The best combination punchers of all time?

[Addie]

Let's compile a definitive list of the most effective combination punchers throughout history. Who was scarily accurate with their punch placement? Who had blindingly fast hands which allowed them to throw 4-5 punch combination's effortlessly? Who's combination's were less flashy, but more often than not resulted in a knockout? Consider punch placement, variety, power, and hand speed.

Wilfredo Gomez
Sugar Ray Robinson
Julio Cesar Chavez
Orlando Canizales
Ricardo Lopez
Juan Manuel Marquez
Alexis Arguello
Marco Antonio Barrera

Who's combination punching really impresses you? Produce some video footage, and outline at what point you're particularly impressed with. I'll start us off.

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4.00 - Seabrooks is stopped in their second outting

[Xplosive]

Robinson, Tyson, Norris.

[KTFO]

M.Ali, RJJ, Pernell Whitaker

[john garfield]

SRR, 'n everyone else a distant second.

[Manassa]

SRR, 'n everyone else a distant second.

Second place to... Ike Williams?

[john garfield]

Second place to... Ike Williams?

Agree, M

[Manassa]

Agree, M

:D

The man in my avatar could throw together some surprisingly sharp and unexpected combinations when he felt like it. JG - did you ever meet Jimmy Carter, or see him fight?

[Addie]

SRR, 'n everyone else a distant second.

Not to sure about that. I listed him because he's certainly up there, but nothing I've seen on film would make him an overwhelming favorite...in fact, I consider Julio Cesar Chavez the greatest combination puncher to body and head of all time. Care to elaborate as to why you make a distant first?

[john garfield]

:D

The man in my avatar could throw together some surprisingly sharp and unexpected combinations when he felt like it. JG - did you ever meet Jimmy Carter, or see him fight?

Without handcuffs, JC was a helluva fighter -- very solid -- a coiled spring with a deadly left hook. Saw him near-decapitate Tommy Collins (who had more balls than brains) 9 times in a few rounds in Boston, and because he was a home-town kid, the ref was slow to call a halt, and almost got him killed.

[john garfield]

Not to sure about that. I listed him because he's certainly up there, but nothing I've seen on film would make him an overwhelming favorite...in fact, I consider Julio Cesar Chavez the greatest combination puncher to body and head of all time. Care to elaborate as to why you make a distant first?

It's a well intentioned question, A. Don't mean to be snide, but like J.C. Morgan said when some one asked how much his yacht cost: 'If you have to ask, you can't afford it'

Seen' em all (most live 'n in the gym) since the early '40s, never seen the like of Sugar's lethal, electrifying fusillades (not shoe shines).

[PunchOut]

JC ... best combination puncher to the head and body

then ...

SRR the great ...
Ike

JMM and Barreta ...

[Addie]

It's a well intentioned question, A. Don't mean to be snide, but like J.C. Morgan said when some one asked how much his yacht cost: 'If you have to ask, you can't afford it'

Seen' em all (most live 'n in the gym) since the early '40s, never seen the like of Sugar's lethal, electrifying fusillades (not shoe shines).

I believe there to be a genuine dispute regarding who's the greatest combination puncher of all time, it isn't a one horse race. Nobody I listed was a shoe shiner, otherwise I'd have listed Oscar De La Hoya and Manny Pacquiao.

[john garfield]

I believe there to be a genuine dispute regarding who's the greatest combination puncher of all time, it isn't a one horse race. Nobody I listed was a shoe shiner, otherwise I'd have listed Oscar De La Hoya and Manny Pacquiao.

Addie, I can tell you first hand, in the gym and at ringside, Pac's combos are NOT cream puffs. They look like arm punches but affect like Tasers.

[Addie]

Addie, I can tell you first hand, in the gym and at ringside, Pac's combos are NOT cream puffs. They look like arm punches but affect like Tasers.

He doesn't really throw combination's as much as he flurries to be honest, two entirely different things. I wouldn't rank him very high in terms of combination punching...power and speed is a different kettle of fish, though.

[McGrain]

I guess my top 2 would be Robinson and Louis.

[Addie]

I guess my top 2 would be Robinson and Louis.

Any reason why those two get preference over other fighters throughout history?

[john garfield]

He doesn't really throw combination's as much as he flurries to be honest, two entirely different things. I wouldn't rank him very high in terms of combination punching...power and speed is a different kettle of fish, though.

Very acute observation, A Stand corrected. Agree with you.

[Manassa]

He doesn't really throw combination's as much as he flurries to be honest, two entirely different things. I wouldn't rank him very high in terms of combination punching...power and speed is a different kettle of fish, though.

So how would you explain three, four uppercuts, lifting up the head of an opponent, and then a left hook knocking them out?

Or maybe two measuring left hooks and a final pulverising right?

There's always six hooks, three off each hand, to the body in quick succession.

These are typical combinations you'll see Robinson using on any highlight. He was, if not the best, one of them.

The most composed puncher I've ever seen, at his best, was Wilfredo Gomez - but then his opposition in those days didn't hit back hard enough to worry him, so he could afford to show off.

Willie Pep was very good at grouping shots together. Sometimes he'd pot shot from strange angles, but other times he'd flurry - with intent - and do damage.

Ike Williams scored the single most ferocious knockdown I've ever seen on film, and that was against Jose Gatica. Right uppercut, two left hooks and a right hand that would have knocked out near enough any lightweight.

Williams, Robinson and Louis are my classic choices. Although I'm sure I'd also pick Henry Armstrong had I access to his featherweight footage when he was knocking out everyone.

[McGrain]

Any reason why those two get preference over other fighters throughout history?

Both had literally everything, from traping skills to handspeed, both proved it over a prolonged period against a high level of opposition.

[Addie]

So how would you explain three, four uppercuts, lifting up the head of an opponent, and then a left hook knocking them out?

Or maybe two measuring left hooks and a final pulverising right?

There's always six hooks, three off each hand, to the body in quick succession.

These are typical combinations you'll see Robinson using on any highlight. He was, if not the best, one of them.

The most composed puncher I've ever seen, at his best, was Wilfredo Gomez - but then his opposition in those days didn't hit back hard enough to worry him, so he could afford to show off.

Willie Pep was very good at grouping shots together. Sometimes he'd pot shot from strange angles, but other times he'd flurry - with intent - and do damage.

Ike Williams scored the single most ferocious knockdown I've ever seen on film, and that was against Jose Gatica. Right uppercut, two left hooks and a right hand that would have knocked out near enough any lightweight.

Williams, Robinson and Louis are my classic choices. Although I'm sure I'd also pick Henry Armstrong had I access to his featherweight footage when he was knocking out everyone.

Like I said, Robinson deserves to mentioned among the very best combination punchers of all time...but there are other arguments. All of your choices are classic choices. :lol:

[Addie]

Both had literally everything, from traping skills to handspeed, both proved it over a prolonged period against a high level of opposition.

Louis really impresses me when he puts punches together, certainly...as does Robinson. How about more modern examples? The whole thread has been dominated by you old timers, who in the last 40 years can measure up to the likes of Robinson and Louis...in your judgment.

[McGrain]

Louis really impresses me when he puts punches together, certainly...as does Robinson. How about more modern examples? The whole thread has been dominated by you old timers, who in the last 40 years can measure up to the likes of Robinson and Louis...in your judgment.


Tyson. Used planes of movement you don't normally see from a fighter. Very impressive combination puncher, partly for that reason, and partly for the speed and power of course.

[john garfield]

Louis really impresses me when he puts punches together, certainly...as does Robinson. How about more modern examples? The whole thread has been dominated by you old timers, who in the last 40 years can measure up to the likes of Robinson and Louis...in your judgment.

Carlos Ortiz from the '60s (check-out his youtube against Len Matthews) and Meldrick Taylor.

[bodhi]

I guess my top 2 would be Robinson and Louis.

I was wondering how long it takes until somebody mentions Louis. Louis for hws. Ike Williams and Robinson for the lighter weightclasses.

[Unforgiven]

Holyfield deserves a mention.
In his prime he'd throw combinations on top of combinations, all sharp and accurate punches.

[Unforgiven]

And Marvin Hagler too.

[Popkins]

Not to sure about that. I listed him because he's certainly up there, but nothing I've seen on film would make him an overwhelming favorite...in fact, I consider Julio Cesar Chavez the greatest combination puncher to body and head of all time. Care to elaborate as to why you make a distant first?

Duran was a better head-body combo puncher than Chavez. This is particularly evident in his lightweight 70s days more than in his 80s higher weight period.

[Popkins]

Pernell Whitaker was a great combination puncher. His combos were thrown with Meldrick Taylor like speed, but were more accurate and varied. They may not have had the power of a Tyson combination, but were very effective.

[teeto]

Duran and Louis must be up there

[teeto]

Ruben Olivares for combos of hooks, uppercuts, overhands, all with perfect technique for generating power at the optimal moment. I've got some footage and it's just brilliant

[teeto]

Robinson's without saying

[JohnThomas1]

Louis and SRR. Why do these two old timers get mentioned a lot? Because they deserve it

:good

[teeto]

The Robinson flurried and didn't combo punch thing is a myth. Oscar De La Hoya flurried, Jose Napoles combo'd. Robinson did both, and more combo than flurry to be honest. The flurries usually came to stop guys from clinching. Mosley flurries to try and open up guys' guards. He combo'd more when he was unbeaten.

Kid Gavilan's an interesting one, i'd like to see where people rate him here. It's like a flurry/combo cross. But with him it was the accuracy that set him apart, pinpoint at his best.

I would say there is even an art to flurrying, but you have to go to the likes of Ken Buchanan to see it done beautifully. He did it whilst moving.

[PowerPuncher]

So many but I'd go with Jones, RObinson, Tyson as my top 3. I suppose it depends if your looking for power/accuracy/speed

[Flea Man]

Haven't read ANY of this thread.

Joe Louis.

[johnmaff36]

Havent seen better than Ray Robinson for variety,power,speed and accuracy. An honourable mention for Floyd Patterson as all my other good ones have been mentioned already

[natonic]

Robinson (delivered combinations with equal, devastating power in all punches and without pause). Joe Louis. Alexis Arguello (a hook off the jab then a right hand was a thing of beauty).

[stevebhoy87]

I think it is robinson without a doubt with louis probably 2nd.

However i will give julio cesar chavez a hell of a lot of credit here. Brilliant combination puncher, power, accuracy, decent speed and variation. He's up there with the best

[sugarsean]

1.Sugar Ray Leonard
2.Sugar Ray Robinson
3.Joe Louis
4.Muhammad Ali
5.Mike Tyson
6.Ike Williams
7.Evander Holyfield
8.Pernell Whitaker
9.Roberto Duran
10.Salvador Sanchez

[johnmaff36]

Frank Bruno. Ive seen his chin hit opponents gloves 10,15,20 times in a matter of seconds

[Addie]

Duran was a better head-body combo puncher than Chavez. This is particularly evident in his lightweight 70s days more than in his 80s higher weight period.

From what I've seen of both, Chavez was more fluid.

[red cobra]

SRR, 'n everyone else a distant second.
SRR could generate more spectacular, and POWERFUL combinations, not those shoeshine type combos, than anyone. He was second to none, and in a very lethal way.

[Tin_Ribs]

Robinson, Williams, Arguello and Louis are the stand outs for reasons already stated.

There isn't footage except the Oakland Billy Smith stuff, but by all accounts, Charley Burley was an absolute nail gun at his best according to Archie Moore, who was no slouch himself in the putting-punches-together department. Especially when he had a man hurt.

And I like Old Bones Joe Brown in this regard too; he put shots from the outside together really well.

[BENNY BLANCO]

The One, The Only!!!!!!!

Terrible Terry Norris!!!!!!

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[Robbi]

De La Hoya for me.

[Addie]

The One, The Only!!!!!!!

Terrible Terry Norris!!!!!!

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Norris has become like a spoof on ESB. If in doubt, Terry Norris.

[BENNY BLANCO]

Norris has become like a spoof on ESB. If in doubt, Terry Norris. What's so wrong with me naming Norris as one of the greatest combination punchers of all time?

The very first response to this thread was from Xplosive, who seems to be very respected at ESB and he named Norris as one of the greatest combination punchers also. It's sad that people have such a dislike for Norris just because he whooped up on Leonard which was a fight Leonard was the betting favorite going in.

[RDJ]

No love for Mi Vida Loca, Johnny Tapia?

[AndrewFFC]

Joe Calzaghe!

[Popkins]

From what I've seen of both, Chavez was more fluid.

More fluid? Really?? That's one of the key reasons why I think Duran was better. I think he was definitely more fluid than Chavez. Chavez was more measured while Duran was smoother, more intuitive, more powerful. In a way, I'd say Chavez was similar to Duran in throwing combinations, but less talented. Duran's knack of slipping and ducking while coming in with combinations was more effective than Chavez's (also brilliant) blocking and parrying while unloading. Both were ATGs in this respect though.

[Addie]

What's so wrong with me naming Norris as one of the greatest combination punchers of all time?

The very first response to this thread was from Xplosive, who seems to be very respected at ESB and he named Norris as one of the greatest combination punchers also. It's sad that people have such a dislike for Norris just because he whooped up on Leonard which was a fight Leonard was the betting favorite going in.

It's such a shame that some people actually put any stock whatsoever in Norris being an old, finished Ray Leonard.

[Addie]

More fluid? Really?? That's one of the key reasons why I think Duran was better. I think he was definitely more fluid than Chavez. Chavez was more measured while Duran was smoother, more intuitive, more powerful. In a way, I'd say Chavez was similar to Duran in throwing combinations, but less talented. Duran's knack of slipping and ducking while coming in with combinations was more effective than Chavez's (also brilliant) blocking and parrying while unloading. Both were ATGs in this respect though.

I never saw Duran throw a 4-5 punch combination in a fluid motion like Chavez did nearly every time out. Duran was a great combination puncher, and perhaps I haven't seen the best of him, but Chavez is the best combination puncher I've personally seen on film. I actually think in this department, combination punching, a lot of the more modern fighters are extremely good at it. Marco Antonio Barrera was a superb combination puncher, as was Orlando Canizales, Juan Manuel Marquez, and Ricardo Lopez. They are every bit as beautiful to watch as Duran when watching them put punches together. I'll have to watch more Duran, I have his fight with Palamino coming in the post. I've seen highlights.

[Popkins]

What's so wrong with me naming Norris as one of the greatest combination punchers of all time?

The very first response to this thread was from Xplosive, who seems to be very respected at ESB and he named Norris as one of the greatest combination punchers also. It's sad that people have such a dislike for Norris just because he whooped up on Leonard which was a fight Leonard was the betting favorite going in.

News just in!!!!!!!!!!! Norris: Was shit.

[gooners!!]

Ray Leonard & Terry Norris, both had tremendous balance and fluidity and punched with both hands at devastating speed.

[Tin_Ribs]

More fluid? Really?? That's one of the key reasons why I think Duran was better. I think he was definitely more fluid than Chavez. Chavez was more measured while Duran was smoother, more intuitive, more powerful. In a way, I'd say Chavez was similar to Duran in throwing combinations, but less talented. Duran's knack of slipping and ducking while coming in with combinations was more effective than Chavez's (also brilliant) blocking and parrying while unloading. Both were ATGs in this respect though.

Agreed. Chavez was an excellent combination puncher no doubt, but I've never seen any evidence to suggest that he was better than Duran in this or any other regard, including fluidity of punching. He was perhaps more deliberate, but nothing else. Which isn't a knock on him.

[Popkins]

I never saw Duran throw a 4-5 punch combination in a fluid motion like Chavez did nearly every time out. Duran was a great combination puncher, and perhaps I haven't seen the best of him, but Chavez is the best combination puncher I've personally seen on film. I actually think in this department, combination punching, a lot of the more modern fighters are extremely good at it. Marco Antonio Barrera was a superb combination puncher, as was Orlando Canizales, Juan Manuel Marquez, and Ricardo Lopez. They are every bit as beautiful to watch as Duran when watching them put punches together. I'll have to watch more Duran, I have his fight with Palamino coming in the post. I've seen highlights.

70s Duran threw beautiful combinations for fun, while avoiding being touched himself a lot of the time.

I think you are maybe overrating Marquez by including him in that little group, I don't think he throws combos as well as the other three (I think his technique for throwing a single shot is gorgeous though). He is a good combination-puncher of course, but I wouldn't say his ability was that outstanding that it demands to be elevated above a hundred others. I'll agree with you on Barrera though, and not just coz you want me to! :D MAB did throw a mean combination, really lovely technique.

[Popkins]

Ray Leonard & Terry Norris, both had tremendous balance and fluidity and punched with both hands at devastating speed.

Both except Norris.

[Bummy Davis]

1) JOE LOUIS> Best Power Combination Puncher ever
2) SSR > best combination puncher
3) Wille Pep...nice variety
4) Ali > speed combo
5) Archie Moore...good stuff
6) Billy Conn...nice combo's
7) Duran...left hook right hand..after jab
8) Benny Leonard
9) Mike Tyson
10) Lennox Lewis

[gooners!!]

Both except Norris.

Huh there is only two fighters there bro.

[Popkins]

Huh there is only two fighters there bro.

Exactly!

[gooners!!]

Exactly!

I dont understand what you are trying to say.

[Popkins]

I dont understand what you are trying to say.

Check back a few posts.

[gooners!!]

Still not with you Popkins. You will have to explain.

[Addie]

70s Duran threw beautiful combinations for fun, while avoiding being touched himself a lot of the time.

I think you are maybe overrating Marquez by including him in that little group, I don't think he throws combos as well as the other three (I think his technique for throwing a single shot is gorgeous though). He is a good combination-puncher of course, but I wouldn't say his ability was that outstanding that it demands to be elevated above a hundred others. I'll agree with you on Barrera though, and not just coz you want me to! :D MAB did throw a mean combination, really lovely technique.

:lol: Fair enough regarding Marquez. Don't be surprised if Divac comes in and shouts you down for it though, he's the one who claims Marco was a one handed fighter. Never mind I have hours of footage to dispute that claim, and anyone who has ever seen Marco fight, knows he's talking shit. I think Marquez can put really nice combination's together, but it's interesting to hear a different point of view. I'm sick of the General getting excited and fickle, and rating Marquez above Morales and Barrera because his best work is fresh in their memories, whilst the other two have been retired.

Youtube really needs a good Duran highlight video. I can gauge just how supremely talented both Orlando Canizales and Julio Cesar Chavez were simply by watching 3-4 minute highlight reels. You know how highly I regard his performance against Iran Barkley, but I realize that Duran was a shadow of his former self, and at Lightweight he was a whole different machine. I have seen highlight of the Palamino fight, and he did look supreme in every way.

You've stayed clear of all my Canizales propaganda this week. What's your take on the former Bantamweight king?

[Addie]

Both except Norris.

I can't help but laugh whenever Norris is mentioned. The guy was a good fighter, nothing more than that. His best wins came against past prime opposition, and his jaw was found wanting even against journeyman level opposition at times. Rooster and Blanco still insist on bringing him up on such threads though.

[GPater11093]

1 Ray Robinson - Blows me away with is combos fast left hooks right hands, right uppercuts everything. His left hook was the bread and butter of the combo doubling tripling it up.

2. Joe Louis - Just brutal combinations that were all hurtful from range or in close

3. Ike Williams - Aint seen much of him but what i have seen is reminiscent of Louis.

4. Ray Leonard - The welterweight ray Leonard was a brilliant combination puncher and some of the stuff he threw was great. Like RObisnon a left hook punctuated it although he through his look at a different angle.

5. Jose Napoles - He had that 1950s smooth Cuban style the subtle head movemnt then exploding into a counter combination his hooks to the body and head were lethal and then like all cubans of teh tiem he had that uppercut/bolo shots.

HMs: Wilfredo Gomez, Kid Gavilan, Carlos Ortiz, Fighting Harada, Ruben Olivares, Eder Jofre, Pascual Perez, Yoko Gushiken

[Popkins]

Still not with you Popkins. You will have to explain.

You obviously didn't check back. Basically I am being rude about Terry Norris. I don't think his name should be mentioned on a thread for the best combination puncher of all-time. Now if it had just been you who brought him up, I wouldn't have said a word, everyone being entitled to their own opinion and all that, but my intervention was already made (a few posts back) to that guy who first brought up Norris. I don't know the guy or anything, but he seems to throw Norris's hat into the ring for every thread going. It irritates me. One of my favourite fighters is Manny Pacquiao, but if a poll is made asking for the hardest hitter ever or the best defence ever, I'm not going to put him forward as an answer... because he obviously wasn't despite my affection for him. Saying Norris on this thread is unjustifiable IMO, of course he wasn't the best combination puncher ever, nor even remotely close to it. As I said, I was reacting to that other guy though, not you.

[Tin_Ribs]

I'm nearly 100% certain that Duran in his lightweight and early welter days displayed better combination punching than I've ever seen Chavez, Barrera, Marquez, Lopez or Canizales show. Those men at their best were all masters of fundamental combo punching technique, but they didn't have the subtlety, innovation or intuition that Duran displayed, and again much better opposition at that.

[Addie]

I'm nearly 100% certain that Duran in his lightweight and early welter days displayed better combination punching than I've ever seen Chavez, Barrera, Marquez, Lopez or Canizales show. Those men at their best were all masters of fundamental combo punching technique, but they didn't have the subtlety, innovation or intuition that Duran displayed, and again much better opposition at that.

You're entitled your opinion. It might just be a case of me not having seen the best examples of Duran's combination's, but in terms of fluidity, speed, and accuracy...I've not seen too many better than Marco Antonio Barrera over the last 20 years. What Duran fights do you recommend I watch to witness this superior combination punching you speak of?

[Popkins]

:lol: Fair enough regarding Marquez. Don't be surprised if Divac comes in and shouts you down for it though, he's the one who claims Marco was a one handed fighter. Never mind I have hours of footage to dispute that claim, and anyone who has ever seen Marco fight, knows he's talking shit. I think Marquez can put really nice combination's together, but it's interesting to hear a different point of view. I'm sick of the General getting excited and fickle, and rating Marquez above Morales and Barrera because his best work is fresh in their memories, whilst the other two have been retired.

Youtube really needs a good Duran highlight video. I can gauge just how supremely talented both Orlando Canizales and Julio Cesar Chavez were simply by watching 3-4 minute highlight reels. You know how highly I regard his performance against Iran Barkley, but I realize that Duran was a shadow of his former self, and at Lightweight he was a whole different machine. I have seen highlight of the Palamino fight, and he did look supreme in every way.

You've stayed clear of all my Canizales propaganda this week. What's your take on the former Bantamweight king?

There is an amazing Duran highlights vid on youtube, I have to go to work now but I'll send you the link later tonight.

I don't really have much of an opinion on Canizales mate. I've saw him fight Billy Hardy, and a couple of highlights vids. I think he's a solid, tidy, effective boxer, but his resume is very thin, and you could make the argument he lost to the best fighters he faced. I can appreciate why you are a fan, but his is not a career set I'd be rushing to purchase. JMHO mate.

[GPater11093]

in my HM missed out Duran and Cesaer Chavez

[Tin_Ribs]

1 Ray Robinson - Blows me away with is combos fast left hooks right hands, right uppercuts everything. His left hook was the bread and butter of the combo doubling tripling it up.

2. Joe Louis - Just brutal combinations that were all hurtful from range or in close

3. Ike Williams - Aint seen much of him but what i have seen is reminiscent of Louis.

4. Ray Leonard - The welterweight ray Leonard was a brilliant combination puncher and some of the stuff he threw was great. Like RObisnon a left hook punctuated it although he through his look at a different angle.

5. Jose Napoles - He had that 1950s smooth Cuban style the subtle head movemnt then exploding into a counter combination his hooks to the body and head were lethal and then like all cubans of teh tiem he had that uppercut/bolo shots.

HMs: Wilfredo Gomez, Kid Gavilan, Carlos Ortiz, Fighting Harada, Ruben Olivares, Eder Jofre, Pascual Perez, Yoko Gushiken

Good stuff chappie, those first 5 are hard to argue with. Perez and Gushiken never occurred to me. Chang and Zapata both threw classy combinations as well, though with differing styles.

[gooners!!]

I can't help but laugh whenever Norris is mentioned. The guy was a good fighter, nothing more than that. His best wins came against past prime opposition, and his jaw was found wanting even against journeyman level opposition at times. Rooster and Blanco still insist on bringing him up on such threads though.You can laugh all you like but he dusted Mugabi down with ease, Mugabi gave Hagler all he could handle, he also beat fighters like Meldrick Taylor who was not finished he was just fighting a bigger stronger man at a higher weight, Norris was not even a big 154 pound anyway.

Norris also beat Castro comfortably, Castro knocked out J D Jacson and beat Reggie Johnson. The same Johnson that beat Steve Collins in a war years before he beat Eubank & Benn 2x.

He also beat Blocker whom beat Starling who had knocked Breland out and schooled Honeygham and gave Nunn all he could handle at 160. ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

He has solid if not spectacular wins against faded fighters like Curry, Leonard.

He also avanged his loss to Simon Brown.

Nothing laughable about Norris's record, he fought some past prime fighters but he also had some solid wins.

[Addie]

There is an amazing Duran highlights vid on youtube, I have to go to work now but I'll send you the link later tonight.

I don't really have much of an opinion on Canizales mate. I've saw him fight Billy Hardy, and a couple of highlights vids. I think he's a solid, tidy, effective boxer, but his resume is very thin, and you could make the argument he lost to the best fighters he faced. I can appreciate why you are a fan, but his is not a career set I'd be rushing to purchase. JMHO mate.

Absolutely. The points you make regarding his resume are justified, and you could say he lost to Wilfredo Vasquez and Junior Jones, the best two opponents of his career. I prefer to view those two fights as taking place above Orlando's most effective weight, and when he was leaving his prime years. The Vasquez fight could have gone either way by most accounts. I just think in terms of ability, I'd rather watch Orlando Canizales than any other fighter ever...because of hos he delivered shots, the angles he creates for himself...he was exceptional. I've purchased his career set, and I don't envision being disappointed.

[Addie]

He has solid if not spectacular wins against faded fighters like Curry, Leonard.

:verysad ...This is what I'm talking about.

[GPater11093]

Good stuff chappie, those first 5 are hard to argue with. Perez and Gushiken never occurred to me. Chang and Zapata both threw classy combinations as well, though with differing styles.

its no the top 5 just 5 names i think are the best out of maybe a pot of 15-20

Perez is good IMO really sta down on his combos but changed angles real quick after it and rarely threw a single shot. Gushiken again he ddint throw much but when he did it was almost always in combos and they was brutal.

Yeh Chang and Zapata are good shouts, Zapata is abit of the more Pernell Whittaker type combo puncher whereas Chang IMO is more like a Harada or a young Duran

[gooners!!]

:verysad ...This is what I'm talking about.


Some does not equate to all though does it. Id be a fool to suggest he fought them at their best, but id also be undervaluing him if i tried to say all the guys he beat were faded.


I know Amir Khan is a lot faster than JLR
but i dare say he is not considered a better fighter at this point in his career, that said his name
is more likely to be mentioned in the speed category than JLR regardless of resume.

[Addie]

Some does not equate to all though does it. Id be a fool to suggest he fought them at their best, but id also be undervaluing him if i tried to say all the guys he beat were faded.


I know Amir Khan is a lot faster than JLR
but i dare say he is not considered a better fighter at this point in his career, that said his name
is more likely to be mentioned in the speed category than JLR regardless of resume.

Dude...wins over Curry and Leonard meant fuck all back then, and they mean nothing now. ...They aren't solid wins.

[Tin_Ribs]

You're entitled your opinion. It might just be a case of me not having seen the best examples of Duran's combination's, but in terms of fluidity, speed, and accuracy...I've not seen too many better than Marco Antonio Barrera over the last 20 years. What Duran fights do you recommend I watch to witness this superior combination punching you speak of?

Probably Leonard I, Palomino, DeJesus II and III, Lampkin and maybe the Buchanan fight, though he wasn't as well rounded at that point. Perhaps even the Marcel fight, considering that Duran was just a kid and Marcel was a superb fighter at his best.

It's the little things with Duran that impress me: the feints and shifts of body movement to set everything up, the way he was almost impossible to hit back for such an aggressive fighter, his overall variety and punch selection. Even the best ring generals struggled to nullify him in this regard.

It's only a small difference, but it's what separates him IMO.

[gooners!!]

Dude...wins over Curry and Leonard meant fuck all back then, and they mean nothing now. ...They aren't solid wins. I already said that didn't i? just because they were not spectacular wins you dont dismiss all the other fighters he beat as past prime.

[Tin_Ribs]

its no the top 5 just 5 names i think are the best out of maybe a pot of 15-20

Perez is good IMO really sta down on his combos but changed angles real quick after it and rarely threw a single shot. Gushiken again he ddint throw much but when he did it was almost always in combos and they was brutal.

Yeh Chang and Zapata are good shouts, Zapata is abit of the more Pernell Whittaker type combo puncher whereas Chang IMO is more like a Harada or a young Duran

I know, they were just great names is all.

I'm liking Gushiken and Chang at the minute, and I'm gonna try to get round to watching more of Perez when I get time.

Gushiken reminds me of how Mijares should have turned out.

[GPater11093]

I know, they were just great names is all.

I'm liking Gushiken and Chang at the minute, and I'm gonna try to get round to watching more of Perez when I get time.

Gushiken reminds me of how Mijares should have turned out.

Ive been in Chang for a while but Teeto got me into Gushiken but i aint seen Mijares so i cant comment

Perez really impresses me he was lighton his feet but hugely strong at the weight and hard to catch

[Tin_Ribs]

When he wasn't being a lazy bastard, Eddie Mustafa Mohammed could put slick, old school combos together with blood-curdling power. But he was too content to sit on his arse too much of the time.

Billy Conn could flurry and combo brilliantly in equal measure, and Harold Johnson put textbook punches together as good as any big man I've seen.

[BENNY BLANCO]

I already said that didn't i? just because they were not spectacular wins you dont dismiss all the other fighters he beat as past prime. Thank you for your input and saving me time on defending Norris.

I don't see whats so fucking wrong with mentioning Terry Norris as one of the best combo punchers of all time. Okay one may not take heed to his resume but don't dismiss Norris as just a "good fighter" and that's it, the man was at his best an 'A' level fighter who possessed some of the best skills ever and is one of the top 3 greatest junior middleweights of all time.

[GPater11093]

When he wasn't being a lazy bastard, Eddie Mustafa Mohammed could put slick, old school combos together with blood-curdling power. But he was too content to sit on his arse too much of the time.

Billy Conn could flurry and combo brilliantly in equal measure, and Harold Johnson put textbook punches together as good as any big man I've seen.

your right there watched his fight with Jones last night.

Brillaint combinations behind a brillaint jab. like dteh way he set them up with his jab and used his straight right.

[Minotauro]

Charles and Jofre are right up there.

[Tin_Ribs]

your right there watched his fight with Jones last night.

Brillaint combinations behind a brillaint jab. like dteh way he set them up with his jab and used his straight right.

It's a class display isn't it? All punches thrown perfectly off the jab at precisely the right moment. Like a bigger version of Hopkins in a sense. Jones was a class himself act; he'd have cleaned up this rum lot today.

[GPater11093]

It's a class display isn't it? All punches thrown perfectly off the jab at precisely the right moment. Like a bigger version of Hopkins in a sense. Jones was a class himself act; he'd have cleaned up this rum lot today.

very impressed. It washis jab that i was most impressed with really kept Jones off balnce

He would have cleaned up today but in the spirit of the thread Chad Dawson is a no bad combination puncher obviously not of the level being discussed here

[robert ungurean]

Probably Leonard I, Palomino, DeJesus II and III, Lampkin and maybe the Buchanan fight, though he wasn't as well rounded at that point. Perhaps even the Marcel fight, considering that Duran was just a kid and Marcel was a superb fighter at his best.

It's the little things with Duran that impress me: the feints and shifts of body movement to set everything up, the way he was almost impossible to hit back for such an aggressive fighter, his overall variety and punch selection. Even the best ring generals struggled to nullify him in this regard.

It's only a small difference, but it's what separates him IMO.
:good

[Tin_Ribs]

very impressed. It washis jab that i was most impressed with really kept Jones off balnce

He would have cleaned up today but in the spirit of the thread Chad Dawson is a no bad combination puncher obviously not of the level being discussed here

I like Dawson. He's overrated, laughably so in some circles, but I enjoy watching him and he comes across a nice, classy kid. Fast hands too, good flurrier even if his technique is a bit suspect. Plus he gave Johnson a rematch when most wouldn't have bothered.

[Addie]

Throwing all these names out, I have no real perspective. How about we try and break up the combination punchers into tiers. For example

Tier 1 - Sugar Ray Robinson, Julio Cesar Chavez, Roberto Duran, Alexis Arguello
Tier 2 - Marco Antonio Barrera, Ricardo Lopez, Orlando Canizales

[Mantequilla]

Norris does deserve to be mentioned here i think, and i'm no big fan of him.

His left/right/uppcercut variations were superb.


Galindez was a brutal combo puncher.Azumah Nelson similar in style, but not as fluid.

Rodolfo el Gato Gonzalez was a master

Guty Espadas
Tony Sibson
Bernardo Caraballo
Rodrigo Valdez
Davey Moore
Jibaro Perez
Mike McCallum

[Robbi]

From what I've seen of both, Chavez was more fluid.

Chavez wasn't more fluid than Duran when putting punches together. That doesn't stricly mean Duran was a better combination puncher.

[Addie]

Chavez wasn't more fluid than Duran when putting punches together. That doesn't stricly mean Duran was a better combination puncher.

All you do is come on and quote something I said and disagree. It's tiring.

From what I've seen of both, Chavez was more fluid...and a better combination puncher. From what I've seen. Nothing even in the first Leonard I fight changed my mind, but unless you want to pose some video examples as to what you're talking about...no point in arguing.

[Mantequilla]

Jiro Watanabe
Luis Rodriguez
baby Luis

[Addie]

Chavez wasn't more fluid than Duran when putting punches together. That doesn't stricly mean Duran was a better combination puncher.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I might have been wrong..and than bit at 3.27 is awesome.

[turpinr]

ruben olivares is up there

[teeto]

Charles and Jofre are right up there.
Definitely

[Robbi]

All you do is come on and quote something I said and disagree. It's tiring.

From what I've seen of both, Chavez was more fluid...and a better combination puncher. From what I've seen. Nothing even in the first Leonard I fight changed my mind, but unless you want to pose some video examples as to what you're talking about...no point in arguing.

It's tiring? I only done it once. Chavez was tighter with his punches and very accurate. Duran was more free-flowing and fluid with his punches. More elasticated so to speak. :good

[teeto]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I might have been wrong..and than bit at 3.27 is awesome.
This video shows how good he was up close. Like i always say, you need to see it to believe it. Probably the best fighter i've ever seen.

[teeto]

Jiro Watanabe
Luis Rodriguez
baby Luis
I was watching Watanabe earlier and thinking of adding him, but refrained. I was waiting for a greatest pure boxers or ring generals to come up, hint hint. Great at putting them together as well though.

[GPater11093]

I like Dawson. He's overrated, laughably so in some circles, but I enjoy watching him and he comes across a nice, classy kid. Fast hands too, good flurrier even if his technique is a bit suspect. Plus he gave Johnson a rematch when most wouldn't have bothered.

hes good he can be overrated but as a whole i think hes underrated

Tarver x2
Johnson x2
Adamek

not a bad list IMO

Jiro Watanabe
Luis Rodriguez
baby Luis

Watanabe is a great shout the best stand up boxer i have seen from Asia (on second thoughts Gushiken is it) but still a good stand up boxer with a relaxed (sometimes too much so) style.

Rodriguez is another good shout has that 50s Cuban style the loose hooks and uppercut kinda style although he was more boxer than say Napoles.

I was watching Watanabe earlier and thinking of adding him, but refrained. I was waiting for a greatest pure boxers or ring generals to come up, hint hint. Great at putting them together as well though.

summed him up well

[Drew101]

Norris is actually a pretty good shout.
And, especially in the early part of his career, so is Trinidad. Tito threw a nice variety of combinations with either hand.

[mcvey]

Havent seen better than Ray Robinson for variety,power,speed and accuracy. An honourable mention for Floyd Patterson as all my other good ones have been mentioned already

I was wondering if anyone would even mention FLOYD!

[Popkins]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I might have been wrong..and than bit at 3.27 is awesome.

I came on tonight to post this very video, but as you have already found it there's no need. My favourite highlights vid ever.

[JohnConteh]

im suprised more people dont have roy jones on there lists

he threw with combos power, speed, angles and accuracy

[turpinr]

ike williams

[johnmaff36]

I was wondering if anyone would even mention FLOYD!
Looks like we're the only two. Hard to beleive IMO

[CharlieGarbs]

I guess my top 2 would be Robinson and Louis.

thhhhhhhhhhhis

[Bill Butcher]

For a blend of power, speed & pin point accuracy, Id say its between Robinson & Louis, personally.

Tho my favourite combination of all time is the one in my signature, Ali vs Brian London, love the speed, awesome shit.

[Duodenum]

I'm no great fan of Ray Charles Leonard, but he was all about combinations. I was watching his match with Dick Eklund, and the picture was breaking up. When it did, you could hear from the sound Ray's punches made when he unloaded a knockdown combination. (He dropped Eklund four times during their bout.)

While I agree with Robinson being atop the list, placing SRL second would not be unreasonable.

As regards Duran, I haven't seen his complete fight with Palomino, but his combination punching was reported as being blindingly fast and too varied for Carlos to predict.

Louis is the obvious standard bearer for heavyweights, with all due respect to Ali. (Muhammad's finishing off of London was a thing of beauty though.)

[Titan1]

When he was on, Michael Dokes.

[Bill Butcher]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I might have been wrong..and than bit at 3.27 is awesome.

This is the best HL vid of Duran Ive ever seen, shows him at his best.

:good

[werety]

I think that if you wanted to see Duran's combination punching the perfect fight to watch would be Dejesus 2. Most see Dejesus 3 as his best performance but when it comes to combinations I think that the second fight provides the best display.

[Vantage_West]

Norris has become like a spoof on ESB. If in doubt, Terry Norris.
:lol: no of course not


he is the greatest of all time :thumbsup


blazing fast hands, hard puncher, great combination puncher, underated boxing skills and glass jaw. you can put him into any thread without much complain from anyone...except addie. and fuck it, it was only a year ago since there was only 2 norris fans who post in the classic forum.