Marco Antonio Barrera vs. Orlando Canizales - 122lbs

[Addie]

Canizales could have been a possible match-up for Marco Antonio Barrera during the mid-90s had Canizales overcame Junior Jones when those fought in 1996. I feel both combatants have a lot of similarities in the way they fight, but obviously Orlando wouldn't be operating at his best weight, and he'd be slightly past his prime. How is the fight won? Personally, I don't feel a Canizales victory is out of the realms of possibility. Marco was still a bit raw during this time, whereas Canizales had a great deal of experience, and technical ability in abundance.

Opinions of the classic?

[asero]

barrera by KO...

canizales doesn't have the style of junior jones

[Addie]

barrera by KO...

canizales doesn't have the style of junior jones

The man was never stopped in over 50 professional fights, I'm not convinced Marco had the firepower to do it either. What makes you think Orlando gets stopped in this fight?

[anarci]

People seem to think that Barrera was green or not at his best at 122. They are pretty wrong for the most part. Jones just had that style that bothered Barrera beside I thought Barrera edged him out in the 2nd fight. Barrera just chose to Box when he moved up he always had it in him,this is coming from someone who has been watching him when even most hardcore fans didnt know who he was,since he was Junior Bantam and fighting at the Forum back in the early 90s. I think he could have won a title even then. Even though hes been around awhile his first shot was overdue and he was already a pretty well rounded fighter. If he chose to Box he wouldnt have had a tough time with Mckinney.
As for Orlando ive also followed him since the beginning I remember when he lost to Heavily hyped olympian Paul Gonzalez,someone I knew from the Hollenback Gym in East Los Angeles. Orlando got better and avenged the loss. I agree with Addie that Orlando was past his best at 122. Although he was still a helluva fighter. Barrera would have to many guns for Orlando. I know that Orlando was more Boxer than Puncher and hed be wide to stick with that,to keep him in the fight. Im going with Barrera by a convincing decision here. Orlando would win some rounds and be competetive but,Barrera would come on strong and have Orlando boxing too patiently after the mid rounds. I remember Vasquez beating Orlando by a razor close decision. This wouldnt be as close 116-112 117-111 116-112 Barrera

[anarci]

The man was never stopped in over 50 professional fights, I'm not convinced Marco had the firepower to do it either. What makes you think Orlando gets stopped in this fight? i agree that Orlando makes it the distance he had an excellent chin as well as great boxing ability,he was savvy enough to avoid being stopped.I dont even think Orlando was even ever dropped. Barrera could bang though,especially at 122.

[Addie]

People seem to think that Barrera was green or not at his best at 122. They are pretty wrong for the most part. Jones just had that style that bothered Barrera beside I thought Barrera edged him out in the 2nd fight. Barrera just chose to Box when he moved up he always had it in him,this is coming from someone who has been watching him when even most hardcore fans didnt know who he was,since he was Junior Bantam and fighting at the Forum back in the early 90s. I think he could have won a title even then. Even though hes been around awhile his first shot was overdue and he was already a pretty well rounded fighter. If he chose to Box he wouldnt have had a tough time with Mckinney.

As I understand it, Marco Barrera had already won a title eliminator down at Super Flyweight but decided to move up rather than chase a title. You see, Marco was far too good a fighter to have been considered green as a Super Bantamweight. He was rarely troubled before he ran into Gold Medalist Kennedy Mckinney, fighting on the very first Boxing After Dark telecast. It was a hell of a fight, but Marco would have lost if he had chose to box in my opinion. His jab was a non existent weapon at this point in time, whereas Mckinney was actually controlling the early going with his. Marco had to step inside and land hard shots, and that changed the fight.


As for Orlando ive also followed him since the beginning I remember when he lost to Heavily hyped olympian Paul Gonzalez,someone I knew from the Hollenback Gym in East Los Angeles. Orlando got better and avenged the loss. I agree with Addie that Orlando was past his best at 122. Although he was still a helluva fighter. Barrera would have to many guns for Orlando. I know that Orlando was more Boxer than Puncher and hed be wide to stick with that,to keep him in the fight. Im going with Barrera by a convincing decision here. Orlando would win some rounds and be competetive but,Barrera would come on strong and have Orlando boxing too patiently after the mid rounds. I remember Vasquez beating Orlando by a razor close decision. This wouldnt be as close 116-112 117-111 116-112 Barrera


Thanks for the insight. I tend to favor Marco on points, his explosiveness and hand speed at that point in time was spellbinding, and Orlando, for all of his strengths, was not an elusive target. It'd be very competitive though, Canizales was not a spent force and did a lot of things better than Marco when we're considering offensive skills. He had the punch placement to land on Marco repeatedly, and he hit bloody hard down at Bantamweight, I don't think it's out of the realms of possibility that Marco gets hurt in this fight.

[asero]

canizales has never fought a dirty fighter

[Addie]

i agree that Orlando makes it the distance he had an excellent chin as well as great boxing ability,he was savvy enough to avoid being stopped.I dont even think Orlando was even ever dropped. Barrera could bang though,especially at 122.

Marco had more than enough firepower to get respect, but all of his knockouts at 122lbs were as a result of accumulation. Sure, he knocked out the likes of Espinoza and Zuniga, but neither of those fighters were really top 10 contenders let alone anywhere close to being the calibre of Canizales. It's interesting actually, I later said that Marco's right hand wouldn't really come on until post-Jones, but a lot of his one punch knockouts actually came from the right hand, those two included.

That said, I don't see Canizales getting stopped here. It would take a real lights out puncher like a Zarate or Gomez to do that.

[asero]

this is 122 not 118...strength matters in. Very few had success to continue to be in their peak when they move from 118 to 122.

[Addie]

canizales has never fought a dirty fighter

I don't know whether that's true or not, but Marco wasn't all that dirty of a fighter. There were a few instances he lost his composure, but he was no Agapito Sanchez or an Andrew Golota. If he wins it will be as a result of his skills and heavy hands.

[Addie]

this is 122 not 118...strength matters in. Very few had success moving from 118 to 122.

A 4 pound difference is not to drastic. Orlando came very close to winning a title at Super Bantamweight on two occasions, and it was against very good competition in Vasquez and Jones. I just don't think we can write Orlando off against a raw Marco Antonio Barrera, after all of his experience and his own technical ability.

[asero]

still he is a bully at 122..there is no way can a canizales(moving up in weight) survive a bully prime barrera

[Addie]

still he is a bully at 122..there is no way can a canizales(moving up in weight) survive a bully prime barrera

Now that's a factor I'm willing to accept. Marco could conceivably bully Orlando in the ring, but he'd have to eat counters if he did. Both were terrific body punches, and so very similar in how they threw fast compact punches in combination. I love them both. Marco's strength could prevail, certainly.

[asero]

A 4 pound difference is not to drastic. Orlando came very close to winning a title at Super Bantamweight on two occasions, and it was against very good competition in Vasquez and Jones. I just don't think we can write Orlando off against a raw Marco Antonio Barrera, after all of his experience and his own technical ability.


it is drastic.. look at what happened to darchinyan and arce? Consider also tapia

even harada is not as good as when he left 118.

and barrera is not a small 122 pounder.

[asero]

if it is not drastic to move in lighter weights. We may have seen a lot to three division champions already..

see, calderon, darchinyan, arce, and even montiel can not win three titles in three divisions

i tell only pacquiao that is a former below 126 pounder that manages to win multiple titles

[WhataRock]

Orlando is definitely the more skilled and talented fighter.

MAB wasnt completely polished yet at 122.

MAB's size and strength is just one factor...As much as Canizlaes has to deal with that, Barerra has deal with a very skilled and technically superior fighter.

I dont think Im brave enough to pick Orlando here...But to write a fighter like him off is madness.

[Addie]

if it is not drastic to move in lighter weights. We may have seen a lot to three division champions already..

see, calderon, darchinyan, arce, and even montiel can not win three titles in three divisions

i tell only pacquiao that is a former below 126 pounder that manages to win multiple titles

Mainly because when you go back in time, every division had a formidable opponent in it's class. Gomez had to face Sanchez in moving up, Zarate had to face Gomez, Olivares had Arguello, etc. Pacquiao wouldn't have been to successful in moving up either had those guys been around, not in my judgment anyhow.

Barrera, for all of his talent, was not the finished article, whereas Orlando was an experienced campaigner, a terrific talent. It'd be interesting.

[Addie]

Orlando is definitely the more skilled and talented fighter.

MAB wasnt completely polished yet at 122.

MAB's size and strength is just one factor...As much as Canizlaes has to deal with that, Barerra has deal with a very skilled and technically superior fighter.

I dont think Im brave enough to pick Orlando here...But to write a fighter like him off is madness.

I pretty much agree here, although I think Marco had techical ability of his own, especially later on in his career. I have to go with Marco, it was his weight division and he was fresh, and Orlando was past his prime and operating above his best weight. That said, Orlando was just to good to get blown away or outclassed.

[anarci]

Marco had more than enough firepower to get respect, but all of his knockouts at 122lbs were as a result of accumulation. Sure, he knocked out the likes of Espinoza and Zuniga, but neither of those fighters were really top 10 contenders let alone anywhere close to being the calibre of Canizales. It's interesting actually, I later said that Marco's right hand wouldn't really come on until post-Jones, but a lot of his one punch knockouts actually came from the right hand, those two included.

That said, I don't see Canizales getting stopped here. It would take a real lights out puncher like a Zarate or Gomez to do that.
I think Barrera was a very good puncher not on the level of a Zarate or Gomez but you forgot about his blowout wins over Toledo and Benavides both good fighters and former Champs.

I really dont see anyone knocking out Canizales including Gomez or Zarate.

[anarci]

Addie i rarely meet someone who makes me 2nd guess my comments,but looking back at the Mckinney fight (a fight ive seen many times) I think I stand Corrected,Mckinneys jab was working pretty good for him and it did benifit Barrera to turn that into a slugfest( Wow what a fight:patsch) Good post you wont hear me saying that to much. You know your shit:thumbsup

[Addie]

I think Barrera was a very good puncher not on the level of a Zarate or Gomez but you forgot about his blowout wins over Toledo and Benavides both good fighters and former Champs.

I really dont see anyone knocking out Canizales including Gomez or Zarate.

Both Toledo and Benavides, although they held bullshit titles, were nowhere in the class of an Orlando Canizales. Likewise, both of them were undone by body shots. A double left hook ending proceedings early for Benavides, whereas Toledo suffered two knockdowns as a result of body shots, before being blitzed on the ropes. A rightful stoppage on the part of the referee. Again, neither fighter on the same planet as Canizales.

[anarci]

still he is a bully at 122..there is no way can a canizales(moving up in weight) survive a bully prime barrera Wow I think this is one of the 1st times ive totally agreed with you Asero. I said he had to many guns but I think the Bully factor has alot to do with it. Barrera was a real strong JF and knew how to mix his tactics in with his great combos and power skill etc.

[Addie]

Addie i rarely meet someone who makes me 2nd guess my comments,but looking back at the Mckinney fight (a fight ive seen many times) I think I stand Corrected,Mckinneys jab was working pretty good for him and it did benifit Barrera to turn that into a slugfest( Wow what a fight:patsch) Good post you wont hear me saying that to much. You know your shit:thumbsup

Only with Barrera mate, he's my idol. :good Seen practically every fight of his...many times. We all have our favorites, you seem to know his time under the banner of the Great Western Forum fairly well yourself. Terrific little fighter, watching him getting taken out by Junior Jones is still painful too watch, 12 years on.

[anarci]

Orlando is definitely the more skilled and talented fighter.

MAB wasnt completely polished yet at 122.

MAB's size and strength is just one factor...As much as Canizlaes has to deal with that, Barerra has deal with a very skilled and technically superior fighter.

I dont think Im brave enough to pick Orlando here...But to write a fighter like him off is madness. I dont think Orlando had that much more over Barrera in the Skills department. It is just that Marco chose to slug it out more often,But Barrera threw beautiful combos and I think had faster hands. Like I stated before Ive watched Marco from early in his career and he always had those technichal boxing skills, he just figured it would add something to his arsenal to start showing them. WHen he was young he still had the mentality of the"Mexican Warrior" .. As he matured as a fighter he started counterpunching and boxing more.

[Addie]

I dont think Orlando had that much more over Barrera in the Skills department. It is just that Marco chose to slug it out more often,But Barrera threw beautiful combos and I think had faster hands. Like I stated before Ive watched Marco from early in his career and he always had those technichal boxing skills, he just figured it would add something to his arsenal to start showing them. WHen he was young he still had the mentality of the"Mexican Warrior" .. As he matured as a fighter he started counterpunching and boxing more.

Marco Barrera is one of the outstanding combination punchers of the last 20 years in my judgment. He mixed it to body and head seamlessly, and rarely wasted a shot, which was very similar to an Orlando Canizales. The only real clear edge I give Marco though would be his hand speed, his combination's were often a blur at 122, never mind 126, where he was still exceptionally fast.

[anarci]

Addie Barrera was also one of my favorites. If you click on my profile you will see that hes listed along with about 10 other fighters as one of my favorites. Best fight i have ever seen live was Barrera/MoralesI . I lost money on that fight I put 100$ on Barrera and he was a 2to1 underdog, I was robbed along with Marco. I lost my voice for like 4 days after that fight.

One thing I have to disagree with you on is Jesse Benavides man this kid was pretty damn good in his prime,he was past it when he fought Barrera and Kelly. He was robbed against Patterson and he was already passed it then. He blew out Seabrooks(who went 13 competetive rounds with Canizales) WHipped Jesus"Hawaain Punch"Salud in his prime(another forum fighter)and beat a good champion Greg Richardson. He was also an outstanding amatuer barely losing to Steve Mccory for a spot on the 84 team who won a gold medal, im sure Benavides would have too cause he was practically Mccorys equal. I think in his prime he would have been a very difficult opponent for Orlando.
Maybe I shouldnt mention that Toledo shut out Canizales,since he was already at the end. He beat a good champion Botile to win the IBF title so Toledo wasnt exactly some kind of lower run of the mill contenders.

[Addie]

Addie Barrera was also one of my favorites. If you click on my profile you will see that hes listed along with about 10 other fighters as one of my favorites.

One thing I have to disagree with you on is Jesse Benavides man this kid was pretty damn good in his prime,he was past it when he fought Barrera and Kelly. He was robbed against Patterson and he was already passed it then. He blew out Seabrooks(who went 13 competetive rounds with Canizales) WHipped Jesus"Hawaain Punch"Salud in his prime(another forum fighter)and beat a good champion Greg Richardson. He was also an outstanding amatuer barely losing to Steve Mccory for a spot on the 84 team who won a gold medal, im sure Benavides would have too cause he was practically Mccorys equal. I think in his prime he would have been a very difficult opponent for Orlando.
Maybe I shouldnt mention that Toledo shut out Canizales,since he was already at the end. He beat a good champion Botile to win the IBF title so Toledo wasnt exactly some kind of lower run of the mill contenders.

Point taken. Benavides may well have been an established fighter, but he was certainly at the end of his days when he met Marco, and had absolutely nothing to offer. Nothing. Likewise, Toledo would have been spanked from pillar to post by a half decent Canizales, never mind a peak version. Toledo was an average fighter who lost his title before anyone even knew he had it. Neither wins really mean a lot, they were just showcases for Marco's talent.

You were at the Barrera vs. Morales I? That's the greatest fight of all time in my eyes, you're one lucky bastard to have seen it. Can you try and explain in so many words what it was like to be there?

[anarci]

Yey it was pretty wild! There was waymore Tijuana fans(MORALES) than Barrera fans I was with about 7 buddies and we were pretty split. I was talking shit to them Morales fans,cuz they wouldnt STFU. WE wereup in the Cheap seats 50$. There were alot of fights in the crowds,no one messed with us :lol: But im telling you fans are not exaggerating about the madness that goes on when you have to Mexican heroes going at it. I went for a beer before the main event and Cops had a row of guys hand cuffed and a small area taped off with blood and broken glass in the scene.
Well you know what happened with the fighters and I was just screaming like a mad man throughout,and was only Pissed at the decision and my 100$ Loss or should i say 300$ loss.


My Uncle went to the 2nd fight and they got into a mean ass brawl with these crazy Mexicano fans my Uncles and his buddies kicked the crap out of them. If you got a tape of the 2nd fight even Lampley makes note of the crazy fight up their during around the time of the tragic Rivas/? and a fight were Rivas opponent died. They even commented about the fan fight in Ring magazine(Gatti on the cover) about how nobody thought Rivas's opponent was really hurt that they thought the only death that might occur was the poor guys that got their ass beat in the stands. Any ways those guys deserved it they started it told my uncle "Chinga tu Madre" (Fu*k your mother) and one of those guys even hit my uncles friends wife. She had a black eye along with her husband. My uncle and his comprades took over and beat the shit out those guys.
The cops wanted to arrest my uncle and his buddies but my AUnt threatened to sue the MGM and the Fans backed up my Familys claims. The MGM then Comped them to ringside seats:lol:
The following month when i read it in ring magazine I told him about it and him and all his buddies all ran out and got a copy. They are fans but have never bought a Ring magazine in their life.
Not to often a boxing fan gets mentioned in RIng magazine ha:rofl

[Flea Man]

Yey it was pretty wild! There was waymore Tijuana fans(MORALES) than Barrera fans I was with about 7 buddies and we were pretty split. I was talking shit to them Morales fans,cuz they wouldnt STFU. WE wereup in the Cheap seats 50$. There were alot of fights in the crowds,no one messed with us :lol: But im telling you fans are not exaggerating about the madness that goes on when you have to Mexican heroes going at it. I went for a beer before the main event and Cops had a row of guys hand cuffed and a small area taped off with blood and broken glass in the scene.
Well you know what happened with the fighters and I was just screaming like a mad man throughout,and was only Pissed at the decision and my 100$ Loss or should i say 300$ loss.


My Uncle went to the 2nd fight and they got into a mean ass brawl with these crazy Mexicano fans my Uncles and his buddies kicked the crap out of them. If you got a tape of the 2nd fight even Lampley makes note of the crazy fight up their during around the time of the tragic Rivas/? and a fight were Rivas opponent died. They even commented about the fan fight in Ring magazine(Gatti on the cover) about how nobody thought Rivas's opponent was really hurt that they thought the only death that might occur was the poor guys that got their ass beat in the stands. Any ways those guys deserved it they started it told my uncle "Chinga tu Madre" (Fu*k your mother) and one of those guys even hit my uncles friends wife. She had a black eye along with her husband. My uncle and his comprades took over and beat the shit out those guys.
The cops wanted to arrest my uncle and his buddies but my AUnt threatened to sue the MGM and the Fans backed up my Familys claims. The MGM then Comped them to ringside seats:lol:
The following month when i read it in ring magazine I told him about it and him and all his buddies all ran out and got a copy. They are fans but have never bought a Ring magazine in their life.
Not to often a boxing fan gets mentioned in RIng magazine ha:rofl

Yawn

[Addie]

Yawn

Thought it was a good read myself, Fleaman. :D Anyone who was live at Barrera vs. Morales I deserves special consideration.

[Flea Man]

Thought it was a good read myself, Fleaman. :D Anyone who was live at Barrera vs. Morales I deserves special consideration.

First of all, your new Zarate avatar is quality:good

Secondly, it's the constant reference to filling people in that makes me YAWN. Like 'look at me, look how hard I am'.

[Addie]

First of all, your new Zarate avatar is quality:good

Secondly, it's the constant reference to filling people in that makes me YAWN. Like 'look at me, look how hard I am'.
bump.

[Addie]

First of all, your new Zarate avatar is quality:good

Secondly, it's the constant reference to filling people in that makes me YAWN. Like 'look at me, look how hard I am'.

I only do the very best when it comes to avatars. :good Robbi may disagree.

Admittedly, I cringed at a few parts of his post, but I think maybe he was telling the truth. There was probably a lot of fights in the crowd that night at the Mandalay Bay, but all of them would have taken a back seat to what transpired in the ring, that's for sure...unlike at Froch vs Dirrell, where the best fight of the night took place at ringside. :lol:

[anarci]

I only do the very best when it comes to avatars. :good Robbi may disagree.

Admittedly, I cringed at a few parts of his post, but I think maybe he was telling the truth. There was probably a lot of fights in the crowd that night at the Mandalay Bay, but all of them would have taken a back seat to what transpired in the ring, that's for sure...unlike at Froch vs Dirrell, where the best fight of the night took place at ringside. :lol::patsch Come on dude maybe i was telling the truth:roll: I wasnt posting this for it to go out to the times so excuse the rough edges. Im not from Europe im about a 4 hour drive or a 45 minute flight from Vegas,so I dont see why anyone would doubt what im saying. I dont think you would need a blow by blow account of the fight since we have all checked it out already.
I wasnt trying to act hard just trying to give you a perspective point,from someone that was there. The fight which i saw was at that the Mandalay the 2nd fight was at the MGM

[Flea Man]

:patsch Come on dude maybe i was telling the truth:roll: I wasnt posting this for it to go out to the times so excuse the rough edges. Im not from Europe im about a 4 hour drive or a 45 minute flight from Vegas,so I dont see why anyone would doubt what im saying. I dont think you would need a blow by blow account of the fight since we have all checked it out already.
I wasnt trying to act hard just trying to give you a perspective point,from someone that was there. The fight which i saw was at that the Mandalay the 2nd fight was at the MGM

I don't doubt you weren't telling the truth Bud :good at least you enjoyed the fight, whatever went on in the crowd (well, would be impossible not to enjoy that one!)

I travelled five hours to watch a fight recently (alone, and six hours back), a 45 minute flight isn't bad at all.

[anarci]

Its a fight I will never forget,and ive seen some good live ones.
Actually I wasnt there for the brawl my uncle and his buddies got in which was the 2nd Morales/Barrera fight. I checked that one out at on TV at my buddys sister in laws wedding Party which we insisted they get. The second one ,wasnt all that and I think Morales should have got that one even though they gave it to Barrera.
What fight did you travel 5 hours to Fleaman?

[Addie]

:patsch Come on dude maybe i was telling the truth:roll: I wasnt posting this for it to go out to the times so excuse the rough edges. Im not from Europe im about a 4 hour drive or a 45 minute flight from Vegas,so I dont see why anyone would doubt what im saying. I dont think you would need a blow by blow account of the fight since we have all checked it out already.
I wasnt trying to act hard just trying to give you a perspective point,from someone that was there. The fight which i saw was at that the Mandalay the 2nd fight was at the MGM

I wasn't doubting what you were saying dude. :good Apart of me hates you because...If I had one wish, it would have been to have seen Barrera vs Morales I...live in the flesh. I can't imagine how insane that would have been.