Pre 1980s boxers that could beat Lennox Lewis?

[Lunny]

Are there many?

Who would you pick?

Is he just too big for the earlier heavies?

[lefthook31]

Not really Mercer wasnt particularly the biggest guy or puncher and he gave Lewis fits. Can you imagine a guy like Earnie Shavers in there with Lewis?

[janitor]

Lewis was a great fighter but he was beatable.

If a guy like Ramhan could get lucky against him then he would likley slip up against a conteder at some point in other era's.

Picking a pre 1980s fighter who you would make a favourite over him is obviously harder. Joe Louis would probably have taken him. Langford, Dempsey and Liston would all have an excelent chance of doing by design what Ramhan did by luck. Even sombody like Harry Wills might be able to do a Mercer on him.

[Bokaj]

Ali, Holmes (77-79), Liston and Louis is the ones I would give the best chance. Tough fights to pick all of them.

I think Dempsey, Marciano and Frazier would have a very hard time getting inside. That jab and uppercut would be murder for them.

[Duodenum]

Skill wise, few top heavyweights have any business losing to Max Baer. Given his combination of height, reach and power though, combined with the nature of LL's two defeats, he has to be granted a puncher's chance. The first shot Maxie decked Carnera with was not a wide looping telegraphed roundhouse swing, but a straight, short and sharp driving right, similar to the first punch Durelle dropped Moore with (which Archie described as the hardest single punch he took in his entire career).

Lewis was not too big for Dempsey to flatten, although I expect Lennox would try to keep his distance. (Bear in mind that Holyfield was an inflated and aging cruiserweight when Lewis failed twice to stop or even floor him.)

Again, somebody with the skills of Lennox would have no business losing to somebody like Shavers, but Earnie had an 80" inch reach and underrated handspeed. Lewis would need to maintain steady concentration and caution to avoid getting caught.

[he grant]

Bokaj ... pretty selections excellent but I like Joe Frazier as well ..

[Bokaj]

Bokaj ... pretty selections excellent but I like Joe Frazier as well ..

Pergaps you're right. Joe slips that jab without too many problems, but inside that huge uppercut will be waiting. Don't think Joe can take too many of those. Also, Lewis will lean as much as possible on him in the clinches, which could tire Frazier out due to the huge size difference.

So Joe has to get through a lot before he can start to break Lewis down. For someone who does his best work on the inside, it's always very hard to give up that much in size and strength to a very powerful fighter with a good uppercut.

[Bokaj]

Skill wise, few top heavyweights have any business losing to Max Baer. Given his combination of height, reach and power though, combined with the nature of LL's two defeats, he has to be granted a puncher's chance. The first shot Maxie decked Carnera with was not a wide looping telegraphed roundhouse swing, but a straight, short and sharp driving right, similar to the first punch Durelle dropped Moore with (which Archie described as the hardest single punch he took in his entire career).

Lewis was not too big for Dempsey to flatten, although I expect Lennox would try to keep his distance. (Bear in mind that Holyfield was an inflated and aging cruiserweight when Lewis failed twice to stop or even floor him.)

Again, somebody with the skills of Lennox would have no business losing to somebody like Shavers, but Earnie had an 80" inch reach and underrated handspeed. Lewis would need to maintain steady concentration and caution to avoid getting caught.

Baer and Shavers are certainly fighters that could get to Lewis if he is lacking in focus. Foreman even more so. I think Lewis advantage in size and skill would see him defeat Big George more times than not, though.

[Duodenum]

Baer and Shavers are certainly fighters that could get to Lewis if he is lacking in focus. Foreman even more so. I think Lewis advantage in size and skill would see him defeat Big George more times than not, though.I agree with this, largely because of Foreman's deficit in hand speed, tendency to telegraph, and difficulties maintaining pace and power over an extended period. Shavers was faster than George, but lacked his chin, while Baer's endurance and stamina surpassed that of most heavyweights his size.

Foreman and Shavers were fairly predictable, considerably more so than Maxie, who was perfectly capable of surprising and confusing an opponent with various unforseen tactics. He displayed a good hard jab late in his match against Schmeling, raked Louis across the ropes briefly with multiple hooks in the opening round, cold cocked King Levinski with three hooks in round two of an exhibition (after the Kingfish tried teeing off first and taunted him), and spent a great deal of time on his bicycle with Carnera in a situation where Primo probably expected to use his height and reach advantage in retreat. This is what makes Baer so fascinating in these fantasy matchups. We have no way of knowing what he'd do against a given adversary.

[TommyV]

Not really Mercer wasnt particularly the biggest guy or puncher and he gave Lewis fits. Can you imagine a guy like Earnie Shavers in there with Lewis?

With a prime Lewis, yes I can. I can imagine him face down on the canvas. The only way Shavers would beat Lewis is if he loses focus ala Rahman I.

[Vanboxingfan]

Holmes would have the best chance IMO.

[Seamus]

Could? Poorly framed question again. Any fighter is beatable, especially when you start analyzing their poorest performances. Could? Hell, Tommy Burns could beat Lewis. I would give prime Ali the best shot, followed by prime Holmes. In both fights, I would probably bet on Lewis.

[janitor]

Hell, Tommy Burns could beat Lewis.

You are delusional.

[Seamus]

You are delusional.

The proper headbutts mixed with kidney shots in close COULD make it happen. It is within the realm of possibility.

WOULD it happen? No. I would lay many, many dollars/euros/pounds on it.

[Xplosive]

Prime Ali, and prime Foreman beat him w/o a doubt.

Prime Liston possibly beats him.

But other than those 3... Lewis beats evryone else.

[anarci]

Id say Ali,Foreman and Holmes. Id give Liston a helluva a shot. There is also alot of the big punchers like Shavers,Louis,Fraizer that would have a great shot,but I think Lennox gets them out first.

[zadfrak]

In addition to Baer, another couple of darkhorses may have been Galento and Cleveland Williams. Galento had the whiskers and did wing big shots in there. I like the Marciano chances as well, but don't love them.
Ingo threw a weird sneaky right hand and that's the shot that got him out of there against Rahman and McCall. So, it is possible for the guy to land. Shavers was the opposite of a lot of punchers--he dipped down to fire off the big shots. Most guys rise up. Perhaps he could catch Lennox with that early.

I think a 76 or 77 Jimmy Young gives Lennox a lot of problems. I just don't know if he'd ever do enough to get judges to award him a victory. But in a 15 rounder, I think the Lewis gastank could be drained.

These are a few guys in addition to the others mentioned. The thing with a Lewis is that you wouldn't exactly pick a Rahman or McCall ko victory over very many other top names, but they sure got the results aginst Lennox.

[Furey]

There are very few who could take on and beat a prime and fully focused Lennox Lewis.

[Stevie G]

Not really Mercer wasnt particularly the biggest guy or puncher and he gave Lewis fits. Can you imagine a guy like Earnie Shavers in there with Lewis?
Trouble with Earnie was,that he was very much a chin or be chinned fighter. Not as durable as Ray Mercer. Shavers could have caught Lennox,true but a more likely scenario would be Lennox tagging Earnie.

[Stevie G]

Muhammad Ali circa 1964-1975 would beat Lennox. So would a prime Larry Holmes.. I'd give 50/50 shots on Joe Frazier and George Foreman.

[The Morlocks]

Are there many?

Who would you pick?

Is he just too big for the earlier heavies?
Who can ko the glass jawed Lewis who was 1-punched twice? here goes. Fitzsimmons, Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Schmeling, Bear, Louis,Langford, McVey, Jeannette, Walcott, Marciano, Charles, Liston, Ali, Cleveland Williams, Frazier, Quarry, Boavena, Lyle, Frazier again, Foreman young and old, Holmes, Ali, Norton, Snipes, Page on a good day, Tyson, McCall, Danny "Little Red" Lopez, Rock-a-bye Rubin Olivares and my cousin Jolene who has a fierce left to the body-right to the chin combo and absolutely rules her fifth grade schoolyard.:smoke:D:rofl:rofl

[Duodenum]

Who can ko the glass jawed Lewis who was 1-punched twice? here goes. Fitzsimmons, Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Schmeling, Bear, Louis,Langford, McVey, Jeannette, Walcott, Marciano, Charles, Liston, Ali, Cleveland Williams, Frazier, Quarry, Boavena, Lyle, Frazier again, Foreman young and old, Holmes, Ali, Norton, Snipes, Page on a good day, Tyson, McCall, Danny "Little Red" Lopez, Rock-a-bye Rubin Olivares and my cousin Jolene who has a fierce left to the body-right to the chin combo and absolutely rules her fifth grade schoolyard.:smoke:D:rofl:roflYou left out Maxie Rosenbloom, Joey Archer and Miguel Canto. (Not to mention Rachman.) Oh, and by Walcott, do you mean Jersey Joe, or Barbados Joe?

[The Morlocks]

You left out Maxie Rosenbloom, Joey Archer and Miguel Canto. (Not to mention Rachman.) Oh, and by Walcott, do you mean Jersey Joe, or Barbados Joe?
Either:dead

[bigG]

its way to easy to say ANYONE with a punch who can reach that chin......so, discounting the easy answer......

ali....too smart, too fast, too good
holmes....better jab, better chin
frazier....could, and would i feel, draw lewis into a scrap and outgut him, lewis has a chance over HIS fight length, 12 rounds...but frazier could weather a strom and stop him in the championship rounds over 15...
foreman..ok, he was slow and predictable, but he was always in shape..(i think the emotion drained him in zaire rather than any physical deficits..), hit hard and had a great chin...
louis...again, too smart...his stalking, oredatory style would, i feel, cut lewis down....

there are probably others..hell, you cant discount marciano or dempsey...i have huge respect for lewis and his achievments, but im no fan, if you see what i mean...there are two lewis..pre and post ko loss....the pre ko loss is, probably, an easier fight for many of these guys..post ko, he was more careful, more cautious..but he still carried that right low, still, perhaps, struggled with a pace like marciano, dempsey or frazier would set...

all great fighters have off days, but, and im a big bruno/mercer even briggs fan....could you see any of the fighters mentioned having huge tussles with the likes of frank or ray, or being drawn into a shoot out with a briggs.....

[ripcity]

Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali & George Foreman could beat him. I'm not saying that they would but they could If Foreman hit anyone clean he could beat them. Like Foreman Ali and Louis are not that small even by today's standers. Louis would win by using his near perfect form and Ali through his athleticness.

[MrMarvel]

It's a fairly long list. :D

[ChrisPontius]

Could? Poorly framed question again. Any fighter is beatable, especially when you start analyzing their poorest performances. Could? Hell, Tommy Burns could beat Lewis. I would give prime Ali the best shot, followed by prime Holmes. In both fights, I would probably bet on Lewis.

Could he? I'd be my life savings plus my left testicle that he'd knock that midget Burns the fuck out, the same devastating way he did Botha.


Not really Mercer wasnt particularly the biggest guy or puncher and he gave Lewis fits. Can you imagine a guy like Earnie Shavers in there with Lewis?

Yeah, i can. Lewis blasts Shavers easily just like he did Ruddock and Golota. Lewis is as proven against big, heavy punchers as anyone in history.

[Unforgiven]

Lewis is as proven against big, heavy punchers as anyone in history.

True. It's the faster, smaller, scientific and skillful boxers he's not proven against.

[Doppleganger]

There are very few who could take on and beat a prime and fully focused Lennox Lewis.
That's the point. A prime and focused Lewis. The likes of Earnie Shavers (no disrespect) is not going to be able to handle a focused Lewis who turns up and means business. There's no point in doing any comparison unless you assume the best version of Lewis turns up, otherwise you could say that dozens, perhaps any big heavyweight puncher in history, have a chance at beating him. Some of you think the Lewis that showed up in McCall and Rahman 1 would turn up to face the likes of Ali, Frazier, Foreman etc. I find that ludicrious myself.

There's really only a handful of fighters that beat a prime, motivated Lewis. Pre 1980 I would give Liston, Ali, Holmes and Foreman a shot and I'd only make the 1967 Ali a favourite.

It does say something however about Lewis that his only 2 defeats are constantly borne up as 'proof' that he's vulnerable to just about any big heavyweight puncher who ever lived. It does kinda smack of clutching at straws if you ask me.

[Longhhorn71]

Lewis wouldn't psych out Foreman like Ali did to him.

Plus, Foreman could always "bulk-up" if he wanted to for more size.

Whoever landed the first big right hand would probably win.

[Titan1]

Frazier, possibly Lyle, Page on his best day, Ali, Bonavena, maybe a prime Quarry.Also, Holmes, and Foreman.

[tommygun711]

Ali, Holmes (77-79), Liston and Louis is the ones I would give the best chance. Tough fights to pick all of them.

I think Dempsey, Marciano and Frazier would have a very hard time getting inside. That jab and uppercut would be murder for them.
Did you watch Ray Mercer vs Lewis.
Mercer was able to get inside, so i think those 3 greater men then mercer could.

[Bokaj]

Did you watch Ray Mercer vs Lewis.
Mercer was able to get inside, so i think those 3 greater men then mercer could.

I actually haven't watched that one. But I will.

[tommygun711]

I actually haven't watched that one. But I will.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
You can find the rest of them in the related videos.

[teeto]

I favour Ali over Lewis. I don't see Lennox outobxing him or outfighting him. Lennox had good speed in his prime and when he exerts himself in the way of his one two combos he's one of the best ever, but i reckon Ali has the heart, and the multi-directional mobility combined with speed of foot to outmaneuvre his man and pepper him with shots in the process that do the scoring.

Louis has a chance against Lewis, but the reverse is definitely true. Sometimes people look into dimensions too much, i don;t personally, but it's not too much of an issue with Lennox, who was one of the best heavyweights of all time regardless.

[Seamus]

Typical Classic Board response to a more recent fighter, take one of recent fighter's lesser performances, compare to old-timer's better performances, extrapolate endlessly through rose-prism glasses... get result.

The best possibilities to defeat a PRIME Lewis, a Lewis who shows up as he did in one of his BEST performances, would be a 1979 Larry Holmes and a 1967 Ali. I love Joe Louis, but no. Marciano, no. Foreman, underdog in this one. Dempsey, how far does a Jack Mormon fly when hit by a proper right cross?

[teeto]

Typical Classic Board response to a more recent fighter, take one of recent fighter's lesser performances, compare to old-timer's better performances, extrapolate endlessly through rose-prism glasses... get result.

The best possibilities to defeat a PRIME Lewis, a Lewis who shows up as he did in one of his BEST performances, would be a 1979 Larry Holmes and a 1967 Ali. I love Joe Louis, but no. Marciano, no. Foreman, underdog in this one. Dempsey, how far does a Jack Mormon fly when hit by a proper right cross?
Well this doesn't apply to my post.

[Muchmoore]

People need to chill with using the Mercer fight. Mercer was a huge puncher with a granite chin who fought a good fight. He gave Evander all he could handle as well. Putting so much stock in the Rahman/McCall fights is silly. Lewis took Hasim lightly and got caught while clowning, and hadn't yet matured against McCall. Dempsey was flattened by Jim Flynn.

Obviously these results need to be taken into account, but Lennox's performances against the likes of Holyfield, Tua, Tyson, Ruddock etc. also need to be looked at. Any fighter can be made to look bad if you just look at 2-3 of their worst fights. Dempsey was knocked out by Jim Flynn and knocked out of the ring by Firpo, for instance.

Anyway, I like Ali to outpoint him and I slightly favor Louis. Holmes is a toss up. Liston-Lewis is hard to pick for me because we've never seen either of them face anything even resembling each other. I'd give Liston a tiny edge as I think Lennox struggled a bit against quality jabbers.

[itrymariti]

Without thinking about it too much, Joe Louis and Smokes would probably be my favourites.

[tommygun711]

People need to chill with using the Mercer fight. Mercer was a huge puncher with a granite chin who fought a good fight. He gave Evander all he could handle as well. Putting so much stock in the Rahman/McCall fights is silly. Lewis took Hasim lightly and got caught while clowning, and hadn't yet matured against McCall. Dempsey was flattened by Jim Flynn.

Obviously these results need to be taken into account, but Lennox's performances against the likes of Holyfield, Tua, Tyson, Ruddock etc. also need to be looked at. Any fighter can be made to look bad if you just look at 2-3 of their worst fights. Dempsey was knocked out by Jim Flynn and knocked out of the ring by Firpo, for instance.

Anyway, I like Ali to outpoint him and I slightly favor Louis. Holmes is a toss up. Liston-Lewis is hard to pick for me because we've never seen either of them face anything even resembling each other. I'd give Liston a tiny edge as I think Lennox struggled a bit against quality jabbers.

People need to take in a fighter's credible losses, that's why I talked about the fight... Really that fight could've been given to Mercer, it was quite a fight.
And it says something about these smaller heavyweights. Mercer, a short, stubby, but powerful heavyweight was able to pin Lewis on the ropes and work on the inside... That's what Frazier and Marciano would do, only 10x better.
Yeah, I believe Liston may defeat Lewis, I'm not really sure, Liston possibly hits harder and has a better jab, but lewis has faster hands and he's bigger.

[janitor]

People need to chill with using the Mercer fight. Mercer was a huge puncher with a granite chin who fought a good fight. He gave Evander all he could handle as well. Putting so much stock in the Rahman/McCall fights is silly. Lewis took Hasim lightly and got caught while clowning, and hadn't yet matured against McCall. Dempsey was flattened by Jim Flynn.

Obviously these results need to be taken into account, but Lennox's performances against the likes of Holyfield, Tua, Tyson, Ruddock etc. also need to be looked at. Any fighter can be made to look bad if you just look at 2-3 of their worst fights. Dempsey was knocked out by Jim Flynn and knocked out of the ring by Firpo, for instance.


Yes, but he would have had similar lapses in other era's at some point.

There is always sombody waiting to collect your head when you make a mistake.

[Muchmoore]

Without thinking about it too much, Joe Louis and Smokes would probably be my favourites.

While size in Heavyweight boxing gets over rated sometimes imo, I think the size difference in a Frazier-Lewis fight would be crucial. Frazier was a come forward swarmer, he fought no other way. Lewis is going to tie him up when he comes in, and no matter how good of shape Frazier's in, having 250 pounds on your upperbody over a few rounds would take its toll.
Combined with this, you have Lennox's uppercut on the inside. Frazier with his bob and weaving style was great at dodging straight shots, not so great at dodging uppercuts. He'd have to get by the uppercut first, and if he got by the uppercut he'd find Lennox tying him up and putting all of his weight on him on the inside. I pick Frazier against any boxer (as in the style) that ever lived not named Ali, but Lennox would be a bad matchup.

[Muchmoore]

Yes, but he would have had similar lapses in other era's at some point.

There is always sombody waiting to collect your head when you make a mistake.

I don't see Lennox going unbeaten in any era. But the losses that he had helped him imo become a better fighter and Lennox never clowned around against someone he deemed a worthy challenge. Which is what Louis, Frazier, Foreman etc. were of course.

[Longhhorn71]

Foreman had a lot of respect for Lewis.

If Lewis gets beyond 4 rounds, he probably wins.

[anarci]

Ali
Foreman
Holmes if you consider him pre 80s his prime was probaby around 80,81,82
Liston Pick em
Fraizer Maybe but im 60/40 that Lewis would win
Shavers would have a good shot

[SuzieQ49]

Bokaj ... pretty selections excellent but I like Joe Frazier as well ..


Why? Frazier was at absolute death against punchers. His management even avoided taking on Mac Foster and Sonny Liston. Frazier was killer against great boxer types, but very vulnerable against punchers.

I like Marciano's style and Dempseys prove track record as doing better against punchers.

[blaghaus]

I could see Frazier taking a merciless beating against Lewis for reasons outlined above. Eating uppercuts. Lewis and Frazier are my two favourite heavyweights BTW.

I think Lewis is a favourite against anyone except Ali. Holmes and Foreman could be a pick em against Lewis.

[Kalasinn]

Favour over Lewis:
Ali
Holmes

Very good chance:
Liston
Foreman
Louis

Good chance:
Frazier
Shavers

[Muchmoore]

People need to take in a fighter's credible losses, that's why I talked about the fight... Really that fight could've been given to Mercer, it was quite a fight.
And it says something about these smaller heavyweights. Mercer, a short, stubby, but powerful heavyweight was able to pin Lewis on the ropes and work on the inside... That's what Frazier and Marciano would do, only 10x better.

Mercer was 6'1 and weighed 238 against Lennox. He wasn't really a short, stubby HW in the mold of Marciano, or Frazier who you mentioned.

[tommygun711]

Mercer was 6'1 and weighed 238 against Lennox. He wasn't really a short, stubby HW in the mold of Marciano, or Frazier who you mentioned.
yeah, but he fought the same way as marciano and frazier, and i feel that really he always weighed a lot. He wasn't that tall either, only two inches taller then frazier and marciano.

[he grant]

Everyone going to Mercer as an example are leaving out the fact that Mercer had one of the very best chins ever and was an exceptionally strong 230 fighter ... he absorbed huge shots against Lennox that I do not see a Dempsey or a Marciano surviving , no way ..

Ali and Holmes would outbox him with their jabs and speed.
Liston would finish what Frank Bruno started.
Joe Louis, who excelled against big fighters, would get inside and flatten him.

Others were much better pound for pound but I just don't like the match ups ...

[SuzieQ49]

Everyone going to Mercer as an example are leaving out the fact that Mercer had one of the very best chins ever and was an exceptionally strong 230 fighter ... he absorbed huge shots against Lennox that I do not see a Dempsey or a Marciano surviving , no way ..

Why do you always leave out Frazier? Frazier may have been "heftier" than Marciano and Dempsey, but he was not more durable or physically stronger.

[Bummy Davis]

I think the awkward puncher have a chance against Lewis to catch him off Rhytym danger was Lewis could punch pretty well but his power usually dwindled after 8 rounds. I give a puncher with a good chin and stamina a good shot vs Lewis and Lennox was never really in with a master boxer like Ali or Walcott, a cutie

Joe Louis would be a tough one for Lewis to get past but Marciano would have to hurt Lewis while Lennox was on the offensive and rock him and ripen him up for the later rds. Ali movement and speed flurries. Walcott could be the spoiler. Lewis was better than a lot of the others but could be stopped by Baer and Foreman if McCall and Rahman could do it. Still easier said than done but doable

[BoxingFanNo1]

Favour over Lewis:
Ali
Holmes

Very good chance:
Liston
Foreman
Louis

Good chance:
Frazier
Shavers

Agree with this.:good

[Bokaj]

Did you watch Ray Mercer vs Lewis.
Mercer was able to get inside, so i think those 3 greater men then mercer could.

Have watched it now. And what strikes me is that Mercer fought quite tall despite being shorter. He had most of his success with straight punches, especially the jab. He actually outjabbed Lewis. He didn't bob and weave like Frazier would and he didn't work the body.

Frazier's style would leave him more open to Lewis' upppercuts (which Mercer ate quite a few of as well) and he didn't have Mercer's ability to take them. But, of course, Frazier applied much faster pressure than Mercer, had better stamina, worked better on the inside and was harder to hit with straight punches. Lewis would have to rely heavily on his uppercut here and his ability to wear Frazier down in the clinches with his big size advantage. Very interesting fight.

[Hookie]

Are there many?

Who would you pick?

Is he just too big for the earlier heavies?

He would beat most of them... not just because of his size though. Lewis had the right combo of size, strength, power, speed, stamina, and mostly ability. Being big means nothing if you don't know how to use your natural advantages.

Some of the best pre-80's HWs IMO-

Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Charles, Walcott, Marciano, Patterson, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Young, Lyle, Shavers, Quarry, Holmes

The best of the best of this list IMO-

Louis, Marciano, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes

On most nights I think Lewis beats every pre-80's HW with the exception of Louis, Marciano, Ali, Frazier, Foreman , and Holmes. He beats Louis 4 out of 10 times. He beats Marciano and Frazier about 50%. Ali, Foreman, and Holmes beat him about 8/10.

As for the 80's? Only Holmes (already mentioned), Tyson, and Holyfield (went 23-0 (19) in the 80's... 5-0 (5) at HW) are worthy of a mention as a serious threat to Lewis. I think he's about 50% vs. Tyson. I think Holyfield outworks him for a decision win most of the time, about 7 out of 10 times.

[Hookie]

Oh, about Mercer? Mercer had one of the best chins ever. 6'1" with a 77' and 238Lbs. compared to Lewis' 247Lbs. the night they fought.

Mercer rose to the occasion vs. Lewis. He was on the best roll of his career even though it was a short one. He looked as good as he could have in his somewhat close loss to Holyfield, he followed up with the very close loss to Lewis, then he won a decision over Tim Witherspoon. He won 6 more after Witherspoon all by KO (all bums though) before getting beat by W. Klitschko (LKOby6).

[itrymariti]

Why? Frazier was at absolute death against punchers. His management even avoided taking on Mac Foster and Sonny Liston. Frazier was killer against great boxer types, but very vulnerable against punchers.

Because he lost to Foreman?

[Hookie]

Because he lost to Foreman?

I'm not sure why he assumes that either??? He only lost to Foreman and Ali.

[Manos de Piedra]

Prime Fraizer prime Ali, prime Holmes

[SuzieQ49]

gee

[Seamus]

Are we going to take Lewis on his best night or worst? Are we going to throw him in with say, Shavers, on HIS best night?

Prime for prime, at optimal performance, I take Lewis over all other heavyweights except 67 Ali and 79 Holmes. I give a decent but less than 50% chance to Joe Louis. I give 30% chance to Liston and Foreman. i give close to or equal to 0% chance to anyone else.

[SuzieQ49]

i give close to or equal to 0% chance to anyone else.


Considering the results...you have to give at least a 50% chance to Oliver Mccall and Hasim Rahman

[SuzieQ49]

I just watched 6'1 225lb 35 year old ray mercer jab Lennox Lewis to death and nearly beat him. I can only imagine how much better of a job Sonny Liston would do in there.

[Sakura]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Neverchair]

Why pre 80's?

Surely their aren't any fighters who could beat a prime Lewis post 80's?

[Sakura]

Why pre 80's?

Surely their aren't any fighters who could beat a prime Lewis post 80's?

:rofl:rofl

[tommygun711]

I just watched 6'1 225lb 35 year old ray mercer jab Lennox Lewis to death and nearly beat him. I can only imagine how much better of a job Sonny Liston would do in there.

you're exactly right. plus Sonny has a longer reach thn mercer and has faster hands, hits harder, and has more punches.

[Seamus]

Considering the results...you have to give at least a 50% chance to Oliver Mccall and Hasim Rahman

Perhaps you should spend less time posting inane comments and more time thoughtfully reading. I stated "at his optimal", not distracted with movie making or training like a slob, but at his very best. A focussed, well-trained Lewis destroys both McCall and Rahman... well, like he did in fact do.

[SuzieQ49]

Perhaps you should spend less time posting inane comments and more time thoughtfully reading. I stated "at his optimal", not distracted with movie making or training like a slob, but at his very best. A focussed, well-trained Lewis destroys both McCall and Rahman... well, like he did in fact do.

I see you offered a slew of excuses for Lennox not being at his "best", despite him being in his prime years. They are what they are, excuses. I can make excuses too. Oliver Mccall was in no way shape or form ready to fight Lewis in the rematch. He had severe mental problems that should have not even allowed him to obtain a boxing liscense. Lennox did not beat Mccall when he was at his best.

[SuzieQ49]

Perhaps you should spend less time posting inane comments and more time thoughtfully reading.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[tommygun711]

a lot of them would beat him, and some would certainly give him a fight. the ones that would best him:
Ali, Louis, Holmes, Liston, Foreman, And Frazier.
probably a few more too.

[Seamus]

I see you offered a slew of excuses for Lennox not being at his "best", despite him being in his prime years. They are what they are, excuses. I can make excuses too. Oliver Mccall was in no way shape or form ready to fight Lewis in the rematch. He had severe mental problems that should have not even allowed him to obtain a boxing liscense. Lennox did not beat Mccall when he was at his best.


I totally agree with you here but then we are talking of his legacy (wherein his inconsistency factors) and not really a head to head match-up at optimal preparedness (which I stipulated in my post). Head to head, he beats both guys 9 out of 10 times. Lewis, at his best, is perhaps the most difficult match-up for any and all heavyweights in history with the exception of prime Holmes or the "what could have been" 67-69 Ali.

I thoughtfully construct and edit each post with the care of a Joycian scholar. I expect you to read them with the same devotion.

Is there some shitty fight on tonight?

[Ponysmallhorse]

I just watched 6'1 225lb 35 year old ray mercer jab Lennox Lewis to death and nearly beat him. I can only imagine how much better of a job Sonny Liston would do in there.
He was just starting his work with Emanuel. It wasn't his best fight. And Ray Mercer is Ray Mercer.
And ring was designed for midgets which played well for mercer.