If Paquiao KOs Mayweather... [Archive]

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toffeejack

11-23-2009, 01:07 PM

And then retires. For the knowledgeable posters on here where would he rank on your ATG lists then?

Tin_Ribs

11-23-2009, 02:07 PM

Top 20-30. Maybe higher. Lists are a bit naff.

McGrain

11-23-2009, 02:10 PM

Top 20. I'd have to look very closely at the fighters from 15 up carefully, and in turn.

Addie

11-23-2009, 02:19 PM

Top 15 for me, lads. As things stand, he's top 30...a decisive victory over Floyd Mayweather Jr would be his greatest ever triumph.

McGrain

11-23-2009, 02:22 PM

Tin_Ribs

11-23-2009, 02:23 PM

Top 15 for me, lads. As things stand, he's top 30...a decisive victory over Floyd Mayweather Jr would be his greatest ever triumph.

At whose expense would he be entering your top 15?

Addie

11-23-2009, 02:38 PM

Around 15 places is a HUGE leap. Of course, it would be a huge win, but it's hard for me to believe that one win can be worth that much given the quality of men between where you have Pacquiao now and where you would have him if he stopped Mayweather...

Well I guess I hold Floyd in higher regard that most of you because I don't give Manny Pacquiao a chance in the fight. I think stylistically hes' in big trouble. Aside from that, if Manny did pull off the win, he'd be in the possession of easily one of the most impressive resumes of the last 40 years. His achievements through the divisions, and the manner in which he has been handling bigger fighters, is a special achievement that not many fighters in history can boast. Admittedly, I don't actually have a list but he'd leapfrog a Pernell Whitaker and be awfully close to a Sugar Ray Leonard. Perhaps a top 20 place on second thought.

Bummy Davis

11-23-2009, 02:41 PM

Its a Tall order for him but Pac has been surprising me. I did not expect his last 3 fights to go that well for him. I would love to see the active guy win, not the part timer

McGrain

11-23-2009, 02:42 PM

Yeah, i would love Pacquiao to get it done too.

Don't see it though.

stevebhoy87

11-23-2009, 02:45 PM

High, i think top 15 probably

IntentionalButt

11-23-2009, 02:45 PM

For the knowledgeable posters on here

You do realize this sort of qualifier is rhetorical, yes? :lol: This will attract everyone from sweet_scientist to frankenfrank and everything in between.

Addie

11-23-2009, 02:45 PM

Yeah, i would love Pacquiao to get it done too.

Don't see it though.

If you could throw any active fighter out there who has the style to present real problems for Manny, it would be Floyd Mayweather, even above a Shane Mosley. Mosley is there to be hit, always has been, whereas Floyd's defensive capabilities speak for itself. Many accomplished fighters in the past have failed to land even a significant blow on him. Pacquoao is dynamic, throws a variety of punches from an assortment of angles, but I'll think he'll find himself surprised at how much Floyd's counters are going to effect him.

McGrain

11-23-2009, 02:47 PM

It's the timing. Mayweather times a man coming forwards as well as it can be done. Pity he doesn't do more on offense, but the potshots should be enough to take the wind out of Manny's sails.

IntentionalButt

11-23-2009, 02:48 PM

If he and Mayweather both retire after a Pac KO win, top 20 full stop.

If Mayweather himself then goes on to beat any combination of Mosley/Williams/maybe Berto or Martinez, Margarito-Cotto II winner (any 2 of the above)...this could catapult Pac through the siege defense of the well-fortified 15 without him lifting a finger.

Addie

11-23-2009, 02:50 PM

It's the timing. Mayweather times a man coming forwards as well as it can be done. Pity he doesn't do more on offense, but the potshots should be enough to take the wind out of Manny's sails.

...And possibly stop him dead. Manny cannot expect to find success in standing in front of Mayweather as he did against Miguel Cotto.

IntentionalButt

11-23-2009, 02:55 PM

...And possibly stop him dead. Manny cannot expect to find success in standing in front of Mayweather as he did against Miguel Cotto.

Pac has shown an almost predatory inclination to toy with opponents by beating them at their own game. It's not enough to tattoo their faces, he needs to put his mark on their confidence in the form of a territorial piss-stain.

His ill-advised standing and trading with Cotto was, IMO, a strategic boon that helped advance Miguel's mental deterioration. Pac was probably hoping that the "fight or flight" response in his prey would lead to a slugfest that he, with he and Roach's confidence in his absolutely unreal chin, would be sure to win. Instead Cotto opted for the comfortable embrace of "flight", and this delay in plans clearly annoyed Pacquiao. So he hit him even harder whenever he got the chance. :scaredas:

Addie

11-23-2009, 03:17 PM

absolutely unreal chin

Overstatement in my judgment. He didn't take the solid shots that Margarito absorbed in '07, and he's been hurt before and stopped before. So-called granite chins have been smashed in the past by shots they just didn't see, like Kalambay against Nunn for instance. I'm not necessarily picking Floyd by knockout, but I see him landing enough solid, hard counters to not only get Manny's respect, but perhaps hurt him, perhaps knock him down.

IntentionalButt

11-23-2009, 03:30 PM

Overstatement in my judgment. He didn't take the solid shots that Margarito absorbed in '07, and he's been hurt before and stopped before. So-called granite chins have been smashed in the past by shots they just didn't see, like Kalambay against Nunn for instance. I'm not necessarily picking Floyd by knockout, but I see him landing enough solid, hard counters to not only get Manny's respect, but perhaps hurt him, perhaps knock him down.

My understanding is Pac's early career stoppages were the result of damage to the body (which was still young and spindly at the time).

When we've seen him hurt by headshots (would you be referring to the two JMM fights?) it's been a brief moment of stun from which he recovers with disturbing quickness. There's also the somewhat controversial consideration of weight gain improving one's resistance. I'll take this as a segue opportunity to plug this thread and invite you to weigh in on the subject: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Addie

11-23-2009, 03:33 PM

Tin_Ribs

11-23-2009, 03:47 PM

Absolutely, I don't even know why I bothered to mention the stoppages. Totally irrelevant now that Manny has filled out and matured.

He looked on queer street to me at the very end of the 2nd round of the 2nd Marquez fight when JMM got him with that overhand right/left uppercut just as the bell rang.

Still, his punch resistance looked ok against Cotto.

TommyV

11-23-2009, 03:52 PM

My understanding is Pac's early career stoppages were the result of damage to the body (which was still young and spindly at the time).

When we've seen him hurt by headshots (would you be referring to the two JMM fights?) it's been a brief moment of stun from which he recovers with disturbing quickness. There's also the somewhat controversial consideration of weight gain improving one's resistance. I'll take this as a segue opportunity to plug this thread and invite you to weigh in on the subject: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

There was a thread a while back documenting the Rustico Torrecampo knockout loss and a slow-motion appears to show the shot actually landing on his chin. He was also knocked down heavily against Nedal Hussein via a jab and given a long-count, although these were at 112 & 122 respectively and therefore now completely irrelevant.

He did seem a little stunned by a couple of Cotto's counters on occasion, but I don't blame him given he was piling on the pressure and was caught by left-hooks from a power-punching naturally left handed fully-fledged 147lber. And he was stunned for literally about a second it seemed and then carried on piling the pressure on.

Bill Butcher

11-23-2009, 04:58 PM

I regard Mayweather`s ability as among the best ever, if Pacquiao could beat him, Id place him in the top 10... you have to think where he started, the fighters he`s beat & his ability to move up the weights.

He wouldnt even have to KO Mayweather to crack my top 10, a points win without contraversy would be enough for me.

I wouldnt mind anyone having him outside the their top 10 but if anyone argued it, they would need a slap.... what does a boxer of today have to do these days if Pac couldnt crack it after a Mayweather win ?... seriously.

Gesta

11-23-2009, 05:04 PM

At least top ten.

red cobra

11-23-2009, 05:08 PM

Yeah, i would love Pacquiao to get it done too.

Don't see it though.
We can all hope, can we not?

TheGreatA

11-23-2009, 05:14 PM

Pacquiao has displayed a solid chin in the past couple of years although I can't help but to think back in the times when he was nearly knocked out by a jab:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Rock0052

11-23-2009, 05:23 PM

I'll leave it with this brief statement: Pac knocking out Mayweather might just be the most significant win of the past 25 years for me.

Nemesis

11-23-2009, 06:07 PM

top10

Nemesis

11-23-2009, 06:10 PM

Nemesis

11-23-2009, 06:11 PM

Minotauro

11-23-2009, 06:36 PM

Top 25 maybe as high as something like 18.

WhataRock

11-23-2009, 06:39 PM

Very high...would have to sit on it for a while before I decided.

I dont expect Manny to win let alone win convincingly...so a dominant win against someone like Mayweather would be huge.

lefthook31

11-23-2009, 06:39 PM

If he dominates and KO's Pac, he has to be "on" the ATG list. Floyd is in another league talentwise than anyone Pac's fought. If he climbs this hurdle, he is the complete fighter thats shown he can beat all styles.

duranimal

11-23-2009, 07:36 PM

If you could throw any active fighter out there who has the style to present real problems for Manny, it would be Floyd Mayweather, even above a Shane Mosley. Mosley is there to be hit, always has been, whereas Floyd's defensive capabilities speak for itself. Many accomplished fighters in the past have failed to land even a significant blow on him. Pacquoao is dynamic, throws a variety of punches from an assortment of angles, but I'll think he'll find himself surprised at how much Floyd's counters are going to effect him.

Yeh, & in the same breath we'll soon find out about Floyd once he's been whacked early a few times as well, that Cotto fight has now convinced Roach that Manny can take a shot from a hard hitting world class WW & Floyd ai'nt that heavy of hand. That Freedy Roach is one smart analyst, they've got plan a/b/c/ & some, i'am still stunned at what he did to Cotto & thats another pile of $$$$ down the pan. Yeh the fight was even & bang!!! Cotto's dropped, incredible.

They'll make Floyd fight every second, they'll try & take him out early, but you've just got to take yer hat off too this little feller, he is one amazing fighter & now that Roach has said 50/50 at 147 then we've got a blockbuster on our hands & Floyds going to have his hands full thats as long as Kenny Bayless refs it of coarse.

Obviously 100% common fistic sense points to a Floyd shutout but the way that Team Pacquiao go about their biz it's obvious they are more than confident about getting the KO/TKO or they would'nt take the fight as i don't see Roach putting Manny in harms way by taking on a fight that he did'nt think Manny could win:bbb

lefthook31

11-23-2009, 07:50 PM

Yeh, & in the same breath we'll soon find out about Floyd once he's been whacked early a few times as well, that Cotto fight has now convinced Roach that Manny can take a shot from a hard hitting world class WW & Floyd ai'nt that heavy of hand. That Freedy Roach is one smart analyst, they've got plan a/b/c/ & some, i'am still stunned at what he did to Cotto & thats another pile of $$$$ down the pan. Yeh the fight was even & bang!!! Cotto's dropped, incredible.

They'll make Floyd fight every second, they'll try & take him out early, but you've just got to take yer hat off too this little feller, he is one amazing fighter & now that Roach has said 50/50 at 147 then we've got a blockbuster on our hands & Floyds going to have his hands full thats as long as Kenny Bayless refs it of coarse.

Obviously 100% common fistic sense points to a Floyd shutout but the way that Team Pacquiao go about their biz it's obvious they are more than confident about getting the KO/TKO or they would'nt take the fight as i don't see Roach putting Manny in harms way by taking on a fight that he did'nt think Manny could win:bbb
Even if it represents a 4 million dollar payday for Roach?

duranimal

11-23-2009, 08:08 PM

Even if it represents a 4 million dollar payday for Roach?

But he looks to have such a trusting & genuine soul:p com'on we know $$$$ talk for sure, i'am just trying to look for the good in the feller, so i'll go fuck off & get me head tested before you tell me too:lol:

lefthook31

11-23-2009, 08:10 PM

But he looks to have such a trusting & genuine soul:p com'on we know $$$$ talk for sure, i'am just trying to look for the good in the feller, so i'll go fuck off & get me head tested before you tell me too:lol:
Nah I think Roach wants the glory too and I think deep down he believes they can win, but 4 mil is a nice little cherry on top either way.

duranimal

11-23-2009, 08:20 PM

Nah I think Roach wants the glory too and I think deep down he believes they can win, but 4 mil is a nice little cherry on top either way.

Roach's life will compleate if he can crow into Mayweather Sr's mug in the post/presser, the verballs will be brutal between these 2 in the build up to this one for sure & i bet 24/7 donate a chunk too it.

lefthook31

11-23-2009, 08:27 PM

Roach's life will compleate if he can crow into Mayweather Sr's mug in the post/presser, the verballs will be brutal between these 2 in the build up to this one for sure & i bet 24/7 donate a chunk too it.
Yeah I fear that is going to be the most exciting part of this whole fight. With Parkinsons, this is probably Roaches last hurrah. This is a tall order, and Roach will be up against real "boxing minds" in this fight. Regardless of how much Roger sounds like Fred Sanford, he knows his shit, and Floyd does too. Its going to be a great tactical fight. Its going to be one of those fights thats exciting to watch how it plays out but probably too boring to rewatch.

Gesta

11-23-2009, 10:18 PM

If Pacman KO's Floyd I would say he would be top ten easy.