Lewis v Klitschko: the Cut

[ocelot]

Just rewatched this fight and still can't figure out how a very ordinary punch could have caused that gash. Was there a headbutt in there somewhere that I didn't see? Btw, that fight could have gone either way. Vitali was up on points, but either guy could have found the will to win in the late rounds. It's a real shame that a cut decided it.

[lefthook89]

here we go yet AGAIN!!:roll:

[Thread Stealer]

It was from that looping overhand right early in round 3, then Lewis hit Klitschko with another right hand.

[My2Sense]

It's a real shame that a cut decided it.

Which "cut"(singular) here are you referring to?

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[Fighting Weight]

Which "cut"(singular) here are you referring to?

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All that damage came from a 'lucky punch' if you believe the VITLAY lovers :lol::lol::lol:

All I can say is Lewis must have fucking enormous fists if one punch did all that. I bet he can't sleep at night knowing he lost the event :nut

[BENNY BLANCO]

All that damage came from a 'lucky punch' if you believe the VITLAY lovers :lol::lol::lol:

All I can say is Lewis must have fucking enormous fists if one punch did all that. I bet he can't sleep at night knowing he lost the event :nut 'Look at the state of his face'.:lol:

[Karl Jade]

Watch the replay of the overhand right (start of R3) in slow motion, you can practically see his eye socket cave in.

[TheGreatA]

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2:55

[Thread Stealer]

All that damage came from a 'lucky punch' if you believe the VITLAY lovers :lol::lol::lol:

All I can say is Lewis must have fucking enormous fists if one punch did all that. I bet he can't sleep at night knowing he lost the event :nut

I've actually heard a Klit-Licker claim that the cut was "barely a scratch on his face and not serious at all".

He didn't even say it jokingly or in a trolling way, either.

[Karl Jade]

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2:55

3:03 :shock:

[The Mongoose]

Funny breakdown, actually looks pretty accurate.


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[KTFO]

Cornrows are bada$$.

[Ted Stickles]

I dont know why people think Vitali would have beaten Lennox.....Lennox was definately on a downward spiral at this point and to me he was slow starting and then he started to take the fight over.....Also he didnt exactly look in top shape for this fight.

[manbearpig]

Lewis annihilated his face with his punches. He won. TKO. Get over it.

[Bummy Davis]

There was a hard right hand punch but there were also some very evident head smashes by Lewis, which came first, I am in the opinion of the right hand but I do not know the damage of the corn rows. I have heard they are painfull to get hit by. Needless to say the result was a tko

[ocelot]

Funny breakdown, actually looks pretty accurate.


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That is a good analysis. Sucks to be Vitali there.

[Robbi]

Just rewatched this fight and still can't figure out how a very ordinary punch could have caused that gash. Was there a headbutt in there somewhere that I didn't see? Btw, that fight could have gone either way. Vitali was up on points, but either guy could have found the will to win in the late rounds. It's a real shame that a cut decided it.

It was a single overhand right from Lewis. I don't know which version you watched but the SKY replays clearly showed the cut opening after Lewis landed the right hand.

[Mendoza]

There was a hard right hand punch but there were also some very evident head smashes by Lewis, which came first, I am in the opinion of the right hand but I do not know the damage of the corn rows. I have heard they are painfull to get hit by. Needless to say the result was a tko

In boxing, the worst cuts are usually caused by head buts or loose tape on the gloves, not from clean punches.

What we have here is a punch, then a clear meeting of heads where the top of Lewis forehead meets Vitali's eye in a downward fashion. The anti-Klitschko fans might cry foul, but watch the tape and you'll see there was definitely some contact.

Fightnews.com said it was loose tape on Lewis gloves that caused the cut.

It could have been a punch, lose tape, or a butt. No one can say with 100% sure. What can be said for sure it was a great fight. Vitali proved himself that night and was up 4-2 on all three cards prior to the ring doctor stopping the fight on cuts.

Boxing needed a re-match. Lewis opted not to press his luck. According to Vitali, this was the first time he was cut in his kick boxing or pro boxing career.

[ocelot]

After watching it again in slo-mo, the cuts, or their severity, were likely the result of all of the above: punches, tape and butts. It struck me as strange that Vitali's face was gashed open when he'd never been cut before nor since.

[essexboy]

This has been dissected enough times. Previous threads have all came to the same conclusion: Lennox won fairly.

[Polymath]

After watching it again in slo-mo, the cuts, or their severity, were likely the result of all of the above: punches, tape and butts. It struck me as strange that Vitali's face was gashed open when he'd never been cut before nor since.

He never fought Lennox Lewis before or since.

[janitor]

He never fought Lennox Lewis before or since.

This is a crucial point.

Take everybody else who Vitally Klitschko fought and Lewis could probably have beaten any two of them in the same night.

[Meast]

He never fought Lennox Lewis before or since.

:good

[KTFO]

Ezzard Charles TKO7 Rocky Marciano
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[manbearpig]

What we have here is a punch, then a clear meeting of heads where the top of Lewis forehead meets Vitali's eye in a downward fashion. The anti-Klitschko fans might cry foul, but watch the tape and you'll see there was definitely some contact.

Fightnews.com said it was loose tape on Lewis gloves that caused the cut.

It could have been a punch, lose tape, or a butt. No one can say with 100% sure. What can be said for sure it was a great fight. Vitali proved himself that night and was up 4-2 on all three cards prior to the ring doctor stopping the fight on cuts.

Boxing needed a re-match. Lewis opted not to press his luck. According to Vitali, this was the first time he was cut in his kick boxing or pro boxing career.

Laughable bias. It was a right hand which decimated your hero's face. Get over it. Klitschko fucked up his one chance he had with an (Out of shape past prime) ATG. No joy.

[janitor]

Ezzard Charles TKO7 Rocky Marciano
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Under todays rules it would have been Rocky Marciano TD Ezzard Charles.

[lefthook31]

I remember an uppercut doing the most damage. Im sure his mouthpiece was at a certain angle where it just slashed right through his lip when Lewis landed. Either way Lewis was getting closer and closer and landing cleaner and cleaner. Theres a reason for that, and it was because of the pressure Lewis was putting on him.
I actually thought it was a perfect gameplan on Lewis' part and it made him look somewhat bad and elevated Vitali to this mythical status, but I believe Vitali is an overated puncher so Lewis could afford to take those chances, and as it became more of a fight and less of a boxing match Lewis broke him down very quickly.
Even Lennox Lewis would have a tough time outboxing Vitali because hes very agile for a big man and fights very tall and awkward, so the only way to beat him is to make him fight hard.

[Vanboxingfan]

In boxing, the worst cuts are usually caused by head buts or loose tape on the gloves, not from clean punches.

What we have here is a punch, then a clear meeting of heads where the top of Lewis forehead meets Vitali's eye in a downward fashion. The anti-Klitschko fans might cry foul, but watch the tape and you'll see there was definitely some contact.

Fightnews.com said it was loose tape on Lewis gloves that caused the cut.

It could have been a punch, lose tape, or a butt. No one can say with 100% sure. What can be said for sure it was a great fight. Vitali proved himself that night and was up 4-2 on all three cards prior to the ring doctor stopping the fight on cuts.

Boxing needed a re-match. Lewis opted not to press his luck. According to Vitali, this was the first time he was cut in his kick boxing or pro boxing career.

Ya, but as the pic of Vitali clearly shows, there was more than one cut. Regardless of what caused the cut above the eye, it's pretty much certain that the other cuts were caused by punches.

[Unforgiven]

Dem Damn Dreadlocks !

:lol:

[lefthook31]

Ya, but as the pic of Vitali clearly shows, there was more than one cut. Regardless of what caused the cut above the eye, it's pretty much certain that the other cuts were caused by punches.
Not only that the main cut the one on his lip was caused by a punch and that was what stopped the fight. The reason Vitalis mouth was hanging open was because he was choking on blood. When your breathing hard and have that much blood in your mouth it starts to choke you when you start swallowing it. Vitali was in big trouble either way.

[Del Boy]

A horrible cut. A win is a win as they say so give Lennox his due. All i will say is vitali would have taken it by the end

[Polymath]

A horrible cut. A win is a win as they say so give Lennox his due. All i will say is vitali would have taken it by the end

Damn Vitali looks like a gimp in your avatar. You can find one of him looking more imposing.

[Fighting Weight]

Laughable bias. It was a right hand which decimated your hero's face. Get over it. Klitschko fucked up his one chance he had with an (Out of shape past prime) ATG. No joy.

You're talking to the man that once said Lewis made the cuts worse with his "illegal dreadlocks and beard", I wouldn't expect anything but bias from him. :lol:

[Muchmoore]

Damn Vitali looks like a gimp in your avatar. You can find one of him looking more imposing.

:lol::good

I love how people completely ignore the fact that it was Lewis getting the best of Vitali when the fight was stopped, too.

[Seamus]

I'm a huge Lewis fan, but Good Lord, how many of his KO's were a result of holding the head with one hand and firing with the other?

Just saying.

[manbearpig]

I'm a huge Lewis fan

No you're not you fucking liar. Lewis was bad for holding and hitting though.

[mrbassie]

I'm a huge Lewis fan, but Good Lord, how many of his KO's were a result of holding the head with one hand and firing with the other?

Just saying.

One?

[MRBILL]

I love the fight and the fighters involved............... Lewis won......... He was lucky but he won.......... "Lewis-Klit" is a modern 21st century classic heavyweight title fight....... It is secured deep in the book........... But we've also beaten the topic into the ground like a dead horse off the side of the road.......... Let's move onward..........

MR.BILL

[Seamus]

One?

Did you ever hear of a fight with Michael Grant?

[mrbassie]

Did you ever hear of a fight with Michael Grant?

I was joking.

[Seamus]

I was joking.

Gotcha.

[ghostlybadge]

Its a fight that will go down in history

Lewis won Vit was in front and i think Vit would have won the fight.

The cuts are from punches and made worse due to the headbuts.

overall was a great fight that is worth watching again and again

[DDA365]

I love this fight and have watched it loads of times. On the cuts, you can always find some sort of doubt but theres a clear punch to the eye, and a possible soft headbut and possibly maybe a glove scratch. Youve got to believe the punch did the real damage.

I also though that Lewis was not looking much worse in the 6th than he was in the 1st whereas Vitalis power seemed to have gone.

[Mendoza]

Laughable bias. It was a right hand which decimated your hero's face. Get over it. Klitschko fucked up his one chance he had with an (Out of shape past prime) ATG. No joy.

By the way, Vitali took this fight on less than 2 weeks notice. Had Vitali known it was Lewis, he would have had a much better camp. As it was Lewis was training to go 12 vs. Kirk Johnson.

Lewis said he would give a re-match. He had a $18,000,000.00 pay day lined up. He balked, because deep down he knew he would not be lucky the second time around, so he retired before he could be stripped of his belt. Lewis ducked the re-match worse than Bowe ducked Lewis.

Also, Lewis was dead tired after the 6th. He crashed hard on his stool. We all know how much energy Vitali had left when he learned the fight was stopped. While the cut was bad, I wish we saw a 7th round.

[lefthook31]

By the way, Vitali took this fight on less than 2 weeks notice. Had Vitali known it was Lewis, he would have had a much better camp. As it was Lewis was training to go 12 vs. Kirk Johnson.

Lewis said he would give a re-match. He had a $18,000,000.00 pay day lined up. He balked, because deep down he knew he would not be lucky the second time around, so he retired before he could be stripped of his belt. Lewis ducked the re-match worse than Bowe ducked Lewis.

Also, Lewis was dead tired after the 6th. He crashed hard on his stool. We all know how much energy Vitali had left when he learned the fight was stopped. While the cut was bad, I wish we saw a 7th round.
:lol: are you nuts?

[Mendoza]

:lol: are you nuts?

Even Max Kellerman, who is not a fan of the Klitschko's agrees that Lewis was very tired after the 6th.

Yes. Vitali took the fight on less than 2 weeks notice.

Yes. Lewis said he would give a re-match.

Yes, Lewis balked when the money was up.

Which part do you disagree with?

[JohnThomas1]

Lewis said he would give a re-match. He had a $18,000,000.00 pay day lined up. He balked, because deep down he knew he would not be lucky the second time around, so he retired before he could be stripped of his belt. Lewis ducked the re-match worse than Bowe ducked Lewis.



Absolute biased speculation and sensationalism. Lewis sole reason for breathing and walking the earth sure wasn't built around Vitali.

This match is very likely the time when Lewis simply realised enough was enough and it was time to let it all go. Father time had taken his toll on the skills and wills and his willingness to go thru gruelling camps was no longer there. Here he was struggling with a guy he would not have rated that highly and would have believed he would have beaten far easier a few short years prior.

Kudo's to Lewis, contrary to the likes of Holmes, Ali et al knowing when enough was enough and getting out of the game before some young lion forced him out of it. Money meant little to Lewis at this stage, he'd made enough for lifetimes of luxury.

You act like Vitali had some sort of god given right to a rematch yet you defend Holmes for not fighting number 1 contenders and avoiding rematches with those who gave him compelling battles like Witherspoon. At least Lewis didn't continue fighting on and skirt Vitali like Holmes did Timmy.

The simple truth of the matter is Lewis beat Vitali fairly and squarely in the ring and he was lucky not to have ended with permanent damage as it was. The man was an absolute mess and no proper fan would wish for him to fight on under those conditions.

[Mendoza]

Absolute biased speculation and sensationalism. Lewis sole reason for breathing and walking the earth sure wasn't built around Vitali.

This match is very likely the time when Lewis simply realised enough was enough and it was time to let it all go. Father time had taken his toll on the skills and wills and his willingness to go thru gruelling camps was no longer there. Here he was struggling with a guy he would not have rated that highly and would have believed he would have beaten far easier a few short years prior.

Kudo's to Lewis, unlike the likes of Holmes, Ali et al knowing when enough was enough and getting out of the game before some young lion forced him out of it. Money meant little to Lewis at this stage, he'd made enough for lifetimes of luxury.

You act like Vitali had some sort of god given right to a rematch yet you defend Holmes for not fighting number 1 contenders and avoiding rematches with those who gave him compelling battles like Witherspoon. At least Lewis didn't continue fighting on and skirt Vitali like Holmes did Timmy.

The simple truth of the matter is Lewis beat Vitali fairly and squarely in the ring and he was lucky not to have ended with permanent damage as it was. The man was an absolute mess and no proper fan would wish for him to fight on under those conditions.

JT,

Heres my beef. Lewis said multiple times he'd give the re-match, and talked trash as if he was an active fighter. Then exited stage left when the money was up. If Lewis kept his mouth shut, I would have had no issues with him retiring. But he didn't. He said I'll eat them for breakfast and lunch, yada, yada, yada...

Klitschko vs. Lewis II would have been a huge fight for boxing. As a fan I felt we missed out on a great one.

[lefthook31]

JT is right, and really Lewis exposed how bad Vitali really was up against a faded great. That fight was comparable to Lewis Holyfield or Tyson Holmes, and Vitali failed miserably. He was outfought by a disinterested fighter who was past his best, and to me exposed and confirmed the biggest flaw in Vitali. He cant fight.

[Muchmoore]

Even Max Kellerman, who is not a fan of the Klitschko's agrees that Lewis was very tired after the 6th.

Yes. Vitali took the fight on less than 2 weeks notice.

Yes. Lewis said he would give a re-match.

Yes, Lewis balked when the money was up.

Which part do you disagree with?

Lewis was in the worst shape of his career and nearly 38 years old. Vitali had no business losing this fight if he is as good as people try to make him out to be.

Lewis didn't NEED the Vitali rematch.

[Mendoza]

JT is right, and really Lewis exposed how bad Vitali really was up against a faded great. That fight was comparable to Lewis Holyfield or Tyson Holmes, and Vitali failed miserably. He was outfought by a disinterested fighter who was past his best, and to me exposed and confirmed the biggest flaw in Vitali. He cant fight.

Lewis was perhaps the best or 2nd best 38 year old I've ever seen. With a smashing performance over Rhaman in the 2nd fight, what makes you think Lewis was past it? The 2nd Rhaman fight was one of Lewis best performances.

To compare the Lewis who fought Vitali to the Tyson who fought Lewis is a joke. Tyson was washed up and had one round in him. Horrible analogy. Also, how can you say Vitali can't fight????? I might as well stop here lefthook as your not being reasonable with your comments.

There was no rematch for a reason. Vitali would have knocked Lewis out.

As it played out, Vitali proved he could take a punch, and showed guts fighting with a bad cut. He also out boxed Lewis, which is no easy task.

[Mendoza]

Lewis was in the worst shape of his career and nearly 38 years old. Vitali had no business losing this fight if he is as good as people try to make him out to be.

Lewis didn't NEED the Vitali rematch.

Lewis needed the re-match vs. McCall and Rhaman didn't he? Those two had the courage to offer a re-match. Lewis did not take the re-match. In fact he was angling for a shot vs. Kirk Johnson in Canada, which crumbled when Vitali Ko'd Johnson in two, then winked into the camera and told Lewis he knows he saw this fight.

[McGrain]

Lewis retired because he had slipped and may have lost to an inferior fighter. The man is entitled to keep his options open until the decision to retire was made, and that's what he did. Lewis stopped Klitschko with punching. The rest is just noise, i'm afraid.

[Muchmoore]

Lewis needed the re-match vs. McCall and Rhaman didn't he? Those two had the courage to offer a re-match

Those two weren't in their late thirtees and overflowing with money.

Entirely different, the fact that you don't see this (or just don't choose to) astounds me.

[Mendoza]

Those two weren't in their late thirtees and overflowing with money.

Entirely different, the fact that you don't see this (or just don't choose to) astounds me.

I see the facts that Lewis said he'd take the re-match, talked a good game, then tucked tail when Vitali worked his way to the mandatory and was about to be stripped--leaving over $15,000,000.00 on the table. Can you see those facts?

Oh--Rhaman was overflowing with money when he took the re-match with Lewis. Don't kid yourself.

[McGrain]

Give where Lewis was in his career and where he was in his time of life, his beating of Klitschko, a most excellent fighter and arguably the best HW since his retirement is a really special result, just as an aside.

[McGrain]

I see the facts that Lewis said he'd take the re-match, talked a good game, then tucked tail when Vitali worked his way to the mandatory and was about to be stripped--leaving over $15,000,000.00 on the table. Can you see those facts?
.


It's not reasonable to make the fact that Lewis talked about a rematch then retired your main bone of contention. Fighters aren't just fighters. Lewis wouldn't have talked the re-match up for fits and giggles. He would have been considering the re-match whilst also taking advice from proffessional colleagues and family. The outcome of this consideration and discussion was retirement aged what - 40? There's absolutley nothing unreasonable about that.

[PowerPuncher]

Incidently Lewis and Vitali are friends now, Vitali and his wife visit Lennox in his house in Jamaica, I doubt during dinner Vitali says 'I would hav von in de 7th I won de event, gimme rematch' and Lennox replies 'TKO6, Bitch'

[lefthook31]

Lewis was perhaps the best or 2nd best 38 year old I've ever seen. With a smashing performance over Rhaman in the 2nd fight, what makes you think Lewis was past it? The 2nd Rhaman fight was one of Lewis best performances.

To compare the Lewis who fought Vitali to the Tyson who fought Lewis is a joke. Tyson was washed up and had one round in him. Horrible analogy. Also, how can you say Vitali can't fight????? I might as well stop here lefthook as your not being reasonable with your comments.

There was no rematch for a reason. Vitali would have knocked Lewis out.

As it played out, Vitali proved he could take a punch, and showed guts fighting with a bad cut. He also out boxed Lewis, which is no easy task.
How did I do that. I said Vitali's fight with Lewis was like a passing of the torch type fight similar to Lewis defeating Holyfield or Tyson defeating Holmes or Spinks. The new up and coming great showcasing his skills against a past their best former great. This is what I meant and where Vitali failed.

[Muchmoore]

I see the facts that Lewis said he'd take the re-match, talked a good game, then tucked tail when Vitali worked his way to the mandatory and was about to be stripped--leaving over $15,000,000.00 on the table. Can you see those facts?

Oh--Rhaman was overflowing with money when he took the re-match with Lewis. Don't kid yourself.

Whatever man. Vitali did chase Lewis into retirement a bit, not because Lewis was scared, just that his fight with Vitali showed Lennox just how far he had slipped and he knew it was time to get out. Lennox was in the worst shape of his career and nearly 38 and still won. That should tell you something.

If Lewis was 27, you would make sense, but considering that he was nearly 40 when he retired your argument is silly.

If you're telling yourself that Vitali, by making a nearly 40 year old washed up former champion and ATG retire, showed Lennox was a coward after after all he accomplished, then there's not a point even arguing against this insanity.

[Boxed Ears]

Not only that the main cut the one on his lip was caused by a punch and that was what stopped the fight. The reason Vitalis mouth was hanging open was because he was choking on blood. When your breathing hard and have that much blood in your mouth it starts to choke you when you start swallowing it. Vitali was in big trouble either way.

His mouth is always open and it's a wonder he hasn't had his jaw broken a dozen times. He's like Jordan and his tongue sticking out.

[Boxed Ears]

Also, with all this talk about how far past it Lewis supposedly was and how Vitali failed with that in mind...Why isn't anybody mentioning that Lewis is absolutely notorious for having matured late, just like Tyson was notorious for peaking so early? That he didn't seem hungry and let himself go a little bit is evident to me but he was as good as I've seen him in his two previous fights. I don't think age had as much to do with his less than stellar looking game that night as a combination of not training properly and fighting a top notch opponent he very much underestimated. An opponent that could give anybody hell on any given day.

Failing to train properly would be his fault, not father time. That happens to a lot of young fighters too. Lewis was a beast for anybody in the division either way. ATG heavyweight, coming off some of his best wins and still the dominant champ, guys. Don't make it sound like Vitali got his face demolished by some crotchety old has been so far past his best he would be exposed as a fraud if he were to lose to him...He went life and death with one of the greatest who didn't come in top shape but was a beast nonetheless. Why is this controversial for anybody? A slightly faded and under-motivated Lewis pulled off an extremely hard fought victory at the end of his career against a great young fighter. Not, Lewis was shot and some overrated bum couldn't even finish him. Give both of these guys some damn credit. Yes, Lennox was easily losing on points but did the damage with his great strength and earned a victory. Yes Vitali proved himself by going toe to toe and scoring heavily against a truly great champion. No, it is not a disgrace for Vitali to have lost. Yes, the stoppage was correct in every way. Yes, Lennox had the right not to fight Vitali again. And because of that we can still understand his words when he let's loose brain droppings like "You know he's serious if he trains in Vegas...There are no nightclubs in Vegas." Then we can go "I understood what he said perfectly, but what the hell did he just say?"

[ocelot]

Man, I created a monster by starting this thread, unleashed a shitstorm. I started it because I was curious about the cuts, as I couldn't see a shot landing that was heavy enough to do the damage that resulted. I don't have a dog in the fight though. I'm a fan of both fighters. I just wish it could have gone the full 12. I do think prime Lewis beats Vitali nearly every time though.

[Vantage_West]

After watching it again in slo-mo, the cuts, or their severity, were likely the result of all of the above: punches, tape and butts. It struck me as strange that Vitali's face was gashed open when he'd never been cut before nor since.
but he hadnt been hit before or after. his defence has always been to lean back and dissappear into the clouds. he uses it very well. but i think a tall guy,big puncher,long reach,good inside (most big guys lewis fought get destroyed grant,golota,ruddock) and with championship level ability....was able to stop vitali form coming on. lennox clearly just forgot about boxing like most fo the times he fought guys who were bigger than him he was pretty aggressive. also a big right hand puncher who just concentrated on that left eye is gonna leave a mark.



good thread

[janitor]

I see the facts that Lewis said he'd take the re-match, talked a good game, then tucked tail when Vitali worked his way to the mandatory and was about to be stripped--leaving over $15,000,000.00 on the table. Can you see those facts?


Lewis no longer had the enthusiasm to train up to his best standard and he knew it could only go downhill from here.

Perhaps you/we should be gratefull to see a champion retire at the top of his game with his physical and mental health intact.

It is something that we dont see all too often.

[PowerPuncher]

Also, with all this talk about how far past it Lewis supposedly was and how Vitali failed with that in mind...Why isn't anybody mentioning that Lewis is absolutely notorious for having matured late, just like Tyson was notorious for peaking so early? That he didn't seem hungry and let himself go a little bit is evident to me but he was as good as I've seen him in his two previous fights. I don't think age had as much to do with his less than stellar looking game that night as a combination of not training properly and fighting a top notch opponent he very much underestimated. An opponent that could give anybody hell on any given day.

Failing to train properly would be his fault, not father time. That happens to a lot of young fighters too. Lewis was a beast for anybody in the division either way. ATG heavyweight, coming off some of his best wins and still the dominant champ, guys. Don't make it sound like Vitali got his face demolished by some crotchety old has been so far past his best he would be exposed as a fraud if he were to lose to him...He went life and death with one of the greatest who didn't come in top shape but was a beast nonetheless. Why is this controversial for anybody? A slightly faded and under-motivated Lewis pulled off an extremely hard fought victory at the end of his career against a great young fighter. Not, Lewis was shot and some overrated bum couldn't even finish him. Give both of these guys some damn credit. Yes, Lennox was easily losing on points but did the damage with his great strength and earned a victory. Yes Vitali proved himself by going toe to toe and scoring heavily against a truly great champion. No, it is not a disgrace for Vitali to have lost. Yes, the stoppage was correct in every way. Yes, Lennox had the right not to fight Vitali again. And because of that we can still understand his words when he let's loose brain droppings like "You know he's serious if he trains in Vegas...There are no nightclubs in Vegas." Then we can go "I understood what he said perfectly, but what the hell did he just say?"

I agree except for the point about Lennox not being past prime, he may have got better technically with age but his physical prime was around 92-95. He slowed down after that even if overall he may have been better

Lennox started talking about retirement after Holyfield and only stook around for the big payday against Tyson.

[Mendoza]

Lewis no longer had the enthusiasm to train up to his best standard and he knew it could only go downhill from here.

Perhaps you/we should be gratefull to see a champion retire at the top of his game with his physical and mental health intact.

It is something that we dont see all too often.

Are you sure? It is fact that Lewis tired to make matches with Kirk Johnson and Mike Tyson after he fought Vitali.

To say Lewis wanted to retire is BS. The fact is Vitali worked his way past Johnson, and the WBC told Lewis to fight Vitali or lose his belt!

Lewis, who had a $15,000,000.00 pay day lined up, decided he was lucky the first time, and to retire rather than take a likely KO/TKO loss.

That is the story.

[McGrain]

Lewis, who had a $15,000,000.00 pay day lined up, decided he was lucky the first time, and to retire rather than take a likely KO/TKO loss.

That is the story.

That is pure opinion. To represent it as fact is dishonest. Given that they fought a year previously and Klitschko lost, especially.

[PowerPuncher]

Are you sure? It is fact that Lewis tired to make matches with Kirk Johnson and Mike Tyson after he fought Vitali.

To say Lewis wanted to retire is BS. The fact is Vitali worked his way past Johnson, and the WBC told Lewis to fight Vitali or lose his belt!

Lewis, who had a $15,000,000.00 pay day lined up, decided he was lucky the first time, and to retire rather than take a likely KO/TKO loss.

That is the story.

He wanted easy fights, that much was obvious, taking hard fights past prime when you have your mother/wife worrying about you and you have 50million in the bank isnt appealing

[Boxed Ears]

I agree except for the point about Lennox not being past prime, he may have got better technically with age but his physical prime was around 92-95. He slowed down after that even if overall he may have been better

Lennox started talking about retirement after Holyfield and only stook around for the big payday against Tyson.

I can go along with his physical prime being earlier but that he didn't technically mature till later. It's a good point. I wouldn't argue it.

[sauhund II]

LOL, this post brings out all the Lemmie apologists.............feeding off washed up Holyfield?Tyson as "career defining " fights and when he meetsa guy who is not washed up, Grant/Rahman chinny, matches him for size and strengh he gets away with a unsatisfying win and pulls tail when it comes to a rematch. But he would have gladly drag Tyson to court a second time to milk the shell of a shell some more........

All you Lemmie pubic hair floosers would be crying wolf til the 23 rd century if the shoe would have been on the other foot and VK would have ran away from a rematch with MEGA money involved.

Anyway, I rather loose by cut while up on the scorecards instead of getting iced not once but twice by ONE shot from yourneyman. The only heavyweight in history btw.

[sauhund II]

He wanted easy fights, that much was obvious, taking hard fights past prime when you have your mother/wife worrying about you and you have 50million in the bank isnt appealing
Are you his accountant or do you work for Team Lewis ? If not , cut the BS with 50 mil in the bank.............he ain't got that kind of dough, not even close. Fact. The only way you make mega $$$ Jordan /Woods/Schumacher style is big time endorsements and we all know that he "definitely" is a zero in that department.

Hell, he never could draw flies when he was active and needed other methusalem has beens to sell the fight.

[JohnThomas1]

Lewis, who had a $15,000,000.00 pay day lined up, decided he was lucky the first time, and to retire rather than take a likely KO/TKO loss.

That is the story.

Lewis told you this, or do you read minds?

[Unforgiven]

I hate it when people criticize Lennox Lewis for retiring in 2004.
For fuck's sake, he was talking about retiring from 2000 onwards, and was only hanging around to fight Mike Tyson.
He should be commended for walking away from the massive purse offers to re-match Vitali Klitschko.

[bodhi]

Lewis needed the re-match vs. McCall and Rhaman didn't he? Those two had the courage to offer a re-match. Lewis did not take the re-match. In fact he was angling for a shot vs. Kirk Johnson in Canada, which crumbled when Vitali Ko'd Johnson in two, then winked into the camera and told Lewis he knows he saw this fight.

"He harpooned the whale!" :lol:

[bodhi]

Mendoza, let it go. You seem to be quite bitter about that. We all know you are a big Vitali fan. He fought a great fight against Lewis but got stopped fairly. That was 6 years ago. You can´t change it. It´s ovah!

[PowerPuncher]

Are you his accountant or do you work for Team Lewis ? If not , cut the BS with 50 mil in the bank.............he ain't got that kind of dough, not even close. Fact. The only way you make mega $$$ Jordan /Woods/Schumacher style is big time endorsements and we all know that he "definitely" is a zero in that department.

Hell, he never could draw flies when he was active and needed other methusalem has beens to sell the fight.

OOPs make that 100million

Up until 1997, his purses for 34 fights had earned him £25m, and a year later he signed a seven-fight deal with HBO, the American cable network, which netted him a further £40m. Winning the world title from Holyfield in their 1999 rematch brought in another £18.5m and his earnings between 2001 and 2002 when he defeated Mike Tyson were over £30m.
Lewis’s earning power was reduced in 2003 to around £9m but, taking account of his career prize-money and limited endorsements, Lewis is easily worth £100m, allowing for tax and any investment income. Any dilemma for Lewis could only arise out of the mediocrity of talent which makes a mockery of what was once the richest prize in sport.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[essexboy]

I could make a thread about this tomorrow and it would still get mutiple pages.

[Fighting Weight]

Lewis, who had a $15,000,000.00 pay day lined up, decided he was lucky the first time, and to retire rather than take a likely KO/TKO loss.

That is the story.

On page 3 you said it was $18,000,000.00....do you even believe this crap yourself? :lol:

Not that it matters, in 100 years time people will look at the career of Lewis and it'll still say TKO6 V.Klitschko. People will also look at the career of Klitschko and say "well he can't have been that good, he lost to old man Lewis in his last fight" :good:deal

[Vanboxingfan]

In terms of entertainment that was probably one of the best heavyweight fights in years, and undoubtedly made a lot of lewis distractors pause and think about who good he actually was. Vitali was no push over and after the second round it basically became a fight, rather than a boxing match, one that everyone knew wasn't going to go the distance. But at mentioned, it wasn't just the cut above the eye, that caused Vitali trouble, his mouth was split open and he was swallowing a lot of blood. They even mentioned that in the broadcast how that can affect someone. But the safety of the fighters is always the most consideration, and so those Vitali fans who wished their fighter would have continued and risk lossing his sight confuses the hell out of me. Fact is Lewis won the 6th rounds on all the cards, and wasn't going to just sit on a stool in round 7 and say I've had enough, he'd have fought until he dropped, as would have Vitali.

[lefthook31]

Lewis gets a pass for everything he does dont you know? He beat Bowe in the olympic so he would have destroyed him in the pros, he was ducked by Bowe, Tyson and Holyfield, but he didnt duck Byrd or Ruiz, because he was so much better than them those were useless defenses. It didnt matter he was knocked out by Mcall and Rahman because he avenged both defeats. He didnt need to rematch Vitali because he was old and needed to retire. :lol::patsch

[PowerPuncher]

Lewis gets a pass for everything he does dont you know? He beat Bowe in the olympic so he would have destroyed him in the pros, he was ducked by Bowe, Tyson and Holyfield, but he didnt duck Byrd or Ruiz, because he was so much better than them those were useless defenses. It didnt matter he was knocked out by Mcall and Rahman because he avenged both defeats. He didnt need to rematch Vitali because he was old and needed to retire. :lol::patsch

He whooped the shit out of all 3, now stop crying :|

[Vysotsky]

LOL, this post brings out all the Lemmie apologists.............feeding off washed up Holyfield?Tyson as "career defining " fights and when he meetsa guy who is not washed up, Grant/Rahman chinny, matches him for size and strengh he gets away with a unsatisfying win and pulls tail when it comes to a rematch. But he would have gladly drag Tyson to court a second time to milk the shell of a shell some more........

All you Lemmie pubic hair floosers would be crying wolf til the 23 rd century if the shoe would have been on the other foot and VK would have ran away from a rematch with MEGA money involved.

Anyway, I rather loose by cut while up on the scorecards instead of getting iced not once but twice by ONE shot from yourneyman. The only heavyweight in history btw.

Rahman is the perfect example. After Vitali retired, needed multiple surgeries for his knees and back, people still constantly talked about how he 'ducked' Rahman cuz he knew Rock would destroy him.

Lennox was 37 when they fought, not 38 as every keeps saying, and nobody was talking about him being too old when he fought Tyson.

My problem with the Lennox rematch thing is as mentioned, his constant shit talk once he retired, he still does it to this day. He always crticizes Vitali, he's picked every fighter since to beat Vitali before the fight(Johnson,Sanders,Peter,Gomez, etc) and when talking about their match it's always 'had it continued, i would of.... i was just getting started' etc.

The fact that he tries to talk Vitali down, lives vicariously through every opponent Vitali's faced since then hoping they'll beat him makes me lose alot of respect for him and also makes me believe that he knows he wouldn't have won a rematch and that's why he retired.

[lefthook31]

Rahman is the perfect example. After Vitali retired, needed multiple surgeries for his knees and back, people still constantly talked about how he 'ducked' Rahman cuz he knew Rock would destroy him.

Lennox was 37 when they fought, not 38 as every keeps saying, and nobody was talking about him being too old when he fought Tyson.

My problem with the Lennox rematch thing is as mentioned, his constant shit talk once he retired, he still does it to this day. He always crticizes Vitali, he's picked every fighter since to beat Vitali before the fight(Johnson,Sanders,Peter,Gomez, etc) and when talking about their match it's always 'had it continued, i would of.... i was just getting started' etc.

The fact that he tries to talk Vitali down, lives vicariously through every opponent Vitali's faced since then hoping they'll beat him makes me lose alot of respect for him and also makes me believe that he knows he wouldn't have won a rematch and that's why he retired.
But Lewis is correct when he says that. The thing is all this speculation and BS about how great Vitali was that night is based on a 6 round fight, and a fight that Lewis was clearly starting to come on strong in and Vitali was fading even before the cuts, so for me that was enough to come to the conclusion that Vitali didnt do shit other than start pretty good against Lewis (for the reason I mentioned in a prior post, Lewis having to fight uncharacteristically, etc), so in my mind it was fine for Lewis to call that a win and retire. Klitschko fans should be happy, because people make more of a stink about that than actually putting the fight in a realistic perspective even if Vitali did win.
And by the way I doubt Lewis is vicariously living through all Vitalis garbage opponents.

[Mendoza]

On page 3 you said it was $18,000,000.00....do you even believe this crap yourself? :lol:


Oh, well allow me to show you some sources :) I have seen 15 and 18 million.

How does 25 MILLION Sound :)

" King has offered 25 million Pounds (1,575 million Baht) to Lewis, 43, for a rematch with Klitschko, said British newspaper The Sun. "

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Owned on this topic as usual:deal

[Mendoza]

Rahman is the perfect example. After Vitali retired, needed multiple surgeries for his knees and back, people still constantly talked about how he 'ducked' Rahman cuz he knew Rock would destroy him.

Lennox was 37 when they fought, not 38 as every keeps saying, and nobody was talking about him being too old when he fought Tyson.

My problem with the Lennox rematch thing is as mentioned, his constant shit talk once he retired, he still does it to this day. He always crticizes Vitali, he's picked every fighter since to beat Vitali before the fight(Johnson,Sanders,Peter,Gomez, etc) and when talking about their match it's always 'had it continued, i would of.... i was just getting started' etc.

The fact that he tries to talk Vitali down, lives vicariously through every opponent Vitali's faced since then hoping they'll beat him makes me lose alot of respect for him and also makes me believe that he knows he wouldn't have won a rematch and that's why he retired.

Exactly right. I still respect Lewis a lot as a fighter though. top 4 ATG in my book.

[MRBILL]

This is beginning to beat-off.............. Lewis won fair and square............. BUT! V.K. is my man in 2009.....

MR.BILL

[Fighting Weight]

Oh, well allow me to show you some sources :) I have seen 15 and 18 million.

How does 25 MILLION Sound :)

" King has offered 25 million Pounds (1,575 million Baht) to Lewis, 43, for a rematch with Klitschko, said British newspaper The Sun. "

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Owned on this topic as usual:deal

:nut:nut:nut How the hell is that 'owned', a quote from a Thai paper that is quoting a British tabloid - the WORST British tabloid at that :patsch

Even if the report is true, do you really think Don King would offer Lewis £25,000,000 (what's that, about $40,000,000?) if he actually thought Lewis would take it?

Also, I wonder how much he'd be offering VITLAY....about £5,000,000 would be my guess, King knows who the real champion was.

[sauhund II]

OOPs make that 100million

Up until 1997, his purses for 34 fights had earned him £25m, and a year later he signed a seven-fight deal with HBO, the American cable network, which netted him a further £40m. Winning the world title from Holyfield in their 1999 rematch brought in another £18.5m and his earnings between 2001 and 2002 when he defeated Mike Tyson were over £30m.
Lewis’s earning power was reduced in 2003 to around £9m but, taking account of his career prize-money and limited endorsements, Lewis is easily worth £100m, allowing for tax and any investment income. Any dilemma for Lewis could only arise out of the mediocrity of talent which makes a mockery of what was once the richest prize in sport.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
No wonder you have ten thousand posts....., no likey reality........you are clueless about finances, lol, X amount paid for a fight ain't take home noob, if you would have any comprehension what is deducted even before taxes you would not need to google some tabloid BS.

Now back to your regular scheduled program of idolizing your father figure Lemmie.

[DDA365]

Oh, well allow me to show you some sources :) I have seen 15 and 18 million.

How does 25 MILLION Sound :)

" King has offered 25 million Pounds (1,575 million Baht) to Lewis, 43, for a rematch with Klitschko, said British newspaper The Sun. "

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Owned on this topic as usual:deal
:lol: I take it you noticed this was 6 years after he retired and are just trying to wind people up but still it made me laugh

[Mendoza]

:nut:nut:nut How the hell is that 'owned', a quote from a Thai paper that is quoting a British tabloid - the WORST British tabloid at that :patsch

Even if the report is true, do you really think Don King would offer Lewis £25,000,000 (what's that, about $40,000,000?) if he actually thought Lewis would take it?

Also, I wonder how much he'd be offering VITLAY....about £5,000,000 would be my guess, King knows who the real champion was.


Lewis hints at return for second shot at KlitschkoBy Paul Hayward in Los Angeles
April 27, 2004

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Lennox Lewis is on his way out of retirement for a rematch with Vitali Klitschko. This was the inescapable conclusion when Lewis strode out of the arena and straight to the new champion's dressing room after Klitschko had battered Corrie Sanders to claim the World Boxing Council title in Los Angeles on Saturday. Before he called on the new heavyweight king, Lewis conceded: "The temptation is always there."

Klitschko, the first universally recognised white champion since Ingemar Johansson 45 years ago, said: "I will talk to Lennox Lewis very shortly about the possibility of us fighting again. There were so many questions in my mind when Lennox retired. I've thought about it a lot. I was upset with his decision and many other people were, too. I just hope Lennox makes a comeback."

Like Klitschko's in the Lewis fight here 10 months ago, Sanders's face was a riot of lacerations and bloody eruptions. His courage was depicted in splashes and squirts of red.


In the moment of release, he fell into the compassionate embrace of the referee, Jon Schorle, who sensibly stopped the onslaught two minutes and 46 seconds into the eighth round of a crude but stormy and gripping bout.
@media print {.nopr {display:none}} advertisement advertisement

Lewis watched the conflagration, thinking a $US20 million ($27.3m) payday against a flawed successor was a good incentive to get back in the gym.
Realists will wonder whether Lewis's retirement was choreographed to add greater value to the reprise. Lewis-Klitschko II is worth far more financially now the younger man is in possession of the belt. Lewis would be bidding to become a four-time leader of the heavyweight pack. Having recovered the WBC's waistband from Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman (both of whom knocked him out), Lewis can add melodrama to a comeback by claiming that he wants to surpass Muhammad Ali in the number of times he has reclaimed his belt.

Lewis-Klitschko is unfinished business: anathema to boxing promoters and spectators. The dramatic tension arises from the fact Klitschko was ahead on all three judges' cards when gashes round his left eye compelled the referee to stop the first fight.

The economics are simple. In the first WBC title fight post-Lewis's retirement, Klitschko and Sanders fought for less than Ali and Joe Frazier at Madison Square Garden more than 30 years ago. These days, nobody wants to watch the legion of obscure big men doing the rounds. The rematch with Lewis starts to look like a financial imperative

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


>>>Don't act stupid fighting weight. The fight was out there for Lewis to take. It was 15+ million for him. Lewis said he fight but in the end, could not man up to a re-match. Many offers were out there in 2004, and 2005.

END.

[PowerPuncher]

Oh, well allow me to show you some sources :) I have seen 15 and 18 million.

How does 25 MILLION Sound :)

" King has offered 25 million Pounds (1,575 million Baht) to Lewis, 43, for a rematch with Klitschko, said British newspaper The Sun. "

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Owned on this topic as usual:deal

To be fair a Star Treck movie would be a more reliable source than the Sun tabloid, and anyone quoting The Sun deserves to be laughed off the forum

[PowerPuncher]

No wonder you have ten thousand posts....., no likey reality........you are clueless about finances, lol, X amount paid for a fight ain't take home noob, if you would have any comprehension what is deducted even before taxes you would not need to google some tabloid BS.

Now back to your regular scheduled program of idolizing your father figure Lemmie.

Umm LEnnox is said to be worth at least £100million, learn to read, his purse for the Tyson fight is said to be worth around 45million alone

[DDA365]

To be fair a Star Treck movie would be a more reliable source than the Sun tabloid, and anyone quoting The Sun deserves to be laughed off the forum
Um...not to mention Lewis was 43. I think he is taking the piss.

[sitiyzal]

Incredible how such a non issue can create the longest, dumbest threads years after the event.

[Fighting Weight]

>>>Don't act stupid fighting weight. The fight was out there for Lewis to take. It was 15+ million for him. Lewis said he fight but in the end, could not man up to a re-match. Many offers were out there in 2004, and 2005.

END.

I'm not acting stupid....when did it become a rule that a champion had to beat a contender twice to prove he was better? Lewis TKO6, as I said this will always be the result and no matter how much bullshit spin you try to put on a mythical rematch, Lennox Lewis will ALWAYS be remembered as VITLAY Klitschkos superior. Hurts eh? Shame.

I suggest you don't talk about Lewis 'manning up' either, because that cowardly faggot that you adore so much quit rather than face Chris Byrds monstrous power :lol: for a few more rounds to secure a win. A Klitschko fan, talking about Lewis 'manning up', words fail me :patsch

Incidentally I notice VITLAY even now still hasn't 'manned up' to a Byrd rematch, why is that? I suspect it's all Byrds fault, right? :nut

[Russell]

Incredible how such a non issue can create the longest, dumbest threads years after the event.

Amazing isn't it?

[lefthook31]

It does get annoying to hear Klitschko fans just take this fight completely out of reality. Its almost like it was a win for Klitschko. To me Lewis was the better man, but Klitschko did something not many fighters were able to do against Lewis for some time and that was to be competitive in a boxing match.
Klitschko fought well and showed heart, something that was a question in the past. Take the loss and move on. Its just unfortunate there is no real challenges out there for Vitali so his entire legacy will be hung on a loss to Lewis who was old to begin with, so this wont be the last of these threads.

[Mendoza]

I'm not acting stupid..

Incidentally I notice VITLAY even now still hasn't 'manned up' to a Byrd rematch, why is that? I suspect it's all Byrds fault, right? :nut

Stop lying. Vitaly tried to get Byrd in a re-match, but Byrd who was promoted by Don King would not let that happen. Instead King matches guys like Golota, TOS, Byrd, and Ruiz vs. each other.

Speaking of Lewis, he not only dropped a belt to Byrd, he also dropped one to Ruiz who was calling Lewis a girl.

Re-matches for Lewis( who was KO by one punch twice ) were essential for his career. Could you imagine how Lewis career would look if McCall and Rhaman ducked him in the re-match, just like Lewis ducked Vitali in the re-match? Ponder that one.

[JohnThomas1]

Could you imagine how Lewis career would look if McCall and Rhaman ducked him in the re-match, just like Lewis ducked Vitali in the re-match? Ponder that one.

Stop dramatising, Rahman and McCall fought/fight on forever after beating Lewis, Lewis has never ever fought again.

It's not rocket science.

[Fighting Weight]

Stop lying. Vitaly tried to get Byrd in a re-match, but Byrd who was promoted by Don King would not let that happen. Instead King matches guys like Golota, TOS, Byrd, and Ruiz vs. each other.

Speaking of Lewis, he not only dropped a belt to Byrd, he also dropped one to Ruiz who was calling Lewis a girl.

Re-matches for Lewis( who was KO by one punch twice ) were essential for his career. Could you imagine how Lewis career would look if McCall and Rhaman ducked him in the re-match, just like Lewis ducked Vitali in the re-match? Ponder that one.

:lol::lol::lol::patsch

So because Ruiz called Lewis a girl he had to fight him, right? If name-calling is all you have to do then surely James Toney should have been given a shot at both the Klits by now :huh

As I said, I knew the no rematch thing would be all Byrds fault, predictable as ever. Funny how he had no problems stepping in the ring with WALDO again.....

I see you're still having problems with active fighters fighting each other and 38 year olds retiring too, I'll remember all this when VITLAY retires :hi:

[Vanboxingfan]

Lewis hints at return for second shot at KlitschkoBy Paul Hayward in Los Angeles
April 27, 2004

Print this article ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) [Only registered and activated users can see links] Email to a[Only registered and activated users can see links] friend ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Lennox Lewis is on his way out of retirement for a rematch with Vitali Klitschko. This was the inescapable conclusion when Lewis strode out of the arena and straight to the new champion's dressing room after Klitschko had battered Corrie Sanders to claim the World Boxing Council title in Los Angeles on Saturday. Before he called on the new heavyweight king, Lewis conceded: "The temptation is always there."

Klitschko, the first universally recognised white champion since Ingemar Johansson 45 years ago, said: "I will talk to Lennox Lewis very shortly about the possibility of us fighting again. There were so many questions in my mind when Lennox retired. I've thought about it a lot. I was upset with his decision and many other people were, too. I just hope Lennox makes a comeback."

Like Klitschko's in the Lewis fight here 10 months ago, Sanders's face was a riot of lacerations and bloody eruptions. His courage was depicted in splashes and squirts of red.


In the moment of release, he fell into the compassionate embrace of the referee, Jon Schorle, who sensibly stopped the onslaught two minutes and 46 seconds into the eighth round of a crude but stormy and gripping bout.
@media print {.nopr {display:none}} advertisement advertisement

Lewis watched the conflagration, thinking a $US20 million ($27.3m) payday against a flawed successor was a good incentive to get back in the gym.
Realists will wonder whether Lewis's retirement was choreographed to add greater value to the reprise. Lewis-Klitschko II is worth far more financially now the younger man is in possession of the belt. Lewis would be bidding to become a four-time leader of the heavyweight pack. Having recovered the WBC's waistband from Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman (both of whom knocked him out), Lewis can add melodrama to a comeback by claiming that he wants to surpass Muhammad Ali in the number of times he has reclaimed his belt.

Lewis-Klitschko is unfinished business: anathema to boxing promoters and spectators. The dramatic tension arises from the fact Klitschko was ahead on all three judges' cards when gashes round his left eye compelled the referee to stop the first fight.

The economics are simple. In the first WBC title fight post-Lewis's retirement, Klitschko and Sanders fought for less than Ali and Joe Frazier at Madison Square Garden more than 30 years ago. These days, nobody wants to watch the legion of obscure big men doing the rounds. The rematch with Lewis starts to look like a financial imperative

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


>>>Don't act stupid fighting weight. The fight was out there for Lewis to take. It was 15+ million for him. Lewis said he fight but in the end, could not man up to a re-match. Many offers were out there in 2004, and 2005.

END.

I have no doubt that Lewis could have had a re-match if he wanted one. I also think Vitali would have had a good chance of winning the rematch, but that doesn't negate the fact Lewis won the first fight. You seem to think that just because Lewis never rematched Vitali that he somehow lost the first fight, or it somehow diminished his win, neither is true.

[lefthook31]

I have no doubt that Lewis could have had a re-match if he wanted one. I also think Vitali would have had a good chance of winning the rematch, but that doesn't negate the fact Lewis won the first fight. You seem to think that just because Lewis never rematched Vitali that he somehow lost the first fight, or it somehow diminished his win, neither is true.
Funny, but I think your exactly right. I think this is the way alot of people actually perceive the fight.

[Mendoza]

:lol::lol::lol::patsch

So because Ruiz called Lewis a girl he had to fight him, right? If name-calling is all you have to do then surely James Toney should have been given a shot at both the Klits by now :huh

As I said, I knew the no rematch thing would be all Byrds fault, predictable as ever. Funny how he had no problems stepping in the ring with WALDO again.....

I see you're still having problems with active fighters fighting each other and 38 year olds retiring too, I'll remember all this when VITLAY retires :hi:

No Ruiz was a mandatory for Lewis, and far better than a hyped Mike Grant or a fringe contender in Botha. :deal

The insult to Lewis, who was then living with his mother and owned a pet poodle is fighting words on any gym corner. To call the heavyweight champion a girl, and to make fun of his high protective cup in the 2nd Holyfield fight is embarrassing.

I have no problem with fighters retiring. None. I do have a problem with guys who were always in denial as Lewis when the truth was not on his side.

I do have a problem with fighters saying he'd take a re-match multiple times....getting multiple offers for 15+ million dollars... sitting on title, then promptly retiring.

As they say actions speak louder than words, so you have to live with that. :D

PS: You need to brush up on your history if your going to attempt to match wits with me. I'm not one of your target fan of the month thread. Toney was offered a title shot vs. Wlad when Toney had no belt or an offer to fight for one. He refused, because he'd get the stuffing beat out of him, then fought a no-name for less.

[Fighting Weight]

No Ruiz was a mandatory for Lewis, and far better than a hyped Mike Grant or a fringe contender in Botha. :deal

The insult to Lewis, who was then living with his mother and owned a pet poodle is fighting words on any gym corner. To call the heavyweight champion a girl, and to make fun of his high protective cup in the 2nd Holyfield fight is embarrassing.

I have no problem with fighters retiring. None. I do have a problem with guys who were always in denial as Lewis when the truth was not on his side.

I do have a problem with fighters saying he'd take a re-match multiple times....getting multiple offers for 15+ million dollars... sitting on title, then promptly retiring.

As they say actions speak louder than words, so you have to live with that. :D

PS: You need to brush up on your history if your going to attempt to match wits with me. I'm not one of your target fan of the month thread. Toney was offered a title shot vs. Wlad when Toney had no belt or an offer to fight for one. He refused, because he'd get the stuffing beat out of him, then fought a no-name for less.

Yes, actions do speak louder than words - Lewis TKO6, no matter how much garbage you spout :deal

You seem to have missed the point about Toney, I guess I used a bad example seeing as the Klits offer shots to pretty much anyone thats old and has a name :patsch You think Ruiz was more deserving of a title shot than Grant at the time Lewis fought him? Fair enough, I suspect you're the one that needs to brush up your history, same goes for your ridiculous comments about Byrd too. Incidentally as I recall Botha was given a shot because he put up a good show against Tyson...everyone knew it would be an easy defence, a bit like old WALDO taking on the shell of Rahman? Oh and I seem to remember VITLAY making a joke defence against Danny Williams on the strength of him beating shot Tyson too - double standards, surely not?

[Mendoza]

Yes, actions do speak louder than words - Lewis TKO6, no matter how much garbage you spout :deal

You seem to have missed the point about Toney, I guess I used a bad example seeing as the Klits offer shots to pretty much anyone thats old and has a name :patsch You think Ruiz was more deserving of a title shot than Grant at the time Lewis fought him? Fair enough, I suspect you're the one that needs to brush up your history, same goes for your ridiculous comments about Byrd too. Incidentally as I recall Botha was given a shot because he put up a good show against Tyson...everyone knew it would be an easy defence, a bit like old WALDO taking on the shell of Rahman? Oh and I seem to remember VITLAY making a joke defence against Danny Williams on the strength of him beating shot Tyson too - double standards, surely not?

I have no issues at all with a champion taking an easy title defense along the way, but when he drops belts to fight lesser fighters or avoids re-match, then we are talking about something different. Can you concede this point? Yes or no?

I do not see either Klitschko running from anyone. In fact they are both gunning for the last world title belt. Valuev and Haye won't fight them. Neither will Toney. It seems like Povetkin has reservations too. Just like Lewis had resvervations with the re-match once he found out how good Vitlai was.

It seems like a Don King backed Oliver McCall might get a title shot again. Lewis fans might have a tough pill to swallow if Wlad stops McCall, which makes him 2-0 vs Rhaman and McCall, while Lewis mark vs the same men stands at 2-2.

[Fighting Weight]

I have no issues at all with a champion taking an easy title defense along the way, but when he drops belts to fight lesser fighters or avoids re-match, then we are talking about something different. Can you concede this point? Yes or no?

I do not see either Klitschko running from anyone. In fact they are both gunning for the last world title belt. Valuev and Haye won't fight them. Neither will Toney. It seems like Povetkin has reservations too. Just like Lewis had resvervations with the re-match once he found out how good Vitlai was.

It seems like a Don King backed Oliver McCall might get a title shot again. Lewis fans might have a tough pill to swallow if Wlad stops McCall, which makes him 2-0 vs Rhaman and McCall, while Lewis mark vs the same men stands at 2-2.

No I can't concede that point because you're still trying to attack Lewis for not facing Byrd or Ruiz when he chose to drop the IBF or WBA belt or whatever it was so he could face Michael Grant. If Lewis had defended against Byrd or Ruiz and avoided Grant people like you would have been up in arms and he'd have probably lost one of the other belts for doing it so it was a lose-lose situation. Lewis took the tougher, more marketable fight and won in devastating fashion, and there's absolutely no doubt in any reasonable fans mind that he would have beat the llving shit out of Byrd and Ruiz had he fought them. Lewis did not avoid a rematch with VITLAY, he retired, and he was entitled to do that because he WON THE FIGHT :patsch He retired because he struggled against a B level opponent, something that he wasn't used to....Lewis is a sensible man.

Neither Klitschko runs from anyone? What about VITLAYS nemesis, Hasim Rahman? Please feel free to make the usual excuses but the facts are that Rahman retired VITLAY, using the retarded logic that you like to apply :good Can't wait for your "but.....but....VITLAY was injured" response to that one :rofl

Oh and yes, I'm sure all Lewis fans will be really upset if WALDO or VITLAY stops a 50 year old Oliver McCall, what a dent that'll put in Lewis's legacy...it'll be the same sized dent that Tyson put in Ali's legacy when he beat Larry Holmes :nut

[anut]

which "cut"(singular) here are you referring to?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

tko for a good reason...........lennox pounded vitali.....

[Jaime]

Vtali's power is cumulative and Lennox has one punch power, which to me given the shape they were in doesn't bode well for Vitali, he was outgunned. the momentum of the fight was shifting irrespective of the cuts. Vitali just doesn't have the right style to beat Lewis. Lewis would have gone on to win by K.O. Although i do think Lewis could have been more forthcoming with a rematch.

[sauhund II]

No I can't concede that point because you're still trying to attack Lewis for not facing Byrd or Ruiz when he chose to drop the IBF or WBA belt or whatever it was so he could face Michael Grant. If Lewis had defended against Byrd or Ruiz and avoided Grant people like you would have been up in arms and he'd have probably lost one of the other belts for doing it so it was a lose-lose situation. Lewis took the tougher, more marketable fight and won in devastating fashion, and there's absolutely no doubt in any reasonable fans mind that he would have beat the llving shit out of Byrd and Ruiz had he fought them. Lewis did not avoid a rematch with VITLAY, he retired, and he was entitled to do that because he WON THE FIGHT :patsch He retired because he struggled against a B level opponent, something that he wasn't used to....Lewis is a sensible man.

Neither Klitschko runs from anyone? What about VITLAYS nemesis, Hasim Rahman? Please feel free to make the usual excuses but the facts are that Rahman retired VITLAY, using the retarded logic that you like to apply :good Can't wait for your "but.....but....VITLAY was injured" response to that one :rofl

Oh and yes, I'm sure all Lewis fans will be really upset if WALDO or VITLAY stops a 50 year old Oliver McCall, what a dent that'll put in Lewis's legacy...it'll be the same sized dent that Tyson put in Ali's legacy when he beat Larry Holmes :nut
LOL, you got to be employed by Lewis..................net press agent to hold the flag up.

Sonny, your hero got waxed TWICE by C level fighters, so he was DEFINITELY used to struggle with ham and eggers.

[Vanboxingfan]

LOL, you got to be employed by Lewis..................net press agent to hold the flag up.

Sonny, your hero got waxed TWICE by C level fighters, so he was DEFINITELY used to struggle with ham and eggers.


and yet Vitali in the most important fight of his career couldn't do it...hmmm what's that make him? By your logic it would be a D level fighter

[The Mongoose]

No I can't concede that point because you're still trying to attack Lewis for not facing Byrd or Ruiz when he chose to drop the IBF or WBA belt or whatever it was so he could face Michael Grant. If Lewis had defended against Byrd or Ruiz and avoided Grant people like you would have been up in arms and he'd have probably lost one of the other belts for doing it so it was a lose-lose situation. Lewis took the tougher, more marketable fight and won in devastating fashion, and there's absolutely no doubt in any reasonable fans mind that he would have beat the llving shit out of Byrd and Ruiz had he fought them.




Lewis was heavily criticized after the uneventful Holyfield snoozers and took the Grant fight as a showcase fight because he was someone he can look good against. Simple as that. Has nothing to do with him battling corruption and looking for a tougher, more marektable fighter. Nobody cared about Grant but unlike Ruiz, Lewis had a good chance of knocking him out in easy fashion and he delivered. I followed Lewis during his reign and was a fan but this revisionism is getting retarded. I guess people hate Vitali and Wlad so much they must rewrite the books to make the previous Champion into a flawless Superman that did no wrong. Oh, the days of Lewis when we had a true Champion that was just as unfairly abused as the one now. A real Lewis fan can empathise with Wlad and Vitali to a lesser degree.

Now Byrd and Ruiz had as good a chance of beating Lewis if not more of chance than most of Lewis' elite opposition during that timeframe..Grant, the White Buffalo, fat Tua...etc.. Its not even about that, its about earning your shot and say what you will in retrospect, Byrd certainly earned his shot several times over and deserved a go at Lennox and so did the Quiet Man to a lesser degree. Doesn't matter if the odds were 100-1, they were contenders for his title and most writers at the time speculated there was more to it than Byrd and Ruiz being easy unmarketable opponents. Godl knows, Lewis wasn't shy about those.

From SI


Lewis ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) said afterward, in his disturbingly reasonable way, that " Michael Grant ([Only registered and activated users can see links])'s style was appropriate to showcasing my talent."

Until now Lewis ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) has been a difficult and largely unpromotable fighter. In that respect this bout was no different from the rest. It wasn't just Lewis ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), though. Either nobody was taking Grant seriously or everybody had given up on heavyweight boxing altogether, because the event was virtually buzz-free. Not even in New York ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), at the supposed mecca, could these two guys create any prefight commotion. The promoters plugged tirelessly, but nobody could produce a storyline more dramatic than...two really big kids in the same ring, same time

In particular there was that troubling bout last year with Andrew Golota ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), in which Grant's flaws (he holds his hands low, for one thing) were nearly fatal. Knocked down and losing, he showed guts by finally stopping Golota, but...he had been knocked down and had been losing.


From Cyberboxing Zone prior to Ruiz/Holyfield:



Everyone who knows John Ruiz sees him as a man of principle, a genuine nice guy -- outside the boxing ring, of course. Inside the ring, Ruiz is a fierce and driven competitor. The late Jerry Ballard (a former contender who was murdered last year) had unfortunately met Ruiz inside a boxing ring. On September 19, 1998, the relentless Ruiz mercilessly knocked out Ballard in four rounds.
It was that impressive performance that vaulted Ruiz into the number one slot by the WBC. Ruiz has also acquired the number one status for the WBA. Since the designation, Ruiz has been campaigning for a shot at what he wants most, the heavyweight championship held by Lennox Lewis, a man who has refused to face Ruiz.
"Lennox Lewis has a reason for avoiding John," said Ruiz' attorney Anthony Cardinale. "Lewis knows what Johnny can do and has seen what Johnny can do."
Ruiz was at one-time a sparring partner for Lewis while also being promoted by Panos Eliades. To Stone's account, Lewis didn't look too well against Ruiz and would not spar with Ruiz while the press attended Lewis' workouts.
"Since Johnny became the #1 contender, all (Lewis' people) have done is offer us money to step aside," said Cardinale. "They offered us a lot of money without a written guarantee of a title shot. Well we're not interested in the money, we're interested in the championship."
"We fought off their legal challenge that they took against Don King and John Ruiz to avoid fulfilling their contractual obligation to fight the mandatory WBA challenger which is Johnny," said Cardinale. Lewis had signed an agreement that required him to face the mandatory challenger had he defeated Holyfield, which he did this past November. Instead of facing Ruiz, Lewis opted for Michael Grant, an over-hyped opponent that Ruiz had tried to get in the ring with prior to his near disaster with Andrew Golota. It was Grant's performance against Golota that prompted Lewis to select Grant as his first title defense after decisioning Holyfield. Now Ruiz and Holyfield will battle for the vacant WBA title in pursuit of fulfilling their dreams.

[lefthook31]

I always thought Ruiz and Byrd would present a very tough fight for Lewis stylistically, and hated how he just automatically got a pass for avoiding those fights even though he was such a bitch about being ducked himself. The perception that Grant was such a far better challenge because HBO said so, was beyond ridiculous he was garbage.

[Vanboxingfan]

I always thought Ruiz and Byrd would present a very tough fight for Lewis stylistically, and hated how he just automatically got a pass for avoiding those fights even though he was such a bitch about being ducked himself. The perception that Grant was such a far better challenge because HBO said so, was beyond ridiculous he was garbage.

Why who anyone lump these two together and imply they had the same styles, nothing could be further from the truth, their styles were completely different.

I certaintly don't think he was worried about either one of them in terms of winning or lossing, certainly Byrd's performance against the Klitschko's would give you a good indication of who things would have transpired with him, while Ruiz, would either have gotten knocked out or grabbed his way to an extremely boring loss. Hard to imagine the outcome of these fights being any different, as neither had the power to seriously hurt Lewis and he would have certainly walked Byrd down and put him to sleep at some point if they fought.

As for why he didn't fight them, simple. Economics, nothing more to it than that. But in the larger picture, it shows that once you reach the top, most fights are made or not made due to economics, not fear, or some altruistic motive. Because whether or not I believe Lewis would make short work of either of these fighters, they both deserved their shot. But that's the problem with multiple belts, you're always fighting mandatories and that's not always the best option economically for a fighter.

[lefthook31]

Why who anyone lump these two together and imply they had the same styles, nothing could be further from the truth, their styles were completely different.

I certaintly don't think he was worried about either one of them in terms of winning or lossing, certainly Byrd's performance against the Klitschko's would give you a good indication of who things would have transpired with him, while Ruiz, would either have gotten knocked out or grabbed his way to an extremely boring loss. Hard to imagine the outcome of these fights being any different, as neither had the power to seriously hurt Lewis and he would have certainly walked Byrd down and put him to sleep at some point if they fought.

As for why he didn't fight them, simple. Economics, nothing more to it than that. But in the larger picture, it shows that once you reach the top, most fights are made or not made due to economics, not fear, or some altruistic motive.
Youre right they did have two different styles, I never implied they didnt, but both proved to give their opponents fits with their styles, especially slower guys. Grant was simply a deer in headlights, and offered nothing like I expected nor did he go onto anything either like Byrd and Ruiz did.
Funny you give Lewis a pass for not taking the fights for economics, because that was the very same reason Bowe and Tyson didnt fight him.:good

[The Mongoose]

I certaintly don't think he was worried about either one of them in terms of winning or lossing, certainly Byrd's performance against the Klitschko's would give you a good indication of who things would have transpired with him, while Ruiz, would either have gotten knocked out or grabbed his way to an extremely boring loss. Hard to imagine the outcome of these fights being any different, as neither had the power to seriously hurt Lewis and he would have certainly walked Byrd down and put him to sleep at some point if they fought.

As for why he didn't fight them, simple. Economics, nothing more to it than that. But in the larger picture, it shows that once you reach the top, most fights are made or not made due to economics, not fear, or some altruistic motive. Because whether or not I believe Lewis would make short work of either of these fighters, they both deserved their shot. But that's the problem with multiple belts, you're always fighting mandatories and that's not always the best option economically for a fighter.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Wlad and to a much lesser degree Vitali if anything have shown a niche for shutting out frustrating spoilers and technicians. Lewis never faced fighters like Byrd, Ruiz, Donald, or even Sultan,and Gomez..etc so I wouldn't be certain of anything. His avoidance of such fighters for more limited opposition is cause for raising an eyebrow, it certianly did at the time. Its not always the punchers that are ducked.

As the Grant article shown, economics was not really a factor in Lewis' decision to pass on Ruiz. It was a matter of him picking the opponent with the style that suited him better. He even said himself it was a "showcase."

[lefthook31]

I would say Mavrovic was very close in style to Donald and Gomez. Ruiz and Byrd where certainly something he never saw before, and I think Ruiz more than Byrd would have given him some trouble. Ruiz was very quick with a jab and righthand, even Holyfield couldnt catch him, and Holy had faster hands than Lewis. The jab of Lewis wouldnt be as much of a factor as most think, Ruiz was very quick to jab and fall in with a righthand and grapple inside. Lewis WAS excellent at throwing an uppercut, but I still think Ruiz would pose problems.

[PowerPuncher]

I always thought Ruiz and Byrd would present a very tough fight for Lewis stylistically, and hated how he just automatically got a pass for avoiding those fights even though he was such a bitch about being ducked himself. The perception that Grant was such a far better challenge because HBO said so, was beyond ridiculous he was garbage.

Yea I see your point given Golota beat the crap out of both them :nut They were both pure garbage and couldnt punch their way out of a paper bag, Grant could at least bang

[mr. magoo]

Hindsite may support that John Ruiz and Chris Byrd were better career fighters than Michael Grant, but this was hardly the case at the time. Grant was undefeated in some 31 fights, was looking rather menacing at 6'7", 250 lbs, and had just gotten through beating a lengthy string of household contenders and fringe guys. I don't think Ruiz or Byrd deserved to be rated higher AT THE TIME...

[Vanboxingfan]

Hindsite may support that John Ruiz and Chris Byrd were better career fighters than Michael Grant, but this was hardly the case at the time. Grant was undefeated in some 31 fights, was looking rather menacing at 6'7", 250 lbs, and had just gotten through beating a lengthy string of household contenders and fringe guys. I don't think Ruiz or Byrd deserved to be rated higher AT THE TIME...

I would agree with that assessment. I know I felt that the best fight at the time was between Lewis and Grant. Turned out not to be the case, but prior to them getting in the ring I thought it might be.

[lefthook31]

Yea I see your point given Golota beat the crap out of both them :nut They were both pure garbage and couldnt punch their way out of a paper bag, Grant could at least bang
He did? What fights were you watching? What does banging mean anyway if you suck? Grant punched his way right into the garbage can and Byrd and Ruiz actually won titles, in fact I would say Ruiz beat Holyfield up better than your hero Lewis did.

[Mendoza]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Wlad and to a much lesser degree Vitali if anything have shown a niche for shutting out frustrating spoilers and technicians. Lewis never faced fighters like Byrd, Ruiz, Donald, or even Sultan,and Gomez..etc so I wouldn't be certain of anything. His avoidance of such fighters for more limited opposition is cause for raising an eyebrow, it certianly did at the time. Its not always the punchers that are ducked.

As the Grant article shown, economics was not really a factor in Lewis' decision to pass on Ruiz. It was a matter of him picking the opponent with the style that suited him better. He even said himself it was a "showcase."

This is how I see it as well. Lewis himself said the Byrd fight would be ugly.

[lefthook31]

The general boxing fans were sold a bill of goods by HBO on Grant. People who knew what they were looking at knew Grant would get slaughtered by Lewis. Byrd and Ruiz presented two ugly fights for Lewis and he knew it, but from a stylistic standpoint they were interesting as Lewis hadnt faced anything like it.

[Mendoza]

The general boxing fans were sold a bill of goods by HBO on Grant. People who knew what they were looking at knew Grant would get slaughtered by Lewis. Byrd and Ruiz presented two ugly fights for Lewis and he knew it, but from a stylistic standpoint they were interesting as Lewis hadnt faced anything like it.

Amen to this one. Grant was an HBO hype job. Grant was big and had some athletic ability, but he was an in-experienced somewhat light hearted big man who really did not like Boxing.

Lewis did face one style guy in Ossie Ossicao. If memory serves the blown up cruiser gave an on his way up Lewis some fits. Clearly Ruiz and Byrd were several levels above Ossicao at heavyweight.

[mrbassie]

It's laughable how some people clutch at straws to criticise somebody. Lewis didn't fight Ruiz or Byrd because nobody wanted to him in the ring with either of them. In fact very few people have ever wanted to see either of them in the ring at all. It's hardly a knock on a fighters resume if he doesn't fight a couple of also rans who're a notch below his better wins.

Lewis fought Grant because that's the fight hbo wanted.

[punchy]

getting back to topic Lewis was dominating from round three and hit VK with a great uppercut in round six. But what was VK's corner doing blind freddy could see the fight being stopped on cuts why weren't they telling VK to go out there and blast Lewis not to try and survive remember what Marciano did to Charles this what VK needed to do.

[Mendoza]

getting back to topic Lewis was dominating from round three and hit VK with a great uppercut in round six. But what was VK's corner doing blind freddy could see the fight being stopped on cuts why weren't they telling VK to go out there and blast Lewis not to try and survive remember what Marciano did to Charles this what VK needed to do.

Corner's make a difference. Steward was in Lewis corner, and he had a nervous look about him, but he kept telling Lewis he was the champion and he had the experience. It should be noted that Steward was in McCall's corner for the upset of Lewis.

Vitali's cut man did a good job slowing down the blood. There was not huge free flow of blood when the fight was stopped. There was some swelling, but Vitali could see. Lewis may have had more swelling, and also had a cut on his nose too.

As far as advice goes, Sudnek has never impressed me with anything, but perhaps the english interpretor for TV looses something in the translation.

[lefthook31]

It's laughable how some people clutch at straws to criticise somebody. Lewis didn't fight Ruiz or Byrd because nobody wanted to him in the ring with either of them. In fact very few people have ever wanted to see either of them in the ring at all. It's hardly a knock on a fighters resume if he doesn't fight a couple of also rans who're a notch below his better wins.

Lewis fought Grant because that's the fight hbo wanted.

You're right. It was the fight that would sell and what the general public perceived as the most competitive, but Lewis shouldnt be granted a pass for not fighting them after he bitched the entire early part of his career for guys not wanting to fight him for monetary reasons.

[PowerPuncher]

You're right. It was the fight that would sell and what the general public perceived as the most competitive, but Lewis shouldnt be granted a pass for not fighting them after he bitched the entire early part of his career for guys not wanting to fight him for monetary reasons.

Lewis was clearly no1 in the division when Bowe/Holy/Tyson were avoiding him. Ruiz/Byrd were never close to no1 in the division, they were average contenders nothing more.

Ruiz's promoter paid Lewis money not to fight Ruiz, not only that Ruiz had been starched in 1 by Tua, Ruiz clearly was zero threat. Grant was rightfully ranked above Ruiz by everyone at the time. Grant isn't a great HW, he'd beat Ruiz though

Lewis fought an ATG TYson instead of an all time stinker in Byrd, pretty obvious

LEwis fought Vitali who was clearly the better fighter of the 00s than Byrd/Ruiz

To claim Lewis not fighting Byrd/Ruiz is remotely close to him being blatantly ducked by Bowe/Holy/Tyson is the biggest load of bullshit I've heard this week, neither men were any kind of threat, but then again most of your posts about Lewis reek of the same smell

[PowerPuncher]

He did? What fights were you watching? What does banging mean anyway if you suck? Grant punched his way right into the garbage can and Byrd and Ruiz actually won titles, in fact I would say Ruiz beat Holyfield up better than your hero Lewis did.

The Bryd fight was clearly a robbery, nearly everyone said so, the Ruiz fight was closer but most had him winning and he floored Ruiz twice

[lefthook31]

The Bryd fight was clearly a robbery, nearly everyone said so, the Ruiz fight was closer but most had him winning and he floored Ruiz twice
I had Ruiz winning easy, but your right the Byrd fight was tight, certainly not beating the shit out of both like you originally posted.

[lefthook31]

Lewis was clearly no1 in the division when Bowe/Holy/Tyson were avoiding him. Ruiz/Byrd were never close to no1 in the division, they were average contenders nothing more.

Ruiz's promoter paid Lewis money not to fight Ruiz, not only that Ruiz had been starched in 1 by Tua, Ruiz clearly was zero threat. Grant was rightfully ranked above Ruiz by everyone at the time. Grant isn't a great HW, he'd beat Ruiz though

Lewis fought an ATG TYson instead of an all time stinker in Byrd, pretty obvious

LEwis fought Vitali who was clearly the better fighter of the 00s than Byrd/Ruiz

To claim Lewis not fighting Byrd/Ruiz is remotely close to him being blatantly ducked by Bowe/Holy/Tyson is the biggest load of bullshit I've heard this week, neither men were any kind of threat, but then again most of your posts about Lewis reek of the same smell
Ruiz and Byrd were his mandatories thats what Im saying, not comparing the fighters just the fact they were his mandatories. They were also not average contenders by the fact of what they went on to accomplish. They were two of the better contenders of the crappy late 90's really. If anything Grant WAS the average contender and more than proved that.
Lewis was "starched" by Mcall in 2 and Rahman in 5 as a champion. I dont recall Ruiz ever being "starched" again, yet you seem to think that was some big factor to downgrade him as an opponent???
Also your assessment of how it went down is not correct. He dumped his IBF belt to fight Kirk Johnson not Vitali Klitschko.

[mr. magoo]

Frankly, I'm really struggling to see what Chris Byrd and John Ruiz had done circa 2000 to be more deserving of a title shot than Michael Grant. Ruiz had been KO'd within 20 seconds by David tua and had beaten an ancient Tony Tucker. Chris Byrd was stopped early by Ike Ibeabuchi, and was mainly feasting on guys like Ross Purity and Bert Cooper, who was shot by that point. Grant puts together a string of 31 wins with scalps over Golata, Gonzalez and Savarese, yet somehow he was nothing more than a hype job next to those other guys? I'll also point out that I saw his fight with Golata and it was definitely an exciting war of attrition. Can anyone name a single match that Byrd or Ruiz had that had the word " exciting " attached to it?

[lefthook31]

Again its about who his mandatory was and thats the only beef I have with Lewis after he was critical of everyone else, not the general publics perception of who was more qualified. Whatever you think, or thought of Grant at the time is entirely up to you, but Ruiz and Byrd both proved themselves as more competent professional boxers and although providing ugly fights for Lewis, they presented something interesting in a stylistic matchup "in my opinion".
Im confident if Grant faced someone like Ibeabuchi or Tua before fighting Lewis he would have disappeared a lot quicker. Using Golota the perennial loser, cheater or Jorge Gonzalez as a barometer for anything is no comparison to a young Tua or an undefeated Ibeabuchi.
Again Ruiz was a relatively green fighter when he lost to Tua, not an established champion who was also knocked out quickly twice, by lessor opponents.

[Fighting Weight]

Amen to this one. Grant was an HBO hype job. Grant was big and had some athletic ability, but he was an in-experienced somewhat light hearted big man who really did not like Boxing.

Lewis did face one style guy in Ossie Ossicao. If memory serves the blown up cruiser gave an on his way up Lewis some fits. Clearly Ruiz and Byrd were several levels above Ossicao at heavyweight.

That was only Lewis's 10th fight, or thereabouts :patsch

Also take a look at that guys record, he was hardly a bum, he fought a lot of good fighters - and beat some of them. That fight still has absolutely no bearing on what Lewis would have done to Byrd or Ruiz 10 years later though :nut:nut:nut

[Fighting Weight]

Corner's make a difference. Steward was in Lewis corner, and he had a nervous look about him, but he kept telling Lewis he was the champion and he had the experience. It should be noted that Steward was in McCall's corner for the upset of Lewis.

Vitali's cut man did a good job slowing down the blood. There was not huge free flow of blood when the fight was stopped. There was some swelling, but Vitali could see. Lewis may have had more swelling, and also had a cut on his nose too.

As far as advice goes, Sudnek has never impressed me with anything, but perhaps the english interpretor for TV looses something in the translation.

Are you going for another Klitschko fan quote of the week or something :rofl:rofl:rofl

[punchy]

Frankly, I'm really struggling to see what Chris Byrd and John Ruiz had done circa 2000 to be more deserving of a title shot than Michael Grant. Ruiz had been KO'd within 20 seconds by David tua and had beaten an ancient Tony Tucker. Chris Byrd was stopped early by Ike Ibeabuchi, and was mainly feasting on guys like Ross Purity and Bert Cooper, who was shot by that point. Grant puts together a string of 31 wins with scalps over Golata, Gonzalez and Savarese, yet somehow he was nothing more than a hype job next to those other guys? I'll also point out that I saw his fight with Golata and it was definitely an exciting war of attrition. Can anyone name a single match that Byrd or Ruiz had that had the word " exciting " attached to it?

Both had an exciting fight Ruiz/Tua and Byrd/Ibeabuchi, does anyone know when Ike gets out of jail a complete nutter who can really punch could liven things up a bit.

[ThePlugInBabies]

No wonder you have ten thousand posts....., no likey reality........you are clueless about finances, lol, X amount paid for a fight ain't take home noob, if you would have any comprehension what is deducted even before taxes you would not need to google some tabloid BS.

Now back to your regular scheduled program of idolizing your father figure Lemmie.

so that makes powerpuncher and vitali brothers, correct?

[lefthook31]

I know this sounds a bit ridiculous, but if I had to choose an opponent for Lewis out of Byrd, Grant and Ruiz, I would have chosen Ruiz. Coming off the Holyfield fights, the guy adapted to this ugly safety first fighting style that gave guys fits. He befuddled Kirk Johnson, Evander Holyfield and later Rahman, with it, so I was really interested to see how Lewis who wasnt a quick guy himself, would matchup against him. Lewis had such a long list of the same type of opponents stylewise, big strong slow imobile opponents, that I wanted to see him in different.
Ruiz, as ugly as his style was would have made Lewis approach the fight completely different than he had been used to. He couldnt go in banging with a big righthand, he would have to setup landable combinations as Ruiz came forward, something that gave even quicker fighters a bit of trouble. Ugly but interesting from a style standpoint. Probably an uppercut which Lewis had a good one of, would end it late.

[The Mongoose]

Frankly, I'm really struggling to see what Chris Byrd and John Ruiz had done circa 2000 to be more deserving of a title shot than Michael Grant. Ruiz had been KO'd within 20 seconds by David tua and had beaten an ancient Tony Tucker. Chris Byrd was stopped early by Ike Ibeabuchi, and was mainly feasting on guys like Ross Purity and Bert Cooper, who was shot by that point.

Byrd became Lewis' mandatory after defeating the still well regarded Tua in 2001 after Lewis had just defended his belt against him the previous winter. I might add it was a lighter fitter Tua as well.

[McGrain]

I know this sounds a bit ridiculous, but if I had to choose an opponent for Lewis out of Byrd, Grant and Ruiz, I would have chosen Ruiz. Coming off the Holyfield fights, the guy adapted to this ugly safety first fighting style that gave guys fits. He befuddled Kirk Johnson, Evander Holyfield and later Rahman, with it, so I was really interested to see how Lewis who wasnt a quick guy himself, would matchup against him. Lewis had such a long list of the same type of opponents stylewise, big strong slow imobile opponents, that I wanted to see him in different.
Ruiz, as ugly as his style was would have made Lewis approach the fight completely different than he had been used to. He couldnt go in banging with a big righthand, he would have to setup landable combinations as Ruiz came forward, something that gave even quicker fighters a bit of trouble. Ugly but interesting from a style standpoint. Probably an uppercut which Lewis had a good one of, would end it late.


Good post, I agree with most of that. I think it would have been a very interesting fight.

[mr. magoo]

Byrd became Lewis' mandatory after defeating the still well regarded Tua in 2001 after Lewis had just defended his belt against him the previous winter. I might add it was a lighter fitter Tua as well.


Okay, but Byrd defeated Tua AFTER Lewis's destruction of Grant. I was merely addressing the fact that some felt that Lewis should have faced Byrd in place of Grant.