is effective. I thought earlier you were saying you wasnt too impressed?

Canto is much more multi-faceted than Benvenuti, I'd say in every area but power and strength Canto has the edge. And clearly in some areas.

I'd say Basilio is just slightly under Canto as he was fairly multi-faceted and his style was beastly.

Again relativity. Benvenuti and basilio were the least impressive i'd seen on film at the time i'd seen them. Benvenuti was slightly less impressive than basilio but they were same tier I thought.

After watching canto I decided he was even less impressive.

I'm not sure what it is about canto I didn't like. As I say i'll watch him v gonzalez and maybe i'll reach the conclusion he's better than these two.

[GPater11093]

Again relativity. Benvenuti and basilio were the least impressive i'd seen on film at the time i'd seen them. Benvenuti was slightly less impressive than basilio but they were same tier I thought.

After watching canto I decided he was even less impressive.

I'm not sure what it is about canto I didn't like. As I say i'll watch him v gonzalez and maybe i'll reach the conclusion he's better than these two.

In what ways is he less impressive? as I say in every area, Canto is better than Benvenuti.

[lufcrazy]

In what ways is he less impressive? as I say in every area, Canto is better than Benvenuti.

I'm not sure what it was :-( I'm about to watch his rematch with gonzalez so maybe I'll rethink my opinion of him then :good

[GPater11093]

I'm not sure what it was :-( I'm about to watch his rematch with gonzalez so maybe I'll rethink my opinion of him then :good

OK sound.

[lora]

In what ways is he less impressive? as I say in every area, Canto is better than Benvenuti.

Not for everybody obviously

i could see someone favouring Nino, depending on what they look for in a fighter.Canto has a very specific stylistic approach after all, even though he's a complete fighter technically.

[lufcrazy]

I'm not sure what it was :-( I'm about to watch his rematch with gonzalez so maybe I'll rethink my opinion of him then :good

Greg, I think the reason I wasn't as impressed was because of something you elluded to, at times he went to war and traded shots. When Carbajal did that in the first against Humberto, he blocked most of what was coming back at him and I didn't see it so much as a trade off as a beating (although when humberto did get through he hurt carbajal and dropped him twice). With the canto-alvarez fight there was too much exchanging of shots for my liking I think, maybe I was watchin it wrong and missing out on subtle nuances though.

I've just watched the first round of canto vs gonzalez now, much much more impressed, a guy that small to even outjab an opponent is impressive enough but his accuracy and movement is really good. clearly takes the first round imo. I'm gonna put my score up when it finishes but if the rest of the rounds continue like this I'll be rethinking my grading od his performance anyways :good

[GPater11093]

Id say its pretty objective that Canto is better in pretty much all areas than Nino

didnt think canto got hit that much vs avelar

[Moochie]

Watch Canto vs Furesawa. Probably the best performance I've seen of him.

[lufcrazy]

Canto vs Gonzalez

1: 10-9
2: 10-9
3: 10-9
4: 10-9
5: 9-10
6: 10-9
7: 10-9
8: 10-9
9: 9-10
10: 10-9
11: 10-9
12: 10-9
13: 9-10
14: 10-9
15: 10-9

147 - 138

I'm not really sure how this was a split decision? maybe the last 2 rounds could of gone gonzalez's way (I preferred canto's clean shots on the inside as opposed to gonzalez's strong man tactics) but no way did betulio rack up 8 rounds in that fight, no way at all.

Yeah the avealr performance didn't do it for me, but here he did look fantastic. Such a great left hand in that fight, sometimes he'd throw 4 left hands in a row without reply. His movement on the outside was top class and on the inside he was strong enough to hold his ground and mixed up body and head shots brilliantly. Occassionaly the bigger man was able to trap him one time too often and take the rond but by and large this was a schooling.

I take back what I said on him (well I didn't like him againsta velar but I can see why he's highly regarded as a filmed fighter now).

It isn't up there with the ali-terrell performance but it's just below benitez-cervantes for me. so it makes the third tier which is a lot better than I previously had him.

Quite impressed, maybe too impressed because I wonder if I over compensated on the scoring considering it was a split decision :think:

[lora]

Was that the 2nd or 3rd fight against Gonzalez, Luf?.

I think both were split, if i remember correctly.Gonzalez was a very good fighter, but also one of the most well backed Flyweights of the whole decade.Got more chances than just about anyone.

[lufcrazy]

Was that the 2nd or 3rd fight against Gonzalez, Luf?.

I think both were split, if i remember correctly.Gonzalez was a very good fighter, but also one of the most well backed Flyweights of the whole decade.Got more chances than just about anyone.

The 2nd I believe. 75 unless i've got the date completely wrong.

He showed good resolve in the fight by never giving up, he just couldn't get an did on canto imo, he was outjabbed, he was outmanouvered and on the inside he was mostly outpunched. He was able to overwhelm canto occasionally with his strength and catch him with shots as he backpedalled but the success was few and far between.

[sweet_scientist]

Canto vs Gonzalez

1: 10-9
2: 10-9
3: 10-9
4: 10-9
5: 9-10
6: 10-9
7: 10-9
8: 10-9
9: 9-10
10: 10-9
11: 10-9
12: 10-9
13: 9-10
14: 10-9
15: 10-9

147 - 138

I'm not really sure how this was a split decision? maybe the last 2 rounds could of gone gonzalez's way (I preferred canto's clean shots on the inside as opposed to gonzalez's strong man tactics) but no way did betulio rack up 8 rounds in that fight, no way at all.

Yeah the avealr performance didn't do it for me, but here he did look fantastic. Such a great left hand in that fight, sometimes he'd throw 4 left hands in a row without reply. His movement on the outside was top class and on the inside he was strong enough to hold his ground and mixed up body and head shots brilliantly. Occassionaly the bigger man was able to trap him one time too often and take the rond but by and large this was a schooling.

I take back what I said on him (well I didn't like him againsta velar but I can see why he's highly regarded as a filmed fighter now).

It isn't up there with the ali-terrell performance but it's just below benitez-cervantes for me. so it makes the third tier which is a lot better than I previously had him.

Quite impressed, maybe too impressed because I wonder if I over compensated on the scoring considering it was a split decision :think:

That's a decent scorecard. Pay no attention to the 'split' decision.

Just on the Nino-Canto thing, for me, Nino is clearly the superior offensive force.

As an aside I watched Watanabe fight Chul-Ho Kim recently, a decent fight in which an early Watanabe gets blatantly robbed. Kim pressed the action and was game to the end, but Watanabe was nailing him with beautiful clean shots all night and kept his bounce going for all 15 rounds.

Such a pity Watanabe petered out to nothing more than a lazy technician so soon. The guy had great skills backed with a great chin and a lot of stamina.

[Goyourownway]

Marvin Johnson vs Jean Marie Emebe


One of the forgotten classics of the 1980's.Undoubtedly more brutal,vicious and sustained than Hagler-Mugabi,McGuigan-Cruz and Holyfield-Qawi,though it's never received the plaudits as the fights mentioned have.


Johnson was clearly past it at this point and his legs were gone; he was fighting on sheer will alone in those last couple of fights in his career,taking an extraordinary amount of punishment in the process.


Emebe controlled the action through the first seven,standing toe-to-toe and trading some nasty looking exchanges with Johnson(very few of them ever missing) before Johnson really started to make headway from round eight onwards.



Just a shame it was ruined by a terrible stoppage.

[lora]

One of the great often forgotten 80's fights that one.Johnson was a god.

[salsanchezfan]

Marvin Johnson vs Jean Marie Emebe


One of the forgotten classics of the 1980's.Undoubtedly more brutal,vicious and sustained than Hagler-Mugabi,McGuigan-Cruz and Holyfield-Qawi,though it's never received the plaudits as the fights mentioned have.


Johnson was clearly past it at this point and his legs were gone; he was fighting on sheer will alone in those last couple of fights in his career,taking an extraordinary amount of punishment in the process.


Emebe controlled the action through the first seven,standing toe-to-toe and trading some nasty looking exchanges with Johnson(very few of them ever missing) before Johnson really started to make headway from round eight onwards.



Just a shame it was ruined by a terrible stoppage.



I have wanted to see this for some time. Is it on youtube?

I also loved the first Johnson-Leslie Stewart tussle. The first round of that was amazing.

[natonic]

I have wanted to see this for some time. Is it on youtube?

I also loved the first Johnson-Leslie Stewart tussle. The first round of that was amazing.

I put this fight up on one of the archives sites a few months back because I hadn't see it around anywhere. I'd be happy to get you a copy. Let me know.

[tommygun711]

One of Benitez's best performances must be against Maurice Hope, (a very strong and durable southpaw). After a few early rounds, Benitez was able to outwork Hope off of the ropes with strong counters. At times he was even able to load up on shots and simply wail away at Hope. Benitez's body work was very good also. In the 12th round Benitez backed up hope to the ropes and loaded up with an overhand right, and completely knocked him out for the count. Beautiful knockout.
I scored almost every single round for Benitez, except the 9th round and the first few rounds.

Benitez:3,4,6,7,8,10,11,12
Hope:1,2,5,9

[Goyourownway]

I downloaded the fight off of WBVA(thanks to the uploader,by the way).


Took a couple of days but the wait was worth it.Johnson was one of the great value-for-money fighters of the 70's and 80's,though not one of his fights were ever listed as fight of the year by Ring magazine,who felt the Foreman-Young fight was a more compelling one than the first Saad-Johnson fight.


The rematch against Stewart was an exciting one,too,in the sense that a man can survive an opening round in which he's down(twice,I think) and on the verge of being knocked out,then spending the rest of the fight relentlessly pursuing his opponent,in spite of sickening beating he's taking,until the very end.

[salsanchezfan]

I put this fight up on one of the archives sites a few months back because I hadn't see it around anywhere. I'd be happy to get you a copy. Let me know.

thanks man, that'd be great! I'll pm you about it...:good

[lufcrazy]

Carter v Araujo.

Hard to describe what I make of this one.

I've just watched it twice to be sure.

At first glance it basically looks like Araujo schools carter early doors then late on carter catches Araujo and never lets up.

Then I watched it again and it's interesting when you consider the size difference (unsure of the actual heights here, I'm going off a visual comparison on the fight) All night Araujo was bouncing around on his feet landing hard combos and getting out of range, whilst this exchange would go on, Carter would stalk forward, maybe throw a jab and try to block shots. Is it feasible that he had faith in his power, saw the energy Araujo was burning and decided to put it all on wearing him down?

Kinda reminds me a lot of Louis v Conn. One argument is it's a patient fight caculating when the best time to strike was, another argument is the guy was being schooled, the opponent got careless and he landed his hail mary shot.

I'd like to believe it's the first option. Carter gave away the early rounds to go for a late onslaught. I could be way off here but even when he's being beaten up, he still looks caluclating and never really strays from the stalk and jab in the first 11 rounds.

He still doesn't look great on film because he still got schooled early doors, but it's a consideration worth thinking about when pitting him H2H, the opponent would have to be screwed on all night if the LW version showed up (he seemed to be really shit up at WW but great at LW).

As a side note, is Araujo one of the best contenders never to win a (or be an uncrowned) world championsip?

Great fight anyways.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Tim Austin vs Adan Vargas

Austin- 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9

Vargas- 1, 4, 8

Good stoppage in the round 10....

[lufcrazy]

Cerdan vs Zale.

Marcel was clearly winning this fight with effective pressure. didn't let his hands go that much though and he was easy to hit.

The finish was brutal, zale looked out cold despite up against the ropes and it's a good job the ref was so close or we could have had a similar situation to mercer v morrison.

Decent fighter and I could imagine him giving many a man a hard night (wins over williams, abrams and zale have to be testament to this) but aside from carter's come from behind ko (in a fight he was clearly losing imo) this is probably the least great I've seen a fighter look recently whilst winning the fight.

Still, compared to a huge percentage of boxer's he looks world class. But compared to the other HOF guys, not so much.

[Lester1583]

Decent fighter and I could imagine him giving many a man a hard night (wins over williams, abrams and zale have to be testament to this)

As far as i know Holman was on the decline.

Both fighters were injured in this fight.

[lufcrazy]

As far as i know Holman was on the decline.

Both fighters were injured in this fight.

Yeah he injured his hand in the 4th or something like that.

[McGrain]

Tavoris Cloud SD Gabriel Campillo

Great fight, Campillo shows great skills, I especially loved the straight left/right uppercut combo he delivered three times in the early rounds and I loved that when he gained in confidence he came inside and start fighting two-handed up close stepping off onto that horrible little angle to leave Cloud floundering.

He boxed beautifully in round 8 which is when he pulled level on the cards for me after that disastrous first round when he got dropped twice. Be worthwhile looking to see what adjustments he made to slip that right hand from the second onwards? Cloud did help him though, inexplicably going backwards in round two for no apparent reason, I watched it a second time just to make sure he didn't get hurt and I can't find a solitary reason for it, why?

I do think, on first viewing though, that it was not a robbery...I have it a draw.

CLOUD:1,4,6,11,12
CAMPILLO: 2,3,5,7,8,9,10

113-113

The rounds I was a little uncomfortable with were 4,5 and 11, two of which are Cloud rounds, so I'd be happier with a Campillo card based upon these swings, but I could see a Cloud card if he had round 5 scored to him.

Good, absorbing contest and I hope they do it again.

[McGrain]

Vitali Klitschko UD12 Derek Chisora

Interesting wee fight, Chisora did very well, I wish he had jabbed jabbed jabbed more to the body, the body shots were troubling him and a few more points could have generated a very very interesting close.

VITALI: 1,2,3,5,7,9,11
CHISORA:4,6,8,12

8-4 VITALI.

[Flea Man]

Vitali: 1; 2; 3;
Chisora: 4;

Then I got bored.

[Moochie]

:lol:It happens.

[lufcrazy]

Cervantes vs Ortiz.

Good little fight this. At first ceravantes seemed to be wild and aggressive but he started covering up and countering which led to him landing some beautiful shots on ortiz.

Very good handspeed and obvious power in each hand. His patience was very good in the second as well, not sure if he was playing possum against the ropes when ortiz began to rush him but either way he landed a sweet left hook that brought an end to proceedings.

You'd need a good chin and great workrate to beat him on the inside in my opinion. I think he'd knock out hatton.

Would have been interesting seeing him against pryor when he was a bit younger, I'd still pick Pryor to overwhelm him but it might be a bit more of a competitive matchup.

Anyways, crushing display by cervantes.

[Lester1583]

Anyways, crushing display by cervantes.

Have you seen Cervantes-Dejesus, Luf?

Very impressive performance by Cervantes.

The way he imposed his size on Dejesus was monzonesque stuff.

Dejesus barely survived 15th round.

Would have been nice if Duran met Cervantes in the 70's.

[Flea Man]

Great first couple of rounds as well

[Flea Man]

:lol:It happens.

Moreso with these modern types.

[lufcrazy]

Have you seen Cervantes-Dejesus, Luf?

Very impressive performance by Cervantes.

The way he imposed his size on Dejesus was monzonesque stuff.

Dejesus barely survived 15th round.

Would have been nice if Duran met Cervantes in the 70's.

Yeah and his win over locche as well. He was quite a multi dimensional fighter and if it weren't for a defensive freak like benitez or an offensive freak like pryor he could have ruled the division for longer than he actually did. Very good fighter. One of the greatest at the weight.

[Flea Man]

Shame he and Muangsurin didn't get it on it late '77. There was talk of it from both sides.

[lufcrazy]

Yeah that'd have been a bit special certainly!

Never knew before tonight he'd beaten a green mamby also.

[Flea Man]

Who? Muangsurin? That was a massive robbery by all accounts. However, after the Thai lost the title to Sang-Hyun Kim (who you've probably seen looking woeful against Pryor years later) Mamby went to Korea and beat Kim (brutal kayo, I
Uploaded it to YouTube). So it all worked out good ;-)

[lufcrazy]

No cervantes :lol: unless there's a different mamby and i've just been licking windows for the last 15 minutes :patsch

[Flea Man]

Nah he probably did as well. Duran did as well!

Mutual opponent for Cervantes and Muansurin I know of; Jap' contender Lion Furuyama. I have him going the full 15 with Kid Pambele for the type. What I don't have is about a year later when Muangsurin destroyed him in only his 2nd bout. And sadly I only have their 15 round rematch in silent, which makes me sad every day.

[lufcrazy]

I don't think I have the first but i'd have to check.

[Flea Man]

Don't think it exists mate.

If ANYONE has Muangsurin-Furiyama II with audio, please let me know and I'll be eternally grateful. Just so I know it's out there!

[Hands of Iron]

Have you seen Cervantes-Dejesus, Luf?

Very impressive performance by Cervantes.

The way he imposed his size on Dejesus was monzonesque stuff.

Dejesus barely survived 15th round.

Would have been nice if Duran met Cervantes in the 70's.

Duran wouldve fought anybody put in front of him IMHO and while it's true Eleta looked at it for what it was (high risk, low reward), it remained within the realm of possibility up until Cervantes' defeat by Benitez, at which point they turned their attention to the unification bout with DeJesus.

[Kalasinn]

Huck-Povetkin '12

Round 1: Povetkin 10-9

Round 2: Povetkin 10-9

Round 3: Povetkin 10-9

Round 4: Huck 10-9 (Povetkin badly rocked!)

Round 5: Huck 10-9

Round 6: Povetkin 10-9

Round 7: Huck 10-8 (Povetkin rocked 4 times, once badly. Huck got moved & had his head snapped back by some big punches, but was never stunned.)

Round 8: Povetkin 10-9

Round 9: Huck 10-9 (Povetkin rocked twice.)

Round 10: Povetkin 10-9 ?

Round 11: Huck 10-9 (Povetkin rocked twice, once badly. Huck rocked!)

Round 12: Huck 10-8 (An exhausted Povetkin is wobbled & buckled a few more times, & barely able to stand at the final bell. Would he have survived another minute?)


Total: Huck 115-112

[tommygun711]

Huck-Povetkin '12

Round 1: Povetkin 10-9

Round 2: Povetkin 10-9

Round 3: Povetkin 10-9

Round 4: Huck 10-9 (Povetkin badly rocked!)

Round 5: Huck 10-9

Round 6: Povetkin 10-9

Round 7: Huck 10-8 (Povetkin rocked 4 times, once badly. Huck got moved & had his head snapped back by some big punches, but was never stunned.)

Round 8: Povetkin 10-9

Round 9: Huck 10-9 (Povetkin rocked twice.)

Round 10: Povetkin 10-9 ?

Round 11: Huck 10-9 (Povetkin rocked twice, once badly. Huck rocked!)

Round 12: Huck 10-8 (An exhausted Povetkin is wobbled & buckled a few more times, & barely able to stand at the final bell. Would he have survived another minute?)


Total: Huck 115-112


I would never have round 12 be a 10-8 round... I notice you always award 10-8 rounds unfairly

[McGrain]

Devon Alexander UD10 Marcos Maidana

Fascinating fight for being so one-sided, mainly due to Alexander who is at a real crossroads now. This is his best performance for year, and if Maidana is to keep his journeyman status at 147, Alexander just thrashed the gatekeeper. Still, there a questions, his temperament, 12 round stamina at 147 (looks good though) and can he maintain that fluidity against someone who wants to hit him back more? What can he do if they deprive him of his beloved clinching? Can he sort out that jab?

ALEXANDER: 1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
MAIDANA: 2,3

[Kalasinn]

I would never have round 12 be a 10-8 round... I notice you always award 10-8 rounds unfairly

Ergh I was way too tired, I see your point now.

[frankenfrank]

Jose Luis Ramirez vs Alexis Arguello .
rds 1-5 even with Arguello more of d aggressor and Ramirez having d better of landed punches , rd 6 is a 10-8 4 Ramirez , rd 9 i could excuse 4 Arguello and rd 10 even again , all in all 99-98 in favor of Ramirez , d least he could b given 4 this fight . If anything , he had more case winning a few of d early rds , thus increasing d gap 4 his favor .

[The Wanderer]

Devon Alexander UD10 Marcos Maidana

Fascinating fight for being so one-sided, mainly due to Alexander who is at a real crossroads now. This is his best performance for year, and if Maidana is to keep his journeyman status at 147, Alexander just thrashed the gatekeeper. Still, there a questions, his temperament, 12 round stamina at 147 (looks good though) and can he maintain that fluidity against someone who wants to hit him back more? What can he do if they deprive him of his beloved clinching? Can he sort out that jab?

ALEXANDER: 1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
MAIDANA: 2,3

Alexander did look good through much of that fight, especially about round 5 on. I wonder if that bout has permanently put Maidana in the role of gatekeeper, because aside from maybe Berto I can't envision him doing well against the big names at Welter or Jr. Middle. (And the only reason I throw Berto's name out there is because Berto is so flatfooted and much less defensively savvy on the inside. Iif anything Berto would have more of a handspeed advantage than Alexander and better power also.)

Alexander did show one or two of his old flaws, (mainly being tight and stiff early) but in terms of punch output, variety, defense, using counterpunching, stamina and his defensive skills, it looked like a big improvement from his last few fights.

[McGrain]

I thought Maidana was basically a gatekeeper at 140 tbh. That belt he's wandering around with is WBA, to whit, joke.

Alexander's jab is horrible, but other than that I thought he looked great.

[The Wanderer]

I thought Maidana was basically a gatekeeper at 140 tbh. That belt he's wandering around with is WBA, to whit, joke.

Good point about the belt.

The difference as I see it is that before now is Maidana managed to beat enough prospects or throw enough of a scare into highly rated fighters that you could at least make the argument for him as being crude, awkward and dangerous.

Since the Morales fight I think people have been realizing that he's only dangerous if you're crazy enough to try to meet him head on in a slugfest or if you neglect your defense. With Alexander having just shown how effective simple clinching is against him on the inside and how a little head movement and counter punching can cut him down to size, people are going to see that Maidana, no matter how hard he hits, isn't very dangerous to a top level talent if you just use your brain.

By the way McGrain, do you see him beating any major name at Welter? Maybe he can snag another WBA belt but aside from Berto and Ortiz (if Ortiz didn't learn anything from their previous encounter) I have a hard time picturing him beating anyone of note.

Alexander's jab is horrible, but other than that I thought he looked great.Yeah, he still flicks the jab and pulls it up short. Do you think there'll be any work there, or is that something that's going to be hard to iron out of Devon's style?

[Flea Man]

Alexander needs to stop moaning like a female tennis player before/when he throws. Someone's gonna' time that shit soon.

[McGrain]

By the way McGrain, do you see him beating any major name at Welter? Maybe he can snag another WBA belt but aside from Berto and Ortiz (if Ortiz didn't learn anything from their previous encounter) I have a hard time picturing him beating anyone of note.


Yeah, I think they both could do so, I think they are interesting additions to the division anyway.


Yeah, he still flicks the jab and pulls it up short. Do you think there'll be any work there, or is that something that's going to be hard to iron out of Devon's style?
I hope they work on it. It's a disaster if they don't. People just walk up to him and hit him when he's tired :lol:

[McGrain]

Alexander Povetkin MD12 Marco Huck

The thinking is that Huck got trolled here and I reckon maybe so. Weird tension in this fight in spite of the fact that it isn't very good and Huck's rambling offence is qauite fun. Remember all that seeming bullshit Atlas talked about Povetkin "not having an identity yet"? True, isn't it?

Marco Huck: 1,4,5,7,8,10,11,12
Alexander Povetkin:2,3,6,9

HUCK 8-4.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Chan-Hee Park vs Miguel Canto

Round 1 – 10-9 park
Round 2 – 10-9 park
Round 3- 10-9 park..at this point probably Canto is thinking “This pendejo really can fight !!” This round is close though
Round 4- 10-9 Canto
Round 5- 10-9 park
Round 6- 10-9 park
Round 7- 10-9 park
Round 8 – 10-9 park
Round 9 – 10-9 park – close
Round 10-10-9 park….love the way he puts this uppercut.
Round 11- 10-9 park – close…nice uppercut by canto
Round 12 – 10-9 park
Round 13- 10-9 park

Park is very tired now....
Round 14- 10-9 canto – close
Round 15- 10-9 canto

Park 12-3 IMO

Canto had his moments..but this korean is really good !

Park not bothered by Canto´s jabs with his very good upper body movement he makes Canto miss a lot.....good positioning too.....always ready to land.....his attack seems sometimes a bit awkward, but damn he is effective....
Park cutting off the ring well, I really like Park´s jab as well….great counter-punches during the fight.....
This is a Great performance ! He was tired in the later rounds, but before that he really dominated, he did very very well against an amazing boxer like Canto.....

Anyone else watched it ?

Chan-Hee Park.....a interesting fighter to know.....

[Foreman Hook]

Alexander Povetkin MD12 Marco Huck

The thinking is that Huck got trolled here and I reckon maybe so. Weird tension in this fight in spite of the fact that it isn't very good and Huck's rambling offence is qauite fun. Remember all that seeming bullshit Atlas talked about Povetkin "not having an identity yet"? True, isn't it?

Marco Huck: 1,4,5,7,8,10,11,12
Alexander Povetkin:2,3,6,9

HUCK 8-4.

XPERT-scorecard i agree m8. :thumbsup

[sweet_scientist]

Chan-Hee Park vs Miguel Canto

Round 1 – 10-9 park
Round 2 – 10-9 park
Round 3- 10-9 park..at this point probably Canto is thinking “This pendejo really can fight !!” This round is close though
Round 4- 10-9 Canto
Round 5- 10-9 park
Round 6- 10-9 park
Round 7- 10-9 park
Round 8 – 10-9 park
Round 9 – 10-9 park – close
Round 10-10-9 park….love the way he puts this uppercut.
Round 11- 10-9 park – close…nice uppercut by canto
Round 12 – 10-9 park
Round 13- 10-9 park

Park is very tired now....
Round 14- 10-9 canto – close
Round 15- 10-9 canto

Park 12-3 IMO

Canto had his moments..but this korean is really good !

Park not bothered by Canto´s jabs with his very good upper body movement he makes Canto miss a lot.....good positioning too.....always ready to land.....his attack seems sometimes a bit awkward, but damn he is effective....
Park cutting off the ring well, I really like Park´s jab as well….great counter-punches during the fight.....
This is a Great performance ! He was tired in the later rounds, but before that he really dominated, he did very very well against an amazing boxer like Canto.....

Anyone else watched it ?

Chan-Hee Park.....a interesting fighter to know.....

Park was a super talented fighter. Kind of like a 10 round (instead of 6 round) Zab Judah - as far as mental strength and talent goes, anyway. He did choke away some fights in his career he should never have lost, but still had a very good career all things considered.

Canto of course was not near his best here - his timing was non-existent. A Park type fighter would always cause problems for Miguel Canto though with his speed and combinations. But it would have been interesting to see if a prime Canto could have at least stayed close enough to Park to cause Park to melt down.

Apparently their rematch was much closer, so I'd be inclined to think that prime Canto could indeed turn the tide.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Park was a super talented fighter. Kind of like a 10 round (instead of 6 round) Zab Judah - as far as mental strength and talent goes, anyway. He did choke away some fights in his career he should never have lost, but still had a very good career all things considered.

Canto of course was not near his best here - his timing was non-existent. A Park type fighter would always cause problems for Miguel Canto though with his speed and combinations. But it would have been interesting to see if a prime Canto could have at least stayed close enough to Park to cause Park to meltdown.

Apparently their rematch was much closer, so I'd be inclined to think that prime Canto could indeed turn the tide.

:good Yeah...Canto´s speed was still good enough IMO, but his timing was not there anymore like you said, agreed......
There is more Park fights on youtube.....will watch more tomorrow.....

[frankenfrank]

Since i read shit about Holmes beating McCall here we go (not b4 i watched Lewis vs Akinwande) :
McCall : rds 1,5,9 (rd 9 is a 10-8 due 2 only d ropes holding holmes upright , snapping holmes' head wildly while on d ropes , cutting and busting his face) , 10 , 11
Holmes : rds 2,6,7
d rest were even , so d fight is scored 117:114 in favor of McCall , there is a case 4 mccall winning yet more rds due 2 holmes holding d ropes and being punished and outworked while on them , plus , according d UWFi rules touching d ropes costs 1 a pt but i was as generous as i could excluding a robbery and scored it this way .

[Flea Man]

Haven't seen the rematch but I think I had it 12-3 as well Vic. Brilliant performance from Park, who didn't turn up in the first Oguma fight and was promptly executed for his lack of drive.

I still havent seen the Canto-Park rematch :patsch

[GPater11093]

Park was phenomenal in that fight, genuinly the greatest Flyweight performance ever IMO

[lora]

I've always thought Park vs Canto was a truly great chessmatch.You can really see them both thinking in there.

Canto was definitely past his peak physically and so the speed edge meant a lot, in the face of diminished activity levels and sharpness, but i'm not sure i agree he was significantly eroded timing-wise.

I didn't see much sloppyness or diminished integration between hand eye co-ordination and foot balance when punching.He wasn't falling in trying to lead, unable to keep his shots as tight as usual etc

Id put where he was in his career as similar to how laguna looked in his fights with Ramos to Buchanan, as opposed to his Ortiz level absolute peak.Canto, like lAguna was still more or less great imo, albeit at that same stage where he was going to start falling away seriously within a couple of years and a few more tough fights.

Part of what bothered him against Park imo was that he had got into a long comfort zone of fights where he was able to operate out of that backfoot matador comfort-zone that he was so good at.Playing the make them miss and make them pay card against fighters who were happy to lead regularly and stalk...thus allowing the great footwork of Canto to dictate things.

Park was the first fighter in ages who refused to do that and initiated a chessmatch at ring centre, with lots of feinting and an eye for being the one to make canto miss and counter.The speed and activity advantage gave him a comfort zone, but he did also straight outbox and outjab Miguel for good chunks of the first 12 rounds.That was what endeared the performance to me, i wouldn't like it as much if it was won 80-90% by pure speed\physical advantages and Park firing out loads of overwhelming partially landed combos without much creativity

.Park had the comfort zone, but it was more a more physically even technical fight than some of the other "defensive specialist gets beat by outside range\speed\activity" bouts like Hearns vs Benitez and Perez vs Lora

Well maybe arguably not Hearns vs Benitez, as Wilfred was physically impressive at 154 and not faded...he just didn't seem to care enough.

It's a shame Canto got shafted in the let-down rematch, as i think he could have still made another few defences, like Cervantes did after he regained the title post-Benitez.Maybe pick up a few strong wins against favourable styles for an old craftsman, like a not quite prime Laciar, Tae-Shik Kim, Magri etc..

[Moochie]

but he did also straight outbox and outjab Miguel for good chunks of the first 12 rounds.That was what endeared the performance to me, i wouldn't like it as much if it was won 80-90% by pure speed\physical advantages and Park firing out loads of overwhelming partially landed combos without much creativityMaybe not 80-90%, but there was a lot of that going on, I thought (although I wouldn't say his combos lacked creativity). That's what gave him the significant edge in the fight.

I agree with you that Canto wasn't nearly as far gone as people make out, though. I don't think he looked bad, to be honest. Excellent fight with a clear winner. Park at his best would've likely always taken that fight.

[lora]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, it was a clear factor and park had a comfort zone throughout because of it.Just overall i'd put the fight in the technical chessmatch category, from both fighters perspective.

I'm probably just looking into it too much.Nobody has said it was a Pea vs Hurtado equivalent or anything like that, that fight being probably one of the definitive examples of an older, faded slower technician struggling with awkward speed.

[Flea Man]

Quality post lora. As I said, not seen the rematch; how does it go down and is it down to one of Park's lethargic showings (party-fuelled I imagine)?

[lora]

Canto fought with more vigour and park wasn't as sharp.Plus he faded badly\mentally crumbled.I've heard he actually wanted to retire on his stool late in the fight, with the corner only just convincing him to fight on.

[McGrain]

Harry Arroyo TKO11 Terrence Allii

This is a fantastic action fight between two apparent underachievers. Both look good throughout the contest although neither one has just the best of defences, good for us but bad for them.

They both have good offences, but they are very differt. Allii is rellying upon a swarming attack reasonably reminicent of Joe Frazier (apart from in the seventh, when he takes to his toes in a bizarre and jarring but decent impression of Muhammad Ali in a round he unfortunately lost), swarming in for a high-volume in-fighting attack made up of 3 part hooks, 2 part uppercuts and one-part paticake. These shortarm scoring punches with little on them for a recurring them though as the guys mix up the speed and power in their shots as well as the type.

Arroyo, for his part, is looking to land longer punches but never really gets his jab going as he would like. Whereas Allii rellies upon his impressive speed to keep him safe, he often forgets to move his head or remain elusive with his body. Arryo too is porous, rellying to much upon a static guard to keep him safe from a volume attack. It leads to trouble inside where his neat counter-punching abilities can't keep him ahead on the cards.

I had Allii three points ahead at the time of the stoppage, I didn't score the eleventh.

The punch that did the damage was a beauty. Arroyo had been throwing the straight right to the hand all night, but here he feinted to the body mostly with his eyes and head, then swung in a really rough looking hook from a square stance that caught an unprepared Allii bang on the chin. Allii had looked a litlte haunted to me in the ninth and tenth and maybe he was beginning to feel the electric pace.

[McGrain]

Andy Till TKO3 Tony Collins

I loved Andy Till, he just looked so horrible, fought face first but with OK head movement & guard, pushed into people's space and just let rip with hard crude punches. Boxrec says Collins was young but had plenty of experirence which made for a very interesting first round but it's one of those ones where although Collins wins the round, he looks unhappy about how the fight is going, what's happening. In the second round he's brutalised horribly at the ropes before being throw face and shoulder first onto the canvas with the type of impact that would have Bernard Hopkins in a body-cast for six months...Till gets up, but he is done and in the third it's Bambi and the butcher's block.

Till got his shit pushed in a bit when he stepped up, but here managed the first of two successful British light-middle defences.

[natonic]

Harry Arroyo TKO11 Terrence Allii

This is a fantastic action fight between two apparent underachievers. Both look good throughout the contest although neither one has just the best of defences, good for us but bad for them.

They both have good offences, but they are very differt. Allii is rellying upon a swarming attack reasonably reminicent of Joe Frazier (apart from in the seventh, when he takes to his toes in a bizarre and jarring but decent impression of Muhammad Ali in a round he unfortunately lost), swarming in for a high-volume in-fighting attack made up of 3 part hooks, 2 part uppercuts and one-part paticake. These shortarm scoring punches with little on them for a recurring them though as the guys mix up the speed and power in their shots as well as the type.

Arroyo, for his part, is looking to land longer punches but never really gets his jab going as he would like. Whereas Allii rellies upon his impressive speed to keep him safe, he often forgets to move his head or remain elusive with his body. Arryo too is porous, rellying to much upon a static guard to keep him safe from a volume attack. It leads to trouble inside where his neat counter-punching abilities can't keep him ahead on the cards.

I had Allii three points ahead at the time of the stoppage, I didn't score the eleventh.

The punch that did the damage was a beauty. Arroyo had been throwing the straight right to the hand all night, but here he feinted to the body mostly with his eyes and head, then swung in a really rough looking hook from a square stance that caught an unprepared Allii bang on the chin. Allii had looked a litlte haunted to me in the ninth and tenth and maybe he was beginning to feel the electric pace.

Both these guys were flawed as you say, but a couple of my favorites from the 80's. This is a good scrap. I always thought of it as a poor man's Monzon vs Valdez.

[salsanchezfan]

Today I watched Valdez-Briscoe III.

They should have been satisfied with two. This was an awful fight, devoid of any of the scintillating action of the second fight (I haven't seen the first). Briscoe looked slow and tame, which allowed the quicker-handed Valdez to throw combinations almost at will. It resembled a sparring match more than anything, and was not competitive. I had Valdez winning 13-1-1.

[McGrain]

Both these guys were flawed as you say, but a couple of my favorites from the 80's. This is a good scrap. I always thought of it as a poor man's Monzon vs Valdez.

Haha, Monzon-Valdez I like that.

[lufcrazy]

Chacon vs Lopez.

Whilst Chacon's style makes for a great fight, he really isn't the most skillful of boxers.

His jab is good and he is quite adept at getting leverage on his punches. But you cannot defend with your chin! Ok, that's exactly what chacon did here and he did so succesfully but that's not the point, or is it?

Chacon clearly would give a lot of fighter's a tough night but if you were to make any sort of judgement on him based off film, other than "hits hard and is formidable" there isn't much to say.

Guy had a great career (barring a strange hiatus from world class competiton) and whilst he does look formidable, he certainly doesn't look like a world class fighter to me. Maybe on the level of say Marcel cerdan? or a Basilio.

Don't get me wrong, these actually are world class fighters compared to the majority, just not their peers in the HOF.

Anyways, if anyone can decipher that babble and has seen the fight, it was a classic!

[Flea Man]

Hold on...Chacon really isn't all that great anyway. What he was good at was fighting off the ropes, absorbing punishment and powering his way back into fights.

He wasn't all that, not compared to someone like Basilio. Have you seen Chacon-Limon IV? Chacon certainly had two phases to his career, as I said when I made the suggestions what you'd think to be his physical prime wasn't because of his lifestyle and struggles with the weight, and up at a higher weight and shopworn he put on the best showings of his career.

A hard fighter to judge. But nearly always in great fights and owner of some quality scalps. Even if I do think he lost the 2nd Boza fight pretty clearly.

[Flea Man]

But yeah great fight especially whe you consider he's gunslinging with arguably the hardest puncher in featherweight history. He busts Lopez up!

[lora]

Been ages since i watched it, but i remember Chacon boxing very well against Lopez.Good footwork and super accurate lead rights.

I agree he was never a great talent, though at 126 he was usually a pretty nice boxer-puncher when he showed up in shape.then the wars started...

[Flea Man]

Indeed he couldn't miss with the right hand.

That era of super feathers just beggars belief. It starts going mental after Navarette demolishes Boza. And Boza had already gone through Limon and Chacon I.

After that the series of fights just gets absurd :lol:

[lufcrazy]

Flea I pretty much agree with everything you said then and was just hoping I wasn't miles off!

Crazy crazy game plan to rely on your chin holding up and your power being too much but it did bring him some success.

[Flea Man]

Deffo'. Although when he first came onto the scene at feather he went on a tear as well.

I really rate the Lopez performance. The 4th Limon fight is right up there with the best fights I've ever seen.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Yeah....I also remember I was a bit surprised with some of Chacon moves there.......that was certainly a more skilled version of Bobby.....although not highly skilled.....

[lufcrazy]

Chandler vs (if you beat me you'll only get a draw)Murata 2.

Jeff uses good angles here and smothers Murata inside allowing to waste energy. His uppercuts are brutal as well, he really throws everything into them. Good handspeed and punch selection here.

Just about to watch the third.

[El Bujia]

Chacon vs Lopez.

Whilst Chacon's style makes for a great fight, he really isn't the most skillful of boxers.

His jab is good and he is quite adept at getting leverage on his punches. But you cannot defend with your chin! Ok, that's exactly what chacon did here and he did so succesfully but that's not the point, or is it?

Chacon clearly would give a lot of fighter's a tough night but if you were to make any sort of judgement on him based off film, other than "hits hard and is formidable" there isn't much to say.

Guy had a great career (barring a strange hiatus from world class competiton) and whilst he does look formidable, he certainly doesn't look like a world class fighter to me. Maybe on the level of say Marcel cerdan? or a Basilio.

Don't get me wrong, these actually are world class fighters compared to the majority, just not their peers in the HOF.

Anyways, if anyone can decipher that babble and has seen the fight, it was a classic!Very strange post.

[lufcrazy]

Very strange post.

I know :-( flea summed it up much better.

[Flea Man]

I will add again that it's much easier to get a hold on a fighters abilities of you watch as much of them as you can!

[lufcrazy]

I will add again that it's much easier to get a hold on a fighters abilities of you watch as much of them as you can!

I completely agree. But seeing a man on his best night is a good starting point :good

[Flea Man]

Well the Lopez fight is the best of that Chacon. Watch the 4th Limon fight and you'll be on your way :good

[lufcrazy]

Chandler v Murata 3.

Chandler is quite a weird guy in his fights with Murata. He has an extremely tight guard but looks completely vulnerable whenever the opponent opens up. However due to his guard he doesn't get hit much and his accuracy is really impressive so he usually outlands Murata despite throwing a lot less in some rounds.

Interesting to not his power at world level also he looked well powerful in the two fights snapping heads back with uppercuts but he'd only stopped 18 of 33 in his career. However when you look at world level, his ratio is much higher. I think in his successful title fights he's something like 10 victories 7 by knockout.

the only 2 guys he's failed to stop were lujan and gaby canizales.

Very effective fighter even though he looks spindly and scrappy at times.

[Flea Man]

Khaokor Galaxy would've mullered Chandler.

[lufcrazy]

Nah, chandler would have beat him on points.

[Flea Man]

Nah Khaokor would've opened him up. Way too awkward, strong and offensively versatile.

[lufcrazy]

Nah Khaokor would've opened him up. Way too awkward, strong and offensively versatile.

Who would you favour over galaxy?

[Flea Man]

Plenty. But In that B+ pack he could claim some scalps IMO.

The likes of Zarate,Pintor and Davila would be a bridge too far. I rate all of them over Chandler. The likes of Jofre, Harada and Olivares would be too much. Venice Bus Station would beat him, obviously.

[Flea Man]

You have to remember, his wins over Moon and Vasquez were very one-sided. Those performances are both outstanding IMO, and Khaokor lacked the dig of his brother.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Venice Bus Station would beat him, obviously.

Medel would beat Venice :deal:hey;)

[Flea Man]

Nah. Borkhorsor would stay behind his jab and counter Medel, not walking into his traps. Herrera hurt him and he got back up, if hurt he can come through it IMO.

Borkhorsor steadily brutalises Medel. Decision win :yep

[lufcrazy]

Pintor above chandler? Do you think he deserved to beat carlos?

[lora]

Khaokor would have a good shot at Olivares, stylistically.Ruben didn't do too greatly against fighters with the strength, tight straight punching and chin to stand in close with him and beat him to the punch.

Then again maybe olivares would go to his underestimated awkward mobility and win there like the rubbermatch with Castillo and the first ten against Alexis.

[Flea Man]

That's what I'm thinking. If he doesn't stand his ground with Khaokor then the Thai is fucked in terms of what he brings to the table. And, although he was proven tough, if he and Olivares have a shootout it's Olivares with the bigger power.

Khaokor was adept at turning or spinning off his man and firing off shots when settled, and repeat. This could stunt Olivares' timing and, as you say, let Galaxy get off first.

Olivares has more ways to win IMO.

[Flea Man]

Pintor above chandler? Do you think he deserved to beat carlos?

No I thought Zarate got the better of it, but no shame there. But Pintor was an ace boxer-puncher. If Chandler had faced the quality that Guadalupe did he'd have a far spottier record IMO.

[Flea Man]

I really rate Olivares in that mode by the way.

[salsanchezfan]

No I thought Zarate got the better of it, but no shame there. But Pintor was an ace boxer-puncher. If Chandler had faced the quality that Guadalupe did he'd have a far spottier record IMO.


It bears repeating too, that the Zarate-Pintor fight was very close. Zarate deserved to win I thought, but I only had him up by a couple points.

[lora]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


A past prime and already injury ravaged Grigorian beats up his limited "typical strawweight challenger" level opponent.

What a waste of a career this guy was.He was a good fighter who could have been right in the mix making interesting fightswith the other lightweight champions and genuinely solid contenders of his day.

Instead he did a 90s calzaghe, but (marco rudolph aside) without even the serviceable domestic talent or past prime names that Joe would defend against.

[Drew101]

No I thought Zarate got the better of it, but no shame there. But Pintor was an ace boxer-puncher. If Chandler had fraced the quality that Guadalupe did he'd have a far spottier record IMO.

Tough to say. I don't think Chandler's opposition at bantamweight is really that bad and Jeff came through it OK, for the most part. I think they both run the other's list of challengers. Jeff might have struggled with Davila and Owen, but I think he still wins both fights.

[lufcrazy]

Yeah chandler is underrated in terms of his opposition quality imo. He did pretty good with who he fought and was largely successful.

[Flea Man]

New pics and newspaper articles of Borkhorsor found! Anyone know someone at Boxrec I can contact to thank/find out where they found them?

[lufcrazy]

Just watched a collection of old fights.

Fitz v corbett
Jeffries v sharkey
Burns v o'brien
Burns v squires.

I also saw another corbett fight but I can't remember the name. He was some regional champ.

Fitz genuinely looks world class slipping the left hook and landing the body shot. Really good moves. He's in my top 3 p4p as well btw.

Jeffries v sharkey was recorded through a hidden camera so the quality wasn't the best. Jeffries ring movement was quite impressive though. He was a good ring general. He wasn't this caveman brawler he's made out to be, he was much more of a boxer, seemed to punch at range and clinch in tight. Maybe boxing hasn't progressed that much after all.

The less said about burns o'brien, the better.

Burns looked awesome against squires. The guy reportedly was on a 37 ko streak and had his shit pushed in by really good sharp counters.

[Flea Man]

Burns really showed his right hand off against the Aussie, who fell like he'd been shot.

[lufcrazy]

Burns really showed his right hand off against the Aussie, who fell like he'd been shot.

Yeah he looked really good I thought.

The guy should have stayed at lhw. He was clearly the best lhw in the world and could well have secured a great legacy at the weight.

[Flea Man]

Nah, he did the right thing. Heavyweight Champion of the World in his day? I bet he was pretty happy with what he achieved.

[lufcrazy]

Nah, he did the right thing. Heavyweight Champion of the World in his day? I bet he was pretty happy with what he achieved.

Oh yeah i'm sure he is.

I'm not being clear in what I meant. I think he could have done like armstrong and simultaneously ruled the divisions. He was way above any lhw of his day.

[lufcrazy]

That being said, whilst he was quite talented, he was a paper champ in the hw division.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Hideki Tokada vs Yokthai Sithoar

Oh My God !!! This is awesome !

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Impressive display of heart by both guys.....One of the best fights I ever seen.....

[McGrain]

Micheal Carbajal TKO8 Robinson Cuesto

Modern classic no less, as Cuesto battles for survival against a rampant Carbajal. In the first, Cuesto's plan of jab, move and look for an opening for a sharp, hard right-hand looks good, and the length of his punches grab him a purposeful looking opening frame. But it's not the classic Panamanian style, he fights out of a sort of crouch, it's not so much that he leaves his punches lying out there more that he leans in when he throws them, he's trying to give himself all the length he can, which is understandable against Carbajal, but he forgets to move off sometimes, and it does him harm in two. He leans in with a jab and gets hurt by Carbajal on his way in. From here on the fight changes. Cuesto looks different straight away, he suddenly seems vulnerable, he looks like a spooked horse and Carbajal just seems that little bit closer all the time.

At the beginning of the third he looks to have regained himself and does everything right, jabbing and moving without becoming un-economical, holding on the inside and stalling at the break, and although he's on his way to losing the round he looks to have at least regained himself a little when he leans in on another punch and gets absolutely leathered with the left hook. Carbajal's left can be a thing of beauty and this was perfect for him, maybe just slightly inside mid-range? He wheels it round on a fencepost and the full force crashes through Cuesto's moored chin. Cuesto looks utterly gone, he does the little dance, he does the splayed collapse, he hits his head on the canvas...but somehow gets up.

Norman Mailer once wrote that a fighter could "continue indefinitely" if he recieved the knockout blow but somehow survived it. I think he cited Frazier-Foreman. I always felt it was mostly bullshit but if I was going to defend that statement I'd pick this fight. Carbajal hits this guy with everything he's got, every punch there is, he launches a sustained body attack as brutal as any i've ever seen, he mixes in cruel, cruel punches to the head but Cuesto doesn't go down again. A combination of heart, chin and possibly the severance of the nerves that tell his brain he is beaten allow him to stay in the fight and I actually have him winning the sixth based upon two brutal right hands to the head and a left-hook to the body - he also throws, and half lands, two astonishing punches wound up in the style of a baseball pitcher, including the glance behind himself as he dashes his right hand across.

Carbajal seemed black affronted and was so astonished he did not counter.

He was more afronted though by Cuesto's refusal to buckle in the seventh as he lands a triple left-hook (body, head, body) that would have had Joe Frazier out of his seat applauding and even more astonished when he Cuesto finally collapses under an overwhelming attack in the 8th - once again fully splayed on the deck, once again there seems to be impact between head and canvas - only to rise once more. Carbajal is actually shouting at his corner, he seems genuinely furious. It's the closest I've seen to Apollo Creed's shake of the head as Balboa rises in the last of their first fight in Rocky I!

The referee waves the fight off, and it's the right thing to do, but he arguably should have been allowed to continue here if he were allowed to continue in the third!

As fluent as Carbajal has ever been on offence but he was only able to showcase his skills due to the astounding punch resistance and heart of Robinson Cuesto.

[McGrain]

Pichit Sithbangprachan KO3 Rodolfo Blanco

Cool performance by Sithbranranckorfor who looks relaxed and poised, if not particularly special (to me - Ian Darke sounds like he's going to shit himself with delight in the commentary) in dispatching veteran Rodolfo Blanco. On paper Sithbangproaejfgaldkgj just didn't have the experience to win this fight, but he put them together well whilst showing good punch resistance to Blanco's heavy jab and foraging uppercut.

A nice win against an opponent who looked like he didn't want to be there after taking his lumps early in 2 and probably quit when he was legitimately hammered to the canvas with a nasty, clubbing right-hand.

Fun miniature.

[McGrain]

Paul Hodkinson TKO4 Ricardo Cepeda

The underated Hodkinson is in full control of the huge Cepeda from teh first. Great boxing and sharp punches inside, never allowing Cepeda to smother or handle him, and although he doesn't box from the outside in the traditional sense, he countered beautifully in one and two off a little half-step and closed the distance well with decent shots when he wanted to come in.

Good performance.

[Lester1583]

Hideki Tokada vs Yokthai Sithoar
Oh My God !!! This is awesome !

Nice fight!

Have you seen last year's FOTY candidate Shinsuke Yamanaka vs. Ryosuke Iwasa, Vic?

Good action between two young undefeated bantamweights.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Yes.....IB posted right here in this thread that fight.....