the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

[Mantequilla]

Can one of the mods sticky this?.

it's about time the forum at least had one of these for stuff you have recently watched and might not want to open a whole new thread for, but is worth discussing.

[sweet_scientist]

I've needed an excuse to post all my scorecards in a thread and this might be the one to cop it. :D

[Mantequilla]

Damn right:good.

i've been scoring all the controversial eubank fights recently, which ended up amounting to about half of his title defences.I'll post a write-up soon.

You got any cards for his stuff sweet?.First Watson fight is a nice technica fight that always seems to get differing opinions.I'd be interested in your take on it.

[sweet_scientist]

Damn right:good.

i've been scoring all the controversial eubank fights recently, which ended up amounting to about half of his title defences.I'll post a write-up soon.

You got any cards for his stuff sweet?.First Watson fight is a nice technica fight that always seems to get differing opinions.I'd be interested in your take on it.

Look forward to reading about it. Eubank is a fighter I haven't seen too much of, but I do have quite a few of his fights in the "must watch" basket, including the first Watson fight, so I'll give it a look later on and give you my thoughts.

[gooners!!]

Damn right:good.

i've been scoring all the controversial eubank fights recently, which ended up amounting to about half of his title defences.I'll post a write-up soon.

You got any cards for his stuff sweet?.First Watson fight is a nice technica fight that always seems to get differing opinions.I'd be interested in your take on it.

I thought Dan Schommer beat him.

[sweet_scientist]

Just watched and scored Eubank-Watson I. Neat fight.

Eubank edged it for me. I had him winning 115-113. Eubank taking rounds 1,2,4,5,8,9 and 12. Watson taking 3,6,7,10 and 11.

The contentious rounds for me were rounds 7,10 and 12, which were all close to being even rounds.

Eubank showed some good defensive skill in this one, avoiding a lot of Watson's shots, but his offensive output was uneven (good sharp shots mixed in with lots of winged and wild hooks and moments where he would go AWOL).

Watson was predictable and sturdy, and showed much better conditioning than Eubank. As the fight wore on his punches started to get through, even if they were thrown without much flair or creativity.

In the end I thought Eubank landed the cleaner shots overall and his better defense carried him through.

I wouldn't scream and shout if someone had Watson just ahead but I don't think there's too good an argument for it.

[Flea Man]

This thread NEEDS to be stickied :good

[GPater11093]

Today

Gregorio Peralta vs Oscar Bonavena Bonavena UD

Time: 8 mins Rounds: 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12

Peralta looked sharp on the outside with his jab and counters but Ring moved his head well and got inside using his overhand right and left hook. Bonavena looked alot stronger and i was quite impressed with his combos inside.

Jose Stable vs Vince Shomo Stable TKO6

Stable: 1,2,4,5 KD'D 2
Shomo: 2,3
Total: 49-47 Stable (3-1-1) rating: 8/10

A good fight easy to watch and a short one. Stable to me is a bit like Napoles but nowhere near as smooth or as well balanced. He does have similar punch variety and offence. His odd defensive movements helped him out here as Shomo started to struggle to find him and Stable kept Shome on the end of a left hook.

Round 2 Stable seemed to be winning but was hit across the ring onto the ropes and the ref counted it as a KD. Round 3 was a war with Stable hurting Shomo and backing him up on the ropes for about 30 seconds then Shomo came back and rocked Stable and the 2 slugged it out. After that Shomos right eye was cut and Stables left hand (hook and uppercut) started to take over for the ref to stop it in the 6th.

Michael Nunn vs James Toney Toney TKO11

Nunn: 2,3,4,6,7 KD'D 11 x2
Toney: 1,5,8,9,10
total: 95-95 Draw (5-5) rating: 7/10

Good fight Nunn was accurate early with fast shots and was out working Toney i felt in rounds 1 and 5 Toney landed the more effective shots despite being outworked. Nunn was looking good an dlanding alot at a high workrate till the 8th when Toneys harder shots started paying off as he turned it up and landed body shots. Toney started to slip more of Nunns shots in the 10th. The 11th was good as Toney landed a huge left hook that dropped Nunn who amazingly got up before being hit with a huge right into the ropes and the ref looked like he jumped in but he never so Toney wacked him againa nd that was that as Nunn slu,mped to his feet.

Soo Hwan Hong vs Yuh Kashara Hong UD

Hong: 2,3,5,6,9,10
Kashara: 1,4,7,8,11,12,13,14,15 KD'D 2,5,9,10x2
total 141-139 Hong (9-6 Kashara) total: 8/10

A good fight. Kashara was the better boxer but Hong seemed to hurt him with counters and give him a rough time with the hooks. Kashara had very good composure even after going down and kept to his gameplan that worked wel at times with long straight shots and counters. Kashara swept the last 5 for me but the KD's were costly and despite winning more rounds he lost on points in a very very good fight.

Carlos Monzon vs Bennie Briscoe 2 Monzon UD

Full rounds: 1,5,6,7,8,9,10,15

Good fight Brisce marched forwards as Monzon picked him off for the most part. I thought briscoe got the better of the 1st round with harder counters after slipping inside Monzons rangy shots. After that i felt Monzon had the necessary punching power and movement to keep Briscoe from advancing sufficiently to do damage inside, until the 9th where briscoe got inside a jab and landed a HUGE right hand that stunned Monzon who was really hurt in the 9th as Briscoe poured it on. The 10th was a big round for Monzon who hurt briscoe with a right hand as he advanced. The 15th i felt was a slight edge for Monzon who took the decision in a good fight.

I think from reading articles Monzon did much the same as in the first fight but IMO he either didnt have the punching power or didnt sit down on his shots enough in teh first fight to keep Briscoe off of him who it seems deservedthe decision.

[Bill1234]

Leonard-Hagler. Scored it 7-5 in favor of Hagler. Leonard's flurries didn't do enough to get him the rounds, Hagler's punches were much more effective IMO.

[Seamus]

Leonard-Hagler. Scored it 7-5 in favor of Hagler. Leonard's flurries didn't do enough to get him the rounds, Hagler's punches were much more effective IMO.

That's the way I saw it.

I watched Duran-Viruet I today. Man, Viruet put on the track shoes and ran like a girl. Not that I expected him to hang in the trenches with Duran, but he was literally running in the biggest circle possible, mugging for the judges and camera, occasionally landing a very good jab or pittypat combo. Meanwhile, Duran was hammering him and roughing him up. Worst of all, was Wepner calling it like it was close.

[Addie]

Orlando Canizales vs Junior Jones - 122lbs division

1. jones 10-9
2. jones 10-9
3. canizales 10-9
4. Jones 10-9
5. canizales 10-9
6. Even 10-10 (Close round)
7. Jones 10-9
8. Jones 10-9
9. Jones 10-9
0. Canizales 10-9
11. Jones 10-9
12. Canizales 10-9

7-4-1 Junior Jones.

Spirited effort by a 30 year old Orlando Canizales, but he couldn't get past the jab and for whatever reason didn't want to ever cut the ring off.

[sweet_scientist]

Finally watched Kid Gavilan's fight with Danny Bang Bang Womber.

You won't be surprised to know that my love affair with Kid Gavilan continued and I scored the fight for him 97-96.

It was a could have gone either way type of fight for me. Womber was the more consistent throughout, throwing and landing more shots, but I felt Kid Gavilan was better in terms of clean effective punching.

Loved the moment where Kid winds up three bolo punches consecutively amidst a ten punch flurry. Danny gave some of his own back and landed a bolo punch or two throughhout the fight which got the crowd going.

Enjoyable fight to watch, as most Gavilan fights are (Saxton farce excluded).

In terms of a rounds breakdown I gave Womber rounds 1,5 and 8. Gavilan rounds 3,6,7 and 10. The rest of the rounds even.

[GPater11093]

yesterday

Barkley vs Toney

Barkley:
Toney: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9

and

Kostya Tszyu vs Diosbelyes Hurtado ; very good fight

Tzyu: 1,2,3,4
Hurtado:1,

[Mantequilla]

Eubank 1(10-8),2,3,5,6,9
Sherry 8
even 4, 7

a relatively easy fight to score.Don't see why there was any controversy here to be honest, even allowing for Eubank being deducted the two points for fight ending butt.I guess it was because sherry was the first big fight that really exposed how eubank could really struggle if made to fight in a stalking/pressuring role.He was constantly moving, only stepping in for a lead right or flurry, then back on his bike.

However eubank coped well enough early and built up a nice lead.Eubank became increasinly frustrated with the movement and Sherry's taunting of him as it went on, but generally his defence was top-notch, so even if he was struggling to put more than one punch in at a time on a mobile target, he was still outworking/outlanding Sherry and winning close rounds.Sherry tired badly towards the end and looked in danger of being stopped before the butt.


Kalule vs Steve Gregory

A totally one-sided, truly tedious shutout.No need to score this.Gregory-a thoroughly mediocre standup stylist-spent most of the fight getting worked over on the ropes and was floored with one of the first punches of the fight.Would almost certainly have been over in a few rounds, had Kalule not been possessed of Locche level punching power.Kalule barely took a hanful of punches the entire fight and his defensive work is the only reason to watch this one.

Gregory later got knocked out in bout 4 rounds by ayala, which was one of his more notable wins, but really he was mediocre at best.

[Bill Butcher]

Can one of the mods sticky this?.

it's about time the forum at least had one of these for stuff you have recently watched and might not want to open a whole new thread for, but is worth discussing.

Whitaker-Chavez (again)

Didnt do a round by round this time, have done before tho, just wanted to watch the 2 best fighters since Leonard going at it.

Whitaker definitely won, Chavez never won a clear round in the entire fight, round 2 was probably his best tho... Pea won rds 3, 7 & 8 big time & has a claim for every other round as he was in every round.

[Mantequilla]

Chris Eubank vs Michael Watson (1)

eubank 2,4,5,7,8,9

watson 3,6,10,11,12

even 1,

A nice highly skilled chessmatch that was dominated by defensive work, though Eubank could have taken it wider had he maintained a consistent level of offensive sharpness throughout the entire fight, as Watson managed to do.

A lot of the rounds were close and without real decisive exchanges, so i wouldn't moan too much if someone thought Watson had done enough to edge this.I'd say Eubank would have been the one with the more legit claim to have been robbed, mind you.


Eubank vs Watson rematch

Eubank 1,5,6
Watson 2,4,7,8,9,10,11
even 3

Truly great fight, fought at a much faster pace and with far more exchanges than the first.Watson fighting effectively from a more aggressive countering style began to pay off after an even first half, as Eubank started to slow down.Michael's short right hand was effective in scoring as he began to clearly edge round after round.

Just as it seemed Eubank was about to either get stopped or take a one sided beating over the last few rounds, he got up from a half exhaustion/half accumulated punishment knockdown and almost casually unloaded a right uppercut that floored Watson heavily.A real jersey joe moment, though there's no doubt that the brain trauma sustained was the real reason watson was so badly out of it for the next round stoppage.

[Bill Butcher]

Cant remember my exact scorecard for the 1st Eubank-Watson fight but Im sure I had Watson a clear winner, might check it out soon.

[Mantequilla]

Finally watched Kid Gavilan's fight with Danny Bang Bang Womber.

You won't be surprised to know that my love affair with Kid Gavilan continued and I scored the fight for him 97-96.

It was a could have gone either way type of fight for me. Womber was the more consistent throughout, throwing and landing more shots, but I felt Kid Gavilan was better in terms of clean effective punching.

Loved the moment where Kid winds up three bolo punches consecutively amidst a ten punch flurry. Danny gave some of his own back and landed a bolo punch or two throughhout the fight which got the crowd going.

Enjoyable fight to watch, as most Gavilan fights are (Saxton farce excluded).

In terms of a rounds breakdown I gave Womber rounds 1,5 and 8. Gavilan rounds 3,6,7 and 10. The rest of the rounds even.


Don't think i've watched this one.Got about six gavilan DVD's sitting in a pile of stuff here i'll be watching soon .I've seen a lot of it already, but never had it all in the one place before, so watching them in chronological order should be interesting.


Did you check out the Winstone Louis fight , sweet?.I reckon you would like that one, considering your appreciation for Laguna and Buchanan.

[Mantequilla]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]/u

That guy has Watanabe vs Luis Ibanez uploaded in full.Prime Watanabe coasting along and dismantling his limited foe, getting possibly badly hurt by a bodyshot along the way....nice viscious finish.Can't be bothered posting the links.

[itrymariti]

Duran/De Jesus I.

I had DeJesus winning by a pretty thin margin on the old system. If you're giving him an extra point for the KD then it's more clear. I'd be interested to see other people's scorecards.

It was a very poor performance from Duran all round. Whether or not you buy his car crash excuse is another story, but his defence looked even greener than it was around that stage of his career, his timing was off, and he wasn't bulling to the inside and landing with the kind of ferocity he did against Buchanan a few months beforehand. It certainly took him a few months and a few fights to get back into full gear.

Hopefully, I'll get round to watching II and III tomorrow.

[sweet_scientist]

Don't think i've watched this one.Got about six gavilan DVD's sitting in a pile of stuff here i'll be watching soon .I've seen a lot of it already, but never had it all in the one place before, so watching them in chronological order should be interesting.


Did you check out the Winstone Louis fight , sweet?.I reckon you would like that one, considering your appreciation for Laguna and Buchanan.

I haven't checked it out yet but I will do so later tonight. Look forward to it.

I'd say Gavilan's one of the best fighters to watch on film no matter what one's proclivities are. He can box, he can slug, he can swarm. The complete package. Going through his fights chronologically wouldn't be a bad thing to do. There's hardly any bad fights amongst his lot.

[Addie]

Whether or not you buy his car crash excuse is another story

:lol:

[natonic]

Eddie Mustafa Muhammed vs Marvin Johnson. Mustafa makes an incredible commitment to his left hook to the body on his way to a stoppage.

1st 7 rounds of Vicente Saldivar vs Howard Winstone. Great stuff. Very, very solid technical skills with good action. I have it Saldivar 4-3 so far.

[essexboy]

Just watched and scored Eubank-Watson I. Neat fight.

Eubank edged it for me. I had him winning 115-113. Eubank taking rounds 1,2,4,5,8,9 and 12. Watson taking 3,6,7,10 and 11.

The contentious rounds for me were rounds 7,10 and 12, which were all close to being even rounds.

Eubank showed some good defensive skill in this one, avoiding a lot of Watson's shots, but his offensive output was uneven (good sharp shots mixed in with lots of winged and wild hooks and moments where he would go AWOL).

Watson was predictable and sturdy, and showed much better conditioning than Eubank. As the fight wore on his punches started to get through, even if they were thrown without much flair or creativity.

In the end I thought Eubank landed the cleaner shots overall and his better defense carried him through.

I wouldn't scream and shout if someone had Watson just ahead but I don't think there's too good an argument for it.

Lost my scorecard but I know I had Eubank winning by a point. People said Watson was robbed at the time and you still get idiots who havent even seen the fight saying it now. Some things never change. :-(

[sweet_scientist]

I haven't checked it out yet but I will do so later tonight. Look forward to it.

Just finished watching it, superb little boxing match. It's great when two fighters styles mesh so well, it's a joy to watch.

Winstone really had some sweet skills, especially his jab was impressive, and Baby Luis had that slick, slipping rhythm down pat.

[itrymariti]

Duran/De Jesus II.

You could always tell when Duran was really up for a fight: he was twice as fast, twice as heavy with his shots and got to the inside with much more impetus. The improvement in Duran since the first fight was marked. He seemed to have worked out how to avoid De Jesus’ quick potshotting from the outside which had clipped him repeatedly in the first fight, and his head movement had evolved considerably. I think this and the Ishimatsu fights were probably the first to showcase his growing defensive genius; before then, he’d been surprisingly hittable. De Jesus’ tried every tack; but when he boxed and moved, Duran cut off the ring and hit him even while he was dancing, and when he duked it out he just couldn’t match Duran’s ferocity and power. The kind of leather Duran was throwing would have emptied anybody’s tank within a couple of rounds, but he just didn’t stop. It really was amazing.

I had Duran up by about eight rounds before the stoppage. A comprehensive defeat of a legend in himself and thorough revenge for Duran’s first loss.

[Thread Stealer]

Paul Williams-Sergio Martinez

Excellent fight. I gave Martinez rounds 1 through 3, 8, 10, and 11. The rest to Williams. 114-114.

[Flea Man]

Paul Williams-Sergio Martinez

Excellent fight. I gave Martinez rounds 1 through 3, 8, 10, and 11. The rest to Williams. 114-114.

Wouldn't disagree.

Pesonally has Martinez winning the first 3, 8 and 11. THINK I had Williams winning the others, 115-113, HOWEVER, a round either way or a draw is perfectly acceptable.

To those who say Martinez was the only one landing effective punching; Williams made up for the flush shots he ate with his own, he had Martinez on queer street at one stage with a straight left (round 6 I think?)

Will watch it again, was a quality fight. A rematch for the WBO interim (useless) and the WBC at 154 is essential IMO.

[WhataRock]

Rocky Lockridge-Pedroza I

Dont even think I have ever seen this fight in full because I only really remember patches of it and certainly didnt score it before. I tend just to watch fights the first time and enjoy them rather then sit down and score them. I probably should change that habit.

Ive watched and scored up to round 10. Its been a good scrap so far but I feel the commentators, ring side scorers and obviously pro Lockridge arent giving Pedroza enough credit.
Basically an end of round poll has Rocky shutting out EP after 7 and even when Pedroza wins clear rounds there are still like 40-50% voting for Rocky.
Ignoring a lot of good bodywork and consistent scoring from Pedroza in favour for Rocky landing or half landing a bigger eye catching shots and being the aggressor.

Rocky made a great start and has rocked EP a couple of times..but the 9th and 10th were BIG rounds for Pedroza, with some vicious and exciting exchanges..Great work from both men.

So far Ive got it 5 rounds Pedroza, 4 round Lockridge and 1 even...with as I said Pedroza starting to get on top when I stopped it.

I shall watch the rest of it tommorrow and post my final card.
Cheers

[Thread Stealer]

Wouldn't disagree.

Pesonally has Martinez winning the first 3, 8 and 11. THINK I had Williams winning the others, 115-113, HOWEVER, a round either way or a draw is perfectly acceptable.

To those who say Martinez was the only one landing effective punching; Williams made up for the flush shots he ate with his own, he had Martinez on queer street at one stage with a straight left (round 6 I think?)

Will watch it again, was a quality fight. A rematch for the WBO interim (useless) and the WBC at 154 is essential IMO.

I think it was the end of the 4th round when Williams landed a big left hand and Martinez was hurt.

Rocky Lockridge-Pedroza I

Dont even think I have ever seen this fight in full because I only really remember patches of it and certainly didnt score it before. I tend just to watch fights the first time and enjoy them rather then sit down and score them. I probably should change that habit.

Ive watched and scored up to round 10. Its been a good scrap so far but I feel the commentators, ring side scorers and obviously pro Lockridge arent giving Pedroza enough credit.
Basically an end of round poll has Rocky shutting out EP after 7 and even when Pedroza wins clear rounds there are still like 40-50% voting for Rocky.
Ignoring a lot of good bodywork and consistent scoring from Pedroza in favour for Rocky landing or half landing a bigger eye catching shots and being the aggressor.

Rocky made a great start and has rocked EP a couple of times..but the 9th and 10th were BIG rounds for Pedroza, with some vicious and exciting exchanges..Great work from both men.

So far Ive got it 5 rounds Pedroza, 4 round Lockridge and 1 even...with as I said Pedroza starting to get on top when I stopped it.

I shall watch the rest of it tommorrow and post my final card.
Cheers

I thought Pedroza won it fairly, I didn't see the big controversy about it.

[PetethePrince]

Paul Williams-Sergio Martinez

Excellent fight. I gave Martinez rounds 1 through 3, 8, 10, and 11. The rest to Williams. 114-114.

Can't remember my round by round, pretty sure I gave round 11 to Williams. I scored it a draw too, nevertheless.

[WhataRock]

Rocky Lockridge-Pedroza I

Dont even think I have ever seen this fight in full because I only really remember patches of it and certainly didnt score it before. I tend just to watch fights the first time and enjoy them rather then sit down and score them. I probably should change that habit.

Ive watched and scored up to round 10. Its been a good scrap so far but I feel the commentators, ring side scorers and obviously pro Lockridge arent giving Pedroza enough credit.
Basically an end of round poll has Rocky shutting out EP after 7 and even when Pedroza wins clear rounds there are still like 40-50% voting for Rocky.
Ignoring a lot of good bodywork and consistent scoring from Pedroza in favour for Rocky landing or half landing a bigger eye catching shots and being the aggressor.

Rocky made a great start and has rocked EP a couple of times..but the 9th and 10th were BIG rounds for Pedroza, with some vicious and exciting exchanges..Great work from both men.

So far Ive got it 5 rounds Pedroza, 4 round Lockridge and 1 even...with as I said Pedroza starting to get on top when I stopped it.

I shall watch the rest of it tommorrow and post my final card.
Cheers

Watched the last 5 today.

Clear Pedroza win IMO...He ran away with it over the last 1/3. Arguably won the last 5 but the 15th I scored even and actually it probably should have went to Lockridge because he gave it his all in that round after getting bashed a little in the 14th.

Top fight..Rocky would have been a long reigning champion in any other era, he really took it to Pedroza and hurt him a couple of times.


In the end though Eusebio had to many tricks up his sleeve. To slick and really turned it on in the championship rounds.

I had it 9 rounds Pedroza...4 rounds Lockridge and two even. I could see someone having Lockridge up after 10 if they scored the even round for Rocky and another close one I saw just for Pedroza.

But clearly Eusebio had the late rounds with Rocky potentially stealing the last.

Dont see anything controversial about this one.

[essexboy]

Duran/De Jesus II.

You could always tell when Duran was really up for a fight: he was twice as fast, twice as heavy with his shots and got to the inside with much more impetus. The improvement in Duran since the first fight was marked. He seemed to have worked out how to avoid De Jesus’ quick potshotting from the outside which had clipped him repeatedly in the first fight, and his head movement had evolved considerably. I think this and the Ishimatsu fights were probably the first to showcase his growing defensive genius; before then, he’d been surprisingly hittable. De Jesus’ tried every tack; but when he boxed and moved, Duran cut off the ring and hit him even while he was dancing, and when he duked it out he just couldn’t match Duran’s ferocity and power. The kind of leather Duran was throwing would have emptied anybody’s tank within a couple of rounds, but he just didn’t stop. It really was amazing.

I had Duran up by about eight rounds before the stoppage. A comprehensive defeat of a legend in himself and thorough revenge for Duran’s first loss.

Im just going through Duran's fights myself. Just watched Duran-De Jesus I and Duran does seem very green whilst De Jesus is somewhere near his peak. Even on the inside De Jesus was bullying Duran a bit in this fight, I was wondering if he was still a bit stunned for the duration of the fight after his knockdown in the first round. De Jesus was very good though and outboxed Duran superbly. Heres how I scored it:

1: De Jesus 10-8
2: Duran 10-9
3: De Jesus 10-9
4: De Jesus 10-9
5: Duran 10-9
6: De Jesus 10-9
7: De Jesus 10-9
8: De Jesus 10-9
9: Duran 10-9
10: De Jesus 10-9

De Jesus 97-92 Duran

[WhataRock]

Barry Michael-Al Carter

To set the scene Al Carter was a hard hitting American prospect..The commentators repeatedly referred to him as one of top up and comers of the division at the time. Barry Michael would later become the IBF 130 champ but up until that stage his career had been a bit stop start with some losses for the Commonwealth title (back in that day it was considered more prestigious to be a Commonwealth champ) and abroad.

This fight was a lightweight eliminator for the title.


Its a great fight...Excellent display of chin by Michael, who just could not be dented all night despite looking a bit worse for wear at times in the 8th.

I scored it 5 a piece in the end.. a draw...Carter made a great start until Barry settled in and began to consistently beat his body..A lot of rounds saw Carter come out like someone possessed only the punch himself out on the iron jawed Aussie and be on the end of a bit of punishment himself by rounds end.

The second half had a lot of great see saw action...with Barry snatching the draw IMO with a big last round. I agreed with the ref's assessment who also had it a draw but was a little puzzled that the other judges had it so wide for Barry..99-94 and 98-92 respectively. Carter won at least 3 rounds clear as day but I must admit that some rounds were very hard to score as they were so closely fought.

Top fight anyway.

[Bill Butcher]

Whitaker v DLH
Chacon v Boza-Edwards II

Too many hard to score rds in both fights, eventually gave up & enjoyed the fkn fights, both should have been draws for different reasons.

Neither Pea or DLH deserved to win.
Neither Chacon or Boza-Edwards deserved to lose.

[itrymariti]

Im just going through Duran's fights myself. Just watched Duran-De Jesus I and Duran does seem very green whilst De Jesus is somewhere near his peak. Even on the inside De Jesus was bullying Duran a bit in this fight, I was wondering if he was still a bit stunned for the duration of the fight after his knockdown in the first round. De Jesus was very good though and outboxed Duran superbly. Heres how I scored it:

1: De Jesus 10-8
2: Duran 10-9
3: De Jesus 10-9
4: De Jesus 10-9
5: Duran 10-9
6: De Jesus 10-9
7: De Jesus 10-9
8: De Jesus 10-9
9: Duran 10-9
10: De Jesus 10-9

De Jesus 97-92 Duran

I've got to say I had it much closer myself; I think I only had De Jesus winning it by about two rounds. I think his smothering tactics and strength on the inside kept it from being too lopsided.

Obviously, Duran hadn't matured into the defensive genius we know him to have been now, but he looked awfully lethargic and easy to hit even compared to his greener performances at the time. I can't help but think that the Duran that fought Buchanan would have slipped his way inside and forced De Jesus to fight, and that we would have seen something more similar to the second and third fights. As I said earlier, you may or may not buy the car-crash story!

[sweet_scientist]

Im just going through Duran's fights myself. Just watched Duran-De Jesus I and Duran does seem very green whilst De Jesus is somewhere near his peak. Even on the inside De Jesus was bullying Duran a bit in this fight, I was wondering if he was still a bit stunned for the duration of the fight after his knockdown in the first round. De Jesus was very good though and outboxed Duran superbly. Heres how I scored it:

1: De Jesus 10-8
2: Duran 10-9
3: De Jesus 10-9
4: De Jesus 10-9
5: Duran 10-9
6: De Jesus 10-9
7: De Jesus 10-9
8: De Jesus 10-9
9: Duran 10-9
10: De Jesus 10-9

De Jesus 97-92 Duran

I had it pretty wide myself 97-93. The only rounds we differ upon are the 8th and the 9th. I gave the 8th to Duran and had the 9th even.

[sweet_scientist]

I watched the Jung Koo Chang-German Torres trilogy yesterday.

What I like about Chang is that he's really no bigger than a straw weight, and he's nearly always the smaller guy at 108, but he still kicks ass against bigger fighters, and is usually forcing them to retreat. For those that don't know German Torres, he is like an orthodox Jose Luis Ramirez, a strong, tough stalking machine. Yet Chang still finds a way to repel him and even put him on the back foot.

The first and third fights were fantastic back and forth action fights, with Chang getting the better of most rounds through his overwhelming speed and activity. He came pretty close to stopping Torres in the first fight, which is quite a feat for a guy so strong and tough. The third fight no one was really in trouble but they both battered each other pretty good and nearly every round was competitive, even though Chang was putting most in the bank.

The second fight showed Chang coming in in a pretty woeful state, lacking sharpness and energy, and as a result Torres was catching him with long wrecking ball sweeps to the body all night long. Chang was lucky to escape with a decision there, and I thought he lost the fight actually. If there was ever a slip up in Chang's career it was this one - not the first Zapata fight, which was an outright robbery that Chang deserved to win.

Jung Koo Chang vs. German Torres I: 117-110 Chang
Torres: 5( 10-8 )
Chang: 1,2,3,4,7,8,10( 10-8 ) and 11.
Rounds 6,9 and 12(9-9) even.

Jung Koo Chang vs. German Torres II: 116-113 Torres
Chang: 6,8 and 12.
Torres: 1,3,47,8 and 11.
Rounds 2,5 ( 9-9 ) and 10 even.

Jung Koo Chang vs. German Torres III: 117-111 Chang
Torres: 2,4 and 12
Chang: 1,3,5,6,7,8,9,10 and 11.

[natonic]

Wilfredo Gomez vs Juan Antonio Lopez II - on the undercard of Holmes - Cooney. Almost a year after Gomez's loss to Sanchez. It's always striking how much better Gomez's lateral movement is at 122 compared to 126. Good perfomance, but hard to look great against Lopez. Still think Gomez was just a little on the downside by this time.

Hagler KO 1 Sugar Ray Seales. My favorite version of Hagler is late 70's thru about 82. His movement is great and he could close quickly and deliver heavy shots with that reach. Hagler got some guys outta there quick (Seales, Watts). Awesome fighter during this period.

[GPater11093]

watched select rounds from Saldvar vs Sugar Ramos

Saldvar was brutal when tradng wth Ramos despte beng the lttler man hs combos were a joy to behold and the last 2 rounds were brutal.

Watched afew others but thats just what wanted to share

[Mantequilla]

Good stuff guys.This was the kind of stuffi wanted to get going with this thread.

[Mantequilla]

Eubank vs Sugarboy Malinga

Eubank:2,3,4,5(10-8 ),7,8,9,10,12
Malinga:6,11
round 1 even

Commentary had Eubank winning comfortably.

Good technical fight, that even moreso than the first Watson bout, was often dominated by quality defensive work.Neither fighter landed many powershots at all, with Eubank consistently getting the better of the jabbing.This ended up banking him close round after close round for me, resulting in a lopsided card despite the competitiveness of the individual rounds.

This is a recurring theme in most of Eubank's controversial fights for me.His do just enough mentality and the often notably inferior talent of his opponents, resulting in many close hard to score rounds.I tended to think he usually did have an often consistent, if slim edge in these kind of bouts,but i can see why others thought different.

Here he won very clearly though imo.Certainly one of his better "just enough" efforts, which would have been a robbery had he lost imo.

Malinga was a nice fighter at this stage.Good compact, if somewhat mechanical technician, with tidy defence and a nice long jab.Just not consistent or active enough.His later loss to Jones and success against Benn, reid etc actually came well past his peak.

[Mantequilla]

Eubank vs Tony Thornton

Eubank:1,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,
Thornton:5,11, 12
round 2 even

commentators had Eubank winning by about 3-4 points i think.

Good competitive fight that both showcased Eubank's strong abilities on the backfoot and his discomfort when forced to fight at a consistently fast pace and work for the full 12.

It also had a similar pattern throughout.thornton marching forward looking like a poor man's Briscoe behind a good high guard, some headmovement and a heavy jab, then letting chopping rights and hooks go when he had Eubank cornered.

For his part, Eubank fought and countered consistently off the backfoot here.Lots of movement, controlling the distance with a variety of jabs and bodyshots.Looked very sharp and slick at times, yet tended to tire towards the end of a lot of rounds and turned his back and ran a few times late on that could have resulted in a point deduction from a sterner ref.

Thornton actually landed the heavier more eye catching punches in most of the rounds, landing some nice neck snapping right hands as Eubank attempted to turn him, or pulled away.Problem was those shots would usually come in 20 to 30 second bursts after being outboxed and heavily outworked for the first two minutes.Generally i didn't think it was enough to be winning the rounds.

He also tired just as badly as Eubank, and was badly rocked circa 10th.All in all a clear win for Eubank imo.

[sweet_scientist]

Watched the last 5 today.

Clear Pedroza win IMO...He ran away with it over the last 1/3. Arguably won the last 5 but the 15th I scored even and actually it probably should have went to Lockridge because he gave it his all in that round after getting bashed a little in the 14th.

Top fight..Rocky would have been a long reigning champion in any other era, he really took it to Pedroza and hurt him a couple of times.


In the end though Eusebio had to many tricks up his sleeve. To slick and really turned it on in the championship rounds.

I had it 9 rounds Pedroza...4 rounds Lockridge and two even. I could see someone having Lockridge up after 10 if they scored the even round for Rocky and another close one I saw just for Pedroza.

But clearly Eusebio had the late rounds with Rocky potentially stealing the last.

Dont see anything controversial about this one.


I thought it was pretty close myself. Pedroza gave away too many early rounds and then had a battle on his hands to claw his way back. I thought he edged ahead toward the end and had some big rounds, but Lockridge bravely stole the 15th and the fight ended a draw.

Eusebio Pedroza vs. Rocky Lockridge I: 143-143 Draw
Pedroza: 7,8,9,10,12 and 14( 10-8 ).
Lockridge: 1,2,3,4,5, 11 and 15.
Rounds 6 and 13 even.

I can see someone having it for Pedroza by 2 or 3 points, but 5 points seems rather wide to me WAR.

[sweet_scientist]

Watched Kuniaki Shibata's first fight with Ben Villaflor yesterday. Interesting tactical affair pitting Shibata's quick combinations and defensive nous against Villaflor's resoluteness, strength and jabbing prowess.

In so far as the exchanges went, Shibata was getting the best of it imo, landing crisp, eye catching punches, but there were too many periods of inactivity from his part where the more sturdy and reliable jab of Villaflor was piling up points. Whenever Villaflor got past mid range he was also effectively raking Shibata's body and had him wincing on more than one occasion. Despite Shibata occasionally landing flush he wasn't having much effect on Villalfor's rock chin.

Somewhat like Shibata's fight with Victor Echegaray, I thought his periods of inactivity cost him and his less talented opponent got the decision through a greater work rate. Echegaray was another good, though somewhat one dimensional jabber, but he was able to consistently shoot it and score points against an at times listless looking Shibata.

Anyway, my scorecard:

Ben Villaflor vs. Kuniaki Shibata I: 144-145 Villaflor
Shibata: 2,3,4 and 15.
Villaflor: 1,5,8,10,13 and 14.
Rounds 7,9,11 and 12 even.

And just for interest's sake, my Shibata-Echegaray scorecard:

Victor Echegaray vs. Kuniaki Shibata: 144-141 Echegaray
Shibata:1,5,7 and 15 ( 10-7 ).
Echegaray: 2,4,8,9,10,11,12,13 and 14.
Rounds 3 and 6 even.

[WhataRock]

I thought it was pretty close myself. Pedroza gave away too many early rounds and then had a battle on his hands to claw his way back. I thought he edged ahead toward the end and had some big rounds, but Lockridge bravely stole the 15th and the fight ended a draw.

Eusebio Pedroza vs. Rocky Lockridge I: 143-143 Draw
Pedroza: 7,8,9,10,12 and 14( 10-8 ).
Lockridge: 1,2,3,4,5, 11 and 15.
Rounds 6 and 13 even.

I can see someone having it for Pedroza by 2 or 3 points, but 5 points seems rather wide to me WAR.

As I said I could easily see a 2 point swing by giving one of the closer Pedroza rounds, which I believe you did, to Rocky. I think it was the 4th, Im searching frantically for my card but I think I chucked it. And by scoring one of the drawn rounds to him. Im pretty sure I gave the 6th (like you) and one of the earlier rounds drawn.
But I truly feel the commentators and crowd were ignoring good clean work from Pedroza and instead remarking on the aggressiveness of Rocky. Eusebio wasnt scoring the heavier punches but he was scoring more of them and fair bit to the body aswell. I didnt see it as a shutout earlier on but I did feel Rocky was firmly ahead after 6.

I rewatched it just to be sure and I cant see how Rocky deserved a drawn round in the 13th. For reference the pro-Lockridge crowd were scoring in favour of Rocky all night and even clear Pedroza rounds he barely squeaked past in the percentages. For the 13th 46% scored it for Pedroza and only 42% for Rocky, which given the pattern of the night that generally meant a Pedroza round.
Neither fighter did much that was noteworthy. Rocky landed a couple of hard punches later in the round but Pedroza did most of the work, scoring a fair bit to body and getting some light but clean headshots in...moreso then Rocky.

You can see that a 5 point win can tighten up very quickly when you look at it from another perspective but in turn a close points verdict can edge out to fairly comfortable when one person sees a couple of rounds a bit differently.

Thats why I really like this thread.

P.S I scored the last round even actually. If anyone deserved it though it would have been Rocky but I just thought a lot of his shots were made ineffective by Pedroza's defence..a lot were sliding off his shoulder or just grazing him. Rocky put in the bigger effort but I did feel Eusebio gave a great on aswell and again probably outlanded Rocky..making it a difficult round to score when I watched it.

[sweet_scientist]

As I said I could easily see a 2 point swing by giving one of the closer Pedroza rounds, which I believe you did, to Rocky. I think it was the 4th, Im searching frantically for my card but I think I chucked it. And by scoring one of the drawn rounds to him. Im pretty sure I gave the 6th (like you) and one of the earlier rounds drawn.
But I truly feel the commentators and crowd were ignoring good clean work from Pedroza and instead remarking on the aggressiveness of Rocky. Eusebio wasnt scoring the heavier punches but he was scoring more of them and fair bit to the body aswell. I didnt see it as a shutout earlier on but I did feel Rocky was firmly ahead after 6.

I rewatched it just to be sure and I cant see how Rocky deserved a drawn round in the 13th. For reference the pro-Lockridge crowd were scoring in favour of Rocky all night and even clear Pedroza rounds he barely squeaked past in the percentages. For the 13th 46% scored it for Pedroza and only 42% for Rocky, which given the pattern of the night that generally meant a Pedroza round.
Neither fighter did much that was noteworthy. Rocky landed a couple of hard punches later in the round but Pedroza did most of the work, scoring a fair bit to body and getting some light but clean headshots in...moreso then Rocky.

You can see that a 5 point win can tighten up very quickly when you look at it from another perspective but in turn a close points verdict can edge out to fairly comfortable when one person sees a couple of rounds a bit differently.

Thats why I really like this thread.

P.S I scored the last round even actually. If anyone deserved it though it would have been Rocky but I just thought a lot of his shots were made ineffective by Pedroza's defence..a lot were sliding off his shoulder or just grazing him. Rocky put in the bigger effort but I did feel Eusebio gave a great on aswell and again probably outlanded Rocky..making it a difficult round to score when I watched it.

Fair enough WAR. It's been a while since I watched it so I may throw it on later on and give some of the more contentious rounds a look.

The one thing I tend to remember from the fight quite vividly though was that Pedroza was doing quite a bit of slapping with the body punches, landing them with the 'whipping' hand/wrist motion and I think I wasn't really giving those blows full merit even though they were landing. That might have been a key difference of interpretation which may have given me a slightly different perspective to yours as far as the scoring goes.

I actually thought Pedroza gave much better effort in the rematch, but again, I even had that fight close... Have you seen/scored the rematch? interested in your thoughts.

[WhataRock]

Never scored the rematch mate..in fact I saw it before their first encounter and have not seen it since.

I cant even tell you who I thought won because Im pretty I was that at that age where Tito and Tyson is all I could digest.

Also about the slapping punches..that a very good point, though Pedroza was landing more it wasnt of the same quality of Rocky. That being said I still find that Pedroza scores with those shots, not Calzaghe scoring with the finger part of the glove score but he does often turn his hand and land with the knuckle part. Probably not always, I dont look that hard actually but I did notice he had quite an unorthodox way of punching that still really seemed to work.

[sweet_scientist]

Continuing the Eubankian flavour of the thread, I watched and scored Eubank's second fight with Nigel Benn today.

Blatant robbery imo. Eubank's timing was terribly poor and he struggled to hit Benn with a clean shot all night. Benn's timing wasn't immaculate either, but he was slightly more accurate and active for most rounds which was giving him the edge. Nigel Benn was quite good on the defensive end as well, but Eubank's punches were nearly all telegraphed and wide of the mark without the need for Benn to do much in the way of dodging and blocking.

I can possibly see how some would score it close if anything resembling rabbit punches in the clinches weren't counted, but even then, Benn still did the better work on the outside.

My card:
Nigel Benn vs. Chris Eubank II: 116-111 Benn
Eubank: 5,11 and 12.
Benn: 1,2,3,47,8,9 and 10.
Round 6 even ( 9-9 ).

[duranimal]

Just watched the 1st MAB/EM fight again, close indeed, just a few rounds that could have gone either way, anyway here's how i saw it:

..............MAB / EM

1/..............10/9
2/..............10/9
3/..............10/9......Great body shots
4/..............10/10.....possible 9/10 for Eric
5/...............9/10......Great round
6/...............9/10
7/...............9/10
8/..............10/10
9/..............10/9.......JUST
10/..............9/10
11/..............9/10
12/..............10/8......KD was harsh on Eric + he fired right back so poss 10/9

It ended up with 115/114 for MAB for me but just tweek the rounds 4/8/9 & it's Eric's win, the Glen McCrory commentary & scoring was the as per usual CRAP, he had MAB pissing it by 4 clear rounds:lol:

I was shocked at how frail Eric looked, he was like a walking corpse, must have been a nightmare for him to hit the weight. I'll watch the 2nd one this afternoon:smoke

[Mantequilla]

Continuing the Eubankian flavour of the thread, I watched and scored Eubank's second fight with Nigel Benn today.

Blatant robbery imo. Eubank's timing was terribly poor and he struggled to hit Benn with a clean shot all night. Benn's timing wasn't immaculate either, but he was slightly more accurate and active for most rounds which was giving him the edge. Nigel Benn was quite good on the defensive end as well, but Eubank's punches were nearly all telegraphed and wide of the mark without the need for Benn to do much in the way of dodging and blocking.

I can possibly see how some would score it close if anything resembling rabbit punches in the clinches weren't counted, but even then, Benn still did the better work on the outside.

My card:
Nigel Benn vs. Chris Eubank II: 116-111 Benn
Eubank: 5,11 and 12.
Benn: 1,2,3,47,8,9 and 10.
Round 6 even ( 9-9 ).


Have got a few more fights to write up first, but i thought Eubank lost this as well.I only had Benn by a point, but when the fight was finished that felt surprisingly close to me, getting a draw was definitely a best case scenario for Eubank.Main difference in our cards is i had it about even after six, then Benn did his 7,8,9,10 sweep, which was pretty clear.

Benn looked like a poor man's chang in this fight imo epsecially defensively, though as you say eubank was hardly laying a lot of precise shots on him.I'd say this fight was where the weight making really started to impact on Eubank's performances.His next few are awful to score because his offensive timing is usually completly out, but his defence generally remains strong.

[sweet_scientist]

Have got a few more fights to write up first, but i thought Eubank lost this as well.I only had Benn by a point, but when the fight was finished that felt surprisingly close to me, getting a draw was definitely a best case scenario for Eubank.Main difference in our cards is i had it about even after six, then Benn did his 7,8,9,10 sweep, which was pretty clear.

Benn looked like a poor man's chang in this fight imo epsecially defensively, though as you say eubank was hardly laying a lot of precise shots on him.I'd say this fight was where the weight making really started to impact on Eubank's performances.His next few are awful to score because his offensive timing is usually completly out, but his defence generally remains strong.

Rounds 1 and 6 were probably the rounds most gave to Eubank which gave them close cards, but yeah, it's pretty hard to mount a justification for Eubank taking this one.

[IntentionalButt]

Tonight, IB is sinking his teeth into Moorer-Holyfield I.

iwIMTNSLC3A
QhEZvDJlo54

Slow going, doing this at work in between...well, work.

A third through, here we are:

1.

Holyfield - aggressive throughout, made more of an effort to fight a full three-minute round, and did a nice job in varying his attack by alternating leadoff punches in his flurries (most effective when started with the jab),

Moorer - nullified much of Holyfield's offense, but was largely ineffective with his own. Too cautious from outside (thus getting beaten to the punch) and too uncertain on the inside, spending time (and energy) grabbing for traction with his hands instead of letting them go (leading to a stark contrast between his connects and Holyfield's authoritative ones). Most of his best punches in this round are looping shots thrown seemingly in desperation and landing thanks more to Holyfield walking into them than marksmanship.

The pre-Compubox punchstats provided are of dubious merit - wasn't counting myself, but it's hard to swallow Moorer at 39% unless a good number of glove touches are being scored. Moorer landing quantitatively more (but less clean/effective) punches than Holyfield is one thing - but a ten percent gap seems untoward to justify.

The jabbing contest was largely a stalemate, thanks in large part to their opposing stances causing each to be hittable and discouragable with this punch. It reached a point where one trying to be first with his jab would quickly recoil when the other so much as feinted a counter jab of his own. This round was decided on power punching, which was decidedly in favor of Holyfield in terms of efficacy if not accuracy as-tabulated.

1st Round: Holyfield 10-9
Aggregate: Holyfield 10-9

2.

Holyfield - of course has the knockdown, but pretty clearly lost 2:30 leading up to it. He was always in a good position to leverage his punching power, as evidenced by the KD itself, but the price of this was his overall movement being very slow and telegraphed. The dynamic offensive pressure of the previous outing gave way to a far uglier method of wading in with his forearms extended to deflect counter fire, yet he was still getting hit fairly regularly.

Moorer - worked his jab very well and this time won that contest. He won the majority of the round by circling at a good range that allowed him to lean into his shots and retract safely; and by being first more often than not. He was not horribly hurt by the knockdown, though it was a clear and legitimate one. Throughout the last minute his mobility had waned and Holyfield, his feet well set, caught him square in the quicksand. Creditably, Moorer arose and finished off the round well, showing no sign of giving any mental ground and still firmly believing in the work he'd done up until that moment.

After a good deal of soul-searching, I decided to go with my gut right or wrong and score it 10-10. After a good deal less researching (unearthing this recent thread right here on ESB, including a mention of this very round: [Only registered and activated users can see links]) I found that the official judges had done the same.

2nd Round: Even 10-10
Aggregate: Holyfield 20-19

3.

Holyfield - this time was able to pull off the heist with which I didn't let him get away in the 2nd. This was (right-) armed robbery. The same span of time that Moorer had then so convincingly dominated with the initiative and accurate punching was here a relative void, with neither really asserting their will much, taking the initiative, or landing much of noteworthy cleanliness or accuracy. UNTIL...Holyfield begins pumping his right hand in the final moments, and building on its success by throwing it in even greater number and with greater force - thankfully facilitating an otherwise challenging split.

Moorer - continued to show a good jab and boxed fairly well throughout, but was simply outpunched down the stretch.

3rd Round: Holyfield 10-9
Aggregate: Holyfield 30-28

4.

Holyfield - had an eye-catching, judge-wooing flurry in the early goings, pinning Moorer on the ropes with a hard volley and then using his physicality to move the champion around to potentially make further impression on those charged with scoring. These moments would have been more than enough to steal a round like the 3rd (as his succession of right hands in actuality did); however the 4th was not the 3rd...

Moorer - donned his poncho and weathered the tempest, then wrung himself out and went to work. His tenacity and consistency (the gap in his ability to find a target with Evander's now beginning to appear in line with the published stats...) were enough to make one forget who was pinned on the ropes and thrown like a rag doll. For all but those early moments, you'd have to have preferred with conviction to have been Moorer in this round.

4th Round: Moorer 10-9
Aggregate: Holyfield 39-38

[Mantequilla]

Eubank vs Lindell Holmes

Eubank:4,5,8,9,11,12
Holmes:1,2,3
round 6,10 even and round 7 missing

commentators had Eubank winning comfortably.

Not sure if this was is really considered as controversial as a lot of the others, but i remembered it as a close fight so decided to score it.

Holmes in his prime was a fine, underrated fighter and viscous puncher imo.He never really got any breaks and generally flew under the radar, eventualy picking up a title at supermiddle past his prime.A truly embarassing loss bodyshot\exhaustion to mediocre Van Horn, who he didn't seem to have taken at all seriously obviously didn't help him.

Here he was looking to redeem himself and gave a damn fine performance, looking much better than he had in his last few title defences.He was a good boxer-puncher, who at his best reminded me somewhat of a more stocky,flatfooted, bigger punching McGirt.Solid technical skills, decent finesse and doubled all his punches up realy well, especially a terrific double hook.

He started extremely well, beating Euban at his own sneaky countering game for the first 3 rounds.After 6 i thought he looked slighty the better of two, though Eubank was starting to look sharp.

Second half of the fight, his age began to show, as he stopped fighting full rounds, allowing Eubank to seize the intiative and dictate things.Chris seemed to have figured out his style by now as well, scoring nicely with some big counters that had Holmes looking wobbly a few times.

A near sweep of the last six gave Eubank a clear win for me, though if you gave Holmes the even rounds then missing round becomes crucial in salvaging a draw.Despite that, he did continue to fight well in spurts and kept things competitive.

[Mantequilla]

Eubank vs ray Close (1)

Eubank:1,2,3,7,8,9,10,11(10-8 )
Close:4,5,6 12

commentators had Eubank winning by about 4 to 5 points and were very surprised by the draw.A lot of peopel semed to think Eubank needed the knockdown to salvage a draw.

entertaining fight.Close was a decent, if mostly nondescript fighter.tidy, with a good jab and decent fundamentals, but more of a stiff workhorse/labourer than any kind of gifted talent.

Story of the fight was close's workrate and steadyness against Eubank's laziness, much greater physical ability and finesse.

he did switch of and let himself get outworked for a 3 round period, which made things even at the halfway stage, but for the most part i thought Eubank was as sharp as he needed to be, countered well and controlled things.A superb short inside uppercut almost got him a stoppage in the 11th, with close doing well to come back and take the 12th on sheer effort/workrate.

Bad decision imo.

[Mantequilla]

Eubank vs Benn rematch

Eubank:1,3,5,6,12
Benn:4,7,8,9,10,11
round 2 even

Benn had a point deducted for low blows.

Can't remember if the commentators really gave a clear final opinion here.General consensus was for Benn.

A big let down after the classic first fight.Benn fought well, and in a far more controlled, defensively responsible manner than the initial encounter.Eubank was moving well and competent defensively, but couldn't get his punches off at all and the low workrate, poor timing etc that had been hinted at in various earlier fights was now and would continue to be a bigger liability.

I had Eubank in front through 6, but most of the rounds were inconclusive and tough to score;neither fighter getting anythig consistent going offensively.I couldn't argue with anyone having Benn in front by the same margin at this point.

After that Benn started to get to grips with Eubank's D more efectively and Chris did nothing more offensively.A fairly clear trun of rounds for Benn with even a late championship rounds rally by Eubank resulting in a lot more missing than effective punches.

Despite the closeness of my card in terms of rounds, i felt Benn was clearly the better fighter and the only one who won any rounds very clearly.Eubank getting a draw was really a best case scenario for him here, and Benn can legitimately feel ripped off.

That said, it's tough to believe this fight wasn't fixed as a draw was the only result that stopped King getting a piece of either fighter.

[Mantequilla]

Eubank vs Rocchigiani

Eubank:1,2,4,5,6,7,9,10
Rocchigiani:3,8,11,12

commentators had Rocchigiani by a point or two.A lot of people thought Eubank won widely and turned in a masterclass...neither of which take i'd agree with.

Very competitive, often tough to score fight that could vary quite a bit depending on what you go for.Rocky's stiffer jabs and accurate straight shots/combo's thrown in spurts, or Eubank controlling the tempo with a lot of weaker jabs and loads of combo's and bodywork.

For once Eubank was actually the busier, steadier fighter for long periods here.Punch volume and accuracy looked much better than againt Benn.

Rocky is another very solid underrated fighter and looked about two weightclasses bigger than Eubank.He fought like a giant Winky Wright, with more emphasis on letting shots go in spurts rather than steady jabbing, though in other fights he did that too.

Eubank controlled the pace for much of the fight with his movement and an unchraracteristc very busy measuring stick jab that kept Rocky off-balance.Most of his powershots came in the form of combinations to the body and uppercuts through the guard.

Rocky landed some nice shots when he opened up, but did so infrequently and was made to miss as often as he was picking shots off on the gloves/arms.In a way it was a lot like the Thornton fight, only closer and with the german relying on height/reach, rather than pressure to go with the high guard.

[Mantequilla]

Eubank vs Close rematch

Eubank:1,4,5,6,8,10,11,12
Close:2,3,7,9

Commentators had Eubank winning a very close fight i think..or maybe a draw, general opinion was another robbery. Most of the time i don't pay much attention to commentary and have forgotten a lot of their opinions already.Usually i'll score fights with the sound off, but this was the first time i had watched a lot of these fights in a long time, and i was intersted to hear an alternate take as the fights were taking place.

Now this is probably the one where i disagreed the most with them.They saw an epic battle and tremendous effort by Close, akin to the Watson rematch...i saw a crap fight between one fighter(close) who had altered his style to a very specific, mostly conservative jab and move based gameplan, and the other guy who was mostly out of sorts, taking about 8 rounds to get his timing down.

Close might have deserved to win for effort alone, andwith Eubank looking lethargic, it may have caught the eye of many at ringside.Unfortunately for him, he was still being slightly outjabbed in many rounds, and other than the odd right hand he was struggling to break Eubank's D.

Eubank's low workrate and bad timing kept a lot of rounds tight, though his rights to the body and semi-effective jab were usually shading them for me.

Close was reeling around hurt again late, and lost the last few rounds which were decisive for me.It would have served EUbank right in a way if he had lost this fight, but i really don't think it was a genuine robbery.Close simply got nowhere near enough punches through.


Eubank vs Mauricio Amaral

Eubank:2,3,4,5,8,10,11,12
Amaral:6,7,9
Round one even

Commentators had Eubank winning by two or three points, pulling away in the late rounds if i remember correctly.

this fight was much thre same as the Clos rematch for me.Awful stuff that made me question why i had decided to go back and score all Eubank's controversial fights...has any champion had more incidentally?.

Amaral outworked Eubank for most of the fight even though he was fighting in spurts, relying on heavy telegraphed combinations that were mostly taken on the gloves/arms/shoulders or made to miss entirely.

Eubank once again took an age to let his hands go, mostly sticking to the jab and lead right to the body.He did enough to shade a lot of the rounds in the first half imo, but i wouldn't argue too much with anyone thinking the opposite.

Just when it seemed Amaral was going to step it up enough to win the fight circa 7,8,9 and had the commentators worried...Eubank found a high enough workrate to clearly take the remaining rounds, always being the more accurate of the two.

Again, to be honest i wouldn't have moaned had Eubank's bare minimum effort lost him this fight, especially if you place a lot of emphasis on workrate.For me though, Eubank generally still landed the cleaner punches and deserved it round by round.His D was as usual pretty impressive.

[Mantequilla]

Eubank vs Dan Schommer

Eubank:3,7,10
Schommer:4,5,6,8,9,11
rounds 1,3,12 even

Coemmentators had Eubank losing by about 2 to 3 points or so.

This fight basiclaly followed the same pattern for Eubank as his last few controversial ones, only this time his Defence wasn't as tight and he was doing enough to lose most of the rounds by competitive but clear margins.Another awful fight.

Schommer's cagey style frustrated him as well, but really he was one of the worst fighters Eubank defended against and this can only be called an inept effort by Chris.

Clear robbery, if not a massive one on the cards.Me scoring three even rounds is probably too generous to Eubank if anything.Just not a lot happened in a lot of rounds, and it's tough to maintain concentration watching such crap.

[Mantequilla]

Eubank vs Steve Collins

eubank:2,4,6,7,10(10-8 ),11,12
Collins:3,5,8,9
Round one even

Commentators had Eubank losing by a point or two.They gave Collins a ten-eight for his flash bodyshot knockdown of a squared up Eubank which i did not.Tough to say if it was a slip or not, but it was certainly not worthy of a ten eight round imo.

Good entertaining fight.Collins fought well in his usual style and Eubank, though slightly past his best, looked a helluva lot sharper than he had in a lot of his fights since Benn 2.

Lots of very tough, hard to score rounds in what was imo a very even fight up until Eubank knocked Collins down heavily with a sneaky straight right.Collins was generally busier and deceptively accurate at times, but made to miss a lot and countered well by Eubank.

After the knockdown Eubank stayed firmly in command with those last four points over 3 rounds being perhaps the only very clear ones of the fight.

Not sure i would say this was a blatant robbery, but Eubank definitely has a strong case for winning it and i felt he clearly did so.I'd compare it to Conteh getting the decision in the first Saad fight.

[Mantequilla]

and finally:D....Eubank vs Carl Thompson

Eubank:1,2,4(10-8 ),5,6
Thompson:,3,8,9,10,11,12

round 7 even

commentators had thomspon winning by a couple of points.

Great fight,with past prime Eubank up at Cruiser against decent, big punching Thompson.Chris looks a lot sharper and even faster than in his last few years at super middle, indicating a move up to light heavy may have been beneficial a few years earlier, circa Benn 2.

He started very well, showing some excellent counterpunching to build a commanding early lead.His eye had begun to shut from quite early on however; no doubt owing to the far bigger Cat's cruiserweight power, and maybe a few headbuts/elbows during the infighting.

eubank took a serious drawn out beating for most of the second half, even if he was keeping it reasonably competitive.For a smaller fighter he showed awesome punch resistance here.

Ultimately i had it a draw, which would have been a fair result imo.Not sure i could really see Eubank winning, as most of the rounds were easy enough to score.


The second fight was another good one incidentally, and about even on the cards when it was stopped.Eubank should have given his eye far more time to recover.

[IntentionalButt]

Tonight, IB is sinking his teeth into Moorer-Holyfield I.

iwIMTNSLC3A
QhEZvDJlo54

Slow going, doing this at work in between...well, work.

A third through, here we are:

1.

Holyfield - aggressive throughout, made more of an effort to fight a full three-minute round, and did a nice job in varying his attack by alternating leadoff punches in his flurries (most effective when started with the jab),

Moorer - nullified much of Holyfield's offense, but was largely ineffective with his own. Too cautious from outside (thus getting beaten to the punch) and too uncertain on the inside, spending time (and energy) grabbing for traction with his hands instead of letting them go (leading to a stark contrast between his connects and Holyfield's authoritative ones). Most of his best punches in this round are looping shots thrown seemingly in desperation and landing thanks more to Holyfield walking into them than marksmanship.

The pre-Compubox punchstats provided are of dubious merit - wasn't counting myself, but it's hard to swallow Moorer at 39% unless a good number of glove touches are being scored. Moorer landing quantitatively more (but less clean/effective) punches than Holyfield is one thing - but a ten percent gap seems untoward to justify.

The jabbing contest was largely a stalemate, thanks in large part to their opposing stances causing each to be hittable and discouragable with this punch. It reached a point where one trying to be first with his jab would quickly recoil when the other so much as feinted a counter jab of his own. This round was decided on power punching, which was decidedly in favor of Holyfield in terms of efficacy if not accuracy as-tabulated.

1st Round: Holyfield 10-9
Aggregate: Holyfield 10-9

2.

Holyfield - of course has the knockdown, but pretty clearly lost 2:30 leading up to it. He was always in a good position to leverage his punching power, as evidenced by the KD itself, but the price of this was his overall movement being very slow and telegraphed. The dynamic offensive pressure of the previous outing gave way to a far uglier method of wading in with his forearms extended to deflect counter fire, yet he was still getting hit fairly regularly.

Moorer - worked his jab very well and this time won that contest. He won the majority of the round by circling at a good range that allowed him to lean into his shots and retract safely; and by being first more often than not. He was not horribly hurt by the knockdown, though it was a clear and legitimate one. Throughout the last minute his mobility had waned and Holyfield, his feet well set, caught him square in the quicksand. Creditably, Moorer arose and finished off the round well, showing no sign of giving any mental ground and still firmly believing in the work he'd done up until that moment.

After a good deal of soul-searching, I decided to go with my gut right or wrong and score it 10-10. After a good deal less researching (unearthing this recent thread right here on ESB, including a mention of this very round: [Only registered and activated users can see links]) I found that the official judges had done the same.

2nd Round: Even 10-10
Aggregate: Holyfield 20-19

3.

Holyfield - this time was able to pull off the heist with which I didn't let him get away in the 2nd. This was (right-) armed robbery. The same span of time that Moorer had then so convincingly dominated with the initiative and accurate punching was here a relative void, with neither really asserting their will much, taking the initiative, or landing much of noteworthy cleanliness or accuracy. UNTIL...Holyfield begins pumping his right hand in the final moments, and building on its success by throwing it in even greater number and with greater force - thankfully facilitating an otherwise challenging split.

Moorer - continued to show a good jab and boxed fairly well throughout, but was simply outpunched down the stretch.

3rd Round: Holyfield 10-9
Aggregate: Holyfield 30-28

4.

Holyfield - had an eye-catching, judge-wooing flurry in the early goings, pinning Moorer on the ropes with a hard volley and then using his physicality to move the champion around to potentially make further impression on those charged with scoring. These moments would have been more than enough to steal a round like the 3rd (as his succession of right hands in actuality did); however the 4th was not the 3rd...

Moorer - donned his poncho and weathered the tempest, then wrung himself out and went to work. His tenacity and consistency (the gap in his ability to find a target with Evander's now beginning to appear in line with the published stats...) were enough to make one forget who was pinned on the ropes and thrown like a rag doll. For all but those early moments, you'd have to have preferred with conviction to have been Moorer in this round.

4th Round: Moorer 10-9
Aggregate: Holyfield 39-38


Picking up again...next third...

rEx5arpPib8
c81G-QK5MAo

5.

Holyfield - displayed two of his most admirable traits (determination and chin) but none of his others. Got hit repeatedly over the course of the round.

Moorer - utilized his jab to great effect, and rolled away from and under most of Holyfield's return fire.

5th Round: Moorer 10-9
Aggregate: Even 48-48

6.

Holyfield - dramatically lowerd his output, still landing the harder shots overall but throwing them as intermittent singles (occasionally paired). He actually boxed and moved fairly well but was outworked and outlanded. When not retreating he clinched more often than punching. This seemed a round that Holyfield "took off", and Moorer did what was needed to capitalize it and look the better man.

Moorer - looked far sharper, and comfortable throwing in multiples from bell to bell. His frequent connectivity had Holyfield flinching from jab feints by the end of the round, and Moorer here began to shift his concentration to the body without leaving himself open.

6th Round: Moorer 10-9
Aggregate: Moorer 58-57

7.

Holyfield - came out strong with a two-fisted attack and did not give Moorer room or time to breathe, simply mauling him when his gloves weren't arriving in rapid succession from both sides.

Moorer - tried to continue to "be first" but was forced to back straight up by the stronger Holyfield. He wisely did his best to avoid taking more than a few of these hard shots at a time. This, in stark contrast to the 6th, seemed a round that Moorer himself "took off", and Holyfield did what was needed to capitalize it and look the better man.

7th Round: 10-9 Holyfield
Aggregate: Even 67-67

8.

Holyfield - was unable to maintain his assault, or even resume it. He continued to press forward and tried to pick off shots with his crossed forearms but his head was snapped back numerous times.

Moorer - simply looked fresher, and once again in control, and finally began to look comfortable on the inside, moving his hands and pushing Holyfield off.

8th Round: 10-9 Moorer
Aggregate: 77-76 Moorer

[Addie]

Julio Cesar Chavez vs Edwin Rosario
Julio Cesar Chavez vs Hector Camacho
Julio Cesar Chavez vs Roger Mayweather II

...Scorecards not neccesary.

[sweet_scientist]

Great stuff Mante. :good

[natonic]

Holmes TKO 11 Shavers. 2nd fight. One of the most enjoyable near shutouts I've watched. I could only give Shavers the 7th round where he laid Holmes out. We've seen this before with Holmes. Love him or hate him the guy has heart and great recuperative powers. This is 1979 and prime Holmes. Damn great fighter. Shavers was dangerous throughout.

[essexboy]

Just watched the 1st MAB/EM fight again, close indeed, just a few rounds that could have gone either way, anyway here's how i saw it:

..............MAB / EM

1/..............10/9
2/..............10/9
3/..............10/9......Great body shots
4/..............10/10.....possible 9/10 for Eric
5/...............9/10......Great round
6/...............9/10
7/...............9/10
8/..............10/10
9/..............10/9.......JUST
10/..............9/10
11/..............9/10
12/..............10/8......KD was harsh on Eric + he fired right back so poss 10/9

It ended up with 115/114 for MAB for me but just tweek the rounds 4/8/9 & it's Eric's win, the Glen McCrory commentary & scoring was the as per usual CRAP, he had MAB pissing it by 4 clear rounds:lol:

I was shocked at how frail Eric looked, he was like a walking corpse, must have been a nightmare for him to hit the weight. I'll watch the 2nd one this afternoon:smoke

I've scored this differently nearly every time but that happens with closely fought battles like this so I'll stick to my original scorecard.

1: Barrera 10-9
2: Barrera 10-9
3: Barrera 10-9
4: Barrera 10-9
5: Morales 10-9
6: Morales 10-9
7: Morales 10-9
8: Barrera 10-9
9: Even 10-10
10: Morales 10-9
11: Barrera 10-9
12: Barrera 10-8 (Morales unlucky with the KD)

116-112 Barrera

Barrera was superb in this fight, the thing I notice is how often Morales was really hurt, it happened a few times at the end of the round with Morales saved by the bell. Barrera's body punching was just vicious and he gave a masterclass in how to box on the inside. It was a good exciting fight but one I felt Barrera won without doubt, he was really robbed for me. Then again I had Morales winning the rematch 115-113. Sad to say my scoring must be as crap as McCrory's. :lol:

[IntentionalButt]

Tonight, IB is sinking his teeth into Moorer-Holyfield I.

iwIMTNSLC3A
QhEZvDJlo54

Slow going, doing this at work in between...well, work.

A third through, here we are:

1.

Holyfield - aggressive throughout, made more of an effort to fight a full three-minute round, and did a nice job in varying his attack by alternating leadoff punches in his flurries (most effective when started with the jab),

Moorer - nullified much of Holyfield's offense, but was largely ineffective with his own. Too cautious from outside (thus getting beaten to the punch) and too uncertain on the inside, spending time (and energy) grabbing for traction with his hands instead of letting them go (leading to a stark contrast between his connects and Holyfield's authoritative ones). Most of his best punches in this round are looping shots thrown seemingly in desperation and landing thanks more to Holyfield walking into them than marksmanship.

The pre-Compubox punchstats provided are of dubious merit - wasn't counting myself, but it's hard to swallow Moorer at 39% unless a good number of glove touches are being scored. Moorer landing quantitatively more (but less clean/effective) punches than Holyfield is one thing - but a ten percent gap seems untoward to justify.

The jabbing contest was largely a stalemate, thanks in large part to their opposing stances causing each to be hittable and discouragable with this punch. It reached a point where one trying to be first with his jab would quickly recoil when the other so much as feinted a counter jab of his own. This round was decided on power punching, which was decidedly in favor of Holyfield in terms of efficacy if not accuracy as-tabulated.

1st Round: Holyfield 10-9
Aggregate: Holyfield 10-9

2.

Holyfield - of course has the knockdown, but pretty clearly lost 2:30 leading up to it. He was always in a good position to leverage his punching power, as evidenced by the KD itself, but the price of this was his overall movement being very slow and telegraphed. The dynamic offensive pressure of the previous outing gave way to a far uglier method of wading in with his forearms extended to deflect counter fire, yet he was still getting hit fairly regularly.

Moorer - worked his jab very well and this time won that contest. He won the majority of the round by circling at a good range that allowed him to lean into his shots and retract safely; and by being first more often than not. He was not horribly hurt by the knockdown, though it was a clear and legitimate one. Throughout the last minute his mobility had waned and Holyfield, his feet well set, caught him square in the quicksand. Creditably, Moorer arose and finished off the round well, showing no sign of giving any mental ground and still firmly believing in the work he'd done up until that moment.

After a good deal of soul-searching, I decided to go with my gut right or wrong and score it 10-10. After a good deal less researching (unearthing this recent thread right here on ESB, including a mention of this very round: [Only registered and activated users can see links]) I found that the official judges had done the same.

2nd Round: Even 10-10
Aggregate: Holyfield 20-19

3.

Holyfield - this time was able to pull off the heist with which I didn't let him get away in the 2nd. This was (right-) armed robbery. The same span of time that Moorer had then so convincingly dominated with the initiative and accurate punching was here a relative void, with neither really asserting their will much, taking the initiative, or landing much of noteworthy cleanliness or accuracy. UNTIL...Holyfield begins pumping his right hand in the final moments, and building on its success by throwing it in even greater number and with greater force - thankfully facilitating an otherwise challenging split.

Moorer - continued to show a good jab and boxed fairly well throughout, but was simply outpunched down the stretch.

3rd Round: Holyfield 10-9
Aggregate: Holyfield 30-28

4.

Holyfield - had an eye-catching, judge-wooing flurry in the early goings, pinning Moorer on the ropes with a hard volley and then using his physicality to move the champion around to potentially make further impression on those charged with scoring. These moments would have been more than enough to steal a round like the 3rd (as his succession of right hands in actuality did); however the 4th was not the 3rd...

Moorer - donned his poncho and weathered the tempest, then wrung himself out and went to work. His tenacity and consistency (the gap in his ability to find a target with Evander's now beginning to appear in line with the published stats...) were enough to make one forget who was pinned on the ropes and thrown like a rag doll. For all but those early moments, you'd have to have preferred with conviction to have been Moorer in this round.

4th Round: Moorer 10-9
Aggregate: Holyfield 39-38

Picking up again...next third...

rEx5arpPib8
c81G-QK5MAo

5.

Holyfield - displayed two of his most admirable traits (determination and chin) but none of his others. Got hit repeatedly over the course of the round.

Moorer - utilized his jab to great effect, and rolled away from and under most of Holyfield's return fire.

5th Round: Moorer 10-9
Aggregate: Even 48-48

6.

Holyfield - dramatically lowerd his output, still landing the harder shots overall but throwing them as intermittent singles (occasionally paired). He actually boxed and moved fairly well but was outworked and outlanded. When not retreating he clinched more often than punching. This seemed a round that Holyfield "took off", and Moorer did what was needed to capitalize it and look the better man.

Moorer - looked far sharper, and comfortable throwing in multiples from bell to bell. His frequent connectivity had Holyfield flinching from jab feints by the end of the round, and Moorer here began to shift his concentration to the body without leaving himself open.

6th Round: Moorer 10-9
Aggregate: Moorer 58-57

7.

Holyfield - came out strong with a two-fisted attack and did not give Moorer room or time to breathe, simply mauling him when his gloves weren't arriving in rapid succession from both sides.

Moorer - tried to continue to "be first" but was forced to back straight up by the stronger Holyfield. He wisely did his best to avoid taking more than a few of these hard shots at a time. This, in stark contrast to the 6th, seemed a round that Moorer himself "took off", and Holyfield did what was needed to capitalize it and look the better man.

7th Round: 10-9 Holyfield
Aggregate: Even 67-67

8.

Holyfield - was unable to maintain his assault, or even resume it. He continued to press forward and tried to pick off shots with his crossed forearms but his head was snapped back numerous times.

Moorer - simply looked fresher, and once again in control, and finally began to look comfortable on the inside, moving his hands and pushing Holyfield off.

8th Round: 10-9 Moorer
Aggregate: 77-76 Moorer

Finally...

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9.

Holyfield - came out in familiar fashion: stronger and more aggressive, but throwing wider and slower.

Moorer - threw largely down the middle, landing a bit better despite some questionable tallies shown to TV audiences. His blows were cleaner but less damaging.

Between the 9th and 10th round is the first time in the entire fight I turned the volume up from mute, and Atlas berating his man over a round I thought he won was absolutely shocking. Instead of giving tactical advice he was just an asshole.

9th Round: 10-9 Moorer
Aggregate: 87-85 Moorer

10.

Holyfield - came on especially strong in the last minute but still not landing especially well.

Moorer - backed Holyfield up to the ropes momentarily about a minute in with a good 1-2 previously collecting dust, and boxed and turned Holyfield well for the duration of the round. I give Moorer credit here for an improved performance and clearer win in this round than the 9th in spite of - not because of - Atlas' coaching.

10th Round: 10-9 Moorer
Aggregate: 97-94 Moorer

11.

Holyfield - just absolutely smothered Moorer this round. He didn't throw many of them, but he unveiled an uppercut that almost couldn't miss, and struck with authority when it landed.

Moorer - mounted little counter-offense while under constant siege beyond jabbing often but too lightly to be taken seriously.

11th Round: 10-9 Holyfield
Aggregate: 106-104 Moorer

12.

Holyfield - was still able to impose his musculature and drive Moorer to the roped perimeter, but lacked the wind to keep him there, clearly fatigued.

Moorer - in contrast, looked focused and willing to win the championship more in this round than any previous. The "bounce is back" - the bounce-back of Holyfield's head from Moorer's newly recrispened jab, that is. Moorer fought hard, and fought until the bell.

12th Round: 10-9 Moorer
Aggregate: 116-113 Moorer

Lederman: 114-113 Holyfield

Official judges
Shirley: Even 114-114
Giampa: 116-112 Moorer
Roth: 115-114 Moorer

George Foreman gave Holyfield the 12th. :lol:

No room for controversy as far as who got the nod, IMO. There were a couple of close rounds but many clear ones - and even throwing one or two of the swing chapters Holyfield's way it still pans out tight for Moorer or a draw. This of course assumes correct scoring of the knockdown round, which Holyfield lost but for the knockdown...

[WhataRock]

I thought it was pretty close myself. Pedroza gave away too many early rounds and then had a battle on his hands to claw his way back. I thought he edged ahead toward the end and had some big rounds, but Lockridge bravely stole the 15th and the fight ended a draw.

Eusebio Pedroza vs. Rocky Lockridge I: 143-143 Draw
Pedroza: 7,8,9,10,12 and 14( 10-8 ).
Lockridge: 1,2,3,4,5, 11 and 15.
Rounds 6 and 13 even.

I can see someone having it for Pedroza by 2 or 3 points, but 5 points seems rather wide to me WAR.


Found my card sweet...a tad different to what I remember but here it is.

Pedroza-Lockridge I - 146-141

Pedroza: 4,6,8,9,10,11,12,13,14
Lockridge: 1,2,5,7,
Rounds 3 and 15 Even

Could easily see the 3rd, 4th and 15th (on reflection I should have given the last to him) for Rocky but felt that Pedroza did some very good work himself.

Perhaps the final score is not indicative of the closeness of the the bout but Ive got to score each round on their own and I thought Pedroza just edged some of the more contentious ones, and had a big second half of the fight.

The whole fight the commentators were very bias against Pedroza.

[Maxmomer]

Do they have to be fights I watched today? Because I've watched a lot of good fights lately, just not right this day. Here's a list and some thoughts

Sergio Martinez v. Adrian Stone
Martinez pitched a shut-out. Mesmerizing and highly entertaining performance. Adrian Stone was at the end of his career but he had been good enough to step into the ring against Vernon Forrest and Shane Mosley prior to this fight. Martinez foot movement and hand speed are sights to behold.

Sergio Martinez v. Alex Bunema
Another electric and entertaining performance by Martinez.

Sergio Martinez v. Vasile Surcica
Surcica was a nobody, but he managed to go the distance. Martinez failed to impress in this fight.

Sergio Martinez v. Russell Jordan
Fairly entertaining. Jordan was another tomato can. I think it was stopped a bit prematurely.

Sergio Martinez v. Kermit Cintron
2nd viewing. A pretty ugly fight. I had Martinez winning clearly. I gave Cintron two rounds, plus one more for a BS point deduction. Cintron should have lost on three separate occasions. Terrible robbery.

Sergio Martinez v. Paul Williams
Great, great fight. Both guys showed a lot of heart and determination. I was especially impressed by Martinez defense, he was able to nullify a lot of Williams aggression and his workrate. I had Martinez by 116-113 based on more effective punching, accuracy and defense.

Shane Mosley v. Wilfredo Rivera
Exciting at times, frustrating at others. It was a tough, close battle. Shane looked winded through rounds 8 and 9 (possibly due to it being his first fight at a new weightclass?) and even though I wasn't keeping score I might have had him losing the fight if he lost the tenth. Fortunately for him his was able to dig deep to pull off one of his patented late round rallies and beat the shit out of Rivera throughout the 10th before knocking him senseless with a left uppercut. Prime Mosley's speed was awe-inspiring, and his defense looked sharp at times here, moreso than usual anyway.

Roberto Duran v. Pipino Cuevas
A short but entertaining fight. Roberto just had too much chin and skill for Pipino, while Cuevas' own chin failed him. A good win for Duran.

Roberto Duran v. Ray Leonard
One of the most exciting fights of all time. A bruising inside battle. Roberto's inside fighting skills were probably the best ever seen. Duran took Leonard's legs out from under him and swept the majority of the first 10 rounds.

[Addie]

1: Barrera 10-9

Excellent, exciting first round of action. Barrera starts really fast, unleashing three punch combinations, and owning the first half of the round with Morales being a little shell shocked at what's coming at him. Morales does well during the second half of the round, making Barrera miss more and landing some right hands and jabs of his own. Cleaner shots landed by Barrera.

2: Barrera 10-9

One of the clearest rounds of the fight, domination on the part of Marco, who on three separate occasions in the round lands the jab, right hand, left uppercut combination. All the uppercuts land flush and had. Morales rallies mid way through, only to be met with another three punch combination and a straight right hand which sends Morales into the ropes.


3: Barrera 10-9

Starts off a little quieter, with the action picking up in the final 45 seconds with two way exchanges. Barrers backs Morales on the ropes with multiple flurries, and also gets some good body work done in the center of the ring. Close round but I think Marco did enough.

4: Morales 10-9

Morales best round of the fight so far, if only because Marco slowed down on his attack a little more.

5: Morales 10-9

Tremendous round of Boxing. Barrera opens up the round with a right hand that backs Morales up. Morales then pours on the pressure with flurries, multiple right hands finding its target, just when Marco looks ready to go he strafes Morales with two right hands and left hook which sends him to the ropes once again. A big left hand ends the round for Marco, but I give it to Morales for dominating the majority.

6: Morales 10-9

Slowest round of the fight, starts with a big right hand from Barrera but the rest of the round is quite uneventful with Morales work rate bringing the round home for Erik.

7: Barrera 10-9

Another tremendous round, littered with exchanges. Most of the round is controlled by Erik, who unleashes a fury of shots near the ropes which seems to trouble Marco on the inside. Work rate belongs to Erik, but the two most effective shots in the round are landed by Barrera. A big right hand on the end of a jab sends him to the ropes again, and in the last 10 seconds an insane exchange see's Barrera land three hard hooks flush. Morales almost goes down and out, but then recovers and throws back. An epic moment in an epic fight.

8: Barrera 10-9

The pace just doesn't let up, Barrera and Morales come out firing with Erik looking to make Barrera uncomfortable with movement. The biggest shots are against landed by Barrera, a one-two combination and a series of left hooks that...once again...sends Erik to the ropes who looks stunned. Morales fires back but most of his shots are being blocked. The round finishes with another epic exchange with Barrera banging to the body and then coming up stairs, landing a solid flush right hand to Morales jaw. He doesn't stop, go down, or hold, he fires back and the crowd go wild.

9: Barrera 10-9

Another amazing round. The round starts off with a three punch combination on the part of Barrera, Morales retreats to the corner hurt. He then gets pinned on the ropes and Barrera lands a series of shots which seem to both Morales, who fires back. For the rest of the round barrera looks tired, Morales just doesn't stop throwing, landing right hands and jabs. Barrera seems to be out of range. 10 seconds left, I'm about to give the round to Morales on activity, and then BOOM! A flush three punch combination lands for Marco, Morales badly hurt stumbles into the corner. ...Morales hurt three times in the round, Barrera wins on inflicting more damage.

10: Morales 10-9

Both are tiring. Morales wins on work rate, but they both land solid shots.

11: Barrera 10-9

Close round, pace has slowed.

12: Barrera 10-8 (Morales unlucky with the KD)

Was a bullshit knockdown but Barrera came out firing to the body, and later hurt Morales with a double left hook which seen him stumble to the corner.

8-4 Barrera.

I can see arguments for Rounds 1, 7, and 9 being scored for Morales. That's why this is the greatest fight of all time in my humble opinion.

[Maxmomer]

I just now watched Shane Mosley v. Luis Collazo. Good fight. Entertaining. I gave Collazo two rounds.

[itrymariti]

I just now watched Shane Mosley v. Luis Collazo. Good fight. Entertaining. I gave Collazo two rounds.

:lol:

[IntentionalButt]

:lol:

Why is that funny? :huh Certainly not unreasonable, two judges did the same...is it that you didn't think Collazo won any rounds?

[atberry]

Eubank vs Dan Schommer

Eubank:3,7,10
Schommer:4,5,6,8,9,11
rounds 1,3,12 even

Coemmentators had Eubank losing by about 2 to 3 points or so.

This fight basiclaly followed the same pattern for Eubank as his last few controversial ones, only this time his Defence wasn't as tight and he was doing enough to lose most of the rounds by competitive but clear margins.Another awful fight.

Schommer's cagey style frustrated him as well, but really he was one of the worst fighters Eubank defended against and this can only be called an inept effort by Chris.

Clear robbery, if not a massive one on the cards.Me scoring three even rounds is probably too generous to Eubank if anything.Just not a lot happened in a lot of rounds, and it's tough to maintain concentration watching such crap.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[MW159]

Alexis Arguello-Ray Mancini


Round 1- Feeling out round, neither man really landed anything significant but Mancini threw and landed a few more.


Rd.1 10-9 Mancini


Round 2- Both men start to mix it up more, both men working the jab fairly effectively, Mancini throwing hooks to the head and the body while Arguello is looking to counter inside of those hooks with partial success. Close round.


Rd.2 10-9 Mancini


Round 3- Mancini being more active and backing Arguello up. Arguello landing good shots occasionally but they are few and far between.


Rd.3 10-9 Mancini


Round 4- Both men mix it up at the beginning of the round, Arguello's jab and body shots landing better. Mancini backs Arguello up against the ropes and flurries to the body. Most of the round close but Arguello lands the more quality shots.


Rd.4 10-9 Arguello


Round 5- Arguello heating up and landing more shots early. Mancini lands a good flurry and later a good right-left hook combo. Mancini lands a good right and backs him up with a flurry and they slug it out for the remainder of the round with Mancini getting the better of it.


Rd.5 10-9 Mancini


Round 6- Both men circling and trading shots, big right hand from Arguello with one returned by Mancini which stuns Arguello momentarily Mancini more effectively pressuring Arguello and lands some eye catching shots. Both men starting to look beaten up but Arguello is getting the worst of it.


Rd.6 10-9 Mancini


Round 7- Arguello jabbing more effectively, Mancini not as aggressive as the previous rounds. Neither man landing anything signifacant but Arguello controlling the pace. Mancini lands a good flurry. Arguello controls to the end of the round.


Rd.7 10-9 Arguello


Round 8- Not a lot of action this round, neither man landing much. Arguello starts backing Mancini up and lands a few good shots to the head and body.


Rd.8 10-9 Arguello






Round 9- Arguello looking sharp, lands a good three punch combination. Arguello's jab landing well while most of Mancini's shots come up short. Mancini tries to rally but Arguello matches him punch for punch and was landing the cleaner shots.


Rd.9 10-9 Arguello


Round 10- Mancini trying to be more aggressive, Arguello returning more effectively. Mancini cut on the corner of his left eye. Close round but Arguello was more effective.


Rd.10 10-9 Arguello


Round 11- Both men circling and jabbing, neither man landing too many of their powershots. Arguello starts landing more at the last minute of the round.


Rd.11 10-9 Arguello


Round 12- Fairly even round with both men doing good work. Arguello lands a good right and backs Mancini up. Arguello starts landng big shots at the end of the round and right at the end he hits Mancini with a big right that puts him out on his feet.


Rd.12 10-9 Arguello


Round 13- Arguello coming out more aggressively landing good shots to the head and body. Mancini giving ground and jabbing. Arguello lands another good right hand. Arguello starts a right hand rally landing three in a row and Mancini is on unsteady legs. Arguello turns up the pressure a little more landing hooks off of the jab. Mancini bleeding from a cut inside of his mouth.


Rd.13 10-9 Arguello


Round 14- Arguello comes out looking for a big shot to put Mancini away. Mancini tries to rally but Arguello shuts him down with a 1-2. Arguello lands a big left hook, right uppercut to the body, two more left hooks and a right puts Mancini down and the ref calls it off.




Scoring through thirteen I had it Arguello-8, Mancini-5.

[MW159]

Clifford Etienne-Frans Botha


Round 1- Botha doing good 1-2's in and out, Etienne going in swinging and the clinching. Good action and a close round but Botha got the better of it.


Rd.1 10-9 Botha


Round 2- Etienne puts some good pressure on in this round, Botha tries to box but is not too effective.


Rd.2 10-9 Etienne


Round 3- Botha comes out and takes the fight to Etienne landing some right hands, pace slows down in the middle of the round and it is mostly one punch at a time. Etienne throws a good flurry at the end of the round.


Rd.3 10-9 Botha


Round 4- Etienne comes out pressuring, Botha throwing back and landing decently but is generally outworked through the round. Etienne lands a big right at the end of the round.


Rd.4 10-9 Etienne


Round 5- Etienne backing up Botha with the jab and landing some hard shots throughout most of the round until Botha lands a big right that hurts Etienne badly and puts him down with an uppercut. Etienne on wobbly legs for the rest of the round.


Rd.5 10-8 Botha


Round 6- Etienne comes out strong and lands some wild hooks, Botha lands a glancing right as Etienne comes in and it looks like a slip (though in the replay it shows him wobble) but is called a knockdown.


Rd.6 10-8 Botha


Round 7- Etienne dancing and leaping in with left hooks, lands a good left-right combo that snaps Botha's head back. Etienne gets Botha along the ropes and does a small rally.


Rd.7 10-9 Etienne


Round 8- Slow round for the most part, Etienne lands a big counter right that hurts Botha and he bores into him for the rest of the round. The bell rings and Etienne hits Botha after and hurts him badly and he gets an extra minute or so to recover because the ref was made aware of the mistake which is as Jim Gray notes against the rules.


Rd.8 10-9 Etienne


Round 9- Etienne comes out and hurts Botha again and swarms on him but Botha recovers and for the rest of the round lands some good rights that wobble Etienne slightly each time but it was very close.


Rd.9 10-9 Botha
Round 10- Real close round, neither man landed anything signifacant but I think Etienne landed a few more shots.


Rd.10 10-9 Etienne


I scored it 95-93 for Botha.

[Frazier Hook]

Ali vs Frazier 1. Seen this about a million times. What a true war! Love this fight!

[MW159]

Leonard Dorin vs Paul Spadafora


Round 1- Close round, Dorin bulling in and landing some good shots upstairs but Spadafora is fighting well circling, jabbing and hooking. Real good exchange at the end of the round with no man gaining a real advantage.


Rd.1 10-9 Spadafora


Round 2- Very busy round for both men, Dorin getting on the inside more effectively and is very accurate with his punches while most of the return fire from Spadafora is caught on the arms and gloves.


Rd.2 10-9 Dorin


Round 3- Very close round, for the first minute Spadafora landed quite a few jabs and bodyshots but then Dorin comes on and starts jolting Spadafora with right hooks for the rest of the round and turns up the pressure backing Spadafora up well


Rd.3 10-9 Dorin


Round 4- Spadafora getting backed up in this round and trying to trade with Dorin but is getting caught with punches when he throws his own punches and the ones he lands Dorin just walks through.


Rd.4 10-9 Dorin


Round 5- Close round but Paul boxed better using angles and working his right hand well while Dorin didn't throw as many punches in this round as he had in the preceding rounds.


Rd.5 10-9 Spadafora


Round 6- Spadafora still using his defense and boxing skill well to mislead Dorin. Dorin starts to fight on his toes at the end of the round and is a little more effective when leaping in with his punches. Dorin lands a big right hand at the end of the round which wobbles Spadafora.


Rd.6 10-9 Spadafora


Round 7- Dorin seems reinvigorated in this round, he is getting on the inside and landing 4-5 punch combos as well as doing some good bodywork. Spadafora not moving as much and he is not landing the shots he was landing in the previous rounds.


Rd.7 10-9 Dorin


Round 8- Close round, neither man fighting with as much as intensity as rounds previous (alebeit they both threw around 75 punches in this round). The one thing Dorin is doing well is catching Spadafora when he backs straight up.


Rd.8 10-9 Dorin




Round 9- Good round for Spadafora, he is landing combinations and getting out of the way of the punches thrown back from Dorin. Dorin tries to come back later in the round but Spadafora makes him miss beautifully.


Rd.9 10-9 Spadafora


Round 10- Dorin being more aggressive in this round, working his way inside behind his jab and landing flurries. Spadafora landing punches himself but is getting outworked and his legs look weak at this stage.


Rd.10 10-9 Dorin


Round 11- Very close round, Spadafora's legs look stronger in this round and he has success boxing for the first minute but Dorin makes the adjustment and starts bouncing on his toes landing lead rightys and flurries to the body.


Rd.11 10-9 Dorin


Round 12- Excellent round, a lot of action and activity from both men but I think Dorin landed the better, cleaner punches in this round.


Rd.12 Dorin


Final score Dorin-8, Spadafora-4


This was an excellent war, lots of blood and a lot of punches thrown and landed.

[Maxmomer]

Shane Mosley - Vernon Forrest I
Shane got two, maybe three rounds. Viscous second round, Mosley has some intense survival instinct. Forrest was sharp. Not very entertaining.

Shane Mosley - Vernon Forrest II
What a shit ugly clinch-fest this fight was. There was so much clinching and so little fighting that I can see people's scores for this fight varying wildly. 115-113 for Forrest.

Bernard Hopkins - Felix Trinidad
Tito won just a single round, but it was still a lively and competitive fight to a certain extent. Bernard Hopkins put on a clinic and looked great doing it.

[Frazier Hook]

David Tua vs Ruiz, Izon, and Rahman 1.

Vintage David Tua. What a puncher.......

[Mantequilla]

Kalule vs Masashi Kudo

a complete shutout and a fairly dull fight.Kudo was an ordinary champion at best, fighting like a poor man's Corro/Serrano hybrid...totally safety-first and only ever commiting to a sneaky potshotting lead right hand, which was his only good offensive weapon.

Kalule stalked him throughout, using excellent canizales/Arbachakov-esque footwork and quality one-two's to control things, then sliding in and out at angles with three and four punch combo's when Kudo tried to potshot him.


Kalule vs Marijan Benes

This was a much more entertaining and at times quite competitive fight, even though i doubt Benes won more than 3 or 4 rounds.

Benes was a decent fighter with a bizarre style that was like part Galindez, part Tonna/Roldan and part complete technical incompetence.

He would try and do a Galindez jab and trap setting routine for part of most rounds, then lose patience and hurl himself forward like a maniac, wide open throwing ridiculously telegraphed unpredictable bombs one after the other.

This usually resulted in him getting his head jabbed in and repeatedly countered with every punch in the book.However, Kalule's lack of power meant he just kept coming, entirely undiscouraged and when he did land was able to have some success pushing Kalule on the defensive, even if he was only getting one shot in every five or so through.

kalule,perhaps starting to struggle with the weight at ths time, slowed later and got caught with a massive hook in the 14th that had him badly rocked, though he kept composure and saw the round out without too much further trouble.

[GPater11093]

Zapata vs Rudy Crawford

Zapata: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,11,12,13,14,15
Crawford: 8 KD'D 6
Total: 149-135 Zapata (14-1)

Excellant performance. Kind of a role reversal early in the fight as Crawford circled away from Zapata but Zapata cut the ring off expertly and applied pressure behind his solid jab. He started upping it with sharp combinations and dropped Crawford with a beautiful combo in the 6th. Crawford changed his strategy and started to land some flurries but Zapata kept cool and dealt with him. Even in the exchanges Zapata kept cool made Crawford miss and landed his own sharp counters.

In the 8th Crawford just seemed to land afew good flurries and kept Zapata honest. After about the 10th Zapata slowed his workrate and wasnt as eager as he was in the first 10 rounds as his work rate dropped and he started forgetting his jab but he still stayed in controll. And one a good but one sided fight.

[Maxmomer]

Shane Mosley-Winky Wright I
117-111 for Winky. Gave Mosley the 5th, 6th and 12th.

Shane Mosley-Winky Wright II
A really good fight. Quite entertaining. Winky did what he did in the first fight, but Mosley improved quite a bit. More movement, more combinations, higher work-rate. A think the 114-114 score was generous, but I agree with the other two judges and their scoring of 115-113 for Wright.

[thejokerswild]

Katsidis - Casamayor
I forgot how brutal this was(about an 8.7), I had Katsidis winning by 1 until he got KOed.

Theres no way katsidis could of done that to Marquez.

Mayweather - Corrales.
All to Mayweather

Barrera - Hamed
I didn't write down scores or anything but Hamed was definitely down most of the great eventful fight. I was impressed by his courage though, even braving the last heroic onslaught by the brutal mexican. When the fight was done, he didn't seem that defeated either but we know looking back that barerra finished Hameds career.

[BlueApollo]

Hearns - Cuevas

One word. Damn.

Anyone who thinks Floyd could have dealt with this Tommy Hearns should be taken out behind a shed somewhere and disciplined with a birch switch.

[itrymariti]

Why is that funny? :huh Certainly not unreasonable, two judges did the same...is it that you didn't think Collazo won any rounds?

No, just laughing at how one-sided the fight was...

Feel like a bit of a wanker now. (:lol:)

[cubex]

Castillo-Johnston II

The tape I have of the fight is missing 2 rounds(4 and 5) so I only scored the 10 rounds I had.

Had it 6-4 for Johnston in a very closely contested fight.Johnston stood on the inside most the time with Castillo rarely going on the outside.

[Maxmomer]

Shane Mosley - John John Molina
I gave Mosley every round.

Shane Mosley - Jesse James Leija
I gave Leija 2 rounds.

Shane Mosley - Golden Johnson
Mosley every round

Shane Mosley - Demetrio Ceballos
Mosley every round.

Shane Mosley - Wilfredo Ruiz
Mosley every round.

I recently received a Shane Mosley career set on DVD, in case anyone was curious. Also Hopkins.

[Flea Man]

Watched Holyfield vs Foreman, Tillis, De Leon, Douglas, Cooper, and some Irish sounding guy that he destroyed.

More to watch tomorrow. Am not gonna' fall into the same trap as I did today and watch some favourites, gonna' plow through all I haven't seen.

[zadfrak]

Seamus Mcdonough, if memory serves correct. I really enjoy those early Holyfield bouts at cruiser and DeLeon did a lot just to stay in the ring with the guy. When you watch those Holyfield bouts in sequence, you can see the activity level and volumes of combos go downhill like about every 2.5 years.

[Maxmomer]

Shane Mosley - Miguel Cotto
The first time I scored this fight it was 115-113 for Cotto. Last time it was 114-114. This time I scored it 115-113 for Mosley. I have no idea why Cotto was running the last two rounds. He couldn't have thought he was that far ahead on the cards.

[RDJ]

Rewatched a few fights from the past few months:

Denis Boytsov vs. Jason Gavern - Funny fight with hilarious showboating.
Jean Pascal vs. Adrian Diaconu - Epic battle.

[Rise Above]

Just rewatched Rose vs Harada. I scored the fight 8-6 to Rose with one round even.

Great fight with Harada putting alot of pressure on Rose and working the body alot. Rose showing great footwork and countering beautifully.

[natonic]

Duran - Dejesus II. I have this fight somewhere but just watched it on Youtube (thanks Addie). Dejesus is a true badass for having knocked Duran twice in there series. I think Dejesus could've been a top 40 ATG if not for the great Duran.

I gave Dejesus the first 2 rounds (10-8 in the 1st with the knockdown). I gave Duran the rest of the rounds. The 5th round was close (gave it to Duran). 10-8 for Duran in 7th due to a knockdown.

This is a great performance by Duran. Dejesus looked really sharp but Duran was just better. Dejesus had success with the left hook against Duran but maybe violated the rule "don't hook with a hooker". After the first 2 rounds Duran's hook was getting there quicker and stronger. Dejesus often hooked with no setup and Duran figured that out after a few rounds.

sidenote: I believe the referee is the same who had the horrendous stoppage in the Duran - Marcel fight. I didn't notice him much in this fight, as it should be.

[Flea Man]

Watched Harada vs Turner all the way through.

I'm about to go to bed so won't post my thoughts. Would take me all day to encapsulate how good a fight it is. Just reaffirms how good I think Gavilan was. Awesome fight, am interested in Turner now, have two more of his fights to watch :good

Watched Louis vs Carnera. Was surprised as I've only seen bits of the Sharkey and Baer figths but even accounting for the sped-up nature of old celluloid he looks fairly fast and capable. Good in fact.

Strange, as he showed immense heart in the Baer match (did he really break his ankle?!?!? Multiple knockdowns from a savage puncher nonetheless) but here Louis drops him three times and Carnera wants none of it.

Was it because Carnera had had enough? End of his career? I can't be arsed to find out. I'll hedge a bet its because Joe Louis was punching him :lol: I certainly wouldn't wanna see out ten seconds let alone six rounds!!!

Started watching the first Conn fight (seen it before anyway) but it got so cold in my shed I finished my joint in the porch and came up onto my PC instead.

And now I'm off to bed :good

Gonna rescore Duran-Barkley tomorrow. Had it 114-113 Duran, what did you guys have it? Lost my individual rounds though so will do it again and see what happens :good

[sweet_scientist]

Watched Harada vs Turner all the way through.

I'm about to go to bed so won't post my thoughts. Would take me all day to encapsulate how good a fight it is. Just reaffirms how good I think Gavilan was. Awesome fight, am interested in Turner now, have two more of his fights to watch :good

Probably my favourite fight of all time. The most vicious and brutal exchanges I've ever seen. And I agree that it reaffirms the greatness of Kid.

Turner is a very underrated fighter for mine, especially as a welterweight.

Turner could very well have beaten guys like Mosley, Quartey, DLH etc, but you'll never hear him get the recognition those guys get.

Check out Gil's fight with Joey Giardello if you can. Another classic scrap and a close fight too.

Gonna rescore Duran-Barkley tomorrow. Had it 114-113 Duran, what did you guys have it? Lost my individual rounds though so will do it again and see what happens :good Roberto Duran vs. Iran Barkley: 114-114 Draw
Duran: 1,7,9,10 and 11( 10-8 ).
Barkley: 2,4,5,6 8 and 12.
Round 3 even.

[sweet_scientist]

Just watched Mark Johnson vs. Alberto Jimenez, and wow... fantastic, fantastic fight.

Jimenez was as solid as a rock throughout, and walked through every single Johnson punch, making him look like an ordinary hitter, when he was anything but that. Jimenez's punches were short, sharp, solid and very heavy. He had Johnson in trouble on a few occasions, but never to the extent of being close to knocking him out. Jimenez's defense was quite good too, he took away Johnson's jab somewhat and rolled with punches well when he needed to.

Johnson was full of activity and speed and threw a heap of punches whilst moving for most of the fight. Some real sharpness to his punches, mixed in with some wild shots as we know he is capable of. Tremendous conditioning overall to fight as he did for 12 rounds and I thought he boxed superbly overall.

I can see how some felt that Jimenez won this fight given that he did finish rounds the stronger and his punches seemed to effect Johnson more than vice versa, but for me Johnson was simply landing too many clean shots to offset those advantages, and he was controlling the first two minutes of most rounds before Jimenez would come on.

Anyway, my scorecard:

Mark Johnson vs. Alberto Jimenez: 116-113 Johnson
Jimenez: 1,5,9 and 11.
Johnson: 2,3,4,6,7,8 and 10.
Round 12 even.

[AlFrancis]

Watched Harada vs Turner all the way through.

I'm about to go to bed so won't post my thoughts. Would take me all day to encapsulate how good a fight it is. Just reaffirms how good I think Gavilan was. Awesome fight, am interested in Turner now, have two more of his fights to watch :good

Watched Louis vs Carnera. Was surprised as I've only seen bits of the Sharkey and Baer figths but even accounting for the sped-up nature of old celluloid he looks fairly fast and capable. Good in fact.

Strange, as he showed immense heart in the Baer match (did he really break his ankle?!?!? Multiple knockdowns from a savage puncher nonetheless) but here Louis drops him three times and Carnera wants none of it.

Was it because Carnera had had enough? End of his career? I can't be arsed to find out. I'll hedge a bet its because Joe Louis was punching him :lol: I certainly wouldn't wanna see out ten seconds let alone six rounds!!!

Started watching the first Conn fight (seen it before anyway) but it got so cold in my shed I finished my joint in the porch and came up onto my PC instead.

And now I'm off to bed :good

Gonna rescore Duran-Barkley tomorrow. Had it 114-113 Duran, what did you guys have it? Lost my individual rounds though so will do it again and see what happens :good


Harada vs Turner?

[ricardoparker93]

Just finished wathcing Duran vs Benitez

I had it 146 - 140 Benitez

[Flea Man]

Meant Gavilan Al :lol:

Scientist; Thanks for the input :good

I got Fuller and Giardello vs Turner, will watch them tonight.
Turner vs Trinidad anyone?

[sweet_scientist]

Meant Gavilan Al :lol:

Scientist; Thanks for the input :good

I got Fuller and Giardello vs Turner, will watch them tonight.
Turner vs Trinidad anyone?

Give me Tito late in that one, but Turner would be up on the cards at the time.

I'd give Turner good shots at beating the likes of Curry, Starling, Cokes, McGirt though.

[AlFrancis]

I haven't seen Turner, I'll have to have a look. High praise indeed.

[sweet_scientist]

I haven't seen Turner, I'll have to have a look. High praise indeed.

:good

[GPater11093]

Probably my favourite fight of all time. The most vicious and brutal exchanges I've ever seen. And I agree that it reaffirms the greatness of Kid.

Turner is a very underrated fighter for mine, especially as a welterweight.

Turner could very well have beaten guys like Mosley, Quartey, DLH etc, but you'll never hear him get the recognition those guys get.

Check out Gil's fight with Joey Giardello if you can. Another classic scrap and a close fight too.



One of my favrouite fights aswell, cant really add much but reaffirm how brutal those exchanges were especially from Gavilan who was winging them in. Also one of the most brutal ending's i have seen.

I like your comparison with Meldrick Taylor for Turner.

Give me Tito late in that one, but Turner would be up on the cards at the time.

I'd give Turner good shots at beating the likes of Curry, Starling, Cokes, McGirt though.

I agree with the rest but not Curry.

[Flea Man]

I was raelly impressed with Turner. Surprised he ended up at Middle, what sorta' weight was he there? Would 154 be a perfect weight for him nowadays?

He's a ferocious fighter. Takes a serious beating, he certainly isn't running on empty late, it's a savage beating from Gavilan that ends it in a fight I had about 5-5 going into the 11th. The last three right hands Gavilan lands as he beats the kid to a standstill are so accurate it's scary.

I like Turners ability to keep throwing shots when Gavilan is trying to change the angles. Turner isn't just a straight up slugger by the looks of it, and he even throws some bolo punches, though I'm not sure (having not watched the aforementioned Fullmer and Giardello fights, which I also received yesterday) whether that was part of his arsenal or just a ploy to get into Gavilans head (i.e anything you can do I can do better)

He lands the jab against the taller Gavilan really well too, snapping the Cuban Hawks head back quite a few times.

The exchanges are BRUTAL. Two top operators (Turner only in his third year as a professional, hard to believe) who are well conditioned (physically and mentally) who can both box (Gavilan obviously superior in that department) can both punch (Gavilan a really underrated puncher IMO, not a monsterous puncher but his accuracy, workrate and ferocity mean I hate when he is labelled as a feather fist by those who have only checked his K.O%) and neither are easily dissuaded.

I'd only seen hl's before. Officially one of my favourite fights now. I'm glad RB chose the Fullmer and Giardello fights (I know Turner had a series with Fullmer, not sure whether it's the one Turner wins or not) as I wanted to see more of Turner as soon as the fight finished.

Anyway, that stream of consciousness above is a mere ramble; doesn't portray my full appreciation other than the fight.

Put it this way, you know a fight is quality when you're giggling like a schoolgirl at the exchanges :lol: :good

[Flea Man]

On Curry; whilst Turners aggressive style may point to him 'doing a Honeyghan' and wearing Curry out, would he be able to get past Currys sharp shots when Donald was in his prime and pomp? Curry>Gavilan as a hitter or would the Kid destroy the likes of McCrory as comprehensively as Curry did? I would say so.

One thing I'm certain is that Curry was not as durable as Gavilan, not by a long shot, even accounting for his mindset being ruined after losing his '0'. If Tuner CAN come through some tough shots I feel he can wear Curry down, either winning on points or stopping him late, regardless of whether Curry is weight drained.

Meldrick Taylor? Interesting comparison. They're both fast and let their hands go. Turner seems more route one to me though, an athletic slugger.

Any thoughts on the above?

[GPater11093]

On Curry; whilst Turners aggressive style may point to him 'doing a Honeyghan' and wearing Curry out, would he be able to get past Currys sharp shots when Donald was in his prime and pomp? Curry>Gavilan as a hitter or would the Kid destroy the likes of McCrory as comprehensively as Curry did? I would say so.

One thing I'm certain is that Curry was not as durable as Gavilan, not by a long shot, even accounting for his mindset being ruined after losing his '0'. If Tuner CAN come through some tough shots I feel he can wear Curry down, either winning on points or stopping him late, regardless of whether Curry is weight drained.

Meldrick Taylor? Interesting comparison. They're both fast and let their hands go. Turner seems more route one to me though, an athletic slugger.

Any thoughts on the above?

Fair enough, just like Curry's accuracy to halt the charges of Turner as Curry got off first, Gavilan seemed to let Turner get off first an dthen have to trade it out, if you got off first you could quell Turner's offence IMO.


I think they are similar they were both in essence athletic sluggers werent they, i wouldnt say Taylor was a boxer by any means.

Away to watch some benitez and Khaoker

[Flea Man]

Fair enough, just like Curry's accuracy to halt the charges of Turner as Curry got off first, Gavilan seemed to let Turner get off first an dthen have to trade it out, if you got off first you could quell Turner's offence IMO.


I think they are similar they were both in essence athletic sluggers werent they, i wouldnt say Taylor was a boxer by any means.

Away to watch some benitez and Khaoker

Gavilan did yeah, as I say I liked how Turner slammed his jab in. I think Curry would struggle with that too, as cagey as he could be Turner seemed fearless in that fight.

Colin Jones was a tough pressure fighter but Curry sorted him out. I just think Turner was faster than Jones and would get off enough punches. As I say have only seen this fight, but Gavilan is as good an indication as any that Turner would do well against 'ATG' welters.

Styles make fights though. Have only seen McCrory, Jones, Honeyghan and McCallum fights. Can anyone reccomend any more Curry? Easily available stuff of course :good

[Flea Man]

Fair enough, just like Curry's accuracy to halt the charges of Turner as Curry got off first, Gavilan seemed to let Turner get off first an dthen have to trade it out, if you got off first you could quell Turner's offence IMO.


I think they are similar they were both in essence athletic sluggers werent they, i wouldnt say Taylor was a boxer by any means.

Away to watch some benitez and Khaoker

No, he wasn't. I just like Taylors combos more. Both Philli fighters though, no doubt that's why they're similar.

[sweet_scientist]

On Curry; whilst Turners aggressive style may point to him 'doing a Honeyghan' and wearing Curry out, would he be able to get past Currys sharp shots when Donald was in his prime and pomp? Curry>Gavilan as a hitter or would the Kid destroy the likes of McCrory as comprehensively as Curry did? I would say so.

One thing I'm certain is that Curry was not as durable as Gavilan, not by a long shot, even accounting for his mindset being ruined after losing his '0'. If Tuner CAN come through some tough shots I feel he can wear Curry down, either winning on points or stopping him late, regardless of whether Curry is weight drained.

Meldrick Taylor? Interesting comparison. They're both fast and let their hands go. Turner seems more route one to me though, an athletic slugger.

Any thoughts on the above?

Curry-Turner would be an interesting one. Curry at his peak was very accurate, a good hitter and had a fair bit of durability too (you're right though that Curry was no where near as tough as Gavilan).

Turner as can be seen through his fights from welter to middleweight though wasn't really the type of fighter to get discouraged with a good shot to the chin. If you hit him, his instinct was to drill right back into you and return the favour.

I can see Turner's athleticism and gusto unsettling the measured precision of Curry and taking him off his game, but I can also envision Curry landing some good shots that hurt Turner and eventually weaken him to the point where he is taken out. I personally don't have an inclination to say one outcome is more likely than the other. Wouldn't be surprised at all with either outcome really.

As far as the Meldrick Taylor comparison goes, where they are similar is that they are both really naturally gifted, high speed, high activity phenoms, without too much in the way of defensive craft and savvy, but with such athletic tools that they can often render craft and technique in an opponent irrelevant. Taylor had a pretty rapid decline in his career whereas Turner stayed at a reasonably high level for a longer time, but neither were ever 100% after their first beatings imo.

[GPater11093]

just watched

Wilfred Benitez vs Mel Dennis

Was part of a US Championship to find a US Champion in 6 weights this was the Quarter Final of the Welterweight tournament. Held in a jail in Ohio funnily enough.

Benitez was pretty classy as he ouclassed teh tough and ever willing Dennis. He was nigh unhittable and really punished Dennis with his long left hooks - often doubled and tripled. In the later rounds Benitez led Dennis on and turned him expertly. Benitez got an 8 round UD.

Benitez: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Dennis:
Total:80-72 Benitez (8-0)

Wilfred Benitez vs Ray Guerro Chavez

An obscure NYASC world title fight, where both fighters said if they won the fight they would vacate.

Chavez was awkward and hell and did not want no part of Benitez. He stuck to a gameplan to frustrate Benitez but never really looked like he wanted to win. It was interesting to see Benitez at such a young age figure out his awkward opponent and gradually broke him down with body punches before sensationally stopping him in the last.

Benitez: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12*,13,14
Chavez:
Total: 140-125 Benitez (14-0)

* = 10-8 round

[Mantequilla]

That fight with Guerrero was truly awful imo.Benitez could look a lot like Eubank when he was fighting a safety-first runner.The Santos fight at 154 was another absolutely terrible fight with zero action.

[GPater11093]

That fight with Guerrero was truly awful imo.Benitez could look a lot like Eubank when he was fighting a safety-first runner.The Santos fight at 154 was another absolutely terrible fight with zero action.

It was, although Benitez did try in it and in the last third started breaking him down with the body shots to lower his hands to get his head.

But Guerrero wanted to part of Benitez, he was a terrible challenger. The crowd booed after every round :lol: and Benitez predicted a first round KO. The fight was so devoid of action the commentater started seaking about a town called 'Buckhaven' and how it sounded like 'it had a lot of trees and freindly people' before saying he had never been there. :lol::nut

[Flea Man]

It was, although Benitez did try in it and in the last third started breaking him down with the body shots to lower his hands to get his head.

But Guerrero wanted to part of Benitez, he was a terrible challenger. The crowd booed after every round :lol: and Benitez predicted a first round KO. The fight was so devoid of action the commentater started seaking about a town called 'Buckhaven' and how it sounded like 'it had a lot of trees and freindly people' before saying he had never been there. :lol::nut

:lol:I can still laugh without weed. Good to know.

[GPater11093]

:lol:I can still laugh without weed. Good to know.

Just away to check out that Khaoker DVD, first got to pour myself a pint

[Flea Man]

Just away to check out that Khaoker DVD, first got to pour myself a pint

:lol:You give dope smokers a hard time and you drink beer?

Honestly, out of all the drugs I've done (in my past life; don't you know I'm a changed man:lol:) booze is the most dehabilitating out of all of them (including acid)

I understand it's home made though? Enjoy it lad:goodWill be interested to see what you think of the Vasquez fight. Also, what is the other fight that's on there?

[GPater11093]

:lol:You give dope smokers a hard time and you drink beer?

Honestly, out of all the drugs I've done (in my past life; don't you know I'm a changed man:lol:) booze is the most dehabilitating out of all of them (including acid)

I understand it's home made though? Enjoy it lad:goodWill be interested to see what you think of the Vasquez fight. Also, what is the other fight that's on there?

I dont drink at all, although i used to, just my cousin gave me a home brew set so Im drinking it. Its alright stuff.

On the DVD is Galaxy vs Constanacio Dangla, Vasquez, Moon 1 and 2 and the fainting incident

[Flea Man]

Well I'll want a copy of that then :good

I've just had a valium: am off to the land of nod :lol:

[GPater11093]

Khaoker Galaxy vs Contanscio Dangla

Good fight here. Dangla was a brave wee fighter but was over matched and didnt seem to ever both Khaoker.

I was impressed with Khaoker as he gradullay broke down Dagla with excellant body punching however he seemed to be more of a 'powerpuncher' than I have seen him and fought abit more like his brother. The commentaters Reg Gutteridge and Jim Watt (who had seen afew of his earlier fights) were under the impression he had as much power as his younger brother. So maybe we need to rethink that he had little power?

However his body shots as previously noted were excellant and in the 4th round bangla just seemed to fold from the pressure and a few clean punches but all of the three knockdowns were quite messy and seemed to be from clipping shots.

Galaxy: 1,2,3
Bangla: KD'd 4 x3
Total: 30-27 Galaxy (3-0)

[Mantequilla]

He certainly didn't have little power.Very good puncher imo, though not as big as his brother.

[GPater11093]

He certainly didn't have little power.Very good puncher imo, though not as big as his brother.

From what i have seen, the Moon fights, he didnt really set his feet and let go with full blooded shots hence why I thought he wasnt a big puncher, though now I am disagreeing with my first thoughts.

He actually has a nice style to watch strangely fluid for such a mechanical stance.

[Flea Man]

I think he appears a lesser puncher due to the fact he fought better opposition

[GPater11093]

I think he appears a lesser puncher due to the fact he fought better opposition

Fair point

Khaoker Galaxy vs Wilfredo Vasquez

Quite a good fight here, but an amazing display by Khaoker.

The fight started fairly slow and at range, the rounds were pretty even but i prefered Galaxy's movement and jab, although Vasquez landed some good left hooks over Galaxy's jab and right hands to his chest. The fight changed in the third as Vasquez looked to get inside and had some early sucess but Galaxy quickly adapted and started to beat Vasquez on the inside and stunned him near the end of the round. In the 5th Galaxy was knocked down but it looked like an exaggerated fall more than anything but a punch did hit him. Very odd.

After that the fight was one sided as Galaxy just stayed on top and out boxed Vasquez controlling him behind a jab and out fighting him when needed. Vasquez did keep it competitive with good hooks to the body and the aforementioned right hand to the chest but couldnt grasp the iniative from Khaoker. Khaoker stunned Vasquez afew times but could never really keep him hurt. Khaoker at times got abit over confident and Vasquez kept him honest with some good blows but khaoker responded with excellant combos.


Galaxy: 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 KD'd 5
Vasquez: 5*
Total: 118-109 Galaxy (11-1)

Galaxy UD

* 10-8 round



I thought after the Bangla bout that Khaosai was more physically imposing than his brother, but that is not the case as at times Khaoker was imposing himself on Vasquez.

[Flea Man]

Having not seen the fight can anyone explain how Vasquez beat Canizales?

[GPater11093]

Lloyd Honeyghan vs Don Curry

First time I have seen this fight. The fight started fairly evenly as both men felt each other out, I thought Curry landed teh sharper shots. In the second Honeyghan came out and landed a long right hand on Curry's chin and stunned him badly and kept the pressure on him but could not finish him off. Curry regrouped well to take the 3rd and 4th with his sharp shooting but looked to be trying to get the KO instead of boxing.
The fight took its final turn in the 5th as Honeyghan again hurt Curry and really poured it on and gave him a good shellacking. The 6th was more of the same as a cut opened up on Curry's face, deciding enough was enough Curry did not want to continue after the 6th round.

Honeyghan:2,5,6
Curry: 1,3,4
Total: 27-27 Draw (3-3)


Honeyghan RTD6 Curry


Wilfred Benitez vs Bruce Curry I

A very good action packed fight here.

The bout started cagily as Benitez sized up Curry but a massive right hand stunned Benitez badly and won the round for Curry. The second and third rounds were Benitez's as he out pointed Curry with fast combinations. Deciding to turn it up in the 4th Benitez really turned it on and looked to finally take controll before a massive left hook from nowhere dropped Benitez badly. Benitez getting up very shakily got dropped again and still looked hurt with 15 seconds to go but managed stay upright. Sensing his advantage Curry picked it up in the 5th and dropped benitez again but Wilfred showed some good defensive instincts to hold on.

Finally getting his legs underneath him, Benitez played a negative game and took the 6th round from Curry who was badly tiring from his sloppy finishing in the preceding two rounds. Benitez again took command from the 6th thru to the 9th but lacked his usal sharpness and seemed lackadasical at times.

In the tenth both boys looking for a big finish, they slugged it out but Benitez's faster hands pulled him through.

The fight was scored on a rounds basis but on a points system Benitez would have lost! (although not on my card)

Benitez: 2,3,6,7,8,9,10 KD'd 4x2,5
Curry: 1,4,5
Total: 94-93 Benitez (7-3)

Benitez SD Curry

[natonic]

Ken Buchanan W15 Jim Watt (this is now on Youtube)

I had it 145-141 Buchanan (9-5-1). I think Harry Carpenter had it a little closer. I have no problem with that. There were a lot of close rounds I just think that Buchanan was edging most of them being just a little busier and with his ring generalship.
It was a very interesting tactical affair. I found myself contrasting it to Arguello - Watt. Arguello seemed to use the Cardinal rules versus lefties: front foot outside the southpaws front foot and throw plenty of lead right hands. Buchanan hardly seemed to acknowledge he was fighting a southpaw and boxed him pretty straight-up and as usual initiated things with his jab. Both men (but especially Watt) were marked up pretty good at the end of the fight. Buchanan had some kind words for Watt at the end of the fight. Entertaining fight albeit not a barnburner. I'd be interested in hearing some other scores on this fight. It wouldn't shock me if some gave it to Watt.

[Mantequilla]

I thought that was a real off-night for Buchanan.Watt was green, but like Witherspoon against Holmes, he never looked better than this fight imo.Have to consider the scottish rivalry aspect as well, Watt really rose to the occasion.

The difference i saw between this and the Arguello fight was that Arguello made no effort to "box", just punching the stuffing out of Watt with his usual accurate powershots and quickly getting him into survival mode.Buchanan as you say, just did his usual pointscoring orientated offense, only with a good deal less sharpness than his best efforts.Against a super accurate minimalist jabber like Watt, who was world class because he fought smart and did a few basic things eceptionally well, it was never going to make for a showcase by trying to pit those very same tools(jab-one-two) right back at him.

Buchanan did show his underrated infighting when the fight got in close though.He could really throw nice short combos in there.I thnk he would have done much better, had he focused more on it, as Watt needs much more room to operate.

[GPater11093]

Wilfred Benitez vs Bruce Curry II

A cagey affair with both guys knowing each others power looking to satya away. I gave the first to Curry who landed some well placed shots but after that it was all Benitez, although he did make afew mistakes early and lacked sharpness. About the 5th Wilfred took over and it was vintage as he turned and waltz Curry out of position and mashed him with counters and in the 10th gave a clean punching clinic.

Benitez: 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
Curry: 1
Total: 99-91 Benitez (9-1)

Benitez UD

Wilfred Benitez vs Randy Sheilds

Simply superb. Benitez was absoloute class. He kept in front of Sheilds and made the fight abit of a shoot out. He was making Sheilds miss and then making him pay while standing in front of him! Brilliant to watch. His right hand was in song and hurt Sheilds numerous times and in the 6th dropped Sheild heavy with a monstrous right hand. Sheilds lasted teh round but retired wisely afterwards.

Benitez: 1,2,3,4,5,6
Sheilds: KD'd 6
Total: 60-53 Benitez (6-0)

Benitez RTD6 Sheilds

[GPater11093]

Lupe Pintor vs Jose Antonio Rosa

I'm not to familiar with Pintor so I thought I would be best to start from near the beginning so this is a pre-title Pintor.

Rosa started the bout positivly throwing shots from range and rushing into smother Pintor but Pintor's classy left hook to head and body impressed me, especially to the body.

In the second he pinned Rosa pinned Rosa in a corner and kept him there. I was impressed with Pintor when he trapped Rosa in the corner as he kept his distance well and stayed composed, keeping it at long range to get full leverage. In the third it was more of the same but a left hook stunned Rosa and he squatted down but stayed upright.

In the fourth Rosa strated to escape from the corners and the ropes so Lupe cleverly started to physically pin Rosa to the ropes and unloaded some brillaint right uppercuts. Was impressed with the way he suddenly changed his tactics to adjust to Rosa.

The fifth was dominant as a long left hook dropped an oncoming rosa early in the round, although Rosa rose unhurt he could not get out of the corner like he did in round 4. Later in the round a big right from Pintor forced a standing 8 count on the bell. The sixth was similar and after knocking Rosa down the referee halted the contest.

Pintor: 1,2,3,4,5
Rosa: KD'd 5x2*,6
Total: 50-43 Pintor (5-0)

*= one of the KD's was a standing count

Pintor TKO6 Rosa

[itrymariti]

Monzon/Griffith II

Round 1: Monzon 10-9
Round 2: Monzon 10-9
Round 3: Monzon 10-9
Round 4: Monzon 10-9
Round 5: Monzon 10-9
Round 6: Monzon 10-9
Round 7: Monzon 10-9
Round 8: Griffith 10-9
Round 9: Griffith 10-9
Round 10: Even 10-10
Round 11: Griffith 10-9
Round 12: Griffith 10-9
Round 13: Monzon 10-9
Round 14: Monzon 10-9
Round 15: Griffith 10-9

Total: Monzon 145-141 Griffith

(Actually, the fight was scored on a 20-point must system, but fuck that.)

People seem to talk about this fight as if it was a totally lackluster performance from Carlos, but I think it was more a case of him going to sleep after the first half of the fight. At the start, he looked brilliant: as fast as I've ever seen him, mixing it up a lot more than in Griffith I, getting off first and totally negating Griffith's attempts to get inside with heavy body shots, upper-cuts and hooks. He used the right hand as frequently as I've seen him (apart from vs. Briscoe) and was much more effective with it than when he just stood there constantly pawing with the jab. At one point, I think he threw a six or seven punch combination - so much for the one-dimensional 1-1-2 man! Basically, I felt he was boxing Emile's ears off and totally handling him until Round 8, where he seemed to run out of energy. (Obviously, he had trouble making weight and had to train the day before-hand, if you buy that.) Still, I thought he stole enough of the later rounds even with little left in the tank to win quite clearly.

The Monzon of the first half of the fight was a serious force to be reckoned with, though.

[GPater11093]

Monzon/Griffith II

Round 1: Monzon 10-9
Round 2: Monzon 10-9
Round 3: Monzon 10-9
Round 4: Monzon 10-9
Round 5: Monzon 10-9
Round 6: Monzon 10-9
Round 7: Monzon 10-9
Round 8: Griffith 10-9
Round 9: Griffith 10-9
Round 10: Even 10-10
Round 11: Griffith 10-9
Round 12: Griffith 10-9
Round 13: Monzon 10-9
Round 14: Monzon 10-9
Round 15: Griffith 10-9

Total: Monzon 145-141 Griffith

(Actually, the fight was scored on a 20-point must system, but fuck that.)

People seem to talk about this fight as if it was a totally lackluster performance from Carlos, but I think it was more a case of him going to sleep after the first half of the fight. At the start, he looked brilliant: as fast as I've ever seen him, mixing it up a lot more than in Griffith I, getting off first and totally negating Griffith's attempts to get inside with heavy body shots, upper-cuts and hooks. He used the right hand as frequently as I've seen him (apart from vs. Briscoe) and was much more effective with it than when he just stood there constantly pawing with the jab. At one point, I think he threw a six or seven punch combination - so much for the one-dimensional 1-1-2 man! Basically, I felt he was boxing Emile's ears off and totally handling him until Round 8, where he seemed to run out of energy. (Obviously, he had trouble making weight and had to train the day before-hand, if you buy that.) Still, I thought he stole enough of the later rounds even with little left in the tank to win quite clearly.

The Monzon of the first half of the fight was a serious force to be reckoned with, though.

I thought he was fairly lacklustre in it to be honest. I had him just nabbing it by 1 or 2 rounds if i remember right. If you watch the first fight with Griffith you will notice a huge difference in Monzon.

Lupe Pintor vs Andres Torres

Just more Pintor. the fight started easy then Pintor landed a massive left hook to the body dropping Torres who got up and looked hurt. Remarkebly Torres fought back well but Pintor was cleanly picking him off like an assasin, nothing fazes that guy at all.
I did not see a cut open up but i never realy do when i watch a fight on TV, and the bout was stopped on cuts in the 4th although Pintor was dominating and really picking him off by that point.

Pintor: 1,2,3
Torres: KD'd 1
Total: 30-26 Pintor (3-0)

Pintor TKO4 Torres


Lupe Pintor vs Tony Rocha

Pintor started as usual and looked good. In the third he dropped Rocha who rolled under the ropes when he went down and looked hurt but springed up at '8' and survived the round. In the 4th Pintor unleashed a beastly liver shot and Rocha was rolling all over the floor even after the ten count had finished and while they was announcing the result!

Pintor: 1,2,3
Rocha: KD'd 3,4
Total: 30-26 Pintor (3-0)

Pintor KO4 Rocha


Lupe Pintor vs Eijero Murata

Excellant fight this real contrast of style and had alot of drama. Murata came out positivly and really out manuevered Pintor and landed hard jarring shots especially his right hand that really shook Pintor. Murata just kept moving and landing his shots. In the 5th and 6th Murata looked to start to tire but still took the rounds. The pace slowed in the 7th as Murata took a break and Pintor landed some good counters to take a very close round. At this point I was thinking Murata will start to tire and Pintor will come on like Margarito vs Cotto. It seemed Murata's workrate was what Pintor was bothered about.

The 8th, 9th and 10th were a return to the pattern as again Murata moved around and landed his hard right hands on Pintor who just couldnt seem to time him properly.

Although in the 11th it all changed. Murata elated by his sucess decided to trade with Pintor and shook him early, sensing his advantage he pounced on Pintor who engaged in an inside war and looked and Pintor landed some jarring uppercuts and soon Murata was all round the ring as Pintor punched desperatly (but still completly composed and unfazed) but Murata showing his grit weathered the storm. Perhaps both needing a rest the pace slowed and Pintor again took it with good counters in a very close round. Murata amazingly recaptured his earlier form and took the 13th round with his controlled boxing.

The 14th was the clearest round of the fight as Pintor punched Murata round the ring and a stoppage looked possible as Murata took a hiding and survived a doctor inspection for a closed right eye. But try as he might Pinto couldnt finish off his prey. Like Lazurith Murata came back amazingly and outboxed Pintor to snatch the final round.

I disagreed with the Draw result and felt Murata got it, it would be interesting to see if anyone else has seen this bout as it is excellant. Although Murata's early rounds were close I did think his right hand won them for him.

Pintor: 7,11,12,14*
Murata:1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9,10,13,15
Total: 145-139 Murata (11-4)
*= 10-8 round

Pintor DRAW Murata

[itrymariti]

I thought he was fairly lacklustre in it to be honest. I had him just nabbing it by 1 or 2 rounds if i remember right. If you watch the first fight with Griffith you will notice a huge difference in Monzon.

You see, I have, and this is it: I don't get what was so bad about the latter version of Monzon. The way I see it, the only reason the fight was remotely close was because Monzon either ran out of energy or just generally went to sleep after the half-way point. Obviously, he dominated Griffith better in the first fight, but all he was really doing was jabbing and dropping the occasional right hand, and Griffith just couldn't get to him. In the second fight it looked like Griffith had a much more aggressive attitude and was getting inside with a lot more vim, and that forced Monzon to mix it up more - which he did, and looked good doing it. I just don't see how it was an all-round "lacklustre" performance, other than the stamina issue.

I seem to be going against the grain a bit here. Maybe I'm missing something.

[itrymariti]

Watched Jones' amateur career and first few pro fights. Couple of Golden Gloves finals, plus the Olympics including the Sun robbery. Looked very impressive if a bit wild. I don't know how much Roy really improved as he went through his early fights, because his raw skills were so good that they generally just overwhelmed his totally over-matched opposition.

[GPater11093]

You see, I have, and this is it: I don't get what was so bad about the latter version of Monzon. The way I see it, the only reason the fight was remotely close was because Monzon either ran out of energy or just generally went to sleep after the half-way point. Obviously, he dominated Griffith better in the first fight, but all he was really doing was jabbing and dropping the occasional right hand, and Griffith just couldn't get to him. In the second fight it looked like Griffith had a much more aggressive attitude and was getting inside with a lot more vim, and that forced Monzon to mix it up more - which he did, and looked good doing it. I just don't see how it was an all-round "lacklustre" performance, other than the stamina issue.

I seem to be going against the grain a bit here. Maybe I'm missing something.

Just think Monzon was sharper in the first fight, but good point about him slwoing down after the mid point. Also like you say Griffith had a good strategy the second time round aswell and he thinks he won the fight.

[natonic]

I thought he was fairly lacklustre in it to be honest. I had him just nabbing it by 1 or 2 rounds if i remember right. If you watch the first fight with Griffith you will notice a huge difference in Monzon.

Lupe Pintor vs Andres Torres

Just more Pintor. the fight started easy then Pintor landed a massive left hook to the body dropping Torres who got up and looked hurt. Remarkebly Torres fought back well but Pintor was cleanly picking him off like an assasin, nothing fazes that guy at all.
I did not see a cut open up but i never realy do when i watch a fight on TV, and the bout was stopped on cuts in the 4th although Pintor was dominating and really picking him off by that point.

Pintor: 1,2,3
Torres: KD'd 1
Total: 30-26 Pintor (3-0)

Pintor TKO4 Torres


Lupe Pintor vs Tony Rocha

Pintor started as usual and looked good. In the third he dropped Rocha who rolled under the ropes when he went down and looked hurt but springed up at '8' and survived the round. In the 4th Pintor unleashed a beastly liver shot and Rocha was rolling all over the floor even after the ten count had finished and while they was announcing the result!

Pintor: 1,2,3
Rocha: KD'd 3,4
Total: 30-26 Pintor (3-0)

Pintor KO4 Rocha


Lupe Pintor vs Eijero Murata

Excellant fight this real contrast of style and had alot of drama. Murata came out positivly and really out manuevered Pintor and landed hard jarring shots especially his right hand that really shook Pintor. Murata just kept moving and landing his shots. In the 5th and 6th Murata looked to start to tire but still took the rounds. The pace slowed in the 7th as Murata took a break and Pintor landed some good counters to take a very close round. At this point I was thinking Murata will start to tire and Pintor will come on like Margarito vs Cotto. It seemed Murata's workrate was what Pintor was bothered about.

The 8th, 9th and 10th were a return to the pattern as again Murata moved around and landed his hard right hands on Pintor who just couldnt seem to time him properly.

Although in the 11th it all changed. Murata elated by his sucess decided to trade with Pintor and shook him early, sensing his advantage he pounced on Pintor who engaged in an inside war and looked and Pintor landed some jarring uppercuts and soon Murata was all round the ring as Pintor punched desperatly (but still completly composed and unfazed) but Murata showing his grit weathered the storm. Perhaps both needing a rest the pace slowed and Pintor again took it with good counters in a very close round. Murata amazingly recaptured his earlier form and took the 13th round with his controlled boxing.

The 14th was the clearest round of the fight as Pintor punched Murata round the ring and a stoppage looked possible as Murata took a hiding and survived a doctor inspection for a closed right eye. But try as he might Pinto couldnt finish off his prey. Like Lazurith Murata came back amazingly and outboxed Pintor to snatch the final round.

I disagreed with the Draw result and felt Murata got it, it would be interesting to see if anyone else has seen this bout as it is excellant. Although Murata's early rounds were close I did think his right hand won them for him.

Pintor: 7,11,12,14*
Murata:1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9,10,13,15
Total: 145-139 Murata (11-4)
*= 10-8 round

Pintor DRAW Murata


Yes Greg, I've seen this fight. I also had Murata taking it, though I recall having it pretty close. Felt like Pintor came on strong at the end but too late.

[natonic]

Watched some fights which didn't have much need to score:

Mark Breland TKO6 John Mundunga (had it 5-0 Breland until the stoppage)

Alfonso Zamoro KO2 Eusebio Pedroza - Brutal KO. Zamora looked really good but Pedroza was very green. He ultimately learned to tuck that chin and went on to greatness.

Bennie Briscoe KO1 Eugene Hart - Hart started throwing huge shots but quickly came apart like a poorly wrapped burrito when Bennie replied.

Eugene Hart TKO1 Stanley Heyward. Dude could punch.

Juan Laporte KO2 Rocky Lockridge. Laporte was just teeing off, throwing huge punches from the start. Lockridge obviously needed to fight a different fight. Angelo Dundee on the telecast said several times that Lockridge needed to quit exchanging with Laporte. It occurred to me on this viewing that Laporte was just all wrong for Lockridge, kind of a featherweight version of Foreman-Frazier.

[sweet_scientist]

For what it's worth my Pintor-Murata card:

Lupe Pintor vs. Eijiro Murata: 143-142 Pintor
Murata: 1,4,6,9,11, 12 and 15.
Pintor: 2,3,7,8,10,13 and 14 ( 10-8 ).
Round 5 even.

It's quite different from yours G, but I did feel when watching it that there were lots of contentious rounds, so that you have it quite different to me is not really a shock.

Murata is a very underrated fighter. Gave Jeff Chandler a good stoush too. Arguably he beat both Pintor and Chandler, and yet you don't hear much about him.

Kind of a more rough around the edges version of Chang he was....


And my Monzon-Griffith II card:

Carlos Monzon vs. Emile Griffith II: 145:142 Monzon
Griffith: 2,7,9,10 and 11
Monzon: 1,3,4,5,6,12,13 and 14
Rounds 8 and 15 even.

AWFUL, AWFUL fight.

[BlueApollo]

Leonard - Benitez

Had it 10-4 SRL going into the 15th. Good Lord was the 15th tremendous, Ray could have gotten on his bike and popped the jab, which essentially won him the fight anyhow, and instead he goes toe to toe and starts trading bombs. Benitez starts turning the tide on the inside, landing some monster left hooks, and then right when you think it's time for Ray to get the hell out of Dodge, he drops Benitez with a left hook of his own. Shouldn't really have been stopped, but it obviously had no bearing on the outcome.

Not really a great fight IMO but the 15th was definitely a great round.

[GPater11093]

For what it's worth my Pintor-Murata card:

Lupe Pintor vs. Eijiro Murata: 143-142 Pintor
Murata: 1,4,6,9,11, 12 and 15.
Pintor: 2,3,7,8,10,13 and 14 ( 10-8 ).
Round 5 even.

It's quite different from yours G, but I did feel when watching it that there were lots of contentious rounds, so that you have it quite different to me is not really a shock.

Murata is a very underrated fighter. Gave Jeff Chandler a good stoush too. Arguably he beat both Pintor and Chandler, and yet you don't hear much about him.

Kind of a more rough around the edges version of Chang he was....


Murata I thought wa smore of a traditional boxer than Chang, although some similarities.

It was a close fight I thought Pintor did better when the pace slowed and Murata kept a pretty good pace. Very underrated figher IMo goign to keep my eyes open for him.

What did you think of the fight?

Yes Greg, I've seen this fight. I also had Murata taking it, though I recall having it pretty close. Felt like Pintor came on strong at the end but too late.

I thought a closer card could be in order, how good did you think the fight was?

[BlueApollo]

Watched Jones' amateur career and first few pro fights. Couple of Golden Gloves finals, plus the Olympics including the Sun robbery. Looked very impressive if a bit wild. I don't know how much Roy really improved as he went through his early fights, because his raw skills were so good that they generally just overwhelmed his totally over-matched opposition.

The crazy thing with hindsight is that outside of Castro, he hadn't fought anybody to seriously prepare him for Hopkins. But he had the common sense and intuition to shorten his punches considerably in this fight. They really were both very green at this point, it's a shame given what they went on to be that they could never get past 60/ 40 (or Danny Green). :lol:

I think the biggest progression Roy made concerning his style was the development of his strength, which made his raw power ridiculous, which led to his willingness to cover up on the ropes and counter against pressure. I think if Roy of the early 90s had run into Bryant Brannon, it might have looked like a track meet for a few rounds.

[natonic]

Murata I thought wa smore of a traditional boxer than Chang, although some similarities.

It was a close fight I thought Pintor did better when the pace slowed and Murata kept a pretty good pace. Very underrated figher IMo goign to keep my eyes open for him.

What did you think of the fight?



I thought a closer card could be in order, how good did you think the fight was?

I thought it was a really good fight. As Sweet_Scientist said, Murata is a bit underrated. He gave Chandler 2 really good goes (with the 3rd being a bit underrated). I haven't watched the Chandler-Murata fights recently but my recollection is that Pintor-Murata was a little better styles mesh and therefore a more entertaining fight. Close fight but must've been tough to swallow for Murata not to get that decision in his home country.
I seem to recall back in the day that Pintor with his WBC (Mexican) alignment and Pedroza with his WBA (Panama) alignment always got AT LEAST a fair shake on the scorecards. Not to suggest that the Pintor - Murata draw was a robbery.

[natonic]

I thought it was a really good fight. As Sweet_Scientist said, Murata is a bit underrated. He gave Chandler 2 really good goes (with the 3rd being a bit underrated). I haven't watched the Chandler-Murata fights recently but my recollection is that Pintor-Murata was a little better styles mesh and therefore a more entertaining fight. Close fight but must've been tough to swallow for Murata not to get that decision in his home country.
I seem to recall back in the day that Pintor with his WBC (Mexican) alignment and Pedroza with his WBA (Panama) alignment always got AT LEAST a fair shake on the scorecards. Not to suggest that the Pintor - Murata draw was a robbery.

Meant to say with the 3rd fight being a bit onesided.

[GPater11093]

I thought it was a really good fight. As Sweet_Scientist said, Murata is a bit underrated. He gave Chandler 2 really good goes (with the 3rd being a bit underrated). I haven't watched the Chandler-Murata fights recently but my recollection is that Pintor-Murata was a little better styles mesh and therefore a more entertaining fight. Close fight but must've been tough to swallow for Murata not to get that decision in his home country.
I seem to recall back in the day that Pintor with his WBC (Mexican) alignment and Pedroza with his WBA (Panama) alignment always got AT LEAST a fair shake on the scorecards. Not to suggest that the Pintor - Murata draw was a robbery.

Ill have to scout them out.

[sweet_scientist]

Murata I thought wa smore of a traditional boxer than Chang, although some similarities.

It was a close fight I thought Pintor did better when the pace slowed and Murata kept a pretty good pace. Very underrated figher IMo goign to keep my eyes open for him.

What did you think of the fight?


Wholeheartedly agree with natonic. The Pintor fight was an excellent scrap but the Chandler fights are a bit more messy (punch and grab mauling is quite frequent). I think one of the Chandler fights is on youtube, check it out when you get the time and report back :good

[natonic]

JC Chavez W12 Rocky Lockridge. I had it 9-3 for Chavez although it was a very entertaining fight. Much credit to Lockridge. He took some heavy shots and a body attack that would've stopped lesser men. Lockridge's ever pressing style brought out the best in Chavez. Underrated boxer and underrated defensively.

The telecast claimed that Chavez suffered a DQ loss early in his career. I've seen this fight before but didn't remember this.

[natonic]

Jeff Fenech TKO5 Tyrone Downs. Crazy fight. I gave Downs the 1st, 2nd round even. All Fenech the rest of the way. He just overwhelmed Downs. Fenech wasn't real sharp to start but got it going after a couple rounds. Downs was down 4 times.

[thejokerswild]

Lewis - Mercer

Cant remember the exact rounds but I had it pretty much even and felt the last round was a decider. Mercer deserved it a bit more but I felt it could of went either way.

Bad commentating.

Also saw Holyfield Vs Bobby Czyz

Same deal with the commentating. I had bobby winning the 1 & 3. Unusual that he stopped the fight as he was landing a lot more shots than Holyfield despite his serious size/power disadvantages. Much respect to Bobby for what he did in there before quitting, Holyfield was just leaning on him though.

[haglerwon]

Just watched Corrales v. Clottey.

I had it 100-89, but that was with two tied rounds which really could have gone either way (So 98-91, or 100-87 at the extremes). The ringside judges had it 97-90, 98-89 and 100-87. Clottey just got the edge in a couple as well, but overall was definitely the more effective fighter.

It was one of those fights where the lop-sidedness of the scores doesn't really reflect the efforts of the beaten fighter. It was 97% of the way to being as absorbing as the Corrales-Castillo war. Corrales had real heart.

[natonic]

Roberto Duran KO 14 Ray Lampkin - Really good fight. Lampkin fought a great fight and gave Duran all he could handle. I did have Duran ahead 7-5-1 at the time of the stoppage. This is the only footage I have of Lampkin who is a very skilled fighter. Kind of reminds me of a more combative Bernard Taylor. But the Hands of Stone wore him down and the KO was brutal. Lampkin was briefly hospitalized with a severre concussion and suspended from fighting for 6 months. He probably should've called it a career after this fight.

Baby Sugar Rojas W12 Alfonso Lopez II. Had this 8-4 for Rojas. His size presented major problems for Lopez. Rojas was a good fighter who doesn't get much love on ESB. He beat some good fighters (Ballas and Laciar as I recall). He couldn't get past Gilberto Roman twice and it was kind of down hill from there.

[GPater11093]

Hilario Zapata vs Suichi Hozumi

This was an excellant wee fight. Both guys looked to trade with Zapata more sharp shooting and Hozumi looking to land big shots. Zapata however was excellant in his fluid defence and offence as he countered Hozumi in the middle of his own combinations. Was a pure delight to watch. The bout was also competitive early but soon Zapata ran away with it and dropped Hozumi with a well placed counter in the 13th before continuing his domination to win on points, although he had Hozumi hurt frequently with long lefts.

Zapata: 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15
Hozumi:5 KD'd 13
Total: 149-135 Zapata (14-1)

Zapata UD15 Hozumi


Gennaro Hernandez vs Jimmy Garcia

First part of the amazing Carbajal vs Gonzalez 3 card by Don King in Mexico. Garcia early looked pretty handy as he showed some good moves and fast hands, however Hernandez landed classy combinations from long range and beat Garcia to the punch. Pretty much the same throughout the fight although a long right dropped Garcia in the 3rd and Garcia lost a point in the 6th for a second deliberate head butt.

Hernandez: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7
Garcia: 8,11,12 KD'd 3 1P.D 6
Total: 117-109 Hernandez (9-3)

Hernandez UD12 Garcia

Terry Norris vs Luis Santana

Second part of the amazing Carbajal vs Gonzalez 3 card by Don King in Mexico. Santana really showed a good chin early on as Norris basically hit him at will. A long sweeping left by Santana hurt Norris in the 3rd and Norris grabbed Santana and Norris was pushed to the ground and the ref wrongly ruled a knockdown. After that Santana took more of a battering and in the 4th Norris lost a point for head butting. The fifth Santana took more leather but when tangled on the ropes Norris landed a hard left hook on the back of his head and dropped him hard. Santana lay on the floor blinking madly while the doctor, referee and Suliman decided what the result was instead of helping Santana as Ferdie Pacheco shouted for help for Santana. Absoloute disgrace.

Norris: 1,2,3*,4^ KD'd 3 1P.D 4
Santana:3*,4^
Total: 29-37 Norris (2-0-2)

* 10-10 round
^ 9-9 round

Santana DQ4 Norris


Ricardo Lopez vs Javier Varguez

Excellant display by Lopez as he boxed and moved superbly peppering the determined Varguez as he came inside with hard combinations, only critisism is that Lopez let varguez get inside too much. Lopez's combinations were class throughout and one in particular was amazing as Lopez turned southpaw and landed a jab, right uppercut and a right hook in series. Lopez's right hand and left hook never seemed to miss and Varguez had some chin to remain upright. After a prolonged beating a 1-2 followed by a right hand - left hook combo ended matters.

Lopez: 1,2,3,4,5*,6,7*
Varguez:
Total: 70-61 Lopez (8-0)

* 10-8 rounds

Lopez TKO8 Varguez

Humberto Gonzalez vs Michael Carbajal III
The main event of the card. Early on Gonzalez just moved around and looked for sneaky lead lefts and right hooks but Carbajal's jab and straight right's seemed to be the better shots. Carbajal's left hooks looked pretty good as he digged them into the body early.
In the 6th Gonzalez looked for more combinations and the fight changed dynamic but stayed tight although Gonzalez after the 7th took over (for me) as Carbajal seemed to coast more and let Gonzalez get off first.

Be interesting to see other scorecards.

Gonzalez: 4,8,9,10,11,12
Carbajal: 1,2,3,5,6,7
Total: 114-114 Draw (6-6)

Gonzalez MD12 Carbajal


Sandy Saddler vs Flash Elorde

A good fight here. Elorde looked to move around and land fast combinations and kept very busy. Whereas Saddler looked to stalk and get inside. The bout followed this pattern the whole way through. Elorde landed some really classy combinations at times mainly revolving round his straight left. Although his inexperianced allowed him to get caught up. I felt Saddler did better when he winged from the outside and then looked to get inside (like in the 5th) as opposed to just trying to get inside as he did early. Surprisingly Elorde shook up Saddler afew times with hard fast combinations. A cut suffered by Elorde got progressivly worse by Saddler's right hands and his head until the bout was stopped after 2 earlier inspections in the 13th round. Very unfortunate for Elorde, although Saddler was starting to come on, and it was a good interesting tactivcal match up, although Saddler is horrible to watch.

Saddler: 2,5,10,11,12
Elorde: 1,3,4,6,7,8,9
Total: 115-113 Elorde (7-5)

Saddler TKO(Cuts)13 Elorde

[WhataRock]

That Zapata fight sounds like a whoopin.

[WhataRock]

Jung Koo Chang KO 3 Alfonso Lopez.

A bit of a sloppy start from the young Chang but once he got going..Wow..He had Lopez down twice in the 2nd, the bell saving Alfonso. In the 3rd Lopez looked like he was on a boat, wobbling around unsteadily. But he bravely fought back, taking a fair bit of leather before finally going down again at the end of the round and thats where the ref waved it off.

Chang is just a natural.


Lionel Rose W10 Tiny Palacio

No sound and average quality...The fight seems to skip from time to time. But I barely saw more then a few exchanges where Tiny had any ascendancy. Lionel looked excellent slipping punches, effortlessly moving around the ring and dominating with his jab.
Tiny was no mug either, A well travelled trial horse...sharing the ring the best around at the time. Including Olivares, Harada and Shibata.

[AlFrancis]

Jung Koo Chang KO 3 Alfonso Lopez.

A bit of a sloppy start from the young Chang but once he got going..Wow..He had Lopez down twice in the 2nd, the bell saving Alfonso. In the 3rd Lopez looked like he was on a boat, wobbling around unsteadily. But he bravely fought back, taking a fair bit of leather before finally going down again at the end of the round and thats where the ref waved it off.

Chang is just a natural.


Lionel Rose W10 Tiny Palacio

No sound and average quality...The fight seems to skip from time to time. But I barely saw more then a few exchanges where Tiny had any ascendancy. Lionel looked excellent slipping punches, effortlessly moving around the ring and dominating with his jab.
Tiny was no mug either, A well travelled trial horse...sharing the ring the best around at the time. Including Olivares, Harada and Shibata.

Didn't know that Rose fight was about, what else have you got by him? I'v seen Olivares vs Palacio.

[GPater11093]

That Zapata fight sounds like a whoopin.

It was a domination and in the late rounds it was a whoopin but early on it was quite close.

Jung Koo Chang KO 3 Alfonso Lopez.

A bit of a sloppy start from the young Chang but once he got going..Wow..He had Lopez down twice in the 2nd, the bell saving Alfonso. In the 3rd Lopez looked like he was on a boat, wobbling around unsteadily. But he bravely fought back, taking a fair bit of leather before finally going down again at the end of the round and thats where the ref waved it off.

Chang is just a natural.


.

One of my favrouite performances of Chang. The start is sloppy but as you say when he gets going...

Didn't know that Rose fight was about, what else have you got by him? I'v seen Olivares vs Palacio.

Same here on both counts.

Got all of Rose's title fights the 2 you sent and a Garcia non title bouts where he KO's Garcia cold.

[AlFrancis]

It was a domination and in the late rounds it was a whoopin but early on it was quite close.



One of my favrouite performances of Chang. The start is sloppy but as you say when he gets going...



Same here on both counts.

Got all of Rose's title fights the 2 you sent and a Garcia non title bouts where he KO's Garcia cold.

Didn't i send you the Gattellari fight or is that what your talking about?

[GPater11093]

Didn't i send you the Gattellari fight or is that what your talking about?

yeh the Gattelari fight is what you sent me and the Rudkin bout I also have a non title Garcia bout

[itrymariti]

Lots of Jones. Jones/Pazienza is noteworthy. If anybody doubts that Roy Jones had anything other than a truly world-class jab, watch that fight. I thought Pazienza made a decent scrap of it considering he was almost hilariously under-sized, but the outcome was more or less inevitable.

[GPater11093]

Rinty Monaghan vs Jackie Paterson

A wee *******. Paterson weak at the weight boxed of the back foot in his southpaw stance whilst Monaghan pressed the action. Paterson landed afew good counters as Rinty rushed on but ultimatly Monaghan's strength was too much for the wee Glesga lad as he pressured relentlessly.

A hard punch dropped Paterson in the 3rd but he got up at 9.

In the seventh Monaghan came on savegly and got Paterson in a corner and bruttally battered him with right after left and Paterson fell lifeless and was unable to move for about a minute. Cracking wee fight.

Was only highlights

Time: 19 mins
Rounds: 1,2,3,7

Monaghan KO7 Paterson


Rinty Monaghan vs Dado Marino I

Only 1 minute of footage from a newsreel. Monaghan landed a good shot and dropped Marino in the opener but Marino fought back savegly as Monaghan bobbed and weaved his way in but Marino's furious hooks and uppercuts thwarted his advances. The ending was unclear on the footage but Riny was DQ'd

Time: 1 minute


Marino DQ9 Monaghan


Sandy Saddler vs Charley Riley

Very entertaining bout this one. However I only have 6 rounds of it. Riley actually beat Saddler on the inside early in the fight. He used his shorter arms to land short jolting punches on Saddler and that nullified what Saddler could do. In the second Riley hurt Saddler badly with some inside combinations but couldnt finish him off.
As it skipped forward to the 6th Saddler had the upper hand in a close infighting spurt and hurt Riley in the middle of the round but Riley came back near the end of the round and battered saddler. The 7th was similar to the sixth as Saddler got the upperhand of the round but Riley came on strong at the end.

In the last two rounds Saddler used his height and reach and got up on his toes and boxed Riley, very effectivly I may add. Spearing in right leads and using a stiff jab he backed up Riley and pressured him and when Saddler got inside he whipped in hard uppercuts. At the end of the 10th Riley came on strong but it was to late

Rounds: 1,2,6,7,9,10

Saddler MD10 Riley


Sandy Saddler vs Teddy 'Red Top' Davis

Another fairly interesting bout of Saddler's which is a surprise! Red Top started out alright keeping the bout at rnage and jumping in with a sharp jab, although he had a peculiar style of movement with his feet. Saddler forced his way in and battered his body among other things early. Nearer the end of teh fight Saddler took the fight at range and winged in hard shots at Davis ,who gallantly stood up to the shots, when Sadddler did work his way inside he was equally as effective in wholloping Davis and took a wide decision.

Just some notes on Saddler as a whole:

To me he was a good in fighter (if dirty). However I think he was most effective when he was using his long shots to set up his inside game, he seemed to land more and cause more damage although Saddler seemed to fight on the inside early in fights maybe to wear out opponents then start to use abit more range later in the fight perhaps when his opponent was tired out abit.
The 10th to 15th was Saddlers domain as he worked his long range work good and bullied inside after it. And always looked frsher.
To me H2H as a Featherweight I honestly dont see him matching up too well with the ATG's as I feel he could be hurt (although not KO'd) and could be beat on the inside by a shorter more compact puncher. Also he could be out boxed as Pep showed.


Saddler UD15 Davis

[natonic]

Oscar Muniz W12 Johnny Carter. Carter started strong as he tended to do but Muniz came on strong to get the decision. Carter won the first 3 rounds. Carter could look like a world beater for a short time but couldn't maintain the pace. Muniz tried unsuccessfully to box Carter from the outside but shifted to a body attack mid rounds. I had it 7-5 for Muniz. Very good fight.

[Sweet Pea]

I recently watched Bobby Chacon beat the stuffing out of Danny Lopez when both were up and comers. I didn't bother scoring it, but outside of the middle rounds, which I actually thought were at least competitive, Chacon dished out an ass-whooping. He took plenty of leather himself, but must've out-landed Lopez 2 to 1 at least. His return fire was on point. Almost every time Lopez tagged him, outside of the jab, he cracked him right back with an even harder shot or combination of shots. The amount of flush punches he landed in the fight was ridiculous.

Great finish as well. Almost immediately after the 9th round started Chacon hit him with a series of 1-2's that sent Lopez crashing through the ropes. Any lesser man would've been done right there, but Lopez being the warrior he was got back to his feet and resumed taking his beating. It ended on the other side of the ring, when again Chacon blitzed him with flush combinations that sent him through the ropes until the ref waved it off.

[GPater11093]

Im a big Chacon fan but I have never seen that bout will have to get it

[AlFrancis]

Im a big Chacon fan but I have never seen that bout will have to get it

Talking about that fight, you've gotta watch this...
[Only registered and activated users can see links]


This is our sport and it sometimes has very sad stories.

[GPater11093]

Youtube dosent play for me. What is it about?

[AlFrancis]

Youtube dosent play for me. What is it about?



It's a short documentary about the Lopez Chacon fight, Chacon's career and how life has treated the pair of them in retirement. Chacon's has been tragic and he now suffers with Pugilistica Dementia.

[GPater11093]

Yeh Chacon is in a bad way now, which is a shame

[GPater11093]

Wilfredo Benitez vs Carlos Palomino

Wow.

The fight started at a slow pace as Benitez jabbed and Palomino looked to get a rythm but didnt do much. Benitez looked class. Near the end of the 4th Palomino hurt Benitez and carried the fight too him and at the start of the 5th kept it on but Benitez recovered well at the 5th.

After the 5th round it became a domination by Benitez as he kept Palomino off balance with fast jabs, left hooks and lead rights. Benitez was fgighting his fight and controlling Palomino and really looking superb and sharp. As the rounds wore on Benitez began to stay on the inside more and trade with Palomino and even dominated Palomino at his own game. It was truly amazing.

In the 14th Benitez went to the ropes with a minute to go in the round and he just made Palomino miss and really ripped uppercuts back at him and did some damge.
Also it was no way a SD

I thought Benitez dominated Palomino better than Duran did.

Benitez: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15
Palomino: 4
Total: 149-136 Benitez (14-1)

Benitez SD15 Palomino

[Mantequilla]

I thought that was a 10-5'ish fight.Nowhere near as one-sided as the Duran fight imo.Still clasic laid back Benitez though.


was just watching the Michael Nunn and Herol Graham highlights on youtube, confirming my suspicion that both guys were actually essentially the same fighter.

[Sweet Pea]

I personally don't think Benitez did any kind of domination job on Palomino at all. I thought it was a relatively close fight actually, with Benitez the clear winner.

[Sweet Pea]

Yoko Gushiken vs Alfonso Lopez

This was a nice little chess-match between two of the more technically skilled little guys of the era. The bout started off tame enough, with neither fighter doing much of anything in the first round. Once they started to let their hands go a bit more, Lopez started to gain the edge over a somewhat timid Gushiken. I had him taking the next 3 rounds quite easily, as he'd begun to counter him at will with right hands and nice little combinations before Yoko had really found his groove in the fight. I think Gushiken found that if he continued to fight this way he wasn't going to get anywhere. Alfonso was just too slick to be fighting at that pace.

Over the next two rounds, Gushiken started to pick up the pressure more and more, which made for the most eventful rounds of the fight. Lopez was still probably landing the cleaner, crisper counters, but it looked clear that Gushiken was physically the stronger man. He also started firing off that sharp straight left fo the body whenever he saw the opening. Definitely his most consistent punch in the fight. Some very good exchanges in these rounds, with Gushiken started to land with a bit more regularity, including a few hard, flush shots that seemed to temporarily rock Lopez. Very close rounds.

In the last round it was more of the same. Gushiken started to pour on the pressure while Lopez looked to counter with right hands and left hook combinations. However, later in the round Gushiken finally got his timing down, landing a flush right hook on the button and flooring Lopez. Unfortunately he felt the need to crack him with another big left hand when he was on his hands and knees, which the ref did nothing about. Lopez looked capable of continuing, but was inexplicably counted out on his knees. A bit of a cheap ending following that great right hook. Still, a very nice fight.

[sweet_scientist]

Wow..... I had Benitez by a point over Palomino..... did we watch the same fight..?

Wilfred Benitez vs. Carlos Palomino: 144-143 Benitez
Palomino: 2,4,5,6,11 and 12.
Benitez: 1,3,8,9,10,14 and 15.
Rounds: 7 and 13 even.

[GPater11093]

I thought that was a 10-5'ish fight.Nowhere near as one-sided as the Duran fight imo.Still clasic laid back Benitez though.


was just watching the Michael Nunn and Herol Graham highlights on youtube, confirming my suspicion that both guys were actually essentially the same fighter.

10-5 at a stretch on my card.

I personally don't think Benitez did any kind of domination job on Palomino at all. I thought it was a relatively close fight actually, with Benitez the clear winner.

I honestly do not see that at all, i thought it really was pure one sidedness

Wow..... I had Benitez by a point over Palomino..... did we watch the same fight..?

Wilfred Benitez vs. Carlos Palomino: 144-143 Benitez
Palomino: 2,4,5,6,11 and 12.
Benitez: 1,3,8,9,10,14 and 15.
Rounds: 7 and 13 even.

Looking at the round breakdown it is vaguelly similar to the fight I described and afew of the 6-15 rounds were close-ish as Benitez coasted abit but I thought he did enough to take them.

[natonic]

Antonio Cervantes W15 Esteban Dejesus
Interesting fight. A Colombian and Puerto Rican fighting in Panama. The majority of the crowd seemed to be pulling for Dejesus. Dejesus started out pretty good (I gave him 3 of the first 4 rounds). Cervantes started to settle in and cut Dejesus in the 5th. I think this affected Dejesus but even if not cut, I think the outcome would've been the same. Cervantes was like a big telephone poll. Dejesus had trouble with his height and his jab. He gradually just wilted Dejesus. It was reported that Duran and Carlos Eleta were at ringside. I'm sure Duran would've fought Cervantes but Eleta wanted no part of that fight (as per 'Hands Of Stone'). I tend to think Duran would've taken it but Cervantes was a bad man and it would've been a tough fight. Scored this fight 147-137 for Cervantes.

Bobby Watts W10 Marvin Hagler
Good action fight. Watts was busier and seemed a little sharper than Hagler. I was surprised that I actually scored it for Watts 6-4. Watts dictated a little more with his jab and some timely movement. Hagler was pre-prime in this one and Watts was past it in the second fight. A prime Hagler would've figured this puzzle out.

[natonic]

Joe Brown W10 Wallace "Bud" Smith

Smith looked like a house a 143 1/2, Brown came in at 139 1/2. Pretty good fight. Brown just seemed to want it more. He was busier, especially with the jab and showed good ring generalship. I scored it 97-94 (6-3-1) for Brown. I thought smith made a little push in the middle of the fight but didn't sustain it. I must've been generous to Smith because the judges had it wider and one had a shutout (I didn't see that).

Thanks GreatA, good stuff.

[GPater11093]

Been meaning to watch that Natonic, will definitly after you mentioning it.

Today

Ezzard Charles vs Lloyd Marshall II

A prime Charles and a past it Marshall. The first 3 rounds Marshall showed what must have been his past skills as he got into Charles range and waged an inside war. Marshall had a low hands style with lots of bobbing and weaving and deceptivly hard to hit. His punches were solid as well. The fight was an inside war from the first bell and near the end of the round Marshall dropped Charles badly.

After the KD the fight had the same rythm but Charles started to land some solid shots also. The referee had very little to do as both guys were extremly skilled on the inside.

In the 4th the tide changed as a huge right from Charles shook Marshall badly and a beating followed. The fifth was back to the same but nearer the end of the round Charles handed out a beating.

The 6th was still an inside war but Marshall looked more and more uncertain of winning and eventually a monstorous left hook to Marshall's solar plexus finished the fight.

One thing I noted about both these guys was there tendancy to hook rather than throw straight punches, but both were so highly effective. Also their inside work was absoloutly superb and really amazing to watch.

Highlights
Time: 9 1/2 mins Rounds: 1,2,3,4,5,6

Charles KO6 Marshall


Ezzard Charles vs Joey Maxim IV

Pretty much a routine defence of Charles's heavyweight title. Unfortunatly only a short highlight version.

Charles pretty much dominated the fight with controlled combinations and a superb right hand in every round but the 9th. In the 9th Maxim lanbded a good counter left hook and hurt Charles and tried to finish him off to no avail but won the round.

The difference I noticed about Charles between the Marshall fight and this was how more relaxed and steady he was. He kept his range and looked to figure out Maxim rather than engage all out. His long range boxing skills were as good as his inside work and he dominated Maxim in both respects. Very good all round performance.

Highlights

Time: 10 1/2 mins Rounds: 1,5,9,15

Charles UD15 Maxim


Ezzard Charles vs Jimmy Bivins V

This fight generally gets disregarded as a bad fight. This was a Light Heavyweight Charles against the underrated Jimmy Bivins.

Charles looking to keep the bout at range started off well circling Bivins and landing hard shots as Bivins attempted to come inside. Despite Bivins coming forward Charles was iniating the action in a great show of ring generalship.

As the bout wore on Bivins got inside more and Charles responded in turn as both men traded combinations and solid shots. Bivins work of his jab seemed to help him get inside. I did think the referee was slightly premature in his break ups of the clinches, as both men were fighting inside and both men are very skillful inside fighters.

From the highlights it looked a very hard fought close fight but with Charles edging it.

Highlights

Time: 26 mins Rounds: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Charles UD10 Bivins


Tony Canzoneri vs Jackie 'Kid' Berg

Excellant wee scrap this. Berg was the taller of the two and kept a tight guard and looked to advance on Canzoneri behind a stiff jab and follow up combinations. Canzoneri with his Fitzsimmons-esque stance used his spearing left hand to controll the range and brought Berg beautifully onto counter shots in terms of left hooks and right hands. The fluidity of Canzoneri was bueatiful as he slipped and bobbed under Berg's shots and came back with his own. In the 3rd Canzoneri brought Berg onto a counter and dropped him face frst on the matt for a clean KO.

One thing that occured to me in this bout was that Canzoneri had a very 'old fashioned' style and stance with his hands low etc.... and Berg had a very modern stance with his high hands and combination punching. However Canzoneri dealt with him easily. Does this mean we underrate the old timers chances against our 'modern fighters'?

Canzoneri: 1,2
Berg:
Total: 20-18 Canzoneri (2-0)

Canzoneri KO3 Berg


Max Schmeling vs Mickey Walker

Excellant and epic struggle here. Walker full of bravey almost defiantly takes a beating from Schmeling. The bout starts with Schmeling picking off Walker and right at the end of teh round he drops Walker with a right hand, Walker leaps up and impersionates Michael Johnson as he sprints towards Schmeling but the bell rings.

The fight takes a rythm as Walker looks to use his speed and step into Schmeling with hard punches but Schmeling looks to pick him off with right hands and uppercuts and takes controll, despite Walkers best efforts that make it competitive, but you see it is in vain.

The 8th round is one sided as Schmeling batters Walker around the ring and drops him twice, the first evokes an enthusiastic response as Walker mounts a charge of the Light Brigade at him which leads to a second knockdown which fails to evoke any such bravery. Walker broken, beaten, bloodied and battered walks back to his corner and the fight is stopped due to Walker not being able to see out of his eyes.

Did not score this

Schmeling RTD8 Walker


Orlando Canizales vs Kelvin Seabrookes I

Surprisingly my first glimpse of Canizales. And this bout was an excellant one.

Canizales started fast with lots of movement and sharp punching. A perfectly timed right hand badly hurt and dropped Seabrookes who just got up. Canizales turned on the pressure with clinical punching but Kelvin held in till the bell.
After that Canizalez took controll with sharp movement and even sharper punching.
In the mid rounds Seabrookes changed his tactics and started landing some more shots but Canizalez quickly adjusted and re-won command of the battle. This was kept till the 15th.

In the 15th Canizales came out and quickly landed another well placed right, reminiscent of Harold Johnsons poleaxe of Paul Andrews. unbelieveably Kelvin got up but this time Canizales clinical finshing finally forced the ref to stop the bout.

On Canizalez I was deeply impressed. A very complete fighter with excellant lateral movement and combiantions. His timing and accuracy is superb as his jab and feints. One thing I really liked was his little pivots left or right (although mainly right) where he could get away from his opponent but still stay in punching range. His ability to just take a step to offset himself from the centre of his opponent was awesome. He landed real quality shots which he combined to head and body. Overral I was impressed. And amazingly Canizalez did all this with two broken hands from round 2 onwards. Also I loved the way of how fluid he was when inside and trading.

Canizalez: 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14
Seabrookes: 6 KD'd 1, 15
Total: 139-125 Canizalez (14-1)

Canizales TKO15 Seabrookes


Orlando Canizales vs Kelvin Seabrookes II

The same as the first fight. The action was slightly more competive however and both guys looked improved. I was more impressed with Canizalez patientce and cleverness, as he looked to pressure Seabrookes more often and really forced the fight at times (where I think he is more effective).

As said the fight was similar with Canizales dominating early but in the mid rounds Seabrookes coming on then Canizales controlling the bout till the end.

In the end Seabrookes face was a mess and some clinical punching from Orlando finsihed matters.

Canizales: 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10
Seabrookes: 6,
Total: 99-91 Canizales (9-1)

Canizales TKO11 Seabrookes

[Gesta]

Duran vs Buchanan

10 - 8
10 - 9
10 - 9
10 - 9
10 - 9
10 - 9
9 - 10
10 - 9
9 - 10
9 - 10
10 - 9
10 - 9
10 - 9


Buchanan just could not keep Duran of him either with his jab or left hook counters, in the early rounds he was just caught in the storm that is Duran. The rounds Buchanan won he showed better lateral movement, a good jab and some good left hook counters.

The rest off the bout Duran showed to much effective pressure and had Buchanan going straight back and on the ropes and hit Buchanan with some good shots. Duran did not look like losing the bout at all.

In the first round Duran put Buchanan down, looked more off a glancing blow and Ken did not look like He was hurt, but He did go down.

I think I remember some one saying that Duran was behind at the time of the stoppage, I did not see this at all. I could not give Ken more than five rounds. I have no problem with the stoppage, looked like Duran was winning with no problem and would off kept on with His great perfomance.

Great win by Duran.

Tomorrow Tyson vs Spinks

[Maxmomer]

Hopkins - Echols I
Hopkins brilliantly dissected Echols. It was tough and competitive for the first two thirds, but Hopkins was just picking Echols apart throughout the whole fight. His defense was brilliant, he boxed beautifully, he countered beautifully. Great fight, great performance. The best moment, though, came from Echol's trainer "He's been runnin the whole fight, judges don't like runnin" Echols gets wobbled from a huge right hand and Hopkins jumps on him "Uh oh"

Hopkins - Echols II
Another entertaining fight. A wild and dirty foul-fest. I thought this one was more competitive than the first, but it was Hopkins fight all the way. When Echols is dazed and looking at the ref and Hopkins just clocks him with a straight right, that was one of the best things I've ever seen. I watched that so many times. Hilarious.

[Drew101]

Micheal Spinks vs Marvin Johnson

Fun fight, with Johnson pressing and Spinks working the jab nicely and countering when possible. Had Spinks up 2-1, although all three rounds were pretty close. Johnson actually appeared to be having more success at least in terms of closing the distance and turning it into his kind of fight...Right until the point when Spinks unleashed one of the very best uppercuts that any boxer has ever thrown.:D

[natonic]

Alexis Arguello TKO 8 Leonel Hernandez
Arguello was devastating in this fight. Hernandez was no chump. He kind of reminded me of Juan Laportewith quicker hands but not as heavy a hitter. This is the fastest I've seen Arguello's hands and reflexes. I'm not talking Camacho like speed, but you couldn't watch this fight and call him slow. I gave Hernandez one of the first 7 rounds. Arguello started fairly strong and picked up steam. He converted a couple jab-hook-right cross combinations. Beautiful stuff.

[WhataRock]

Micheal Spinks vs Marvin Johnson

Fun fight, with Johnson pressing and Spinks working the jab nicely and countering when possible. Had Spinks up 2-1, although all three rounds were pretty close. Johnson actually appeared to be having more success at least in terms of closing the distance and turning it into his kind of fight...Right until the point when Spinks unleashed one of the very best uppercuts that any boxer has ever thrown.:D

I like some of those body shots he dug into Marvin...a right hand to the gut just before the knockout sticks in my mind.

[sweet_scientist]

Just watched Meldrick Taylor's fight with Aaron Davis. Meldrick started off well with left and right hooks to the body and head, and he actually rocked Davis on a couple of occasions, but seemed to tire late and let Davis back into it. Davis' jab was probably his best punch for the fight, but he didn't let his hands go enough or put enough pressure on Meldrick to really expose him in the later rounds. If he took a few more chances and started roughousing Meldrick a bit, it could have ended more favourably for him.

In any case, the fight was close and there were quite a few rounds I thought could have gone to either man.

Meldrick Taylor vs. Aaron Davis: 116-114 Taylor
Davis: 6,9 and 12.
Taylor: 1,3,4,7 and 8.
Rounds 2 ( 9-9 ), 5,10 and 11 even.

[natonic]

Angel Espada W15 Clyde Gray This was an entertaining and technical fight. Gray used some interesting tactics. He would move away from Espada's right hand (nothing mind boggling there), but he would also move the fight to the edge of the ring. It wasn't that he had his back to the ropes, but he would position his right side near the ropes. I gave Gray 3 of the first 4 rounds with 1 even. Espada cut Gray in the 5th and it changed the complexion of the fight. Espada come on in the championship rounds but inexplicably gave away the last rounds in a close fight. I had it a draw (7-7-1).

Salvador Sanchez TKO 13 Danny Lopez Typical Lopez slow start. I don't think he or anybody had much clue of Sanchez's greatness. The telecast said the fight was in a 16 foot ring. Amazing display by Sanchez. Never had a sense that Lopez was in this fight. I gave Lopez 2 rounds.

Salvador Sanchez TKO 14 Danny Lopez Lopez started faster in the second fight and gained Sanchez's respect a bit. The brilliant Sanchez changed his tactics a bit and stayed outside and a little more cautious this time. Sanchez still banked rounds and pot shotted Lopez and started dropping some heavy lumber in the late rounds. I still only gave Lopez 2 rounds in this one.

Donald Curry Tko 4 Colin Jones The Cobra at the height of his powers. I'd forgotten how one sided this fight was against a very good Jones. Jones was overmatched and just a bad styles matchup for him anyway. This version of Curry would've been more than respectable against ANY welterweight.

[sweet_scientist]

Watched a couple of Sandy Saddler's fights today: against Del Flanagan and Charley Riley.

Fighting with a Willie Pep style, Del Flanagan flashed some pretty fast hands and feet. Del was actually from Willie Pep's camp and no doubt had the blueprint for how to fight Sandy set from Willie himself. Flanagan repeatedly was able to land the jab/right-hand combination on Saddler, who stalked Flanagan futiley trying to rip under his ribcage with the murderous left uppercut of his. Saddler seemed to be coming on towards the end a little, but Flanagan was too far ahead to be pegged back.

With that said, had this fight not been in Flanagan's backyard, there's a good chance he would have been disqualified. Every time Saddler got within distance of Flanagan, Del would flagrantly hold on for dear life and not allow any in-fighting to occur. There was more punch and grab in this fight than Hopkins-Wright, and it's unlikely that he would have been allowed to hold as much as he did on neutral ground.

I had Flanagan taking the fight by a point, but if I was the ref, I would have docked at least a couple points, thereby giving Sandy the win.

Sandy's fight with Charlie Riley was a much more fan friendly affair. Riley, a Frankie ****** type non-stop punching machine, stood toe to toe with Saddler and ripped hooks and uppercuts for the duration of the bout. He rocked Saddler pretty good in the second round to the thunderous applause of the crowd, but Saddler re-composed himself quickly and from then on proceeded to tear Riley up with those famed uppercuts of his.

Though Saddler clearly won the fight, Riley put up a much more gallant effort than Flanagan, who put on a display post prime Camacho would have been somewhat disgusted with.

Anyway, my cards:


Sandy Saddler vs. Del Flanagan vs: 96-95 Flanagan
Saddler: 2,5,9 and 10.
Flanagan: 3,4,6,7 and 8.
Round 1 even.


Sandy Saddler vs. Charley Riley: 97-94 Saddler
Riley: 1,2 and 6.
Saddler: 3,4,5,7,8 and 9.
Round 10 even.

[bodhi]

Just watched Napoles-Urbina II. Damned Napoles was a monster at lw. Him and Duran rthere would be a thrilling fight.

[Gesta]

Hearns vs Leonard 2

Hearns Leonard
1\ 10 - 10
2\ 10 - 09
3\ 10 - 08
4\ 10 - 09
5\ 09 - 10
6\ 10 - 09
7\ 10 - 09
8\ 09 - 10
9\ 09 - 10
10\ 09 - 10
11\ 10 - 08
12\ 09 -10

Hearns 115 - Leonard 112

[lora]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Nice short fight.Watson would do extremely well today on the P4P lists, imo he was at least as good a textbook technician as someone like Marquez.

[sweet_scientist]

Watched the second Dick Tiger-Jose Torres fight today (which was missing the 14th round) and I came away with this card:

Dick Tiger vs. Jose Torres II: 135-133 Tiger (round 14 missing)
Torres:1,3,12,13 and 15.
Tiger: 2,4,5,6,7,10 and 11.
Rounds 8 and 9 even.

Torres started off well and looked real strong, walking forward behind a super tight high guard. Tiger was wailing away but not much was getting through and when Torres punched, Tiger was getting moved from the force of the blows.

Tiger however was determined to tire Torres out and stood his ground against the much bigger man, working at a high pace Torres could not keep up with. After about 5 rounds Torres started becoming somewhat sluggish and Tiger started to dominate the action with his tough trench warfare approach.

Bu just as it appeared Tiger was going to walk away with an easy decision, Torres somehow found the energy to mount a late rally. He really wanted this fight - BADLY - as could be seen from his post fight reaction when the decision was announced against him (he was absolutely livid). In the late rounds Torres started landing some excellent left hooks and flurries, and whilst Tiger continued to throw punches pretty much non-stop, there was nothing on them by the end.

Unfortunately for Torres, he left his run a little late. He got close, but for me, Tiger took this clearly. The rounds I had even were more arguable for Tiger than for Torres imo.

There was a bit of a fracas after the fight too. Quite a few evidently felt Torres got the rough end of it...

[sweet_scientist]

Watched the first Tiger-Torres fight as well. In contrast to the second fight, which was full of action, this was a snorefest. Both guys looking to counterpunch and not getting much done in that regard.

Whilst I think Torres won it, it was one of those fights that neither really deserved to win. If I wasn't being pedantic, I would have called it a draw.

As it was, I scored it thus:

Dick Tiger vs. Jose Torres I: 145-142 Torres
Tiger: 6,9,10,13 and 14.
Torres: 1,2,3,4,5,7,8 and 15.
Rounds 11 and 12 even.


Can't understand how two judges had cards so wide for Tiger.... Must have decided the winner before the fight started...

[GPater11093]

Watched the first Tiger-Torres fight as well. In contrast to the second fight, which was full of action, this was a snorefest. Both guys looking to counterpunch and not getting much done in that regard.

Whilst I think Torres won it, it was one of those fights that neither really deserved to win. If I wasn't being pedantic, I would have called it a draw.

As it was, I scored it thus:

Disc Tiger vs. Jose Torres I: 145-142 Torres
Tiger: 6,9,10,13 and 14.
Torres: 1,2,3,4,5,7,8 and 15.
Rounds 11 and 12 even.


Can't understand how two judges had cards so wide for Tiger.... Must have decided the winner before the fight started...

Me and you disagree alot, I had it a Tiger win. Although it is interesting to hear contrasting opinions. Unfortunatly I cant offer too much opinions because as you say the bout was fairly void of action and it is a while since I watched it. Im going to watch the second one today. I think generally with bouts of little action they are hard to score.

Tiger: 1,2,4,6,7,9,10,12,13,14
Torres: 3,5,8,11,15
Total: 145-140 Tiger (10-5)




Also I watched Bernabe Concepcion vs Mario Santiago from last weekend. Interesting tactical affair with an amazing last round had it 95-94 Concepcion

[sweet_scientist]

Me and you disagree alot, I had it a Tiger win. Although it is interesting to hear contrasting opinions. Unfortunatly I cant offer too much opinions because as you say the bout was fairly void of action and it is a while since I watched it. Im going to watch the second one today. I think generally with bouts of little action they are hard to score.

Tiger: 1,2,4,6,7,9,10,12,13,14
Torres: 3,5,8,11,15
Total: 145-140 Tiger (10-5)

Well, possibly I'm in my own world, but I just can't see what Tiger did to win this staring contest by a margin like that. I would be pissed off to lose a title like that.... let alone by cards of 10-5 or 10-4-1 as another judge had it...

Interested to hear what some others think on this one. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked...

[GPater11093]

Well, possibly I'm in my own world, but I just can't see what Tiger did to win this staring contest by a margin like that. I would be pissed off to lose a title like that.... let alone by cards of 10-5 or 10-4-1 as another judge had it...

Interested to hear what some others think on this one. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked...

I'll rewatch it sometime. But like I say in an inactive fight you often get odd scores because of the difficulty to judge the rounds.

One thing what is great about this thread is you can see complete difference of opinions that help you understand odd scorecards etc...

[sweet_scientist]

I'll rewatch it sometime. But like I say in an inactive fight you often get odd scores because of the difficulty to judge the rounds.

One thing what is great about this thread is you can see complete difference of opinions that help you understand odd scorecards etc...

True, true...

[GPater11093]

True, true...

I think you are on CBZ, in the Ron Lipton thread he was breifly discussing these fights and he seemed to think Tiger won the first fight and the second was a lot closer.

[sweet_scientist]

I think you are on CBZ, in the Ron Lipton thread he was breifly discussing these fights and he seemed to think Tiger won the first fight and the second was a lot closer.

Yes, that seems to be the consensus...

If any fight is generally regarded as contentious it is the second one (where the Puerto Rican fans tore the place up when the decision came down), though strangely enough I thought Tiger won that one...

[GPater11093]

Yes, that seems to be the consensus...

If any fight is generally regarded as contentious it is the second one (where the Puerto Rican fans tore the place up when the decision came down), though strangely enough I thought Tiger won that one...

Quite ironic, Ill have to watch it and see.

[GPater11093]

Dick Tiger vs Jose Torres II

Early on, Torres kept a high guard but Tiger showcased his mobility and landed some good body punches as he lept in and out of range. His head punches were mainly blocked but the body shots got through. Torres did land some nice shots but I felt Tiger was able to take the sting from them by moving backwards.

As the momentum changed Tiger stayed in the trenches with Torres and Torres was able to get off better punches and Tiger was landing about the same rate as earlier, but Torres's work looked better IMO.

In the late goings Tiger was still on top with fast combinations but Torres was battling back hard, I felt Tigers edge in handspeed was letting him get off first the whole way through but was most important in these crucial last rounds.

The fight was similar to how SS described it just we picked up on different things IMO and have slightly different scoring criterea. I liked Tigers ring generalship and fast combinations, also I was scoring Tigers body shots early doors. (not sure if SS was) Again though it was a very close fight and scores could vary in certain rounds.

Also round 14 was missing so i scored it even.

Tiger: 2,3,4,5,6,9,15
Torres:1,7,8,10,11,12,13
Total: 143-143 DRAW (7-7-1)

Excellant scrap though, top class skills and a high pace.

[Sweet Pea]

I watched Yuh's fight with Son, Rojas vs Numata, and Jiro Watanabe vs Gustavo Ballas. Not really the type of fights you need to score. There's already a couple threads on two of the fights, so I'll just comment in the latter.

Probably Watanabe's most impressive performance, against the best fighter he faced up until Roman at the tail end of his career. Great technical scrap. Ballas was your typical top class Argentian. Extremely well schooled technique perfectly suited to his stocky stature, similar to a Victor Galindez. Whilst he stood more flat-footed, looking to slip and roll shots for countering and body punching opportunities, Watanabe played ring general superbly. Jiro was really letting his hands go in this one, which is what gave him the advantage throughout most of a closely contested fight. He'd use his footwork to dictate the range and pop in and out with 3-4 punch combinations. He was throwing everything in the southpaw handbook. To his credit, Ballas's defense was very sound, and he was in the fight up until the very end. A real contrast of styles in this one, and a great fight to watch, fought at a very high pace with both fighters being fully aware throughout.

The stoppage seemed a little unnecessary to me, though. Apparently the corner threw in the towel after the 9th round, at the very end of which saw Jiro unloading straight shots on Ballas in the corner, most of which landed, some of which were slipped. Not entirely sure what to make of it, but it most certainly wasn't a clean KO, as it was listed as. Either way, great performance from both men, and the best I've ever seen Jiro look.

[teeto]

I watched Yuh's fight with Son, Rojas vs Numata, and Jiro Watanabe vs Gustavo Ballas. Not really the type of fights you need to score. There's already a couple threads on two of the fights, so I'll just comment in the latter.

Probably Watanabe's most impressive performance, against the best fighter he faced up until Roman at the tail end of his career. Great technical scrap. Ballas was your typical top class Argentian. Extremely well schooled technique perfectly suited to his stocky stature, similar to a Victor Galindez. Whilst he stood more flat-footed, looking to slip and roll shots for countering and body punching opportunities, Watanabe played ring general superbly. Jiro was really letting his hands go in this one, which is what gave him the advantage throughout most of a closely contested fight. He'd use his footwork to dictate the range and pop in and out with 3-4 punch combinations. He was throwing everything in the southpaw handbook. To his credit, Ballas's defense was very sound, and he was in the fight up until the very end. A real contrast of styles in this one, and a great fight to watch, fought at a very high pace with both fighters being fully aware throughout.

The stoppage seemed a little unnecessary to me, though. Apparently the corner threw in the towel after the 9th round, at the very end of which saw Jiro unloading straight shots on Ballas in the corner, most of which landed, some of which were slipped. Not entirely sure what to make of it, but it most certainly wasn't a clean KO, as it was listed as. Either way, great performance from both men, and the best I've ever seen Jiro look.
Hey Pea, just on Rojas vs Numata, what a spectacle.

[GPater11093]

Carlos Ortiz vs Kenny Lane II

Was actually shaping up to be an alright fight, then it got stopped. Can't reall say much more.

Ortiz TKO2 Lane


Carlos Ortiz vs Battling Torres

Fantastic fight. Early doors Ortiz sizes up the younger and aggresive Torres with a jab, and soon transforms this measuring jab into a solid right hand that really stunts Torres. Torres then starts to wise up and presses the fight even more, Ortiz responds with clinical right hands and left hooks (head and body). The finish KO is class, a left hook to the body, straight right to head, then a left hook to the chin. But Torres was game as hell and made it very entertaining.

My favrouite Ortiz performance, he was more fluid and mobile, than he was post Brown, and had some breathtaking combinations.

Ortiz: 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9
Torres: 7
Total: 89-82 Ortiz (8-1)

Ortiz KO10 Torres


Carlos Ortiz vs Johnny Bizzaro

Surprised when ESB's very own Chinx Kid's father was introduced in the pre fight introductions.

Another interesting scrap.

Bizzaro early used movement and odd punches like lead rights and uppercuts whilst moving, and had trouble zeroing them in and finding the right timing for them. Ortiz seemed pretty sharp early on but Bizzaro's movement was tricky but Ortiz thudded in good body shots, although IMO he neglected his jab.

In the mid rounds Bizzaro started to find his range and timing and really started to be successful with his unorthodox tactics as he circled Ortiz and jumped in with odd shots and leaped out again. Ortiz looked to counter but was made to miss, and Bizzaro was impressing Tommy Loughran the commentater.

In the 12th Ortiz caught Bizzaro leaping in with a massive left hook and Bizzaro was gone, Ortiz a great finisher piled on the shots with brilliant hooks and dropped Bizzaro, Johnny bravely got up but the ensuing onslaught forced the ref to stop it.

Ortiz: 2,3,4,5,8,9
Bizzaro:1,6,7,10,11
Total: 105-104 Ortiz (6-5)

Ortiz TKO12 Bizzaro


Bob Foster vs Dick Tiger

The appearance of these two was comical, Tiger the squat powerfully built midget; to Foster the lanky, lean figure of a praying mantis. Together it was like Michael Jordan and Gary Coleman.

The bout started slow with Foster rattling off a single jab, very infrequently. Towards the end of round 2 Tiger advanced with some tasty combinations to win the round. Foster looked troubled when put under pressure.

Foster however appeared to be wearing ice skates on the end of his long legs as they every so often slipped out, giving the impression of a giraffe on roller blades.

In the third Foster began to double up his jab or land the right hand after the jab, this was effective and when Tiger came inside he had a right uppercut waiting for him behind the long jab. At the start of the third Foster literally picked up Tiger and spun round and dropped him.

The fourth was the same as Foster kept it long but a flush right hand that made Tiger give ground a missed right followed by a left hook stunned the Nigerian and another right hand followed by a left hook landed on target and folded Tiger like a accordian. The best KO i have seen.

Tiger: 1,2
Foster:3
Total: 29-28 Tiger (2-1)

Foster KO4 Tiger

[teeto]

You really impressed with Ortiz' form Greg? Me and my mate were talking the other day, and we picked him over Mayweather. We both rate Mayweather though.

[GPater11093]

You really impressed with Ortiz' form Greg? Me and my mate were talking the other day, and we picked him over Mayweather. We both rate Mayweather though.

Yeh definitly. On both counts.

What I like about Ortiz especially the young version. He combined Matador and Bull, he could box and when he found his opening he became the bull and worked the opening.

Brilliant body puncher aswell.

Although as he got older IMO he got a bit more refined technically but alot less mobile.

[teeto]

Yeh definitly. On both counts.

What I like about Ortiz especially the young version. He combined Matador and Bull, he could box and when he found his opening he became the bull and worked the opening.

Brilliant body puncher aswell.

Although as he got older IMO he got a bit more refined technically but alot less mobile.
Nice post. I agree as well, on what footage i've seen myself. He can win what some call 'snoozefests', but i can watch that kinda stuff allday. He's strong as hell as well isn't he?

[GPater11093]

Nice post. I agree as well, on what footage i've seen myself. He can win what some call 'snoozefests', but i can watch that kinda stuff allday. He's strong as hell as well isn't he?

Hes in some close tactica thrillers like the one with Bizzaro, he takes his time and exploits his openings, but he is at his best when he can combine the Bull and Matador roles when fighting a 'Bull' so to speak.

I was impressed with his strength, especially the way he would force a guy back with strong body shots, to force him onto the ropes then release a combo to the head.

[WhataRock]

Eusebio Pedroza KO13 Patrick Ford.

Very impressive showing from Pedroza considering how hard Ford had pushed Sanchez less then 6 months before.

Ford was a massive featherweight...nearly 5'11 with an ungodly reach. He even made the Pedroza look small, and Eusebio was a very big featherweight himself.

I gave Ford the 2nd and the 5th..the 3rd and 6th even with the rest going to Pedroza.

It was a pretty entertaining start..The 3rd and 6th especially were very action packed, thats why I couldnt split them. Pedroza having big 4th and 7th rounds however to prevent Pat getting momentum. But they were also very exciting rounds.

Once Pedroza got on top the last half of the fight was a bit dull...Ford's offensive output was limited to him mostly flicking out his jab and backpedalling. And Pedroza was pretty conservative with his punching until exploding over the last 45sec-1min to make sure he banked the round.
Some brutal body punching on display from Pedroza that night (and quite a few sneaky kidney punches aswell)

End was fairly abrupt really...Not much in the round until Pedroza's absolutely tears into Ford in the last 30secs..Pat slumps to the canvas and sits on his butt to be counted out just before the bell rings for the end of the 13th.

I think it was more a combination of fatigue and frustration..Pedroza was very slippery all night, making him miss big of many occasions..though Ford got in a couple of big loopy right hands earlier on in the fight that I remember vividly.

I reckon its a must to see if you want to see prime Pedroza in full flight.

[GPater11093]

Pedroza is one guy I need to see more of, him and Ernesto Marcel.

What fights do you recommend of them?

[WhataRock]

Ive only seen the Arguello and Duran fights of Marcel's greg...but he impresses me so much in them.

Im really going to endeavor to get the Gomez and Shibata fights ASAP...as I have heard he looks stellar in them aswell.

As for Pedroza..Saw his fight with Aba again the other week and thats a pretty brutal showing, though it was against a terribly overmatched opponant with an ending that leaves a bit of a bad taste in your mouth because Aba gets shoved out of the ring more or less and seems to get pretty fucked up by it..its on youtube.

I really enjoyed his two fights with Lockridge..though in them you not only see his awesomeness but his shortcomings aswell. As he tends to give to many rounds away in both of those fights.
I didnt really see controversy in either of them but some people do. You can see earlier in the thread me and sweet_scientist discuss how close so many rounds were and that can lead to some discrepancies between cards.

[Flea Man]

Ive only seen the Arguello and Duran fights of Marcel's greg...but he impresses me so much in them.

Im really going to endeavor to get the Gomez and Shibata fights ASAP...as I have heard he looks stellar in them aswell.

As for Pedroza..Saw his fight with Aba again the other week and thats a pretty brutal showing, though it was against a terribly overmatched opponant with an ending that leaves a bit of a bad taste in your mouth because Aba gets shoved out of the ring more or less and seems to get pretty fucked up by it..its on youtube.

I really enjoyed his two fights with Lockridge..though in them you not only see his awesomeness but his shortcomings aswell. As he tends to give to many rounds away in both of those fights.
I didnt really see controversy in either of them but some people do. You can see earlier in the thread me and sweet_scientist discuss how close so many rounds were and that can lead to some discrepancies between cards.


Want these too.

RB must be contacted:good

[GPater11093]

Ive only seen the Arguello and Duran fights of Marcel's greg...but he impresses me so much in them.

Im really going to endeavor to get the Gomez and Shibata fights ASAP...as I have heard he looks stellar in them aswell.

As for Pedroza..Saw his fight with Aba again the other week and thats a pretty brutal showing, though it was against a terribly overmatched opponant with an ending that leaves a bit of a bad taste in your mouth because Aba gets shoved out of the ring more or less and seems to get pretty fucked up by it..its on youtube.

I really enjoyed his two fights with Lockridge..though in them you not only see his awesomeness but his shortcomings aswell. As he tends to give to many rounds away in both of those fights.
I didnt really see controversy in either of them but some people do. You can see earlier in the thread me and sweet_scientist discuss how close so many rounds were and that can lead to some discrepancies between cards.

Thanks, will check them out.

[natonic]

Eusebio Pedroza KO13 Patrick Ford.

Very impressive showing from Pedroza considering how hard Ford had pushed Sanchez less then 6 months before.

Ford was a massive featherweight...nearly 5'11 with an ungodly reach. He even made the Pedroza look small, and Eusebio was a very big featherweight himself.

I gave Ford the 2nd and the 5th..the 3rd and 6th even with the rest going to Pedroza.

It was a pretty entertaining start..The 3rd and 6th especially were very action packed, thats why I couldnt split them. Pedroza having big 4th and 7th rounds however to prevent Pat getting momentum. But they were also very exciting rounds.

Once Pedroza got on top the last half of the fight was a bit dull...Ford's offensive output was limited to him mostly flicking out his jab and backpedalling. And Pedroza was pretty conservative with his punching until exploding over the last 45sec-1min to make sure he banked the round.
Some brutal body punching on display from Pedroza that night (and quite a few sneaky kidney punches aswell)

End was fairly abrupt really...Not much in the round until Pedroza's absolutely tears into Ford in the last 30secs..Pat slumps to the canvas and sits on his butt to be counted out just before the bell rings for the end of the 13th.

I think it was more a combination of fatigue and frustration..Pedroza was very slippery all night, making him miss big of many occasions..though Ford got in a couple of big loopy right hands earlier on in the fight that I remember vividly.

I reckon its a must to see if you want to see prime Pedroza in full flight.

That's the best Pedroza effort I've seen. For GPater: If you can see beauty in a classic street mugging, then check out Pedroza - Laporte.

[atberry]

Benn-Eubank II


Benn: 4, 6 (9-9), 7, 8, 10.

Eubank: 1, 2, 3, 5, 9, 11.

Even: 12.

(Benn deducted 1pt for fouls)


Eubank cruised the first 3 rounds but by the 4th and 5th rounds still hadn't got his jab going, which was a mistake. Benn took the 4th and 10th more cleanly and clearly than either fighter took any of the rounds. Eubank edged the 9th and 11th by getting his jab working. The 5th, 6th and 12th saw some nasty heavy exchanges but generally sloppy by their standards- both seemed to have stamina issues on the night out there.

Benn finally got to grips with Eubank's awkward defense to take the 7th and 8th, albeit in a scrappy manner. Eubank never really got to grips with Benn's improved defense, but wouldn't have needed to had he got his jab working by the 4th, in which case he may of even had an easyish win. The best punch of the fight by far was landed by Benn in the 10th, a leaping left hook. But other left hooks earlier that were too low caused a point deduction for Nigel.


Final Score:
Eubank- 115
Benn- 113



General thoughts are that Eubank was moving well and trying to be sharp and stiff, but he just wasn't his usual slick self that night. While Benn's head and upper body movement was better than ever and caused it to appear as if Chris was throwing 12 rounds of inaccurate shoeshiners. I don't think Benn did enough quantity of quality offensive work, however, even though he appeared a little more 'on' and a lot less 'off', than Eubank that night. All-in-all a poor fight by their standards, with far too much falling and clutching thoughout.

[AlFrancis]

Just watched 2 of my favourites. Carlos Zarate vs Alberto Davila. Davila gives Carlos plenty od trouble here despite a 5 inch height difference landing some lovely shots on the stalking Zarate appearing to wobble him at one point. Zarate keeps up the pressure and starts getting through to Alberto by the 7th. Most of his success is now coming from his inside work, lovely short uppercuts and hooks from the taller man. The end comes suddenly when Davila goes down in the corner after taking a combination of pinpoint shots ending with a straight right. Davila gets up but the referee stops it due to a cut. It looked to me that the writing was on the wall for Alberto anyway.
A very impressive performance from Zarate for me who's competition is sometimes critiscized.

[Flea Man]

Just watched 2 of my favourites. Carlos Zarate vs Alberto Davila. Davila gives Carlos plenty od trouble here despite a 5 inch height difference landing some lovely shots on the stalking Zarate appearing to wobble him at one point. Zarate keeps up the pressure and starts getting through to Alberto by the 7th. Most of his success is now coming from his inside work, lovely short uppercuts and hooks from the taller man. The end comes suddenly when Davila goes down in the corner after taking a combination of pinpoint shots ending with a straight right. Davila gets up but the referee stops it due to a cut. It looked to me that the writing was on the wall for Alberto anyway.
A very impressive performance from Zarate for me who's competition is sometimes critiscized.

Agreed. Davila was a tidy operator who wouldn't be beaten at 118 today IMO

Haven't seen the full Pintor fight though; you reckon Davila was in with a shout didn't ya Al?

[AlFrancis]

Agreed. Davila was a tidy operator who wouldn't be beaten at 118 today IMO

Haven't seen the full Pintor fight though; you reckon Davila was in with a shout didn't ya Al?

It's a fucking ******* on a par wth the Pintor Gomez fight. I've got it on DVD.

[Flea Man]

It's a fucking ******* on a par wth the Pintor Gomez fight. I've got it on DVD.

Apparently c r a c k e r is a racist term in the states:rofl

I'll get hold of it once I get off holiday. Can't afford fuck all til then. Maybe do a trade with ya or something pal?

[AlFrancis]

Apparently c r a c k e r is a racist term in the states:rofl

I'll get hold of it once I get off holiday. Can't afford fuck all til then. Maybe do a trade with ya or something pal?


Yes, I'll send you it with the full Harada fight as well.

[Flea Man]

Yes, I'll send you it with the full Harada fight as well.

Shit hot :good

Once I get back off holiday I'll be minted:DI'll sort out some stuff to send ya in return mush:good

[AlFrancis]

:goodShit hot :good

Once I get back off holiday I'll be minted:DI'll sort out some stuff to send ya in return mush

:good

[GPater11093]

That's the best Pedroza effort I've seen. For GPater: If you can see beauty in a classic street mugging, then check out Pedroza - Laporte.

Will check it out.

Just checking through some old DVDs and I reckon I have Davila vs Pintor will just have to try find the disk.

[anarci]

Pedroza is one guy I need to see more of, him and Ernesto Marcel.

What fights do you recommend of them? Watch his fight with Bashew Sibacca brutal ko scored by Pedroza who was known more as a boxer.

[GPater11093]

Thanks Anarci will seek it out.

[jaffay]

Holmes - Spinks I

1. 10:9
2. 10:9
3. 9:10
4. 9:10
5 10:9
6. 9:10
7. 9:10
8. 10:9
9. 10:9
10. 10:9
11. 9:10
12. 9:10
13. 10:9
14. 10:9
15. 9:10

143:142 Holmes

[thejokerswild]

A whole heap of RJJ.

One in particular was w/ Hopkins. Their next matchup, regardless of their age and deteriation will be an interesting for anyone who cares about the science!

[teeto]

Just got round To Paul Williams-Sergio Martinez now. I had Williams by 2 points, but it really depends on how i scored round 11, i ignored the commentary and didn't replay the round, i gave it to PW. Great fight this between two world class operators who both have their flaws and the styles to expose such flaws in their opponent. I would have loved this to be a 15 rounder.

[AlFrancis]

Don't remember ever seeing this but I do remember listening to it on the radio.
Pat Cowdell vs Salvador Sanchez.
Just going into the 10th of an absorbing fight and I've got Cowdell 1 round up at 4-3-2. Gonna watch the rest tomorrow because it's taking ages to load on youtube. Full report tomorrow.

[GPater11093]

Al I'm going to watch that tommorow. Got to bady sit my two wee sisters so they can watch it aswell.

[lora]

Cowdell made great use of feints in that fight, to cover up for the disparity in power and offensive ability between the two.

[teeto]

Don't remember ever seeing this but I do remember listening to it on the radio.
Pat Cowdell vs Salvador Sanchez.
Just going into the 10th of an absorbing fight and I've got Cowdell 1 round up at 4-3-2. Gonna watch the rest tomorrow because it's taking ages to load on youtube. Full report tomorrow.
Even rounds fuckinhell, sort it out Al haha

[AlFrancis]

Even rounds fuckinhell, sort it out Al haha

OK sorry about the even rounds but I've called them now. What a fight! Thoroughly enjoyed this one I even felt myself urging Pat on in the closing rounds when he was taking the fight to Sanchez with success. Sanchez looked the stronger man throughout but couldn't solve Pat's style specially the left jab.
Hats off to both fighters here, Cowdell for his brave attempt and Sanchez for his poise and versatility. He solved the problem in the end but nobody took him closer in a championship fight.
My scorecard read 144-142 Sanchez and I had them level going into the last in which Cowdell was still taking the fight to the champ.
I gave Sanchez rounds 1,2,9,10,11,12 and 15
Cowdel rounds 3,4,5,7,13 and 14
rounds 6 and 8 even. I'll have another look at them.
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Watch it!

[teeto]

Thanks i'm going to watch this.

[AlFrancis]

Thanks i'm going to watch this.


I want to see your scorecard with no even rounds.:nono

[teeto]

I want to see your scorecard with no even rounds.:nono
Hahahaha, okay later on today defo. I've just round one and i know it's an old saying ut whenever i watch Sanchez i just end up saying what if?

[GPater11093]

Just watched it.

Absoloute classic fight.

Yes, Cowdell did an amazing job feinting so I wont go in to that, but for me it highlighted the importance of a strategy.

Cowdell's strategy was based around keeping Sanchez off balance with the feints and jabs, and land the counter right hand when he could. He did this to a tee, despite being the lesser fighter.

Sanchez did not have a strategy and couldnt work out Cowdell and counter his gameplan, there was points when Sanchez looked frustrated, lost and out of ideas. The only reason he won was because in the late rounds he gritted his teeth said 'Fuck it' and let his hands go.

Cowdell was gritty as fuck in the last 5 though. The first 10 were an absorbing chess match which was brilliant to watch Cowdell implement a strategy and Sanchez look to counter it. The last 5 was a borderline war. Sanchez let his hands go but Cowdell upped his workrate and let his hands go more, it was fantastic. And how he got up from that knockdown at the end I will never know.

Sanchez: 1,6,7,9,11,12,14,15
Cowdell:2,3,4,5,8,10,13 KD'd 15
Total: 143-141 Sanchez (8-7)

[AlFrancis]

Just watched it.

Absoloute classic fight.

Yes, Cowdell did an amazing job feinting so I wont go in to that, but for me it highlighted the importance of a strategy.

Cowdell's strategy was based around keeping Sanchez off balance with the feints and jabs, and land the counter right hand when he could. He did this to a tee, despite being the lesser fighter.

Sanchez did not have a strategy and couldnt work out Cowdell and counter his gameplan, there was points when Sanchez looked frustrated, lost and out of ideas. The only reason he won was because in the late rounds he gritted his teeth said 'Fuck it' and let his hands go.

Cowdell was gritty as fuck in the last 5 though. The first 10 were an absorbing chess match which was brilliant to watch Cowdell implement a strategy and Sanchez look to counter it. The last 5 was a borderline war. Sanchez let his hands go but Cowdell upped his workrate and let his hands go more, it was fantastic. And how he got up from that knockdown at the end I will never know.

Sanchez: 1,6,7,9,11,12,14,15
Cowdell:2,3,4,5,8,10,13 KD'd 15
Total: 143-141 Sanchez (8-7)

Yes, great wasn't it! I noticed our scorecards slightly differed but we came up with 2 points between them. Assuming you made the 15th a 10-8 we both would of scored it to Cowdell if he won the last round and he wasn't having a bad round until the knockdown. A great but sadly forgotten effort by Cowdell against a great on foreign soil.

[AlFrancis]

Just watched the Rose-Castillo fight with no distractions. Didn't bother scoring this as the 1st, 2nd and 8th round are missing. A cracking fight, Rose boxed beautifully off the back foot countering Castillo the constant aggressor through the early and middle rounds. Castillo came on strong in the 10th with the knockdown and carried it on through the 11th and 12th. I thought Rose got it back during the 13th and 14th and the 15th was a classic with both men centre ring throwing bombs in a do or die effort. I'd love to see those missing rounds. I know you've seen this Greg, what's your view?
Got to say that I liked the commentator. It was if he was doing a radio commentary and he didn't miss much without saying too much. Anyone know who it was?

[GPater11093]

Yes, great wasn't it! I noticed our scorecards slightly differed but we came up with 2 points between them. Assuming you made the 15th a 10-8 we both would of scored it to Cowdell if he won the last round and he wasn't having a bad round until the knockdown. A great but sadly forgotten effort by Cowdell against a great on foreign soil.

Yeh slightly different, just some rounds I preferred Cowdells consistency over Sanchez's eye catching but scant flurries. But could easily score the other way.

Just watched the Rose-Castillo fight with no distractions. Didn't bother scoring this as the 1st, 2nd and 8th round are missing. A cracking fight, Rose boxed beautifully off the back foot countering Castillo the constant aggressor through the early and middle rounds. Castillo came on strong in the 10th with the knockdown and carried it on through the 11th and 12th. I thought Rose got it back during the 13th and 14th and the 15th was a classic with both men centre ring throwing bombs in a do or die effort. I'd love to see those missing rounds. I know you've seen this Greg, what's your view?
Got to say that I liked the commentator. It was if he was doing a radio commentary and he didn't miss much without saying too much. Anyone know who it was?

Its been a while, if I remember right, Rose looked qaulity early and really got rounds in the bank. As you say Castillo was always coming forward but Rose was countering superbly, then as he invariably slows down as he does in all fights. Castillo did come on then, but you know when you get that feeling that Rose is still the better fighter although he might not be winning the rounds?

Rose does brilliantly to pull it back in the last 2-3 rounds to win the fight, and I thought Rose won close but clear, and the riots were just over zealous fans IMO

Just occured to me, imagine Rose over 12 rounds, imagine how hard he would be too beat?

My favrouite Rose fight aside from the Rudkin fight is against Takaru Sakurai. It is such an interesting fight with both men setting traps and counters for the other.

[AlFrancis]

Yeh slightly different, just some rounds I preferred Cowdells consistency over Sanchez's eye catching but scant flurries. But could easily score the other way.



Its been a while, if I remember right, Rose looked qaulity early and really got rounds in the bank. As you say Castillo was always coming forward but Rose was countering superbly, then as he invariably slows down as he does in all fights. Castillo did come on then, but you know when you get that feeling that Rose is still the better fighter although he might not be winning the rounds?

Rose does brilliantly to pull it back in the last 2-3 rounds to win the fight, and I thought Rose won close but clear, and the riots were just over zealous fans IMO

Just occured to me, imagine Rose over 12 rounds, imagine how hard he would be too beat?

My favrouite Rose fight aside from the Rudkin fight is against Takaru Sakurai. It is such an interesting fight with both men setting traps and counters for the other.

I'll watch the Sakauri fight tonight.

[GPater11093]

I'll watch the Sakauri fight tonight.

It is quality, I think you would like it.

Would have been interesting to see your Dad against Sakurai, your Dad was a class boxer but could also gut it out and pressure a guy. I think he would have to pressure Sakurai and force him into mistakes rather than play a waiting game liek Rose.

[anarci]

Pac 120-109 that was being nice to Clottey but really id say 120-108 PAC.
SOto 115-110 over Diaz. Diaz did good though and had a shot at getting the win until the last 2 rounds.

[jaffay]

Sonny Liston - Cleveland Williams I

What a fighter Liston was. And Cleveland Williams was some special puncher. Williams didn't broke Liston with his first round attacks. Liston showed very good ring generalship in that round. His nose was busted but he didn't lost his focus . In 2nd Liston's jab took control and Big Cat started to feel that heavy punches. In 3rd Liston clubbered Cleveland when he felt that he was hurt.

What's interesting, the commentator of the fight says two times that Williams has height and REACH advantage. According to boxrec Liston's reach was 213 cm and Williams 203 cm...

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[lora]

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[teeto]

Salvador Sanchez vs Pat Cowdell:

Sanchez, rounds 1,2,3,5,8,9,11,12,15 (with the knockdown)
Cowdell, rounds 4,6,7,10,13,14

That was a very very good fight. Cowdell very game, but not just that, he boxed with the champ and though he was not as good a fighter it would be disrepsectful to just say he showed heart, he boxed with Salvador Sanchez and kept his style going to the very last bell.

[MAG1965]

I watched Duran/Leonard 3 the whole ppv card with Hagler as commentator with Gil Clancy and Tim Ryan. Good card. interesting. A little too much Ray Leonard and his agenda, but Ray easily outpointed Duran.

[GPater11093]

Dwight Muhammed Qawi vs James Scott

Good fight but it shows Qawi at his best, swarming in on Scott and landing his big shots whilst making Scott miss.

Jimmy Bivins vs Charley Doc Williams

Interesting fight. Bivins looked to press the fight and bull Williams to the corners and ropes and he did it well. Williams looked to jab and move but wasnt having much sucess as he just threw light jabs. When Bivins started to pin him down more, Williams came back with very hard shots and really did good when he let the hard shots go. But he didnt do it enough and Bivins landed the harder blows throughout. In the later rounds Williams tired and Bivins took over completly.

I had it 8-2 Bivins

[sweet_scientist]

Some scorecards from fights I've watched over the last couple of weeks:

Johnny Bratton vs. Charley Fusari: 142-142 Draw
Fusari: 1,2,7,8,11,12,13 and 14.
Bratton: 3,4,5,6,9,10( 10-8 ) and 15.


Great fight!


Ray Robinson vs. Bobby Dykes: 96-95 Robinson
Dykes: 5,6 and 7.
Robinson: 1,2,3 and 9.
Rounds 4,8 and 10 ( 9-9 ) even.


Dykes was a game and very sneaky, rangy boxer.Ray had a bit too much ability for him though.


Kid Gavilan vs. Ralph Tiger Jones: 99-93 Gavilan
Jones: 1.
Gavilan:2,4,6,7,8,9 and 10.
Rounds 3 and 5 even.


Gavilan is class, class, class.



Kenny Lane vs. Paddy DeMarco: 98-94 Lane
Demarco: 5 and 6.
Lane: 1,2,3,4,7 and 8.
Round: 9 and 10 even.

Hold and grab fest.

Alfonso Lopez vs. Shoji Oguma: 147-139 Lopez
Oguma: 3,5 and 13.
Lopez: 1,2( 10-8 ), 4,7,8,9,10,11,12 and 14.
Rounds 6 and 15 even.


The Fonz was too slick for Oguma, who desperately wanted to get into a brawl, but couldn't find Lopez enough to make use of his Spartan heart.



Mike McCallum vs. Sumbu Kalambay II: 117-114 McCallum
Kalambay: 5,7 and 8.
McCallum: 2,3,4,6,11 and 12.
Rounds 1,9 and 10 even.


Old bastards showing the young how it's done.


Joey Archer vs. Victor Zalazar: 97-95 Archer
Zalazar: 3,8 and 9.
Archer: 1,2,4,7 and 10.
Rounds 5 and 6 even.


Perfect example of how to outbox a taller opponent.


Jose Stable vs. Charley Scott: 96-96 Draw
Scott: 1,8,9 and 10.
Stable: 2,3,5 and 6.
Rounds 4 and 7 even.


Scott was a tough, tough fighter. His record really undersells his ability. A great action fight.



Charley Scott vs. Ralph Dupas IV: 97-96 Scott
Dupas: 3,7 and 8.
Scott: 1,2,6 and 10.
Rounds 4,5 and 9 even.


Dupas was cagey, but Scott was just hungry for it, and edged it imo.


Roger Mayweather vs. Harold Brazier: 116-115 Mayweather
Brazier: 4,5,9 and 11.
Mayweather: 1,2,37 and 8.
Rounds 6,10 and 12 even.


Roger would dominate for most of the round whilst Brazier woudl do a Clottey, but Harold would always hurt Mayweather in the last 30 seconds of the rounds. This one's up for interpretation. Could have gone either way.



Greg Haugen vs. Vinny Pazienza I: 145-143 Haugen
Pazienza: 3,5,8,10 and 12.
Haugen: 1,4,6,9,13,14 and 15
Rounds 2,7 and 11 even.


Another one that could have gone either way. Haugen was so much the better boxer, but Paz's activity kept him in it. Haugen should have opened up more, as he did in the second fight, which he dominated.



Johnny Saxton vs. Del Flanagan: 97-96 Saxton
Flanagan: 1,7 and 9.
Saxton: 2,4,5 and 6.
Rounds 3,8 and 10 even.


Never thought I'd see the day Saxton didn't get an iffy decision go his way!


Nicolino Locche vs. Carlos Hernandez: 125-121 Locche (rounds 5 & 6 missing)
Hernandez: 2( 10-8 ),4, 11 and 15.
Locche: 3,7,8,9,10,12,13 and 14( 10-8 ).
Round 1 even.


So glad I got to see this! Both to see a prime Locche and to see a prime Carlos Hernandez too, who really was a very good fighter. Carlos made it a scrap and put some really good pressure on at times, but Locche put on a defensive masterclass in the second half and took the fight clearly. Had an early scare with a knockdown in the second though.

[El Bujia]

I thought Stable got clearly the better of Scott, though it was a hell of an action fight. The in-fighting from both men was class, Stable in particular I thought. He put on a masterclass in clean inside work.

[sweet_scientist]

I thought Stable got clearly the better of Scott, though it was a hell of an action fight. The in-fighting from both men was class, Stable in particular I thought. He put on a masterclass in clean inside work.

I'm happy with a Stable win. I do think he has a good argument for it. I watched it with a slight leaning towards Scott, so that may account for the closeness of my card, but I do think he pretty much gave as good as he got.

[lora]

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Put this up quickly as it's the only 3 rounds available.Seems to have turned out ok.

I always got the feelign with Kalule that a lot of his fights would have been over much quicker had he been been a mediocre puncher.The guy truly didn't have any more power than Locche, despite a decent record of TKO's at a glance.

[GPater11093]

Charley Scott vs. Ralph Dupas IV: 97-96 Scott
Dupas: 3,7 and 8.
Scott: 1,2,6 and 10.
Rounds 4,5 and 9 even.


Dupas was cagey, but Scott was just hungry for it, and edged it imo.

SS just reviewed this fight, just now.

Reall good fight, and very hard to score. I felt tempted to score it 100-100.

It is a nice tactical fight as Dupas looks to take away Scott's leverage and make it an inside fight. He is sucessfull in doing so but Scott battles back with good body work and hard left hooks. Dupas was controlling the distance and the type of fight but Scott was landing the harder and cleaner punches early IMO, as the bout wore on Dupas upped his workrate and improved his defence due to his clever side steps.

There is a really nice sequence at the start at round 2 that shows how skilled Scott was. He keeps Dupas at range with a jab and slips the Dupas jab and lands a double left hook to head and body. Real quality, and stuff of this calibre is showcased throughout.

Thanks for reminding me of this fight, it really is good.

My scorecard

Dupas: 3,5,6,8,9,10
Scott: 1,2,4,7
Total: 96-94 Dupas (6-4)

Again we disagree slightly, although this is a type of fight impossible to score. I thought the 7th round was the closest of the fight and I very nearly scored it even (and I hardly ever score even rounds) until Scott had a good sequence at the end of the round. I thought Dupas adapted late on and took the last few rounds, as to me he was controlling the bout and 'one step ahead' of Scott.

Just an ovverall look of the fight

Aggresion: Dupas was forcing the fight by coming forward, but Scott early was leading more and throwing more, but Dupas picked up his pace late. EVEN

Defence: DUPAS. He used good head movement and blocks, and after the 5th round was using clever little shifts in direction that was making Scott miss. Scott did not have much of a defence.

Ring Generalship: DUPAS clearly. He was making Scott fight his fight by being on the inside and taking away the leverage needed for his punches. He was also the one looking to try new things in the bout.

Clean, Effective Punching: SCOTT. He was landing the better punches especially early as he dug hard to the body. Dupas shots were more flurrying shots although he did occasionally set his feet and swing. Scott was landing the harder shots.

[lora]

Marcel vs Arguello

Didn't score this as i was a bit drunk and couldn't be bothered, but ended up with the same feeling i had when i last watched it a few years ago.Marcel got off to a superb start scoring with some beautiful long right-hands, but wore down very quickly once arguello started landing circa 5th.From there on it was mostly gruelling stuff with Arguello outworking him and winning a lot of the exchanges at close-mid range.Very close overall.

Great fight.Arguello would be just as good at this weight as 130 because of his physical advantages imo.

[GPater11093]

Marcel vs Arguello

Didn't score this as i was a bit drunk and couldn't be bothered, but ended up with the same feeling i had when i last watched it a few years ago.Marcel got off to a superb start scoring with some beautiful long right-hands, but wore down very quickly once arguello started landing circa 5th.From there on it was mostly gruelling stuff with Arguello outworking him and winning a lot of the exchanges at close-mid range.Very close overall.

Great fight.Arguello would be just as good at this weight as 130 because of his physical advantages imo.

How good was Arguello in taht fight?

Did you think he was at his best Featherweight form?

[WhataRock]

Marcel vs Arguello

Didn't score this as i was a bit drunk and couldn't be bothered, but ended up with the same feeling i had when i last watched it a few years ago.Marcel got off to a superb start scoring with some beautiful long right-hands, but wore down very quickly once arguello started landing circa 5th.From there on it was mostly gruelling stuff with Arguello outworking him and winning a lot of the exchanges at close-mid range.Very close overall.

Great fight.Arguello would be just as good at this weight as 130 because of his physical advantages imo.

I agree with a lot of that...Arguello was close to getting him out of there.

But I thought Marcel had an excellent second wind, opening up on Alexis in the last few rounds with a fluid two handed attack, Alexis looked a bit ragged himself down the stretch IMO.